No player in NBA history has EVER averaged 30 points 20 rebounds for a season..

[CavaliersFTW]

..except for Wilt Chamberlain

..who did it 9 times

..and averaged OVER those numbers for his entire career.

:biggums:

[rlsmooth775]

He was almost as good as lebron james

[navy]

How was his free throw shooting in the clutch though?

[Smook A.]

That's why he's one of the best to ever do it

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Oh look, another Kobe thread from Kenneth.

Or something like that.

[L.Kizzle]

I think Baylor and Bellamy was the closest. Both with 30+ and 19.

[LAZERUSS]

I think Baylor and Bellamy was the closest. Both with 30+ and 19.

Bellamy was at 31.6 ppg and 19.0 rpg, in a season in which Chamberlain averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg. Baylor was at 34.8 ppg and 19.8 rpg, in a season in which Chamberlain was at 44.8 ppg and 24.3 rpg.

BTW, in Bellamy's 61-62, he and Wilt went H2H 10 times, and Bellamy actually upped his scoring and rebounding numbers against Wilt, to 34.7 ppg (BTW, he also averaged 33.2 ppg against Russell), and 21.1 rpg. Unfortunately for Bellamy, Chamberlain outscored Walter in nine of those 10 H2H's, and outrebounded Bellamy in eight of the known nine games...all while averaging 52.7 ppg and 28.1 rpg (and on a .503 FG% in a league that shot .426.)

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain is the ONLY player to lead the league in scoring AND rebounding, at the same time...which he accomplished FIVE times. He obviously is also the only player to lead the league in scoring, rebounding, AND FG% at the same time, which he did THREE times. Oh, and BTW, he is also the only player to lead the league in rebounding, FG%, and assists in the same season, as well.

[oarabbus]

..except for Wilt Chamberlain

..who did it 9 times

..and averaged OVER those numbers for his entire career.

:biggums:

:biggums:

[alexd]

..except for Wilt Chamberlain

..who did it 9 times

..and averaged OVER those numbers for his entire career.

:biggums:
Bring prime shaq to a local gym and watch him average 85-59-15-22

[pauk]

Oscar with his 30-10-10 average in 5 seasons, Elgin Baylor's stuff... Russell's rebounds.... and so on... All the unbreakable/unreachable productions happened back then for a reason, it naturally happened for the stars due to how the game was played back then causing all-time high poss. per game which was ever decreasing decade for decade... and so did the productions....

That... or you can sit there and believe the game has since then kept losing aptitude & magnitude of talent/skill and advanced remedies & conditioning and that Wilt, Oscar, Elgin, Russell would get the same points, rebounds, assists etc. in the modern era....

[NZStreetBaller]

wilt was HUUUUUGGEEE!!! and extremely powerful. he'd push around and reach higher then anybody in this league today. i dont think he'd do well in the way ball is played today. but as far as physical dominance hed still kick arse.

This is what makes bill russell so damn good.

[swagga]

..except for Wilt Chamberlain

..who did it 9 times

..and averaged OVER those numbers for his entire career.

:biggums:

with those numbers he SURELY won alot of rings?

[HylianNightmare]

Bellamy was at 31.6 ppg and 19.0 rpg, in a season in which Chamberlain averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg. Baylor was at 34.8 ppg and 19.8 rpg, in a season in which Chamberlain was at 44.8 ppg and 24.3 rpg.

BTW, in Bellamy's 61-62, he and Wilt went H2H 10 times, and Bellamy actually upped his scoring and rebounding numbers against Wilt, to 34.7 ppg (BTW, he also averaged 33.2 ppg against Russell), and 21.1 rpg. Unfortunately for Bellamy, Chamberlain outscored Walter in nine of those 10 H2H's, and outrebounded Bellamy in eight of the known nine games...all while averaging 52.7 ppg and 28.1 rpg (and on a .503 FG% in a league that shot .426.)
That counts

[Ass Dan]

He sounds good, can the Cavs get him?

[KobesFinger]

Rodman in the 60s - 10PPG and ∞RPG

[ArbitraryWater]

Oscar with his 30-10-10 average in 5 seasons, Elgin Baylor's stuff... Russell's rebounds.... and so on... All the unbreakable/unreachable productions happened back then for a reason, it naturally happened for the stars due to how the game was played back then causing all-time high poss. per game which was ever decreasing decade for decade... and so did the productions....

That... or you can sit there and believe the game has since then kept losing aptitude & magnitude of talent/skill and advanced remedies & conditioning and that Wilt, Oscar, Elgin, Russell would get the same points, rebounds, assists etc. in the modern era....

quoted for emphasis

[ralph_i_el]

against the pathetic weak girly men of today's NBA, I think rookie Wilt would average 50/30/2 (2 mountain lions killed per game). I watched some crazy dude's scouting video and now I know the truth

[LAZERUSS]

Oscar with his 30-10-10 average in 5 seasons, Elgin Baylor's stuff... Russell's rebounds.... and so on... All the unbreakable/unreachable productions happened back then for a reason, it naturally happened for the stars due to how the game was played back then causing all-time high poss. per game which was ever decreasing decade for decade... and so did the productions....

That... or you can sit there and believe the game has since then kept losing aptitude & magnitude of talent/skill and advanced remedies & conditioning and that Wilt, Oscar, Elgin, Russell would get the same points, rebounds, assists etc. in the modern era....

The "bashers" get caught up in the sheer numbers. But they completely ignore the fact that it was ONLY WILT who was putting up staggering numbers. It was ONLY Wilt running away with scoring titles, rebounding titles, and FG% titles.

Chamberlain was winning scoring titles by nearly 20 ppg; rebounding titles by nearly 5 rpg; and winning FG% titles by margins of 16%.

How come?

Take a look at this...




Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplished that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)



How come it was ONLY Wilt that would be the ONLY center to ever lead the league in assists?

Elmore Smith holds the "official" blocked shot record for a single game, of 17, set in 1974. Well guess what,...on Christmas Day in 1968, in a nationally televised game, and in which SI RECORDED every blocked shot...Wilt blocked 23 shots. And there are articles crediting Chamberlain with SEVERAL games in the 30's.

Chamberlain holds the record for most consecutive FGs Made...at 35 straight. He also has the THREE highest "perfect" games from the field, at 15-15, 16-16, and 18-18 (and made 18 straight shots in a game in which he went 18-19.)

Chamberlain has the ONLY 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 asisists), and he narrowly missed another with 19 assists. And a newspaper article from his last game in his '62 season had him with 33 points, 33 rebounds, and... 20 blocked shots.

Chamberlain played in 29 post-season series, and was the leading rebounder in 28 of them (and he outrebounded his opposing centers, most all whom are in the HOF, in ALL of them.) He outrebounded RUSSELL in one game by a 55-19 margin. A 36 year old Wilt, in his LAST post-season (and playing 47 mpg in those 17 games) averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg.

Kareem came into the league in 1969, played four years in the Wilt era, and then played another 16 seasons. His high scoring game... 55 points. Just the year before he arrived, in the 68-69 season, a Wilt who had no interest in scoring, hung TWO 60+ point games (one of them on a record FG% for a 60 point game, of 29-35 shooting.)

And speaking of Kareem...a prime Kareem faced several of the same centers that a prime Chamberlain battled a few years earlier. Players like Imhoff, Dierking, Reed, Bellamy, and Thurmond...and a prime Chamberlain was FAR more dominant against those same centers. Once again, in the season before Kareem arrived, Chamberlain hung a 60 point game on Dierking, and that 66 point game on Jim Fox. KAJ faced both multiple times, and his high game against each... 41 points.

And yet, a 38-40 year old KAJ was routinely shelling a 22-24 year old Hakeem. And it wasn't just the several 40+ point games, either, but the fact that he was shooting well over 60% in the those three seasons. My god, a 40 year old Kareem, in four H2H's with a 24 year old Hakeem, outshot him by a margin of .582 to .403.

And if Hakeem would go on to be the among the best centers of the 90's, what does that tell you about a PEAK Kareem? And if a PEAK Kareem would have been a force in the 90's...then what does that tell you about a PEAK Chamberlain, who was, quite simply, the most dominant player the game has ever seen.

[dankok8]

Chamberlain is the ONLY player to lead the league in scoring AND rebounding, at the same time...which he accomplished FIVE times. He obviously is also the only player to lead the league in scoring, rebounding, AND FG% at the same time, which he did THREE times. Oh, and BTW, he is also the only player to lead the league in rebounding, FG%, and assists in the same season, as well.

Bob Pettit led the league in scoring and rebounding in the 1955-1956 season. Spencer Haywood did in the lesser ABA in 1969-1970 as well.

Wilt has never done it in the playoffs while Kareem and Shaq have.

[LAZERUSS]

Bob Pettit led the league in scoring and rebounding in the 1955-1956 season. Spencer Haywood did in the lesser ABA in 1969-1970 as well.

Wilt has never done it in the playoffs while Kareem and Shaq have.

Well, kind of. Pettit did NOT lead the league in RPG though (Stokes did.)

Of course, Chamberlain did not lead the league in APG in '68, either (Oscar did), but Wilt has the highest apg season by a center, and it was by nearly THREE apg over the next best mark (other than his own 7.8 mark in '67.)

[Pointguard]

Chamberlain is the ONLY player to lead the league in scoring AND rebounding, at the same time...which he accomplished FIVE times. He obviously is also the only player to lead the league in scoring, rebounding, AND FG% at the same time, which he did THREE times. Oh, and BTW, he is also the only player to lead the league in rebounding, FG%, and assists in the same season, as well.
What's wild is that you can more than likely add blocks to most of those seasons as well.

FG% and assist is the wildest combo probably in the sport. Or it might be rebounding and assist? No might be blocks and assist? Much less the four together.

[Pointguard]

The "bashers" get caught up in the sheer numbers. But they completely ignore the fact that it was ONLY WILT who was putting up staggering numbers. It was ONLY Wilt running away with scoring titles, rebounding titles, and FG% titles.

Chamberlain was winning scoring titles by nearly 20 ppg; rebounding titles by nearly 5 rpg; and winning FG% titles by margins of 16%.

Elmore Smith holds the "official" blocked shot record for a single game, of 17, set in 1974. Well guess what,...on Christmas Day in 1968, in a nationally televised game, and in which SI RECORDED every blocked shot...Wilt blocked 23 shots.

Chamberlain holds the record for most consecutive FGs Made...at 35 straight. He also has the THREE highest "perfect" games from the field, at 15-15, 16-16, and 18-18 (and made 18 straight shots in a game in which he went 18-19.)

Chamberlain has the ONLY 20-20-20 game in NBA history (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 asisists), and he narrowly missed another with 19 assists. And a newspaper article from his last game in his '62 season had him with 33 points, 33 rebounds, and... 20 blocked shots.

These stats are stats of excellence. Not things that Wilt could have set out to do just to impress. He had to be super impressive himself before pulling them off. And his blocks were off the record but you read about his crazy blocking feat incidently (as he knew they weren't recorded).

The 33 rebounds, 33 points, 20 blocks are all effort/intent activities on the court that only a very active skilled player can pull off.



And speaking of Kareem...a prime Kareem faced several of the same centers that a prime Chamberlain battled a few years earlier. Players like Imhoff, Dierking, Reed, Bellamy, and Thurmond...and a prime Chamberlain was FAR more dominant against those same centers. Once again, in the season before Kareem arrived, Chamberlain hung a 60 point game on Dierking, and that 66 point game on Jim Fox. KAJ faced both multiple times, and his high game against each... 41 points.
And Kareem's three peak scoring years were when Wilt was still playing - obviously once Magic joined him his shooting % stayed much higher in the later years. Three of his top four rebounding years were when Wilt was playing as well. So he was peaking in terms of energy but was never close in total output outside of points. And Wilt was top two or the best in all around defense in those years.

[LAZERUSS]

These stats are stats of excellence. Not things that Wilt could have set out to do just to impress. He had to be super impressive himself before pulling them off. And his blocks were for the record but you read about his crazy blocking feat incidently (as he knew they weren't recorded).

The 33 rebounds, 33 points, 20 blocks are all effort/intent activities on the court that only a very active skilled player can pull off.


And Kareem's three peak scoring years were when Wilt was still playing - obviously once Magic joined him his shooting % stayed much higher in the later years. Three of his top four rebounding years were when Wilt was playing as well. So he was peaking in terms of energy but was never close in total output outside of points. And Wilt was top two or the best in all around defense in those years.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[WillC]

Chamberlain is the ONLY player to lead the league in scoring AND rebounding, at the same time

That's incorrect.

Neil Johnston also accomplished this feat. He led the league in PPG and RPG in 1954-55.

Incidentally, he also led the league in FG% three times, but not in the season mentioned above.

[KobesFinger]

I can't find your height thread so I'll post it here. How tall do you think Yao and Mutombo are?

http://www.naturalheightgrowth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-Shot-2012-11-02-at-11.22.51-PM.png

[SHAQisGOAT]

Wilt has never done it in the playoffs while Kareem and Shaq have.

Damn.

Oh and that 30+/20+ for his career? Not in the playoffs....

Laz is having a fit right now, bringing out them alt's and shit :oldlol: People just shitting on Wilt left and right on the board, right now.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't find your height thread so I'll post it here. How tall do you think Yao and Mutombo are?

http://www.naturalheightgrowth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-Shot-2012-11-02-at-11.22.51-PM.png

If they played in Wilt's era, they would have been labeled as 6-5 white players...

[LAZERUSS]

Damn.

Oh and that 30+/20+ for his career? Not in the playoffs....

BUT, he had the ONLY FOUR 30-20 post-seasons in NBA history. He also had a 28-30 post-season. And how about post-season SERIES? SEVERAL of them including a 30-30 .555 seven game series against RUSSELL.

And 20-20 post-seasons? Maybe you can give the long list of players who accomplished that feat. Chamberlain did it NINE times.

[SHAQisGOAT]

BUT, he had the ONLY FOUR 30-20 post-seasons in NBA history. He also had a 28-30 post-season. And how about post-season SERIES? SEVERAL of them including a 30-30 .555 seven game series against RUSSELL.

And 20-20 post-seasons? Maybe you can give the long list of players who accomplished that feat. Chamberlain did it NINE times.

1-7 against RUSSELL... Lost SEVEN times.

[LAZERUSS]

1-7 against RUSSELL... Lost SEVEN times.

Shaq vs Ostertag in the playoffs... 1-8.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq vs Ostertag in the playoffs... 1-8.

Shaq: 1 MVP, 4 rings, 3 FMVP....
Ostertag: -

Russell: 5 MVP, 11 rings, would've gotten like 7 FMVP....
Wilt: 4 MVP, 2 rings, 2 FMVP....

Good comparison though :rolleyes:

Oh and no other player (one of the best in the league, if not the best) has been "shitted on" so much by their main rival (also the same) as much as Wilt by Russell...

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq: 1 MVP, 4 rings, 3 FMVP....
Ostertag: -

Russell: 5 MVP, 11 rings, would've gotten like 7 FMVP....
Wilt: 4 MVP, 2 rings, 2 FMVP....

Good comparison though :rolleyes:

Oh and no other player (one of the best in the league, if not the best) has been "shitted on" so much by their main rival (also the same) as much as Wilt by Russell...


You mean the Chamberlain that held a 7-2 First Team All-NBA margin over Russell in their 10 years in the league together? The Chamberlain who, as a rookie, was already considered the best player in the game. The Wilt who would RUN AWAY with the MVP voting in the mid-60's (and in one of them, Russell was nowhere to be found)?

The Wilt, who in their 143 career H2H's, outscored Russell, per game, 28.7 ppg to 14.5 ppg; outrebounded Russell, 28.7 rpg to 23.7 rpg; and outshot Russell from the field by a .497 to .382 margin? Hell, in their known H2H's, Chamberlain also held an enormous edge in blocked shots.

And do you really want to include the MANY games in which Chamberlain just CRUSHED Russell (e.g., outrebounding him by a 55-19 margin; or outscoring him by a 62-23 margin? Or holding Russell to an 0-14 game from the field, etc. etc.)?

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq: 1 MVP, 4 rings, 3 FMVP....
Ostertag: -

Russell: 5 MVP, 11 rings, would've gotten like 7 FMVP....
Wilt: 4 MVP, 2 rings, 2 FMVP....

Good comparison though :rolleyes:

Oh and no other player (one of the best in the league, if not the best) has been "shitted on" so much by their main rival (also the same) as much as Wilt by Russell...


An EXCELLENT comparison BTW. Ostertag put up the same kind of numbers against Shaq, that Russell did against Wilt.

If Russell were "dominating" Wilt in their H2H's, then Ostertag was certainly crushing Shaq in their's.

[SHAQisGOAT]

You mean the Chamberlain that held a 7-2 First Team All-NBA margin over Russell in their 10 years in the league together? The Chamberlain who, as a rookie, was already considered the best player in the game. The Wilt who would RUN AWAY with the MVP voting in the mid-60's (and in one of them, Russell was nowhere to be found)?

The Wilt, who in their 143 career H2H's, outscored Russell, per game, 28.7 ppg to 14.5 ppg; outrebounded Russell, 28.7 rpg to 23.7 rpg; and outshot Russell from the field by a .497 to .382 margin? Hell, in their known H2H's, Chamberlain also held an enormous edge in blocked shots.

And do you really want to include the MANY games in which Chamberlain just CRUSHED Russell (e.g., outrebounding him by a 55-19 margin; or outscoring him by a 62-23 margin? Or holding Russell to an 0-14 game from the field, etc. etc.)?

And yet he was 1-7 against Russell :lol and Bill won 9(!!!) more rings than him, one more MVP too... I mean, if it was close we could be discussing all of that, yet shit ain't even REMOTELY close.

https://i.imgur.com/gJPOBkQ.png

http://www.myjewelrybox.com/media/content/Image/Article%20Images/bill%20russell.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

And yet he was 1-7 against Russell :lol and Bill won 9(!!!) more rings than him, one more MVP too... I mean, if it was close we could be discussing all of that, yet shit ain't even REMOTELY close.

https://i.imgur.com/gJPOBkQ.png

http://www.myjewelrybox.com/media/content/Image/Article%20Images/bill%20russell.jpg


Ostertag 8-1 in his post-season games against a prime Shaq.

Talk about pure domination...

[SHAQisGOAT]

An EXCELLENT comparison BTW. Ostertag put up the same kind of numbers against Shaq, that Russell did against Wilt.

If Russell were "dominating" Wilt in their H2H's, then Ostertag was certainly crushing Shaq in their's.

When are you gonna understand that it ain't all about the (raw) numbers? Learn something child, you have little to no knowledge about the game...
Russ won 9 more rings, one more MVP and was 7-1 against Wilt, if it was close we could be discussing the numbers and such but, again, shit ain't even REMOTELY close.

[LAZERUSS]

And yet he was 1-7 against Russell :lol and Bill won 9(!!!) more rings than him, one more MVP too... I mean, if it was close we could be discussing all of that, yet shit ain't even REMOTELY close.

https://i.imgur.com/gJPOBkQ.png

http://www.myjewelrybox.com/media/content/Image/Article%20Images/bill%20russell.jpg

BTW, I assume then, that you are declaring MAGIC to be the FAR superior player to Bird, then right? 2-1 in H2H's, 5-3 in rings, and if you include both post-season, a MUCH higher career Winning Percentage.

Magic >>>> Bird

[SHAQisGOAT]

Ostertag 8-1 in his post-season games against a prime Shaq.

Talk about pure domination...


Shaq: 1 MVP, 4 rings, 3 FMVP....
Ostertag: -

Russell: 5 MVP, 11 rings, would've gotten like 7 FMVP....
Wilt: 4 MVP, 2 rings, 2 FMVP....

Good comparison though :rolleyes:

Oh and no other player (one of the best in the league, if not the best) has been "shitted on" so much by their main rival (also the same) as much as Wilt by Russell...


:rolleyes:

You got nothing left right now, take the ether... You're just mad as hell now :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

:rolleyes:

You got nothing left right now, take the ether... You're just mad as hell now :oldlol:

One more time... Russell "dominated" Wilt, as much as Ostertag "dominated" Shaq.

The numbers don't lie, do they?

[SHAQisGOAT]

BTW, I assume then, that you are declaring MAGIC to be the FAR superior player to Bird, then right? 2-1 in H2H's, 5-3 in rings, and if you include both post-season, a MUCH higher career Winning Percentage.

Magic >>>> Bird


2-1 in H2Hs; 5-3 in rings; 3-3 in MVPs

7-1 in H2Hs; 11-2 in rings; 5-4 in MVPs

Spot the difference? Do I need to paint you a picture or something, child? :rolleyes:

Bird and Magic are very close in terms of those "things" so you can bring up stuff like Larry being ahead in MVP voting most times, being the overall best player during most time when they were both healthy, playing in a better conference, having to be the main-man from the get-go not playing with a player like Kareem and having worse teammates on average, not as outgoing and aloof (with the media) in his 1st years...
Oh and MUCH higher winning percentage? Stop bullshitting son, if I'm not mistaken Bird has the highest regular-season winning% for a top10 player, even very high including playoffs... Plus, and again, Bird played in a MUCH tougher conference, being the main-man from the start.

Russell vs Wilt? Not REMOTELY close :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

One more time... Russell "dominated" Wilt, as much as Ostertag "dominated" Shaq.

The numbers don't lie, do they?

Nope, they don't...


Shaq: 1 MVP, 4 rings, 3 FMVP....
Ostertag: -

Russell: 5 MVP, 11 rings, would've gotten like 7 FMVP....
Wilt: 4 MVP, 2 rings, 2 FMVP....

Good comparison though :rolleyes:

Oh and no other player (one of the best in the league, if not the best) has been "shitted on" so much by their main rival (also the same) as much as Wilt by Russell...


:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

2-1 in H2Hs; 5-3 in rings; 3-3 in MVPs

7-1 in H2Hs; 11-2 in rings; 5-4 in MVPs

Spot the difference? Do I need to paint you a picture or something, child? :rolleyes:

Bird and Magic are very close in terms of those "things" so you can bring up stuff like Larry being ahead in MVP voting most times, being the overall best player during most time when they were both healthy, playing in a better conference, having to be the main-man from the get-go not playing with a player like Kareem and having worse teammates on average, not as outgoing and aloof (with the media) in his 1st years...
Oh and MUCH higher winning percentage? Stop bullshitting son, if I'm not mistaken Bird has the highest regular-season winning% for a top10 player, even very high including playoffs... Plus, and again, Bird played in a MUCH tougher conference, being the main-man from the start.

Russell vs Wilt? Not REMOTELY close :lol


You are mistaken...

Magic with a regular season .740 to Bird's .736, and then Magic destroyed Bird in the post-season. I won't even both looking that up.

And Magic did better against the Eastern Conference teams in the post-season, than Bird did.

BTW, Magic had a higher career W-L percentage, withOUT Kareem, .743.

[WillC]

That's incorrect.

Neil Johnston also accomplished this feat. He led the league in PPG and RPG in 1954-55.

Incidentally, he also led the league in FG% three times, but not in the season mentioned above.

Conveniently overlooked...

No doubting that Wilt was one of the greatest ever - maybe the greatest - but let's not make up incorrect facts.

[LAZERUSS]

Nope, they don't...



:roll:

Shaq just couldn't beat Ostertag. Utter domination. The same kind of domination that Russell gave Wilt. In fact, Ostertag OWNED Shaq FAR more than Russell owned Wilt. An .889 career post-season winning percentage against the helpless Shaq.

Again, using YOUR logic, the numbers simply don't lie. Shaq just couldn't beat Ostertag. Not even close.

[LAZERUSS]

Conveniently overlooked...

No doubting that Wilt was one of the greatest ever - maybe the greatest - but let's not make up incorrect facts.

You got me.

Johnston was arguably the greatest pre-shot clock player of all-time.

[millwad]

Lazeruss is the biggest clown in ISH history.

Before he got called out for it, he used to claim that Wilt "murdered" Kareem in the '72 playoffs. Then he got the stats posted right in his face.

Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game, shot the ball with better FG% than Wilt, outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt. That according to Lazeruss is Kareem getting murdered by Wilt.

And another hilarious fact is that Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting on Wilt in the regular season of 72.

[LAZERUSS]

Lazeruss is the biggest clown in ISH history.

Before he got called out for it, he used to claim that Wilt "murdered" Kareem in the '72 playoffs. Then he got the stats posted right in his face.

Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game, shot the ball with better FG% than Wilt, outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt. That according to Lazeruss is Kareem getting murdered by Wilt.

And another hilarious fact is that Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting on Wilt in the regular season of 72.

A 38-40 year old KAJ absolutely crushed a 22-24 year old Hakeem H2H. Only when Sampson was guarding KAJ, did Kareem's numbers decline.

Oh, and a 40 year old KAJ outscored a 24 year old Hakeem, and outshot him from the field by a staggering .582 to .403 margin.

And remember, it was YOU who claimed that Hakeem didn't guard Kareem, right?

BUT, a PEAK Kareem shot a CAREER .464 against Wilt (And 27 of their 28 games were by a 34-36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee.)

Hakeem and KAJ went H2H 23 times. KAJ shot over 50% in 20 of them; over 60% in 12 of them; and over 70% in FIVE of them.

A PEAK Kareem against a way-past-his-prime Wilt? 28 career H2H's. 10 in which he shot over 50% (and only ONE in which he shot over 60%), and SIX in which he shot less than 39%.

In the ONE game in which the two played in before Wilt's surgery...Chamberlain easily outplayed Kareem.

[millwad]

A 38-40 year old KAJ absolutely crushed a 22-24 year old Hakeem H2H. Only when Sampson was guarding KAJ, did Kareem's numbers decline.

Oh, and a 40 year old KAJ outscored a 24 year old Hakeem, and outshot him from the field by a staggering .582 to .403 margin.

And remember, it was YOU who claimed that Hakeem didn't guard Kareem, right?

BUT, a PEAK Kareem shot a CAREER .464 against Wilt (And 27 of their 28 games were by a 34-36 year old Wilt, playing on a surgically repaired knee.)

Hakeem and KAJ went H2H 23 times. KAJ shot over 50% in 20 of them; over 60% in 12 of them; and over 70% in FIVE of them.

A PEAK Kareem against a way-past-his-prime Wilt? 28 career H2H's. 10 in which he shot over 50% (and only ONE in which he shot over 60%), and SIX in which he shot less than 39%.

In the ONE game in which the two played in before Wilt's surgery...Chamberlain easily outplayed Kareem.

Kareem vs Hakeem has nothing to do with what I wrote? You're so insecure that you have to bring in Hakeem to the matter just to "get back at me".

And again, stop lying, it's a pure lie to claim that Hakeem got crushed by Kareem his first two years in the league. Olajuwon absolutely destroyed Kareem in the '86 playoffs, the Lakers put everything they had on a 2nd year pro Olajuwon and he still had his way with them and with Kareem. That is a pure lie.

And I am writing about the '72 season, Kareem abused Wilt in the regular season and in the playoffs he outscored Wilt with 23 points per game while having a better FG%.

[oarabbus]

Shaq vs Ostertag in the playoffs... 1-8.



One more time... Russell "dominated" Wilt, as much as Ostertag "dominated" Shaq.

The numbers don't lie, do they?


Shaq: 1 MVP, 4 rings, 3 FMVP....
Ostertag: -

Russell: 5 MVP, 11 rings, would've gotten like 7 FMVP....
Wilt: 4 MVP, 2 rings, 2 FMVP....

Good comparison though :rolleyes:

Oh and no other player (one of the best in the league, if not the best) has been "shitted on" so much by their main rival (also the same) as much as Wilt by Russell...



Lazeruss man I respect you as a poster, I even respect the mad love you got for Wilt, but you are getting REKT here... it's getting ugly. Just drop that argument, its just laughable. Unfortunately it turns out Wilt was human and wasn't perfect.

[CavaliersFTW]

Lazeruss is the biggest clown in ISH history.

Before he got called out for it, he used to claim that Wilt "murdered" Kareem in the '72 playoffs. Then he got the stats posted right in his face.

Kareem outscored Wilt with 23 points per game, shot the ball with better FG% than Wilt, outassisted Wilt and shot FT's twice as good as Wilt. That according to Lazeruss is Kareem getting murdered by Wilt.

And another hilarious fact is that Kareem averaged 40 points on 50% shooting on Wilt in the regular season of 72.
Bill Russell watched that series, he was asked about that series during a 1972 presentation at UCLA and claims Wilt outplayed Jabbar. I can upload if you'd like. Newspapers also praise Wilt for outplaying Jabbar during the series. So there's obviously more to the series than "stats".

[dankok8]

That infamous Time Magazine article came out right after the series and is referring to Game 6 particularly the 4th quarter of the game but Wilt stans take it out of context to mean the entire series.

By the way for those who care Kareem in that clinching game when he got supposedly "destroyed" by Wilt put up 37 points, 25 rebounds, 8 assists on 16/36 shooting. Albeit in that 4th quarter he did shoot just 2/8 from the field as Wilt led the Lakers from a deficit to take the series. But he was a monster when you look at the entire game and single-handedly kept his team in it. Oscar played 6 minutes and scored 2 points until he left the game not to return.

The argument around Wilt's GOAT rebounding and defensive impact in that series compared to Kareem takes a hit when you realize that LA shot 40.5% compared to Milwaukee shooting 42.8%. And that over the course of the series the Bucks were outrebounding the Lakers 59.7 rpg to 55.5 rpg. Considering the disparity in FGA between the two teams it seems likely that the Bucks lost because their guards were overmatched and committed tons of turnovers.

And Wilt's choking teammates? Goodrich and West mopped the floor with Oscar (9/5/5 on 36%) and McGlocklin both of whom were crippled by injury. Even Bob Dandridge (19.3/10.5 on 46%) didn't manage to outplay Jim McMillian (22.7/7.0 on 49%). The latter had one of the greatest games ever by a role player scoring 42 points on 16/25 shooting in a pivotal Game 2 with LA starting down at a 0-2 deficit at home.

That ladies and gentlemen are the facts Wilt stans don't want you to hear.

[LAZERUSS]

That infamous Time Magazine article came out right after the series and is referring to Game 6 particularly the 4th quarter of the game but Wilt stans take it out of context to mean the entire series.

By the way for those who care Kareem in that clinching game when he got supposedly "destroyed" by Wilt put up 37 points, 25 rebounds, 8 assists on 16/36 shooting. Albeit in that 4th quarter he did shoot just 2/8 from the field as Wilt led the Lakers from a deficit to take the series. But he was a monster when you look at the entire game and single-handedly kept his team in it. Oscar played 6 minutes and scored 2 points until he left the game not to return.

The argument around Wilt's GOAT rebounding and defensive impact in that series compared to Kareem takes a hit when you realize that LA shot 40.5% compared to Milwaukee shooting 42.8%. And that over the course of the series the Bucks were outrebounding the Lakers 59.7 rpg to 55.5 rpg. Considering the disparity in FGA between the two teams it seems likely that the Bucks lost because their guards were overmatched and committed tons of turnovers.

And Wilt's choking teammates? Goodrich and West mopped the floor with Oscar (9/5/5 on 36%) and McGlocklin both of whom were crippled by injury. Even Bob Dandridge (19.3/10.5 on 46%) didn't manage to outplay Jim McMillian (22.7/7.0 on 49%). The latter had one of the greatest games ever by a role player scoring 42 points on 16/25 shooting in a pivotal Game 2 with LA starting down at a 0-2 deficit at home.

That ladies and gentlemen are the facts Wilt stans don't want you to hear.

Where do you bashers get your information from?

Here was the EXACT QUOTE from that TIME article...


Chamberlain performed so well in the series that TIME magazine stated, "In the N.B.A.'s western division title series with Milwaukee, he (Chamberlain) decisively outplayed basketball's newest giant superstar, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, eleven years his junior.

Now, whether you agree with their take, or not...THAT is what the article claimed.

BTW, the MILWAUKEE PRESS even claimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem, and I believe CavsFan had an article in which the Bucks COACH, Larry Costello, claimed that WILT was the difference in that series.

Of course, what is truly laughable about all of this, is that here was 35 year old Wilt (almost 36) RUNNING a 25 year old PEAK Kareem into the ground in the 4th quarter of that deciding game, and then even POUNDING him into submission as the period wore on.

Again, a near 36 year old Chamberlain, completely neutralizing a PEAK Kareem in the last FOUR games of that series. A PEAK Kareem shot...get this... .414 in those last four games. A FG% ONLY Rubio would be proud of.

The REAL question will always be...what would a PRIME Chamberlain have carpet-bombed THAT Kareem with?

[swagga]

Where do you bashers get your information from?

Here was the EXACT QUOTE from that TIME article...



Now, whether you agree with their take, or not...THAT is what the article claimed.

BTW, the MILWAUKEE PRESS even claimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem, and I believe CavsFan had an article in which the Bucks COACH, Larry Costello, claimed that WILT was the difference in that series.

Of course, what is truly laughable about all of this, is that here was 35 year old Wilt (almost 36) RUNNING a 25 year old PEAK Kareem into the ground in the 4th quarter of that deciding game, and then even POUNDING him into submission as the period wore on.

Again, a near 36 year old Chamberlain, completely neutralizing a PEAK Kareem in the last FOUR games of that series. A PEAK Kareem shot...get this... .414 in those last four games. A FG% ONLY Rubio would be proud of.

The REAL question will always be...what would a PRIME Chamberlain have carpet-bombed THAT Kareem with?

prime wilt would've dropped better stats but he probably wouldn't have had the time or motivation to practice with the team, therefore he'd be watching the finals on TV..

[dankok8]

Where do you bashers get your information from?

Here was the EXACT QUOTE from that TIME article...

Now, whether you agree with their take, or not...THAT is what the article claimed.

BTW, the MILWAUKEE PRESS even claimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem, and I believe CavsFan had an article in which the Bucks COACH, Larry Costello, claimed that WILT was the difference in that series.

Of course, what is truly laughable about all of this, is that here was 35 year old Wilt (almost 36) RUNNING a 25 year old PEAK Kareem into the ground in the 4th quarter of that deciding game, and then even POUNDING him into submission as the period wore on.

Again, a near 36 year old Chamberlain, completely neutralizing a PEAK Kareem in the last FOUR games of that series. A PEAK Kareem shot...get this... .414 in those last four games. A FG% ONLY Rubio would be proud of.

The REAL question will always be...what would a PRIME Chamberlain have carpet-bombed THAT Kareem with?

YES... it's that precise quote that is taken out of context. Wilt spanked Kareem in the 4th quarter of Game 6 and that's clearly what the article was referring to because it went on to talk about that sequence.

Yes Wilt held Kareem to a low FG% but there is more to the game than shooting the ball. Besides Kareem's struggles had a lot to do with his teammates floundering around him. Oscar and his other main guards were complete non-factors. And besides Wilt shot even worse than he did despite taking so so few shots in comparison.

And it's hard to argue that Wilt's rebounding and team defensive impact was far superior considering the Bucks both outshot and outrebounded the Lakers. Certainly not enough to overcome Kareem's monumental advantage on offense.

The role that Kareem played for his team was eons more important and a far bigger load to carry. If Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series than surely Ben Wallace outplayed Shaq in 2004, and yes by that logic Bill Russell handily outplayed Wilt in almost every one of their H2H series.

Again Chamberlain dominated Kareem in one quarter of one game and got totally destroyed most of the rest of the way. That's the fact.

[LAZERUSS]

YES... it's that precise quote that is taken out of context. Wilt spanked Kareem in the 4th quarter of Game 6 and that's clearly what the article was referring to because it went on to talk about that sequence.

Yes Wilt held Kareem to a low FG% but there is more to the game than shooting the ball. Besides Kareem's struggles had a lot to do with his teammates floundering around him. Oscar and his other main guards were complete non-factors. And besides Wilt shot even worse than he did despite taking so so few shots in comparison.

And it's hard to argue that Wilt's rebounding and team defensive impact was far superior considering the Bucks both outshot and outrebounded the Lakers. Certainly not enough to overcome Kareem's monumental advantage on offense.

The role that Kareem played for his team was eons more important and a far bigger load to carry. If Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series than surely Ben Wallace outplayed Shaq in 2004, and yes by that logic Bill Russell handily outplayed Wilt in almost every one of their H2H series.

Again Chamberlain dominated Kareem in one quarter of one game and got totally destroyed most of the rest of the way. That's the fact.


Chamberlain ALWAYS outscored, OUTREBOUNDED, and BADLY outshot Russell in their career post-season H2H's. Furthermore, Wilt ALWAYS shot WAY above the league average in FG%, while almost always holding Russell to well below it.

Wilt's .452 FG%, with only 20 missed shots, hurt his team FAR less than Kareem's .457 FG% and 107 missed shots. Not only that, but in the LAST FOUR GAMES of that series, Kareem shot a near "Rubio-like" .414 from the field.

And again, virtually EVERYONE who actually WATCHED that series, claimed that Wilt outplayed Kareem. Even the MILWAUKEE PRESS.

In any case, no matter what, a near 36 year old Chamberlain gave a near 25 year old Kareem all he could handle. And in the last four games he had become completely intimidated by Wilt's overwhelming defense (and routinely blocking Kareem's shots, many of which were skyhooks.)

And just the season before, and in their 10 H2H's (regular season and post-season), Chamberlain statistically, and otherwise, outplayed Kareem in the majority of those H2H's.

But the bottom line, though, was that a PEAK Kareem never had to battle a PEAK Chamberlain. A Wilt who absolutely was FAR more dominant against the same centers that a PEAK Kareem would face only a few years later. A mid-60's Wilt had nearly as much weight and strength, more speed, and a higher vertical. He was also much more skilled than a 35 year old Chamberlain.

I'm sorry, but I have a VERY difficult time believing that a PEAK Kareem could have outplayed a PEAK Wilt.

[ralph_i_el]

Wilt is a figment of your imagination Lazeruss. He's the mental stand in for your absentee father.


mind=blown