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View Full Version : Will anyone ever break 100 points in an NBA game?



lilteapot
09-27-2014, 02:53 PM
Is it even possible?

Kvnzhangyay
09-27-2014, 02:59 PM
Unless the other team wants that person to break 100, no

swagga
09-27-2014, 03:07 PM
imo it can only be done in amateur leagues.

Maybe we'll see another gunner like kobe go apeshit from 3. Like durant going full alpha and shooting 30 threes on 75% plus 25 fts and some odd buckets in 3-4OT.

pauk
09-27-2014, 03:08 PM
Not very likely, but i dont think its impossible, even with todays poss. per game / pace & competition (laz/cavsftw, i just mean its different, not saying today>60s).... some great scorer might come around who is extremly selfish, shotjacking, chucking every game & eventually the shots start falling one game bigtime being on fire, he rides / statpads it out until the end..... maybe some over-time happens aswell..... not impossible at all...

HOWEVER.... Averaging:

30.4 ppg
10.0 rpg
10.7 apg

In 6 seasons....

THAT is the most impressive & most unbreakable thing in NBA history..... You cant just statpad that, you still have to be the GOAT allround/overall talent to "statpad" something like that.... even for one single season....

Young X
09-27-2014, 03:43 PM
There's not enough possessions for that to happen. How will someone break 100 points when there's only 90-100 possessions in games now?

pauk
09-27-2014, 04:13 PM
There's not enough possessions for that to happen. How will someone break 100 points when there's only 90-100 possessions in games now?

Give all those possessions to one man? :D

oarabbus
09-27-2014, 04:16 PM
Considering that Wilt scored 100 and Kobe scored 81, I conclude that OP is mentally challenged.

Cocaine80s
09-27-2014, 04:18 PM
Lebron probably if he wanted

lilteapot
09-27-2014, 04:30 PM
Considering that Wilt scored 100 and Kobe scored 81, I conclude that OP is mentally challenged.
Are you implying you believe 81>100?

oarabbus
09-27-2014, 04:35 PM
Are you implying you believe 81>100?



You can't "believe" that 81 > 100.

Random_Guy
09-27-2014, 04:42 PM
well if durant got the green light to chuck against a shit team and got retarded hot maybe?

Eric Cartman
09-27-2014, 04:47 PM
well if durant got the green light to chuck against a shit team and got retarded hot maybe?

Westbrook won't let that happen.

TheMarkMadsen
09-27-2014, 04:48 PM
Will the team foul the other team so to stop the clock and let wilt pad his stats?

Kobes 81 at 6'6 in the modern league is more impressive than wilts 100 at 7'0 in the 1960s..

Especially when you consider the way wilt scored his 100..

stanlove1111
09-27-2014, 04:55 PM
Not very likely, but i dont think its impossible, even with todays poss. per game / pace & competition (laz/cavsftw, i just mean its different, not saying today>60s).... some great scorer might come around who is extremly selfish, shotjacking, chucking every game & eventually the shots start falling one game bigtime being on fire, he rides / statpads it out until the end..... maybe some over-time happens aswell..... not impossible at all...

HOWEVER.... Averaging:

30.4 ppg
10.0 rpg
10.7 apg

In 6 seasons....

THAT is the most impressive & most unbreakable thing in NBA history..... You cant just statpad that, you still have to be the GOAT allround/overall talent to "statpad" something like that.... even for one single season....

I will never understand arguments like this. Why do people think a triple double is some magic feat that means more then anything else? Where does this come from?

Elgin Baylor during his best 5 years easily beat Oscar in scoring and rebounding, and was a better defender...Oscar had more assists but its not like Baylor had zero assists..Why would you consider Oscar the better all around player.

Wilt in his best 5 years destroyed Oscar in scoring, rebounding, and defense yet again you consider Oswald the better all around player just because he averages a triple double despite Wilt being more dominating in every aspect of the game except assists..Don't get it..


Does 20-10-10 beat 35-20-6 with better defense. Hell no..

K Xerxes
09-27-2014, 06:26 PM
Will the team foul the other team so to stop the clock and let wilt pad his stats?

Kobes 81 at 6'6 in the modern league is more impressive than wilts 100 at 7'0 in the 1960s..

Especially when you consider the way wilt scored his 100..

Michael Jordan 63 vs GOAT team in the playoffs >>> Kobe chucking to 81 vs the Craptors in the regular season in a year where the top 4 scorers and many more had career scoring years.

JohnMax
09-27-2014, 06:36 PM
It also has to be someone with great stamina because Melo got tired when he scored 62 against the Bobcats.

poido123
09-27-2014, 06:41 PM
No. Unless the opposing team just let's the guy score once he reached 80...

It takes a lot of energy and stamina like others have said here. I strongly doubt it will ever happen under the current nba rules.

La Frescobaldi
09-27-2014, 06:48 PM
No. Unless the opposing team just let's the guy score once he reached 80...

It takes a lot of energy and stamina like others have said here. I strongly doubt it will ever happen under the current nba rules.

I think it can be broken.
The foul rules and ref protection in the paint are pathetic. Technical fouls for looking at another player too hard? Girly rules.

inclinerator
09-27-2014, 06:53 PM
yea all records get broken eventually

poido123
09-27-2014, 06:54 PM
I think it can be broken.
The foul rules and ref protection in the paint are pathetic. Technical fouls for looking at another player too hard? Girly rules.


Girly rules :lol

Something pure about nba basketball when there was trash talking, fights and hand checking...

I miss that :(

Magic 32
09-27-2014, 07:23 PM
Michael Jordan 63 vs GOAT team in the playoffs >>> Kobe chucking to 81 vs the Craptors in the regular season in a year where the top 4 scorers and many more had career scoring years.

The Craptors were up 18 points.

What does that make the 2006 Lakers then?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Un953orkasI/0.jpg

La Frescobaldi
09-27-2014, 08:55 PM
Girly rules :lol

Something pure about nba basketball when there was trash talking, fights and hand checking...

I miss that :(

exactly. :cheers:

oarabbus
09-27-2014, 09:00 PM
Will the team foul the other team so to stop the clock and let wilt pad his stats?

Kobes 81 at 6'6 in the modern league is more impressive than wilts 100 at 7'0 in the 1960s..

Especially when you consider the way wilt scored his 100..


Dumbest shit I've ever read. Nate Robinson's 45 at 5'8" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe or Wilt then.

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 08:37 AM
Will the team foul the other team so to stop the clock and let wilt pad his stats?

Kobes 81 at 6'6 in the modern league is more impressive than wilts 100 at 7'0 in the 1960s..

Especially when you consider the way wilt scored his 100..

You forgot to add that that "other team" was also deliberately stalling (even though they were well behind), AND, they were fouling Wilt's TEAMMATES, to try and keep Wilt from reaching 100.

TheMarkMadsen
09-28-2014, 09:33 AM
You forgot to add that that "other team" was also deliberately stalling (even though they were well behind), AND, they were fouling Wilt's TEAMMATES, to try and keep Wilt from reaching 100.

From wilts book..


"But my teammates wanted me to do it, too. They started feeding me the ball even when they were wide open."

The whole thing was a manufactured charade.

TheMarkMadsen
09-28-2014, 09:42 AM
"New York coach Eddie Donovan said, 'The game was a farce. They would foul us and we would foul them.' Chamberlain's shot attempts by quarter: 14, 12, 16, 21. You think in a blowout in today's game that a team would keeping feeding their star like that?"

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 09:43 AM
From wilts book..



The whole thing was a manufactured charade.

As poorly as Wilt's teammates shot the first half of his career, they should have been having him go for 100 every night...

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 09:48 AM
"New York coach Eddie Donovan said, 'The game was a farce. They would foul us and we would foul them.' Chamberlain's shot attempts by quarter: 14, 12, 16, 21. You think in a blowout in today's game that a team would keeping feeding their star like that?"

Take a look at Shaq's 61 point game. His 49-11 Lakers routed the 12-47 Clippers in a game in which Shaq played 45 minutes. The Clippers didn't even have a center defending him for most of the game, either.

Or how about Bird's 60 point game? The OPPOSING TEAM was rooting him on.

Talk about "charades"...

Warfan
09-28-2014, 09:56 AM
Take a look at Shaq's 61 point game. His 49-11 Lakers routed the 12-47 Clippers in a game in which Shaq played 45 minutes. The Clippers didn't even have a center defending him for most of the game, either.

Or how about Bird's 60 point game? The OPPOSING TEAM was rooting him on.

Talk about "charades"...

:oldlol: true

I dont think it will ever happen again, although i hope it does :lol I could possibly see someone scoring more than 81 though, but of course that is still extremely unlikely.

Harison
09-28-2014, 10:06 AM
Its very much possible, even in current era. DRobinson was gunning to become a scoring champion over Shaq and team fed him the ball every possession = 71 points. Kobe got red hot against no-defense team = 81 pts.

Now combine red-hot game with the team force-feeding him to reach 100 points, and after some tries pretty much any offensive superstar could eventually get 100.

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 10:57 AM
Its very much possible, even in current era. DRobinson was gunning to become a scoring champion over Shaq and team fed him the ball every possession = 71 points. Kobe got red hot against no-defense team = 81 pts.

Now combine red-hot game with the team force-feeding him to reach 100 points, and after some tries pretty much any offensive superstar could eventually get 100.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

In the ENTIRE history of the NBA, there have been a TOTAL of TEN 70+ point games...and Chamberlain has SIX of them by himself, and only FOUR other players have ever scored 70+ even ONCE.

BTW, maybe you or another "basher" can explain this to me...in the 14 years in which Chamberlain played (and the bashers will tell us that it was a massively INFLATED era), and aside from Wilt, there were a TOTAL of FIVE 60+ point games. Yes, FIVE.

Now, can someone here explain how it was that Wilt had 32 in that same period? Or that a PEAK Kareem didn't have ANY (in fact, he didn't have ANY in his entire 20 year career)? How come in such a "high-paced" period, that it was ONLY Chamberlain who was routinely hanging 60+ point games?

G0ATbe
09-28-2014, 11:01 AM
They need to erase it from the record books completely imo. Everyone knows that if you put 81be in that era he'd have multiple 150+ point games. There's nothing special about Wilts 100.

stanlove1111
09-28-2014, 12:01 PM
From wilts book..



The whole thing was a manufactured charade.

Exactly..The amazing thing about this thread is nobody has mentioned the number of shots Wilt took that might..Counting the times he was fouled while shooting and rewarded with 2 foul shots, he took about 75 shots that game. There is no use in talking about the 100points without talking about the 75 shots..This is not baseball where everyone gets up basically the same amount of times so you can compare numbers.

If any good offensive player wants to score a ton and his teammates make it their goal for him to score a ton, he is scoring a ton. David Thompson and Gervin played under those conditions once in their career and look what they did. Nobody else ever does this.

stanlove1111
09-28-2014, 12:03 PM
:roll: :roll: :roll:

In the ENTIRE history of the NBA, there have been a TOTAL of TEN 70+ point games...and Chamberlain has SIX of them by himself, and only FOUR other players have ever scored 70+ even ONCE.

BTW, maybe you or another "basher" can explain this to me...in the 14 years in which Chamberlain played (and the bashers will tell us that it was a massively INFLATED era), and aside from Wilt, there were a TOTAL of FIVE 60+ point games. Yes, FIVE.

Now, can someone here explain how it was that Wilt had 32 in that same period? Or that a PEAK Kareem didn't have ANY (in fact, he didn't have ANY in his entire 20 year career)? How come in such a "high-paced" period, that it was ONLY Chamberlain who was routinely hanging 60+ point games?

Jabbar was a team player who would never take that many shots. he played in the flow of the game. Wilt did not do this in the 61-62 season..So your point is ridiculous and I can't believe this has to be explained to you..

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 02:00 PM
Jabbar was a team player who would never take that many shots. he played in the flow of the game. Wilt did not do this in the 61-62 season..So your point of ridiculous and I can't believe this has to be explained to you..


Let me ask you then, in KAJ's '71-72 season, he averaged 24.9 FGA per game, on a team that went 63-19.

In his five regular season H2H's with Chamberlain, he scored 40 ppg, but took 34 FGAs per game to do so, AND, his team went 1-4 in them. In fact, in his highest scoring game against Wilt, he scored 50 points, on 39 FGAs...in a BLOWOUT loss (they were down by 21 points going into the 4th quarter, and coasted to a 16 point loss.)

Then, in his six playoff games against CHamberlain, he averaged 34 ppg, BUT, did so on 33 FGAs per game, AND, his team went 2-4 in them (and 1-3 in the last four games when he shot .414 from the floor.)

Why would this "team" player up his shooting DRAMATICALLY, and ONLY against Wilt? And in the process, his team was wiped out?


As for your remark about Wilt's 61-62 season...have you actually researched that season? You do realize that it was NOT Wilt's idea for Chamberlain to score 50 ppg, but rather his COACH. His coach had watched his absolutely pathetic roster get swept in the '61 playoffs because Wilt's teammates collectively shot .332 in that series, and decided their only hope was for Wilt to shoot. Better Chamberlain taking 50 FGAs on a 50% FG%, than his teammates taking 50 FGAs on a 35% FG%.


Oh, and for those idiots that say that just any scorer could get 100 points in a game if they got the ball enough...why wasn't it done more often?

When Robinson scored his 71 points, his team won handily. When Shaq scored his 61 points, his team won a in rout. When Kobe scored his 81, they won by 18 and were pulling away.

If it were so easy, AND SUCCESSFUL, why didn't teams employ that MANY times?

Or, as was the case of MJ in '87, when he averaged 37 ppg on a 40-42 team. Why didn't he shoot the ball 50 times a game?

Or how about Walt Bellamy in his 31.6 ppg season (and on a league-leading .509 FG%)....when his team went 18-62? Why wasn't he scoring much more? Hell, on an 18-62 team they had nothing to lose. He should have taken more shots than Wilt that year. As a side-note, he and Wilt went at it 10 times that year, and while Bellamy had good numbers, 34.7 ppg, Chamberlain just crushed him... 52.7 ppg (outscoring Bellamy in nine of the ten games, and pasting him with three games of 60+, including a 73-36 game.)

Le Shaqtus
09-28-2014, 02:08 PM
More like "WilT anyone ever break 100 points in an NBA game?"

http://giant.gfycat.com/ObviousElegantEyra.gif

TheMarkMadsen
09-28-2014, 03:00 PM
Take a look at Shaq's 61 point game. His 49-11 Lakers routed the 12-47 Clippers in a game in which Shaq played 45 minutes. The Clippers didn't even have a center defending him for most of the game, either.

Or how about Bird's 60 point game? The OPPOSING TEAM was rooting him on.

Talk about "charades"...

What does Shaq or Larry Bird have to do with my original statement that Kobes 81 was more impressive than Wilts 100?

PsychoBe
09-28-2014, 03:06 PM
What does Shaq or Larry Bird have to do with my original statement that Kobes 81 was more impressive than Wilts 100?

lazer-meds doesnt even know what he's talking about. both shaq and kobe's teams were down when they went on their rampage. add to the fact that most of kobe's points came from fade-aways and contested shots over double and triple teams and you have easily the greatest basketball performance in nba history.

TheMarkMadsen
09-28-2014, 03:32 PM
lazer-meds doesnt even know what he's talking about. both shaq and kobe's teams were down when they went on their rampage. add to the fact that most of kobe's points came from fade-aways and contested shots over double and triple teams and you have easily the greatest basketball performance in nba history.

Exactly. Also something that Wilt stans wont mention is that offensive goaltending was still legal in 1962.

Wilts teammates were intentionally fouling the Knicks in the 4th quarter even though Wilt & his team was up by 20..

StephHamann
09-28-2014, 03:36 PM
Silver should rigg someone to 100 points, would make the league more popular

dreamwarrior
09-28-2014, 03:49 PM
It's damn near impossible. Look at Kobe's 81 pt game. He shot .609, .538 from 3 and .900 from the FT on 33 2pa, 13 3pa and 20 fta. To get off that many shots is nearly impossible to begin with as only 4 people have done it (MJ, Kobe, Webber and Wilt). Shaq imo had the best chance to get to 100 due to his position and dominating play but the most fga he ever attempted in a game was 40 and he only scored 49. In his 61pt game he shot .686 and .591 on 22 FTA. Even if he had 46 FGA and kept his shooting % he would've scored just 76-77 points.

TheMarkMadsen
09-28-2014, 03:58 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but they shot 3 free throws instead of 2 back then right?

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 04:18 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but they shot 3 free throws instead of 2 back then right?

Yes, and no. "Three-to-make-two" in the bonus. BUT, they also had ONE shot fouls, as well.

BTW, Chamberlain shot 28-32 from the line in his 100 point game, and likely did not need any "bonus" attempts.

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 04:21 PM
Exactly. Also something that Wilt stans wont mention is that offensive goaltending was still legal in 1962.

Wilts teammates were intentionally fouling the Knicks in the 4th quarter even though Wilt & his team was up by 20..

Offensive goal-tending was legal in 1962?

http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nba/nbahistory.htm


1945 Defensive goaltending is banned; Players are now allowed five fouls before fouling out (previously the limit was four); 3-second violation enacted.


1958 Offensive goaltending is banned. 1-and-1 goes into effect on the seventh foul of the half. Uniform numbers “1”, “2” and any digit greater than “5 “ are banned.

Chamberlain NEVER played in an NBA game in which either offensive, or defensive goal-tending was legal.

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 04:28 PM
As a side-note...

Wilt's 100 point game was his FOURTH 60+ point game in a ROW.

In those four games, Chamberlain AVERAGED 73.3 ppg.

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 04:32 PM
Another side-note...


Darrall Imhoff, who as a 6-foot-10 rookie center for the New York Knicks had the misfortune of guarding Chamberlain during his 100-point game in 1962, said, "I spent 12 years in his armpits, and I always carried that 100-point game on my shoulders. "After I got my third foul, I said to one of the officials, Willy Smith, 'Why don't you just give him 100 points and we'll all go home?' Well, we did." Two nights later, at Madison Square Garden, Chamberlain tried to go for the century mark again. But Imhoff 'held' him to 54 points. The fans gave Imhoff a standing ovation. "He was an amazing, strong man," Imhoff said. "I always said the greatest record he ever held wasn't 100 points, but his 55 rebounds against Bill Russell. Those two players changed the whole game of basketball. The game just took an entire step up to the next level." Stewart, Larry (1999-10-13). "Giant Towered Over the Rest". The Los Angeles Times.



BTW, it was actually 58.

Marchesk
09-28-2014, 04:44 PM
Lebron probably if he wanted

Would hurt his efficiency doe.

Marchesk
09-28-2014, 04:48 PM
Silver should rigg someone to 100 points, would make the league more popular

Should rig it for Melo. Not like the Knicks are doing anything. They need to be relevant somehow.

Marchesk
09-28-2014, 04:55 PM
yea all records get broken eventually

Maybe? Dimaggio's record still stands. That's pretty damn old. The Celtics winning 8 titles in a row will be extremely hard to break. Some think the Bulls could have done so had MJ not retired (both times), but odds are fatigue would have caught up with them and they would have been taken down at some point. Or run into peak Olajuwon.

I don't think Wilt's rebound or scoring record are going to fall unless the pace of the game picks back up combined with another Kobe-like performance. The rebounding one might even be harder to break. When is the last time anyone got close to 50?

jzek
09-28-2014, 05:21 PM
No. Just goes to show how inferior the old era is... :facepalm

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 08:13 PM
No. Just goes to show how inferior the old era is... :facepalm

No, it just goes to show you how inferior THIS era is. Entire TEAMS don't average 100 ppg. Bunch of weak-ass clowns trying to play the game...

TheMarkMadsen
09-28-2014, 08:19 PM
No, it just goes to show you how inferior THIS era is. Entire TEAMS don't average 100 ppg. Bunch of weak-ass clowns trying to play the game...

:facepalm :facepalm


1962 league average for teams was 119 ppg..

2014 league average for teams was 101ppg..

PACE PACE PACE PACE...

Teams back then played absolutly no defense, the pace was insane, guys like Oscar Robertson were averaging trip doubles for 6 straight years.. defense was garbage..

LAZERUSS
09-28-2014, 09:23 PM
:facepalm :facepalm


1962 league average for teams was 119 ppg..

2014 league average for teams was 101ppg..

PACE PACE PACE PACE...

Teams back then played absolutly no defense, the pace was insane, guys like Oscar Robertson were averaging trip doubles for 6 straight years.. defense was garbage..

Well I was being facetious, but to claim that they played no defense, when players like Kareem were shooting .518 from the field in the 60's, and most others were shooting 40-45% is being harsh.

Nate Thurmond held a PEAK Kareem to a .447 FG% in their four full seasons in the league together. Not only that, but in their 34 H2H games, KAJ's HIGH game was 34 points (and he only hit 30+ five times altogether.)

There were 30-52 teams in the 80's that were shooting .504 from the field. And the current NBA has cracked the .500 barrier for eFG%'s.

Yes, "pace" matters. But then again, with the floor so widely spaced today, true centers should be scoring considerably more. And we have clods like Cousins scoring 24 ppg to prove it.

The posters that rip "Wilt's pace", need to realize, that the highest scoring period in the 60's, was 119 ppg. And that was the HIGHEST. In Chamberlain's 68-69 season, the NBA averaged 112 ppg, and Wilt STILL hung TWO 60+ point games.

Of course, the "paceologists" merely use "pace" without adjusting for the considerably worse FG%'s of the 60's. If we are going to punish the players of the 60's for playing at a higher "pace", then we also have to adjust for their lower eFG%'s.

So, when someone says that the '62 NBA averaged 108 FGAs, and 37 FTAs per game...they have to adjust for the league only shooting .426, as well. For example, just reducing the '62 season down to MJ's '87 season, and Chamberlain's FGAs would have declined from 39.5 down to 32.6 FGAs per game, and his FTAs would have declined from 17.0 down to 14.0. Without adjusting for Chamberlain shooting .506 in a league that shot an eFG% of .426, Wilt's numbers would STILL have translated to 32.6 + 8.5, or 41.1 ppg. BUT, then you HAVE to adjust his FG% up, or else his league would only be averaging about 95 ppg in '87, and not 110 ppg. So, Chamberlain's .506 suddenly becomes .580 in '87, and then you have to adjust his FGM to reflect that. His 16.3 FGM then becomes 19 FGM per game, and raises his scoring level to 46.5 ppg.

Of course, we could also do the simple math, as well. Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg in an NBA that averaged 118.8 ppg. Reduce his scoring down to the '87 level of 109.9 ppg...or 92.5% of his '62 seasonal scoring...and he would have averaged 46.6 ppg. Or pretty much dead-on using the much more complex formula.

But I don't expect the vast majority of posters here to comprehend any of that.

The real bottom line....the game today is not played much differently than it was 50 years ago. The players aren't any bigger, nor more skilled, and the rules, aside from the 3pt line, are essentially the same. And the court size, hoop size, and ball size are all identical, as well.

True, it is played at a slower pace, but only marginally.

ImKobe
09-29-2014, 09:41 AM
Kobe could have back when the pace was considerably higher. Heck, he could have broken 100 in his prime if the team was any worse and Phil just decided to let Kobe break the record by letting him gun 50+ shots in a game...

Remember, he dropped 55 points in one half and 61 through 3 quarters, and those games happened within a month + he could have shot better in both of them (he only played 32 mins in the Dallas game as well and only took 31 shots).

SOD 21
09-29-2014, 11:25 AM
Yes, of course, pace matters because when the pace is 18% faster in the early 1960s than in today's NBA, it leads to that many more scoring opportunities.

Consider this, when will Chamberlain scored 100 points in 1962 he accounted for 59% of his team's points that night compared to Kobe Bryant scoring 66% of his team's points against Toronto in 2006. The difference is that Wilt's team scored nearly 50 more points in that game in 1962 compared to Kobe's in 2006.

Another factor in Wilt Chamberlain's favor is the mind-boggling amount of minutes that he regularly played in that era of the NBA. In the 1962 season when he scored 100 points, he averaged 48.5 minutes per game. He never came out of games, ever. While his stamina and durability is remarkable, it isn't something that players ever do consistently in today's league with the amount of their contracts and concern over hurting their longevity and health.

The pace of the game and the sheer minutes that he played makes it almost impossible for any modern player to duplicate his hundred point game; unless it is some type of freakish game that is exceptionally high scoring that goes into multiple overtimes, then maybe.