Fact or Fiction: Shaq deserved more MVP awards

[KyleKong]

Was watching the video from orabbuss thread

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355129

Of course Shaq should have not gotten the MVP in 2005 and 2006

However, do you think Shaq should have gotten more MVP awards?

[Collie]

Yeah. 01 at least should have definitely gone to him.

[KyleKong]

Yeah. 01 at least should have definitely gone to him.

I hear that all the time.

I never watched the NBA in the early 2000s, was A.I.s regular season performance not good enough to win an MVP over Shaq?

[T_L_P]

He deserved two in my opinion.

He routinely missed 10-20 games per year so I can see both sides of the argument.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He deserved 05

[ImKobe]

Just like Kobe, Shaq should have 3 MVPs.

[T_L_P]

Just like Kobe, Shaq should have 3 MVPs.

:biggums:

[Harison]

Even freaking Nash got two MVPs, its one of many travesties that Shaq got only one.

[Cold soul]

Even freaking Nash got two MVPs, its one of many travesties that Shaq got only one.

Agreed. It's the same for Kobe too. Shaq got robbed in 01 and 05.

[Collie]

I hear that all the time.

I never watched the NBA in the early 2000s, was A.I.s regular season performance not good enough to win an MVP over Shaq?

Well, probably not 100%, but I feel that he had the numbers and the impact to win it. He was not far off from 00 (which many say is a top 5 peak all-time). 29/13/4/3 and he played 74 games, which is a lot for him.

By sheer dominance alone, I felt he should have been MVP.

[ImKobe]

:biggums:

Shaq 99,00,01
Kobe 03, 06, 08

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/hypehaitian228/camron.gif

[T_L_P]

Agreed. It's the same for Kobe too. Shaq got robbed in 01 and 05.

Shaq may have been robbed in 01, but he wasn't close to being robbed in 05.

He was about as effective as 3-4 others that year. He definitively was not clearly better than, say, Dirk, Duncan or KG. :confusedshrug:

[T_L_P]

Shaq 99,00,01
Kobe 03, 06, 08

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b377/hypehaitian228/camron.gif

Kobe in 03 is laughable.

Did he have better stats than Duncan? His raw stats - PPG+RPG+APG+SPG+BPG-TOV - were about 1 total point better than Duncan's. Difference is, Duncan was more efficient, had much better advanced stats, RAPM etc, lead his team to more wins without another All-Star (let alone superstar), played 50x more effective defense, was a better leader, the list goes on.

KG had better stats and lead his inferior team to more wins than Kobe.

Now he's the MVP.

http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

EDIT: not to mention Kobe's 5-10 record without the true alpha of the Lakers.

http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

[ImKobe]

Kobe in 03 is laughable.

Did he have better stats than Duncan? His raw stats - PPG+RPG+APG+SPG+BPG-TOV - were about 1 total point better than Duncan's. Difference is, Duncan was more efficient, had much better advanced stats, RAPM etc, lead his team to more wins without another All-Star (let alone superstar), played 50x more effective defense, was a better leader, the list goes on.

KG had better stats and lead his inferior team to more wins.

Now he's the MVP.

http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

03 Lakers were garbage outside of Shaq & Kobe, one of the worst defenses in the league and were fatigued as hell from the 3 straight championship runs, Kobe stepped up and kept them from being completely trash, Shaq put up numbers but he wasn't the same Shaq and when he missed those games Kobe put up great numbers.

Spurs were better than the Lakers overall that year, Duncan > Shaq and their role players were more effective. Kobe had to do a lot of crazy shit (9 straight games of 40+ points, 3pt record, dropping 42 in one half on MJ) to even get the team to 50 wins that season, 30/7/6 with 2.2 spg, 38% from 3...5 triple doubles, how you gonna discredit that?

Lakers struggled big time up until the ASB and lost a lot of games early, then boom Kobe goes off on his 40+ point games streak and they end up winning 26 out of 35 to close the season with Kobe averaging 32/6/5 on 45/39/86 shooting..

[ImKobe]

Kobe in 03 is laughable.

Did he have better stats than Duncan? His raw stats - PPG+RPG+APG+SPG+BPG-TOV - were about 1 total point better than Duncan's. Difference is, Duncan was more efficient, had much better advanced stats, RAPM etc, lead his team to more wins without another All-Star (let alone superstar), played 50x more effective defense, was a better leader, the list goes on.

KG had better stats and lead his inferior team to more wins than Kobe.

Now he's the MVP.

http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

EDIT: not to mention Kobe's 5-10 record without the true alpha of the Lakers.

http://replygif.net/i/980.gif

Oh, so Shaq adds wins to the team as well? Really? The guy they won 3 chips with? The system was built around Shaq and Kobe, you take one of them out and of course they're gonna struggle, especially when they are coming off 3 deep runs and Kobe is the only player giving his all..

Just look at Kobe past all-star break, how you gonna ignore what he did to close out the season, especially the last 4 games of the season (when it came down to Playoff seeding) and he averaged 37/7/5/2 on 51/37/94 shooting http://i.imgur.com/7cRJIhW.png

[T_L_P]

03 Lakers were garbage outside of Shaq & Kobe, one of the worst defenses in the league and were fatigued as hell from the 3 straight championship runs, Kobe stepped up and kept them from being completely trash, Shaq put up numbers but he wasn't the same Shaq and when he missed those games Kobe put up great numbers.

Spurs were better than the Lakers overall that year, Duncan > Shaq and their role players were more effective. Kobe had to do a lot of crazy shit (9 straight games of 40+ points, 3pt record, dropping 42 in one half on MJ) to even get the team to 50 wins that season, 30/7/6 with 2.2 spg, 38% from 3...5 triple doubles, how you gonna discredit that?

Lakers struggled big time up until the ASB and lost a lot of games early, then boom Kobe goes off on his 40+ point games streak and they end up winning 26 out of 35 to close the season with Kobe averaging 32/6/5 on 45/39/86 shooting..

I'm not discrediting that. He'd have been 3rd on my MVP ballot. It was probably the best regular season of his career all things considered.

But he wasn't the best or most valuable player in the league that year. He didn't have the record, stats, or intangibles to match Duncan. Posting what he did over a stretch or half season shows me it wasn't him. MVP is a full season award, and his full season wasn't better than Duncan's -- and it wasn't even better than Garnett's.

[iamgine]

Shaq was performing the best in the league for a number of years. However, he consistently miss regular season games.

There are only 2 seasons when he was playing more than 70 games and was performing like the best player. 99-00 and 00-1. Out of those 2 seasons, he got 1 MVPs. If he deserved more MVPs, it was only 1 more.

[BigTicket]

Shaq was performing the best in the league for a number of years. However, he consistently miss regular season games.

There are only 2 seasons when he was playing more than 70 games and was performing like the best player. 99-00 and 00-1. Out of those 2 seasons, he got 1 MVPs. If he deserved more MVPs, it was only 1 more.

Agreed. If you can't stay healthy, you can't win the MVP.

Fans of Shaq and Kobe seem to think that the MVP is a career achievement award, but it is not. It's an individual season award, and except for Shaq in 01, they don't deserve any more MVPs than they got.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

01 and 05 should've been Shaq, a case can be made for 99 as well.

[ArbitraryWater]

He actually had a great case in 2005... Was 2nd.

2001 was his, most def. A case can be made for '98, '99 and '05.

[ArbitraryWater]

I hear that all the time.

I never watched the NBA in the early 2000s, was A.I.s regular season performance not good enough to win an MVP over Shaq?

:biggums:

You had Shaquille O'Neal, the most dominant player of all time, at his PEAK, and you wonder if Iverson should win MVP over him?

[ImKobe]

:biggums:

You had Shaquille O'Neal, the most dominant player of all time, at his PEAK, and you wonder if Iverson should win MVP over him?

Well, Shaq also had Kobe putting up 29/6/5/2 on 46% shooting..Kobe scored under 20 in only 11 games that season, so I guess that is why the voters went with AI

You know, winning MVPs was never really about who the best player in the league was...It's about stats + a great story to go along with it. AI was this icon for the black youth that was putting up high-scoring games and winning many of them, and he did lead a team to the Finals that year and had one memorable Finals game(on Lakers home court nonetheless), so I think in terms of that he deserved it.

I know MVP is a regular season award, but what Kobe did in the Western Playoffs that year....Shaq was not the best player on our team even, Kobe was putting up MJ numbers when the Lakers went undefeated and after a horrible game in their only loss, Kobe put up beastly numbers again.

Shaq and Kobe both deserved the MVP in 01 because they both did so much on a team that did not really have that great of a supporting cast purely by looking at the numbers.

[Thorn]

I hear that all the time.

I never watched the NBA in the early 2000s, was A.I.s regular season performance not good enough to win an MVP over Shaq?
AI in 01 was a huge feel good story because people saw how bad the offense was aside from him and how he had to do most of the heavy lifting on that end. The Pacers, Knicks and Heat fell off from 00 to 01 so there was a void at the top of the East that year and the Sixers seized it. There was a changing of the guard with Miller/Ewing/Zo all declining or leaving and Ray Allen/VC/AI coming into their own.

That doesn't mean AI was a better player than Shaq (probably not even Kobe/Duncan). The Lakers fell off from 67 to 56 wins, the first signs of strife between Kobe and Shaq started to appear and their defense slipped a lot in the RS. AI had 31/4/5 on 52% TS but Shaq had 29/13/4 on 59% TS...AI wasn't a better player than Shaq period, let alone to the extent that the MVP voting turned out.

[JonatanRey]

Well, Shaq also had Kobe putting up 29/6/5/2 on 46% shooting..Kobe scored under 20 in only 11 games that season, so I guess that is why the voters went with AI

You know, winning MVPs was never really about who the best player in the league was...It's about stats + a great story to go along with it. AI was this icon for the black youth that was putting up high-scoring games and winning many of them, and he did lead a team to the Finals that year and had one memorable Finals game(on Lakers home court nonetheless), so I think in terms of that he deserved it.

I know MVP is a regular season award, but what Kobe did in the Western Playoffs that year....Shaq was not the best player on our team even, Kobe was putting up MJ numbers when the Lakers went undefeated and after a horrible game in their only loss, Kobe put up beastly numbers again.

Shaq and Kobe both deserved the MVP in 01 because they both did so much on a team that did not really have that great of a supporting cast purely by looking at the numbers.

Underline every word you said. You just have to take a look at the history of the trophy to know that they dont recognize the top player in the league. If that were true, Shaq should have 5 MVPs. Kobe probably 3 or 4. And Nash should never have won one.

[Micku]

:biggums:

You had Shaquille O'Neal, the most dominant player of all time, at his PEAK, and you wonder if Iverson should win MVP over him?

Cuz A.I had no legit second or third scoring option on his team, and he managed to the same record as the Lakers. Theo Ratliff was his second option and he only average 12.4 ppg, and he got hurt mid season. Mutombo stepped in tho.

Even though they sucked in terms of offensively talent, they still were one of the best defensive teams in the league at that point.

I could understand the arguments with AI getting the reward and at this time he might've been the most popular NBA player, tho I think Shaq or Duncan should've won it over him. Tim Duncan cuz didn't miss a game, the Spurs had the best record in the league, and the best defensive team. Shaq cuz it was prime Shaq, and prime Shaq is a beast.

[Real Men Wear Green]

To me "deserved" is the wrong word. There were undoubtedly other seasons when he was the NBA's best player but the word "deserved" has a dimension of earning it because of hard work. Shaq wasn't a total slacker but he routinely came into camp out of shape and then played himself into shape throughout the season and that probably contributed to the 20 games he seemed to miss every season. That's why although a player of his caliber should have more than one MVP I don't view it as being all that unfair because his lack of the supreme work ethic you normally see in an all-time great means he bears a large part of the responsibility for him not getting every award he maybe could have. Top 3 talent, top 10 player.

[ArbitraryWater]

Well, Shaq also had Kobe putting up 29/6/5/2 on 46% shooting..Kobe scored under 20 in only 11 games that season, so I guess that is why the voters went with AI

You know, winning MVPs was never really about who the best player in the league was...It's about stats + a great story to go along with it. AI was this icon for the black youth that was putting up high-scoring games and winning many of them, and he did lead a team to the Finals that year and had one memorable Finals game(on Lakers home court nonetheless), so I think in terms of that he deserved it.

I know MVP is a regular season award, but what Kobe did in the Western Playoffs that year....Shaq was not the best player on our team even, Kobe was putting up MJ numbers when the Lakers went undefeated and after a horrible game in their only loss, Kobe put up beastly numbers again.

Shaq and Kobe both deserved the MVP in 01 because they both did so much on a team that did not really have that great of a supporting cast purely by looking at the numbers.

Except it really is about stats/best player.. THEN story.

If it would be about teammates, then LeBron doesn't win in 2012 with Wade.

Oh gosh at the bolded... Kobe was the Lakers' best player in 2001? Kobe was the best player in the world in 2001?

[RRR3]

Kobe mvp in 2003? :whatever: Tmac was better than Kobe that year.

[MJ(Mean John)]

Just like Kobe, Shaq Deserved AT LEAST another MVP.

[Myth]

I still think he should have 3: 2000, 2001, 2005