Must! Punish Tankers

[tamaraw08]

Teams main agenda for the coming season.
SUCK, SUCK SUCK? How do they do it?, Do NOT sign ANY DECENT PLAYERS AND/OR coaches.
Im not talking about the Bobcats who atleast signed Lance Stephenson.
Or Detroit who hired SVG and didn't lose any good players. Or Miami who after losing the best player in the league quickly signed Deng etc.
Im talking about
1. the Sixers, not only did NOT SIGN any decent players, they gave away Thadeus Young for a draft pick. They also pick an injured rookie to make sure they suck this season.
2. Orlando Magic, retained that rookie coach, signed NOBODY decent.
3. Utah, hired a rookie coach, no new players signed.
And we expect them to have their way and ABUSE the league's WELFARE SYSTEM of getting draft picks.

[poido123]

Might get fixed one day.

I agree though, the system should change.

[AnaheimLakers24]

nuggets too

[MMM]

How do you expect those teams to sign or hire anyone decent when nobody wants to play or coach there????

[Sarcastic]

The only way to punish them is to take away the incentive to tank, which is high draft picks. If the NBA used a system like the Wheel (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-possible-solution-for-tanking-good-bye-to-the-lottery-hello-to-the-wheel/), and teams knew exactly where they would draft regardless of record, then it would be in their best interest to put out the best possible team every year.

[qrich]

Orlando signed the great Ben Gordon and Channing Frye, championship.

No really, blatant tanking should be punished by draft spot being dropped by five spots.

And the wheel system is garbage.

[Sarcastic]

Orlando signed the great Ben Gordon and Channing Frye, championship.

No really, blatant tanking should be punished by draft spot being dropped by five spots.

And the wheel system is garbage.


Yea because fair is garbage. :rolleyes:

[qrich]

Yea because fair is garbage. :rolleyes:

Fair? So, let's say, Utah, starts out 2015 with the 20th pick, they, then get, 17, 8, 5, 26 & 22, for the next five years.

How is that fair?

[Crystallas]

I have no issues with teams that tank.

[tamaraw08]

nuggets too
But the Nuggets were ravaged with injuries last year PLUS, they went ahead and acquire Arron Afflalo. No he is not a superstar but certainly a very good player. One quick check is each teams payroll. Denver atlleast ratained their key players...

[tamaraw08]

How do you expect those teams to sign or hire anyone decent when nobody wants to play or coach there????

You can't ask that question about Charlotte can you?:confusedshrug:
THey stunk pretty bad the past 6 yrs or so but Al Jefferson went there 2 yrs ago and now they just signed Lance Stephenson.
The operative word is "TRY". You tender offer sheets or even make trades, just like the Kings who now have Rudy Gay.
Then look at their payroll.
Sixers BLATANTLY DUMP EVERY FREAKING DECENT PLAYER THEY HAD.
Jrue Holiday, gone.
Evans, gone.
Nick Young, gone.
Hawes, gone.
And to complete the salary dumping. Thadeus Young gone.:rant
Now what? every Sixers game esp against good teams would be a predictable ending. A Slaughter. Every team who wants to try to win would be welcomed, "go ahead, beat us to a pulp, we don't care!".

[BankShot]

The real problem is the system in place that makes tanking an attractive option to rebuilding a mediocre team. Fix that and there won't be incentive to tank.

As much as you hate what the 76ers have done, look at the core that they have moving forward:

MCW - Noel - Saric - Embiid - Top Pick

[artificial]

Sixer fan here.

The Sixers were stuck in mediocrity for some time, being a borderline playoff team every year since Iverson left. Barely missing the playoffs or sure fire 1st round exit. With that kind of roster, the 76ers didn't have a budget to sign superstars, build a championship team. They were stuck with to-be-developed borderline stars -if lucky- in the draft.

Personally I was very, very tired of watching my team stuck forever in the purgatory. I can't say I'm pissed off at them intentionally blowing the house in hopes for an actual future. I'm excited for my team for the 1st time in a decade.

I see where you are coming from. The system may be flawed, and teams like the Sixers are exploiting it (I believe that's why the system was established though). It may be sad to watch a team intentionally built to lose for a season. But if you are going to criticize, you better have a better solution for the problem.

Because if you were a fan of the Sixers or another rebuilding team you probably would understand the current process we are going through. The Sixers are trying very, very hard and sacrificing a lot in order to be competitive in the future.

So you either shut the f*ck up and stick to rooting for your team, or at least prove that you have a point by proposing a better alternative instead of just ranting like a little baby.

[atljonesbro]

Who cares if a team tanks.

[Sarcastic]

Fair? So, let's say, Utah, starts out 2015 with the 20th pick, they, then get, 17, 8, 5, 26 & 22, for the next five years.

How is that fair?


That's two top 10 picks, and they would probably have another one in the next 5 years as well. Every 10 years, every team is guaranteed to get at least 3 top 10 picks. That seems fair to me.

It also accomplishes what the op is asking for: ending tanking.

[JonatanRey]

Who cares if a team tanks.

Europeans as me have to go to bed at 3 am after watching Milwaukee or Orlando. I do care. Of course, they have fans that pay a lot for tickets to see a team whom leader is a guy called Brandon Knight.

[tamaraw08]

Europeans as me have to go to bed at 3 am after watching Milwaukee or Orlando. I do care. Of course, they have fans that pay a lot for tickets to see a team whom leader is a guy called Brandon Knight.

This.:rockon:
Unfortunately some fans stick to 1 or 2 teams and stop caring. Most call them homers who don't care about the true essence of competitiveness in sports.

[tamaraw08]

Sixer fan here.

The Sixers were stuck in mediocrity for some time, being a borderline playoff team every year since Iverson left. Barely missing the playoffs or sure fire 1st round exit. With that kind of roster, the 76ers didn't have a budget to sign superstars, build a championship team. They were stuck with to-be-developed borderline stars -if lucky- in the draft.

Personally I was very, very tired of watching my team stuck forever in the purgatory. I can't say I'm pissed off at them intentionally blowing the house in hopes for an actual future. I'm excited for my team for the 1st time in a decade.

I see where you are coming from. The system may be flawed, and teams like the Sixers are exploiting it (I believe that's why the system was established though). It may be sad to watch a team intentionally built to lose for a season. But if you are going to criticize, you better have a better solution for the problem.

Because if you were a fan of the Sixers or another rebuilding team you probably would understand the current process we are going through. The Sixers are trying very, very hard and sacrificing a lot in order to be competitive in the future.

So you either shut the f*ck up and stick to rooting for your team, or at least prove that you have a point by proposing a better alternative instead of just ranting like a little baby.

sure fire first round exit? They went to the 2nd round a few years back:pimp: .
If you think the Sixers do not have the budget to sign players , well so do 15 other teams:mad:
And how many young college players do you actually need, 4? 5? 8?
How sure are you that they just don't want to be the Clippers of the 90's. Just begging for welfare, asking the league for helpf for the next 5-7 years and NOT SPENDING anything?
You really think having 2 seven footers comprising 2/3rds of your best players would ensure success? When was the last time this twin tower concept worked at the current rules/Euro Style ball anyway?:confusedshrug:
What is the solution? Give a maximum of 3 or 4 lottery picks within 7 or 8 yrs or so every team. You also investigate then interrogate and ask the team why the hell are they NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY to be atleast competitive:rant .

[DirkNowitzki41]

I don't know how effective this would be, but I always liked the idea of all lottery teams having an equal chance at getting the #1 pick.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I don't know how effective this would be, but I always liked the idea of all lottery teams having an equal chance at getting the #1 pick.

And then everyone after them still has a lottery or it's just luck of the draw where you end up?

It's tough to curtail tanking because as long as a franchise player is available teams will do everything in their power to get them. That's the thing about the NBA, a single player can literally turn around an entire franchise. It is worth it to everyone involved to try their hardest to get that player, that involves tanking.

Any system that tries to be fair has faults. Equal shot is good. But then after that what? In a deep draft there will still be a lot of interest in in the picks after 1. It would seem unfair to reward a team that just barely missed the playoffs with the number two pick when a really poor team picks last in the lottery.

The current system obviously encourages tanking. I liked the wheel idea but it had a couple major problems imo: It favored big markets because players could just wait, and it meant the league could not expand or contract.

So it's difficult. I think the first thing to do before the system is scrapped is try to find a way to punish repeat offenders. The salary floor was a decent idea, but the way it was executed is not good. All they have to do is split the remaining money among rostered players? Who wouldn't do that to tank and stay flexible? An owner like Donald Sterling back in the day, who showed no interest in improving the team, should be hit with fines. I kind of like the idea Bill Simmons has of not allowing a team to have X amount of top picks in Y amount of years.

Maybe some sap, or cash incentive for making the playoffs? Isk, but we can't blame the tankers themselves. The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle. So it makes total sense for a team like Philly to let the bottom fall out for a bit and draft elite prospects. I would be pissed if my team fought tooth and nail to build a team that would just scrape into the playoffs and then get bounced, like the Bucks have been doing (lucky for them it failed hard last year).

[DirkNowitzki41]

And then everyone after them still has a lottery or it's just luck of the draw where you end up?

It's tough to curtail tanking because as long as a franchise player is available teams will do everything in their power to get them. That's the thing about the NBA, a single player can literally turn around an entire franchise. It is worth it to everyone involved to try their hardest to get that player, that involves tanking.

Any system that tries to be fair has faults. Equal shot is good. But then after that what? In a deep draft there will still be a lot of interest in in the picks after 1. It would seem unfair to reward a team that just barely missed the playoffs with the number two pick when a really poor team picks last in the lottery.

The current system obviously encourages tanking. I liked the wheel idea but it had a couple major problems imo: It favored big markets because players could just wait, and it meant the league could not expand or contract.

So it's difficult. I think the first thing to do before the system is scrapped is try to find a way to punish repeat offenders. The salary floor was a decent idea, but the way it was executed is not good. All they have to do is split the remaining money among rostered players? Who wouldn't do that to tank and stay flexible? An owner like Donald Sterling back in the day, who showed no interest in improving the team, should be hit with fines. I kind of like the idea Bill Simmons has of not allowing a team to have X amount of top picks in Y amount of years.

Maybe some sap, or cash incentive for making the playoffs? Isk, but we can't blame the tankers themselves. The worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle. So it makes total sense for a team like Philly to let the bottom fall out for a bit and draft elite prospects. I would be pissed if my team fought tooth and nail to build a team that would just scrape into the playoffs and then get bounced, like the Bucks have been doing (lucky for them it failed hard last year).


Luck of the draw, so all lottery teams can fall anywhere. So worst record, lets say, Philly, could get #13 while PHX who misses the playoffs by a game gets #1.

But yeah, I agree with you, it has some flaws as pretty much all proposals . One reason why I like it being equal is because it allows mediocre teams with not much flexibility to rebuild/retool without scraping their whole team apart. I guess the downside is that its possible for teams who just plain suck, to stay that way for years and years, like a Bucks team who somehow gets the 12th pick despite beinh a bottom 3 team.

I do like that Bill Simmons idea though. It would force bad teams to do better once they reach that certain amount of top picks

[Sakkreth]

nuggets too

Still finishing above the lakers most likely :confusedshrug:

[DukeDelonte13]

the fact that the cavs last year won the lottery with the 1.7% chance to win it while Philly got 3rd means nothing to NBA fans for whatever reason.

History has shown tanking guarantees teams nothing with the lottery system in place.

Tanking is a risk. Not only do you risk getting burned in the lottery but there is a risk of alienating the fan base and costing the team money. It's not a given like it is in the NFL. Teams can choose to take the risk or not.

I think there are far more teams that try to make the playoffs and lose than try to blatantly tank.

[tamaraw08]

Luck of the draw, so all lottery teams can fall anywhere. So worst record, lets say, Philly, could get #13 while PHX who misses the playoffs by a game gets #1.

But yeah, I agree with you, it has some flaws as pretty much all proposals . One reason why I like it being equal is because it allows mediocre teams with not much flexibility to rebuild/retool without scraping their whole team apart. I guess the downside is that its possible for teams who just plain suck, to stay that way for years and years, like a Bucks team who somehow gets the 12th pick despite beinh a bottom 3 team.

I do like that Bill Simmons idea though. It would force bad teams to do better once they reach that certain amount of top picks

Great exchange of intellectual ideas bet you and TimmyD.:bowdown:

Bottomline for me is this welfare system has to change. I understand that at some point, teams would have to have some bad years and then rebuild but it should not be intensional esp for 3-4 yrs straight. Again, Im asking the question, how sure are we that these teams are really doing this just to get better in the future and no simply just to save money? Sixers could have hired a veteran PG to tutor MCW but they didn't.
I have more respect for teams like Detroit for trying to improve the team but hiring a very good coach and enlisting good players. No, they will not win the ring this season but they didn't simply fold the tent and say, oh well, it's a lost cause, lets just suck and pray that we get the top 2 college players next summer.
Same with Miami who lost the best player in the league. They could have given up and let Bosh go. Save 35 Mil this year and wink at their fans and say "don't worry, we have a plan, lets take 5 steps back to take 2 steps forward in 4 yrs". :hammerhead:
These teams are in a way putting a product for us fans enjoy. Besides, when I think of teams who acquired those dominant young players.
San Antonio didn't have the worst record and actually was ravaged by injuries when they had Duncan.
Chicago got Rose from a trade with another team, same with the Lakers with KObe etc etc. These teams didn't intentionally tank and let their fans suffer.

[Yankstar]

League needs a system to punish repeat tankers. If you are in the bottom 8 for lets say 3 years, for every year you get 10% less chance for the top pick, diminishing for further picks. So teams at least need to get decent every few years instead of these "tank until you draft the next Lebron" philosophies these teams have.