Sam Jones... how come no one talks about this guy?

[oarabbus]

Obviously many people know who he is, but he's never mentioned amongst the greats. He was on Russell's crazy stacked Celtics, but the guy has 10 rings. Ten. Second all time. I don't care if his team was stacked, no one else in the history of basketball has 10 rings. 5x allstar too.



Career stats of 18/5/2.5... in 27 minutes. For context, Ginobili is a career 15/4/4 guy in 27 minutes, and equal career stats as James Worthy... in 5 less minutes.

His best season was 26/5/3 and steals and blocks were unrecorded back then. He's definitely in the tier of guys like Worthy, McHale, Havlicek but you cant find footage of the guy and no one gives him up.

Again his team was stacked and the NBA was small, but you'd think a guy who put up 26ppg and can wear a ring on each finger would be talked about more. 10 rings is no joke.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/sam-jones/sam-jones-shooting.jpg

[Akrazotile]

Because nobody saw the team play and when that happens people just simplify the analysis and give all the credit to one guy. Thus, Russell gets all the credit.


Hell, most idiots on ESPN and these boards give all the credit to one guy even when they just watched the game with their own two eyes the day before. People are just dumb. :confusedshrug:

[PHILA]

Russell Rules: 11 Lessons on Leadership From the Twentieth Century's Greatest Winner - Bill Russell

http://i.imgur.com/QSjFsWZ.png

[TheReal Kendall]

Great read.

Dude was a beast for me on 2k14 Myteam.

[oarabbus]

Russell Rules: 11 Lessons on Leadership From the Twentieth Century's Greatest Winner - Bill Russell

http://i.imgur.com/QSjFsWZ.png

The OG Worthy-Ginobili hybrid type player :bowdown:

[WillC]

The OG Worthy-Ginobili hybrid type player :bowdown:

James Worthy is a terrible comparison for Sam Jones.

Jones' game revolved around his exceptional bank shot. He was lethal from mid-range. He was a constant threat due to his ability to use screens and make cuts. Think of Ray Allen but less of a long-range bomber (since the three-point shot didn't exist back then, it made more sense to shoot from mid-range).

To answer the original question, the reason nobody talks about Sam Jones is because:

1) He (and the rest of the Celtics) played in Russell's shadow, which is a crying shame because they were a phenomenal team so it is ironic that one man stands out above the rest.

2) Jones' minutes were limited and, therefore, his numbers aren't as eye-popping as, say, Jerry West or Oscar Robertson. John Havlicek once said "he was a great shooter, a great defensive player and he had great speed. There wasn't anything Sam Jones couldn't do. If he had played with a team other than the Celtics, he'd be held in the same esteem as Jerry West or Oscar Robertson"

3) There is relatively little footage of Jones. Again, it's easier to find footage of West and Robertson.

That said, Sam Jones is definitely up there with the all-time great shooting guards. Jordan, Kobe and West are the obvious top 3. Wade is alone at #4. You can then take your pick from the likes of Sam Jones, George Gervin, Allen Iverson and Clyde Drexler. So Jones is a top 8 shooting guard, in my opinion. After that, you have guys like Bill Sharman, Dennis Johnson, Hal Greer, Reggie Miller, etc.

[senelcoolidge]

Great player. I've told the story before, but my father met Sam Jones back in the late 60's..during the time when the Celtics were having their dynasty run. My father was impressed. Jones was holding a clinic at the University. My father got to play him a little and watch him. Jones could not miss a shot. Good guy too.

[La Frescobaldi]

me talking about 24 in one of my very first posts:


Russell talking about 24.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY4EhnRgBWU

6 season ending shots, make it or the season was over!! As far as I know - I have no stats at all to back it up - but I believe Sam Jones is the most clutch shooter in NBA history.

Sam is the most underrated player BY FAR ever in the NBA. This guy was not a Robert Horry/ Derrick Fisher type pressure shooter with some solid skills on the court.

If I was to roll out the all-time guards, Sam Jones would be right up there in the top 5.

Everybody annoints Russell as the guy on those Celtics teams and no question it was his team. But that Celtics offense ran through Sam Jones from the time he stepped up after Cousy & Sharman left until right down to the very end of his career in 68-69 when Havlicek took over.

Oscar & Jerry West get the accolades as the premier guards of that era. But Sam was right there.

It's hard to describe exactly the total and complete difference between the game back then and what it has changed into over the years, but here's a example I can remember from about 66 or 67. The Celtics ran a non-stop fast break for 7 minutes straight against the Knicks. If the Knicks scored the Celtics did not stop running even during the inbounds pass. That game was pure transition basketball in the second quarter for 7 minutes without a timeout. I'll never forget Sam Jones racing on the court lathered like the sleekest quarterhorse you ever saw. Just completely dominated the Knicks with marathon endurance.

Sheer windsprint fleet ball winging from hand to hand not touching the court not a single dribble from Russell's hand to Sam's non-stop fullspeed layup

It was the most incredible performance of athletic endurance by any team I ever saw and every bit of it led by Sam Jones.

when a timeout finally was called it was like you woke up from a trance. The crowd was in a absolute frenzy of excitement

That was pure sport

[DatAsh]

Adding to what PHILA said

[smoovegittar]

It's players like Sam Jones who allow Celtic fans to hold their heads high. They've had so many good players over their history. But just the fact that there is so little footage around of these players would be a main reason they aren't spoken of.

[russwest0]

Russell Rules: 11 Lessons on Leadership From the Twentieth Century's Greatest Winner - Bill Russell

http://i.imgur.com/QSjFsWZ.png

dude idk this guy might be the fukking GOAT man

[SouBeachTalents]

1) He (and the rest of the Celtics) played in Russell's shadow, which is a crying shame because they were a phenomenal team so it is ironic that one man stands out above the rest.


When one player wins 5 MVP's, and had they handed out the awards back then, won something like 10 DPOY and a majority of the teams Finals MVP's, plus is almost unanimously regarded as a top 5 GOAT, you really don't see why that player would stand out among the rest of his teammates? Jordan, Bird, and Duncan also had great teammates, yet they also stand out among their teammates as well. That's what happens when you're SIGNIFICANTLY better/more accomplished than your teammates, not that surprising really

[WillC]

When one player wins 5 MVP's, and had they handed out the awards back then, won something like 10 DPOY and a majority of the teams Finals MVP's, plus is almost unanimously regarded as a top 5 GOAT, you really don't see why that player would stand out among the rest of his teammates? Jordan, Bird, and Duncan also had great teammates, yet they also stand out among their teammates as well. That's what happens when you're SIGNIFICANTLY better/more accomplished than your teammates, not that surprising really

Of course I see why he stands out :facepalm

If you didn't understand my post, then your loss. It was quite clear.

[oarabbus]

James Worthy is a terrible comparison for Sam Jones.

Jones' game revolved around his exceptional bank shot. He was lethal from mid-range. He was a constant threat due to his ability to use screens and make cuts. Think of Ray Allen but less of a long-range bomber (since the three-point shot didn't exist back then, it made more sense to shoot from mid-range).

To answer the original question, the reason nobody talks about Sam Jones is because:

1) He (and the rest of the Celtics) played in Russell's shadow, which is a crying shame because they were a phenomenal team so it is ironic that one man stands out above the rest.

2) Jones' minutes were limited and, therefore, his numbers aren't as eye-popping as, say, Jerry West or Oscar Robertson. John Havlicek once said "he was a great shooter, a great defensive player and he had great speed. There wasn't anything Sam Jones couldn't do. If he had played with a team other than the Celtics, he'd be held in the same esteem as Jerry West or Oscar Robertson"

3) There is relatively little footage of Jones. Again, it's easier to find footage of West and Robertson.

That said, Sam Jones is definitely up there with the all-time great shooting guards. Jordan, Kobe and West are the obvious top 3. Wade is alone at #4. You can then take your pick from the likes of Sam Jones, George Gervin, Allen Iverson and Clyde Drexler. So Jones is a top 8 shooting guard, in my opinion. After that, you have guys like Bill Sharman, Dennis Johnson, Hal Greer, Reggie Miller, etc.


I didn't mean playstyle, more the "can be the best guy on the court any given night" and "does major damage in minor minutes" traits that I see in Ginobili in Worthy appear to have originally been present in this guy



When one player wins 5 MVP's, and had they handed out the awards back then, won something like 10 DPOY and a majority of the teams Finals MVP's, plus is almost unanimously regarded as a top 5 GOAT, you really don't see why that player would stand out among the rest of his teammates? Jordan, Bird, and Duncan also had great teammates, yet they also stand out among their teammates as well. That's what happens when you're SIGNIFICANTLY better/more accomplished than your teammates, not that surprising really

10 rings man, 10 rings. You can't say shit to ten. And a 26ppg guy at his peak.

[DatAsh]

When one player wins 5 MVP's, and had they handed out the awards back then, won something like 10 DPOY and a majority of the teams Finals MVP's, plus is almost unanimously regarded as a top 5 GOAT, you really don't see why that player would stand out among the rest of his teammates? Jordan, Bird, and Duncan also had great teammates, yet they also stand out among their teammates as well. That's what happens when you're SIGNIFICANTLY better/more accomplished than your teammates, not that surprising really
Russell himself said that without Jones he'd have won "maybe" 3 rings

[Lebron23]

The innovator of the midrange jumper. Sam was the clutchest Celtics player on that team. He could have been a 3x finals mvp.

[Lebron23]

Obviously many people know who he is, but he's never mentioned amongst the greats. He was on Russell's crazy stacked Celtics, but the guy has 10 rings. Ten. Second all time. I don't care if his team was stacked, no one else in the history of basketball has 10 rings. 5x allstar too.



Career stats of 18/5/2.5... in 27 minutes. For context, Ginobili is a career 15/4/4 guy in 27 minutes, and equal career stats as James Worthy... in 5 less minutes.

His best season was 26/5/3 and steals and blocks were unrecorded back then. He's definitely in the tier of guys like Worthy, McHale, Havlicek but you cant find footage of the guy and no one gives him up.

Again his team was stacked and the NBA was small, but you'd think a guy who put up 26ppg and can wear a ring on each finger would be talked about more. 10 rings is no joke.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/sam-jones/sam-jones-shooting.jpg

One of the posters here uploaded some of his highlights his youtube account is WiltChamberlainarchives.

[iamgine]

Because nobody cares about sam jones

[Soundwave]

Because being a "unappreciated so-called secondary player" is only a big deal if you played with Michael Jordan and only then does it need to be pointed out 282827287838232782373872398728973 million times that yes, Jordan actually needed teammates that could play to win in a 5-on-5 sport.

No one cares that Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe had tons of help over the course of their careers.

It's only an issue when Jordan dares to have some help.

[FKAri]

When one player wins 5 MVP's, and had they handed out the awards back then, won something like 10 DPOY and a majority of the teams Finals MVP's, plus is almost unanimously regarded as a top 5 GOAT, you really don't see why that player would stand out among the rest of his teammates? Jordan, Bird, and Duncan also had great teammates, yet they also stand out among their teammates as well. That's what happens when you're SIGNIFICANTLY better/more accomplished than your teammates, not that surprising really

Except Bill Russell didn't stand out from his teammates like those guys did. And yet Russell is given as great or greater share of the credit than some of those guys for his team's success. 60s Celtics were more like the 04 Pistons than the 90's Bulls. It was much more of a team effort than the modern narrative suggests.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Because being a "unappreciated so-called secondary player" is only a big deal if you played with Michael Jordan and only then does it need to be pointed out 282827287838232782373872398728973 million times that yes, Jordan actually needed teammates that could play to win in a 5-on-5 sport.

No one cares that Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe had tons of help over the course of their careers.

It's only an issue when Jordan dares to have some help.

Because those other guys aren't presented to us as unbeatable monsters that could do it all alone. Action-reaction.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Because those other guys aren't presented to us as unbeatable monsters that could do it all alone. Action-reaction.

But this is expected. The more successful you are less clever your stans and haters are by average.

[Soundwave]

Because those other guys aren't presented to us as unbeatable monsters that could do it all alone. Action-reaction.

Right so, it's basically jealousy that one player gets attention kind of like the fat girl that hates on the good looking girl in high school.

And every player has ridiculous hyperbole about them ... Wilt Chamberlain apparently was the fastest, strongest, human being ever who could beat Muhammad Ali in boxing, win the 100M sprint in the Olympics, win Mr. Universe for bodybuilding. Before Magic no one taller than 6'2 apparently ever thought about passing the ball. etc. etc. etc.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Right so, it's basically jealousy that one player gets attention kind of like the fat girl that hates on the good looking girl in high school.

And every player has ridiculous hyperbole about them ... Wilt Chamberlain apparently was the fastest, strongest, human being ever who could beat Muhammad Ali in boxing, win the 100M sprint in the Olympics, win Mr. Universe for bodybuilding. Before Magic no one taller than 6'2 apparently ever thought about passing the ball. etc. etc. etc.

Agreed.