How good a player is should only be judged by number of MVPs he has won.

[Dragic4Life]

The only individual accolade that matters.

Rings you can ride a better player to (therefore not winning FMVP). MVP > championships if we're talking strictly basketball abilities and skills.

So here's the ranking:

1. Kareem (6)
2. Russell (5)
3. MJ (5)
4. Lebron (4)
5. Wilt (4)

Players with 2 to 3 MVPs will fill up rest of the top 10.

Agree?

[TiagoSimoes]

Playoff basketball > Regular season

[SHAQisGOAT]

Yea... Have LeBron entering the league in 1980 and he sure as hell ain't winning 4 MVPs in 10 years, shit most likely not even 3 (even replacing him for Bird/Magic).

^ That small example tells you pretty much what I think about all of that.

[Dragic4Life]

Yea... Have LeBron entering the league in 1980 and he sure as hell ain't winning 4 MVPs in 10 years, shit most likely not even 3 (even replacing him for Bird/Magic).

^ That small example tells you pretty much what I think about all of that.
Clearly you're salty Shaq only has 1.

[fpliii]

Hakeem, KG, Shaq only have one MVP a piece and they're top 10.

MVP is dependent on competition. If you're competing with other GOAT candidates for MVPs you're not going to win as many as you would otherwise. For instance, move Kareem into today's league. He's not winning 6, and LeBron isn't winning 4. Does this make either guy a worse player? Not at all.

[Jameerthefear]

As long as Lebron is at the top of that list at the end of his career I'm good. He's the GOAT.

[HiphopRelated]

Nope, MVP is voted on, too much of that has to do with "narrative"

Steve Nash has 2 and was never a top 5 player in the league

[livingby3's]

inb4 Steve Nash.

Anyway, don't bite..

[SouBeachTalents]

Hakeem, KG, Shaq only have one MVP a piece and they're top 10.

MVP is dependent on competition. If you're competing with other GOAT candidates for MVPs you're not going to win as many as you would otherwise. For instance, move Kareem into today's league. He's not winning 6, and LeBron isn't winning 4. Does this make either guy a worse player? Not at all.

:biggums:

[ArbitraryWater]

Hakeem, KG, Shaq only have one MVP a piece and they're top 10.

MVP is dependent on competition. If you're competing with other GOAT candidates for MVPs you're not going to win as many as you would otherwise. For instance, move Kareem into today's league. He's not winning 6, and LeBron isn't winning 4. Does this make either guy a worse player? Not at all.

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

OP's top 10 of all time

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. LeBron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Moses
8. Duncan
9. Malone
10. Nash

[fpliii]

:biggums:
Just my opinion. :confusedshrug: He and KG were always put on that same level when they played together, and I don't think Garnett is worse in terms of actual on the court play. I do understand this is a minority opinion, though.

[Dragic4Life]

OP's top 10 of all time

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. LeBron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Moses
8. Duncan
9. Malone
10. Nash
Nothing wrong with this list. Why? Your favorite player isn't in it?

[russwest0]

Nothing wrong with this list. Why? Your favorite player isn't in it?

no jackass, guys like bill russell aren't in it and others are missing too.

this sport comes down to the bottom line: win championships. and at the end of whatever said day you want to focus on, having the media bestow some shitty MVP trophy upon you doesn't really mean shit. it only has the power the media gives to it and in essence, the media only has the power the fans give it.

so basically this award is only given value by jackasses like you trying to overhype a player who has yet to materialise greatness into things that truly ****ing MATTER to a team and unified team goals.

[fpliii]

OP's top 10 of all time

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. LeBron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Moses
8. Duncan
9. Malone
10. Nash
Russell won five MVPs though...

[SouBeachTalents]

Russell won five MVPs though...

Yep, just noticed that mistake as well

[T_L_P]

Hakeem, KG, Shaq only have one MVP a piece and they're top 10.

MVP is dependent on competition. If you're competing with other GOAT candidates for MVPs you're not going to win as many as you would otherwise. For instance, move Kareem into today's league. He's not winning 6, and LeBron isn't winning 4. Does this make either guy a worse player? Not at all.

KG is top 10?

[fpliii]

KG is top 10?
Don't have a GOAT list but if I did he would be on mine, yeah. I weigh defense and longevity more than most though, can understand that a lot of posters would disagree.

[ArbitraryWater]

Not too long ago the FMVP/Rings ratio was your criteria and you had Kareem outside the top 5 :lol

[T_L_P]

Don't have a GOAT list but if I did he would be on mine, yeah. I weigh defense and longevity more than most though, can understand that a lot of posters would disagree.

Nah, I kind of get it. I personally have KG around 13th forgetting accolades, so top 10 is understandable.

Anyway, to OP:

Nash > Shaq? Kobe = Shaq? Durant = Shaq? AI = Shaq?

The only accolade list I think works is rings+MVPs+Finals MVPs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Don't have a GOAT list but if I did he would be on mine, yeah. I weigh defense and longevity more than most though, can understand that a lot of posters would disagree.

That's pretty insane.. Who's supposed to get bumped?

MJ/Kareem/Wilt, Shaq, LeBron, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Russell...

:confusedshrug:

How many times was KG even a top 4 player in his career? 3 times?

Although you still rank him pretty high from 2005-2007 from what I've read..

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah, I kind of get it. I personally have KG around 13th forgetting accolades, so top 10 is understandable.

Anyway, to OP:

Nash > Shaq? Kobe = Shaq? Durant = Shaq? AI = Shaq?

The only accolade list I think works is rings+MVPs+Finals MVPs.

I'd add All-NBA teams, All-Defensive teams, and stats to that as well. I think if you combine ALL of those, you get a pretty good idea of how good a player was

[BuffaloBill]

OP's top 10 of all time

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. LeBron
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Moses
8. Duncan
9. Malone
10. Nash



Finally Nash getting some credit he deserves!!

:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

I'd add All-NBA teams, All-Defensive teams, and stats to that as well. I think if you combine ALL of those, you get a pretty good idea of how good a player was

stats aren't an accolade lmfaoo..

The main shit is: Rings, MVP's, FMVP's...

That's that shit right there. Obviously context applied to Rings.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The strongest predictor of MVP candidate status is team regular season win totals.

:confusedshrug:

[fpliii]

That's pretty insane.. Who's supposed to get bumped?

MJ/Kareem/Wilt, Shaq, LeBron, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, Russell...

:confusedshrug:

How many times was KG even a top 4 player in his career? 3 times?

Although you still rank him pretty high from 2005-2007 from what I've read..
The bolded. Seems insane, but that's my current take (though I think Bird has a case for GOAT offensive player and is an underrated defender; I'm not as high on pre-prime Magic). I know not many will agree, and I'm not suggesting that I'm necessarily correct (I also have him above LeBron, but he has quality defensive seasons, and there's no reason to believe his career will be ending in the near future).

I'm in the process of drastically changing how I evaluate players though. shutupandjam's analysis of J.E.'s 14 year RAPM data set made it appear that there are two classes of players: 1-3 and most 4s, and 5s + dominant defensive 4s. The first group has a tighter spread (smaller SD's) defensively and a bigger one offensively, the second group is the opposite (obviously the positional averages are different as well).

It actually might make more sense to rank these two groups of players separately. I'm going to play around with the dataset for myself and see what I can make of it.

[sportjames23]

As long as Lebron is at the top of that list at the end of his career I'm good. He's the GOAT.

There is you hope for this young fool. :facepalm

[smoovegittar]

Sort of like, a poster should be rated only by the amount of posts they enter. Right? Not. :facepalm

[Lebronxrings]

i agree. No bullsht, no argument, its mostly based on a players performance and nothing else.
MJ: 5 mvps
shaq: 1 mvp
Lebron: 4 mvp
Kobe: 1*mvp

[Lebronxrings]

Yea... Have LeBron entering the league in 1980 and he sure as hell ain't winning 4 MVPs in 10 years, shit most likely not even 3 (even replacing him for Bird/Magic).

^ That small example tells you pretty much what I think about all of that.
you're right, he would get around 7. In a non defense existent era, lebron would have a field day.

[bukowski81]

Yea, lets ignore the games that matter most to determine who is the best player, sounds smart

[Kblaze8855]

I sat here for 2-3 minutes trying to decide how to approach this fairly awful topic....explain the problem with that line of thinking...delete...close...ignore.....

Still torn.

Not like explaining the obvious issues would make a difference....

[GrapeApe]

i agree. No bullsht, no argument, its mostly based on a players performance and nothing else.
MJ: 5 mvps
shaq: 1 mvp
Lebron: 4 mvp
Kobe: 1*mvp

No, team performance is a huge factor. It also doesn't take into account post season play. Theoretically you could win 10 MVP's and never get past the first round.

[SpecialQue]

I sat here for 2-3 minutes trying to decide how to approach this fairly awful topic....explain the problem with that line of thinking...delete...close...ignore.....

Still torn.

Not like explaining the obvious issues would make a difference....

Other, less-deserving threads have been locked. At minimum this should be locked. It's not like OP doesn't have a history of creating atrocious topics just to troll.

[Beastmode88]

you're right, he would get around 7. In a non defense existent era, lebron would have a field day.

DAT DEFENSE DOE.
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Todays_No_Defense_Lack_of_Rim_eb5a1b1afe17e31ce272 eb4e3ae0f8e9.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paint_Congestion_in_Wilts_Era__e5cc5559f5ecbd15aef ec46a22dd4b99.gif