Who's the most overrated superstar champion of all time?

[Real14]

:confusedshrug: Do you know?

[KobesFinger]

Not Melo

[Kblaze8855]

I suspect I know who you would pick...not that you put much thought into it.

My answer would probably be Elvin Hayes if people still knew who he was....

But being so obscure to modern fans makes it hard for him to be overrated.

If anything....hes probably underrated even if he is the biggest asshole in NBA history.

There arent many legit superstars who won rings while being at the top of their game....who justify an overrated label.

Most are underrated id say because of this era of know nothing sports fans who think its a given that great players stack rings.

It takes too much to win one for me to start trying to bring down champs.

Quite a few people who never won strike me as overrated because of constant assumptions about how they could have won if such and such happened.

A lot of guys who never won just didnt have it in them to make it happen when the chance presented itself.

You got the job done....won it all as an elite player...

There isnt much anyone being fair can say.

The difference between doing it 3 times and 4-5 times is kinda....whatever. Once you win it all you prove you can be relied on to close the deal...the rest is largely circumstantial. The exact count has more to do with what is around you and how healthy everyone is.

The exception of course being Bill Russell...who we all know was chiseled from a block of pure victory by the basketball gods themselves.

[GrapeApe]

I suspect I know who you would pick...not that you put much thought into it.

My answer would probably be Elvin Hayes if people still knew who he was....

But being so obscure to modern fans makes it hard for him to be overrated.

If anything....hes probably underrated even if he is the biggest asshole in NBA history.

There arent many legit superstars who won rings while being at the top of their game....who justify an overrated label.

Most are underrated id say because of this era of know nothing sports fans who think its a given that great players stack rings.

It takes too much to win one for me to start trying to bring down champs.

Quite a few people who never won strike me as overrated because of constant assumptions about how they could have won if such and such happened.

A lot of guys who never won just didnt have it in them to make it happen when the chance presented itself.

You got the job done....won it all as an elite player...

There isnt much anyone being fair can say.

The difference between doing it 3 times and 4-5 times is kinda....whatever. Once you win it all you prove you can be relied on to close the deal...the rest is largely circumstantial. The exact count has more to do with what is around you and how healthy everyone is.

The exception of course being Bill Russell...who we all know was chiseled from a block of pure victory by the basketball gods themselves.

//End thread.

[SpecialQue]

Hakeem. His only titles came when Jordan took a break.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Top Five Individual Overrated Superstar Championships:

LeBron's 2013 (game 6 Ray Allen MIRACLE bail out)
Dirk's 2011 (LeBron's disappearing act, underrated Jet performance)
Kobe's 2000 (Clear sidekick)
Duncan's 1999 (Horrendous lockout season)
Hakeem's 1994 (Bulls w/ MJ kick their ass)

[Kblaze8855]

Hakeem. His only titles came when Jordan took a break.


His rings didnt fall off a truck into his lap. What separates him from a lot of people is when the chance came...he went and took it. Hes out there getting late steals....and title saving blocks to force game 7s. Hes out there outplaying the best players at his position night after night. Shaq....Drob...Ewing.

He knocks out a 61 win team in the first round.

He puts up like 33/11/5.

Hes scoring his ass off and also putting up 4 block 4 steals games...more in a single series than many HOF bigmen have in their careers(He had more of those games in the 94 WCF than Duncan has in his entire career).

Jordan hardly won every season he played...

Everyone who didnt have to go through him doesnt deserve an asterisk.

Not like Hakeem didnt take his team to the finals in 95 to setup the dream matchup. The Bulls just didnt have the frontcourt to get there.

Hakeem took those rings.

The only shot someone had to take one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3-64I6zp7k

Hakeem literally blocked it.

He had as much or more to do with his team winning in 94 than Jordan had to do with some of his....

[millwad]

Top Five Individual Overrated Superstar Championships:

LeBron's 2013 (game 6 Ray Allen MIRACLE bail out)
Dirk's 2011 (LeBron's disappearing act, underrated Jet performance)
Kobe's 2000 (Clear sidekick)
Duncan's 1999 (Horrendous lockout season)
Hakeem's 1994 (Bulls w/ MJ kick their ass)

Olajuwon is the only superstar who played against MJ for 10+ years while having a winning record against him.

[millwad]

Hakeem. His only titles came when Jordan took a break.

Olajuwon had a winning record against MJ and Jordan was back in '95, the Bulls lost to Magic, the same Magic team Olajuwon and the Rockets swept.

[Kblaze8855]

LeBron's 2013 (game 6 Ray Allen MIRACLE bail out)

He played better to win them the 2013 finals than he did in 2012.

He scored or assisted on every single made shot in the 4th...other than I believe a Wade layup and Allens jumper. And I think 3 of his assists were 3s....they needed every single thing he gave them to win that game. A couple late turnovers in a game they would have lost without him turning it on dont overshadow a great performance.

Then in game 7 he personally puts the spurs to bed with one of the best closeout finals games of all time...

Zero chance its remembered as anything but a great performance to get his team the ring.

There are a lot of role player jumpers to win/extend games/series that are otherwise lost and nobody gives a damn.

Sam Jones hit like 3....

[Jameerthefear]

Do you have to have two of your shitty agenda threads at the same time?

[sportjames23]

Olajuwon is the only superstar who played against MJ for 10+ years while having a winning record against him.


6 > 2

[sportjames23]

Olajuwon had a winning record against MJ and Jordan was back in '95, the Bulls lost to Magic, the same Magic team Olajuwon and the Rockets swept.


With that logic, IF Dream and crew had made it to the Finals in 97, all this foolish talk of Dream's Rockets being better than MJ's Bulls would have been squashed forever. Bulls > Jazz > Rockets.

[masonanddixon]

Lebron in 12-13 was a joke.
Kobe 09-10 was pretty bad as well.

[lilteapot]

Top Five Individual Overrated Superstar Championships:

LeBron's 2013 (game 6 Ray Allen MIRACLE bail out)
Dirk's 2011 (LeBron's disappearing act, underrated Jet performance)
Kobe's 2000 (Clear sidekick)
Duncan's 1999 (Horrendous lockout season)
Hakeem's 1994 (Bulls w/ MJ kick their ass)
Man, you are such a bad user.

[NumberSix]

Bill Russell by a lightyear.

[Lebronxrings]

im gonna get called out for this... but its kobe. The dude was terrible in his playoff runs, getting saved by shaq, gasol, fisher numerous times. With phil jackson at your helm it just shows you how great it was. Everyone hypes kobes performances as if he was super clutch and had one of the greatest performances ever. Truth is, he 2 ** fmvps, one of which was from gasol and another from a iffy reffereeing series. If he were a top 10 player llike many on this board think, he needs to show MUCH more.

[guy]

Not sure what the question is asking, but as far as players who get overrated the most in comparison to how great they actually are, its Kobe pretty easily. I would've also included Pippen, but no one ever says he's better then the likes of Hakeem, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Lebron due to the number of rings he has. They do that for Kobe though. I can't think of one player in history who's argument for his place in history relies so much on the amount of rings he has. I mean, some people in the media seriously thinks he's the 2nd greatest player ever because he has 5 rings, which includes a ring where he averaged 15 ppg and missed a game in the Finals.

[fpliii]

lmao @ Hakeem being mentioned in this thread

[Dr Hawk]

lmao @ Hakeem being mentioned in this thread

If anything he is underrated IMO.

He is the best two-way center of all time IMO plus insane peak.

[97 bulls]

Not sure what the question is asking, but as far as players who get overrated the most in comparison to how great they actually are, its Kobe pretty easily. I would've also included Pippen, but no one ever says he's better then the likes of Hakeem, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Lebron due to the number of rings he has. They do that for Kobe though. I can't think of one player in history who's argument for his place in history relies so much on the amount of rings he has. I mean, some people in the media seriously thinks he's the 2nd greatest player ever because he has 5 rings, which includes a ring where he averaged 15 ppg and missed a game in the Finals.
How is Pippen overrated as far as champions go in your opinion?

[Cold soul]

Not sure what the question is asking, but as far as players who get overrated the most in comparison to how great they actually are, its Kobe pretty easily. I would've also included Pippen, but no one ever says he's better then the likes of Hakeem, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Lebron due to the number of rings he has. They do that for Kobe though. I can't think of one player in history who's argument for his place in history relies so much on the amount of rings he has. I mean, some people in the media seriously thinks he's the 2nd greatest player ever because he has 5 rings, which includes a ring where he averaged 15 ppg and missed a game in the Finals.

I don't see the problem with Kobe. I think placing Kobe above Bird, Lebron, Duncan, and Shaq just based on accomplishments alone is fine if you think he's top 4 all-time than yes you're overrating him to a huge degree. As for question Bill Russell for me his numbers aren't crazy impressive compared to other HOF centers and his era only had like 8 or 9 teams in the league and played on loaded rosters people rank him so high due to 11 rings mostly.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Probably Kobe as per what guy stated

[Real14]

Probably Kobe as per what guy stated
How is kobe most overrated while lebron is not?:biggums:

[Cocaine80s]

How is kobe most overrated while lebron is not?:biggums:
enough with the agenda threads, jesus christ...

[Real14]

enough with the agenda threads, jesus christ...
What's your problem? You wanna come at me just because I questioned kuniva on Why he think kobe is the most overrated??:biggums:

[Magic 32]

He played better to win them the 2013 finals than he did in 2012.

He scored or assisted on every single made shot in the 4th...other than I believe a Wade layup and Allens jumper. And I think 3 of his assists were 3s....they needed every single thing he gave them to win that game. A couple late turnovers in a game they would have lost without him turning it on dont overshadow a great performance.




http://oi42.tinypic.com/i3uv6h.jpg
http://oi39.tinypic.com/2zize39.jpg
http://oi42.tinypic.com/1zyui37.jpg

[Cocaine80s]

What's your problem? You wanna come at me just because I questioned kuniva on Why he think kobe is the most overrated??:biggums:
we know this whole thread was made about Lebron :coleman:

Didnt you make a thread saying you were done talking shit?

[Real14]

we know this whole thread was made about Lebron :coleman:

Didnt you make a thread saying you were done talking shit?
You don't know that for sure. I guess you forgot about the thread I made apology to the mods which got deleted.

[fpliii]

coke - Don't hate on willds. He's the real deal. :rockon:

[Cocaine80s]

You don't know that for sure. I guess you forgot about the thread I made apology to the mods which got deleted.
why did you even bring up Lebron in this post then? :roll:


How is kobe most overrated while lebron is not?:biggums:

[Real14]

coke - Don't hate on willds. He's the real deal. :rockon:
Word:applause:

[Real14]

why did you even bring up Lebron in this post then? :roll:
Cuz lebron is definitely more overrated than kobe. I never said he was actually the most overrated tho.

[RRR3]

coke - Don't hate on willds. He's the real deal. :rockon:
He's a troll and a detriment to the board. He adds literally nothing.

[JT123]

im gonna get called out for this... but its kobe. The dude was terrible in his playoff runs, getting saved by shaq, gasol, fisher numerous times. With phil jackson at your helm it just shows you how great it was. Everyone hypes kobes performances as if he was super clutch and had one of the greatest performances ever. Truth is, he 2 ** fmvps, one of which was from gasol and another from a iffy reffereeing series. If he were a top 10 player llike many on this board think, he needs to show MUCH more.
/thread.

[Real14]

He's a troll and a detriment to the board. He adds literally nothing.
Hater alert

[guy]

I don't see the problem with Kobe. I think placing Kobe above Bird, Lebron, Duncan, and Shaq just based on accomplishments alone is fine if you think he's top 4 all-time than yes you're overrating him to a huge degree. As for question Bill Russell for me his numbers aren't crazy impressive compared to other HOF centers and his era only had like 8 or 9 teams in the league and played on loaded rosters people rank him so high due to 11 rings mostly.

His greatest accomplishment on paper is his 5 rings, yet he wasn't the biggest reason, purely just talking about individuals, for over half of those.

Kobe probably wasn't greater than of the players you mentioned peak-wise. If you want to make the argument that he trumps those guys because of his longevity, then fine. But basing it on his accomplishments, specifically his ring count, is ridiculous.

[guy]

How is Pippen overrated as far as champions go in your opinion?

The fact that a lot people think he's greater then certain players from his era and they cite the championship disparity as reason, ignoring that that has more to do with who we played with as opposed to him actually being better.

[JellyBean]

I don't think there are any overrated superstar champions.

[97 bulls]

The fact that a lot people think he's greater then certain players from his era and they cite the championship disparity as reason, ignoring that that has more to do with who we played with as opposed to him actually being better.
But who can you not say this of? No one has won on their own. You dont think Magic winning his titles has a lot to do with having Worthy and Jabbar? Look at the careers of Jordan, Shaq, and James before they either joined or got other great players around them. You think its a coincidence that Bryants team post Shaq and pre Gasol were going nowhere. We're talking about over two decades of losing here. Even losing as the favorite.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Olajuwon is the only superstar who played against MJ for 10+ years while having a winning record against him.
Regular season meetings at 2 games a piece for an entire season don't mean squat.

In a best of 7, weaknesses get exposed. Hakeem struggled in 7 games with the Knicks, who the MJ less Bulls took to 7 games. And if it wasn't for a an all-time terrible game from Starks, NYC would've potentially won the '94 Finals.

Houston was better the next season in 1995 when they got Drexler as supplemental superstar help. Jordan still in his prime on the '94 Bulls, w/ peak Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong along with Kukoc off thebench isn't losing to New York, or Houston.

In fact, that hypothetical '94 Bulls team could've been the '96 Bulls, with fresher legs, and the core all being at their prime or peak.

[houston]

I don't think there are any overrated superstar champions.


this true

[Real14]

this true
How?

[BIZARRO]

I would say Isaiah Thomas.

Now, before anyone goes off the handle, I actually think Isaiah is pretty underrated in NBA history. I have him as the 3rd best point ever (behind Magic and Oscar, and just ahead of Stockton).
So I think WAY highly of him.

I just think he is overrated when people refer to the Pistons as Isaiah's team. I watched every moment of those playoffs against the Celts and Bulls, and players like Dumars, Aguirre, AD, Rodman, Salley, Laimbeer, Buddha, made that a team. Taking account both ends of the floor, Joe D.'s value was pretty close to Zeke actually.
Whereas you could define the Jordan Bulls, Magic Lakers, and Bird Celtics, the Pistons were not defined by any one player, but rather defined by being a team.

So yes, Zeke to me IS underrated overall, but overrated as a superstar champion/member of a champion.

That being said, man did he have some sick moments in the Finals.

[houston]

How?


cause a player contribute to a championship by having huge impact can't be overrated superstar. Basketball still a team game Rings are earned not given.


Even I critize a player like Dirk but I still have to give that dude his respect cause he got it done in major way by being his team best player.:applause:

[DirkNowitzki41]

Michael Jordan. 1996.

[BIZARRO]

Michael Jordan. 1996.

Naw. Though he had a tough Finals series against The Glove (that was like his one off series in his whole career almost)...

He still averaged 31, 5, 4, and 2 during those playoffs, and his Win Shares were over 50% higher than the 2nd highest player in those playoffs, and just .1 off the highest of his career. That's almost unprecedented and amazing.

[JT123]

Michael Jordan. 1996.
If any version of Jordan is overrated it is 1998. He shot the ball like shit in those last 2 games, but thanks to tons of free throws and some other highly questionable calls in game 6, he got his sixth ring anyway. He also sucked in game 7 of the ECF, but got bailed out by Kukoc.

[houston]

I would say Isaiah Thomas.

Now, before anyone goes off the handle, I actually think Isaiah is pretty underrated in NBA history. I have him as the 3rd best point ever (behind Magic and Oscar, and just ahead of Stockton).
So I think WAY highly of him.

I just think he is overrated when people refer to the Pistons as Isaiah's team. I watched every moment of those playoffs against the Celts and Bulls, and players like Dumars, Aguirre, AD, Rodman, Salley, Laimbeer, Buddha, made that a team. Taking account both ends of the floor, Joe D.'s value was pretty close to Zeke actually.
Whereas you could define the Jordan Bulls, Magic Lakers, and Bird Celtics, the Pistons were not defined by any one player, but rather defined by being a team.

So yes, Zeke to me IS underrated overall, but overrated as a superstar champion/member of a champion.

That being said, man did he have some sick moments in the Finals.



Zeke was the team best player due to you know having the best accolades on the team. You have to remember the Pistons titles years they were more of a great defensive team with a deep bench rotation. Zeke adjusted his game for his team. That why he was merely all-star player those years. Early Pistons years they was run and gun like most teams in the defensive challenged 80's:oldlol:

I say Walt Frazier has a slight edge on Zeke due to him being bigger player he guarded 1 and 2 and he was clutch as hell. Zeke modeled his game off of Clyde. But those Pistons were Zeke team without shadow of a doubt.

[BIZARRO]

Zeke was the team best player due to you know having the best accolades on the team. You have to remember the Pistons titles years they were more of a great defensive team with a deep bench rotation. Zeke adjusted his game for his team. That why he was merely all-star player those years. Early Pistons years they was run and gun like most teams in the defensive challenged 80's:oldlol:

I say Walt Frazier has a slight edge on Zeke due to him being bigger player he guarded 1 and 2 and he was clutch as hell. Zeke modeled his game off of Clyde. But those Pistons were Zeke team without shadow of a doubt.

Love Walt Frazier, can see your point on that. I'd still take Zeke, but Walt was def. the man.
I do agree Zeke adjusted his game, but just my opinion, I don't think you can call the championship Pistons "Zeke's team". Too many other parts to that team that were strong, and he wasn't on the Mike/Magic/Larry level as well. It was more of a team to me than any one player. But we just agree to disagree I guess on this one.

[BIZARRO]

If any version of Jordan is overrated it is 1998. He shot the ball like shit in those last 2 games, but thanks to tons of free throws and some other highly questionable calls in game 6, he got his sixth ring anyway. He also sucked in game 7 of the ECF, but got bailed out by Kukoc.


Yeah, fair point, but 45 is 45 in a Finals close out game anyway you slice, and it is pretty awesome. :bowdown:

[houston]

Love Walt Frazier, can see your point on that. I'd still take Zeke, but Walt was def. the man.
I do agree Zeke adjusted his game, but just my opinion, I don't think you can call the championship Pistons "Zeke's team". Too many other parts to that team that were strong, and he wasn't on the Mike/Magic/Larry level as well. It was more of a team to me than any one player. But we just agree to disagree I guess on this one.


You judging him unfair. Zeke was still one of the best players of the 80's and was multi all-nba multi all-star performer. With your logic Wade ain't a great player cause he ain't on Kobe/Durant/Lebron level. Plus Magic/Jordan/Bird had Hof talent on those rosters lol.

[pauk]

Top Five Individual Overrated Superstar Championships:

LeBron's 2013 (game 6 Ray Allen MIRACLE bail out)


Stop being an idiot, that Ray Allen "miracle bail" was only a simple 3PT shot with 5 seconds to go.... which only tied the game.... then Tony Parker had all the chance & time in the world to hit a gamewinner and take a wild guess who stopped him from doing that? It then went to OT and take a wild guess who closed the game out?
It was then Game 7, where was Ray Allen's miracles there? Guess who closed it out?

The best player in the NBA carries his team to the NBA Finals with offensive/defensive gamewinning performances every single win to get there, 100++ games.... then a random guy hits a gametying shot with 5 sec. to go in the Finals (which isnt a gamewinner & a game which didnt win the championship there) doesnt mean a championship run is overrated..... you are just a insecure Jordan stan (dont know why, but you are).... speaking of MJ and roleplayers hitting the occasional gametying or even gamewinning shot.... ever heard about Steve Kerr? John Paxson? Bj Armstrong? Toni Kukoc? etc. There is lots of OVERRATED JORDAN CHAMPIONSHIPS with your logic..........

[3ball]

Lebron's 2014 Finals performance is vastly overrated - 28ppg.. no passing.. no defense.. no impact.. no positive impact on teammates (and quite possibly negative).

And he should have shot more.... In 21 out of the 24 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots - which means that the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would have done more, is wrong - 21 out of the last 24 did more.

[SouBeachTalents]

Well it certainly couldn't be any Knick from the past 40 years

[pauk]

Lebron's 2014 Finals performance is vastly overrated - 28ppg.. no passing.. no defense.. no impact.. no positive impact on teammates (and quite possibly negative).

And he should have shot more.... In 21 out of the 24 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots - which means that the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would have done more, is wrong - 21 out of the last 24 did more.

Seriously, you and Swish need stop being so insecure about him as Jordan stans..... Lebron is nowhere close to challenge Jordans accolades as we speak and i doubt he will end up with more rings/fmvps/mvps than him (well, maybe mvps).... calm down... enjoy what is infront of you, respect the game of basketball, stop living in the past.... relax...

[Warfan]

Lebron's 2014 Finals performance is vastly overrated - 28ppg.. no passing.. no defense.. no impact.. no positive impact on teammates (and quite possibly negative).

And he should have shot more.... In 21 out of the 24 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots - which means that the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would have done more, is wrong - 21 out of the last 24 did more.

I didn't realize the Heat won this season? Stop being such a dumbass, you're so crazily obsessed with this man. It's very pathetic.

[3ball]

Seriously, you and Swish need stop being so insecure about him as Jordan stans..... Lebron is nowhere close to challenge Jordans accolades as we speak and i doubt he will end up with more rings/fmvps/mvps than him (well, maybe mvps).... calm down... enjoy what is infront of you, respect the game of basketball, stop living in the past.... relax...
i feel it necessary to point out things that people who think/thought lebron was on jordan's level were not aware of.

[Milbuck]

i feel it necessary to point out things that people who think/thought lebron was on jordan's level were not aware of.
Literally no objective fan of the game on here thinks Lebron is as good or better than Jordan. That's a wack justification for your obsessive, agenda driven nonsense, and you know it.

[Element]

Lebron's 2014 Finals performance is vastly overrated - 28ppg.. no passing.. no defense.. no impact.. no positive impact on teammates (and quite possibly negative).

And he should have shot more.... In 21 out of the 24 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots - which means that the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would have done more, is wrong - 21 out of the last 24 did more.

LeBron was a champion this year? I thought the Spurs won :eek:





you need to lay off the MJ man :roll:

[3ball]

Lebron's 2014 Finals performance is vastly overrated - 28ppg.. no passing.. no defense.. no impact.. no positive impact on teammates (and quite possibly negative).

And he should have shot more.... In 21 out of the 24 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots - which means that the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would have done more, is wrong - 21 out of the last 24 did more.





LeBron was a champion this year? I thought the Spurs won :eek:


The point of the stat is to show that Lebron was longshot (3 in 24) to win a championship by taking that low a proportion of his team's shots...

it was a bad, longshot idea and a doomed system... :confusedshrug:

[c5terror]

Lebron.
Making him top 10 atg is already overatting him,
Lebron not better than Hakeem and pippen except for the ppg.

[T_L_P]

Only judging the ones I've seen:

02 Kobe -- inefficient, underwhelming defense, not even half as good as the previous run. And Skip Bayless said he may have been better than Shaq during that run. :roll:

05 Duncan -- incredible defense, did play on two bum ankles, but struggled all around offensively. Thankfully Manu stepped up that year. Then again, people seem to put this run down a lot as of late. He did lead the league in RAPM too. Fck.

[ArbitraryWater]

Top Five Individual Overrated Superstar Championships:

LeBron's 2013 (game 6 Ray Allen MIRACLE bail out)
Dirk's 2011 (LeBron's disappearing act, underrated Jet performance)
Kobe's 2000 (Clear sidekick)
Duncan's 1999 (Horrendous lockout season)
Hakeem's 1994 (Bulls w/ MJ kick their ass)

That's an unexpected retarded post of yours... :wtf:

The disrespect for LeBron and Dirk... wow

Especially mentioning 2000 Kobe :facepalm

That wasn't close to a superstar / 1st guy title

He gets just the right amount of credit he deserves for that performance... Until we have Kobe stans running around screaming " PHYVE RANGZ!!" as if they're all created equally..

[ArbitraryWater]

coke - Don't hate on willds. He's the real deal. :rockon:

He's a horrible poster goddamn what's wrong man :facepalm

Why do you defend these clowns?

[Magic 32]

Only judging the ones I've seen:

02 Kobe -- inefficient, underwhelming defense, not even half as good as the previous run. And Skip Bayless said he may have been better than Shaq during that run. :roll:



45% inefficient???

http://s21.postimg.org/7dzkhuzrb/fdgfdg.png

[T_L_P]

I swear it's only the Kobe stans who cherry pick games to make a point.

.511 TS% for the 02 Playoffs - .434 FG%.

Yes, inefficient is exactly how it could be described.

[Mr Exlax]

I find it mindblowing that some of you cats are saying Hakeem in this thread. We pretty much had our way with the Bulls. 94 and 95 I'd still say the Rockets would beat the Bulls.

[Magic 32]

I swear it's only the Kobe stans who cherry pick games to make a point.

.511 TS% for the 02 Playoffs - .434 FG%.

Yes, inefficient is exactly how it could be described.

Or you painting a picture of an entire playoffs run by including two blowout wins in the first round.

Just look at the games. Don't listing to the haters people.

[Jacks3]

Incredibly inefficient? Hyperbole much?

League average TS/ORTG during the post-season was 51.2%/103 ORTG.

Kobe was at 51.1% TS/106 ORTG.

So his TS% was right around league average and his ORTG was solidly above.

While putting up 26.6/5.8/4.6/1.5/0.9.

What's so overrated about that run? How much people even talk about Kobe's 02 run? It's not like anybody thinks it's a all-time great run like they do with 01/08/09/2010.

:confusedshrug:

[T_L_P]

Or you painting a picture of an entire playoffs run by including two blowout wins in the first round.

Just look at the games. Don't listing to the haters people.

You omitted more than 10% of Kobe's Playoff games to prove that he wasn't inefficient.

.511 TS% over the whole Playoff run is inefficient, is it not? A superstar posting the league average is not a good thing, you know?

Also, what do the games being blowouts have to do with anything? As if that justifies Kobe shooting like shit. :roll:

Again, make your case for the entire Playoff run -- that's what I and all other posters are discussing here.

[T_L_P]

I decided to leave out Kobe's game 2 and game 4 against the Nets, since they were blowouts. I also left out Kobe's first two against Portland because they were blowouts.

Kobe only shot .438 FG% for the Playoff run. Is that better?

[Kblaze8855]

Or you painting a picture of an entire playoffs run by including two blowout wins in the first round.

The word "entire" kinda insists that everything be included...doesnt it?

[Magic 32]

I decided to leave out Kobe's game 2 and game 4 against the Nets, since they were blowouts. I also left out Kobe's first two against Portland because they were blowouts.

Kobe only shot .438 FG% for the Playoff run. Is that better?

First round > Finals

uhhh no

Your box gets smaller and smaller.

After the first two games of the first round (an easy sweep), Kobe had a perfectly normal playoff run for 17 straight games.

And he was awesome in the clutch (unlike Duncan in 2005).

[ArbitraryWater]

Damn, he used the WHOLE Playoff run to talk about Kobe's run? :wtf:

What's he thinking? He's just trying to paint a false Picture...

Obviously we exclude 2 bad shooting games Kobe had smh... Kobe haters :rolleyes:

[red1]

magic 32 going full retard :oldlol:

[Magic 32]

What's he thinking? He's just trying to paint a false Picture...


I know.

Kobe had 2 bad games to start and then played terrific .

Yet the idi*t has the gall to generalize the entire playoff run.


And Skip Bayless said he may have been better than Shaq during that run. :roll:


Ask Timmy.

G1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJDIU3U8iGs&t=7m28s

G3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HgzXLQCTM

G4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

G5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC8Z9FOZtA0
Marv Albert - The new Mr. Clutch for the Lakers...Kobe Bryant"

Spurs killer!!!

[SamuraiSWISH]

That's an unexpected retarded post of yours... :wtf:

The disrespect for LeBron and Dirk... wow
You mean because of percieved oversensitivity or disrespect for LeBron?

The Spurs begged him to shoot wide open jumpers the entire series, he never took advantage of it. Wade won them game 4 in San Antonio, when LeBron padded numbers in garbage time against reserves. He had no good game in that series until game 7.

There was that burst in the 3rd quarter of game 6, then fail in the 4th, but that's it. And if it wasn't for an odd bounce of the ball, and a miracle shot ... plus a Duncan / Pop / Manu massive choke job the Heat lose in 6 at home.

Yes, he finally took advantage of the lack of respect for his jumper in game 7, when Pop stubbornly refused to let anyone guard James. And he hit wide open jumper after jumper. Bron should've made them pay for that in game 1, and the entire series would've been different if he asserted attacking aggressiveness.

Dirk? His performance up to the Finals is impressive. His actual Finals is vastly overrated. He was never the best player in the series, that was Wade until the hip flexor. And then it was really the motivation from Jason Terry to torch LeBron and co. off the pull up jumper that pushed Dallas to the next level in that Finals. Jason carried the Mavericks the entire first half of that game 6 clincher in Miami when Dirk was playing like absolute garbage


Especially mentioning 2000 Kobe :facepalm

That wasn't close to a superstar / 1st guy title

He gets just the right amount of credit he deserves for that performance... Until we have Kobe stans running around screaming " PHYVE RANGZ!!" as if they're all created equally..
But people mention Kobe's 5 rings all the time. That's why I mentioned it. He was a clear cut 2nd best player / sidekick that year. So he should only have 4 rings when being argued with the all time best players and their championship results. Kobe doesn't win that 2000 ring anywhere else other than LA riding Shaq's coattails.

[BIZARRO]

You judging him unfair. Zeke was still one of the best players of the 80's and was multi all-nba multi all-star performer. With your logic Wade ain't a great player cause he ain't on Kobe/Durant/Lebron level. Plus Magic/Jordan/Bird had Hof talent on those rosters lol.


C'mon man, did you read my post? I said I have Zeke as the 3rd best point guard of all time. I think that's judging him pretty fair.

All I'm saying is that The Bad Boy Pistons weren't "his" team the way the Bulls were Mike's, Celtics Larry's, etc., and there were players on that team of almost equal impact, but it is often misconstrued by some as his team. That's all I'm saying.

[houston]

C'mon man, did you read my post? I said I have Zeke as the 3rd best point guard of all time. I think that's judging him pretty fair.

All I'm saying is that The Bad Boy Pistons weren't "his" team the way the Bulls were Mike's, Celtics Larry's, etc., and there were players on that team of almost equal impact, but it is often misconstrued by some as his team. That's all I'm saying.


But the pistons was his team though he was their best player. It just weird saying a player is top 5 all-time great but when he won championships he had equal support:confusedshrug: Zeke was still playing at a high level. So when Magic came to the Lakers his rookie year was it his team or Kareem stuff like that. I always go by accolades and if that player still playing at a high level. Kinda like Tony Parker and Tim Duncan dynamic. Even though Tim the better player due to his accomplishents but essence it's Tony Parker team since he the only Spur been playing at a high level these past few years.

Just confusing on your end but hey that your opinion.

[ArbitraryWater]

You mean because of percieved oversensitivity or disrespect for LeBron?

The Spurs begged him to shoot wide open jumpers the entire series, he never took advantage of it. Wade won them game 4 in San Antonio, when LeBron padded numbers in garbage time against reserves. He had no good game in that series until game 7.

There was that burst in the 3rd quarter of game 6, then fail in the 4th, but that's it. And if it wasn't for an odd bounce of the ball, and a miracle shot ... plus a Duncan / Pop / Manu massive choke job the Heat lose in 6 at home.

Yes, he finally took advantage of the lack of respect for his jumper in game 7, when Pop stubbornly refused to let anyone guard James. And he hit wide open jumper after jumper. Bron should've made them pay for that in game 1, and the entire series would've been different if he asserted attacking aggressiveness.

Dirk? His performance up to the Finals is impressive. His actual Finals is vastly overrated. He was never the best player in the series, that was Wade until the hip flexor. And then it was really the motivation from Jason Terry to torch LeBron and co. off the pull up jumper that pushed Dallas to the next level in that Finals. Jason carried the Mavericks the entire first half of that game 6 clincher in Miami when Dirk was playing like absolute garbage


But people mention Kobe's 5 rings all the time. That's why I mentioned it. He was a clear cut 2nd best player / sidekick that year. So he should only have 4 rings when being argued with the all time best players and their championship results. Kobe doesn't win that 2000 ring anywhere else other than LA riding Shaq's coattails.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/1549ef9f321d6a245b4abec88e25b121/tumblr_moz0rx8lzE1sqv808o1_250.gif

[Paul George 24]

:confusedshrug: Do you know?

lebron

[HOoopCityJones]

You mean because of percieved oversensitivity or disrespect for LeBron?

The Spurs begged him to shoot wide open jumpers the entire series, he never took advantage of it. Wade won them game 4 in San Antonio, when LeBron padded numbers in garbage time against reserves. He had no good game in that series until game 7.

There was that burst in the 3rd quarter of game 6, then fail in the 4th, but that's it. And if it wasn't for an odd bounce of the ball, and a miracle shot ... plus a Duncan / Pop / Manu massive choke job the Heat lose in 6 at home.

Yes, he finally took advantage of the lack of respect for his jumper in game 7, when Pop stubbornly refused to let anyone guard James. And he hit wide open jumper after jumper. Bron should've made them pay for that in game 1, and the entire series would've been different if he asserted attacking aggressiveness.

Dirk? His performance up to the Finals is impressive. His actual Finals is vastly overrated. He was never the best player in the series, that was Wade until the hip flexor. And then it was really the motivation from Jason Terry to torch LeBron and co. off the pull up jumper that pushed Dallas to the next level in that Finals. Jason carried the Mavericks the entire first half of that game 6 clincher in Miami when Dirk was playing like absolute garbage


But people mention Kobe's 5 rings all the time. That's why I mentioned it. He was a clear cut 2nd best player / sidekick that year. So he should only have 4 rings when being argued with the all time best players and their championship results. Kobe doesn't win that 2000 ring anywhere else other than LA riding Shaq's coattails.

Neither was Shaq if he wasn't playing next to Kobe.

[rmt]

Or you painting a picture of an entire playoffs run by including two blowout wins in the first round.


You must have a different definition from the rest of the world about what the word "entire" means. Hint: don't use the word "entire" if you're excluding any game(s). Only Kobe stans exclude games or seasons when defending him. Everybody else get all their games and seasons counted.