Question on Dirk

[Nowitness]

Has there ever been another player who is top 4/5 at their position who was the worse or second worse defender on the starting lineup when they won?

[fpliii]

Magic?

[Nowitness]

Magic?

Prolly.

[pastis]

Dirk def was fvcking good. Chandlers role was way overrated. everyone knows this.
nice troloololololo guy. reported

[Nowitness]

Dirk def was fvcking good. Chandlers role was way overrated. everyone knows this.
nice troloololololo guy. reported

Explain how Dirk played better defense than either Chandler, Marion or Kidd?

[Pointguard]

Amare

Mellow tho Mellow was can occasionally dig down.

I believe Arenas was there at one point.
Barkley a few times

Magic

Bird wasn't a better defender than Parrish, McHale, or Dennis Johnson no matter how good his back was.

Nash is probably there.

That's off the top of my head.

[Nowitness]

I meant all time top 5 at position. Otherwise there are tons of names.

[TheReal Kendall]

Is Dirk really that bad at defense????

When I watch him it doesn't seem like he gets killed on defense.

Also what about James Harden?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Yea, Magic in some years.

Doc in 1983? :confusedshrug: Shows you how great that team was though.
(edit: slipped my mind that Bobby Jones was the 6th man at that point, so Toney and Iavaroni are the worst 2)






Bird wasn't a better defender than Parrish, McHale, or Dennis Johnson no matter how good his back was.



At their best (defensively), it's tough to say who was the better defender between Bird and Parish (one 'r'), overall... I'd still would've given it to Larry (as most probably would), and he maintained his level into the mid-80's, as Robert was getting "worse".

Bird was the most important defensive player on the 1981 championship squad, also... McHale was a rookie who wasn't playing much, Parish developed into a pretty good defensive player with Fitch (he already had it in him but was more of "only a shot-blocker" before) but he wasn't even playing 30 MPG (regular-season or playoffs) while Bird was at 40.
You could even argue 1984 too.

DJ was past his peak when he joined the Celtics, and while he was a better m2m defender than Bird (was still one of the best in the league at his position), Larry was a more impactful team defender (ofc Bird was "almost" a big and Johnson a guard), and most will say that team defense > m2m defense. Dennis was still great though, so I'm not clearly putting Bird over him... and, even, in 1981 DJ should've gotten DPOY, "anchoring" the best defense in the league as a guard.

Bird was also the one leading the team (and even league) in DWS and DRtg, while he was (considerably) healthy... That only tells so much ofc though.

[Miss Bella]

Maybe Chauncey Billups? Don't know if he was top 5 PG 05 but he was the worst defender on the Pistons championship team, on the other hand they had three great defenders and RIP was also a solid defender.


Amare

Mellow tho Mellow was can occasionally dig down.

I believe Arenas was there at one point.
Barkley a few times

Magic

Bird wasn't a better defender than Parrish, McHale, or Dennis Johnson no matter how good his back was.

Nash is probably there.

That's off the top of my head.

Melo, Amar'e, Arenas, Barkley and Nash has never won. Unless I misunderstood the question that was asked.

[T_L_P]

Parker in 07 if we're saying he was top 5 PG?

[DirkNowitzki41]

Is Dirk really that bad at defense????

When I watch him it doesn't seem like he gets killed on defense.

Also what about James Harden?

he hasn't been 'bad' since the Nellie days. dirk isn't a great defender but hes smart when it comes to team D. I would just consider him average. he can hold his own against post guys like Aldridge and gasol, and is solid at team D.

im not saying hes great but he certainly isn't the liability people make him out to be.

[Pointguard]

Yea, Magic in some years.

Doc in 1983? :confusedshrug: Shows you how great that team was though.
(edit: slipped my mind that Bobby Jones was the 6th man at that point, so Toney and Iavaroni are the worst 2)


At their best (defensively), it's tough to say who was the better defender between Bird and Parish (one 'r'), overall... I'd still would've given it to Larry (as most probably would), and he maintained his level into the mid-80's, as Robert was getting "worse".

Bird was the most important defensive player on the 1981 championship squad, also... McHale was a rookie who wasn't playing much, Parish developed into a pretty good defensive player with Fitch (he already had it in him but was more of "only a shot-blocker" before) but he wasn't even playing 30 MPG (regular-season or playoffs) while Bird was at 40.
You could even argue 1984 too.

DJ was past his peak when he joined the Celtics, and while he was a better m2m defender than Bird (was still one of the best in the league at his position), Larry was a more impactful team defender (ofc Bird was "almost" a big and Johnson a guard), and most will say that team defense > m2m defense. Dennis was still great though, so I'm not clearly putting Bird over him... and, even, in 1981 DJ should've gotten DPOY, "anchoring" the best defense in the league as a guard.

Bird was also the one leading the team (and even league) in DWS and DRtg, while he was (considerably) healthy... That only tells so much ofc though.

As Miss Bella pointed out we missed the part where the OP said they won it all. So it would be only for '84 and '86 would be the only applicable years for Bird in this case as in '81 I think he was in the top three - I actually thought Maxwell was a better defender. Can't say I can recall it with expertise, but I definitely thought there were three better defenders on those teams???