the overlooked leadership of Kobe Bryant - actually making your teammates better

[STATUTORY]

[QUOTE]

[SugarHill]

Working his magic by telling dude that he isn't fit to speak to him until he racks up some accolades?

[Prometheus]

Kobe molding Lin and working his magic the way he did with players like Smush, Sasha, Luke walton, etc, turning them into legitimate NBA players. I'm looking for Lin to propel to top 10 PG this season under Kobe's tutelage.

This is what people should talk about when they through around phrases like "making teammates better". stop conflating that concept with assist totals because its something else entirely.

So let me get this straight... you are trying to convince people that Kobe is a great mentor who makes his teammates better, and you are using these players as evidence of that?

[Levity]

im really interestd to see how he rubs off on wes johnson this season(pretty sure hes taken him under his wing in practice and the two constantly run drills together). i see the two of them having a great connection/pairing this year and will really play well off each other. and good god, does wes need it.

[STATUTORY]

So let me get this straight... you are trying to convince people that Kobe is a great mentor who makes his teammates better, and you are using these players as evidence of that?
Those names are just partial list of players who had their best years playing with Kobe and struggled to even stay in the league without Kobe

look at Odom or Gasol for what Kobe is able to do with talented but underachieving players.

[Smoke117]

Kobe molding Lin and working his magic the way he did with players like Smush, Sasha, Luke walton, etc, turning them into legitimate NBA players. I'm looking for Lin to propel to top 10 PG this season under Kobe's tutelage.

This is what people should talk about when they through around phrases like "making teammates better". stop conflating that concept with assist totals because its something else entirely.

If you say so....:roll: :roll: :roll:

[STATUTORY]

im really interestd to see how he rubs off on wes johnson this season(pretty sure hes taken him under his wing in practice and the two constantly run drills together). i see the two of them having a great connection/pairing this year and will really play well off each other. and good god, does wes need it.
I see Wes Johnson blossoming into that two way wing role ala Paul George cerca fall 2013

[Heavincent]

So let me get this straight... you are trying to convince people that Kobe is a great mentor who makes his teammates better, and you are using these players as evidence of that?

Kobe won two rings with Luke and Sasha as regular rotation players, so yeah. He obviously does make his teammates better, like any all time great.

[qrich]

So let me get this straight... you are trying to convince people that Kobe is a great mentor who makes his teammates better, and you are using these players as evidence of that?

Yup, I'm surprised stats weren't brought up as well, though, they'll be easily used the other way around.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe won two rings with Luke and Sasha as regular rotation players, so yeah. He obviously does make his teammates better, like any all time great.

exactly this..

Kobe won 2 rings with Luke Walton being the 2nd guy off the bench ffs

[ImKobe]

Those names are just partial list of players who had their best years playing with Kobe and struggled to even stay in the league without Kobe

look at Odom or Gasol for what Kobe is able to do with talented but underachieving players.

no doubt :bowdown:

Lakers trade Odom - never the same
Lakers trade Bynum - from all-star starter to not playing one game in Philly (bowling accident? :kobe:) to playing average in Cleveland
Kobe plays his heart out in 2013, carries the team to the Playoffs and goes down - historically swept and embarrassed against the Spurs in the POs
Kobe tries to come back, gets injured in 2013-14 season - worst Lakers record since the 70s :facepalm

How you gonna tell me Kobe don't make teams/teammates better, when the proof is there? He made guys careers. Luke, Sasha, Farmar, Fisher, Odom, Gasol and Bynum should forever be grateful for what KB did for them. You honestly think Derek Fisher would have been a starter on any other contender for his career? Dude was a horrible finisher and a medicore passer, who's only great skill was hitting the 3. How long did he manage to stay alive in this league?

[Kidbasketball20]

Kobe molding Lin and working his magic the way he did with players like Smush, Sasha, Luke walton, etc, turning them into legitimate NBA players. I'm looking for Lin to propel to top 10 PG this season under Kobe's tutelage.

This is what people should talk about when they through around phrases like "making teammates better". stop conflating that concept with assist totals because its something else entirely.

Amen. People laughed when I said Lin will be a top 5 PG, but the sky is the limit with the GOAT Mentor Kobe and Lin finally having a decent role on a team.

[Milbuck]

Amen. People laughed when I said Lin will be a top 5 PG
And it's still laughable.

[STATUTORY]

no doubt :bowdown:

Lakers trade Odom - never the same
Lakers trade Bynum - from all-star starter to not playing one game in Philly (bowling accident? :kobe:) to playing average in Cleveland
Kobe plays his heart out in 2013, carries the team to the Playoffs and goes down - historically swept and embarrassed against the Spurs in the POs
Kobe tries to come back, gets injured in 2013-14 season - worst Lakers record since the 70s :facepalm

How you gonna tell me Kobe don't make teams/teammates better, when the proof is there? He made guys careers. Luke, Sasha, Farmar, Fisher, Odom, Gasol and Bynum should forever be grateful for what KB did for them. You honestly think Derek Fisher would have been a starter on any other contender for his career? Dude was a horrible finisher and a medicore passer, who's only great skill was hitting the 3. How long did he manage to stay alive in this league?

I get misty eyed when Odom's name gets brought up. With Kobe he was a multiple time champion and celebrity husband. As soon as he left Kobe he went from the candy man to a crack fiend

[Kidbasketball20]

And it's still laughable.


The only laughable thing is a "Bucks Dynasty" :facepalm :facepalm :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[riseagainst]

I get misty eyed when Odom's name gets brought up. With Kobe he was a multiple time champion and celebrity husband. As soon as he left Kobe he went from the candy man to a crack fiend


:roll:

[RidonKs]

kobe's leadership is probably overlooked/underrated by most non-fans of his

and it's improved quite dramatically year by year since 08. but the reason for that isn't because he's an incredible leader now, it's because he was such an awful leader for so long. an awkward egocentric borderline sociopathic leader. lol

he does lead well by example. but that is really only a very small part of leadership, and he's not much better at it than lebron or duncan or dirk or paul.

[STATUTORY]

he does lead well by example. but that is really only a very small part of leadership, and he's not much better at it than lebron or duncan or dirk or paul.

Bron imparting knowledge on his teammates and leading by example.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YODg65nll_o/SciXfLS9V0I/AAAAAAABjd8/WGoPcVuKfKc/s800/lebron_james_nba_090319_cle-vs-por-03.jpg

[Hey Yo]

exactly this..

Kobe won 2 rings with Luke Walton being the 2nd guy off the bench ffs
In the 2009-10 playoffs, Walton avg. 6mpg for 1ppg in 16 games. Yeah, he sure made Walton better. :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

In the 2009-10 playoffs, Walton avg. 6mpg for 1ppg in 16 games. Yeah, he sure made Walton better. :facepalm

In 2009 Walton was the 2nd man off the bench in the playoffs

In 2010 Brown was the 2nd man off the bench.

So Kobe took 2 scrubs and made them key role players on championship teams.

Last I checked Brown can't even find consistent work in the nba..

[ArbitraryWater]

Question for Laker fans:

Would y'all rather Kobe put up gaudy offensive numbers while playing no D, or play D while suffering a bit on O?

[JT123]

Kobe won two rings with Luke and Sasha as regular rotation players, so yeah. He obviously does make his teammates better, like any all time great.
:facepalm You clearly don't understand what "making teammates better" means. If said teammates fall off a cliff the minute they leave your side, you didn't make them better. If they started their careers as scrubs, then had elite careers after leaving your side, you have made them better. Luke and Sasha were clearly nothing more than products of the system they played in.

[ArbitraryWater]

In 2009 Walton was the 2nd man off the bench in the playoffs

In 2010 Brown was the 2nd man off the bench.

So Kobe took 2 scrubs and made them key role players on championship teams.

Last I checked Brown can't even find consistent work in the nba..

All that means is that the role players after Odom/Gasol/Bynum/Fisher/Artest were nothing special....


You can't have everything...

You want to tell us that Kobe made shit players who struggle to be in the NBA BETTER, and they still weren't good statistically, but KOBE MADE THEM KEY players...

[dyna]

exactly this..

Kobe won 2 rings with Luke Walton being the 2nd guy off the bench ffs

Phil Jackson??:confusedshrug:

Kobe is a great teacher of the game, but not a great leader..

[RidonKs]

Bron imparting knowledge on his teammates and leading by example.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YODg65nll_o/SciXfLS9V0I/AAAAAAABjd8/WGoPcVuKfKc/s800/lebron_james_nba_090319_cle-vs-por-03.jpg
:rolleyes:


btw luke walton before he fked up his back was a really good offensive player. his defense was obviously pathetic but his smarts didn't fall far from the tree. solid post player, good touch around the bucket, great iq in an extremely difficult system, amazing passer.

i doubt kobe had much to do with his development as a player though.

[Artillery]

Those names are just partial list of players who had their best years playing with Kobe and struggled to even stay in the league without Kobe

look at Odom or Gasol for what Kobe is able to do with talented but underachieving players.

Kobe didn't make either player better. Phil did. Pau and Odom's decline coincides with Phil retiring.

[20Four]

The only laughable thing is a "Bucks Dynasty" :facepalm :facepalm :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://i.minus.com/ivPexV7uccwJN.gif
http://i.minus.com/iG3d1LiG3W4mq.gif

[Nash]

yes there is a way to see if somebody makes another player better or not. just see what happens to his fg%. The star either makes the game easier for his teammates or not.

[bluechox2]

its about time kobe understood the concept of team and not i

[tpols]

kobe's leadership is probably overlooked/underrated by most non-fans of his

and it's improved quite dramatically year by year since 08. but the reason for that isn't because he's an incredible leader now, it's because he was such an awful leader for so long. an awkward egocentric borderline sociopathic leader. lol

he does lead well by example. but that is really only a very small part of leadership, and he's not much better at it than lebron or duncan or dirk or paul.
LeBron and dirk dominate with something others don't have.. One is a freakish athlete can use his body to finish over and over.. and the other exploits a combo of height advantage and shooting ability.(sort of like Durant too).

Kobe's just an average nba athlete physically nowadays.. he can get you 25 on pure moves/skill/craftiness and thus has more things he can teach for players that don't have a crazy physical advantages.

[TheMarkMadsen]

All that means is that the role players after Odom/Gasol/Bynum/Fisher/Artest were nothing special....


You can't have everything...

You want to tell us that Kobe made shit players who struggle to be in the NBA BETTER, and they still weren't good statistically, but KOBE MADE THEM KEY players...

Fisher and Bynum weren't anything during those runs.. Those teams were all Kobe/Pau/Odom.

And yes playing with Kobe made both Walton & Brown better, The only time brown looked like he deserved to be in the nba was when he was on the lakers.

Kobe makes it easier on his teammates, they don't have to dramatically change their game to succeed on a Kobe led team.

Just look at Pau Gasol in 08 as an example of how easy Kobe makes the game for his teammates.

In 08 Pau played 39 games for Memphis, averaged 18.9 with 9 boards on 50%. He was taking 14 FGA per game...

Gets traded to LA, plays 27 games.. Averages 18.8 with 8 rebounds per game on 59%.. On 12 FGA per game

The next year he averages 18.9 on 56% (career high)

Kobe made the game so much easier for Gasol without having to sacrifice Gasols stats.

Kobe is so underrated when it comes to keeping his players involved/ engaged in the games.

[ArbitraryWater]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)

[QUOTE]

[RidonKs]

LeBron and dirk dominate with something others don't have.. One is a freakish athlete can use his body to finish over and over.. and the other exploits a combo of height advantage and shooting ability.(sort of like Durant too).

Kobe's just an average nba athlete physically nowadays.. he can get you 25 on pure moves/skill/craftiness and thus has more things he can teach for players that don't have a crazy physical advantages.
oh im just talking about leadership man, not individual contributions. though you're right. kobe bryant has done as much (career-wise) with less (physically) as anybody in the history of the league i would say.

[RidonKs]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)
thats a really interesting quote, thanks for posting.

[Magic 32]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kerrer.jpg

[JT123]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)
/thread

[tpols]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)
Kobe takes it too far sometimes apparently:lol

He's probably much better in practice especially npwadays.. back then he was so hungry to win without shaq I assume.. pressure was getting to him as they were getting bullied.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335534

Kobes one of the best leaders in NBA history

[G0ATbe]

GOAT gonna GOAT:pimp: .

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)
I hope kobe still sends phil a Xmas card every year.
He probably saved him a few locker room beatings from his own teammates.

[STATUTORY]

Curt Schilling (Baseball player) who sat court side on Kobe: (2008 Finals Game 2)
didn't that fool file for bankruptcy recently?

terrible judgement of finances terrible judgement of leadership