better finisher around the rim, MJ or Bron?

[STATUTORY]

continuing the trend of these MJ bron comparisons

[NBAplayoffs2001]

continuing the trend of these MJ bron comparisons

MJ, he was going into the paint against beastly hall of famers. Whose LeBron's toughest opponent down low? Joakim Noah (a very solid player but wouldn't have been an all star or a MVP candidate in the 1990s with that inconsistent offensive output). I still love Joakim Noah and he is my favorite C in the league right now but seriously the lack of bigs in todays league defensively is disturbing. Thank you David Stern for that 3 second rule :coleman:

[Dr Hawk]

IMO Lebron is a better at the rim finisher than Jordan.

[Prometheus]

Okay all these comparisons are getting annoying, but this one is a no-brainer. MJ > LBJ at finishing around the rim BY FAR. Don't even get it twisted - this one is NOT CLOSE. Jordan >>>>>>>>


Says the 12 year old female? Just let the big boys talk k? You're probably not even old enough to watch PRIME jordan so go grab rope and hang yourself

:biggums: dude... chill out. You just told a guy to commit suicide because of a silly opinion. What is wrong with you?

[WindmiLL]

Probably Jordan




:biggums: dude... chill out. You just told a guy to commit suicide because of a silly opinion. What is wrong with you?


Midget complex

[STATUTORY]

Okay all these comparisons are getting annoying, but this one is a no-brainer. MJ > LBJ at finishing around the rim BY FAR. Don't even get it twisted - this one is NOT CLOSE. Jordan >>>>>>>>



:biggums: dude... chill out. You just told a guy to commit suicide because of a silly opinion. What is wrong with you?
Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk

[Dr Hawk]

Says the 12 year old female? Just let the big boys talk k? You're probably not even old enough to watch PRIME jordan so go grab rope and hang yourself

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sure internet tough boy

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk

Well you can also blame today's league. Often times, stars and superstars can throw themselves in the paint and just get a ton of contact and it will be a foul. David Stern honestly ruined the NBA with all these rule changes. Yes he globalized the game and made a huge market out of it but a lot of his rules that were set in the early 2000s ruined the game of basketball. I can't blame LJ for taking advantage of a clearly biased league for wing players.

[WindmiLL]

Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk

You're way off with this one. Do you even watch Lebron?

[Smoke117]

Says the 12 year old female? Just let the big boys talk k? You're probably not even old enough to watch PRIME jordan so go grab rope and hang yourself

Woah...what a cnut.

[MiseryCityTexas]

MJ was better. Mj was still dunking on people much taller than him even when he was in his 30s. Lebron just be dunking on players much smaller. Havent seen Lebron dunk on anybody taller since 2006 when he dunked on Tim Duncan

[Megabox!]

Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk
What? LBJ is a fantastic finisher in traffic. He's either going to get fouled, make the basket, or possibly both

[STATUTORY]

You're way off with this one. Do you even watch Lebron?

i watch bron almost obsessively, check the av

even his highlight videos are the exact same dunks in open court on repeat

[Dro]

Is this a serious question? Like, is this real life? Hell, there's other players I would mention in comparison to MJ in this category and even they don't come close. Hell Kobe is a better finisher at the rim than Lebron.

Ill give you just one example, guys nowadays will walk tight rope along the baseline, go under the basket and come out on the other side because there's no room to get a shot off. MJ would put up a reverse with either hand on either side of the basket, no problem......

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Is this a serious question? Like, is this real life? Hell, there's other players I would mention in comparison to MJ in this category and even they don't come close. Hell Kobe is a better finisher at the rim than Lebron.

Ill give you just one example, guys nowadays will walk tight rope along the baseline, go under the basket and come out on the other side because there's no room to get a shot off. MJ would put up a reverse with either hand on either side of the basket, no problem......

Watching MJ 3rd NBA finals shows his ease to get to the basket. He was destroying the Suns with great moves to the paint.

[WindmiLL]

Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk

You don't watch him enough apparently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYi3FH41TsY

[STATUTORY]

You don't watch him enough apparently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYi3FH41TsY
wow fast break with one slow white guy in front

any baseline moves?

[sdot_thadon]

I'd say they are pretty close. Mj was masterful at hanging just long enough for the defender to be on their way down, adjust and finish. Dunked on tons of guys, tons doesn't even do it justice lol. Finished baskets with more finesse than almost anyone ever. Had tremendous body control in the air, Lebron does as well but to a lesser extent. Was much more of a beautiful finisher than Lebron.

Lebron on the other hand is one of the more powerful finishers ever, taking all sorts of contact and still amazingly getting attempts up and often converting them. He also finishes with either hand effectively. He doesn't dunk on guys as much, but I'd also chalk it up a bit to era. Mj didn't have as many guys lining up to take charges for the majority of his career.....


That said Lebron is a far less beautiful but just as effective finisher I'd say. I'd love to see some actual percentages for Mj around the basket. You could go either way and I wouldn't disagree much.

[Mass Debator]

Lebron is probably more effective when he does go inside. He picks his moments.

Jordan is more versatile at what he can do at the rim so he is pretty much unstoppable at any given moment.

I don't know the actual stats but this is like a 69% finisher vs a 65% finisher. Bottom line is give me MJ because he can dictate what he wants to do and finish at a high clip.

[mehyaM24]

can go either way - however, i'd take lebron if the game is on the line because of his strength and superior athleticism. you can knock jordan on his ass; the opposite goes for lebron.

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/aecd1ae80afe43c370373ea68b30122d.gif


how is it that you guys pay no attention to differences in era, and how the paint in today's game has been completely cleared of defenders by 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds?

[navy]

Is this a serious question? Like, is this real life? Hell, there's other players I would mention in comparison to MJ in this category and even they don't come close. Hell Kobe is a better finisher at the rim than Lebron.

Ill give you just one example, guys nowadays will walk tight rope along the baseline, go under the basket and come out on the other side because there's no room to get a shot off. MJ would put up a reverse with either hand on either side of the basket, no problem......
:biggums:

Lebron James is the literally one of the best if not the best all time at finishing at the rim. Volume and efficiency. It really isnt even close compared to other perimeter players. And I want someone to prove me otherwise. The only people with comparable rim numbers to Lebron James are Charles Barkley, Shaq, and mabye other centers or big power fowards like Malone.

Kobe Bryant? :facepalm

http://static.basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/grant_r_LeBron_ShotChart.jpg

LeBron James (2013-14) *Including Playoffs

335/437 FG (76.7%), 4.51 Attempts Per Game



Charles Barkley (84 Game Sample)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=312709

467/574 FG (81.4%), 6.83 Attempts Per Game



Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) *Transition data unavailable

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...one-mode=basic

571/763 FG (74.8%), 9.66 Attempts Per Game

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/3a7a050794721d43f1760418138735e5.gif

[Dro]

:biggums:

Lebron James is the literally one of the best if not the best all time at finishing at the rim. Volume and efficiency. It really isnt even close compared to other perimeter players. And I want someone to prove me otherwise. The only people with comparable rim numbers to Lebron James are Charles Barkley, Shaq, and mabye other centers or big power fowards like Malone.

Kobe Bryant? :facepalm

http://static.basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/grant_r_LeBron_ShotChart.jpg

LeBron James (2013-14) *Including Playoffs

335/437 FG (76.7%), 4.51 Attempts Per Game



Charles Barkley (84 Game Sample)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=312709

467/574 FG (81.4%), 6.83 Attempts Per Game



Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) *Transition data unavailable

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...one-mode=basic

571/763 FG (74.8%), 9.66 Attempts Per Game

Yes, I feel Kobe is a better finisher. Lebron finishes well because of his power and strength. But the ability to finish in traffic in creative ways while 2-3 defenders going for the block? I'm taking Kobe...Lebron goes through people and has a bit of finesse. Kobe is more Jordanesque and can finish up, over, AND around people and he does with either hand also, and IMO better than Lebron. And at this point I expect you to basically disagree with any and every point I make......I have never seen a thread or a topic where you ever agree with me....But anyway, thats' besides the point I guess......

[navy]

Lebron is probably more effective when he does go inside. He picks his moments.

Jordan is more versatile at what he can do at the rim so he is pretty much unstoppable at any given moment.

I don't know the actual stats but this is like a 69% finisher vs a 65% finisher. Bottom line is give me MJ because he can dictate what he wants to do and finish at a high clip.
Lebron is a .726% finisher for his career. I dont have Jordan's numbers.

[navy]

Yes, I feel Kobe is a better finisher. Lebron finishes well because of his power and strength. But the ability to finish in traffic in creative ways while 2-3 defenders going for the block? I'm taking Kobe...Lebron goes through people and has a bit of finesse. Kobe is more Jordanesque and can finish up, over, AND around people and he does with either hand also, and IMO better than Lebron. And at this point I expect you to basically disagree with any and every point I make......I have never seen a thread or a topic where you ever agree with me....But anyway, thats' besides the point I guess......
You are just moving the goal post. Lebron finishes well because of power and strength? Lol so? He finishes more at the rim than Kobe at a much higher percentage. Why do you think they have such a massive difference in field goal percentages?

Who is more likely to get to the rim to score ? Lebron.
Who is more likely to convert when actually at the rim? Lebron.

Kobe? :biggums:

Wade is a better finisher than Kobe.

Let me get some numbers.

Just as I thought.

From 0-3 feet
Lebron .726
Kobe .635
Wade .660

Lebron > Wade > Kobe

[Trollsmasher]

finishing - dunking

- Jordan stans

[3ball]

.
Lets act like the two GIF's below show the same paint environment.


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/aecd1ae80afe43c370373ea68b30122d.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/61d58f40c5cf8604037d2faf4fa1c7f5.gif

[3ball]

check out the wall of defenders - laimbeer, rodman and salley all in a row

[3ball]

Lebron is a .726% finisher for his career. I dont have Jordan's numbers.


One can only assume they are higher, given how much better Jordan was at overpowering defenders at the rim and how much more aggressive he was going at defenders.



GIF's of 105 Different Chest-to-Chest Posters by MJ


Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797)
Random Posters 1 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508118&postcount=237)
Random Posters 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512996&postcount=255)
Random Posters 3 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10487292&postcount=48)
Random Posters 4 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10494322&postcount=198)
Random Posters 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10513143&postcount=256)
Random Posters 6 (for 6) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86)
Old-Man Chest-to-Chest Posters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512074&postcount=27)
Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395)
Various Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40)
Top 15 Hanging Jumpshots by MJ (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321)

[WindmiLL]

Yes, I feel Kobe is a better finisher. Lebron finishes well because of his power and strength. But the ability to finish in traffic in creative ways while 2-3 defenders going for the block? I'm taking Kobe...Lebron goes through people and has a bit of finesse. Kobe is more Jordanesque and can finish up, over, AND around people and he does with either hand also, and IMO better than Lebron. And at this point I expect you to basically disagree with any and every point I make......I have never seen a thread or a topic where you ever agree with me....But anyway, thats' besides the point I guess......


The title is who is the better finisher around the rim, not who is more flashier/creative/aesthetically pleasing finisher around the rim.

I think that is the main reason in so many arguments when people are comparing Lebron and Kobe. Yea Kobe's game is insanely beautifull to watch and he really moves so fluidly with the ball and when he's scoring. On the other hand Lebron is more robotic, not as aesthetically pleasing to watch, just brute force.

But at the end of the day what matters is who is more efficient when putting the ball through the net.That's usually meant as ''who is better''. Otherwise I can pick many proffesional horse players over NBA player because they are more creative and pleasing to watch. But it doesn't work that way.

[andgar923]

continuing the trend of these MJ bron comparisons

I can see a legit argument being made as far as who the better passer is in Bron's favor.

I didn't argue on the better 3pt shooter because well... stats say Bron is.

But MJ is hands down the superior finisher. There shouldn't be any argument here, unless one's a Bron fanboy.

[navy]

I can see a legit argument being made as far as who the better passer is in Bron's favor.

I didn't argue on the better 3pt shooter because well... stats say Bron is.

But MJ is hands down the superior finisher. There shouldn't be any argument here, unless one's a Bron fanboy.

Based on what? They are comparable at least.

In MJ's peak season 3 seasons statistically 89-90 to the 91-92 season, (only 126 out of 243 games only data I can find) he finished at a .743 clip at the rim. In Lebron's peak 3 seasons he finished at a .776 clip. Cant locate the number of attempts for Jordan at the moment. He had more dunks, but I suspect less shots at the rim.

[Dro]

The title is who is the better finisher around the rim, not who is more flashier/creative/aesthetically pleasing finisher around the rim.

I think that is the main reason in so many arguments when people are comparing Lebron and Kobe. Yea Kobe's game is insanely beautifull to watch and he really moves so fluidly with the ball and when he's scoring. On the other hand Lebron is more robotic, not as aesthetically pleasing to watch, just brute force.

But at the end of the day what matters is who is more efficient when putting the ball through the net.That's usually meant as ''who is better''. Otherwise I can pick many proffesional horse players over NBA player because they are more creative and pleasing to watch. But it doesn't work that way.
That's your opinion. I look at skill. To me, power and strength has nothing to do with skill. When I'm comparing them as finishers, I'm looking who has the most skill to finish shots in traffic if they did not have superior physical advantages over their opponent. So I say Kobe and Jordan are superior finishers to Lebron. Neither of them have a hug advantage over their opponents like Lebron does. Yet they are both still fantastic finishers. That is my criteria, in this case I don't care about stats. In that case, Shaq is a better finisher than both of them. Statistically he is. But when I'm comparing player vs. player in various categories, I'm looking at skill and I think Kobe is a better finisher than Lebron and I don't think either can sniff Jordan.....

I don't see Lebron doing sh*t like this

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/mjbquX.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/mjbquX)

And that's not that great but catching the ball and rising up quickly in traffic with no running start, I don't see Lebron doing stuff like this.....

[Element]

as someone else said, while going to the rim, Michael can dictate what he wants to do at any given moment. He doesn't need picks or too much spacing. That's why he's harder to defend

BUT

LeBron is absolutely frightening in transition and when he does choose to go to the rim. He's more likely to convert the shot, but he's also less able to just drive to the rim and generate a good look whenever he wants to.

i'd say they're neck and neck. i'd prefer LeBron as far as pure finishing abilty, but Michael is obviously much less likely to get shut off the rim. LeBron was denied the paint in 2 of the Finals he lost and 6 games of another he barely won.

[mehyaM24]

You are just moving the goal post. Lebron finishes well because of power and strength? Lol so? He finishes more at the rim than Kobe at a much higher percentage. Why do you think they have such a massive difference in field goal percentages?

Who is more likely to get to the rim to score ? Lebron.
Who is more likely to convert when actually at the rim? Lebron.

Kobe? :biggums:

Wade is a better finisher than Kobe.

Let me get some numbers.

Just as I thought.

From 0-3 feet
Lebron .726
Kobe .635
Wade .660

Lebron > Wade > Kobe

hit the nail on this one bro ... very nice post

lebron is simply a better finisher around the rim. just look at him. he is a 100mph tank penetrating the basket, with defenders helplessly draped onto him as they fail to wrap him up. the sheer combination of speed and strength is INSANE.

i think another aspect that makes lebron better, is the defneses he is playing. they actually contest shots now. i believe danny ainge was quoted saying they played no defense.

take a look at this:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/C1vDMk.gif

^^^^^^^^^^^ironically enough, against ainge and his suns. look at jordan just walzting into the lane unabated (fratello on the play by play called that a terrible defensive possession btw)

more evidence of uncontested, free looks:
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/0C1BeO.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/WmQJwT.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/sMQEbr.gif
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/JfEV8n.gif

honestly , you just cant compare jordan's inferior finishing around the rim (against weak defenses) vs lebron's superior athleticism and speed - against sophisticated, handchecking and zone defenses.

[andgar923]

Based on what? They are comparable at least.

In MJ's peak season 3 seasons statistically 89-90 to the 91-92 season, (only 126 out of 243 games only data I can find) he finished at a .743 clip at the rim. In Lebron's peak 3 seasons he finished at a .776 clip. Cant locate the number of attempts for Jordan at the moment. He had more dunks, but I suspect less shots at the rim.
You clearly didn't watch MJ play so no need to waste more time trying to explain something you won't want too.

Good day

[ArbitraryWater]

Is this a serious question? Like, is this real life? Hell, there's other players I would mention in comparison to MJ in this category and even they don't come close. Hell Kobe is a better finisher at the rim than Lebron.

Ill give you just one example, guys nowadays will walk tight rope along the baseline, go under the basket and come out on the other side because there's no room to get a shot off. MJ would put up a reverse with either hand on either side of the basket, no problem......

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DALE-HUNTER-FACE.gif


Jesus, you really believe your crap?

So Kobe is better at the rim AND a better shooter?

He must absolutely destroy LeBron in Efficiency...........

Oh wait, these last few Years LeBron has been near 80% around the rim, topping Shaq's BEST SEASON(S), but yeah, Kobe sure must be the better finisher around the basket.......

LeBron increased his FG% in the paint to 78% in 2013 and 80% in 2014.

The last player in the last 15 years to come closest to 80% FG in 0-3 feet from the basket?

Shaquille O'Neal with 79% in the 2000-2001 season....

SHAQUILLE O'NEAL at his best could never match LeBron's efficiency around the basket... And no Small Forward has ever posted close to even 75% in the paint.


Mods please.

[navy]

That's your opinion. I look at skill. To me, power and strength has nothing to do with skill. When I'm comparing them as finishers, I'm looking who has the most skill to finish shots in traffic if they did not have superior physical advantages over their opponent. So I say Kobe and Jordan are superior finishers to Lebron. Neither of them have a hug advantage over their opponents like Lebron does. Yet they are both still fantastic finishers. That is my criteria, in this case I don't care about stats. In that case, Shaq is a better finisher than both of them. Statistically he is. But when I'm comparing player vs. player in various categories, I'm looking at skill and I think Kobe is a better finisher than Lebron and I don't think either can sniff Jordan.....

I don't see Lebron doing sh*t like this

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/mjbquX.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/mjbquX)

And that's not that great but catching the ball and rising up quickly in traffic with no running start, I don't see Lebron doing stuff like this.....

What kind of logic is this? Power and strength have nothing to do with skill? Do you think any random body builder off the street could finish as well as Lebron or Shaq? Are people really being punished for having size and actually having the necessary skill to use it? Lebron is 250 pounds and can do 360 layups, reverses, up and unders, etc. But because he weighs more he's not as good a finisher? :facepalm

At least find something other than a generic dunk if you want to argue Kobe's finishing prowess....

[oarabbus]

Linsanity-Lin was better than both

[navy]

You clearly didn't watch MJ play so no need to waste more time trying to explain something you won't want too.

Good day
Jordan is the most popular athlete of all time and you really think I havent seen him play?

[ArbitraryWater]

That's your opinion. I look at skill. To me, power and strength has nothing to do with skill. When I'm comparing them as finishers, I'm looking who has the most skill to finish shots in traffic if they did not have superior physical advantages over their opponent. So I say Kobe and Jordan are superior finishers to Lebron. Neither of them have a hug advantage over their opponents like Lebron does. Yet they are both still fantastic finishers. That is my criteria, in this case I don't care about stats. In that case, Shaq is a better finisher than both of them. Statistically he is. But when I'm comparing player vs. player in various categories, I'm looking at skill and I think Kobe is a better finisher than Lebron and I don't think either can sniff Jordan.....

I don't see Lebron doing sh*t like this

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/mjbquX.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/mjbquX)

And that's not that great but catching the ball and rising up quickly in traffic with no running start, I don't see Lebron doing stuff like this.....

So you don't really care who's the better finisher, but you simply use a broad term like "skill" (When I can damn sure see Lebron is a more skilled finisher around the bucket) and seem to evaluate most IMPRESSIVE finisher?

[3ball]

What kind of logic is this? Power and strength have nothing to do with skill? Do you think any random body builder off the street could finish as well as Lebron or Shaq? Are people really being punished for having size and actually having the necessary skill to use it? Lebron is 250 pounds and can do 360 layups, reveres, up and unders, etc. But because he weighs more he's not as good a finisher? :facepalm

At least find something other than a generic dunk if you want to argue Kobe's finishing prowess....
He's just making the valid point that Lebron is a poor two-foot leaper, so his at-rim finishing will always be limited..

He's not explosive leaper off two feet and this hurts his at-rim finishing ability compared to Kobe and Jordan.

It's one of the main reasons lebron posterizes defenders far less frequently than Jordan.

[navy]

He's just making the valid point that Lebron is a poor two-foot leaper, so his at-rim finishing will always be limited..

He's not explosive leaper off two feet and this hurts his at-rim finishing ability compared to Kobe and Jordan.

It's one of the main reasons lebron posterizes defenders far less frequently than Jordan.
Yeah, I mean players are being punished for being bigger or faster, but jumping higher or farther on two feet is definitely solid criteria. Not one foot though. Only two counts. :facepalm

[WindmiLL]

What kind of logic is this? Power and strength have nothing to do with skill? Do you think any random body builder off the street could finish as well as Lebron or Shaq? Are people really being punished for having size and actually having the necessary skill to use it? Lebron is 250 pounds and can do 360 layups, reverses, up and unders, etc. But because he weighs more he's not as good a finisher? :facepalm

At least find something other than a generic dunk if you want to argue Kobe's finishing prowess....


Excatly. Following this logic I'm a better finisher than Kobe. I can do reverse, up and under blah blah blah, but athletically and physically I'm a midget compared to him. Certainly the difference in that regard is MUCH bigger between me and Kobe than between Kobe and Lebron. So me > Kobe when it comes to finishing around the rim :banana:

[3ball]

Excatly. Following this logic I'm a better finisher than Kobe. I can do reverse, up and under blah blah blah, but athletically and physically I'm a midget compared to him. Certainly the difference in that regard is MUCH bigger between me and Kobe than between Kobe and Lebron. So me > Kobe when it comes to finishing around the rim :banana:

But Lebron is a poor two-foot leaper and this hurts his explosiveness anytime there isn't enough room for a run-up and one-legged takeoff.

In this spot below, Lebron's lack of power off two legs cost his team the game - look, he barely jumps over a phone book here off two legs:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Lebron_Stuffed_after_Jumping_o_3ab12cd053656a6016f 9ea4e26ad4fa5.gif

[OldSchoolBBall]

Prime Jordan was finishing at a 74+% rate at the rim in an era where the paint was MUCH more crowded, more contact was allowed, and there were a ton more legit big man shotblockers. Lebron is an all-time finisher, but Jordan is imo the best finisher of all time. His control, touch, and concentration were unparalleled, and for all the talk of Lebron being able to take contact and finish, I think Jordan has him beat there too.

[ArbitraryWater]

"LeBron is a poor two foot leaper because I say so and that's all it takes for Kobe to be better around the rim... That is the one arbitrary criteria I picked out, I don't care if 95% of the time he doesn't even need it"

[Smoke117]

Prime Jordan was finishing at a 74+% rate at the rim in an era where the paint was MUCH more crowded, more contact was allowed, and there were a ton more legit big man shotblockers. Lebron is an all-time finisher, but Jordan is imo the best finisher of all time. His control, touch, and concentration were unparalleled, and for all the talk of Lebron being able to take contact and finish, I think Jordan has him beat there too.

Way to back that up with actual proof.

[STATUTORY]

Prime Jordan was finishing at a 74+% rate at the rim in an era where the paint was MUCH more crowded, more contact was allowed, and there were a ton more legit big man shotblockers. Lebron is an all-time finisher, but Jordan is imo the best finisher of all time. His control, touch, and concentration were unparalleled, and for all the talk of Lebron being able to take contact and finish, I think Jordan has him beat there too.
a lot of it has to do with body control. Bron is bulky and mechanical while MJ and Kobe possessed that nature fluidity

[OldSchoolBBall]

Way to back that up with actual proof.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950

And that's for 1990-1992. I'd say MJ's finishing peak was likely '87-'91, so it might even be higher.

[Trollsmasher]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950

And that's for 1990-1992. I'd say MJ's finishing peak was likely '87-'91, so it might even be higher.
wouldnt expect him to be so shit in the paint:biggums:

[OldSchoolBBall]

wouldnt expect him to be so shit in the paint:biggums:

Huh? "In the paint" means anything outside of 5 feet out to about the 10 foot range. Lebron in 2014 shot sub-50% in that zone, for reference, compared to Jordan's 59%. 2008 Kobe shot 51-52% in that range. So not sure how that's "shit."

[Mr Exlax]

Even though MJ has more dunks and flashy layups and all that I still gotta give it to LeBron. The reason why he doesn't have as many contested dunks and layups is because defenders are just too afraid to jump.

[guy]

Based on what? They are comparable at least.

In MJ's peak season 3 seasons statistically 89-90 to the 91-92 season, (only 126 out of 243 games only data I can find) he finished at a .743 clip at the rim. In Lebron's peak 3 seasons he finished at a .776 clip. Cant locate the number of attempts for Jordan at the moment. He had more dunks, but I suspect less shots at the rim.

Doesn't take into account who they are facing at the rim and doesn't take into account the shots they were able to get off. Jordan has SIGNIFICANTLY better body control i.e. the ability to contort his movements and decide on the fly what he wants to do then Lebron does. He was able to dunk with the best of them like Lebron or Nique but he was also able to move in mid-air and take and make incredibly difficult shots even better then someone like Wade or Rose has been able to.

This really isn't that close. Lebron is more powerful, but the body control is really what sets Jordan apart in this category.

[Dro]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DALE-HUNTER-FACE.gif


Jesus, you really believe your crap?

So Kobe is better at the rim AND a better shooter?

He must absolutely destroy LeBron in Efficiency...........

Oh wait, these last few Years LeBron has been near 80% around the rim, topping Shaq's BEST SEASON(S), but yeah, Kobe sure must be the better finisher around the basket.......

LeBron increased his FG% in the paint to 78% in 2013 and 80% in 2014.

The last player in the last 15 years to come closest to 80% FG in 0-3 feet from the basket?

Shaquille O'Neal with 79% in the 2000-2001 season....

SHAQUILLE O'NEAL at his best could never match LeBron's efficiency around the basket... And no Small Forward has ever posted close to even 75% in the paint.


Mods please.

God you Lebron stans get so butt-hurt when somebody doesn't agree with you........You and Navy are Lebron fans, I get it. Just because I don't agree with you and provide my reasoning for it doesn't mean you have to get all up in arms and call my opinion crap. Navy NEVER agrees with me anyway. Its to the point where when I post my opinion in a thread, I'm sure to come back and see him disagreeing with me, that's just how he does it. He obviously disagrees with everything I post since he never posts in a topic agreeing with me. Obviously he feels I'm a sh*t poster or he just likes disagreeing with me, or both. Doesn't matter how much I try to explain my point, he will disagree. So how much emphasis should I put on you guy's opinions? You're a huge Lebron fan, and he's a fan of Lebron also, although maybe not as much as you plus he never agrees with me anyway..:confusedshrug:

I stand by what I said, one minute you guys want to throw up stats and in another thread claim they are irrelevant. And no in my opinion. strength and power have nothing to do with his skill and his body builder comparison is way out there......Just because I feel Kobe has more skill at finishing than Lebron doesn't mean that I think ****ing Mark Henry could come off the street and be a better finisher...It's like you dudes want folks to feel that Lebron is the best at everything and he's not.....You guys don't even take into effect the era's and defenses. You conveniently ignore it but this thread is tired already. I said my peace, you're obviously never going to agree with it so its tired......

[ArbitraryWater]

Why do you get all emotional with the "fans" shit... It's me, navy, AND windmill... You have failed to even adress all points that were made.

Stay in tunnel vision, though... Gotta love people who can't admit they said something dumb.

[Hoopz2332]

Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk


:coleman:

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/STEAL_AND_1.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/STEAL_AND_1.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/3792143_l.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xze2FQzWPPc/UyEA0H2QQQI/AAAAAAAADt4/dlRM2kYPFkQ/s1600/2.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/CommonPointedFairyfly.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/2XskdWp9tSH9pZwQSM8/giphy.gif

you can practically tackle him and he'll finish most of the time

http://thumb.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/540-390nw/7907710.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/140510-jameslayup.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ:

Power
Grace
Dexterity
Craftiness
Leaping Versatility
Touch

Bron is pure power. And with fading athleticism or conserving athleticism he's not the terror around the rim he used to be. Still great but Jordan from '88 to '95 was the best.

[navy]

MJ:
And with fading athleticism or conserving athleticism he's not the terror around the rim he used to be.
Everything points to him being better than he every was down at the rim....
Was at 80% rounded last year.

[LongLiveTheKing]

:coleman:

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/STEAL_AND_1.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/STEAL_AND_1.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/3792143_l.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xze2FQzWPPc/UyEA0H2QQQI/AAAAAAAADt4/dlRM2kYPFkQ/s1600/2.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/CommonPointedFairyfly.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/2XskdWp9tSH9pZwQSM8/giphy.gif

you can practically tackle him and he'll finish most of the time

http://thumb.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/540-390nw/7907710.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/140510-jameslayup.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2UcE-3EyY&list=LLzU-w8uDmJA5a1Kn3HETS8Q#t=111

[navy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2UcE-3EyY&list=LLzU-w8uDmJA5a1Kn3HETS8Q#t=111
This nikka Dro actually tried to say Kobe was a better finisher. :coleman:

[Hoopz2332]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2UcE-3EyY&list=LLzU-w8uDmJA5a1Kn3HETS8Q#t=111

:applause: III was looking for a gif for that play. lebron finishes with both hands with equal eff

[Hoopz2332]

This nikka Dro actually tried to say Kobe was a better finishers. :coleman:

Kobe isn't even as good as durant at finishing:oldlol:

[Angel Face]

MJ particularly late 80s to early 90s version of him and it's not remotely close.

[Rose'sACL]

MJ particularly late 80s to early 90s version of him and it's not remotely close.
it is very close.

[Fire Colangelo]

Probably MJ... Things like this you just can't go with stats 100% of the time. MJ played through some of the best defensive anchors out there. Not to mention MJ got into the paint far more often.

Kobe really has no argument here lol, though Kobe is probably the best "bad shot" maker in the history.

[Rose'sACL]

That's your opinion. I look at skill. To me, power and strength has nothing to do with skill. When I'm comparing them as finishers, I'm looking who has the most skill to finish shots in traffic if they did not have superior physical advantages over their opponent. So I say Kobe and Jordan are superior finishers to Lebron. Neither of them have a hug advantage over their opponents like Lebron does. Yet they are both still fantastic finishers. That is my criteria, in this case I don't care about stats. In that case, Shaq is a better finisher than both of them. Statistically he is. But when I'm comparing player vs. player in various categories, I'm looking at skill and I think Kobe is a better finisher than Lebron and I don't think either can sniff Jordan.....

I don't see Lebron doing sh*t like this

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2014/mjbquX.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/mjbquX)

And that's not that great but catching the ball and rising up quickly in traffic with no running start, I don't see Lebron doing stuff like this.....
you are an idiot is what you are. basketball is about points and not how you got those points.
Guys like you would take kobe over shaq and ruin that franchise.

[Hoopz2332]

:biggums:

Lebron James is the literally one of the best if not the best all time at finishing at the rim. Volume and efficiency. It really isnt even close compared to other perimeter players. And I want someone to prove me otherwise. The only people with comparable rim numbers to Lebron James are Charles Barkley, Shaq, and mabye other centers or big power fowards like Malone.

Kobe Bryant? :facepalm

http://static.basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/grant_r_LeBron_ShotChart.jpg

LeBron James (2013-14) *Including Playoffs

335/437 FG (76.7%), 4.51 Attempts Per Game



Charles Barkley (84 Game Sample)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=312709

467/574 FG (81.4%), 6.83 Attempts Per Game



Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) *Transition data unavailable

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...one-mode=basic

571/763 FG (74.8%), 9.66 Attempts Per Game

:applause:

[navy]

You guys see Lebron's insane field goal percentages and efficiency and never wonder where it comes from? You think Lebron start shooting 57% because of his midrange game? Threes? Come on now. His finishing is all time elite. Comparable to Jordan, if not better, but certainly better than Kobe.

[TheMan]

LBJ is the best finisher today BUT MJ was the GOAT finisher. Can LeBron do this???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgYtnnBvVI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

MJ had more hang time, greater mid air body control and with those huge mitts, had much better ball control.

[c5terror]

MJ, not even close, MJ also do tons of facial on a player including shaq compare to Lebron, Lebron is too afraid to tonyparker to even discuss this thing.

MJ on traffic, finish on the rim with great footwork, hangtime and pumpfake.
Lebron can't do that because he always travel and his footwork sucks, he's dunk is more on an open drive to the lane and thats it.

[Paul George 24]

:coleman:

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/STEAL_AND_1.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/STEAL_AND_1.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/3792143_l.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xze2FQzWPPc/UyEA0H2QQQI/AAAAAAAADt4/dlRM2kYPFkQ/s1600/2.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/CommonPointedFairyfly.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/2XskdWp9tSH9pZwQSM8/giphy.gif

you can practically tackle him and he'll finish most of the time

http://thumb.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/540-390nw/7907710.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/140510-jameslayup.gif

weak

[Kvnzhangyay]

Lebrons probably better at taking contact, but MJs better at avoiding contact

[Paul George 24]

:applause: III was looking for a gif for that play. lebron finishes with both hands with equal eff

weak era,no comparision to mj's era

[Paul George 24]

Lebrons probably better at taking contact, but MJs better at avoiding contact

how many and 1 compares to jodan:lol

[Hoopz2332]

double hack and a broken nose but still finishes:applause:

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/840087833.gif

[3ball]

double hack and a broken nose but still finishes:applause:

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/840087833.gif
jordan has plays like that and many more that are more complicated

[Dragic4Life]

Lebron and it's not close.

[3ball]

.
just like lebron's over ibaka above, only Jordan's quick


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/04cb29c7576454de2726a70c31eea782.gif

[3ball]

Lebron and it's not close.

Here's one Lebron can't do - doesn't have the explosion off two legs and can't fit in the tight space..


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/44dac513a57f077f61bdd07b297d9085.gif

[3ball]

What happened to this thread?

No one wants to go poster for poster and see who overpowered paint defenders better?

[Kvnzhangyay]

Here's one Lebron can't do - doesn't have the explosion off two legs and can't fit in the tight space..


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/44dac513a57f077f61bdd07b297d9085.gif

So how does that refute his statement in any way?

[Prometheus]

What happened to this thread?

No one wants to go poster for poster and see who overpowered paint defenders better?

"Overpower" is a misleading word here, because LeBron is a lot bigger and stronger than Jordan and could certainly overpower more. Jordan got more, better posters because of his higher levels of courage and competitive drive, as well as his vastly superior lateral quickness (to get to his spot) and two-legged hops to elevate for the dunk. He was also more agile and able to control the ball better to avoid the contest... anyway, yeah I made my position clear on this one. Jordan > LeBron when it comes to finishing around the rim and it's not close.

[russwest0]

What happened to this thread?

No one wants to go poster for poster and see who overpowered paint defenders better?

lmao, have you watched the current league?

lebron had how many true "posters" last year? Like one or two if that?

Jordan played in a much tougher league in regards to getting into the paint and scoring.

[LeBird]

Er, didn't Lebron have like an 80% year near the rim? That puts him, what? Near #1 of all time, comparable to guys like Barkley. :lol

[russwest0]

Er, didn't Lebron have like an 80% year near the rim? That puts him, what? Near #1 of all time, comparable to guys like Barkley. :lol

did you watch LeBron last year?

he protected the shit out of his FG%. so much of that 80% was easy transition baskets

[navy]

did you watch LeBron last year?

he protected the shit out of his FG%. so much of that 80% was easy transition baskets

Lebron was at 77% minus transition baskets....:lol

[russwest0]

Lebron was at 77% minus transition baskets....:lol

yeah, and how many of those were contested?

the few i remember, he got blocked, like by plumlee in the clutch.

[navy]

yeah, and how many of those were contested?

the few i remember, he got blocked, like by plumlee in the clutch.

Moving the Goal post after that failed transition remark.
Yeah. Getting blocked that one time really bolsters your argument.

Ironically enough, the block you mentioned was in transition....:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Moving the Goal post after that failed transition remark.
Yeah. Getting blocked that one time really bolsters your argument.

Ironically enough, the block you mentioned was in transition....:oldlol:

Andddd Simon got ethered once again

[Hoopz2332]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2588599/lestrong.gif

tackled and still scored with the left

[Trollsmasher]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2588599/lestrong.gif

tackled and still scored with the left
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMWUnIMANYc&feature=youtu.be

[Paul George 24]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2588599/lestrong.gif

tackled and still scored with the left

weak,not even half close to jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5dnF3ReO0Q#t=296 :banana:

[Magic 32]

Lebron is better.....

NOT!

http://i.giflike.com/GMIBOt4.gif

[lilteapot]

Lebron is better.....

NOT!

http://i.giflike.com/GMIBOt4.gif
and this gif proves what?

[andgar923]

People falsely believe that being strong equates to being a good finisher.

But that's just half the story.

Being a good finisher often times requires being crafty and having a soft touch just as much as being big and strong.

Being a good finisher requires being able to shift, weave and split defenders inside the paint.

Being a good finisher requires the ability to change and alter one's shot. Making adjustments to what the defense gives you.

And with all of that combined, MJ>>>> Bron

Finishing isn't solely about dunking. It's about well.... finishing by any means necessary. Be it a hook shot, layup, pull up, or dunk. MJ wins hands down.

[andgar923]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2588599/lestrong.gif

tackled and still scored with the left
:rolleyes:

[lilteapot]

People falsely believe that being strong equates to being a good finisher.

But that's just half the story.

Being a good finisher often times requires being crafty and having a soft touch just as much as being big and strong.

Being a good finisher requires being able to shift, weave and split defenders inside the paint.

Being a good finisher requires the ability to change and alter one's shot. Making adjustments to what the defense gives you.

And with all of that combined, MJ>>>> Bron

Finishing isn't solely about dunking. It's about well.... finishing by any means necessary. Be it a hook shot, layup, pull up, or dunk. MJ wins hands down.
and he does all of those things sooooo

[Paul George 24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMWUnIMANYc&feature=youtu.be

no contest against jordan :rockon:

http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20141014040933.gif

[Paul George 24]

and this gif proves what?

goat flopper :lol

[andgar923]

and he does all of those things sooooo

Did I mention he didn't? :confusedshrug:

Just not as good as MJ... actually, not close to be real.

[ballinhun8]

Jordan.

No contest.

[tpols]

People falsely believe that being strong equates to being a good finisher.

But that's just half the story.

Being a good finisher often times requires being crafty and having a soft touch just as much as being big and strong.

Being a good finisher requires being able to shift, weave and split defenders inside the paint.

Being a good finisher requires the ability to change and alter one's shot. Making adjustments to what the defense gives you.

And with all of that combined, MJ>>>> Bron

Finishing isn't solely about dunking. It's about well.... finishing by any means necessary. Be it a hook shot, layup, pull up, or dunk. MJ wins hands down.

I'm far from Lebron's biggest fan.. and what you just described are means to ends. Lebron can reach an end with 1 or 2 means.. basically just shouldering people out of the way every time.. MJ isn't big or strong enough to do that so he has to resort to more craftiness and a wider variety of moves to have the same success. Their end results are the same though.. there's no gap like you're making it out to be..

[Paul George 24]

I'm far from Lebron's biggest fan.. and what you just described are means to ends. Lebron can reach an end with 1 or 2 means.. basically just shouldering people out of the way every time.. MJ isn't big or strong enough to do that so he has to resort to more craftiness and a wider variety of moves to have the same success. Their end results are the same though.. there's no gap like you're making it out to be..

mj is stronger than u throught :banana:

http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20141014040933.gif

[tpols]

mj is stronger than u throught :banana:

http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20141014040933.gif
265 lbs of pure muscle on bran tho.. it's like comparing a corner back to a line backer

[AirFederer]

Both great, but give me MJ on pure aestethics and hang time :bowdown:

And, don't forget one is 6-8 and 265, the other guy was 6-6 and 210....

[Inactive]

Jordan certainly finished more dunks through contact, but there's no way he matched Lebron's percentages around the basket. If he did, he would've shot >55%-57%.

[Paul George 24]

265 lbs of pure muscle on bran tho.. it's like comparing a corner back to a line backer

mj only has 4 % fat :banana:

ostertag 7"2,292 bls ,but still couldn't stop mj scores even he climb on mj

lebron is heavier than mj,but it doesn't mean he is stronger than mj

[Paul George 24]

Jordan certainly finished more dunks through contact, but there's no way he matched Lebron's percentages around the basket. If he did, he would've shot >55%-57%.

mj plays in a much tougher era unlike leflop :rockon:

[Real14]

Jordan because Lebron gets away with a lot of traveling, crab dribbles and offensive fouls.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Overall, I'll most likely say Jordan but it's still close. They're both terrific finishers at the rim, two of the very best of all-time. Dr J's in that conversation as well, and you could even call him the greatest finisher ever.
As far as from up close, considering not only layups/dunks (at the rim), but also floaters, scoopers, leaners, hooks, finger-rolls, close-range jumpers... I'd certainly go with MJ.



Jordan certainly finished more dunks through contact, but there's no way he matched Lebron's percentages around the basket. If he did, he would've shot >55%-57%.

:coleman:

Jordan's 1991 Playoffs short-chart:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292414

---> At Rim: 78/108 FG (72.2%)
In Paint (Overall): 102/171 FG (59.6%)
Mid-Range: 84/178 FG (47.2%)
3 Point: 10/26 FG (38.5%)

For that Playoff run, overall, he put up 31.1 PPG on 52.4% from the field and 38.5% from 3, which was more or less his FG% (not 3PT%) during those days; matter of fact in that same year, in the regular-season, he scored 31.5 PPG on 53.9% from the field and 31.2% from 3, so given the (you can say considerably) higher FG% and lower 3P%, either he was shooting (considerably) higher %'s from mid-range (not probable on the considerable part) or considerably higher %'s in the paint/at the rim (most likely), given that he was shooting in the same "proportions" as in the post-season.

Make your conclusions... That's a pretty poor assumption though, saying that he couldn't have the same %'s as LeBron at the rim, or else he'd be shooting 55%-57% :rolleyes:
And don't forget that Jordan was scoring more than LeBron, playing in an era where the paint was more crowded, on average... And yea, he was most likely shooting the same (in quantity) in the paint as from mid-range, during those years.

[Inactive]

Overall, I'll most likely say Jordan but it's still close. They're both terrific finishers at the rim, two of the very best of all-time. Dr J's in that conversation as well, and you could even call him the greatest finisher ever.
As far as from up close, considering not only layups/dunks (at the rim), but also floaters, scoopers, leaners, hooks, finger-rolls, close-range jumpers... I'd certainly go with MJ.




:coleman:

Jordan's 1991 Playoffs short-chart:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292414

---> At Rim: 78/108 FG (72.2%)
In Paint (Overall): 102/171 FG (59.6%)
Mid-Range: 84/178 FG (47.2%)
3 Point: 10/26 FG (38.5%)

For that Playoff run, overall, he put up 31.1 PPG on 52.4% from the field and 38.5% from 3, which was more or less his FG% (not 3PT%) during those days; matter of fact in that same year, in the regular-season, he scored 31.5 PPG on 53.9% from the field and 31.2% from 3, so given the (you can say considerably) higher FG% and lower 3P%, either he was shooting (considerably) higher %'s from mid-range (not probable on the considerable part) or considerably higher %'s in the paint/at the rim (most likely), given that he was shooting in the same "proportions" as in the post-season.

Make your conclusions... That's a pretty poor assumption though, saying that he couldn't have the same %'s as LeBron at the rim, or else he'd be shooting 55%-57% :rolleyes:
And don't forget that Jordan was scoring more than LeBron, playing in an era where the paint was more crowded, on average... And yea, he was most likely shooting the same (in quantity) in the paint as from mid-range, during those years.
Lebron's 2014 Playoffs shot chart:

At Rim: 102/132 FG (77.3%)
In Paint (Overall): 117/158 FG (74.1%)
Mid-Range: 40/96 FG (41.7%)
3 Point: 35/86 FG (40.7%)

http://i.imgur.com/NdtxMTi.png

vs

http://i.imgur.com/pzV1bLp.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ixn1jW1.png
76% in the innermost circle

vs

http://i.imgur.com/4RIFnxZ.jpg
66.7% in the innermost circle.

Do we have any other shot charts from Jordan's prime? The earliest ones on NBA.com are from 97, and 98. http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=893&Season=1996-97&display-mode=performance&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&zone-mode=zone http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=893&Season=1997-98&display-mode=performance&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&zone-mode=zone

[Hoopz2332]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMWUnIMANYc&feature=youtu.be


The power:bowdown:


http://i.imgur.com/gDV6Kyr.jpg

another one of that variety


LeBron James too strong


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT9U8hT7UhE&hd=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpIQSA5I0OI&hd=1

[Hoopz2332]

Watch out lebron trucks Ibaka with pure power @ 3:40 and finishes at the rim

Thunder vs. Heat: LeBron James highlights - 29 points (12.25.12)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m616A3X_eVo&hd=1

it's like Shaq but from the perimeter:oldlol:

[tpols]

Yea Lebron's the only player that can have more rim looks than anybody else, have it be his most attempted shot and still shoot 75 percent.. well probably never see another non big man do that ever again

[Hoopz2332]

lebron trucking Kyle Kover with the and1


Lebron James Super Amped Fast Break Lay-Up On Kyle Korver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhlO7Z-ozug&hd=1



lebron looking like Earl Campbell outthere:oldlol:


earl campbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui844C3TQVI&hd=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r50gW8XRDW8&hd=1

[ralph_i_el]

Lebron has led the league in scoring at the rim AND efficiency at the rim in the same season....multiple times.

Lets not have this debate. The answer is clearly Lebron.


ask who the better pull-up jump shooter is. It's clearly MJ

Bron shot 79.6% at the rim last year. I can't find anyone on Bball ref that shot better than that since 2001 when they started recording it. That's right...more efficient at the rim than SHAQ.

Wizards mj shot ~62% at the rim. Obviously lower than in his prime, but him being old doesn't account for shooting 25% better (and before someone goes "62%+25%...???" think "62.5%*125%")

[Hoopz2332]

http://i.imgur.com/QErbGaH.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LezbN9c.gif




http://i.imgur.com/Absv0Rx.gif


http://media.giphy.com/media/UgEQiZ9bNaaA0/giphy.gif

[Hoopz2332]

http://d.thewhistle.com/media/uploads/basketball/lebron_jame_layup.gif

[navy]

Enough gifs. No need to enter 3ball territory, the point is made.

[Hoopz2332]

http://giant.gfycat.com/DeterminedAlertAegeancat.gif

[andgar923]

:lol

Those gifs prove nothing

[Cali Syndicate]

Jordan's career is literally filled with finishes similar to all these gifs Hoopz is posting.

[tpols]

:lol

Those gifs prove nothing

Yea too bad all the numbers do..

[Hoopz2332]

:lol

Those gifs prove nothing


the numbers do though:pimp:

[Cali Syndicate]

Lebron's stronger, so he's better at absorbing contact. MJ is more agile, so he's better at creating angles and contorting his body.

MJ can take contact but can't truck through defenders and finish and-one's like Lebron can. On the other end, Lebron can show some finesse but can't knife in between defenders and contort his body while taking contact for and-one's like MJ can.

It's really in how you would define "better"

[SugarHill]

Yea too bad all the numbers do..
Numbers only matter when they follow your agenda.

[andgar923]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2014/qWvtw5.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2014/LdfuNV.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2014/UrAS40.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-13-2014/Gdrcz3.gif

Since we wanna post .gifs

He's either hit hard with his legs taken under him, bumped hard or grabbed.

Naturally, there's dozens upon dozens of more.

[Paul George 24]

The power:bowdown:


http://i.imgur.com/gDV6Kyr.jpg

another one of that variety


LeBron James too strong


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT9U8hT7UhE&hd=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpIQSA5I0OI&hd=1

weak :lol

[Paul George 24]

Lebron's stronger, so he's better at absorbing contact. MJ is more agile, so he's better at creating angles and contorting his body.

MJ can take contact but can't truck through defenders and finish and-one's like Lebron can. On the other end, Lebron can show some finesse but can't knife in between defenders and contort his body while taking contact for and-one's like MJ can.

It's really in how you would define "better"

lbj heavier than mj,doesn't mean he is stronger than mj :no:
I doubt u never watch young MJ play

[Paul George 24]

http://giant.gfycat.com/DeterminedAlertAegeancat.gif

so weak compare to jordan

[Paul George 24]

Enough gifs. No need to enter 3ball territory, the point is made.

MJ IS BETTER :applause:

[Paul George 24]

http://i.imgur.com/QErbGaH.gif

http://i.imgur.com/LezbN9c.gif




http://i.imgur.com/Absv0Rx.gif


http://media.giphy.com/media/UgEQiZ9bNaaA0/giphy.gif

SO WEAK :lol

[Paul George 24]

http://d.thewhistle.com/media/uploads/basketball/lebron_jame_layup.gif

NOTHING SPECIAL :facepalm

[DatAsh]

It's probably Lebron. Doesn't he shoot like high 70s at the rim?

Jordan's era defended the rim a lot better than Lebron's era(due to lack of 3 defense). If the numbers were close I could give Jordan the nod for the extra defense, but we don't have Jordan's numbers, and I doubt he was finishing in the high 70 percent range. Lebron has that extra power and body weight that stabilizes him through contact.

[Paul George 24]

It's probably Lebron. Doesn't he shoot like high 70s at the rim?

Jordan's era defended the rim a lot better than Lebron's era(due to lack of 3 defense). If the numbers were close I could give Jordan the nod for the extra defense, but we don't have Jordan's numbers, and I doubt he was finishing in the high 70 percent range. Lebron has that extra power and body weight that stabilizes him through contact.

dun forgot lebron plays against weaker competetion :lol
big man cannot play d in this era :banana:

[Cali Syndicate]

lbj heavier than mj,doesn't mean he is stronger than mj :no:
I doubt u never watch young MJ play

First, I started watching basketball in the early 90's, so I didn't get to follow young MJ live, but technically, I have watched numerous full games of MJ prior to the 90's on YouTube and downloads. 90's MJ was stronger than 80's MJ anyways.

Second, I would definitely argue that MJ used his physicality better than Lebron does, but that'd be the extent of it. On a level of pure strength, MJ isn't on Lebron's level.

[Paul George 24]

First, I started watching basketball in the early 90's, so I didn't get to follow young MJ live, but technically, I have watched numerous full games of MJ prior to the 90's on YouTube and downloads. 90's MJ was stronger than 80's MJ anyways.

Second, I would definitely argue that MJ used his physicality better than Lebron does, but that'd be the extent of it. On a level of pure strength, MJ isn't on Lebron's level.

size doesn't mean everthing,just like u would not said shaq is stronger and hv more strength than bruce lee :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

Best finishers as perimeter players:

MJ
LeBron
Wade
Nique
Drexler
Pippen
Durant
D. Rose
McGrady
VC
Kobe

[Cali Syndicate]

size doesn't mean everthing,just like u would not said shaq is stronger and hv more strength than bruce lee :lol

I agree, size isn't everything. there are plenty of cases in the fitness world that proves this. People who train for hypertrophy, are usually "bigger," but typically aren't as strong as people who strength train. But we're not talking about that.

We're talking about a player, MJ, who never touched weights until he was in his early 30's while Lebron has been resistance training since his rookie season. You really think Lebron gained all that weight from playing basketball?

And LOL at Shaq vs bruce lee. Shaq is stronger period.

But let me give you a different example. Bruce Lee trained his body to be a martial artist. he could do one handed push ups, probably one handed pull-ups, Inverted shoulder presses, a lot of elite movements against his own body weight. Earl Boykins, basically the same size and weight as Bruce lee, was bench pressing like 350lbs and squatting just as much or even more. Who do you think was stronger?

[Milbuck]

Prime Lebron from 2008-present shoots 76% from 0-3 ft :biggums:

[3ball]

Prime Lebron from 2008-present shoots 76% from 0-3 ft :biggums:

the highlights prove that a very high proportion of lebron's paint finishes are uncontested.

which shouldn't be a surprise - are we really going to act like the 22 threes taken per game by teams in today's game doesn't completely clear the paint of defenders?

(compared to 4 threes taken per game by teams in 1987)

and ofc the defensive 3 seconds also clears the paint - between this and the 3's, the paint literally stays clear in today's game.

[Milbuck]

the highlights prove
Literally stopped reading. Stop posting.

[3ball]

Literally stopped reading. Stop posting.
the highlights show every made FG.

you're one finnicky, insecure mod... get some self-esteem and stop stalking my every post.

[Milbuck]

the highlights show every made FG.

you're one finnicky, insecure mod... get some self-esteem and stop stalking my every post.
1st warning.

[Paul George 24]

I agree, size isn't everything. there are plenty of cases in the fitness world that proves this. People who train for hypertrophy, are usually "bigger," but typically aren't as strong as people who strength train. But we're not talking about that.

We're talking about a player, MJ, who never touched weights until he was in his early 30's while Lebron has been resistance training since his rookie season. You really think Lebron gained all that weight from playing basketball?

And LOL at Shaq vs bruce lee. Shaq is stronger period.

But let me give you a different example. Bruce Lee trained his body to be a martial artist. he could do one handed push ups, probably one handed pull-ups, Inverted shoulder presses, a lot of elite movements against his own body weight. Earl Boykins, basically the same size and weight as Bruce lee, was bench pressing like 350lbs and squatting just as much or even more. Who do you think was stronger?

I believe Bruce could shut down Shaq with his athlectism :lol

AND U SEEMS UNDERRATED MJ'S STRENGTH

[funnystuff]

Lebron is a surprisingly weak finisher in traffic or with contact considering his size. he either is able to throw down a tomahawk or not. no crafty way to finish if there's no open window for a dunk
Lol, kid's never watched Lebron play. :roll:

[aj1987]

So, when LeBron shoots and makes more 3 pointers, your excuse is that MJ didn't practice? When LeBron averages more assists in a slower paced league (4-7 points slower), you want to throw all context out of the window? :oldlol:

FACT: LeBron finished at a better rate than MJ at the rim. He takes as much punishment as any other player at the rim as well.

[Milbuck]

**** off dude seriously stalking me.. a pathetic derail
Enough is enough. You should be receiving a PM from Jeff or Steve soon. I suggest you keep an eye on your inbox, and tread lightly.

[3ball]

When LeBron averages more assists in a slower paced league (4-7 points slower), you want to throw all context out of the window? :oldlol:


pace isn't slower today... pace is 93.9 today, so the league had a slower pace during Jordan's 2nd three-peat, which means Jordan won in the fast league and the slow league.

so by more assists, you mean 6.4 to 5.7 in the playoffs using a less successful and effective playing style - why give credit for more assists, when it's only 0.8 more, and when those assists were achieved using a less effective style of play?... anyone can go out there and just rack up numbers.. :rolleyes:




FACT: He takes as much punishment as any other player at the rim as well.


not true - it's common knowledge that in today's game, the paint has been cleared of defenders by teams shooting 22 three pointers per game, compared to 4 per game in 1987... additionally, today's defensive 3 seconds rule mandates that the paint be clear of defenders.

that's why when you review at all of lebron's made FG's after a game, a very high proportion of them are uncontested, most with nothing, or just a weak fly-by or reach-in at best.

contrast that with jordan's fg's and you'll see a lot of jordan bumping into bodies and having to navigate tight congestion in the paint, and of course way more posters because he was more explosive in traffic when there wasn't room to get any run-up or momentum.
.

[russwest0]

pace isn't slower today... pace is 93.9 today, so the league had a slower pace during Jordan's 2nd three-peat, which means Jordan won in the fast league and the slow league.

so by more assists, you mean 6.4 to 5.7 in the playoffs using a less successful and effective playing style - why give credit for more assists, when it's only 0.8 more, and when those assists were achieved using a less effective style of play?... anyone can go out there and rack up numbers.. :rolleyes:


not true - it's common knowledge that in today's game, the paint has been cleared of defenders by teams shooting 22 three pointers per game, compared to 4 per game in 1987... additionally, today's defensive 3 seconds rule mandates that the paint be clear of defenders.

that's why when you review at all of lebron's made FG's after a game, a very high proportion of them are uncontested, most with nothing, or just a weak fly-by or reach-in at best.

contrast that with jordan's fg's and you'll see a lot of jordan bumping into bodies and having to navigate tight congestion in the paint.

LMAO!!!! hahaha you slayed that guy

[oarabbus]

3ball, name two different, non-trivial, non-backhanded, positive aspects of basketball in which LeBron is better than Jordan.

A trivial aspect would be "LeBron is taller" or "LeBron weighs more". Backhanded examples are "he's better at giving up the final shot" and "better at deferring/disappearing".

[3ball]

LMAO!!!! hahaha you slayed that guy
more trying to enlighten than slay, but carry on..

[russwest0]

3ball, name two different, non-trivial, non-backhanded, positive aspects of basketball in which LeBron is better than Jordan.

A trivial aspect would be "LeBron is taller" or "LeBron weighs more". Backhanded examples are "he's better at giving up the final shot" and "better at deferring/disappearing".

LeBron isn't better at anything basketball related than Jordan was.

I thought that much was clear. Better at bailing and shit, sure, but I guess thats "backhanded" or something :lol

[aj1987]

pace isn't slower today... pace is 93.9 today, so the league had a slower pace during Jordan's 2nd three-peat, which means Jordan won in the fast league and the slow league. so by more assists, you mean 6.4 to 5.7 in the playoffs using a less successful and effective playing style - why give credit for more assists, when it's only 0.8 more, and when those assists were achieved using a less effective style of play?... anyone can go out there and just rack up numbers.. :rolleyes:
Jordan averaged 4 assists during the 2nd 3peat in the RS and Playoffs. :facepalm

The rest of your post, MJ had his career high in assists during the '89 season. The year you keep bringing out about the triple-doubles and what not. Won 47 games. LeBron averaged 8.6 assists in '10 and won 61 games. So, you were saying? ('89 - 100.6; 2010 - 92.7 Pace).


not true - it's common knowledge that in today's game, the paint has been cleared of defenders by teams shooting 22 three pointers per game, compared to 4 per game in 1987... additionally, today's defensive 3 seconds rule mandates that the paint be clear of defenders.
Why aren't you bringing up the 2nd 3peat now? When Teams were shooting ~17 3's a games? :rolleyes:


that's why when you review at all of lebron's made FG's after a game, a very high proportion of them are uncontested, most with nothing, or just a weak fly-by or reach-in at best.

contrast that with jordan's fg's and you'll see a lot of jordan bumping into bodies and having to navigate tight congestion in the paint, and of course way more posters because he was more explosive in traffic when there wasn't room to get any run-up or momentum.
.

Stop posting.

[3ball]

Jordan averaged 4 assists during the 2nd 3peat in the RS and Playoffs. :facepalm


We'll see what Lebron is doing when he's 33...

Jordan passed when it was needed during that 2nd three-peat, while scoring at a goat frequency as usual, and had to carry a bigger offensive burden this time around with Rodman being a zero offensively.

Otoh, Lebron who is IN HIS PRIME at 29, averaged 4 assists and 4 turnovers in his failed bid for a three-peat.... and teams can still find ways to make him impactless in Finals... :facepalm:





The rest of your post, MJ had his career high in assists during the '89 season. The year you keep bringing out about the triple-doubles and what not. Won 47 games. LeBron averaged 8.6 assists in '10 and won 61 games. So, you were saying? ('89 - 100.6; 2010 - 92.7 Pace).


MJ only played point guard for the last 24 games of the 1989 season (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games)... For those last 24 games, he averaged 30.4 points, 9.2 rebs, and 10.9 assists (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-345-sum:pgl_basic), including a stretch of 10 triple-doubles in 11 games.

When has Lebron ever done that?

Clearly if Jordan had played point guard the entire year, he would have averaged more than 8.0 assists per game.

Also, the Bulls pace in 1989 was 23rd out of 25th at 97.0... compared to Lebron's 2010 team that was 91.4.





Stop posting


all this means is you can't refute that today's paint has been cleared of defenders by the 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds.
.

[3ball]

3ball, name two different, non-trivial, positive aspects of basketball in which LeBron is better than Jordan.

A trivial aspect would be "LeBron is taller" or "LeBron weighs more".



well one of them would certainly NOT be finishing at the rim... :facepalm


GIF's of 105 Different Chest-to-Chest Posters by MJ

Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797)
Random Posters 1 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508118&postcount=237)
Random Posters 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512996&postcount=255)
Random Posters 3 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10487292&postcount=48)
Random Posters 4 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10494322&postcount=198)
Random Posters 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10513143&postcount=256)
Random Posters 6 (for 6) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86)
Old-Man Chest-to-Chest Posters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512074&postcount=27)
Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395)
Various Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40)
Top 15 Hanging Jumpshots by MJ (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321)




two different, non-trivial, positive aspects of basketball in which LeBron is better than Jordan


1) fills the lane on the fastbreak
2) pushes the ball on the fastbreak

in addition to those two things above, lebron's also a slightly better defensive rebounder (i don't really believe this either if it really came down to it).

.

[aj1987]

We'll see what Lebron is doing when he's 33...

Jordan passed when it was needed during that 2nd three-peat, while scoring at a goat frequency as usual, and had to carry a bigger offensive burden this time around with Rodman being a zero offensively.

Otoh, Lebron who is IN HIS PRIME at 29, averaged 4 assists and 4 turnovers in his failed bid for a three-peat.... and teams can still find ways to make him impactless in Finals...
:facepalm

You do realize that LeBron is doing what he is as a SF/PF, right? Also, he probably would've gotten more assists, if his teammates actually played a bit better. Still using a SINGLE series in which LeBron teammates played like garbage to discredit him.


MJ only played point guard for the last 24 games of the 1989 season (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games)... For those last 24 games, he averaged 30.4 points, 9.2 rebs, and 10.9 assists (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-345-sum:pgl_basic), including a stretch of 10 triple-doubles in 11 games.

When has Lebron ever done that?

Clearly if Jordan had played point guard the entire year, he would have averaged more than 8.0 assists per game.

When has LeBron ever played PG. Dude averaged 7 APG while playing PF the last two seasons. Averages 7 for his career.

Using a 24 games sample? Well, LeBron averaged 8.6 APG in 2010, playing at a slower pace than '89 Jordan. When has Jordan EVER done that?



Also, the Bulls pace in 1989 was 23rd out of 25th at 97.0... compared to Lebron's 2010 team that was 91.4.
As I said, 4-7 points difference in pace. If you're using team averages, do that for everything else as well. Not just when it suits your agenda.


all this means is you can't refute that today's paint has been cleared of defenders by the 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds.
.
2nd 3peat. Teams averaged ~17+ 3's a game. Not too far away from what they shoot today. Still LeBron was more efficient at the rim. Don't pretend like MJ wasn't babied by the refs. Heck, even Magic made fun of the calls that MJ used to get.

FACT: LeBron is a better finisher, 3pt shooter, and Passer. Deal with it. I

[3ball]

:facepalm

When has LeBron ever played PG. Dude averaged 7 APG while playing PF the last two seasons. Averages 7 for his career.

Using a 24 games sample? Well, LeBron averaged 8.6 APG in 2010, playing at a slower pace than '89 Jordan. When has Jordan EVER done that?


Lebron has played point-guard his entire career, just ask Mario Chalmers or Mo Williams who played point guard, and we all know he is the primary ballhandler for his teams, so no sense in trying to hide this fact.... and yet Lebron has never averaged anywhere NEAR 30.4 points, 9.2 rebounds, and 10.9 assists like Jordan did when he played point guard.

And again, Bird, Lebron and Jordan all average the same assists - 6.5, 6.4 and 5.7 respectively in the playoffs - this is nowhere near Magic's 12.3, so don't act like Lebron is a Magic-type passer because he's not; he's a Bird/Jordan-type passer and the numbers prove that.

Are you going to keep acting like lebron's 6.4 playoff assist average is more than bird's 6.5 or jordan's 5.7 average?... because it is obviously disingenuous when you do.




2nd 3peat. Teams averaged ~17+ 3's a game. Not too far away from what they shoot today. Still LeBron was more efficient at the rim. Don't pretend like MJ wasn't babied by the refs. Heck, even Magic made fun of the calls that MJ used to get.


they didn't use specific floor-spacing strategy back then and they didn't have defensive 3 seconds.. again, this is obvious stuff you are overlooking.

and don't use being babied by the refs as a reason for why Jordan finished better at the rim.... the fact that you would whine and bring up that argument shows that you are already fully aware of how much more devastating Jordan was at the rim (as if his much higher frequency of overpowering paint defenders (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10540942#post10540942) wasn't enough already... :rolleyes:... this discussion is truly a waste of time).
.

[pauk]

Lebron has played point-guard his entire career, just ask Mario Chalmers or Mo Williams who played point guard, and we all know he is the primary ballhandler for his teams, no sense in trying to hide this fact.... and yet Lebron has never averaged anywhere NEAR 30.4 points, 9.2 rebounds, and 10.9 assists like Jordan did when he played point guard.

And again, Bird, Lebron and Jordan all average the same assists - 6.5, 6.4 and 5.7 respectively in the playoffs - this is nowhere near Magic's 12.3, so don't act like Lebron is a Magic-type passer because he's not; he's a Bird/Jordan-type passer and the numbers prove that.

Are you going to keep acting like lebron's 6.4 playoff assist average is more than bird's 6.5 or jordan's 5.7 average?... because it is obviously disingenuous when you do.


they didn't use specific floor-spacing strategy back then and they didn't have defensive 3 seconds.. again, this is obvious stuff you are overlooking.

and don't use being babied by the refs as a reason for why Jordan finished better at the rim.... the fact that you bring up that argument by itself shows that you are already fully aware of how much more devastating Jordan was at the rim (as if his much higher frequency of overpowering paint defenders wasn't enough already... :rolleyes:... this discussion is waste of time).

Lebron was experimented at the PG position (starting PG) his rookie year, since then he has only started PG occasionally.... thats as far as it goes.... Mo Williams, Mario Chalmers (and now Kyrie Irving) was handling the ball, he LET them do their jobs, he did bring it up whenever necessary but he didnt bring the ball up / handle the ball all the time like a PG.....

There is only one time that Lebron in his prime started PG for a long stretch, it happened in 2009-10 when Mo Williams / Daniel Gibson were injured and/or playing injured around January / February.....

Lebron there played PG for 13 straight games, how did he do? Have a look:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Untitled-2-2.png

That is:

31.7 ppg / 7.3 rpg / 11.6 apg

12 wins
1 loss

[3ball]

but he didnt bring the ball up / handle the ball all the time like a PG.....


this is the most disingenuous comment i've seen on any forum in a long time.

lebron has played point guard his entire career, not just a 13-game stretch.. he doesn't get the reputation for being ball-dominant for nothing.

we don't even need chalmers and mo williams to tell us that.

[Hoopz2332]

Lebron was experimented at the PG position (starting PG) his rookie year, since then he has only started PG occasionally.... thats as far as it goes.... Mo Williams, Mario Chalmers (and now Kyrie Irving) was handling the ball, he LET them do their jobs, he did bring it up whenever necessary but he didnt bring the ball up / handle the ball all the time like a PG.....

There is only one time that Lebron in his prime started PG for a long stretch, it happened in 2009-10 when Mo Williams / Daniel Gibson were injured and/or playing injured around January / February.....

Lebron there played PG for 13 straight games, how did he do? Have a look:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Untitled-2-2.png

That is:

31.7 ppg / 7.3 rpg / 11.6 apg

12 wins
1 loss

:eek: :applause:

[Hoopz2332]

http://i.imgur.com/N2VTaGC.gif

http://i.imgur.com/AzAWAct.gif

http://i.imgur.com/W2ncqSB.gif

http://i.imgur.com/62wxT01.gif

.
.


http://i.imgur.com/okXSYaK.gif

[Hoopz2332]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1098728/lebron-layup-h.gif

[pauk]

this is the most disingenuous comment i've seen on any forum in a long time.

lebron has played point guard his entire career, not just a 13-game stretch.

we don't even need chalmers and mo williams to tell us that.

You need to learn the difference between Point-Forward & Point-Guard...... if Lebron truly started point-guard he would average minimum 10 apg, why? Because he has done so each time he really did officially start PG......

A point-forward is just a guy helping the PG with PG duties at times.... but its the point-guard that handles the ball & facilitates the offense a HUGE majority of the time....

Lebron doesnt point-forward like that more than say today Kevin Durant or Carmelo and so on........ the assists happen out of pure passing skills/vision.......

Lebron will get you minimum 6-7 apg with his eyes closed no matter what, even if he never have to dribble the ball......

[aj1987]

Lebron has played point-guard his entire career, just ask Mario Chalmers or Mo Williams who played point guard, and we all know he is the primary ballhandler for his teams, so no sense in trying to hide this fact.... and yet Lebron has never averaged anywhere NEAR 30.4 points, 9.2 rebounds, and 10.9 assists like Jordan did when he played point guard.
Are you ****ing kidding me? Honestly, no one can be this dumb. Was Kobe a PG because he used to handle the ball a lot for the Lakers? Was Wade a PG? Stop acting like MJ didn't handle the ball more than anyone else on the Bulls.


And again, Bird, Lebron and Jordan all average the same assists - 6.5, 6.4 and 5.7 respectively in the playoffs - this is nowhere near Magic's 12.3, so don't act like Lebron is a Magic-type passer because he's not; he's a Bird/Jordan-type passer and the numbers prove that.
When did I say that LeBron is a "Magic type" passer? :facepalm


Are you going to keep acting like lebron's 6.4 playoff assist average is more than bird's 6.5 or jordan's 5.7 average?... because it is obviously disingenuous when you do.
:oldlol:

6.5 > 6.4 > 5.7. Even 4 year old kids can tell you that.


they didn't use specific floor-spacing strategy back then and they didn't have defensive 3 seconds.. again, this is obvious stuff you are overlooking.
and don't use being babied by the refs as a reason for why Jordan finished better at the rim.... the fact that you would whine and bring up that argument shows that you are already fully aware of how much more devastating Jordan was at the rim (as if his much higher frequency of overpowering paint defenders (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10540942#post10540942) wasn't enough already... :rolleyes:... this discussion is truly a waste of time).
.
Yes, it is.

LeBron's passing > MJ's passing
LeBron's 3pt shooting > MJ's 3pt shooting
LeBron's ability to finish at the rim > MJ's.

I'm done with your retarded ass.


Lebron was experimented at the PG position (starting PG) his rookie year, since then he has only started PG occasionally.... thats as far as it goes.... Mo Williams, Mario Chalmers (and now Kyrie Irving) was handling the ball, he LET them do their jobs, he did bring it up whenever necessary but he didnt bring the ball up / handle the ball all the time like a PG.....

There is only one time that Lebron in his prime started PG for a long stretch, it happened in 2009-10 when Mo Williams / Daniel Gibson were injured and/or playing injured around January / February.....

Lebron there played PG for 13 straight games, how did he do? Have a look:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Untitled-2-2.png

That is:

31.7 ppg / 7.3 rpg / 11.6 apg

12 wins
1 loss
Dat ether!

[Hoopz2332]

Noah with the shove but lebron still finished with power

http://i.imgur.com/HclSiBj.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xckcgrq.gif

[3ball]

Noah with the shove but lebron still finished with power

what a joke of a highlight.

typical of a lebron fan to post a wide open dunk where the defender can't get there in time.

seriously... this is really bad - it's the easiest finish ever but lebron fans think it is impressive compared to Jordan... truly amazing.... :facepalm

[Hoopz2332]

what a joke of a highlight.

typical of a lebron fan to post a wide open dunk where the defender can't get there in time.

seriously... this is really bad - it's the easiest finish ever but lebron fans think it is impressive compared to Jordan... truly amazing.... :facepalm


I posted a ton of different finishes at the rim of lebron.:lol

[3ball]

You need to learn the difference between Point-Forward & Point-Guard...... if Lebron truly started point-guard he would average minimum 10 apg, why?


few point guards have dominated the ball more than lebron has in his career.

it is common knowledge that he has ALWAYS been the primary ballhandler for his team, and in that capacity, he has barely averaged more assists than off-ball player Jordan.

and when Jordan had a 24-game stretch where HE got to be the primary ballhandler for his team, he averaged way more assists than lebron.


Lebron as primary ballhandler: 6.9 & 6.4 regular season and playoff assist averages

Jordan as off-ball player: 5.3 & 5.7 regular season and playoff assist averages

Jordan as primary ballhandler: 10.7 assists (along with his standard 30ppg)


Of course, anyone can rack up assists using an inferior style of play, which is what Lebron did.... Otoh, Jordan's passing was part of a superior style of play that achieved maximum results - so Jordan got much more bang for his buck on his assists... Jordan's assists simply meant more - they weren't wasted or unnecessary assists that someone ELSE could have gotten... All Jordan's assists were optimal for his team.

[tpols]

You need to learn the difference between Point-Forward & Point-Guard...... if Lebron truly started point-guard he would average minimum 10 apg, why? Because he has done so each time he really did officially start PG......

A point-forward is just a guy helping the PG with PG duties at times.... but its the point-guard that handles the ball & facilitates the offense a HUGE majority of the time....

Lebron doesnt point-forward like that more than say today Kevin Durant or Carmelo and so on........ the assists happen out of pure passing skills/vision.......

Lebron will get you minimum 6-7 apg with his eyes closed no matter what, even if he never have to dribble the ball......

thats a damn lie.

[Just2McFly]

you guys should be ashamed.

[c5terror]

http://i.imgur.com/N2VTaGC.gif

http://i.imgur.com/AzAWAct.gif

http://i.imgur.com/W2ncqSB.gif

http://i.imgur.com/62wxT01.gif

.
.


http://i.imgur.com/okXSYaK.gif

Weak. This is highlight reels of Lebron against traffic right? Cause this is just a normal for jordan :oldlol:

[c5terror]

Noah with the shove but lebron still finished with power

http://i.imgur.com/HclSiBj.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xckcgrq.gif
Lebron weak! tskt tsk..
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Michael-Jordan-Dunk-on-Patrick-Ewing.gif

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/964507_o.gif


http://i.imgur.com/EnGyg.gif

[3ball]

Weak. This is highlight reels of Lebron against traffic right? Cause this is just a normal for jordan :oldlol:
seriously....

do posters really think lebron can go poster for poster with Jordan?

i mean what a joke - they KNOW he can't, yet they still post his inferior highlights of defenders who are so late getting to the spot that they can only do a weak reach-in or fly-by.

if lebron went poster for poster with jordan, lebron's highlights would run out reeeeaaaally fast.

[lilteapot]

This nikka really pretending that Jordan didnt have a much higher usage rate than Lebron in his career :oldlol:

end the gig, man. you just found out about Jordan and are blowing your load over him. We all remember our first time, but stop pretending.

[Hoopz2332]

Weak. This is highlight reels of Lebron against traffic right? Cause this is just a normal for jordan :oldlol:


you didn't any of the previous gifs?:oldlol: :coleman:

[3ball]

This nikka really pretending that Jordan didnt have a much higher usage rate than Lebron in his career :oldlol:

end the gig, man. you just found out about Jordan and are blowing your load over him. We all remember our first time, but stop pretending.
jordan's higher usage proves that he fulfilled a bigger role within his team's offense, but thanks for point that out.

[3ball]

Lebron weak! tskt tsk..
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Michael-Jordan-Dunk-on-Patrick-Ewing.gif

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/964507_o.gif
the funny thing is that lebron can't do ANY of these..

they all require more explosiveness and leaping ability off of two legs that lebron lacks.

[3ball]

you didn't any of the previous gifs?:oldlol: :coleman:
okay, let's go poster for poster..

you post a lebron poster and i'll post a jordan one... no fly-bys or reach-ins, only posters.

GO

[c5terror]

you didn't any of the previous gifs?:oldlol: :coleman:

Still pretty weak right? Ugly footwork, Less slickness, less power than jordan, less bad ass still pretty weak compare to Jordan.
Not all in this play are finisher but all of the finisher here is 100 times better than Lebron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk :oldlol:
Lebron=elementary Jordan=Doctor
Silly to compare

[mehyaM24]

jordan's posters are nice. like up there with some of the greatest. just not up to par with lebron - who's dunks are with pure power and ferocity.

[c5terror]

jordan's posters are nice. like up there with some of the greatest. just not up to par with lebron - who's dunks are with pure power and ferocity.

Can you post a sample of Lebron poster that none of any jordan poster dunk will beat?:oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

okay, let's go poster for poster..

you post a lebron poster and i'll post a jordan one... no fly-bys or reach-ins, only posters.

GO


this thread wasn't about posters:biggums: It was about who finishes at the rim better and how they do it (power and/or finesse). Jordan stans trying to divert the topic because yall know lebron finishes at the rim like a big man with his high eff:oldlol:

[c5terror]

jordan's posters are nice. like up there with some of the greatest. just not up to par with lebron - who's dunks are with pure power and ferocity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2KWqOLNLA
defenition of power you can hear the sound of the rim

[c5terror]

this thread wasn't about posters:biggums: It was about who finishes at the rim better and how they do it (power and/or finesse). Jordan stans trying to divert the topic because yall know lebron finishes at the rim like a big man with his high eff:oldlol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk
there lots of finishes at the rim here that is 100x better than any of Lebron :oldlol: I know you got no guts to watch this LOL.

[Hoopz2332]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2KWqOLNLA
defenition of power you can hear the sound of the rim


:oldlol: this is the sound of power

Lebron James MONSTER Dunk On the Mavericks 03-01-2007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqD-JoDgKao&hd=1

[3ball]

this thread wasn't about posters:biggums: It was about who finishes at the rim better and how they do it (power and/or finesse). Jordan stans trying to divert the topic because yall know lebron finishes at the rim like a big man with his high eff:oldlol:

so you refuse the poster-for-poster challenge.

that means "i can't win this argument, but i'm going to waste everyone's time."



you lebron fans are truly pathetic, ignoramuses about the game that just say whatever will prop up your star.

i'm out... when you think lebron can **** with poster frequency seen below, maybe we can talk again - but we know he never will....

With lebron's low rate of poster-frequency (due largely to a lack of explosion off two legs), it would literally take him 4 or 5 careers to amass this level of physical domination of paint defense.


GIF's OF 105 CHEST-TO-CHEST POSTERS BY MICHAEL JORDAN (almost all in the halfcourt)


Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797)
Random Posters 1 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508118&postcount=237)
Random Posters 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512996&postcount=255)
Random Posters 3 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10487292&postcount=48)
Random Posters 4 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10494322&postcount=198)
Random Posters 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10513143&postcount=256)
Random Posters 6 (for 6) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86)
Old-Man Chest-to-Chest Posters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512074&postcount=27)
Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395)
Various Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40)
.

[c5terror]

:oldlol: this is the sound of power

Lebron James MONSTER Dunk On the Mavericks 03-01-2007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqD-JoDgKao&hd=1
still no match to this:oldlol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqkcEthV0Gg

[Hoopz2332]

so you refuse the poster-for-poster challenge.

that means "i can't win this argument, but i'm going to waste everyone's time."



.


stop diverting the topic:oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

still no match to this:oldlol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqkcEthV0Gg

where the power at?

LeBron James HUGE Alley Oop SLAM vs Celtics Season Opener 08-09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UK5hJChGI8&hd=1

hear that sound?:oldlol:

[c5terror]

where the power at?

LeBron James HUGE Alley Oop SLAM vs Celtics Season Opener 08-09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UK5hJChGI8&hd=1

hear that sound?:oldlol:

Yeah i can hear, I can also see a wide open dunk LOL.
Not any better than this:oldlol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXZRV7tO6c

[Inactive]

MJ was much better at finishing dunks through contact. He has way more posters than Lebron. Lebron can't elevate over guys off one step the way Jordan could; he's not an explosive leaper off two feet.

What Lebron can do, is finish a layup after taking a bump, or even being wrapped up. He's probably the GOAT perimeter player at that. That's why he puts up Shaq/Barkley numbers at the rim, despite his inferior dunking ability in comparison to MJ.

[c5terror]

:oldlol: this is the sound of power

Lebron James MONSTER Dunk On the Mavericks 03-01-2007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqD-JoDgKao&hd=1

LOL this is the sound of power
Shaq miss free throw..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_8_7gorEug

LOL board/rim has mic tsk. tsk unlike before.

[Paul George 24]

where the power at?

LeBron James HUGE Alley Oop SLAM vs Celtics Season Opener 08-09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UK5hJChGI8&hd=1

hear that sound?:oldlol:

WEAK:lol

[Paul George 24]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1098728/lebron-layup-h.gif

WEAK:lol

[c5terror]

WEAK:lol

They put mic into the rim in todays league unlike in 80's and 90's

You can hear Shaq miss free thrown hitting the rim louder than lebron dunk in his post :oldlol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_8_7gorEug

[lilteapot]

A surefire way to tell which poster possesses a subhuman level of intelligence: how often they use :lol

[f0und]

jordan by far

[c5terror]

40 year old MJ
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/P1YO7C.gif

Vs heat
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/TpBUju.gif

[lilteapot]

40 year old MJ
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/P1YO7C.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/P1YO7C)

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/avQCmS.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/avQCmS)
you do realize he missed the layup in the 2nd gif right? you fking idiot :roll:

[c5terror]

you do realize he missed the layup in the 2nd gif right? you fking idiot :roll:
no but i'll change it

[aj1987]

you do realize he missed the layup in the 2nd gif right? you fking idiot :roll:
:oldlol:

[beastee]

50% of being a better finisher is your inside post game and baseline skillset. Lebron is weak at both, while Jordan is the best post up guard in NBA history. His skill throughout his career ranged from power moves to unbelievable finesse and touch.

Lebron can put down one hell of a tomahawk dunk and is nearly unstoppable with a head of steam, but man it looks ugly most of the time. His footwork has always been subpar and is why MJ wins hands down.

[Hoopz2332]

50% of being a better finisher is your inside post game and baseline skillset. Lebron is weak at both, while Jordan is the best post up guard in NBA history. His skill throughout his career ranged from power moves to unbelievable finesse and touch.

Lebron can put down one hell of a tomahawk dunk and is nearly unstoppable with a head of steam, but man it looks ugly most of the time. His footwork has always been subpar and is why MJ wins hands down.

people talking about aesthetics and not actual eff-numbers:facepalm :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10619926&postcount=118


:biggums:

Lebron James is the literally one of the best if not the best all time at finishing at the rim. Volume and efficiency. It really isnt even close compared to other perimeter players. And I want someone to prove me otherwise. The only people with comparable rim numbers to Lebron James are Charles Barkley, Shaq, and mabye other centers or big power fowards like Malone.

Kobe Bryant? :facepalm

http://static.basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/grant_r_LeBron_ShotChart.jpg

LeBron James (2013-14) *Including Playoffs

335/437 FG (76.7%), 4.51 Attempts Per Game



Charles Barkley (84 Game Sample)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=312709

467/574 FG (81.4%), 6.83 Attempts Per Game



Shaquille O'Neal (1999-00) *Transition data unavailable

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...one-mode=basic

571/763 FG (74.8%), 9.66 Attempts Per Game

[c5terror]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/TpBUju.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/JmM9Re.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/mk75yQ.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/OXTYka.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/QoRwAF.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/R5te8P.gif

[beastee]

people talking about aesthetics and not actual eff-numbers:facepalm :oldlol:


Oh. I am so sorry. I didn't know this thread was titled "better finisher - Lebron, because this is a bait thread using solely stats to back up our point." Had I known that, I would have just skipped it.

[c5terror]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/TpBUju.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/JmM9Re.gif

Lebron can only dream of this as he travel everytime he try anyone of this
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/mk75yQ.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/OXTYka.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/QoRwAF.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/R5te8P.gif

Lebron dreaming this everytime

[Hoopz2332]

Oh. I am so sorry. I didn't know this thread was titled "better finisher - Lebron, because this is a bait thread using solely stats to back up our point." Had I known that, I would have just skipped it.


this thread was started by a lebron hater:biggums:

[ralph_i_el]

50% of being a better finisher is your inside post game and baseline skillset. Lebron is weak at both, while Jordan is the best post up guard in NBA history. His skill throughout his career ranged from power moves to unbelievable finesse and touch.

Lebron can put down one hell of a tomahawk dunk and is nearly unstoppable with a head of steam, but man it looks ugly most of the time. His footwork has always been subpar and is why MJ wins hands down.

so weak that he led the league in points per possession from the post!


He's just so weak that the other teams must be letting him score.

[Hoopz2332]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/OXTYka.gif

unless Im going blind, MJ didn't finish the play in this gif:oldlol:

[c5terror]

people talking about aesthetics and not actual eff-numbers:facepalm :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10619926&postcount=118

98% of that 4.51 attempt were open dunk :oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

98% of that 4.51 attempt were open dunk :oldlol:

lebron at the rim > Jordan at the rim

[c5terror]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-14-2014/OXTYka.gif

unless Im going blind, MJ didn't finish the play in this gif:oldlol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64QB8_OB0pg
instant replay 2:35 then you're blind :oldlol:

[c5terror]

MJ at the rim > Lebron at the rim
Fix

[ralph_i_el]

98% of that 4.51 attempt were open dunk :oldlol:
1353 shots last season
39.9% were at the rim

That's 540 shots at the rim
and 134 made dunks
out of 430 made shots at the rim

[Hoopz2332]

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/852384585.gif

http://newyorkknicksmemesdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/scalynaughtygodwit.gif

[lilteapot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64QB8_OB0pg
instant replay 2:35 then you're blind :oldlol:


lmao you of all people shouldn't be calling other people blind son

[c5terror]

1353 shots last season
39.9% were at the rim

That's 540 shots at the rim
and 134 made dunks
out of 430 made shots at the rim

then 98% of that 4.51 attempt were open dunk and open layup?
may be i'm wrong may be its 99% open dunk and open layup.

[lilteapot]

then 98% of that 4.51 attempt were open dunk and open layup?
may be i'm wrong may be its 99% open dunk and open layup.
Are your parents brother and sister?

[ralph_i_el]

then 98% of that 4.51 attempt were open dunk and open layup?
may be i'm wrong may be its 99% open dunk and open layup.

oh, I should have known you're a complete ****** cow****er

[c5terror]

lmao you of all people shouldn't be calling other people blind son
he's the one who call himself blind not me:oldlol:
but anyway
i can do what ever i want dude and i don't give a shit LOL

[ralph_i_el]

i don't give a shit

well that's obvious. Otherwise you'd stop saying stupid shit

[lilteapot]

well that's obvious. Otherwise you'd stop saying stupid shit
he's pretty much 3ball but with a brain tumor

[c5terror]

oh, I should have known you're a complete ****** cow****er

lol don't be mad I'm just a little drunk and burning time trolling for a bit before I go to sleep.

[ralph_i_el]

he's pretty much 3ball but with a brain tumor

:applause: rep

[3ball]

.
No 3's or Def 3 Secs So Defenders WAITED for Jordan in Paint:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/4e18ee448359e9ac72c45204f81452a5.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/6bf38553ecf11f28d615cee1d3e2d06b.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Goat_Skill_bf583bc986f5cc7cf7d8a49cae0bfe7e .gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_quadruple_pump_7d9c8b7725e19d0b4904871b5b43 c902.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dropstep_dunks_over_bar_8a0fc3e5bb54358a36b 23126fd6c46a0.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Goat_Ability_ac1e53e3c47372cda8a8f82149579b 4e.gif

[3ball]

.
Contrary to Jordan's GIF's above ^^^^^^^^^^^, lebron's GIF's itt are just him beating the defense to the spot (because of the great spacing that forces defenders to cover more ground).

lebron's GIF's just show him already in his shooting motion by the time the defender reaches him and tries to wrap him up.

he doesn't have to finish over defenders that are WAITING for him nearly as much as Jordan did because today's 3-point shooting and defensive 3 seconds clears the paint of defenders.

also, with lebron's low rate of poster-frequency (due largely to a lack of explosion off two legs), it would take him literally 4 or 5 careers to amass this level of physical domination of paint defense:


GIF's OF 105 CHEST-TO-CHEST POSTERS BY MICHAEL JORDAN (almost all in the halfcourt)

Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797)
Random Posters 1 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508118&postcount=237)
Random Posters 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512996&postcount=255)
Random Posters 3 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10487292&postcount=48)
Random Posters 4 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10494322&postcount=198)
Random Posters 5 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10513143&postcount=256)
Random Posters 6 (for 6) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86)
Old-Man Chest-to-Chest Posters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10512074&postcount=27)
Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395)
Various Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs) (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40)

[ralph_i_el]

.
No 3's or Def 3 Secs So Defenders WAITED for Jordan in Paint:


Most people that seriously follow basketball would not agree that the paint today is clearer. On the contrary, teams play more zone than ever before, which is why you can't survive on O if you don't have enough floor spacers.

3 second rule means nothing. Rarely called, and it resets if you step 1 foot out of the paint, or an offensive player comes near you.

[3ball]

Most people that seriously follow basketball would not agree that the paint today is clearer.


it's common knowledge that 3-point shooting clears the paint.

and the NBA itself has stated many times that the intention of defensive 3 seconds was to "open up the game"... it says it on their own website.

but by all means, ignore the facts and keep thinking people are blind and don't know anything about basketball.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

MJ is the GOAT IMO but people do realize that doesn't mean he's the best at every single aspect of basketball. Hell it doesn't even mean he's the best at a single aspect of it.

Finishing at the rim is literally what makes LeBron James LeBron James. It is by FAR his best skill.

[3ball]

MJ is the GOAT IMO but people do realize that doesn't mean he's the best at every single aspect of basketball.

Finishing at the rim is literally what makes LeBron James LeBron James. It is by FAR his best skill.
your post doesn't make any sense.

if jordan is the goat as you said he is, then i'm assuming you think he finished better at the rim than lebron.... because that is what Jordan did best... it's the main category that Jordan is better than Lebron in.

Jordan's superior at-rim finishing ability is why he has so many more highlights that are better demonstrations of overpowering paint defense - most of lebron's highlights itt are him scoring while the defense gets there too late and can only reach-in or fly-by.

otoh, Jordan has far more highlights where he overpowers a WAITING defender or multiple defenders - to ignore this factor turns the comparison into a 3rd grade analysis.

"okay, the paint is wide open in today's game, but let's treat lebron's at-rim finishing percentages equally - let's treat an uncontested at-rim shot the same as a contested one"... :hammerhead:

like, this is how most itt think... but obviously, it's a dumb way to think.
.

[ralph_i_el]

it's common knowledge that 3-point shooting clears the paint.

and the NBA itself has stated many times that the intention of defensive 3 seconds was to "open up the game"... it says it on their own website.

but by all means, ignore the facts and keep thinking people are blind and don't know anything about basketball.

Duh 3 point shooting clears the paint, just like zone D fills the paint. 3 second opens up the game more than it would if we had zones and no 3 seconds. You understand that if we had no illegal D AND no 3 seconds then all 5 of your players would have to be able to shoot past 18ft to survive.

Real basketball writers have written extensively on the subject. I've had this argument too many times. If you have a problem take it up with Zach Lowe.

Watch any team that plays less than 3 competant 3 point shooters and see how ugly they look on offense today. The paint will be off-limits.


Bron has played on elite shooting teams the past few years, but part of that is him creating open looks.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The paint was WAY more crowded on average in the mid 80's-early 90's than it is today. Let's get real here. Anyone with eyes can see this.

[3ball]

.

Here's all of Lebron's dunks in 2013-2014... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJNe550OrZM

THEY ARE ALL WIDE OPEN - ONLY THREE POSTERS THE ENTIRE YEAR!!!!!.... (reach ins and fly-bys don't count)





Here's all of Lebron's dunks from the 2012-2013 season... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6abQGCtkTg

THEY ARE ALL WIDE OPEN AGAIN - ONLY TWO POSTERS THE ENTIRE YEAR!!!!





Look at Jordan's dunks from 1987.... it's like night and day.... no three-pointers and no defensive 3 seconds so the paint was packed and Jordan was FORCED to go over and through defenders... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=1m50s




but let's act like lebron getting to do wide open dunks is the same as Jordan having to go over and through people.... :hammerhead:
.

[ralph_i_el]

.

Here's all of lebron's dunks in 2013-2014... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJNe550OrZM

THEY ARE ALL WIDE OPEN - ONLY THREE POSTERS THE ENTIRE YEAR!!!!!.... (reach ins and fly-bys don't count)





Here's all of Lebron's dunks from the 2012-2013 season... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6abQGCtkTg

THEY ARE ALL WIDE OPEN AGAIN - ONLY TWO POSTERS THE ENTIRE YEAR!!!!





Look at Jordan's dunks from 1987.... it's like night and day.... no three-pointers and no defensive 3 seconds so the paint was packed and Jordan was FORCED to go over and through defenders... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=1m50s




but let's act like lebron getting to do wide open dunks is the same as Jordan having to go over and through people.... :hammerhead:
.
How'd that work out in the playoffs for MJ that year?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

your post doesn't make any sense.

if jordan is the goat as you said he is, then i'm assuming you think he finished better at the rim than lebron.... because that is what Jordan did best... it's the main category that Jordan is better than Lebron in.

No. What I said makes perfect sense. Let me give you an example:

Reggie Miller was a great player. Much better than Kyle Korver. 3 point shooting is what Reggie Miller did best. Yet Kyle Korver is a better 3 point shooter.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

And secondly i've seen you post this nonsense about defensive 3 in the key somehow making it easier for players today but you do realize that before defensive 3 in the key it was defensive 0 in the key. As in you couldn't legally zone off your man and stand in the key. This is why we see so many more hard double teams in the 90s era games (and less soft doubles).

[3ball]

the nba stated many times that the defensive 3 seconds was to "open up the game".

so i'll take their word over yours, plus that of many other NBA execs... plus the eye test showing me that today's paint is wide open as a standard on every possession.

[3ball]

No. What I said makes perfect sense. Let me give you an example:

Reggie Miller was a great player. Much better than Kyle Korver. 3 point shooting is what Reggie Miller did best. Yet Kyle Korver is a better 3 point shooter.

I understood the logic, I just think the chances are negligible that someone could be better than the goat at the thing the goat did best, so i was wondering why you would bring up it up.


But anyway, now we are looking at how in order for Lebron to get his 140 dunks, he only has to dunk over 2-3 guys all year...




Here's all of Lebron's dunks in 2013-2014... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJNe550OrZM

THEY ARE ALL WIDE OPEN - ONLY THREE POSTERS THE ENTIRE YEAR!!!!!.... (reach ins and fly-bys don't count)





Here's all of Lebron's dunks from the 2012-2013 season... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6abQGCtkTg

THEY ARE ALL WIDE OPEN AGAIN - ONLY TWO POSTERS THE ENTIRE YEAR!!!!





Look at Jordan's dunks from 1987.... it's like night and day.... no three-pointers and no defensive 3 seconds so the paint was packed and Jordan was FORCED to go over and through defenders... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=1m50s




but let's act like lebron getting to do wide open dunks is the same as Jordan having to go over and through people... :hammerhead:

[3ball]

^^^^^^^^^^^ can we seriously act like lebron getting to do wide open dunks is the same as Jordan having to go over and through people???

[ralph_i_el]

the nba stated many times that the defensive 3 seconds was to "open up the game".

so i'll take their word over yours, plus that of many other NBA execs... plus the eye test showing me that today's paint is wide open as a standard on every possession.
Well obviously they had to do something when they got rid of illegal D :facepalm
With illegal D you could put 4 guys on one side of the floor and iso on the other.

Keep on spamming the same shit and quoting your own posts.

MJ mythologists will tell you that every aspect of the NBA today is worse and none of the stars today could hold a candle to the 90's. How can anyone take you seriously when every post is just biased agenda?

And are we even watching the same video? Most of those MJ dunks he's untouched. The paint is clogged in a lot of them....because his own bigs are standing in the paint lol.

[OldSchoolBBall]

And secondly i've seen you post this nonsense about defensive 3 in the key somehow making it easier for players today but you do realize that before defensive 3 in the key it was defensive 0 in the key. As in you couldn't legally zone off your man and stand in the key. This is why we see so many more hard double teams in the 90s era games (and less soft doubles).

...which didn't matter because all PF's and C's were playing in the paint anyway, so defenders were always in the paint. There were no stretch 4/5's like today to create spacing until the mid-90's.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

...which didn't matter because all PF's and C's were playing in the paint anyway, so defenders were always in the paint. There were no stretch 4/5's like today to create spacing until the mid-90's.
This is true. However what he said is not.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Not as many 3 point campers either to help space the floor. That didn't start taking true precedence until the mid 2000's. Finishing isn't just about strength, or size of someone either. It's applicable strength, body dexterity, ambidextrous hands, touch, finesse, craftiness, and determination.

[ArbitraryWater]

I actually enjoy the fact this thread was made now...

It really illustrates how superior LeBron was to MJ in terms of overall finishing, and how slim the elite category is up there (Chuck, Shaq).

[SamuraiSWISH]

It really illustrates how superior LeBron was to MJ in terms of overall finishing, and how slim the elite category is up there (Chuck, Shaq).
:oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

:oldlol:
^3balls main account

[mehyaM24]

lebron has more power, ferocity, speed, athleticism , jumping ability etc. its not really close when you combine these aspects and the fact, lebron is a more efficient player around the hoop.

jordan has great aesthetics around the rim , lebron has that, more power and better results.

people should just listen to barkley break down the 2. GOAT analysis.

^3balls main account
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