On-Ball and Off-Ball Passers: Bird, Lebron and Jordan

[3ball]

I think Bird, Lebron, and Jordan are all in the same class of passing - they all average about the same assists (6.5, 6.4, and 5.7 per game in playoffs, respectively... by contrast, Magic Johnson averaged 12.3 per game).

It's interesting, because Jordan and Bird were off-ball passers - they played off-ball and got their assists that way.

Lebron is more of an on-ball player and assister, and that's why people view him as such a great passer - he simply plays point guard a lot more than an off-ball player like Jordan did.

But it's interesting because when Jordan DID play point guard, he actually DID have Magic Johnson-level assist-averages (24-game stretch at PG starting on March 11, 1989 (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games) through the rest of the season where he averaged 30.4 points, 9.2 rebs, 10.9 assists (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-345-sum:pgl_basic))...

So while Jordan had Magic Johnson-level assist averages the times he played primarily on-ball, Lebron has always been an on-ball, point-guard type player but has always had more off-ball, Jordan/Bird-type assist averages.

The real question is what style is more successful?.... Clearly, Jordan and Bird's off-ball style had more success... And we know Jordan's off-ball style was more efficient by producing more points per 100 possessions (ORtg) than Lebron's on-ball style (MJ's 120 ORtg > Lebron's 116).

From a straight passing standpoint, assists achieved using an inferior style shouldn't be respected as much - anyone can go out there and employ a style designed to rack up numbers... And certainly, Lebron's 6.4 assist average in the playoffs has had less impact in generating positive results (2/5), than Jordan's 5.7 assist-average did (6/6).
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[ralph_i_el]

From a straight passing standpoint, assists achieved using an inferior style shouldn't be respected as much - anyone can go out there and employ a style designed to rack up numbers... And certainly, Lebron's 6.4 assist average in the playoffs has had less impact in generating positive results (2/5), than Jordan's 5.7 assist-average did (6/6).
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:rolleyes:

btw
MJ didn't have a career 120 Ortg in the regular season or playoffs.

4200th post. I quit



more cherry picking by 3ball below me. I think I'm honestly retiring from this forum. seems like a good stopping point

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

btw
MJ didn't have a career 120 Ortg in the regular season or playoffs.
In 13 seasons as a Chicago Bull, MJ had a 120 ORtg - which is relevant because Lebron's 116 ORtg is from his first 11 seasons.

So it makes not sense to include his Wizards years, even though his ORtg is still higher WITH those two seasons - it's still 118, higher than Lebron's 116.

Even though the two Wizards years pull down his averages a ton, the averages remain the highest ever (WS/48, PER, PPG), just not by as much.
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[Dragic4Life]

Jordan doesn't belong.:facepalm

Sure he's the GOAT (for now), but passing wise he is NOWHERE close to Lebron, Bird or Magic.

[3ball]

it should be noted that Magic Johnson's playoff career assist average was 12.3.

bird, lebron and jordan's was 6.5, 6.4 and 5.7, respectively.

[swagga]

I think Jordan, Bird, and Lebron are all in the same class of passing - they all average about the same assists.

It's interesting, because Jordan and Bird were off-ball passers - they played off-ball and got their assists that way.

Lebron is more of an on-ball player and assister, and that's why people view him as such a great passer - he simply plays point guard a lot more than an off-ball player like Jordan did.

But it's interesting because when Jordan DID play point guard, he actually DID have Magic Johnson-level assist-averages (24-game stretch at PG starting on March 11, 1989 (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games) through the rest of the season where he averaged 30.4 points, 9.2 rebs, 10.9 assists (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-345-sum:pgl_basic))...

So while Jordan had Magic Johnson-level assist averages the times he played primarily on-ball, Lebron has always been an on-ball, point-guard type player but has always had more off-ball, Jordan/Bird-type assist averages.

The real question is what style is more successful?.... Clearly, Jordan and Bird's off-ball style had more success... And we know Jordan's off-ball style was more efficient by producing more points per 100 possessions (ORtg) than Lebron's on-ball style (MJ's 120 ORtg > Lebron's 116).

From a straight passing standpoint, assists achieved using an inferior style shouldn't be respected as much - anyone can go out there and employ a style designed to rack up numbers... And certainly, Lebron's 6.4 assist average in the playoffs has had less impact in generating positive results (2/5), than Jordan's 5.7 assist-average did (6/6).
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A+ for effort, people will take the bait.:roll:

[3ball]

A+ for effort, people will take the bait.:roll:
it's a true statement - lebron plays on-ball as the primary ballhandler much more than jordan and bird did.

[Real Men Wear Green]

What the **** is an off-ball passer? Stop making topics.