Christopher Columbus

[Nanners]

Why do we have a holiday dedicated to this asshole?



On his second trip to the New World, Columbus brought cannons and attack dogs. If a native resisted slavery, he would cut off a nose or an ear. If slaves tried to escape, Columbus had them burned alive. Other times, he sent attack dogs to hunt them down, and the dogs would tear off the arms and legs of the screaming natives while they were still alive.

Columbus' acts of cruelty were so unspeakable and so legendary - even in his own day - that Governor Francisco De Bobadilla arrested Columbus and his two brothers, slapped them into chains, and shipped them off to Spain to answer for their crimes against the Arawaks. But the King and Queen of Spain, their treasury filling up with gold, pardoned Columbus and let him go free.

One of Columbus' men, Bartolome De Las Casas, was so mortified by Columbus' brutal atrocities against the native peoples, that he quit working for Columbus and became a Catholic priest. He described how the Spaniards under Columbus' command cut off the legs of children who ran from them, to test the sharpness of their blades. According to De Las Casas, the men made bets as to who, with one sweep of his sword, could cut a person in half. He says that Columbus' men poured people full of boiling soap. In a single day, De Las Casas was an eye witness as the Spanish soldiers dismembered, beheaded, or raped 3000 native people.

"Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight as no age can parallel," De Las Casas wrote. "My eyes have seen these acts so foreign to human nature that now I tremble as I write."

[L.Kizzle]

Take your off-day and be happy with it.

[Nanners]

If we are going to celebrate Columbus we might as well set aside a holiday for Hitler too

[~primetime~]

This thread was done like a year ago...but yeah Columbus was an awful human


I've never really "celebrated" his holiday or received a day off for it, so if we got rid of it makes no difference to me...

[DeuceWallaces]

Unless you work for the Feds or you're expecting a package you probably didn't even know it was a holiday.

[the mesiah]

Same reason why they got one for michael king jr

[L.Kizzle]

If we are going to celebrate Columbus we might as well set aside a holiday for Hitler too
But who actually celebrates this day though? It's just an off day for some people. I don't see houses decorated with boats in the yard. Schools should stop teaching kids that shit though. I remember learing a song in like first grade "in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue."

[Nanners]

But who actually celebrates this day though? It's just an off day for some people. I don't see houses decorated with boats in the yard. Schools should stop teaching kids that shit though. I remember learing a song in like first grade "in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue."

obviously nobody literally celebrates it the way people celebrate other holidays, but still its a federal holiday which means public schools and other govt operations get shut down for the day.

the other federal holidays actually make sense, but columbus day should not exist.

[HitandRun Reggie]

Same reason why they got one for michael king jr

Yeah but Michael King has had a much bigger impact on current day America vs Columbus. And you can't compare plagiarism, sex with prostitutes, maybe a little assault on women, with slavery and cutting off people's body parts.

[Draz]

There's usually always a thread about this every year. It's good to be open about the truth.

[longtime lurker]

Christianity. Dat religion of peace :oldlol:

[HitandRun Reggie]

True. I forgot about it until I saw a flier for Columbus Day deals at my grocery store.


You must not have a Windows phone.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Christianity. Dat religion of peace :oldlol:

Wasn't Columbus a so-called "catholic"?

[SugarHill]

Christianity. Dat religion of peace :oldlol:
:oldlol:

[HomieWeMajor]

America have a holiday dedicated to a TV character ? :wtf: Lemme see how many bites I get

[gigantes]

Why do we have a holiday dedicated to this asshole?
maybe it's just as well to keep it, since it's symbolic of what euros did to this once unspoiled continent. :confusedshrug:

it's also a monumentally historic date... one might argue along with the renaissance as a whole, the most significant one in modern history.

also, cutting the other way, there's also the sheer accomplishment of the deed. columbus' feat was audacious, brave and foolhardy like few in recorded history. and perhaps his cruel, half-crazed nature went hand in hand with his accomplishment... a nice little lesson for posterity.

[L.Kizzle]

It's a date whitey keeps in it's back pocket to let everyone else know what they did in the past what they're still capable of doing. Taking something not there's and profiting off of it.

[kentatm]

Wasn't Columbus a so-called "catholic"?

Catholic's are OG Christians brah

[gts]

obviously nobody literally celebrates it the way people celebrate other holidays, but still its a federal holiday which means public schools and other govt operations get shut down for the day.

the other federal holidays actually make sense, but columbus day should not exist.


My kids went to school today...

[Nanners]

My kids went to school today...

i remember getting the day off for columbus day when i was a kid, but that was many years ago so maybe its changed.

[gts]

i remember getting the day off for columbus day when i was a kid, but that was many years ago so maybe its changed.
I think it's optional?

our district doesn't observe it, but I'm sure there are those that still do.

[Jailblazers7]

Unless you work for the Feds or you're expecting a package you probably didn't even know it was a holiday.

I ended up getting screwed by it because the DMV was closed and I needed to renew my license. But they were closed for it on Saturday which made it worse.

[ROCSteady]

Redundant Nanners. Go figure.

[BRabbiT]

If we are going to celebrate Columbus we might as well set aside a holiday for Hitler too


:lol

[Rasheed1]

Catholic's are OG Christians brah

word up.. the mob is catholic...who is only ring finger you hear of a mob boss kissing???

The pope..

The only master the mob has is the church..

[Pushxx]

The US was founded by people that had slaves and didn't allow women to vote.

Should we stop celebrating July 4th, too?

Enjoy your holiday, dude.

[iamgine]

If we are going to celebrate Columbus we might as well set aside a holiday for Hitler too
I wouldn't mind that. Maybe add Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, Polpot, Che, Gandhi, Diana, Michael Jackson, George Bush too. More holiday = better.

[L.Kizzle]

The US was founded by people that had slaves and didn't allow women to vote.

Should we stop celebrating July 4th, too?

Enjoy your holiday, dude.
:biggums:

[MadeFromDust]

He was a great man who discovered America. What history books did they feed you at your shortbus school?

[Patrick Chewing]

The US was founded by people that had slaves and didn't allow women to vote.

Should we stop celebrating July 4th, too?

Enjoy your holiday, dude.


We must pay the price! How dare we think we are deserving of this land?? This land belongs to the indigenous people! And the Muslims!

[gigantes]

We must pay the price! How dare we think we are deserving of this land?? This land belongs to the indigenous people! And the Muslims!
for starters, it would be nice not to be arrogant and entitled about the whole situation.

but if this land 'belongs' to anyone in particular, i nominate those who can live with it sustainably... something the indigenous ppl demonstrated they could do and we have demonstrated that we cannot.

[Patrick Chewing]

for starters, it would be nice not to be arrogant and entitled about the whole situation.

but if this land 'belongs' to anyone in particular, i nominate those who can live with it sustainably... something the indigenous ppl demonstrated they could do and we have demonstrated that we cannot.

What makes you think we have not been able to live sustainably??

[MadeFromDust]

We must pay the price! How dare we think we are deserving of this land?? This land belongs to the indigenous people! And the Muslims!
But...

#NotAllMoslems

[gigantes]

What makes you think we have not been able to live sustainably??
uh.... the body of news reports, scientific findings, and evidence all around us.


do you live in a cave with an internet connection?

[TaLvsCuaL]

Judge the past with current thinking does not make sense. We can not ask people who lived in another time, with another moral and other values ​​behave according to the thoughts of the present. Also history is written by the victors and there is many agendas trying to diminish the spanish empire.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I worked today. Our school didn't have it off.

We should all celebrate by walking into someone else's house and telling them we own it now.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Judge the past with current thinking does not make sense. We can not ask people who lived in another time, with another moral and other values ​​behave according to the thoughts of the present. Also history is written by the victors and there is many agendas trying to diminish the spanish empire.

Which still wouldn't explain why when I was a kid in the U.S. we had a national holiday that meant schools and the Fed. were shut down. This has always been of some fascination to me. I never understood why Columbus had the rep. he did when I was growing up.

[iamgine]

We should all celebrate by walking into casinos and telling them we own it now.
Fixed

[Patrick Chewing]

uh.... the body of news reports, scientific findings, and evidence all around us.


do you live in a cave with an internet connection?


Educate me. I'll be here all night.

[Nanners]

Stop making a big deal out of it and just treat it as a celebration of what Columbus symbolizes—the start of steady colonization in the new world— rather than a celebration of his character. Explorer's day just doesn't have the same ring to it as Columbus day.

If MLK was a wifebeater it would make him a lot less likeable and respectable as a human being but would it take away from his lifelong work in the Civil Rights movement?

I think Explorers day sounds kind of nice.

If MLK had been a slaver responsible for ending the lives of thousands of innocent people in cruel and sadistic ways, then I would be saying we shouldnt have a MLK day.

[iamgine]

It was celebrating his discovery of America, not the slaughter.

Simple as that.

Like if we ever have Obama day it would be celebrating the first time in the US a black man become president, not what he does during presidency or anything else.

[L.Kizzle]

It was celebrating his discovery of America, not the slaughter.

Simple as that.

Like if we ever have Obama day it would be celebrating the first time in the US a black man become president, not what he does during presidency or anything else.
But he didn't discover anything.

[iamgine]

But he didn't discover anything.
That's beside the point.

[L.Kizzle]

That's beside the point.
What are we celebrating?

[iamgine]

What are we celebrating?
Columbus discovery of America.

[russwest0]

Columbus discovery of America.

So discovering where other people live and are enjoying their lives, and then ****ing up their world is worthy of getting your own day now?

Shit, looks like I gotta do some douchey shit to get my own day now... :lol

[iamgine]

So discovering where other people live and are enjoying their lives, and then ****ing up their world is worthy of getting your own day now?

Shit, looks like I gotta do some douchey shit to get my own day now... :lol
Naw just the discovering America part.

Also, as Kizzle said, he didn't actually discover anything. But that's beside the point and an entirely different topic.

[L.Kizzle]

Columbus discovery of America.
Dammit what will whitey tell us next? That Jesus is white lol.

[iamgine]

Dammit what will whitey tell us next? That Jesus is white lol.
Maybe/maybe not

[L.Kizzle]

Maybe/maybe not
Make up all of these shitty days to take our money.

mothers day
father day
grandparents day
bosses day ... the fck
valentine's day
national donut day

[russwest0]

Make up all of these shitty days to take our money.

mothers day
father day
grandparents day
bosses day ... the fck
valentine's day
national donut day

hey, you can't forget christmas dude.

black people literally had no idea who this supposed "jesus" guy was before slavery.

it's weird how that works out

[NumberSix]

But he didn't discover anything.
Of course he did. The Americas were largely unknown to the "known world". And the people who were already there were oblivious to where in the world they were.

[iamgine]

Of course he did. The Americas were largely unknown to the "known world". And the people who were already there were oblivious to where in the world they were.
Both points are true, just from different perspective.

[Dresta]

It was celebrating his discovery of America, not the slaughter.

Simple as that.

Like if we ever have Obama day it would be celebrating the first time in the US a black man become president, not what he does during presidency or anything else.
That's really all it is, symbolic. What Columbus actually did is largely irrelevant because 95%+ of people know very little or nothing about him and his life, and it's gonna stay that way.

During that period in history it should also be noted that ship captains were routinely barbarous tyrants who held absolute power over their crews. This is nothing new, but op thinks he's treading new territory for some reason.

And as i've said before, this shows how much more brutal the Spanish treatment of the natives was compared to the English. You'd much rather be a native in North America than South, that's for sure.


for starters, it would be nice not to be arrogant and entitled about the whole situation.

but if this land 'belongs' to anyone in particular, i nominate those who can live with it sustainably... something the indigenous ppl demonstrated they could do and we have demonstrated that we cannot.
Right, because it's only been inhabited by us for some 400 years, and the US Constitution is only the longest lasting national constitution in existence. I don't get your point here: are you saying we'd be better off if the European had never bothered with more advanced farming methods? Was that the point of no return? Not to mention that industrialisation wasn't caused by the United States (in fact it was a bit late and a bit reluctant due to the country's strong agrarian tradition). You could've left the American continent completely untouched and the contemporary environmental problems would still be exactly the same in nature.

The American continent was never going to remain inhabited by such a primitive and largely nomadic population indefinitely. Unfortunately for them, the near-extinction of the native American peoples was an unplanned historical inevitability. Unfortunate for them, yes, but it's been massively beneficial for the rest of the world (we're talking concrete facts here, not entirely speculative doomsday scenarios). I also don't think you appreciate what an abysmal existence being a Native American was (most wouldn't survive childhood, if you did you'd still be lucky to get to 30, most people dying of their teeth and in agony). I didn't know there was anything so hot about sustainable misery, but i guess if it preserves the planet anything would be worth it, eh?

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the US assimilated the cast-offs of Europe - often from the dirtier and more unpleasant parts of Europe - who would have suffered toiled and possibly died without this land to escape to. Not only was the US assimilating 750,000 immigrants a year (so many that the socialist and human-lover HG Wells despaired at the degradation caused to American society by this), but it was doing so without any perceptive drop in wages, in fact for most, living standards were constantly rising even while such a massive assimilation was taking place. The US long stood as an example to people round the world and as a symbol of the freedom and prosperity they could themselves obtain (this is why Marx and Engels adored the US - it was a beacon of light for them in a dark world - and abhorred the backwards Russia), and more recently, it has long been a protective force for European nations with traditions of liberty against those who desire conquest and expansion. Without this counterbalancing American power i shudder to think where Europe would be right now.

So no: the land 'belongs' to the people who've actually done something with it.

[L.Kizzle]

hey, you can't forget christmas dude.

black people literally had no idea who this supposed "jesus" guy was before slavery.

it's weird how that works out
Which points back to whitey.

[JohnnySic]

Change it to Native American Day. Done.

[ieballer3]

I agree. In the long run I guess the Holocaust will also be looked upon as a positive for human history. And slavery. Maybe child molestation aswell

I hope you're not being sarcastic. Without the hallowcost, there would be no isreal; without slavery, there would be no 'murica and without child molestation, there would be no roman catholic church. Hell, without rape, i wouldn't be here (which is why i celebrate my mother's rape every year). Maybe dresta is on to something.... Colombus? 'MURICA? FAUX YEAH!! :rockon:

[HitandRun Reggie]

http://blog.theregularguynyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2d2.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/08702e6b8aa53ac28c2c2d5cb7d94b85/tumblr_mj0oa1qM0o1re204ao1_500.gif


:rockon:

[nightprowler10]

Of course he did. The Americas were largely unknown to the "known world".
Except the Vikings.

[gigantes]

Right, because it's only been inhabited by us for some 400 years, and the US Constitution is only the longest lasting national constitution in existence. I don't get your point here: are you saying we'd be better off if the European had never bothered with more advanced farming methods? Was that the point of no return? Not to mention that industrialisation wasn't caused by the United States (in fact it was a bit late and a bit reluctant due to the country's strong agrarian tradition). You could've left the American continent completely untouched and the contemporary environmental problems would still be exactly the same in nature.

The American continent was never going to remain inhabited by such a primitive and largely nomadic population indefinitely. Unfortunately for them, the near-extinction of the native American peoples was an unplanned historical inevitability. Unfortunate for them, yes, but it's been massively beneficial for the rest of the world (we're talking concrete facts here, not entirely speculative doomsday scenarios). I also don't think you appreciate what an abysmal existence being a Native American was (most wouldn't survive childhood, if you did you'd still be lucky to get to 30, most people dying of their teeth and in agony). I didn't know there was anything so hot about sustainable misery, but i guess if it preserves the planet anything would be worth it, eh?

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the US assimilated the cast-offs of Europe - often from the dirtier and more unpleasant parts of Europe - who would have suffered toiled and possibly died without this land to escape to. Not only was the US assimilating 750,000 immigrants a year (so many that the socialist and human-lover HG Wells despaired at the degradation caused to American society by this), but it was doing so without any perceptive drop in wages, in fact for most, living standards were constantly rising even while such a massive assimilation was taking place. The US long stood as an example to people round the world and as a symbol of the freedom and prosperity they could themselves obtain (this is why Marx and Engels adored the US - it was a beacon of light for them in a dark world - and abhorred the backwards Russia), and more recently, it has long been a protective force for European nations with traditions of liberty against those who desire conquest and expansion. Without this counterbalancing American power i shudder to think where Europe would be right now.

So no: the land 'belongs' to the people who've actually done something with it.
cherry-picking pontification there, dude... altho you raise some decent, coherent pts amidst the faulty logic and run-ons.

you're looking at this from a very era-perspective POV, which is usual, but..... well, if this thread is still going tomorrow i wouldn't mind replying, then.

[MadeFromDust]

Of course he did. The Americas were largely unknown to the "known world". And the people who were already there were oblivious to where in the world they were.
Oblivious.

[MadeFromDust]

That's really all it is, symbolic. What Columbus actually did is largely irrelevant because 95%+ of people know very little or nothing about him and his life, and it's gonna stay that way.

During that period in history it should also be noted that ship captains were routinely barbarous tyrants who held absolute power over their crews. This is nothing new, but op thinks he's treading new territory for some reason.

And as i've said before, this shows how much more brutal the Spanish treatment of the natives was compared to the English. You'd much rather be a native in North America than South, that's for sure.


Right, because it's only been inhabited by us for some 400 years, and the US Constitution is only the longest lasting national constitution in existence. I don't get your point here: are you saying we'd be better off if the European had never bothered with more advanced farming methods? Was that the point of no return? Not to mention that industrialisation wasn't caused by the United States (in fact it was a bit late and a bit reluctant due to the country's strong agrarian tradition). You could've left the American continent completely untouched and the contemporary environmental problems would still be exactly the same in nature.

The American continent was never going to remain inhabited by such a primitive and largely nomadic population indefinitely. Unfortunately for them, the near-extinction of the native American peoples was an unplanned historical inevitability. Unfortunate for them, yes, but it's been massively beneficial for the rest of the world (we're talking concrete facts here, not entirely speculative doomsday scenarios). I also don't think you appreciate what an abysmal existence being a Native American was (most wouldn't survive childhood, if you did you'd still be lucky to get to 30, most people dying of their teeth and in agony). I didn't know there was anything so hot about sustainable misery, but i guess if it preserves the planet anything would be worth it, eh?

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the US assimilated the cast-offs of Europe - often from the dirtier and more unpleasant parts of Europe - who would have suffered toiled and possibly died without this land to escape to. Not only was the US assimilating 750,000 immigrants a year (so many that the socialist and human-lover HG Wells despaired at the degradation caused to American society by this), but it was doing so without any perceptive drop in wages, in fact for most, living standards were constantly rising even while such a massive assimilation was taking place. The US long stood as an example to people round the world and as a symbol of the freedom and prosperity they could themselves obtain (this is why Marx and Engels adored the US - it was a beacon of light for them in a dark world - and abhorred the backwards Russia), and more recently, it has long been a protective force for European nations with traditions of liberty against those who desire conquest and expansion. Without this counterbalancing American power i shudder to think where Europe would be right now.

So no: the land 'belongs' to the people who've actually done something with it.
Dam. Where is the American flag smiley when you need it?

[MadeFromDust]

Change it to Native American Day. Done.
I've got a better solution...Let the Washington Redskins sell their name and logo to the powers that be who holidate err make holidays for everyone, and then rename Washington, "Discoverers" :lebronamazed:

[MadeFromDust]

I hope you're not being sarcastic. Without the hallowcost, there would be no isreal; without slavery, there would be no 'murica and without child molestation, there would be no roman catholic church. Hell, without rape, i wouldn't be here (which is why i celebrate my mother's rape every year). Maybe dresta is on to something.... Colombus? 'MURICA? FAUX YEAH!! :rockon:Hey, I forced her to say yes beforehand so it can't be rape!

[ieballer3]

Hey, I forced her to say yes beforehand so it can't be rape!

DAT CLASSICAL EUROPEAN CHIVALRY :bowdown:

[Patrick Chewing]

Change it to Native American Day. Done.


When they start paying taxes.

[mehyaM24]

the more you read up on columbus, the less respect you have for him. schools in america praise this devil like a king. :oldlol:

[CeltsGarlic]

Since everyone is jumping on this " omg columbus is a mess" we need someone hipstery enough to go against the wave.

Where's my pro-columbus fellas at?

[Dresta]

I agree. In the long run I guess the Holocaust will also be looked upon as a positive for human history. And slavery. Maybe child molestation aswell
:rolleyes:

Try at least to be somewhat relevant. None of those things have anything to do with what i said; you're just moralising vacuously as usual. All of those things were in fact codified and made illegal (and their spread limited), by either the proliferation of Anglo-American ideals of individual liberty (slavery), the repudiating of vile ideologies like nazism (holocaust), as well as the extending of childhood and the excessive protection of children (molestation, early marriage, child labour etc.). These are all products of the survival of the Anglo-American tradition and the cultural evolution of Western nations. Without the existence of the United States i do not think this would have been possible, and modern history would be very different, and almost certainly more unpleasant.

If only the Spanish had settled and controlled the N. American continent, in the same way they did much of the South, then i think you wouldn't be enjoying a peaceful existence, engaging in frivolity on the internet and playing 'i hate America'

Don't worry, i've lived in several European countries, and this kind of rabid anti-Americanism is quite common. It's part envy, obviously, but also part self-delusion: they sit there and watch their American tv shows, eating their American food, congregating in Starbucks etc., all while engaging in the super-comfy and risk-free heroism of hating on America. It's downright childish in most cases (which is also why it's so common with the young, like socialism - how easy it is to have all the answers at 20!).

[gigantes]

:rolleyes:

Try at least to be somewhat relevant. None of those things have anything to do with what i said; you're just moralising vacuously as usual. All of those things were in fact codified and made illegal (and their spread limited), by either the proliferation of Anglo-American ideals of individual liberty (slavery), the repudiating of vile ideologies like nazism (holocaust), as well as the extending of childhood and the excessive protection of children (molestation, early marriage, child labour etc.). These are all products of the survival of the Anglo-American tradition and the cultural evolution of Western nations. Without the existence of the United States i do not think this would have been possible, and modern history would be very different, and almost certainly more unpleasant.

If only the Spanish had settled and controlled the N. American continent, in the same way they did much of the South, then i think you wouldn't be enjoying a peaceful existence, engaging in frivolity on the internet and playing 'i hate America'

Don't worry, i've lived in several European countries, and this kind of rabid anti-Americanism is quite common. It's part envy, obviously, but also part self-delusion: they sit there and watch their American tv shows, eating their American food, congregating in Starbucks etc., all while engaging in the super-comfy and risk-free heroism of hating on America. It's downright childish in most cases (which is also why it's so common with the young, like socialism - how easy it is to have all the answers at 20!).
you're smart and well-experienced... we largely disagree in certain areas, but... you have the floor, while bullshit walks. another day, interesting convo