View Full Version : Zach Lowe: Durant should finish as one of the Top 10 ever.
Suguru101
10-13-2014, 09:16 PM
On the article regarding how the Thunder will play without Durant, he has this quote when talking about the recovery of the injury:
"God forbid this becomes a chronic issue for a guy who should finish his career as one of the 10 greatest players ever."
This is the link to the article: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/kevin-durant-injury-jones-fracture-oklahoma-city-thunder-future-russell-westbrook/
What do you guys think? Should somebody with the skills/physical advantages of Durant end up as Top 10 if he's healthy through out his career?
aj1987
10-13-2014, 09:21 PM
Yeah. Hope the kid has better luck than Wade with injuries.
fpliii
10-13-2014, 09:21 PM
He has that potentially for sure I'd say, but the top 10 is getting pretty crowded...
I think he'll finish as the all-time leading scorer.
RidonKs
10-13-2014, 09:22 PM
durant won't win enough championships to crack the top 10, league is too stacked atm and will be for the foreseeable future... maybe if he goes to houston or somewhere similar i suppose but even then
Fudge
10-13-2014, 09:24 PM
Highest ceiling is Top 10, imo. I think he'll at least be Top 15... Around the Dr J's and Moses Malone's.
r0drig0lac
10-13-2014, 09:26 PM
will not be top 10, just because the top 10 is absurdly insane, but he will certainly be the greatest scorer to play the game
durant won't win enough championships to crack the top 10, league is too stacked atm and will be for the foreseeable future... maybe if he goes to houston or somewhere similar i suppose but even then
2-3?
RoundMoundOfReb
10-13-2014, 09:59 PM
Who is he better than out of (in no order):
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
LeBron
Shaq
Bird
Magic
No one. All of those guys are pretty clearly better.
ralph_i_el
10-13-2014, 10:02 PM
Who is he better than out of (in no order):
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
LeBron
Shaq
Bird
Magic
No one. All of those guys are pretty clearly better.
:rolleyes:
and halfway through all their careers people probably threw out top-10 lists and said the same shit (except for Wilt and Russell who played before anyone cared)
Cold soul
10-13-2014, 11:56 PM
I highly doubt it the top 10 is so crowded right now who would you take off? I'd say top 15-20 sounds more reasonable.
SHAQisGOAT
10-14-2014, 12:10 AM
I don't want to "count him out", dude's an amazing player and still pretty young, but that's EXTREMELY tough.
sportjames23
10-14-2014, 12:11 AM
Who is he better than out of (in no order):
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
LeBron
Shaq
Bird
Magic
No one. All of those guys are pretty clearly better.
/thread
IncarceratedBob
10-14-2014, 12:20 AM
He's pretty much Larry Bird 2.0..
With 5 rings he will easily be top 10
Droid101
10-14-2014, 12:21 AM
Blahblahblah, said the same thing about a ton of players that never came close.
Not that he doesn't deserve it, but come on. Premature.
SyRyanYang
10-14-2014, 12:37 AM
He's pretty much Larry Bird 2.0..
With 5 rings he will easily be top 10
yeah but getting 5 rings is the hard part lmao
Premature. It feels like he's been pretty underwhelming in the playoffs for the most part, especially the last 2 seasons. Not saying he can't get there, just saying he hasn't done enough to assume that he will.
stephanieg
10-14-2014, 01:05 AM
Pedestrian playmaking to all time greats, not a lockdown defender, doesn't dominate in the post, reliant on foul calls...nah.
Timmy D for MVP
10-14-2014, 01:09 AM
Should isn't the right word. That means that it would take something going wrong for him to miss it.
Could is the proper word. He clearly has the potential, talent, and early career resume to pull it off. But if you look at the top ten they have championships. He'll need a couple.
But if he gets another MVP or two, some more scoring titles, why not? He'll likely be in the conversation, though I imagine he'll be outside looking in. Think about it like this: Kobe is on the bubble now imo. Lebron will surpass him (and everyone else in the post Jordan era), bumping Kobe to 11. Is Durant better than Kobe? Is he better Than Hakeem? These are the people he'd be competing against for that spot.
I feel like Lowe is projecting forward here. Which is something that we do, and we're allowed to do, but we can't be surprised if it ends up wither way, and he's not wrong to project forward in the first place.
SamuraiSWISH
10-14-2014, 01:13 AM
Who is he better than out of (in no order):
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
LeBron
Shaq
Bird
Magic
No one. All of those guys are pretty clearly better.
You forgot Kobe. He's not better than him either. And based off his playoff struggles ... has he really cemented himself as being better than the following guys either:
Barkley
KG
Wade
K. Malone
Moses Malone
Ewing
D-Rob
Premature. It feels like he's been pretty underwhelming in the playoffs for the most part, especially the last 2 seasons. Not saying he can't get there, just saying he hasn't done enough to assume that he will.
Co-sign.
You forgot Kobe. He's not better than him either. And based off his playoff struggles ... has he really cemented himself as being better than the following guys either:
Barkley
KG
Wade
K. Malone
Moses Malone
Ewing
D-Rob
Co-sign.
Way too much premature crowning going on it seems. At least with Lebron before the titles it was due to him being possibly the most freakish athlete ever. Durant isn't THAT special and really hasn't set himself apart from second tier of greats like those you mentioned.
SamuraiSWISH
10-14-2014, 01:27 AM
Way too much premature crowning going on it seems. At least with Lebron before the titles it was due to him being possibly the most freakish athlete ever. Durant isn't THAT special and really hasn't set himself apart from second tier of greats like those you mentioned.
IMO based off his post seaosn play, I don't think he's more impressive than even McGrady thus far.
This myth about the second round garbage. Tracy didn't get to the second round because he either played with garbage, or underperforming softies in a difficult conference. KD has had STELLAR support his entire career: Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, Reggie Jackson. No Darrell Armstrong, and Bo Outlaws in the bunch.
Durant has been marginally better than Carmelo Anthony. Hell, has he even proven to be better than someone like Dominique Wilkins? Who balled out consistently in the playoffs. Even against one of the all-time great teams, pushing Larry Bird to his limits.
Too much premature media hype. People loose all kinds of perspective. All kinds of marketing going on.
chazzy
10-14-2014, 02:08 AM
Durant has been marginally better than Carmelo Anthony.
That's going too far. Durant's '13 regular season was incredible and matched by few in this era. He had a great playoffs in '11 and '12. Last year he didn't perform well but was still able to produce good numbers. If we're going to dock him for his last two playoffs that much, then Melo deserves the same scrutiny.
Milbuck
10-14-2014, 02:09 AM
Durant has been marginally better than Carmelo Anthony.
Seriously?
RoundMoundOfReb
10-14-2014, 02:10 AM
:rolleyes:
and halfway through all their careers people probably threw out top-10 lists and said the same shit (except for Wilt and Russell who played before anyone cared)
Not true at all. All of those guys 7 years into their careers had a top 10 trajectory (pretty clearly) except maybe Hakeem but even he was a better player than current durant by that time.
Cold soul
10-14-2014, 02:11 AM
Should isn't the right word. That means that it would take something going wrong for him to miss it.
Could is the proper word. He clearly has the potential, talent, and early career resume to pull it off. But if you look at the top ten they have championships. He'll need a couple.
But if he gets another MVP or two, some more scoring titles, why not? He'll likely be in the conversation, though I imagine he'll be outside looking in. Think about it like this: Kobe is on the bubble now imo. Lebron will surpass him (and everyone else in the post Jordan era), bumping Kobe to 11. Is Durant better than Kobe? Is he better Than Hakeem? These are the people he'd be competing against for that spot.
I feel like Lowe is projecting forward here. Which is something that we do, and we're allowed to do, but we can't be surprised if it ends up wither way, and he's not wrong to project forward in the first place.
What makes you think that? :biggums:
RoundMoundOfReb
10-14-2014, 02:12 AM
You forgot Kobe. He's not better than him either. And based off his playoff struggles ... has he really cemented himself as being better than the following guys either:
Barkley
KG
Wade
K. Malone
Moses Malone
Ewing
D-Rob
No doubt. I think prime for prime I'd give Kobe a slight edge over Durant and Kobe has some pretty insane longevity to go with it. I just listed my current top 10. I just don't see Durant being better than any of those guys. He'll probably be top 20 but even that's not a given. He hasn't seperated himself from Wade/Barkley/KG/West tier at all
SamuraiSWISH
10-14-2014, 02:21 AM
Seriously?
He's been better, especially considering the 2014 MVP. But Durant's performances in the playoffs that while good, still leave a lot to be desired for a player of his magnitude and hype. I mean top ten all-time? And he's getting bullied by Tony Allen, and Chris Paul?
oarabbus
10-14-2014, 02:39 AM
Who is he better than out of (in no order):
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
LeBron
Shaq
Bird
Magic
No one. All of those guys are pretty clearly better.
Are you serious? Durant is 26 years old. It's not like he's 33 right now.
Milbuck
10-14-2014, 02:50 AM
He's been better, especially considering the 2014 MVP. But Durant's performances in the playoffs that while good, still leave a lot to be desired for a player of his magnitude and hype. I mean top ten all-time? And he's getting bullied by Tony Allen, and Chris Paul?
The dude was 25 this past season.
KD at 25:
Regular season: 32/7/6/1/1 on 64% TS, 29.8 PER, .295 WS/48
Playoffs: 30/9/4/1/1 on 57% TS, 22.6 PER, .145 WS/48
Bird at 25:
Regular season: 23/11/6/2/1 on 56% TS, 22.6 PER, .205 WS/48
Playoffs: 18/13/6/2/1 on 47% TS, 17.9 PER, .154 WS/48
Obviously not saying KD will surpass Bird...but we need to put things into perspective. It's incredibly tough for a 25-26 year old player to stack up favorably against top 10 players all time whose peaks have been seen and careers have been recorded start to finish.
Players have underwhelming playoff runs...I'm not going to make a definitive statement on Durant's career and legacy this soon. The guy just turned 26 and has a game built for elite longevity. At 25 years old (this past season) he showed that his highest level so far is one of the highest levels ever. Just because he underperformed in the playoffs doesn't mean he'll do so every single year from now on. What if he brings the level he was at in January to the playoffs this season or the next, the year after that, or all 3?
RoundMoundOfReb
10-14-2014, 02:56 AM
Are you serious? Durant is 26 years old. It's not like he's 33 right now.
He's in his prime and he aint better than any of those guys in theirs.
imnew09
10-14-2014, 03:22 AM
Once he starts winning rings, then we can start talking....
KDthunderup
10-14-2014, 03:28 AM
Once he wins a ring or two he'll be up there for discussion.
Sarcastic
10-14-2014, 04:21 AM
:rolleyes:
and halfway through all their careers people probably threw out top-10 lists and said the same shit (except for Wilt and Russell who played before anyone cared)
Everyone on that list was mentioned as GOAT material within the first 2 years of entering the league, except for maybe Duncan and Hakeem.
Everyone on that list was mentioned as GOAT material within the first 2 years of entering the league, except for maybe Duncan and Hakeem.
:coleman:
Sarcastic
10-14-2014, 04:34 AM
Duncan wasn't being mentioned as potential top 10 in 1999. Shaq was the best young big man, and Karl Malone was being talked about as the best PF after winning his second MVP. There were a lot of questions about Duncan and how he would do once David Robinson was gone.
dannywpt
10-14-2014, 04:51 AM
Once he goes 2/5 we can start talking top 10
russwest0
10-14-2014, 04:55 AM
Once he goes 2/5 we can start talking top 10
damn sounds like he needs to get on his eastern conference superteam shit....
again.
Dude's inferior to T-Mac and Melo and when he gets injured, suddenly he's top-10 all-time talent. Durant is lucky to even make it to the HoF.
T_L_P
10-14-2014, 05:20 AM
Duncan wasn't being mentioned as potential top 10 in 1999. Shaq was the best young big man, and Karl Malone was being talked about as the best PF after winning his second MVP. There were a lot of questions about Duncan and how he would do once David Robinson was gone.
Lots of people (Bill Walton, Jeff Van Gundy, maybe even Shaq himself) called Duncan the best player in the league after 99. After he won the Finals MVP, the NBC announcer said it was unfair to compare anyone to Jordan, but Duncan was his successor (a lot of people questioned whose league it would be when MJ was gone).
What did Shaq do in his first 2 years to give himself GOAT talks that Duncan didn't do? What did LeBron do?
Milbuck
10-14-2014, 05:45 AM
The potential of your legacy is determined by the level of play you reach, not how far into your career you reach said level.
And Durant by 25 has reached an all-time great level. He didn't carry it into the playoffs...but at least we know what he's capable of at his highest level (so far). And the guy is still getting better.
But even if he doesn't improve whatsoever and peaks at the level he was at this past winter...if he wins 3-4 championships at that level, he's got a damn good case for top 10 all time.
And considering that literally everyone who matters on his team is only getting better (including himself), and they've already been to the finals and WCF 3x when healthy...I don't put 3 perhaps 4 championships in the next decade out of the realm of possibility.
Durant wont have the nostalgia factor.
Nowitness
10-14-2014, 07:19 AM
Dude's inferior to T-Mac and Melo and when he gets injured, suddenly he's top-10 all-time talent. Durant is lucky to even make it to the HoF.
Troll obvious troll.
He has accomplished more already that either of them ever could (MVP/Finalist).
Marchesk
10-14-2014, 08:10 AM
I don't know, Oscar was pretty damn good the first part of his career and he's not in the top 10.
Guys that have been pushed out of the top 10 that Durant would have to pass:
Dr J, M. Malone, Baylor, West, Oscar.
tmacattack33
10-14-2014, 10:25 AM
Yeah, sure. Why not.
The NBA has been strong since around 1970 when it became fully integrated.
2014 - 1970 = 44 years.
We've seen 44 years of competitive bball...or 4 generations. So, there shoud be about 2 or 3 top 10 players in each generation. Durant is the second best player in this generation.
ArbitraryWater
10-14-2014, 12:16 PM
I think that 10th spot is open.... In terms of tiers, I think there's a slight gap after 9, followed by Hakeem, then another slight gap and we get to West/Moses/Kobe/Oscar etc
... So, if KD really piles up on Rings WHILE being the overwhelming factor and dominating in the postseason, he has a small chance at passing Hakeem... Small.
Surely he should be headed top 20.
ralph_i_el
10-14-2014, 12:47 PM
Dude's inferior to T-Mac and Melo and when he gets injured, suddenly he's top-10 all-time talent. Durant is lucky to even make it to the HoF.
obvious troll is obvious
ralph_i_el
10-14-2014, 12:57 PM
Not true at all. All of those guys 7 years into their careers had a top 10 trajectory (pretty clearly) except maybe Hakeem but even he was a better player than current durant by that time.
Way too much premature crowning going on it seems. At least with Lebron before the titles it was due to him being possibly the most freakish athlete ever. Durant isn't THAT special and really hasn't set himself apart from second tier of greats like those you mentioned.
Am I taking crazy pills? Nobody has had his combination of length and shooting.
Led the NBA in scoring by his third season and has improved noticeably every season.
He's been an integral part of numerous top-5 defenses.
Leads a top offense that barely runs plays and plays numerous players who can't shoot or even hold on to the ball
We're out here comparing his resume to a bunch of guys who have already played a full career.
People are going to hate of him and say he can't reach that level. They'll hate on the next guy too.
j3lademaster
10-14-2014, 12:57 PM
:rolleyes:
and halfway through all their careers people probably threw out top-10 lists and said the same shit (except for Wilt and Russell who played before anyone cared)This. When MJ was Durant's age he was thought of as a selfish chucker who'd never win. Granted MJ didn't have a cast like Durant's at the time either.
Timmy D for MVP
10-14-2014, 03:42 PM
What makes you think that? :biggums:
The fact that:
MJ
Magic
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
are all better than Kobe. And Lebron certainly looks like he's going to vault a lot of them.
Timmy D for MVP
10-14-2014, 03:43 PM
Durant wont have the nostalgia factor.
:biggums:
He won't have the nostalgia factor? You don't think you're gonna be talking about KD in the future?
RoundMoundOfReb
10-14-2014, 03:49 PM
Am I taking crazy pills? Nobody has had his combination of length and shooting.
Led the NBA in scoring by his third season and has improved noticeably every season.
He's been an integral part of numerous top-5 defenses.
Leads a top offense that barely runs plays and plays numerous players who can't shoot or even hold on to the ball
We're out here comparing his resume to a bunch of guys who have already played a full career.
People are going to hate of him and say he can't reach that level. They'll hate on the next guy too.
Nobody is saying that he isn't insanely good at basketball. He likely goes down top 20. How on earth is that an insult? He just isn't better than anybody on that list.
Cold soul
10-14-2014, 03:50 PM
The fact that:
MJ
Magic
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
are all better than Kobe. And Lebron certainly looks like he's going to vault a lot of them.
I feel Kobe better than those players in bold at least career wise. We can agree to disagree here there nothing wrong with you having those 9 above him though. Lebron is borderline top 10.
Magic 32
10-14-2014, 04:30 PM
I think that 10th spot is open.... In terms of tiers, I think there's a slight gap after 9, followed by Hakeem, then another slight gap and we get to West/Moses/Lebron/Oscar etc
fixed.
Magic 32
10-14-2014, 04:34 PM
If everything goes right for Durant, I can see him in the top 12.
1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11 Durant
12. Lebron
13. Oscar
Mr Feeny
10-14-2014, 04:35 PM
I feel Kobe better than those players in bold at least career wise. We can agree to disagree here there nothing wrong with you having those 9 above him though. Lebron is borderline top 10.
Strongly disagree here. Each and every one of these is comfortably ahead of Kobe imo. Lebron isn't just going to complete the top 10 either - he's likely to end up top 5 all time barring a drastic decrease in quality of play.
Magic 32
10-14-2014, 04:48 PM
Strongly disagree here. Each and every one of these is comfortably ahead of Kobe imo. Lebron isn't just going to complete the top 10 either - he's likely to end up top 5 all time barring a drastic decrease in quality of play.
If Kobe joined the Spurs in 2004-05, would he be borderline top 5 by going 2-4 in the finals, just because he won 2 MVP's by default and averaged 27, 8, 8 in the regular season?
Lebron stacked the deck at the optimum time in his career (and in the history of the eastern conference) and still ended up looking utterly mortal.
It's just amazing how his calculated and spineless plan worked out to perfection for him.
Crimsonrain777
10-14-2014, 04:49 PM
He has that potentially for sure I'd say, but the top 10 is getting pretty crowded...
i think players are gonna get kicked out of the top 11-20 then the new top 10=top 20. Or something like that:confusedshrug:
Real14
10-14-2014, 05:28 PM
I don't know about that.
ralph_i_el
10-14-2014, 06:52 PM
Honestly, the idea of a top-10 list is just designed to create controversy.
We should demark the beginning and ending of eras and only judge players by their era.
And I hesitate to judge any players I didn't see live (wilt/Russell/KAJ/magic/bird)
He better start winning then
DatAsh
10-14-2014, 09:58 PM
Who is he better than out of (in no order):
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
LeBron
Shaq
Bird
Magic
No one. All of those guys are pretty clearly better.
He's also 25 years old. He just put 32/7/6 on 64% and led a team to a 59-23 record with his second option missing 36 games. He very well could go down as the greatest scorer ever, and he's already a better rebounder than Jordan or Kobe.
Like fpliii said, the top 10 is crowded, but it's not impossible.
RoundMoundOfReb
10-14-2014, 10:07 PM
He's also 25 years old. He just put 32/7/6 on 64% and led a team to a 59-23 record with his second option missing 36 games. He very well could go down as the greatest scorer ever, and he's already a better rebounder than Jordan or Kobe.
Like fpliii said, the top 10 is crowded, but it's not impossible.
Assuming he's in his prime right now: Who is he better than of those I listed prime for prime?
KG215
10-14-2014, 10:14 PM
He's also 25 years old. He just put 32/7/6 on 64% and led a team to a 59-23 record with his second option missing 36 games. He very well could go down as the greatest scorer ever, and he's already a better rebounder than Jordan or Kobe.
Like fpliii said, the top 10 is crowded, but it's not impossible.
See, I'm not sure people quite grasp how ridiculously good Durant was this past season. I get that some of that is because of his underwhelming postseason, but some of that can be attributed to fatigue; not all of it, and he deserves his share of criticism, but it still shouldn't completely overshadow his insane regular season. He led a team with severe offensive limitations (sans-Westbrook) to 59 wins in an absurdly loaded Western Conference by playing a ton of minutes and doing basically everything on offense.
Mr Feeny
10-15-2014, 03:41 AM
If Kobe joined the Spurs in 2004-05, would he be borderline top 5 by going 2-4 in the finals, just because he won 2 MVP's by default and averaged 27, 8, 8 in the regular season?
Lebron stacked the deck at the optimum time in his career (and in the history of the eastern conference) and still ended up looking utterly mortal.
It's just amazing how his calculated and spineless plan worked out to perfection for him.
Aha....
Go on....
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