When a 6-4 defends a 7 footer (Dellavedova vs. Dirk)

[moaz]

This happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nen2r-oGlrA

but applause :applause: to Dellavedova:
1- he came out to defend to begin with
2- Dirk missed :oldlol:

[Kvnzhangyay]

Gotta respect the effort :applause: :applause:

[Rake2204]

One time in high school, protecting a one point lead in the fourth quarter, I thought I'd be a cool guy and do that to a sub-5'10'' defender playing low in a mismatch with me. He just backed up and knocked it away. It looks rightfully awful on tape, as if I just handed him the ball.

[rhowen4]

One time in high school, protecting a one point lead in the fourth quarter, I thought I'd be a cool guy and do that to a sub-5'10'' defender playing low in a mismatch with me. He just backed up and knocked it away. It looks rightfully awful on tape, as if I just handed him the ball.
o so u played high school ball tell me mroe

Lol jk man. How tall are you?

[Rake2204]

o so u played high school ball tell me mroe

Lol jk man. How tall are you?6'3''. I saw my teammate do that Dirk move either earlier in the game or the game prior and I remember it looking really cool. The defender may have even turned to look when he did it so obviously I thought the closing minutes of a one possession game would be a good time to try it out myself for the first time.

Just found the clip. Thankfully, the kid attempted the weakest left handed layup in basketball history on the other end but you can see me almost falling over myself trying to outrun my humiliation the other way.

My rollercoaster of emotions:

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/BadPlayRecovery-54452648c107a.gif

[Trollsmasher]

6'3''. I saw my teammate do that Dirk move either earlier in the game or the game prior and I remember it looking really cool. The defender may have even turned to look when he did it so obviously I thought the closing minutes of a one possession game would be a good time to try it out myself for the first time.

Just found the clip. Thankfully, the kid attempted the weakest left handed layup in basketball history on the other end but you can see me almost falling over myself trying to outrun my humiliation the other way.

My rollercoaster of emotions:

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/BadPlayRecovery-54452648c107a.gif
:roll:

nice hustle tho

[KungFuJoe]

Dirk did that move way too slow. You're supposed to act like you're whipping a pass over their head. I used to **** with people with that move all the time...in pick up games, of course.

Another move is, when you're posting someone, you lean forward, tuck the ball between your legs, then fake a pass on either side. Defender looks to see where the ball went, and you spin to the hoop.

[rhowen4]

My rollercoaster of emotions:
Cheers for the gif man hahah, that's good service

[Levity]

Another move is, when you're posting someone, you lean forward, tuck the ball between your legs, then fake a pass on either side. Defender looks to see where the ball went, and you spin to the hoop.

you must be an old asian man

[PistonsFan#21]

Dirk did that move way too slow. You're supposed to act like you're whipping a pass over their head. I used to **** with people with that move all the time...in pick up games, of course.

Another move is, when you're posting someone, you lean forward, tuck the ball between your legs, then fake a pass on either side. Defender looks to see where the ball went, and you spin to the hoop.

Pretty sure that holding the ball between your legs is an illegal move though unless you're talking about And1 mixtape streetball moves.

[PistonsFan#21]

Here's a legal move for smaller guys to do against bigger guys though:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/44f18cec35d8c750c8b4decfed2f6036/tumblr_mkt20zxf4Z1qja7o7o1_400.gif

Starbury :bowdown:

[Rake2204]

Pretty sure that holding the ball between your legs is an illegal move though unless you're talking about And1 mixtape streetball moves.On the contrary, as long as his pivot foot remained set, I do not believe that maneuver would be illegal. It is not being propelled or kicked, one's position is not being advanced, and a pivot is established.


Here's a legal move for smaller guys to do against bigger guys though:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/44f18cec35d8c750c8b4decfed2f6036/tumblr_mkt20zxf4Z1qja7o7o1_400.gif

Starbury :bowdown:On the other side, I actually do not believe that is legal. It'll work in all-star games (of which that clip is derived), but players typically cannot throw the ball in the air to themselves.

[KungFuJoe]

Pretty sure that holding the ball between your legs is an illegal move though unless you're talking about And1 mixtape streetball moves.

Not illegal at all. Your feet aren't moving and the ball never touches the ground because it's between your knees. Because you're posting up with your back to the defender, if you do it quick enough, he can't tell what you're doing.

[oarabbus]

Lol that GIF is exactly how I feel whenever I guard a 6'3" guy.

Any other short dudes, WTF do you do when your defender is that much taller than you? Just foul em?


Here's a legal move for smaller guys to do against bigger guys though:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/44f18cec35d8c750c8b4decfed2f6036/tumblr_mkt20zxf4Z1qja7o7o1_400.gif

Starbury :bowdown:

I don't think that's legal. Catching your own shot if it doesn't hit backboard/rim is a travel, no?

[PistonsFan#21]

On the contrary, as long as his pivot foot remained set, I do not believe that maneuver would be illegal. It is not being propelled or kicked, one's position is not being advanced, and a pivot is established.

On the other side, I actually do not believe that is legal. It'll work in all-star games (of which that clip is derived), but players typically cannot throw the ball in the air to themselves.

I was just under the impression that holding the ball between your legs would be an illegal move. I know its not a kickball or anything but i still thought it would be some sort of violation.

And i dont see how that starbury move is illegal. Sure he threw the ball to himself but his pivot foot never came back to the floor before he released the shot. I could stop my dribble if i wanted to and then just juggle with the ball while maintaining my pivot foot before going up for a jumpshot

[PistonsFan#21]

I don't think that's legal. Catching your own shot if it doesn't hit backboard/rim is a travel, no?


It wasnt a shot though he just threw the ball in the air. You are allowed to throw the ball in the air and get it back if you maintain a pivot foot and dont move or dribble after. When he jumped up he released the ball before his pivot foot came back to the ground so i dont think theres anything illegal with that move.

Could be wrong though

[AboutBuckets]

Any other short dudes, WTF do you do when your defender is that much taller than you? Just foul em?



5'10 here, consistently find myself guarding guys 6'2 and above in Intramural Leagues at college. If they are out on the perimeter, I make sure to use any quickness advantage I have to stay in front of them at all times & try to make them pick up their dribble at a spot where a shot they take would be of low quality --> try and get them to get rid of the ball. After that, play hard prevent defense when they move through vulnerable areas of the court. If they try to post up, do my work early and don't let them establish good position. If they still get me down low, I'll front them to make an entry pass more difficult and your bigs (who should be on the same page) will help you out on the high lob entry.

[G-train]

Delly is listed 6'4? 6'2 at a maximum.

[Kblaze8855]

Until you come down with it I wouldnt assume its a travel. Ive seen it done in game.

Why would it be any different from a self lob alley? Not off the bakcboard...Mark Jackson style.

Are people aware of Mark doing that in his youth? Self lob then a weak dunk?

I never saw it called a travel.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Until you come down with it I wouldnt assume its a travel. Ive seen it done in game.

Why would it be any different from a self lob alley? Not off the bakcboard...Mark Jackson style.

Are people aware of Mark doing that in his youth? Self lob then a weak dunk?

I never saw it called a travel.


Yea, not a travel if you catch the ball while in the air and release it before you touch the ground...

Self alley oop (not off the backboard) would be something of "that nature"... Yes, just like what Mark did sometimes.
Steve Francis doing something like that too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJIoDdxByoY

Zeke did this here and there, from time to time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1euE0pj_JE&t=0m35s
Seen Pippen do something similar too

[PistonsFan#21]

Until you come down with it I wouldnt assume its a travel. Ive seen it done in game.

Why would it be any different from a self lob alley? Not off the bakcboard...Mark Jackson style.

Are people aware of Mark doing that in his youth? Self lob then a weak dunk?

I never saw it called a travel.



Yea, not a travel if you catch the ball while in the air and release it before you touch the ground...

Self alley oop (not off the backboard) would be something of "that nature"... Yes, just like what Mark did sometimes.
Steve Francis doing something like that too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJIoDdxByoY

Zeke did this here and there, from time to time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1euE0pj_JE&t=0m35s
Seen Pippen do something similar too

Yea thats what i thought too. I didnt think there's anything wrong with that move.

Kinda similar to this too:

http://www.viralhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Allen-Iverson-Self-Pass-2001-All-Star-Game.gif

[SHAQisGOAT]

Yea thats what i thought too. I didnt think there's anything wrong with that move.

Kinda similar to this too:

http://www.viralhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Allen-Iverson-Self-Pass-2001-All-Star-Game.gif

Yup, like that too... That's the Isiah move (at least in my mind).

[Rake2204]

Yea thats what i thought too. I didnt think there's anything wrong with that move.

Kinda similar to this too:

http://www.viralhoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Allen-Iverson-Self-Pass-2001-All-Star-Game.gifI wish to continue researching this aspect of the game.

I recall the likes of Mark Jackson and Steve Francis completing self lobs but theoretically, those plays would be live dribbles turned directly into shots (unless a player picked up that dribble with two hands or carried it somehow before the last bounce - as Francis did in his case). Had Francis not let the ball sit in his hand while he wandered downcourt, instead completing a standard live dribble initiation, it would have been a legally sound play. Instead, it was an awful travel overlooked by officials because they'd already conceded the sure bucket.

I've always been uncertain about the self-pass thing that AI's doing above. I've seen Kenny Smith do that as well. I actually used to do it from time to time in pickup games but I never trusted its legality in a real game. I haven't been able to tell if it's a legal play or the NBA just saying, "Meh, couldn't really tell what happened there, we'll let that go" on the rare times it occurs.

Third, I've always viewed passes off the backboard being different than flat out "self-passes". Typically, I've seen many rules state that once a pass has been initiated, the passer cannot be the next thing to touch the ball. This would mean that throwing the ball off the backboard, or off the back of an opponent, would be legal, but gathering the ball and throwing it in the air to oneself, would not.

Like I said, I'm about to dig in and see what I can come across in terms of a concrete explanation. I thought that Marbury move was a no-brainer but now you guys have me thinking a little. First link I've come across so far isn't very reputable but it says:


According to the Official NBA Rulebook, you will charged with traveling and lose possession if you are the first person that touches a ball after you have made a pass. The NCAA and International Basketball Federation both have similar rules. All three groups agree that the ball must legally contact another in-bounds player for a throw-in to be completed. Although "legal contact" refers primarily to whether the receiving player is fully in bounds, this term can also apply to situations of deliberately bouncing the ball off another player.

NBA, NCAA and FIBA rules all state that you can touch a ball after making a pass if it first comes into contact with another player. As such, it is technically legal to complete a self-pass that involves deliberately bouncing the ball off an opposing player's body. This is also true for throw-ins, as long as you have both of your feet in bounds before recovering the ball. However, if the referee judges that you have deliberately bounced the ball off an opponent in a way that might cause injury, you can be charged with a technical or personal foul.

In addition to contact with other players, contact with the rim or backboard can be used as a means of recovering your own pass. This form of self-passing is often used at the end of a fast break, typically as part of an acrobatic layup or slam-dunk attempt. However, as FIBA rules clearly state, deliberately bouncing the ball off the rim or backboard can be considered a form of dribbling. As such, you may be charged with traveling if the referee does not view your use of the backboard or rim as an actual shot attempt.http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/basketball-rules-selfpass-4646.html

[G-train]

Those moves were 100% travel, but are now allowed in the NBA for entertainment purposes. Including throwing pass off the backboard. Not even sure if they are in the rules yet, but are just unspoken 'rules'.

I first started noticing it in the early Jordan era. The NBA started allowing 2.5, 3, 4 steps, carrying, etc.... instead of the strict fundamental play.

Obviously to increase entertainment/cash.

[Rake2204]

Those moves were 100% travel, but are now allowed in the NBA for entertainment purposes. Including throwing pass off the backboard. Not even sure if they are in the rules yet, but are just unspoken 'rules'.

I first started noticing it in the early Jordan era. The NBA started allowing 2.5, 3, 4 steps, carrying, etc.... instead of the strict fundamental play.

Obviously to increase entertainment/cash.I'm with you. I felt the same way - that traveling in the NBA was kind of like being in the Matrix. That is, there's rules, but sometimes they can be bent.

That said, I actually do believe the off-the-backboard self-pass is legal, citing the "player can't be first thing to touch passed ball" rule.

EDIT: Here we are:
A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/26902/legalized-passing-to-yourself

I'd guess that rule was added or addressed once those plays began sprouting up in the early 2000's (via Tracy McGrady, most notably). I would not be surprised if a self-lob off the backboard is still illegal at other levels (I think I read it's still not legal in FIBA).

[oarabbus]

5'10 here, consistently find myself guarding guys 6'2 and above in Intramural Leagues at college. If they are out on the perimeter, I make sure to use any quickness advantage I have to stay in front of them at all times & try to make them pick up their dribble at a spot where a shot they take would be of low quality --> try and get them to get rid of the ball. After that, play hard prevent defense when they move through vulnerable areas of the court. If they try to post up, do my work early and don't let them establish good position. If they still get me down low, I'll front them to make an entry pass more difficult and your bigs (who should be on the same page) will help you out on the high lob entry.


Thanks man. How about a guy who's a good enough shooter to not have to drive on you? I'm a bit shorter than you, but think of if you had to guard a guy exactly 6' with a nice reliable jumpshot. I try to just deny but once they get the ball, even if I "contest" they can still shoot over. It's frustrating when you're RIGHT THERE and they still make the shot

[PistonsFan#21]

I wish to continue researching this aspect of the game.

I recall the likes of Mark Jackson and Steve Francis completing self lobs but theoretically, those plays would be live dribbles turned directly into shots (unless a player picked up that dribble with two hands or carried it somehow before the last bounce - as Francis did in his case). Had Francis not let the ball sit in his hand while he wandered downcourt, instead completing a standard live dribble initiation, it would have been a legally sound play. Instead, it was an awful travel overlooked by officials because they'd already conceded the sure bucket.

I've always been uncertain about the self-pass thing that AI's doing above. I've seen Kenny Smith do that as well. I actually used to do it from time to time in pickup games but I never trusted its legality in a real game. I haven't been able to tell if it's a legal play or the NBA just saying, "Meh, couldn't really tell what happened there, we'll let that go" on the rare times it occurs.

Third, I've always viewed passes off the backboard being different than flat out "self-passes". Typically, I've seen many rules state that once a pass has been initiated, the passer cannot be the next thing to touch the ball. This would mean that throwing the ball off the backboard, or off the back of an opponent, would be legal, but gathering the ball and throwing it in the air to oneself, would not.

Like I said, I'm about to dig in and see what I can come across in terms of a concrete explanation. I thought that Marbury move was a no-brainer but now you guys have me thinking a little. First link I've come across so far isn't very reputable but it says:

http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/basketball-rules-selfpass-4646.html

I understand what you're saying but by self pass i think they mean stopping your dribble, throwing the ball forward and going after it to pick it up. If the dribble isnt stopped it would just be the same as pushing the ball forward like you sometimes see Lebron, Westbrook, Rose, etc do on a fastbreak.

In the Iverson gif he was taking his 2 steps motion for the layup so while he takes his 2 steps he can do whatever he wants with the ball (wether its juggling, behind the back, etc). It would only be called a travel if he used the self lob as a way to keep his dribble alive (or even if he simply came down with the ball after taking his 2 steps)

In the marbury gif its the same principle except that his dribble is already stopped so he cant move anywhere. Do you agree that you can do pretty much anything you want with the ball as long as your pivot foot doesnt move? When he jumps up in the air he has to release the ball before coming down with it. If he threw the ball forward and ran after it then yeah it would be a self pass but in this case he lifted his pivot foot so he had to release the ball before coming down with it just like you would do with a regular jumpshot.

If self pass simply implied a player being the 1st one touching a basketball twice then a play like this would be called a travel:

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/980026/rondohike.gif

but its actually a pefectly legal move.

And Rondo even has a 4 minute video of this type of plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-9w_a464No&spfreload=10%20Message%3A%20Unexpected%20end%20of% 20input%20(url%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com% 2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dj-9w_a464No)

[oarabbus]

How bout when a guy takes 2 steps but then pivots instead of releasing the ball? Never was sure if that was legal. Kind of hard to explain I'll try to find a video of it but not having any luck

[Rake2204]

Do you agree that you can do pretty much anything you want with the ball as long as your pivot foot doesnt move?With respect, I most certainly do not agree. If a player has possession of the ball and has not used his dribble, his options are essentially:

1) Holding position by standing in secure possession of the ball in some form (triple threat)
2) Passing
3) Initiating a live dribble
4) Attempting a shot

The Rajon Rondo clips, as goofy as those plays are - they're dribble initiations. If, in that gif, he'd actually flung the ball a little higher in the air, to where he had time to turn and catch without the ball hitting the floor, that would have been a travel, via self pass. He knows that so, as mentioned, he performs that play in such a manner (by bouncing the ball) that it is interpreted as the start of live dribble.

Meanwhile, Marbury's play, in my opinion, would be deemed a self-pass which, as established above, cannot be touched first by the passer. Could we agree his intent was to pass the ball to himself? Whether his pivot foot is established or not, to me, is irrelevant, for a pass to oneself cannot legally occur whether a pivot foot is established or not. Essentially, a self pass is a self pass.

I feel very, very confident that if a player were standing at half court, unguarded, perhaps running the clock out, and he decided to throw the ball up in the air to himself then catch it - that he'd be whistled for a travel. There is a reason why Stephon Marbury's All-Star excursion against Vlade Divac is nearly one-of-a-kind.

[inclinerator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBoQCYY32E0

violation

scottie pippen had one too

[Rake2204]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBoQCYY32E0

violation

scottie pippen had one tooYeah, once again, it may sound like a cop-out, but I feel as though the NBA has a history of bending travel violations, becoming especially lax when a player is wide open on a 1-on-0 fast break. I do not necessarily have an issue with that, because it looks cool (Eddie Robinson did it too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-eXjvcRQM) but I do not believe that means it's by-the-books legal.

Those self-lobs in particular (with no use of backboard) would seem to open a pandora's box if truly deemed legal, as players could then theoretically dribble toward the hoop, come across a defender, throw a pass to themselves over the player's head, then jump and score on the other side. I do not feel that'd ever be seen as a legal play. Again, these guys seem to get the Matrix rule-bend pass in the open floor (see Francis, Steve).

In case it was overlooked before, here are the lines coming directly out of the NBA rule book:
A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.
A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
Top of Page 38: http://www.nba.com/.element/mp3/2.0/sect/podcastmp3/NBA/podcast/2013-14-Rule-Book.pdf

[PistonsFan#21]

Yeah, once again, it may sound like a cop-out, but I feel as though the NBA has a history of bending travel violations, becoming especially lax when a player is wide open on a 1-on-0 fast break. I do not necessarily have an issue with that, because it looks cool (Eddie Robinson did it too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-eXjvcRQM) but I do not believe that means it's by-the-books legal.

Those self-lobs in particular (with no use of backboard) would seem to open a pandora's box if truly deemed legal, as players could then theoretically dribble toward the hoop, come across a defender, throw a pass to themselves over the player's head, then jump and score on the other side. I do not feel that'd ever be seen as a legal play. Again, these guys seem to get the Matrix rule-bend pass in the open floor (see Francis, Steve).

In case it was overlooked before, here are the lines coming directly out of the NBA rule book: Top of Page 38: http://www.nba.com/.element/mp3/2.0/sect/podcastmp3/NBA/podcast/2013-14-Rule-Book.pdf

So according to this rule a player that dribbles and then pushes the ball way in front of him on a fastbreak before recovering it should be called for a traveling or self pass violation? Thank you for clarifying with the NBA link im just not sure if throwing the ball in the air while remaining motionless can be qualified as a pass.

And the example you mentionned would be almost impossible to complete unless the player on offense had God like hangtime to throw the ball over the defender's head, jump from in front of him, catch it on the other side and release the shot before touching the ground again. The defender would have to be pretty slow to let this happen. Its basically the same as thrusting forward on a shot except that the ball is not in your hands during the whole process. Like i said i might be wrong though.

In your opinion would the drill he does at 0:30 seconds in this video be considered a travel or self pass if he remained stationary ? Lets say if he kept his hands a bit wider apart and the ball moved a longer range of motion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0xQYIU-NME&spfreload=10%20Message%3A%20Unexpected%20end%20of% 20input%20(url%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com% 2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz0xQYIU-NME)

[Pointguard]

In AAU what Steph did was called discontinued. Once you pick up your dribble, you get your two steps on the layup and nothing else. The ball can be considered a fumble or loss of control. Moses Malone at first used to fumble the ball off the backboard. Then didn't care any more.

Once the dribble is picked up with the intent to pass or shoot, and the ball leaves the hands, it can't be retrieved unless it hits backboard, rim or other players. I'm pretty sure this can be enforced when its begins to look sloppy. When Pete Maravich made it look good it was let go just like palming/carry is allowed.

[Rake2204]

So according to this rule a player that dribbles and then pushes the ball way in front of him on a fastbreak before recovering it should be called for a traveling or self pass violation? Thank you for clarifying with the NBA link im just not sure if throwing the ball in the air while remaining motionless can be qualified as a pass.No. A live dribble is a live dribble. As long as legal dribbling rules are being followed (ball is not being palmed, collected, or cuffed between dribbles), a dribble can go anywhere a player can take it.

However, if a player were dribbling and at one point their hand went beneath the ball (far enough beneath to otherwise be declared a palming or carrying violation), as a means of propelling the ball in front of himself on a fast break, that would be a travel. Also, if a player did any other form of collection (grabbing with two hands, clearly palming) during the dribbling process, that would also be a travel.

Dribbling is the primary means by which players can move along the floor while in possession of the basketball. That would be the time where we could say a player can do just about anything he wanted, as long as he was following the rules of dribbling (no cuffing, collecting, carrying, palming). He can perform a dance routine if he so desires, as long as he keeps his legal dribble live.


And the example you mentionned would be almost impossible to complete unless the player on offense had God like hangtime to throw the ball over the defender's head, jump from in front of him, catch it on the other side and release the shot before touching the ground again. The defender would have to be pretty slow to let this happen. Its basically the same as thrusting forward on a shot except that the ball is not in your hands during the whole process. Like i said i might be wrong though.Yep, I kind of thought things would get a little twisted on this front so I apologize for not being more clear. That portion of my response was particularly in regards to the David Lee and Eddie Robinson self-alley oop examples posted by inclinerator and myself. In those instances, they were running down the floor, threw the ball in the air while no pivot was ever established, then lept in the air and threw the ball down.

My example was using those plays as a base. If those guys could legally do that, other players could theoretically run at a defender, float it over their head, then jump in the air, catch and shoot on the other side. Regardless of whether we want to consider any of these plays realistic to pull off, I feel it does not matter because, again, they are examples of passes to oneself which, at fear of sounding repetitive, is stated pretty clearly in the NBA rule book as being flatly illegal unless the ball touches the backboard, rim, or another player first, with no exceptions for pivot feet, jumping, being stationary, or moving.


In your opinion would the drill he does at 0:30 seconds in this video be considered a travel or self pass if he remained stationary ? Lets say if he kept his hands a bit wider apart and the ball moved a longer range of motion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0xQYIU-NME&spfreload=10%20Message%3A%20Unexpected%20end%20of% 20input%20(url%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com% 2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz0xQYIU-NME)Yes. I believe that would be a travel. That's a drill I've had my players do over the years but it was a warm-up for building dexterity and comfort with the basketball, as it was acknowledged that it wasn't something that would be done in a real game.

When a player is in possession and the ball leaves their hands, it must be for a purpose - either to begin a dribble, shoot, or pass. I believe that controlled tapping sequence would be interpreted as a self-pass. Though, I do wish to say that if a player tapped the ball that slightly one time, I could clearly see it being missed by an official. But if they were doing it over and over and over again, and at a wider length (as you suggested), I most certainly believe it'd be a violation.

To be honest, I think the NBA video vault is a tough place to go sometimes in order to find out what is legal and what is not. I believe there's a lot of illegal plays that are sometimes considered harmless in the NBA and are henceforth allowed (again, primarily in the open court when a player, in a league based upon entertainment, is surely going to score one way or another).

Either way, I believe the two rules posted numerous times above should provide an ample amount of clarity on the matter. Self-passes of any kind are illegal unless the rim, backboard, or another player is hit first. The only real grey area I see comes from a live dribbling player who consciously initiates a high dribble, only to dunk the ball in one motion. I find that allowable as I believe the dribble is remaining live in that case and thus, it would be considered a continuation of the dribble as opposed to being a pass (unless, again, the ball was collected, palmed or carried prior to the last bounce).

Edit: I'm going to post the rules again just as a means of keeping them with the conversation and not getting lost in the shuffle above; just for the sake of our own reference.
A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.
A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
Top of Page 38: http://www.nba.com/.element/mp3/2.0/sect/podcastmp3/NBA/podcast/2013-14-Rule-Book.pdf

[AboutBuckets]

Thanks man. How about a guy who's a good enough shooter to not have to drive on you? I'm a bit shorter than you, but think of if you had to guard a guy exactly 6' with a nice reliable jumpshot. I try to just deny but once they get the ball, even if I "contest" they can still shoot over. It's frustrating when you're RIGHT THERE and they still make the shot

If you're a bit shorter than me I guess it might be like me guarding a 6'3 or 6'4 guy. In that case, I'll contest not the ball but their vision. When they've picked up their dribble I raise my hand to directly in front of their eyes, obstructing their view of the basket. If you can disrupt their typical shot motion by making them move their head to re-find the basket (usually altering their release) it's going to make it more difficult for them