Who is the greatest player alltime that has never been the best player in the league?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Who is it? Out of all the years theyve played theyve never been considered the best player in any year.

[#number6ix#]

Barkley
Malone
Robinson

[iamgine]

Kobe

[Sarcastic]

Tim Duncan.

1999 to ~2005 - Shaq
~2005 to 2008 - Kobe
2008 to current - Lebron

[T_L_P]

Tim Duncan.

1999 to ~2005 - Shaq
~2005 to 2008 - Kobe
2008 to current - Lebron

Kobe the best in 05. :roll: Missed half the year and clearly wasn't the best player when he was on the court, missed the Playoffs and was only All-NBA Third team, didn't make the Defensive Team, didn't receive an MVP vote.

Anyone else but Duncan in 03. :roll:

[kurple]

i'd say Kobe

[StephHamann]

CONTROVERSY!!!

Magic Johnson

79-83 Moses Malone

83-86 Larry Bird

86-91 MJ

[L.A. Jazz]

choosing out of West, Big O, Havlicek, Malone, Barkley, David Robinson, Iverson...
i would say Barkley. he was great in the early 90s but never better than Jordan and not good enough in the years MJ was on sebatical.
Kobe is debatable, but for me he was the best player 2006 to 2009, so he doesnt qualify.

[Unbiased_one]

Kobe obviously

[JohnnySic]

CONTROVERSY!!!

Magic Johnson

79-83 Moses Malone

83-86 Larry Bird

86-91 MJ
Ding Ding Ding!

[RidonKs]

wouldn't we all have to agree on who the best players in the league were at any given time before entering into this conversation?

i think its probably kobe... who i don't think was ever the best in the league. not while duncan was still in his prime in the middle of last decade and not once lebron entered his shortly thereafter. that crazy 35ppg year he has an argument but even then, duncan and kg and dirk just brought a different sklllset to the table.

the more i think on this the more i can't help but think kobe was the best in the league at some point during that span; especially considering all those player/coach polls that constantly had him right at the top of "worst player to go up against" or "who had the best season" lists.


thoughts? who else was perhaps controversially NEVER the best player in the league over the course of their whole tenure.

[pudman13]

How about Elgin Baylor? Early in his career it was Wilt, then probably Oscar, then at the end of his career probably Kareem.

[Aussie Dunker]

Durant could potentially be the correct answer (considering if you thought Lebron was still the best in the league last year)

Coming off injury I doubt he catches Lebron this season, and then Lebron will still be hard to catch for the next few seasons,

Then enter Anthony Davis in 2 or 3 years time...

Could be bad timing for KD historically

[ralph_i_el]

KD has to be mentioned, although there are a few guys that are greater than him (since he's only played less than half a career) that were never the best.

[HOoopCityJones]

D Wade.

[HOoopCityJones]

LOL at Kobe never being the best player in the league. Ask his peers and contemporaries if he never was.

Some dumbass kids in this thread. Or worse grown ass idiots.

[mattvNJ]

Oscar Roberstone, Malone(arguable has been on the cusp of the best), also I think Prime Tmac has to be up in the conversation. Popping of 30~ ppg and still couldnt get it done.

[T_L_P]

LOL at Kobe never being the best player in the league. Ask his peers and contemporaries if he never was.

Some dumbass kids in this thread. Or worse grown ass idiots.

One thing I will say: unlike the other greats since MJ (Shaq, Duncan, LeBron), Kobe doesn't have that one season where was the best individual player and he had team success.

Shaq has 00
Duncan has 03
LeBron has 12.

Kobe's closest case is 01, but the regular season does still count, and Shaq was definitely ahead of him there. Then in 09 LeBron had a much, much better statistical season. You can make a case for him being the best player in either of those seasons, but there's not a real gap like there is for the other three mentioned above. :confusedshrug:

[Genaro]

Let the hate from Kobe aside. He was the best player in the league from 05-06 until 09-10.

And answering OP, I think it's probably Barkley, West or David Robinson.

[9512]

I would say Pistol Pete Maravich (dark horse).

His career was during the 1970s which was an era mostly forgotten compared to the 1960s, 80s, 90s, etc....

Pistol Pete was not known as a team player and accumulated points and flashy plays but never won the title. He has had other players who had gotten MVPs over him.

I guess not too different from a 70s version of Tracy McGrady. Both are great scorers and were popular with fans for their flashy plays. Both never experienced playoff success let alone winning it all.

Eerie similarities: Both became role players their last stint in the NBA (Pistol with the Celts and Tmac with the Spurs). they both were coat tail riding as bench warmers but their teams fell short in 1980 (Pistol) and 2013 (Tmac). But the next season the Celts and the Spurs won it all (1981 and 2014) after Pistol and Tmac retired from the NBA for good.

[T_L_P]

But the next season the Celts and the Spurs won it all (1981 and 2014) after Pistol and Tmac retired from the NBA for good.

Damn...

[HOoopCityJones]

One thing I will say: unlike the other greats since MJ (Shaq, Duncan, LeBron), Kobe doesn't have that one season where was the best individual player and he had team success.

Shaq has 00
Duncan has 03
LeBron has 12.

Kobe's closest case is 01, but the regular season does still count, and Shaq was definitely ahead of him there. Then in 09 LeBron had a much, much better statistical season. You can make a case for him being the best player in either of those seasons, but there's not a real gap like there is for the other three mentioned above. :confusedshrug:

Love how you completely dismiss 09. Kobe played some of the best basketball of his entire career with his third option being Lamar (not half as good as Manu) and his fourth being Ariza. (no bynum) The same Lebron who lost to the exact Team Kobe torched? oh ok.

Keep trolling clown.:lol

[IncarceratedBob]

Kobe 08 09 10

Played the best ball of his career and led his team to 3 straight Finals and won twice, winning FMVP both times.

Not sure anyone else was really close, maybe Wade in 09 but his impact on his team was zilch

[T_L_P]

Love how you completely dismiss 09. Kobe played some of the best basketball of his entire career with his third option being Lamar (not half as good as Manu) and his fourth being Ariza. (no bynum) The same Lebron who lost to the exact Team Kobe torched? oh ok.

Keep trolling clown.:lol

LeBron against Orlando: 39/8/8/1/1/.591 TS%

Gamescore of 29.3

Next best teammate (Mo Williams): Gamescore of 10.8

Kobe against Orlando: 32/6/7/1/1/.525 TS%

Gamescore of 22.8

Next best teammate (Pau): Gamescore of 17.6
Next best teammate (Odom): Gamescore of 10.3

LeBron had more Win Shares in the regular season than Kobe had in the regular season and Playoffs combined. Had more Playoff Win Shares in 9 less games. :facepalm

Also, what does Manu have to do with this? Manu in 03 (the only year I mentioned Duncan) averaged 8/3/3. Odom in 09 averaged 12/9/2. :facepalm

I said Kobe has a good/great case in 09. But he was not clearly the league's best player like Shaq was in 00, Duncan in 03, or LeBron in 2012. LeBron averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, FG%, better defense etc in the regular season and the Playoffs.

[HOoopCityJones]

LeBron against Orlando: 39/8/8/1/1/.591 TS%

Gamescore of 29.3

Next best teammate (Mo Williams): Gamescore of 10.8

Kobe against Orlando: 32/6/7/1/1/.525 TS%

Gamescore of 22.8

Next best teammate (Pau): Gamescore of 17.6
Next best teammate (Odom): Gamescore of 10.3

LeBron had more Win Shares in the regular season than Kobe had in the regular season and Playoffs combined. Had more Playoff Win Shares in 9 less games. :facepalm

Also, what does Manu have to do with this? Manu in 03 (the only year I mentioned Duncan) averaged 8/3/3. Odom in 09 averaged 12/9/2. :facepalm

I said Kobe has a good/great case in 09. But he was not clearly the league's best player like Shaq was in 00, Duncan in 03, or LeBron in 2012.


Who lead his Team to a victory though?

[Trollsmasher]

Kobe

[raiderfan19]

Who lead his Team to a victory though?
Phil jackson

[HOoopCityJones]

Phil jackson

Yup and I guess Eric Spo lead all his championship Teams to theirs. :oldlol:

Stop being an idiot , I'm talking about on the hardwood man.

[T_L_P]

Who lead his Team to a victory though?

Then why do you preach Kobe as being the best player in 06, 07 or 08 (or probably even 03, not sure if that was you or not)?

[SugarHill]

LeBron against Orlando: 39/8/8/1/1/.591 TS%

Gamescore of 29.3

Next best teammate (Mo Williams): Gamescore of 10.8

Kobe against Orlando: 32/6/7/1/1/.525 TS%

Gamescore of 22.8

Next best teammate (Pau): Gamescore of 17.6
Next best teammate (Odom): Gamescore of 10.3

LeBron had more Win Shares in the regular season than Kobe had in the regular season and Playoffs combined. Had more Playoff Win Shares in 9 less games. :facepalm

Also, what does Manu have to do with this? Manu in 03 (the only year I mentioned Duncan) averaged 8/3/3. Odom in 09 averaged 12/9/2. :facepalm

I said Kobe has a good/great case in 09. But he was not clearly the league's best player like Shaq was in 00, Duncan in 03, or LeBron in 2012. LeBron averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, FG%, better defense etc in the regular season and the Playoffs.

ether

[GrapeApe]

Kobe 08 09 10

Played the best ball of his career and led his team to 3 straight Finals and won twice, winning FMVP both times.

Not sure anyone else was really close, maybe Wade in 09 but his impact on his team was zilch

:biggums:

[L.A. Jazz]

CONTROVERSY!!!

Magic Johnson

79-83 Moses Malone

83-86 Larry Bird

86-91 MJ
great idea. Magic was a great leader but the best player... debatable.

[colts19]

CONTROVERSY!!!

Magic Johnson

79-83 Moses Malone

83-86 Larry Bird

86-91 MJ
In the 4 years btw 86-87 and 89-90 Magic won the MVP award 3 times to MJ's one. The year MJ won it really should have been Bird 87-88. I think that means at least one of those years Magic was the best player in the league and probably two of those years.

[pudman13]

But the next season the Celts and the Spurs won it all (1981 and 2014) after Pistol and Tmac retired from the NBA for good.

Pete retired because he couldn't stand the thought of being a role player on the '81 Celtics. I have to wonder if they might *not* have won it all had he been on the team. I loved watching the guy play, and his brief period of time with the Celtics was when he was the most efficient ever (best FG% and fewest turnovers), but what would have happened had he ended up being the starting SG in 1981? How would that have changed things? Or, if he was the 6th man, would the overall atmosphere been as good? I really wonder.

[Cold soul]

KG even though he has great case in 04, Kobe was hands down best player in league years 2006-2008 he had three year run as league best.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

CONTROVERSY!!!

Magic Johnson

79-83 Moses Malone

83-86 Larry Bird

86-91 MJ
Bird and Magic were both better than MJ up to 88. 89-on was MJ

Bird was the best from 83-88

[rhowen4]

Bill Russell

[Dragonyeuw]

CONTROVERSY!!!

Magic Johnson

79-83 Moses Malone

83-86 Larry Bird

86-91 MJ

So you're saying that none of the players above were ever the best player in the league at one time or another? :biggums:

This question is geared towards someone like a Karl Malone/ Barkley kind of player. They're top 20 level players, were like top 3 at one or various points of their career, but never THE best player in any given season. Same with someone like David Robinson.....

[Shep]

Bill Russell
ya

[KyleKong]

Kobe.

No trolling, Kobe's best season in 2008 should be overshadowed by what Chris Paul did in 2008, but it's not.

[Cold soul]

Bill Russell

Good choice, I'll change and go with him.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I have Kobe best from 06-08 but he's the first name that comes to mind....

06: LeBron/Dirk/Wade
07: Duncan/Dirk/LeBron
08: Paul/LeBron/Garnett


are all reasonable to put over kobe...

[tpols]

LeBron against Orlando: 39/8/8/1/1/.591 TS%

Gamescore of 29.3

Next best teammate (Mo Williams): Gamescore of 10.8

Kobe against Orlando: 32/6/7/1/1/.525 TS%

Gamescore of 22.8

Next best teammate (Pau): Gamescore of 17.6
Next best teammate (Odom): Gamescore of 10.3

LeBron had more Win Shares in the regular season than Kobe had in the regular season and Playoffs combined. Had more Playoff Win Shares in 9 less games. :facepalm

Also, what does Manu have to do with this? Manu in 03 (the only year I mentioned Duncan) averaged 8/3/3. Odom in 09 averaged 12/9/2. :facepalm

I said Kobe has a good/great case in 09. But he was not clearly the league's best player like Shaq was in 00, Duncan in 03, or LeBron in 2012. LeBron averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, FG%, better defense etc in the regular season and the Playoffs.

08 Kobe. Pretty clearly the best player of the regular season + playoffs.


Eh.. and 2012 was weak. If you put any version of 06 to 08 Kobe in Lebrons spot there is he not the clear cut best? His only competition is a slightly pre-prime KD.. who he was clearly better than

[HOoopCityJones]

Give me a ****ing break.

[Magic 32]

LeBron against Orlando: 39/8/8/1/1/.591 TS%

Gamescore of 29.3

Next best teammate (Mo Williams): Gamescore of 10.8

Kobe against Orlando: 32/6/7/1/1/.525 TS%

Gamescore of 22.8

Next best teammate (Pau): Gamescore of 17.6
Next best teammate (Odom): Gamescore of 10.3



The only stats that matter are winning stats - Charley Rosen

4-1

[Fudge]

KD was the best player in the league last season, so he's automatically out of the conversation.

[Magic 32]

I have Kobe best from 06-08

THIS

Kobe was a Leon Powe game and a wheelchair away from a perfect season in 2008.

[HOoopCityJones]

06-10

Kobe.

Has a case for 03 and 04 as well.

[outbreak]

Kobe

[SouBeachTalents]

The only stats that matter are winning stats - Charley Rosen

4-1

Horry > Jordan

[HOoopCityJones]

Horry > Jordan

Wrong.

Jordan, Kobe > Lebron.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wrong.

Horry > Jordan > Kobe > Lebron.

Fixed

[Magic 32]

Horry > Jordan

The only stats that matter are winning stats - Charley Rosen

[SouBeachTalents]

The only stats that matter are winning stats - Charley Rosen

Define a "winning" stat. Is Chris Bosh's 0 points in Game 7 a "winning" stat?

[HOoopCityJones]

Fixed

Only thing Lebron is better than Kobe at is passing, rebounding and leaving squads.

[Magic 32]

Define a "winning" stat. Is Chris Bosh's 0 points in Game 7 a "winning" stat?

Zero stats are not stats.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PJju0k5Z26c/S7IB3c3AWfI/AAAAAAAABLo/KsiGYRJHP0Y/s1600/Yzma+headache.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

Only thing Lebron is better than Kobe at is passing, rebounding and leaving squads.

He has managed to win just as many Finals MVP's as Kobe though

[Magic 32]

He has managed to win just as many Finals MVP's as Kobe though

and also lose as much as Kobe ever has in the finals.

All in just 4 years. :applause:

[HOoopCityJones]

He has managed to win just as many Finals MVP's as Kobe though

He also reloads the deck whenever he feels the need.

[SouBeachTalents]

and also lose as much as Kobe ever has in the finals.

All in just 4 years. :applause:

I guess Kobe's 3 year stretch of missing the playoffs and two first round exists is more commendable than winning your conference

[Round Mound]

Barkley

[Dro]

Love how you completely dismiss 09. Kobe played some of the best basketball of his entire career with his third option being Lamar (not half as good as Manu) and his fourth being Ariza. (no bynum) The same Lebron who lost to the exact Team Kobe torched? oh ok.

Keep trolling clown.:lol
What the hell bro, you're really stanning in this thread..For the record, I also find it hard to believe that Kobe wasn't the best in the league at some point but people that are arguing against Kobe are making reasonable points for the most part..You don't have to get mad just because not everyone agrees Kobe was the best in the league at some point...Its not that serious.....And AGAIN, I agree with you for the most part......

[HOoopCityJones]

What the hell bro, you're really stanning in this thread..For the record, I also find it hard to believe that Kobe wasn't the best in the league at some point but people that are arguing against Kobe are making reasonable points for the most part..You don't have to get mad just because not everyone agrees Kobe was the best in the league at some point...Its not that serious.....And AGAIN, I agree with you for the most part......

I'm a Laker fan.

To watch such disrespect while the guy is in the Twilight of a hall of fame career is disgusting.

At least Kobe gave the something to hate.

[Magic 32]

I guess Kobe's 3 year stretch of missing the playoffs and two first round exists is more commendable than winning your conference

http://s29.postimg.org/a8mi6c26v/Mountrushmore.jpg

[riseagainst]

I guess Kobe's 3 year stretch of missing the playoffs and two first round exists is more commendable than winning your conference


when did this happen?

[Crystallas]

This would exclude any player that has won an MVP.

Jerry West

/thread

[Dro]

I'm a Laker fan.

To watch such disrespect while the guy is in the Twilight of a hall of fame career is disgusting.

At least Kobe gave the something to hate.
I agree, the disrespect he's been getting is uncalled for. Watching pre-season, he looks fine so far. Not like old Kobe but he's definitely still effective and capable of scoring. He has struggled on defense though. But he's making extra passes and he's scoring. I saw him go up for a jumper in the last game and he passed it mid-air to the big man down low for the score. Rarely saw Kobe do that in the past.

[9512]

Pete retired because he couldn't stand the thought of being a role player on the '81 Celtics. I have to wonder if they might *not* have won it all had he been on the team. I loved watching the guy play, and his brief period of time with the Celtics was when he was the most efficient ever (best FG% and fewest turnovers), but what would have happened had he ended up being the starting SG in 1981? How would that have changed things? Or, if he was the 6th man, would the overall atmosphere been as good? I really wonder.

I don't disagree with you. Also that devastating knee injury didn't help him at all except pushing him into retirement.

[Heavincent]

Kobe.

No trolling, Kobe's best season in 2008 should be overshadowed by what Chris Paul did in 2008, but it's not.

Why? Kobe was clearly the best player in 08.

[scm5]

It's gotta be Wade.

He's better than Barkley, Robinson, or Malone to me because he's a proven winner while at the same time putting up all-time great stats. He was never considered the best in the league.

[SugarHill]

Why? Kobe was clearly the best player in 08.
Clearly? :lol

[colts19]

It's gotta be Wade.

He's better than Barkley, Robinson, or Malone to me because he's a proven winner while at the same time putting up all-time great stats. He was never considered the best in the league.

Your kidding right. No way do I take wade over any of those guys.

[tpols]

Clearly? :lol

Lets see.

Kobe won MVP directly over Chris Paul.. while being pretty much neck and neck in the race. In one of the last games of the season Kobe drops 29/10/8 53FG to lead his team to a victory while Chris Paul had 15/17/6 but shot only 4 of 13.

So regular season.. Check.

In the playoffs, Chris Paul and his team got outed by the San Antonio Spurs. Kobe and his team murked the spurs and went onto to play in the NBA Finals.

Playoffs.. Check.


Do people forget the help Chris Paul had?

21/9 David west.. extremely underrated player qand leader. His success on Indy proves he was not just a product of anyones passing.

14 ppg 55%(:eek: ) 3pt shooting in the playoffs Peja.. thats pretty insane

10/7 63FG Tyson Chandler.. pretty close to what he produced while on the mavs in 2011 when he got a ton of credit


Meanwhile Kobe had 17/9 Pau and 14/10 Lamar Odom in the playoffs.. and then the next best Derek Fisher. Those two are very good players, but lets not act like these supporting casts arent comparable.


And Kobe led his team to more regular season wins than Chris Paul.. more playoff wins than Chris Paul.. and won the highest individual accolade, directly over Chris Paul.

[HurricaneKid]

I would argue neither Kobe nor Magic were ever the best player in the league.

And I would lean Magic in that one but its probably closer than most would admit.

[ImKobe]

I would argue neither Kobe nor Magic were ever the best player in the league.

And I would lean Magic in that one but its probably closer than most would admit.

Kobe from 06-07 was as good as any player in the league, not his fault he played on a horrible roster that would be the worst team in the league if you take him off it. 08 he won the MVP and led a team with 0 all-stars to the Finals, was on the same win pace when Bynum was healthy (prior to the Gasol trade)..09 he was flat out dominant in the Playoffs. You could also argue 01, because he did put up 33/7/7 against the WC teams in the Playoffs and led the most dominant Playoff team ever in winshares, b2b 45+/10+ games against the two best teams of that era..

[HurricaneKid]

Lets see.

Kobe won MVP directly over Chris Paul.. while being pretty much neck and neck in the race. In one of the last games of the season Kobe drops 29/10/8 53FG to lead his team to a victory while Chris Paul had 15/17/6 but shot only 4 of 13.

So regular season.. Check.

In the playoffs, Chris Paul and his team got outed by the San Antonio Spurs. Kobe and his team murked the spurs and went onto to play in the NBA Finals.

Playoffs.. Check.


Do people forget the help Chris Paul had?

21/9 David west.. extremely underrated player qand leader. His success on Indy proves he was not just a product of anyones passing.

14 ppg 55%(:eek: ) 3pt shooting in the playoffs Peja.. thats pretty insane

10/7 63FG Tyson Chandler.. pretty close to what he produced while on the mavs in 2011 when he got a ton of credit


Meanwhile Kobe had 17/9 Pau and 14/10 Lamar Odom in the playoffs.. and then the next best Derek Fisher. Those two are very good players, but lets not act like these supporting casts arent comparable.


And Kobe led his team to more regular season wins than Chris Paul.. more playoff wins than Chris Paul.. and won the highest individual accolade, directly over Chris Paul.

So he had a good game so you want to give him the entire regular season? Nah, I'll take the fella that had PG numbers no one has ever matched and led a team to a 17 win improvement.

People always want to point to 08 but Kobe was #8 in PER that year. He was #7 in WS, #6 in RAPM. And the RAPM was weighted double for playoff games. You would have to weight playoffs pretty heavily to get to a Kobe decision. And if you weighted them that much you have to go with KG.

I mean there was no clear evident #1 but arguing Kobe in 08 is more than a stretch.

[SouBeachTalents]

when did this happen?

I'd accuse you of trolling and trying to purposely distort what I said, but you actually might not be able to read

[tpols]

So he had a good game so you want to give him the entire regular season? Nah, I'll take the fella that had PG numbers no one has ever matched and led a team to a 17 win improvement.

People always want to point to 08 but Kobe was #8 in PER that year. He was #7 in WS, #6 in RAPM. And the RAPM was weighted double for playoff games. You would have to weight playoffs pretty heavily to get to a Kobe decision. And if you weighted them that much you have to go with KG.

I mean there was no clear evident #1 but arguing Kobe in 08 is more than a stretch.

If advanced Stata are the only thing you use to evaluate a player you aren't going to be right.

[SugarHill]

Lets see.

Kobe won MVP directly over Chris Paul.. while being pretty much neck and neck in the race. In one of the last games of the season Kobe drops 29/10/8 53FG to lead his team to a victory while Chris Paul had 15/17/6 but shot only 4 of 13.

So regular season.. Check.

In the playoffs, Chris Paul and his team got outed by the San Antonio Spurs. Kobe and his team murked the spurs and went onto to play in the NBA Finals.

Playoffs.. Check.


Do people forget the help Chris Paul had?

21/9 David west.. extremely underrated player qand leader. His success on Indy proves he was not just a product of anyones passing.

14 ppg 55%(:eek: ) 3pt shooting in the playoffs Peja.. thats pretty insane

10/7 63FG Tyson Chandler.. pretty close to what he produced while on the mavs in 2011 when he got a ton of credit


Meanwhile Kobe had 17/9 Pau and 14/10 Lamar Odom in the playoffs.. and then the next best Derek Fisher. Those two are very good players, but lets not act like these supporting casts arent comparable.


And Kobe led his team to more regular season wins than Chris Paul.. more playoff wins than Chris Paul.. and won the highest individual accolade, directly over Chris Paul.

Nope. LeBron in the regular season >

Couldn't care less if Kobe won the MVP. LeBron was better in the regular season just like Durant was better than LeBron the past year. Also, I'm not against the idea of Kobe being the best player in 2008. What I'm against is pretending like it's not close.

[ImKobe]

So he had a good game so you want to give him the entire regular season? Nah, I'll take the fella that had PG numbers no one has ever matched and led a team to a 17 win improvement.

People always want to point to 08 but Kobe was #8 in PER that year. He was #7 in WS, #6 in RAPM. And the RAPM was weighted double for playoff games. You would have to weight playoffs pretty heavily to get to a Kobe decision. And if you weighted them that much you have to go with KG.

I mean there was no clear evident #1 but arguing Kobe in 08 is more than a stretch.

CP3 had way more help in 08 and put up great fantasy numbers, yet got knocked off with HCA by the same team that Kobe dominated in the WCF.,,

Seems like CP3's stats are empty, since they aren't winning him a lot of Playoff games. Great players find a way to win games. CP3 finds a way to put up great numbers.

[tpols]

Nope. LeBron in the regular season >

Couldn't care less if Kobe won the MVP. LeBron was better in the regular season just like Durant was better than LeBron the past year. Also, I'm not against the idea of Kobe being the best player in 2008. What I'm against is pretending like it's not close.

No he wasn't.:oldlol:

Kobe was the most coined 'best player' from 06 and 07.. And 08 was like the pinnacle of his mix between elite individual play and elite team play.. He played his best defense besides 01 and 00.. Was the clear cut leader highest scorer best playmaker passer and most of all closer of his team just like LeBron. Kobe was flat out dominant closing games in the regular and especially during his run through the west.

Kobe literally won MVP over him by 3 spots.

And His cavs team in the playoffs took the Celtics farther than the Lakers were able to despite him having the worst series of his career.

Overall playoffs plus regular season, Kobe was considered better.

[HurricaneKid]

If advanced Stata are the only thing you use to evaluate a player you aren't going to be right.

Fair enough. But I think there are ~5 people on this site that can sufficiently scout players well enough to even bother discussing. And none of those 5 can overcome the deficits we are talking about here.

[TryToBeUnbias]

I Like the concept of the thread.

Let's stay on track here..

[Element]

Barkley or Malone..Admiral is in the convo as well, but only because his best years happened when MJ and Hakeem were at their peaks and winning titles