Why do people overrate Dirk and underrate Pierce?

[JohnnySic]

Career points:
Dirk: 26,786
Pierce: 25,031

Career ppg:
Dirk: 22.5
Pierce: 21.3

Career fg% / ft% / 3pfg%
Dirk: .476 / .879 / .383
Pierce: .447 / .807 / .370

Career rpg:
Dirk: 8.1
Pierce: 5.9

Career apg:
Dirk: 2.6
Pierce: 3.8

Career spg:
Dirk: 1.4
Pierce: 1.4

Career bpg:
Dirk: 0.9
Pierce: 0.6

All-star appearances:
Dirk: 12
Pierce: 10

Both have made 2 finals, won 1 championship, and 1 finals MVP. Dirk does also have a league MVP.

Dirk is ahead in everything except assists, but the margin is never that great. So why is Dirk generally considered top-30 (even top-20 by some) where as most dont even put Pierce in the top-50?

:confusedshrug:

[moaz]

no one underrates Pierce.
It is just that Dirk is better.

[FireDavidKahn]

Because Pierce didn't do shit before he was gifted Garnett and Allen.:sleeping

[GimmeThat]

because Dirk may have had more post moves than Pierce when comparing prime.

[JohnnySic]

Because Pierce didn't do shit before he was gifted Garnett and Allen.:sleeping
And neither did Dirk before he was gifted Chandler, Barrea, Terry, Peja, Marion, Haywood, Kidd, and Stevenson. :sleeping

[Charlie Sheen]

ppl used to say pierce was top 20 and 25 after the FMVP. I kinda thought he was still correcting lower or about where he's supposed to be now that he's old and almost useless. stats say otherwise but i'm always thinking to when i was 20 or 25...then i think til now im 39. lol i would smoke that guy and be grinning about it every time down the floor.

Dirk probly got overrated after his finals also. He's not quite Tim or KG or mailman or Barkley. He's not a terrible argument for the top 25 like Pierce was. KG as witnessed with injury the next season led that team to the ring. Dirk was the unquestioned leader of his. Burying Lakers and Heatles when he made his name forever.

[Collie]

And neither did Dirk before he was gifted Chandler, Barrea, Terry, Peja, Marion, Haywood, Kidd, and Stevenson. :sleeping

Yep! All comparable guys to KG, Ray Allen and Rondo.

[moaz]

And neither did Dirk before he was gifted Chandler, Barrea, Terry, Peja, Marion, Haywood, Kidd, and Stevenson. :sleeping

I like your definition of the word gifted. Then we must have at least 360 gifted players in the league.

[FireDavidKahn]

And neither did Dirk before he was gifted Chandler, Barrea, Terry, Peja, Marion, Haywood, Kidd, and Stevenson. :sleeping
:roll: Dirk has led his team to the playoffs 13 times in his career while Paul has done so only 4 times before he was gifted Garnett and Allen.:roll: :roll:

[JohnnySic]

:roll: Dirk has led his team to the playoffs 13 times in his career while Paul has done so only 4 times before he was gifted Garnett and Allen.:roll: :roll:
Dirk had better teammates. That '11 team was stacked. Early on he had Nash, Finley, and Jamison.

Who did Pierce have, Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis? :roll:

[moaz]

Dirk had better teammates. That '11 team was stacked. Early on he had Nash, Finley, and Jamison.

Who did Pierce have, Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis? :roll:

Dirk had Antoine too :oldlol:.

Btw Antoine Walker 98-2003 (Pierce years) 22 ppg, 9 rpg, 5 apg
Finley 98-2004 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 3.7 apg
Finley 98-2004 13 ppg, 3 rpg, 7 apg
Jamison 03-04 15 ppg, 6 rpg, 1 apg

Toine wasn't that bad with the Celtics you know. It wasn't his fault that there were no 4 pointers back then.

Edit and just for fun Ricky Davis 2003-06 17 ppg, 4 rpg, 3.6 apg.

[SugarHill]

ow. It wasn't his fault that there were no 4 pointers back then.
:roll:

[artificial]

You said it yourself: MVP.


It makes a big difference.

[STATUTORY]

as far as I'm concerned everything since 2008 Pierce has accomplished he's done it post-humously

RIP Paul Pierce 1977-2008

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfkrurxFlu1qd6kw4o1_400.jpg

[brain drain]

Career:

Dirk Career Playoff PER: 24.2
Pierce Career Playoff PER: 17.6

Dirk Playoff WS/48: 1.96
Pierce Playoff WS/48: 1.26

Dirk Playoff PPG: 25.6
Pierce Playoff PPG: 20.3

Dirk Playoff RPG: 10.1
Pierce Playoff RPG: 6.2

[FireDavidKahn]

Dirk had better teammates. That '11 team was stacked. Early on he had Nash, Finley, and Jamison.

Who did Pierce have, Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis? :roll:
Pierce played in the EAST. Keep digging a hole. There really isn't a whole lot that separates Pierce from Love except that Pierce played a wing position so it is more glamorous than a PF.

[eklip]

Dirk won the MVP award
Dirk was in two finals without all-star help (two different teams and coaches)
Dirk won a championship without all-star help
Dirk was also the undisputed best player on the Mavs since 2003 (Garnett was arguably better than Pierce in 2008)

If you just care about stats, then take a look at the playoff statistics:
Dirk: 25.6 pts / 10.1 reb / 2.2 ast / 2.0 tov on 46/37/89 shooting (.579 TS%), 24.2 PER
Pierce: 20.3 pts / 6.2 reb / 3.8 ast / 3.1 tov on 42/34/83 shooting (.551 TS%), 17.6 PER

All-NBA:
Dirk: 1st team: 4, 2nd team: 5, 3rd team: 3
Pierce: 1st team: 0, 2nd team: 1, 3rd team: 3

Dirk is ranked so high (top 20 or whatever) because there just aren't more players you can rank above him. There are still many players you can rank between Dirk and Pierce on the all-time list.

[ArbitraryWater]

I guess it comes down to Pierce never being a top 6 player in the league, while Dirk was an MVP candidate from 2005-2007, 2009-2011 and a top 5 player for minimum 6 seasons, with an argument to BEST PLAYER in 2006, 2007 AND 2011...

[GrapeApe]

I guess it comes down to Pierce never being a top 6 player in the league, while Dirk was an MVP candidate from 2005-2007, 2009-2011 and a top 5 player for minimum 6 seasons, with an argument to BEST PLAYER in 2006, 2007 AND 2011...

I don't think he has an argument in '06 and if he was the best player in '11 than Wade was the best player in '06. I agree with your point though. Pierce was never a "tier 1" player. He was consistently good for several years but was never truly elite.

[IncarceratedBob]

Pierce was never even the best player at his position, plus dude is ugly as hell. #beatingwiththeuglystick

[StephHamann]

Dirk had better teammates. That '11 team was stacked. Early on he had Nash, Finley, and Jamison.

Who did Pierce have, Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis? :roll:

But the East was terrible during the 00s

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't think he has an argument in '06 and if he was the best player in '11 than Wade was the best player in '06. I agree with your point though. Pierce was never a "tier 1" player. He was consistently good for several years but was never truly elite.

Dirk was the playoff's best player BY FAR in 2011...

In 2006 I would give that title to him aswell, but I guess you would to Wade for the finals.. So its pretty even, but when you consider regular season, I think it needs to be Dirk.

[JohnnySic]

Pierce had a pretty good '06 season as well: 26.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg.

[FireDavidKahn]

Pierce had a pretty good '06 season as well: 26.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg.
And no play offs, in the freaking EAST. That is even more stat stuffing than Love has ever done. You give Love a historically good defense and he could lead a team to a finals as well.

[riseagainst]

Dirk had Antoine too :oldlol:.

Btw Antoine Walker 98-2003 (Pierce years) 22 ppg, 9 rpg, 5 apg
Finley 98-2004 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 3.7 apg
Finley 98-2004 13 ppg, 3 rpg, 7 apg
Jamison 03-04 15 ppg, 6 rpg, 1 apg

Toine wasn't that bad with the Celtics you know. It wasn't his fault that there were no 4 pointers back then.

Edit and just for fun Ricky Davis 2003-06 17 ppg, 4 rpg, 3.6 apg.

:roll:

[Eric Cartman]

Pierce was unarguable in 2008, that close out game vs Cleveland was one of the best battles in NBA history. Dirk was the same in 2011. His team was underrated tho, he had 3 point snipers all around + barea being a beast.

Both owned Kobe and Lebron in the process.

[kentatm]

+ barea being a beast.

:biggums:

he actually put up worse overall numbers in the playoffs than he did the regular season.

he played pretty much how he always did in Dallas TBH. Sometimes he did jack shit, other games he'd explode a bit.

to say a guy that averaged 8.9ppg and 3.4 apg on 41% shooting was being a beast is silly.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Dirk was the playoff's best player BY FAR in 2011...

In 2006 I would give that title to him aswell, but I guess you would to Wade for the finals.. So its pretty even, but when you consider regular season, I think it needs to be Dirk.

Dirk has no argument for 06

[Eric Cartman]

:biggums:

he actually put up worse overall numbers in the playoffs than he did the regular season.

he played pretty much how he always did in Dallas TBH. Sometimes he did jack shit, other games he'd explode a bit.

to say a guy that averaged 8.9ppg and 3.4 apg on 41% shooting was being a beast is silly.

Come on dude you remember this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Est9V44mhA

Came through when it mattered the most.

[eklip]

I don't think he has an argument in '06 and if he was the best player in '11 than Wade was the best player in '06. I agree with your point though. Pierce was never a "tier 1" player. He was consistently good for several years but was never truly elite.
Dirk was probably the best player statistically in the regular season (led the league in PER and WS, which are the two most used stats to evaluate box-score statistics) + he had an all-time great run before the finals including a win against the 2005/2007 champs. His finals were mediocre, though.

I'm using PER and WS, because it's useless to discuss about pts, reb, ast, efficiency, turnovers, etc. If a player leads the league in WS and PER he definitely has an argument for being the best player in the league. I don't know if you could find an example in the history of NBA to prove the opposite.

[kentatm]

Come on dude you remember this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Est9V44mhA

Came through when it mattered the most.

umm... 12 points and 4 dimes is beasting? Let's not forget the Mavs swept the Lakers and won that game by 12.

I'm not saying JJB didnt contribute. He did. But he was a role player that did what he always did. He benefited greatly from opposing defenses focusing on Dirk and Terry.

[ArbitraryWater]

Pierce was unarguable in 2008, that close out game vs Cleveland was one of the best battles in NBA history. Dirk was the same in 2011. His team was underrated tho, he had 3 point snipers all around + barea being a beast.

Both owned Kobe and Lebron in the process.

:biggums:

Pierce 2008 = Dirk 2011


http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-04-21/1240266540309.jpg

[L.Kizzle]

Because Dirk is better ... the hell.


what next why do people overrate Kevin Garnett and underrate Vince Carter?

[bizil]

I don't think anybody really overrates Dirk. He totally revolutionized the PF position. He took what McAdoo did, put it in a 7 foot body, and really exploited the three ball. In terms of a PF who can TOTALLY take a game by the throat scoring and creating matchup nightmares, Dirk doesn't have to take a backseat to any PF ever! Dirk was so skilled that teams put SF's or swingmen on him to keep up with him on the perimeter. But Dirk would still shoot over them too and post them up. And create other opportunities for his teammates to score because they got a favorable matchup due to team's worrying about Dirk.

Pierce I feel is actually underrated. Many don't realize Pierce as a great case to be a top 10 GOAT SF. Also many don't realize Pierce's all around scoring skillset is among the top 6-7 all time at the SF position. Other than Bird, Durant, Melo, King, and Rick Barry what SF FOR SURE has a better total scoring skillset than Pierce. Hell even Pierce's all around game in general gets slept on by many too.

[Eric Cartman]

umm... 12 points and 4 dimes is beasting? Let's not forget the Mavs swept the Lakers and won that game by 12.

I'm not saying JJB didnt contribute. He did. But he was a role player that did what he always did. He benefited greatly from opposing defenses focusing on Dirk and Terry.

Agreed.