Kevin Love reacts to Kyrie's vision

[Hoopz2332]

http://giant.gfycat.com/PassionateAncientGalapagossealion.gif

[Cavalier]

Looks like he did a little fist pump at the end. He's just not used to playing with prolific scorers yet but he'll get used to it. If I'm not mistaken this was during that few minute span where Irving was on fire.

[Cocaine80s]

How did he teleport to the rim tho?

[RidonKs]

that's hilarious. to the first poster who replied, it doesn't matter what love's goddamn expectations were based on his experience in talent-less minnasota. irving made the wrong basketball play. he didn't pass it to his wide open superstar 3pt marksman. he knocked down a tough shot but that's inconsequential in the sense that, not just as a point guard who's ENTRUSTED with playmaking on a team, but just as any basketball player who's EXPECTED to just make the right play, kyrie failed.

but that quick crossover and hide behind the screen for the pull up = goddamn he can put it in the hoop :bowdown:

[VeeCee15]

the higher percentage shot and CORRECT play was to give the ball up to kevin love.

Just terrible. Doesn't matter if he made the shot..because if the same play or situation came up 100 times..the cavs would be at a net LOSS with kyrie taking that shot as opposed to giving it up to Love.

The point guard needs to L2PLAY pg.

[HomieWeMajor]

Love should be happy. More rebounds for him to statpad .

[Magic 32]

Love this.

[Suguru101]

Saw that live and noticed Love's reaction. I was really put off. Kyrie is just not a pass first point guard.

Hopefully his vision improves. It wasn't that he didn't choose to pass... i think he literally had tunnel vision and didn't see Love wide open, which is a problem.

[RidonKs]

the higher percentage shot and CORRECT play was to give the ball up to kevin love.

Just terrible. Doesn't matter if he made the shot..because if the same play or situation came up 100 times..the cavs would be at a net LOSS with kyrie taking that shot as opposed to giving it up to Love.

The point guard needs to L2PLAY pg.
not necessarily in all cases. and certainly not necessarily in cleveland as lebron james' wingman. the team would be better if kyrie made good pg-like decisions ala chauncey billups or gary payton or isaiah thomas. but kyrie is such a spectacular shotmaker and he's running with one of the greatest playmakers in nba history. so no, the point guard doesn't need to L2PLAY pg.

even though he probably should. but so should blake griffin and dermarr derozen. everybody should have the trained instincts of a point guard... in a perfect world.

[stalkerforlife]

Kyrie made the shot, but giving Love the wide open look was a better precedent to set. When a player of Love's caliber is ignored due to selfishness, it can easily turn into a debacle.

Hit the open man, Kyrie...you're going to lose the team.

[Undisputed]

I like Kyrie, but damn...feed the talent dude. You're a point guard.

[stalkerforlife]

Rondo may be a better fit for Cleveland.

Kyrie is like a young git in jail that has a lot to prove, but isn't really all that hard or experienced enough to take down the vets.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: no one even REMOTELY close to Love:roll: :roll: :roll:

[VeeCee15]

The PG needs to L2PLAY pg because he has two 25+ ppg scorers on his team..and on that play, one of them was WIDE OPEN.

Not to mention kyrie isn't even a 25 PPG scorer.

It was a bad basketball decision by Kyrie dude needs to learn to pass first or be more aware. IF that was lebron with the ball, 100% would have saw Love and passed it to him. Love was wide open.

PS: kyrie Irving also has the worst defense of any PG i've seen in the L.

[RidonKs]

Rondo may be a better fit for Cleveland.

Kyrie is like a young git in jail that has a lot to prove, but isn't really all that hard or experienced enough to take down the vets.
goddamn never thought of that but no question he would be. and waiters would fit in all the more... in fact he'd probably turn into a ray allen paul pierce slightly worse hybrid.

[Cavalier]

that's hilarious. to the first poster who replied, it doesn't matter what love's goddamn expectations were based on his experience in talent-less minnasota. irving made the wrong basketball play. he didn't pass it to his wide open superstar 3pt marksman. he knocked down a tough shot but that's inconsequential in the sense that, not just as a point guard who's ENTRUSTED with playmaking on a team, but just as any basketball player who's EXPECTED to just make the right play, kyrie failed.

but that quick crossover and hide behind the screen for the pull up = goddamn he can put it in the hoop :bowdown:

Yeah I was lightweight joking. I was actually pretty irked last night that they weren't running plays and getting the ball to Love in good positions. Hopefully Irving and Waiters cut out some of these long 2pt attempts as the season progresses.

[AboutBuckets]

Yeah the only thing that remotely saves his ass on this one is that the shot went in. 19 foot dribble pull up with an active defender on you, or hit the (arguably) best stretch 4 in the league for a wide open spot-up 3? That's the type of shit that will get you benched

[RidonKs]

Yeah I was lightweight joking. I was actually pretty irked last night that they weren't running plays and getting the ball to Love in good positions. Hopefully Irving and Waiters cut out some of these long 2pt attempts as the season progresses.
i expect them to. there's great leadership on that team with lebron and andy plus the vets like miller and marion. maybe allen?

irving had just gotten his shit handed to him by rose so that explains the chucking (and making) in the 3rd. competitiveness got the better of him.

love knows he can get his, he's been doing 25/10 for a few years. and come the reg season, blatt will (hopefully) run the second unit through him and one of irving or waiters. i doubt anybody puts up with either of them chucking up too many shots... blatt seems stern enough but if not him, lebron will pipe up.

[VeeCee15]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

If that was a heat check i sort of understand it

[RidonKs]

If that was a heat check i sort of understand it
totally was

[Magic 32]

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team

To be the third superstar that all Lebron-lead teams need to get out of the Least.

B*tch

[Eric Cartman]

PS: kyrie Irving also has the worst defense of any PG i've seen in the L.

You ain't lying dude.

To be fair Love is also close to the worst in his position as well.

[Cavalier]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.

:biggums:

[stalkerforlife]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.

Wtf? :roll:

[NattyPButter]

there was a another scene when Love put his head down when he didn't get the ball too.

[Undisputed]

Rondo may be a better fit for Cleveland.

Kyrie is like a young git in jail that has a lot to prove, but isn't really all that hard or experienced enough to take down the vets.
Rondo would make the Cavs nearly unstoppable. Not as much of a deep threat as Kyrie, but you have to respect his shot, speed, and he plays tough D. Man...good thing that'll probably never happen. LBJ and Rondo, holy shit.

[RidonKs]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.
lebron and love and premier pick and roll bigs. kyrie is a premier pick and roll small. with speed/finishing ability & handle/jumper.

his purpose would be much more obvious if he was already a better defender. you're right that irving and love and also waiters make for a very redundant trio. that's why getting rondo for irving or getting a 3&d wing for waiters would make a lot of sense. or waiters will just lose crunch time minutes to dellevadova.

but irving does have an obvious role. he's a scoring point guard. like rose, westbrook, parker, etc. he's also young. his role is to score when the opportunity presents itself and pass when it doesn't. with all the talent on this team, he should avoid forcing the issue. i have faith he will.

[Brizzly]

Rondo may be a better fit for Cleveland.

Kyrie is like a young git in jail that has a lot to prove, but isn't really all that hard or experienced enough to take down the vets.

Wouldn't work with LeBron with his lack of an outside touch, once LeBron sets that little brat straight his 3pt shooting will be vital.

[NattyPButter]

I just noticed that the part where Love puts his head down is also added into the video. Kyrie was not passing the ball when he should have.

[oarabbus]

Kyrie made the shot, but giving Love the wide open look was a better precedent to set. When a player of Love's caliber is ignored due to selfishness, it can easily turn into a debacle.

Hit the open man, Kyrie...you're going to lose the team.


It's more than just "hit the open man". Last season, LeBron was a 37.9% 3pt shooter.

Love was 37.6%. Rounded they are both basically 38% shooters. It doesn't matter that he made the shot... but imagine if he did that on a play with a wide open LeBron looking to take a 3? What Kyrie did right there has the same effect on the team. That's real bad point guard play.

All great pointguards with few exceptions ultimately looked to pass first and feed their big man. Stockton and Malone, Amar'e and Nash, Magic and Kareem/the whole squad, Timmy/Parker. Unless you have a transcendant type player like an MJ or LeBron, feeding the big man is how point guards win championships.

Basketball is a big man's game and Kyrie isn't Kobe or Jordan, so he shouldn't play like them. Ultimately one of the most skilled players of all time, Iverson, never won one, despite being a one in a generation level player. Basically, if Kyrie wants to win and be great, he'll realize he's 3rd on the totem pole.

6'8" LeBron and 6'10" Love are by far the best combo of bigs (Bron not being a true big, but can play at the 4, Love can play 5) of any team in the league. No team has two guys as athletic, good at shooting 3s, good at passing, and good at rebounding (mostly Love) combo as them two. It's a coaches wet dream. The way to win is playing inside out. Or they'll play Bron/Love/Varejao with everyone playing their true positions,


Let's not get it twisted: the Cavs success depends on the performance of LeBron + Love. Kyrie is not the focal point whatsoever. John Wall doesn't have teammates nearly as good as either of them, but he still looks to pass first everytime. Kyrie needs to be that if he wants to be great right now.

[VeeCee15]

Trade Kyrie Irving he's a scoring guard imposing as a point guard.
You just need one ball dominant player on a team...either LEBRON or KYRIE and we all know which one it is.

KYRIE would thrive...wait a minute he won't he is not ATHLETIC ENOUGH to be a first option anywhere. Kyrie Irving is like a crappy version of Derek Rose who cannot play defense. Only thing he has on D Rose are fancy handles (which kyrie needs cause he ain't that athletic).

Kyrie has 0 effect on Defense..he's like a pylon that shoots out confetti everytime someone drives passes him

[RidonKs]

a crappy rose knockoff is still good for top ten pg in the league and i'd say top ten shotmaker in the league too. why the fk would kyrie irving need the ball in his hands to be effective? he's got range and craft at finishing. get the guy in a system with lots of motion and watch him play with the defense. alternatively he knocks down open set shots. doesn't matter because the end result is the ball through the bottom of the hoop.

[Cocaine80s]

Ok one pass that Kyrie missed and people calling for him to be traded? :facepalm


This ***** has been playing with trash for 3 years now where it was a better decision to shoot than pass. Hes gonna need some time to adjust to his new teammates

[chazzy]

You guys need to chill. That wasn't a bad shot at all, and you see plays like this every game. It just stands out because of Love's reaction

[NZStreetBaller]

this teams going to bust ..... lebron plays better when he has the ball most of the time. kyrie's too greedy for lebron.... and is more of scorer then a floor general and loves just going to get thrown into the bosh position. add that to poor defense and it equals bust!!! this team needs to gel properly in order to win the chip.

[2swift4u]

You guys need to chill. That wasn't a bad shot at all, and you see plays like this every game. It just stands out because of Love's reaction


this. Also the times of pass-first PGs are long gone so I don't understand all the fuss.

[Taller than CP3]

lol it's happening.

Kyrie is the scapegoat and will be traded next season once the Cavs fail to win a ring.

[SyRyanYang]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.

Dat Twist doe
:roll: :roll:

[Nick Young]

:roll: :roll: :roll: its only preseason doe

[I<3NBA]

when Kyrie is in the zone, Cavs will blow teams out of the water. but when he's not, goddamn, Blatt better bench him.

[Doranku]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.

Mods?? I'm surprised y'all aren't all over this one considering he's saying this about your boy's teammate.

[PleezeBelieve]

Bu..bu..but Kyrie doesn't pass because he doesn't have talent around him. Oh wait... :oldlol:

[PleezeBelieve]

Love put up 30 on 12 shot when playing with Dion and Kyrie was hurt

Kyrie was butt hurt Rose was dusting his ass, so he went into And 1 mode. Very typical of this guy.

Irving will be traded if this team implodes

[Paul George 24]

Bu..bu..but Kyrie doesn't pass because he doesn't have talent around him. Oh wait... :oldlol:

he can't play defence should be more concern :lol

[MaxFly]

This is a preseason game and the guys are still getting used to each other. Let's hold off on any definitive analysis until we have some regular season games to actually draw conclusions from. Guys love to jump the gun.

[PleezeBelieve]

This is a preseason game and the guys are still getting used to each other. Let's hold off on any definitive analysis until we have some regular season games to actually draw conclusions from. Guys love to jump the gun.
A zebra can't change its stripes.

Why do you people insist on making excuses for this guy. He's a BALL HOG who only knows how to effect the game by scoring!! End of story.

[bluechox2]

love has actually done that multiple times so far this preseason...

already contemplating his free agency in the back of his mind

[FatComputerNerd]

Shoot it Kyrie!

[kurple]

but why the bad editing?

[Dro]

that's hilarious. to the first poster who replied, it doesn't matter what love's goddamn expectations were based on his experience in talent-less minnasota. irving made the wrong basketball play. he didn't pass it to his wide open superstar 3pt marksman. he knocked down a tough shot but that's inconsequential in the sense that, not just as a point guard who's ENTRUSTED with playmaking on a team, but just as any basketball player who's EXPECTED to just make the right play, kyrie failed.

but that quick crossover and hide behind the screen for the pull up = goddamn he can put it in the hoop :bowdown:
This pretty much.....

[La Frescobaldi]

Love should be happy. More rebounds for him to statpad .
from the wide open 3 point line he's going to get rebounds?

[Dro]

Rondo may be a better fit for Cleveland.

Kyrie is like a young git in jail that has a lot to prove, but isn't really all that hard or experienced enough to take down the vets.
Great point...:applause:

[FatComputerNerd]

Great point...:applause:

Not really.

Kyrie has already proven himself. Heck, he did it as a rookie...

BTW, he did have 7 assists that game, so I don't see why people continue to claim he's an unwilling passer, or lacks court-vision.

The proof is in the pudding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU3s_HRP5ig

[Dro]

so lets hope for a career ending injury.
:biggums:

[Dro]

Not really.

Kyrie has already proven himself. Heck, he did it as a rookie...

BTW, he did have 7 assists that game, so I don't see why people continue to claim he's an unwilling passer, or lacks court-vision.

The proof is in the pudding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU3s_HRP5ig
So you don't think a pass first point guard would be a better fit? Also one who plays defense and helps out on the boards? Rondo would have hit Love right on the money on that play.

[Dro]

lebron and love and premier pick and roll bigs. kyrie is a premier pick and roll small. with speed/finishing ability & handle/jumper.

his purpose would be much more obvious if he was already a better defender. you're right that irving and love and also waiters make for a very redundant trio. that's why getting rondo for irving or getting a 3&d wing for waiters would make a lot of sense. or waiters will just lose crunch time minutes to dellevadova.

but irving does have an obvious role. he's a scoring point guard. like rose, westbrook, parker, etc. he's also young. his role is to score when the opportunity presents itself and pass when it doesn't. with all the talent on this team, he should avoid forcing the issue. i have faith he will.
It seems like they should have kept CJ Miles, he seems to play good defense and he can knock down the 3. They may be better with Rondo/Miles as opposed to Irving/Waiters...

[Dro]

This is a preseason game and the guys are still getting used to each other. Let's hold off on any definitive analysis until we have some regular season games to actually draw conclusions from. Guys love to jump the gun.
This has nothing to do with getting used to each other. I'm sure Kyrie knows Love is a great 3 point shooter and he was wide open. Even a PG at the park playing with random players knows to make that pass...

Ill give him a slight pass, maybe he just took the shot because its pre-season and because he was going back at Rose. Wade and Harden were doing the same thing the other night also.

[FatComputerNerd]

So you don't think a pass first point guard would be a better fit? Also one who plays defense and helps out on the boards? Rondo would have hit Love right on the money on that play.


If said pass-first point-guard had a great jumper perhaps.

Rondo is great and I've always been a fan of him, but he would not fit this team. Any PG playing with LBJ needs to be a threat from long-range.

[Dro]

If said pass-first point-guard had a great jumper perhaps.

Rondo is great and I've always been a fan of him, but he would not fit this team. Any PG playing with LBJ needs to be a threat from long-range.
I understand what you mean about his shooting ability but I think Rondo has developed his shot enough at least to where teams have to respect, maybe not out to the 3 point line but they have to at least respect his mid-range shot. But also, defenders have been sagging off of Rondo for years and while it may affect spacing somewhat, it has never really seemed to affect his ability to be affective on offense because he's always moving, always cutting or setting screens which many PG's don't do.

[Inactive]

So you don't think a pass first point guard would be a better fit? Also one who plays defense and helps out on the boards? Rondo would have hit Love right on the money on that play. A non-shooting, control-freak point guard like Rondo would clash with Lebron.

If Kyrie can improve his defense, I think he will be a great fit. I don't expect him to play selfishly, or fail to find his teammates throughout the season.

[Hoopz2332]

Im ok with Kyrie looking to score more but that not when Lebron and LOve are both on the floor with him. Kyrie doesn't know how to run the show and hit the open man at all.:coleman:

[chosen_one6]

I'm pretty sure when they look at the tape they'll see it. They're still learning to play together and Kyrie is not used to having big time teammates to pass the ball to.

[tpols]

It's more than just "hit the open man". Last season, LeBron was a 37.9% 3pt shooter.

Love was 37.6%. Rounded they are both basically 38% shooters. It doesn't matter that he made the shot... but imagine if he did that on a play with a wide open LeBron looking to take a 3? What Kyrie did right there has the same effect on the team. That's real bad point guard play.

All great pointguards with few exceptions ultimately looked to pass first and feed their big man. Stockton and Malone, Amar'e and Nash, Magic and Kareem/the whole squad, Timmy/Parker. Unless you have a transcendant type player like an MJ or LeBron, feeding the big man is how point guards win championships.

Basketball is a big man's game and Kyrie isn't Kobe or Jordan, so he shouldn't play like them. Ultimately one of the most skilled players of all time, Iverson, never won one, despite being a one in a generation level player. Basically, if Kyrie wants to win and be great, he'll realize he's 3rd on the totem pole.

6'8" LeBron and 6'10" Love are by far the best combo of bigs (Bron not being a true big, but can play at the 4, Love can play 5) of any team in the league. No team has two guys as athletic, good at shooting 3s, good at passing, and good at rebounding (mostly Love) combo as them two. It's a coaches wet dream. The way to win is playing inside out. Or they'll play Bron/Love/Varejao with everyone playing their true positions,

I'm not sure there is a more athletic combination of big men (obviously Bron only plays 4 part time) who are that good at shooting 3s, passing, and rebounding (mostly Love) combined as those two guys are.

Let's not get it twisted: the Cavs success depends on the performance of LeBron + Love. Kyrie is not the focal point whatsoever. John Wall doesn't have teammates nearly as good as either of them, but he still looks to pass first everytime. Kyrie needs to be that if he wants to be great right now.

Isiah Thomas.

[tpols]

Kyrie's likely going to be this teams closer/big shot maker.. the shot in OP came Im guessing while he was on that hot streak getting bucket after bucket.. reminds me of fiba when he was just raining them in almost single handidly blowing the game wide open. When Kyrie gets hot, its pretty much game over

[Dro]

A non-shooting, control-freak point guard like Rondo would clash with Lebron.

If Kyrie can improve his defense, I think he will be a great fit. I don't expect him to play selfishly, or fail to find his teammates throughout the season.
I think he might be able to improve his defense...I'm not sure if he'll learn to play unselfishly.

On the other hand, I think if they had Rondo, it may benefit Lebron to be able to play without the ball sometimes. He can save some energy and focus on scoring when they need it.

[PleezeBelieve]

Mike Conley is who they need.

[tpols]

Mike Conley is who they need.

Yup a point guard who cant shoot.. would work wonders :hammerhead:

[Inactive]

I think he might be able to improve his defense...I'm not sure if he'll learn to play unselfishly. Blatt is a point guard coach, who wants them to move the ball, and play within a system. Lebron has also always preached pass first. So Kyrie will have plenty of encouragement from the leaders of the team to play unselfishly, as well as good mentors who can help him make better decisions on the court.

If he can't learn to play unselfishly with this team, it will be because he has a bad attitude, and doesn't want want to learn. It hasn't been my impression that he has that kind of personality.


On the other hand, I think if they had Rondo, it may benefit Lebron to be able to play without the ball sometimes. He can save some energy and focus on scoring when they need it.I think he potentially has the same opportunity with Kyrie. When Lebron doesn't have the energy to create something, he can defer to a young pg who can break down defenses himself. When Lebron does control the ball, opposing teams won't be able to sag off Kyrie, because he's a pretty good shooter.

[Dro]

Kyrie's likely going to be this teams closer/big shot maker.. the shot in OP came Im guessing while he was on that hot streak getting bucket after bucket.. reminds me of fiba when he was just raining them in almost single handidly blowing the game wide open. When Kyrie gets hot, its pretty much game over
Now, I didn't see the game but if this is the case, then I'll give him a bit more of a pass...

[Dro]

Blatt is a point guard coach, who wants them to move the ball, and play within a system. Lebron has also always preached pass first. So Kyrie will have plenty of encouragement from the leaders of the team to play unselfishly, as well as good mentors who can help him make better decisions on the court.

If he can't learn to play unselfishly with this team, it will be because he has a bad attitude, and doesn't want want to learn. It hasn't been my impression that he has that kind of personality.

I think he potentially has the same opportunity with Kyrie. When Lebron doesn't have the energy to create something, he can defer to a young pg who can break down defenses himself. When Lebron does control the ball, opposing teams won't be able to sag off Kyrie, because he's a pretty good shooter.
I agree with you there definitely...If they can learn to play together, they'll be virtually unstoppable....And honestly, you know a lot more about his personality than I do. I keep up with Kyrie, but I don't really know much about his ability to be a team player other than watching some games and watching Uncle Drew, lol...

[Mass Debator]

I don't care who you are but if a bucket is made, you have no right to complain. Put up a fit another time off a brick.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kyrie Irving is the prototypical style-over-substance player. Hence, all the fan-boy worshipers.

[chazzy]

Kyrie Irving is the prototypical style-over-substance player. Hence, all the fan-boy worshipers.
MVP of the world

[oarabbus]

Isiah Thomas.


I knew someone would bring him up, he is the ONE exception. And let's not forget that team goes nowhere without Laimbeer and Mahorn and the general culture of the team of beating the opponents into a bloody pulp.


Oh yeah and Kyrie is no Isiah Thomas.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie Irving is the prototypical style-over-substance player. Hence, all the fan-boy worshipers.
Sounds like you really know your stuff when it comes to Kyrie's game, which is interesting since I've seen so little of you in Cavs game threads over the last three years. To have that kind of firm stance must've come from an incredible amount of research.

[riseagainst]

Sounds like you really know your stuff when it comes to Kyrie's game, which is interesting since I've seen so little of you in Cavs game threads over the last three years. To have that kind of firm stance must've come from an incredible amount of research.

:oldlol:

[robert de niro]

Sounds like you really know your stuff when it comes to Kyrie's game, which is interesting since I've seen so little of you in Cavs game threads over the last three years. To have that kind of firm stance must've come from an incredible amount of research.
oh shit :lol

[RidonKs]

Kyrie Irving is the prototypical style-over-substance player. Hence, all the fan-boy worshipers.
you're mistaking excess of style with lack of substance

kyrie puts the ball in the hoop. that's substantial. it's kind of irrelevant how he does it, though the way he happens to do it always looks pretty damn good.

[ILLsmak]

I think a shooter is meant to space the floor. He shouldn't be worried about shooting it unless the creator is in trouble. He wasn't.

As a shooter, you are a decoy. A timely three is good, but especially at the pg position, it's arguable whether wetting the other teams primary ball handler is worth it.

The key is just to not get out of control. And keep the defense scrambling.

-Smak

[BigMacAttack]

In b4 AW gets banned.

Will be interesting to see if Kyrie can learn to play pass first or not. I still think LBJ will be dominating the ball a lot more then him no matter what has been said.

[RedBlackAttack]

In b4 AW gets banned.

Will be interesting to see if Kyrie can learn to play pass first or not. I still think LBJ will be dominating the ball a lot more then him no matter what has been said.
LeBron and Love's presence on the floor is going to open the floor up for Kyrie to score as well as playmake. I don't see why it has to be all one way or the other. There has to be a balance in order to get the best out of the whole roster, Kyrie included. This isn't Mario Chalmers, here. We are talking about one of the most gifted young scorers in the league. Trying to fit him into a box is to neuter some of his most important traits as a player.

As long as the Cavs' offense is putting up numbers efficiently, who cares how the shots are distributed? I foresee a team that has different guys getting the majority of the looks depending on the night and the matchups. And, that's how Blatt's offense is intended to run. Take advantage of the mismatches created by ball movement, switches and talent level.

[oarabbus]

LeBron and Love's presence on the floor is going to open the floor up for Kyrie to score as well as playmake. I don't see why it has to be all one way or the other. There has to be a balance in order to get the best out of the whole roster, Kyrie included. This isn't Mario Chalmers, here. We are talking about one of the most gifted young scorers in the league. Trying to fit him into a box is to neuter some of his most important traits as a player.

As long as the Cavs' offense is putting up numbers efficiently, who cares how the shots are distributed? I foresee a team that has different guys getting the majority of the looks depending on the night and the matchups. And, that's how Blatt's offense is intended to run. Take advantage of the mismatches created by ball movement, switches and talent level.

Well, let's say Kyrie is going on a tear and takes the most shots, Love takes the 2nd most, and LeBron usually takes 6-8 shots per game, making over 60% of them. That's very efficient, would you not have a problem with that? You gotta go with the better player or bigger guy if it's a tie, in this case Love is bigger and better.

[RedBlackAttack]

Well, let's say Kyrie is going on a tear and takes the most shots, Love takes the 2nd most, and LeBron usually takes 6-8 shots per game, making over 60% of them. That's very efficient, would you not have a problem with that? You gotta go with the better player or bigger guy if it's a tie, in this case Love is bigger and better.
I don't think it is wise to have these rigid tiers of offensive performance when you are talking about a team with this much offensive talent and in a system that is (allegedly) built around creating mismatches all over the floor on a given possession. If we were running Mike Brown's slow it down, isolation based set, then maybe that simple formula could come in handy. This offense will resemble the Spurs more than the 2013 Heat, at least in theory.

In general, the Spurs don't seem to care who is getting the shots, as long as the system is dictating them and the team's efficiency is high. The Cavs shot almost 50% from the field against the Bulls, one of the very best defensive teams in the league. Hard to complain, unless you're just looking at a boxscore and sticking to a rigid "order of importance" list.

[iznogood]

I think a shooter is meant to space the floor. He shouldn't be worried about shooting it unless the creator is in trouble. He wasn't.

While I agree with this, I don't think it applies to this situation. When you have a man advantage you're supposed to look for the open man. Especially if he happens to be one pass away and one of the best spot up shooters in the league. Irving took a contested pull up jumper, which is a difficult shot. An open spot up 3 is always going to be the easier shot to make no matter who is taking the pull up jump shot.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have no problem with Kyrie (or PGs in general) taking many shots, but the debate to "pass first" or not doesn't apply to situations, where somebody is wide open. This is a play every PG should make, no matter what their playing style is.

[RedBlackAttack]

While I agree with this, I don't think it applies to this situation. When you have a man advantage you're supposed to look for the open man. Especially if he happens to be one pass away and one of the best spot up shooters in the league. Irving took a contested pull up jumper, which is a difficult shot. An open spot up 3 is always going to be the easier shot to make no matter who is taking the pull up jump shot.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have no problem with Kyrie (or PGs in general) taking many shots, but the debate to "pass first" or not doesn't apply to situations, where somebody is wide open. This is a play every PG should make, no matter what their playing style is.
All this debate over the play in the OP? Seriously?

First of all, Kyrie's jumper was hardly contested. It was from straight away and the defender just lunged from the otherside of the screen to get a hand up as he was releasing. That's not highly contested. It was just barely contested. That was not a difficult shot for Kyrie. He'll make a high percentage of those. In season's before, Kyrie would have been dealing with two defenders on a play like that. Because of Love's presence, it was just a single defender and he easily used the screen to get himself a nice, open jumper -- which he calmly knocked down.

Secondly, a defender was in the area of Love. Yes, he was off of him and, with Love's quick release, he would have had an open shot, but how this play generated this much discussion is baffling.

What am I missing?

[RidonKs]

All this debate over the play in the OP? Seriously?

First of all, Kyrie's jumper was hardly contested. It was from straight away and the defender just lunged from the otherside of the screen to get a hand up as he was releasing. That's not highly contested. It was just barely contested. That was not a difficult shot for Kyrie. He'll make a high percentage of those. In season's before, Kyrie would have been dealing with two defenders on a play like that. Because of Love's presence, it was just a single defender and he easily used the screen to get himself a nice, open jumper -- which he calmly knocked down.

Secondly, a defender was in the area of Love. Yes, he was off of him and, with Love's quick release, he would have had an open shot, but how this play generated this much discussion is baffling.

What am I missing?
the more interesting "lets spend 50 posts overanalyzing a kyrie gif" is the d-rose layup thread... but neither play warrants this much talk lol

[RedBlackAttack]

the more interesting "lets spend 50 posts overanalyzing a kyrie gif" is the d-rose layup thread... but neither play warrants this much talk lol
Well, I just chalked that one up to people getting overexcited about (a) Derrick Rose looking super-explosive again and (b) the general hype around "crossovers" that now exists in the basketball community.

But, this play?

http://giant.gfycat.com/PassionateAncientGalapagossealion.gif


There was absolutely nothing wrong with Kyrie taking that shot. :oldlol:

Maybe I'll chalk this up to people not having watched much of Kyrie over his first three years in the league, because with that much time to get his rhythm from straight away, he's going to make it 50+% of the time. Yes, I'd hasten to guess at an even higher rate than Love can make a wing three-pointer. As for Love, maybe it'll take him a little time to adjust to playing with a point guard who can actually make a shot occasionally because he certainly didn't have that in Minnesota.

[iznogood]

Basketball is a game of habits. The players don't play with some sort of switch that allows them to choose between the preseason, regular season and playoffs. Come playoff time, the defenses are better and open looks harder to get, so every possession counts and you want to maximise the amount of open looks you get. You can defend Kyrie all you want, but the fact remains he took a harder and a less effective shot and he does it often. The fact that he's a very talented scorer doesn't really change that. Had Tony Parker missed a wide open Bonner or Boris Diaw like that, Pop would've taken him out of the game.

And nobody forces you to discuss it if you don't want to. If you don't feel this needs to be discussed, don't post into this thread.

[RedBlackAttack]

Basketball is a game of habits. The players don't play with some sort of switch that allows them to choose between the preseason, regular season and playoffs. Come playoff time, the defenses are better and open looks harder to get, so every possession counts and you want to maximise the amount of open looks you get. You can defend Kyrie all you want, but the fact remains he took a harder and a less effective shot and he does it often. The fact that he's a very talented scorer doesn't really change that. Had Tony Parker missed a wide open Bonner or Boris Diaw like that, Pop would've taken him out of the game.

And nobody forces you to discuss it if you don't want to. If you don't feel this needs to be discussed, don't post into this thread.
Thing is, that's not a difficult shot at all for him. Those who've watched him for his first three years in the league know that. A midrange shot from straight away in rhythm is one of his most reliable weapons. And, people are talking about it being "highly contested." That shot was just barely contested and that result will happen more than half the time if he gets that shot that easily.

You'll realize this the more you watch him. If Gasol had stepped out on the screen? Different story. He didn't and the result was a pretty wide open look.

[iznogood]

Thing is, that's not a difficult shot at all for him. Those who've watched him for his first three years in the league know that. A midrange shot from straight away in rhythm is one of his most reliable weapons. And, people are talking about it being "highly contested." That shot was just barely contested and that result will happen more than half the time if he gets that shot that easily.

You'll realize this the more you watch him. If Gasol had stepped out on the screen? Different story. He didn't and the result was a pretty wide open look.
This is ridiculous argumentation, an open 3 is much easier shot, especially for a shooter like Love. Not to mention it is worth 50% more. Even more stupid is repeating that everyone who has been watching Kyrie for the past couple of years should know that. I've been watching Kobe Bryant for almost 20 years and I know he's able to make many of the ridiculous shots he takes, but that doesn't make them less ridiculous. A bad shot is a bad shot, no matter who is taking it and if it goes in.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is ridiculous argumentation, an open 3 is much easier shot, especially for a shooter like Love. Not to mention it is worth 50% more. Even more stupid is repeating that everyone who has been watching Kyrie for the past couple of years should know that. I've been watching Kobe Bryant for almost 20 years and I know he's able to make many of the ridiculous shots he takes, but that doesn't make them less ridiculous. A bad shot is a bad shot, no matter who is taking it and if it goes in.
Why are you talking about Kobe's ridiculous shots? I agree, a fadeaway 20-footer over two defenders is a bad shot whether it goes in or not. This was not even close to that.

Watch how the defense plays it. They essentially gave Kyrie -- who is an exceptional midrange shooter -- an open jumper from straight away. Gasol dropped off on the screen, concerned about a potential drive to the basket and the Cavs' other weapons. The result was a rhythm 18-footer while the defender tried to get around the screen.

I can guarantee you that David Blatt has no problem with that shot.

http://giant.gfycat.com/PassionateAncientGalapagossealion.gif


Kyrie will average 30+ a game if teams consistently give him that shot. But, they'll learn not to and it will make the Cavs that much tougher to defend. You cannot drop off the screen at the top of the key when Kyrie has the ball in his hands like that. He'll kill you with his midrange game. Someone has to step out there, whether it is Gasol or Noah.

[DoodleDa]

Why are you talking about Kobe's ridiculous shots? I agree, a fadeaway 20-footer over two defenders is a bad shot whether it goes in or not. This was not even close to that.

Watch how the defense plays it. They essentially gave Kyrie -- who is an exceptional midrange shooter -- an open jumper from straight away. Gasol dropped off on the screen, concerned about a potential drive to the basket and the Cavs' other weapons. The result was a rhythm 18-footer while the defender tried to get around the screen.

I can guarantee you that David Blatt has no problem with that shot.

http://giant.gfycat.com/PassionateAncientGalapagossealion.gif


Kyrie will average 30+ a game if teams consistently give him that shot. But, they'll learn not to and it will make the Cavs that much tougher to defend. You cannot drop off the screen at the top of the key when Kyrie has the ball in his hands like that. He'll kill you with his midrange game.

I honestly don't know if you're serious or not.

[RedBlackAttack]

I honestly don't know if you're serious or not.
Serious about what? Kyrie going around a screen and pulling up for an open midrange jumper from straight away? Or, that the Bulls' interior defenders stood and watched instead of stepping out?

Because that's exactly what happened.

You should definitely use another alt to agree with yourself, though.

[oarabbus]

All this debate over the play in the OP? Seriously?

First of all, Kyrie's jumper was hardly contested. It was from straight away and the defender just lunged from the otherside of the screen to get a hand up as he was releasing. That's not highly contested. It was just barely contested. That was not a difficult shot for Kyrie. He'll make a high percentage of those. In season's before, Kyrie would have been dealing with two defenders on a play like that. Because of Love's presence, it was just a single defender and he easily used the screen to get himself a nice, open jumper -- which he calmly knocked down.

Secondly, a defender was in the area of Love. Yes, he was off of him and, with Love's quick release, he would have had an open shot, but how this play generated this much discussion is baffling.

What am I missing?

Steph Curry, John Wall, CP3, these guys are all snipers, but if Klay/Beal/Redick is open they will find them EVERY time. That's how a PG is supposed to play :confusedshrug:


The thing is Kyrie has a history of this type of play. Which was no problem at all and could even be enjoyable to watch last year when the Cavs had no expectations and Kyrie could indulge in all the heroics he wanted. Sure, it's preseason, it's not just that this play exposed Kyrie's (lack of) vision, but Love was actively calling for the ball and Kyrie ignored him. We already know he had problems sharing with Waiters last year, regardless of if Waiters was the instigator.

[iznogood]

You're taking Kyrie's shot out of context. If this was the only option available to him, then I'd call it a good read out of a pick and roll. But he had a much better option to choose. All he had to do was take another hard dribble to suck in the defense and Love would've had enough time to eat a hamburger before he made that shot. And the defender actually recovered to contest Irving's jumper, although I agree he still got a decent look at the basket. Still it's a long pull up. But I think you're being blinded here as a fan and don't want to admit this was not an optimal decision.
As for Blatt worrying, I can tell you for sure he wisl be worried about it if this becomes a habit and Love is not happy with the amount of shots he's getting, especially in situations like this one where he was in a much better position. Also as I said, they will be facing much better defenses when the playoff comes and you want for your players to become a habit to look for the best possible shot.

[RedBlackAttack]

Steph Curry, John Wall, CP3, these guys are all snipers, but if Klay/Beal/Redick is open they will find them EVERY time. That's how a PG is supposed to play :confusedshrug:


The thing is Kyrie has a history of this type of play. Which was no problem at all and could even be enjoyable to watch last year when the Cavs had no expectations and Kyrie could indulge in all the heroics he wanted. Sure, it's preseason, it's not just that this play exposed Kyrie's (lack of) vision, but Love was actively calling for the ball and Kyrie ignored him. We already know he had problems sharing with Waiters last year, regardless of if Waiters was the instigator.
John Wall is hardly a "sniper," fwiw. Defenses will give him jumpshots all game long if he wants them. He improved his three-point shooting last season, but his midrange game is still sorely lacking.

That play had nothing to do with "vision." I'm certain he saw Love on the wing. He had an open jumper from straight-away at about 18-feet. That's an easy shot for him and he'll make it more times than not.

I'm sure there's a play out there that better illustrates the point you're trying to make. I don't think this one does it.

[RedBlackAttack]

You're taking Kyrie's shot out of context. If this was the only option available to him, then I'd call it a good read out of a pick and roll. But he had a much better option to choose. All he had to do was take another hard dribble to suck in the defense and Love would've had enough time to eat a hamburger before he made that shot. And the defender actually recovered to contest Irving's jumper, although I agree he still got a decent look at the basket. Still it's a long pull up. But I think you're being blinded here as a fan and don't want to admit this was not an optimal decision.
As for Blatt worrying, I can tell you for sure he wisl be worried about it if this becomes a habit and Love is not happy with the amount of shots he's getting, especially in situations like this one where he was in a much better position. Also as I said, they will be facing much better defenses when the playoff comes and you want for your players to become a habit to look for the best possible shot.
No, I actually think it's everyone else taking this shot out of context. It was a nothing play. Certainly not worthy of this much discussion and dissection.

And, if Love is worried about the number of shots he's getting, he came to the wrong place. That should be the last thing on his mind, quite frankly.

[iznogood]

No, I actually think it's everyone else taking this shot out of context. It was a nothing play. Certainly not worthy of this much discussion and dissection.

And, if Love is worried about the number of shots he's getting, he came to the wrong place. That should be the last thing on his mind, quite frankly.
How is this taken out of context? I've seen plays like that from Kyrie numerous times. It creates a pattern and it hurts his team. Same goes for Love or any other player expecting the ball when in a clearly better position to score. They are all trying to win, is there a better way to do that than to take the best shots available.

[RidonKs]

u got a good point rba, the jumper looks more contested than it really is due to the camera angle. it was a beautiful crossover dribble and pullup by kyrie that shook brooks out of his shoes. the right play was still to get it to love early since noah was out of position... but its not like kyrie was taking on multiple defenders at once or anything. and as has been mentioned, that was right in the middle of him going bonkers and knocking down everything.

so... yea. i change my mind haha

[ballinhun8]

Kyrie should've passed it but I think he knew it was just his quarter to shoot. So he shot. He didn't even look at Love. Not the PG thing to do but he's the new age PG like Rose, Westbrook, Curry that will probably have more confidence in his shot rather then his pass.

[RedBlackAttack]

u got a good point rba, the jumper looks more contested than it really is due to the camera angle. it was a beautiful crossover dribble and pullup by kyrie that shook brooks out of his shoes. the right play was still to get it to love early since noah was out of position... but its not like kyrie was taking on multiple defenders at once or anything. and as has been mentioned, that was right in the middle of him going bonkers and knocking down everything.

so... yea. i change my mind haha
There was nothing "highly contested" about that shot. :oldlol:

I don't understand what people are looking at. Yeah, maybe it's the camera angle. If they switched to the camera under the basket, people would see just how easily he got into his rhythm, collected and launched before a defender was even in the frame.

Guess what else? Kyrie taking and making that shot is going to make things that much harder on defenses. Gasol/Noah made a calculated decision to drop off of the screen and not challenge, leaving the original defender to attempt an impossible recovery. If he's making that shot consistently -- which he will -- that interior defender is going to have to start stepping out... which means more openings and mismatches all over the floor.

This whole conversation is kind of silly. Lord knows I'm not saying Kyrie has never taken a bad shot in his life. And, he makes a good number of his bad shots, but they're still bad.

This wasn't a bad shot. Not even close to one. I don't care that Love was calling for the ball. That was an easy shot for Irving and Love will eventually get used to the idea that he's playing with a really good shooter at the point. They're all still getting acclimated with one another.

[Kblaze8855]

Its not some player defining play the way its being made out to be...but you hate to see your second best player and a 25ppg bigman visibly upset when his pointguard doesnt even look his way as hes wide open with the arm cocked....

Being a shot Kyrie can make or not...that isnt how you want to establish how you play to the new guy.

[ArbitraryWater]

Sounds like you really know your stuff when it comes to Kyrie's game, which is interesting since I've seen so little of you in Cavs game threads over the last three years. To have that kind of firm stance must've come from an incredible amount of research.

Really not that hard to figure out... Watched a decent amount of Cavs games, like with any other team... I'm sorry if you love him so much, but thats fact.

Kyrie is the prototypical style over substance player...He wasn't more effective than an Isaiah Thomas last TWO years, BUT HE MADE A SICK CROSSOVER AT THE ALL-STAR GAME DOE!!

[BigMacAttack]

People are overreacting a bit here based off that 1 play in the preseason but the fact is Kyrie looks to score first and thats not what you want playing PG with LBJ and Love. Now he might just be that way because off playing with scrubbs in his career so far and just needs time to adjust, comes down to his attitude and the type of coaching/leadership he gets imo because he is talented enough, though that D needs some work.

[oarabbus]

Its not some player defining play the way its being made out to be...but you hate to see your second best player and a 25ppg bigman visibly upset when his pointguard doesnt even look his way as hes wide open with the arm cocked....

Being a shot Kyrie can make or not...that isnt how you want to establish how you play to the new guy.

This is the eloquent way to make the point I had. This x100.

If you are a PG you should ALWAYS look to get your bigs going IMO.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is the eloquent way to make the point I had. This x100.

If you are a PG you should ALWAYS look to get your bigs going IMO.
If people had tempered their comments this way for the first five pages, I wouldn't have felt the need to enter the thread and point out the obviousness of what actually happened in the play. That's not what happened here, though. People were acting as though this shot had some incredibly high degree of difficulty and that it was highly contested.

Neither of those things were remotely accurate. Furthermore, this seems to be a conversation that people really want to have despite what actually happened in the play, so I say go for it. Kyrie had a couple of options on that play. For him, that was a very easy midrange pullup J. He also could have dished it to Love for a wing three, an area where he shot 36.8% last season.

He decided to shoot. If it really bothered Kevin Love, he's going to be the problem not Kyrie Irving. Like I said, Kyrie needs to get accustomed to playing with Love and Love needs to get accustomed to playing with Irving. He'll find out as we go that this is a very high percentage shot for Kyrie. I wasn't joking when I said that he may just be used to playing with a PG who can't shoot. He's played with that kind of guard for the last three years.

[iznogood]

When you're stating Kevin Love's percentage you're forgetting he was rarely getting open looks since he was the first option of his team and very well guarded most of the time. That would suggest his percentage of shots like this is considerably higher and also a better shot then semi-contested (or even uncontested) Irving pull up jumper from 2 feet closer.

As for suggesting Love needs to get used to play with a guard that can actually shoot is stupid. There are other guards in the league that can score on the level Kyrie does yet they feed their teammates in a situations like these. Curry will always pass it to Thompson (or vice versa) when he's alone like this even though Curry's considered the first option of the team. Same goes for Dragic who would never miss Frye on that kind of play. Same goes for Nash who is an excellent shooter himself.
There's a difference between making a play when everybody is being guarded and making a play when somebody else is open calling for the ball, this is the fact that you are ignoring. Had anybody been standing at least near Kevin Love nobody would the problem with Kyrie's play.

[Hoopz2332]

kyrie still isn't finding the open man:coleman:

[RedBlackAttack]

When you're stating Kevin Love's percentage you're forgetting he was rarely getting open looks since he was the first option of his team and very well guarded most of the time. That would suggest his percentage of shots like this is considerably higher and also a better shot then semi-contested (or even uncontested) Irving pull up jumper from 2 feet closer.

As for suggesting Love needs to get used to play with a guard that can actually shoot is stupid. There are other guards in the league that can score on the level Kyrie does yet they feed their teammates in a situations like these. Curry will always pass it to Thompson (or vice versa) when he's alone like this even though Curry's considered the first option of the team. Same goes for Dragic who would never miss Frye on that kind of play. Same goes for Nash who is an excellent shooter himself.
There's a difference between making a play when everybody is being guarded and making a play when somebody else is open calling for the ball, this is the fact that you are ignoring. Had anybody been standing at least near Kevin Love nobody would the problem with Kyrie's play.
There's also a difference between a guy with multiple options on a set play choosing one (that was both open and ultimately successful) and making that leap to saying he is an unwilling passer.

It isn't "stupid" to suggest Love needs to adapt his game to playing with Irving and vice versa. Of course he needs to adapt, unless -- like I said earlier -- you're just totally neutering Irivng's scoring ability and turning him into Mario Chalmers. Irving has a ton of scoring talent, as a long-range shooter, a midrange shooter and a slasher. He will and should get looks both designed for him and occasionally improvised. Love has never played with a PG like that. It will take some time for both of them.

And, the fact that you're ignoring is that BOTH guys had open looks. Kyrie's was closer and Love's was worth more points. Either option was a good one. The next time, maybe he dishes it. If it is within the system (this was), an open shot (it was) and successful (it was), the complaining is really more about overriding issues people have or perceive, not based on the play itself.


As for other guards, yes, I'm sure Kyrie could learn some things from the veterans since he's just 22, but let's not pretend as if guys like Steph Curry don't take some horrible shots that go in, but are still horrible shots. I've seen him pull up from 25-30 feet early in the shot clock. Pretty sure that's not necessarily the best basketball play if you're going by the book, but when you're a talented scorer, you can take some liberties.

On this team, Kevin Love is absolutely not going to get the ball every time he calls for it or every time he has an open look. There are just too many options and he's not always going to be the primary one. Other nights, I'm sure they'll be feeding him like crazy.

It's important to point out that Kyrie was in the process of totally taking that game over and Love was 0-for-4 from three. Again, I would have been fine if Kyrie dished it to try to get him going, but that was a very easy shot for Irving as well. There was no wrong answer.

[VeeCee15]

Kyrie had like 3 assists this game? He ain't a PG

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie had like 3 assists this game? He ain't a PG
Whatever he is, he's good. 24 minutes, 16 points (7-11 shooting), 3 assists.

[BlazerRed]

Quite blasphemous play to say the least.

Lebron is option 1 and playmaker
Love is the OBVIOUS option #2 and a better playmaker than kyrie

I really dont know what the role of kyrie is on this team? To add some AND1 flavor to their style? He can break down his man..but i'd rather have lebron drive. He spends more effort playing "fake" defense than defense. I'd rather have lebron or Love shoot than Kyrie. Kyrie isn't gonna play in the post.

Basically, kyrie doesn't have much of a purpose on this team if he can't pass. You want the ball in lebron's hands most of the time anyway, or kevin love who can pass and has high bball iq.

I dont think kyrie is tradeable...so lets hope for a career ending injury.
Holy shit I haven't laughed so hard on ISH for a while :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[Hoopz2332]

Whatever he is, he's good. 24 minutes, 16 points (7-11 shooting), 3 assists.


small SG...I think even Mo Williams was a better passer than Kyrie:biggums:

[edrick]

If that shit continues Lebron and Love will start bitching at him like he's Chalmers.

[Purch]

If people had tempered their comments this way for the first five pages, I wouldn't have felt the need to enter the thread and point out the obviousness of what actually happened in the play. That's not what happened here, though. People were acting as though this shot had some incredibly high degree of difficulty and that it was highly contested.

Neither of those things were remotely accurate. Furthermore, this seems to be a conversation that people really want to have despite what actually happened in the play, so I say go for it. Kyrie had a couple of options on that play. For him, that was a very easy midrange pullup J. He also could have dished it to Love for a wing three, an area where he shot 36.8% last season.

He decided to shoot. If it really bothered Kevin Love, he's going to be the problem not Kyrie Irving. Like I said, Kyrie needs to get accustomed to playing with Love and Love needs to get accustomed to playing with Irving. He'll find out as we go that this is a very high percentage shot for Kyrie. I wasn't joking when I said that he may just be used to playing with a PG who can't shoot. He's played with that kind of guard for the last three years.

My problem is.... Not about the shots difficulty. I've seen Tony Parker have that same space for a mid range jumper on numerous occasions, but if there's a wide open three point shooter in the spot Love was in 90% of the time he swings the ball. Parker's a great mid range shooter, but you're giving up a good shot for an even better shot (completley wide open, ready to catch and shoot). The reason the Spurs offense is so good , is because they're willing to sacrifice good shots for great shots

[DukeDelonte13]

small SG...I think even Mo Williams was a better passer than Kyrie:biggums:


Kyrie IMO really is an SG in a PG's body. He can pass, but it's not one of his strengths. He needs to be broken of some habits and this particular play is not indicative of how he has been playing this summer and preseason. He has been moving the ball a lot more, he stepped up last season in that department, he wasn't great at it but it was an improvement over his first two years. I don't think it's going to be much of an issue this year with Lebron barking at him rather than MB telling him.

[Dro]

My problem is.... Not about the shots difficulty. I've seen Tony Parker have that same space for a mid range jumper on numerous occasions, but if there's a wide open three point shooter in the spot Love was in 90% of the time he swings the ball. Parker's a great mid range shooter, but you're giving up a good shot for an even better shot (completley wide open, ready to catch and shoot). The reason the Spurs offense is so good , is because they're willing to sacrifice good shots for great shots
This right here........

[lilteapot]

wasn't love shooting poorly in this game?

[Dro]

wasn't love shooting poorly in this game?
He was 0-4 but the main point is that your team's starting PG should be trying to incorporate your new star 3 point shooting big man into the game. The fact that Love was 0-4 from 3 up to that point is even more reason that Kyrie should have tried to get him a nice open look like that one....But folks said that Kyrie was hot so I'll give him a slight pass......

[RedBlackAttack]

If that shit continues Lebron and Love will start bitching at him like he's Chalmers.
Hey Kyrie, you need to stop taking 11 shots even though you're making 60+% of them. Start playing more like Mario Chalmers for the love of god.

[Sarcastic]

Kyrie had like 3 assists this game? He ain't a PG


I've said for a long time that the greatest comparison for him is Gilbert Arenas.

[pegasus]

Kyrie is too talented to take a backseat to anyone. He will be their primary ball handler and first option. Deal with it.

[FatComputerNerd]

This is getting ridiculous.

Kyrie had 7 assists in the game that launched this thread.

[FatComputerNerd]

I've said for a long time that the greatest comparison for him is Gilbert Arenas.

More like a taller Allen Iverson but with the shooting skill to rival Curry.

[Dro]

More like a taller Allen Iverson but with the shooting skill to rival Curry.
:biggums:

The only ones who rival Curry's shooting skill is his teammate and probably Dirk.....Love is not far off though...Just my opinion...

[Hoopz2332]

Kyrie is too talented to take a backseat to anyone. He will be their primary ball handler and first option. Deal with it.


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view8/4534311/lebron-laughing-o.gif

[FatComputerNerd]

:biggums:

The only ones who rival Curry's shooting skill is his teammate and probably Dirk.....Love is not far off though...Just my opinion...

Kyrie's jumper is wet. He's a pure shooter like Curry, or like Nash, Price, Kerr, and other guys from the past.

He also has the sickest handles in the league, and IS a willing passer.

This thread should be locked for ridiculousness.

[andgar923]

Price>>> Kyrie

[FatComputerNerd]

Price>>> Kyrie

Price was Priceless

[Sarcastic]

More like a taller Allen Iverson but with the shooting skill to rival Curry.


So Gilbert Arenas.

[Dro]

Hey Kyrie, you need to stop taking 11 shots even though you're making 60+% of them. Start playing more like Mario Chalmers for the love of god.
I still think this is beside the point. Kyrie could be as efficient as ever or score many points but that's still not his primary job, IMO. I think Kyrie is a very good player and I like his game, just not sure if his style is the right fit for this team as its constructed...

[Dro]

Kyrie's jumper is wet. He's a pure shooter like Curry, or like Nash, Price, Kerr, and other guys from the past.

He also has the sickest handles in the league, and IS a willing passer.

This thread should be locked for ridiculousness.
You've got Cavs fans on their own message boards who are saying the same things some of us are saying about him...Its not ridiculous at all to suggest that Kyrie is a shoot first PG. He may be a willing passer(I'm not enough of a Cavs fan to know) but you guys say he is so I'll take your word for it. But he is a gifted scorer, it remains to be seen if he is a good fit with this team...

[DukeDelonte13]

I still think this is beside the point. Kyrie could be as efficient as ever or score many points but that's still not his primary job, IMO. I think Kyrie is a very good player and I like his game, just not sure if his style is the right fit for this team as its constructed...


Kyrie can drain open shots and can dribble penetrate as well as any guard in the league. He is a good passer, but he's just not a pass first guy. He's still young and he's still developing his PG skills. He's not close to his peak.

[RedBlackAttack]

You've got Cavs fans on their own message boards who are saying the same things some of us are saying about him...Its not ridiculous at all to suggest that Kyrie is a shoot first PG. He may be a willing passer(I'm not enough of a Cavs fan to know) but you guys say he is so I'll take your word for it. But he is a gifted scorer, it remains to be seen if he is a good fit with this team...
Or, it remains to be seen how the new acquisitions work with Kyrie. That's the point I've been making. This should be a give and take, not just taking all of Kyrie's best traits away to force him into a role he's uncomfortable with. Kyrie is 22 years old and one of the best young players in the league. Part of his "fit" is that when LBJ is 35, Kyrie will be 27 and in his absolute prime. Basketball will exist beyond LeBron James and even Kevin Love. Kyrie was the youngest starting PG in the whole league this time last season. He's younger than Shabazz Napier and MCW. We don't really know what Kyrie's game will look like when he is in his prime.

On top of that, he's been playing with Love and LeBron and all of these other guys for about a month and people are already dissecting relatively benign plays as if they're the ultimate sign of friction and in fighting. I watched the game last night... Love and Kyrie looked pleased to be sharing the court together. I saw no indication of problems.

That isn't to say Kyrie should play exactly the way he did last year or the year before. He has always been the focus of the Cavs' offensive gameplan and the focus of the opposing defenses. Both of those dynamics have clearly changed. But, that doesn't mean it's all on him to adapt his game and Love, LeBron and everyone else should play exactly the way they did on their respective teams. This is a totally different situation for everyone and it is going to take a little time to get everyone on the same page.

It seems to me that people are really eager to tear into Kyrie every time there's a small bump in the road and even sometimes when there's not.

[Purch]

My problem is.... Not about the shots difficulty. I've seen Tony Parker have that same space for a mid range jumper on numerous occasions, but if there's a wide open three point shooter in the spot Love was in 90% of the time he swings the ball. Parker's a great mid range shooter, but you're giving up a good shot for an even better shot (completley wide open, ready to catch and shoot). The reason the Spurs offense is so good , is because they're willing to sacrifice good shots for great shots


Also, I'd like to add that it's not about whether it was a point guard like Rubio vs Kyrie, either way 1 more pass would lead the a better shot

[Paul George 24]

Kyrie's jumper is wet. He's a pure shooter like Curry, or like Nash, Price, Kerr, and other guys from the past.

He also has the sickest handles in the league, and IS a willing passer.

This thread should be locked for ridiculousness.

kyrie is a worse defender than calderon :lol

[Dro]

Or, it remains to be seen how the new acquisitions work with Kyrie. That's the point I've been making. This should be a give and take, not just taking all of Kyrie's best traits away to force him into a role he's uncomfortable with. Kyrie is 22 years old and one of the best young players in the league. Part of his "fit" is that when LBJ is 35, Kyrie will be 27 and in his absolute prime. Basketball will exist beyond LeBron James and even Kevin Love. Kyrie was the youngest starting PG in the whole league this time last season. He's younger than Shabazz Napier and MCW. We don't really know what Kyrie's game will look like when he is in his prime.

On top of that, he's been playing with Love and LeBron and all of these other guys for about a month and people are already dissecting relatively benign plays as if they're the ultimate sign of friction and in fighting. I watched the game last night... Love and Kyrie looked pleased to be sharing the court together. I saw no indication of problems.

That isn't to say Kyrie should play exactly the way he did last year or the year before. He has always been the focus of the Cavs' offensive gameplan and the focus of the opposing defenses. Both of those dynamics have clearly changed. But, that doesn't mean it's all on him to adapt his game and Love, LeBron and everyone else should play exactly the way they did on their respective teams. This is a totally different situation for everyone and it is going to take a little time to get everyone on the same page.

It seems to me that people are really eager to tear into Kyrie every time there's a small bump in the road and even sometimes when there's not.
Good post. If they do get it together, they are easily the favorites to come out of the East......

[RedBlackAttack]

Good post. If they do get it together, they are easily the favorites to come out of the East......
When you get down to it, you can probably understand how this whole thing is incredibly annoying for actual Cavs fans. We've spent the past two years trying to build our future around Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson (to a lesser extent). Now, all of a sudden, LeBron and Love join the team and they bring with them these hoards of fans who've probably not watched the team play a single time in the last three years, but they're ready to throw everyone who was here prior right under the bus at the soonest possible opportunity. It's easy to forget that the first domino to fall this past summer was Kyrie Irving signing the max contract extension. Now, he's being totally taken for granted. The guy was arguably the best player in the World Cup tournament a couple months ago. He can play and he's freaking 22 years old.

We're all hoping that this thing works out seamlessly, but logic tells me there will probably be a few bumps in the road on the way to building a title contender. It looks like Kyrie has been the designated scapegoat for player fans to blame when those bumps inevitably show themselves.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont think many want Kyrie to turn into a spot up shooter. But I cant think of any point in all history...who wouldnt defer heavily to teammates the likes of which he has...

That id want on my team.

There are guys who wouldnt....just not guys you expect to ever see holding a trophy.

Guys like Isiah Thomas could score 25 a game...hes out there passing up shots all night to get James edwards and past his prime Aguirre going.

Isiah is who he needs to pattern himself after. Dont stop being who you are...just learn when to call on it.

[Hoopz2332]

Kyrie needs to study Tony parker

[secund2nun]

Kyrie should be traded for a center preferably Drummond.

[navy]

Kyrie should be traded for a center preferably Drummond.
Not a good enough defender.

[navy]

lol at over reacting to the preseason doe

[Pointguard]

I don't really think its a great mix as it was made out to be. Wade and Lebron had the same strengths but Wade had to sacrifice big time to make it work. Had Lebron went in the post things probably could have been different. But he didn't and now he's lost weight. For selfish reasons I love Kyrie's game - he's one of the most exciting players to watch and he's going to have to tone it down for his team to win - Wade is my example. Lebron is taking the excitement out of the game one player at a time. But it will be fun to see what type of player Lebron will morph into this year.

I don't think they are going to win it all next year anyway being that two of the key players have never been to the playoffs. Will be interesting to see how Kyrie responds to pressure. He was crazy clutch two years ago but a full year of pressure is a different animal. Lebron lost his edge in the three peat - he just didn't have another gear when SA said "we owe you one." Its a long path and it works on certain players.

Unlike the last big three, this group is more demanding on its individual pieces. Meaning I would watch games and Wade and Bosh could be very, very quiet.

[ILLsmak]

Thing is, that's not a difficult shot at all for him. Those who've watched him for his first three years in the league know that. A midrange shot from straight away in rhythm is one of his most reliable weapons. And, people are talking about it being "highly contested." That shot was just barely contested and that result will happen more than half the time if he gets that shot that easily.

You'll realize this the more you watch him. If Gasol had stepped out on the screen? Different story. He didn't and the result was a pretty wide open look.

yeah it wasn't contested. A contested shot is one that the shooter has to change. That's like a go to move with someone jumping at the end. This isn't NBA 2k.

-Smak

[El Gato Negro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlNG2ibrNwo

[oarabbus]

Kyrie should be traded for a center preferably Drummond.

The only bigs on the level of Kyrie (in terms of trade value) are guys like Blake Griffin, DeMarcus Cousins, Marc Gasol, and a few others. They can get way more than just Drummond for Kyrie.