why do people praise recoverd drug addicts

[NZStreetBaller]

More then they praise people who never touched it in the first place. I mean yeah it takes alot of will power to quit drugs but it takes will power to say no to drugs sometimes. Especially when people are trying to peer pressure you

[tomtucker]

exactly.......:applause: ..................fukk those dirty junkies

[MadeFromDust]

Because they are much more vulnerable to relapse than a clean person is to delve into it for the first time.

[BigBoss]

Pretty sure people who don't touch drugs get praised exponentially more.

[Budadiiii]

It's a self-inflicted illness, but still an illness nonetheless.

Here's a medal for staying off drugs you boring sap, I see you desperately need the attention from your peers, you wannabe drug addict

Go do some heroin for a couple of months, to the point where everyone in your life is worried sick about you, and then get off the heroin so you can get that praise you so desperately crave from your mom and your two friends.


NZStreetBaller :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Budadiiii]

Pretty sure people who don't touch drugs get praised exponentially more.
How about guys who can't even get off cigarettes? :oldlol:

[MadeFromDust]

How about guys who can't even get off cigarettes? :oldlol:
Same shiite, different drug

[ace23]

Because it takes a lot more willpower to quit than it does to not try in the first place in most cases.

[BigBoss]

How about guys who can't even get off cigarettes? :oldlol:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2913229/chairshot-stomach-o.gif

[NZStreetBaller]

It's a self-inflicted illness, but still an illness nonetheless.

Here's a medal for staying off drugs you boring sap, I see you desperately need the attention from your peers, you wannabe drug addict

Go do some heroin for a couple of months, to the point where everyone in your life is worried sick about you, and then get off the heroin so you can get that praise you so desperately crave from your mom and your two friends.


NZStreetBaller :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I smoke ciggarettes and weed for 6 years and stopped when I had a kid .... u really think I wouldve made this thread had I not known what it was like to be addicted. I knew wat addiction was which is why Iwas never dumb enough to touch the worse more expensive drugs.

So keep bowing down you drugged up ***....

[Done_And_Done]

People who suffer from addictions are often plagued a number of secondary social obstacles that have either worsened their situation or is the root cause for its formulation. There is also a divergent compound in the brain which makes it more difficult for addicts to fend off the substance(s) they abuse. It's very similar to a disease.

As one who has study and worked in the addictions field, I can posit that those who gave recovered definitely deserve praise. Sobriety is not an easy thing to achieve for some.

If you wanna praise yourself for having the will power to say no or overcome your struggles in a more productive manner than go right ahead though...

[Budadiiii]

I smoke ciggarettes and weed for 6 years and stopped when I had a kid .... u really think I wouldve made this thread had I not known what it was like to be addicted. I knew wat addiction was which is why Iwas never dumb enough to touch the worse more expensive drugs.

So keep bowing down you drugged up ***....
Weed and cigarettes eh?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Hardcore addictions right there.

[Done_And_Done]

Ps - People with addiction plights are far from being dumb. I've worked with individuals who run multi-million dollar corporations, scientists, professors, you name it... Etc

Some of the most brilliant people I've ever met have actually been addicted to something. There's a fine difference between being dumb and making unhealthy life decisions. Everyone has a story to tell. Who are we to judge them?

[Dresta]

Because it takes a lot more willpower to quit than it does to not try in the first place in most cases.
Far more.

Withdrawal can be intense physical and mental torment. It's really is the kind of thing that makes you feel like running headfirst off the balcony. Following the herd, and never trying something because it's what you've been told to do, on the other hand, is just as easy as following any other inane societal prescription without having any understanding or experience relating to it.

[NZStreetBaller]

Ps - People with addiction plights are far from being dumb. I've worked with individuals who run millionaire dollar corporations, scientists, professors, you name it... Etc

Some of the most brilliant people I've ever met have actually been addicted to something. There's a fine difference between being dumb and making unhealthy life decisions. Everyone has a story to tell. Who are we to judge them?

Well no I got nothing against druggies or non druggues its your decision in the end. And you'll deal with the consequences but its the way people act like they are so brave and awesome when they quit. But those who dont do anything get called boring and get told they havent live d or something

[Done_And_Done]

Because they are awesome when they quit and there's been numerous explanations posted in this thread to support why.

But what are you expecting society to give you or any person who hasn't gone down that dark path? Do you feel you're not getting your proper shake or something? You shouldn't have to be applauded because you posses the will power or favorable life circumstance/bodily composition to avoid being an addict.

[Jailblazers7]

Addiction is hard is support and positive reinforcement from the people around you is helpful during/after recovery. Not that hard to figure out. It is about being part of a support system not giving out gold stars.

[DukeDelonte13]

I smoke ciggarettes and weed for 6 years and stopped when I had a kid .... u really think I wouldve made this thread had I not known what it was like to be addicted. I knew wat addiction was which is why Iwas never dumb enough to touch the worse more expensive drugs.

So keep bowing down you drugged up ***....


reminds of that scene with Bob Saget in half baked.

[~primetime~]

they AREN'T praised by the general public...only praised by other addicts and loved ones


That is the entire reason that AA is a "secret cult"...because the public stigma of someone in AA (or NA) is a negative one, they are looked down on as someone who is less. I know AA members that don't even call it "AA"...they will call it "the gathering"..."the following"...something of that nature.

People would be shocked if all of the names in AA (and NA) were released...it would be a list full of every type of human, from high paid CEOs to bums on the street. There are LOTS of rich successful men and women in AA and they attend knowing that them being there is a secret to the public. All ages, all races, all salary types...addiction does not discriminate.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I can't remember who the comedian is, but they said they think people who are able to drink or do drugs in moderation while being a functioning member of the society are worthy of praise far more than recovering addicts or straight edge people

[~primetime~]

I can't remember who the comedian is, but they said they think people who are able to drink or do drugs in moderation while being a functioning member of the society are worthy of praise far more than recovering addicts or straight edge people
for alcoholics it's basically just all brain chemistry for the majority (not all but most)...some people can have a drink and they just don't even want another, some people have a drink and then go into "you'll have to kill me to stop me from having another drink" mode.

To me that is the one single thing defines an alcoholic most...a human that is incapable of just having one drink.

[GimmeThat]

More then they praise people who never touched it in the first place. I mean yeah it takes alot of will power to quit drugs but it takes will power to say no to drugs sometimes. Especially when people are trying to peer pressure you

same reason why some forget to tell others "I love you"

[GimmeThat]

I can't remember who the comedian is, but they said they think people who are able to drink or do drugs in moderation while being a functioning member of the society are worthy of praise far more than recovering addicts or straight edge people


there are those who believe the masses are better under the influence than trying to influence

[AlphaWolf24]

for alcoholics it's basically just all brain chemistry for the majority (not all but most)...some people can have a drink and they just don't even want another, some people have a drink and then go into "you'll have to kill me to stop me from having another drink" mode.

To me that is the one single thing defines an alcoholic most...a human that is incapable of just having one drink.


true.....

and it could be also said for every person and every person's affliction since the dawn of mankind.


The obese person doing harm to their body because they can't stop eating.

The obsessed video gamer who can't stop playing Video games/never sleeps

The alcoholic that drinks for 20 years destroying their liver

The smoker who smokes for 20 years and destroys their lungs..

The gambler who can't stop gambling

The speed freak who can't stop speeding

The hard core drug addict who can't stop hard drugs

The prescription drug addict who needs prescriptions


all these are the same.....Everything effects our brains ( chemically ) , at some point it's up to you to change yourself......if not......then what?

[~primetime~]

true.....

and it could be also said for every person and every person's affliction since the dawn of mankind.


The obese person doing harm to their body because they can't stop eating.

The obsessed video gamer who can't stop playing Video games/never sleeps

The alcoholic that drinks for 20 years destroying their liver

The smoker who smokes for 20 years and destroys their lungs..

The gambler who can't stop gambling

The speed freak who can't stop speeding

The hard core drug addict who can't stop hard drugs

The prescription drug addict who needs prescriptions


all these are the same.....Everything effects our brains ( chemically ) , at some point it's up to you to change yourself......if not......then what?
yes true...I would guess that is correct with most of these, but not all. being a "speed freak" probably has little to do with brain chemistry.

I guess what I was getting at is that with alcohol in particular there is a innate born link to DNA that dictates how bad you want that next drink (for most). These other addictions you listed are mostly acquired. Alcoholism can be linked in family trees...these others can't (to my knowledge)

[Dresta]

primetime, that's all a consequence of brain chemistry and how it reacts to external stimuli.

The way you are talking about alcoholism is still terribly reductionist. (please don't post a trite scientific study as if any study has proved any of the things you are asserting, because they haven't - you thinking they have is just a consequence of your being credulous enough to buy into what is plain and simple scientism)

Most academic publications (scientific or otherwise) are simply low-level academics publishing basic correlations and using language to play them off as new knowledge (possible causation!) because they need to publish something to keep their jobs. 95% of it is of little to no value.

[GimmeThat]

yes true...I would guess that is correct with most of these, but not all. being a "speed freak" probably has little to do with brain chemistry.

I guess what I was getting at is that with alcohol in particular there is a innate born link to DNA that dictates how bad you want that next drink (for most). These other addictions you listed are mostly acquired. Alcoholism can be linked in family trees...these others can't (to my knowledge)


so it is safe to conclude there are those who naturally rejects alcohol because of their DNA?

[~primetime~]

so it is safe to conclude there are those who naturally rejects alcohol because of their DNA?
yes, some humans have one drink and there is absolutely no urge for another...while others have one drink and all they can think about is another drink. Each was born with different brain chemistry.

And I suppose you can say that about many addictions, like Alpha did...however with alcohol in particular it is something given at birth and not acquired. Like tobacco for example, tobacco addicts all get there by smoking lots of cigarettes and there aren't many smokers who "just have one" every week or so.

I am sure there are other addictions that have DNA links as well...but alcoholism is very buried in DNA roots. I read some study that had it as high as 80%, the other 20% got there from other things like PTSD, severe depression, etc etc

[tpols]

yes, some humans have one drink and there is absolutely no urge for another...while others have one drink and all they can think about is another drink. Each was born with different brain chemistry.

And I suppose you can say that about many addictions, like Alpha did...however with alcohol in particular it is something given at birth and not acquired. Like tobacco for example, tobacco addicts all get there by smoking lots of cigarettes and there aren't many smokers who "just have one" every week or so.

I am sure there are other addictions that have DNA links as well...but alcoholism is very buried in DNA roots. I read some study that had it as high as 80%, the other 20% got there from other things like PTSD, severe depression, etc etc

Addictions addiction man.. You're just giving yourself an excuse for why your particular vice wasn't your fault.

Like an obese person saying 'but it's genetics!' Yea.. In maybe 1 or 2% of cases.. In the large majority it was external circumstances.. Friends you were around.. If you watched family members drink a lot when you're young.. If you have hopeless dilemmas that lead you to want to escape reality.. There's a million reasons it can occur.

[~primetime~]

Not trying to make any excuses for alcoholism at all here

having that first drink is a CHOICE, and anyone that is drunk got there from their own decisions and not because their DNA.

[Done_And_Done]

they AREN'T praised by the general public...only praised by other addicts and loved ones


That is the entire reason that AA is a "secret cult"...because the public stigma of someone in AA (or NA) is a negative one, they are looked down on as someone who is less. I know AA members that don't even call it "AA"...they will call it "the gathering"..."the following"...something of that nature.

People would be shocked if all of the names in AA (and NA) were released...it would be a list full of every type of human, from high paid CEOs to bums on the street. There are LOTS of rich successful men and women in AA and they attend knowing that them being there is a secret to the public. All ages, all races, all salary types...addiction does not discriminate.

One of the best posts in this entire thread. I invented that last line btw :)

[Dresta]

yes, some humans have one drink and there is absolutely no urge for another...while others have one drink and all they can think about is another drink. Each was born with different brain chemistry.

And I suppose you can say that about many addictions, like Alpha did...however with alcohol in particular it is something given at birth and not acquired. Like tobacco for example, tobacco addicts all get there by smoking lots of cigarettes and there aren't many smokers who "just have one" every week or so.

I am sure there are other addictions that have DNA links as well...but alcoholism is very buried in DNA roots. I read some study that had it as high as 80%, the other 20% got there from other things like PTSD, severe depression, etc etc
And there are thousands of minute gradations in-between those two extremes that we know very little about. When you are talking about the brain things are never black and white, and you need to accept that we are always working from a position of relative ignorance. Alcoholism is not special, and works through stimulating the same GABA receptor as benzos or barbituates. As i said, all addictions are buried in the 'root' of a person and controlled largely by their subconscious; again, alcoholism is not special in this regard.

Science is also highly politically driven, and that's the result of credulous study readers like you who buy everything that has the label of science on it. My girlfriend studied neuroscience, and i remember quite early on, they were told that research into empathy had shown we have a higher empathic response the more similar a person is to us, which could actually really help our basic understanding of things like racism, but of course, ANY inquiry into things related to race is completely taboo and therefore will never get any funding - therefore we won't look at it, says the lecturer (politics has decided it isn't important already).

[Derka]

Because it is insanely more difficult to quit the stuff once you're addicted than it is to not try to the stuff to begin with.

Also, people who never touch the stuff are absolutely praised plenty.

[GimmeThat]

yes, some humans have one drink and there is absolutely no urge for another...while others have one drink and all they can think about is another drink. Each was born with different brain chemistry.

And I suppose you can say that about many addictions, like Alpha did...however with alcohol in particular it is something given at birth and not acquired. Like tobacco for example, tobacco addicts all get there by smoking lots of cigarettes and there aren't many smokers who "just have one" every week or so.

I am sure there are other addictions that have DNA links as well...but alcoholism is very buried in DNA roots. I read some study that had it as high as 80%, the other 20% got there from other things like PTSD, severe depression, etc etc

so again, since alcoholism is buried in DNA roots.

can we even call it an addiction? or simply just genetically different than others.

I would like to think that an addiction may be something that one chooses to re-enforce over and over again, instead of having no power over so.


does addiction involve ones conscious choice, or is it simply subconscious?

since one may argue vaguely that our brain chemistry functions subconsciously



I guess we'd have to classify addicting behaviors/pattern and addicting substances

[Dresta]

so again, since alcoholism is buried in DNA roots.

can we even call it an addiction? or simply just genetically different than others.

I would like to think that an addiction may be something that one chooses to re-enforce over and over again, instead of having no power over so.


does addiction involve ones conscious choice, or is it simply subconscious?

since one may argue vaguely that our brain chemistry functions subconsciously



I guess we'd have to classify addicting behaviors/pattern and addicting substances
All your conscious decisions are made before you are aware of having made them.

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh my god... what a dumb ****ing question.

You're just trying to be controversial, right?

[~primetime~]

And there are thousands of minute gradations in-between those two extremes that we know very little about. When you are talking about the brain things are never black and white, and you need to accept that we are always working from a position of relative ignorance. Alcoholism is not special, and works through stimulating the same GABA receptor as benzos or barbituates. As i said, all addictions are buried in the 'root' of a person and controlled largely by their subconscious; again, alcoholism is not special in this regard.

Science is also highly politically driven, and that's the result of credulous study readers like you who buy everything that has the label of science on it. My girlfriend studied neuroscience, and i remember quite early on, they were told that research into empathy had shown we have a higher empathic response the more similar a person is to us, which could actually really help our basic understanding of things like racism, but of course, ANY inquiry into things related to race is completely taboo and therefore will never get any funding - therefore we won't look at it, says the lecturer (politics has decided it isn't important already).
You're contradicting yourself here. You start out by telling me we still know little about the brain, things aren't black and white, etc. Then you go on to make a very black and white statement of alcohol isn't special, all addictions work the same. But that isn't the case at all, we know different drugs effect the brain differently obviously.

Alcohol may function the same way as benzos, we know these two effect serotonin levels the same way, but alcohol does not function the same way as say tobacco, or video game addiction, etc. Its NOT that black and white, and different addictions can have different roots and can be spurred from different sources.

[Nowitness]

Seems like most people are so one sided.

They don't deserve mass praise. Just like people who do it don't deserve mass criticism.

[~primetime~]

so again, since alcoholism is buried in DNA roots.

can we even call it an addiction? or simply just genetically different than others.

I would like to think that an addiction may be something that one chooses to re-enforce over and over again, instead of having no power over so.


does addiction involve ones conscious choice, or is it simply subconscious?

since one may argue vaguely that our brain chemistry functions subconsciously



I guess we'd have to classify addicting behaviors/pattern and addicting substances
It's an addiction regardless of you were born addicted or not. A crack baby is an "addict"

[Dresta]

You're contradicting yourself here. You start out by telling me we still know little about the brain, things aren't black and white, etc. Then you go on to make a very black and white statement of alcohol isn't special, all addictions work the same. But that isn't the case at all, we know different drugs effect the brain differently obviously.

Alcohol may function the same way as benzos, we know these two effect serotonin levels the same way, but alcohol does not function the same way as say tobacco, or video game addiction, etc. Its NOT that black and white, and different addictions can have different roots and can be spurred from different sources.
You can make general statements like the one i made because they are logical, not because of any particular information we may or may not have. I never said all addictions are the same, just that your singling out of alcoholism as special is foolish. All addictive behaviour is rooted in various genetic traits in combination to how the brain, and particularly the unconscious, reacts to external stimuli. This can be asserted because it is logically congruous, not because we have detailed, specific and enlightening knowledge about the brain.

Nor is your definition of an alcoholic as someone who 'just can't have one drink' make any sense. Many people who can't just have one drink are not alcoholics, and plenty of people who are commonly viewed as alcoholics are capable of abstaining and sensible social drinking. This is you defining alcoholism under your own criteria.

These things work on a scale, like depression, like anxiety etc.: it is foolish and reductionist to divide the world into 'addict' and 'non-addict' because that isn't the way things work. There are individuals who struggle with substance abuse and there are those who do not, with a big grey area in-between. Plenty of addicts are high-functioning individuals, whereas plenty of non-addicts die of alcohol and drug abuse. Many people drink normally most of their lives, and then succumb to alcoholism as they get older etc.

In fact, statistically, the most common uniting factor in all mental illness is a predisposition for insomnia, which brings things like depression, anxiety, and substance abuse along with it.

[~primetime~]

You can make general statements like the one i made because they are logical, not because of any particular information we may or may not have. I never said all addictions are the same, just that your singling out of alcoholism as special is foolish. All addictive behaviour is rooted in various genetic traits in combination to how the brain, and particularly the unconscious, reacts to external stimuli. This can be asserted because it is logically congruous, not because we have detailed, specific and enlightening knowledge about the brain.

Nor is your definition of an alcoholic as someone who 'just can't have one drink' make any sense. Many people who can't just have one drink are not alcoholics, and plenty of people who are commonly viewed as alcoholics are capable of abstaining and sensible social drinking. This is you defining alcoholism under your own criteria.

These things work on a scale, like depression, like anxiety etc.: it is foolish and reductionist to divide the world into 'addict' and 'non-addict' because that isn't the way things work. There are individuals who struggle with substance abuse and there are those who do not, with a big grey area in-between. Plenty of addicts are high-functioning individuals, whereas plenty of non-addicts die of alcohol and drug abuse. Many people drink normally most of their lives, and then succumb to alcoholism as they get older etc.

In fact, statistically, the most common uniting factor in all mental illness is a predisposition for insomnia, which brings things like depression, anxiety, and substance abuse along with it.
No some addictions have little to nothing to do genetic traits and everything to do with the actual substance being addictive, like tobacco. To my knowledge there is no DNA linkage in tobacco addicts, unlike alcohol. They only got to where they are by smoking lots of cigarettes.

I also said that FOR ME the one thing that dictates alcoholism more than anything else is a human that is incapable of having just one drink. YES, that is my own criteria and I made that clear.

Honestly I'm not even sure what you're getting at anymore...if you're trying to declare that alcohol is just like everything else and that all addictions are equal in terms of genetic linkage? I'm going to say what you said to me, it's not that black and white.

[shlver]

No some addictions have little to nothing to do genetic traits and everything to do with the actual substance being addictive, like tobacco. To my knowledge there is no DNA linkage in tobacco addicts, unlike alcohol. They only got to where they are by smoking lots of cigarettes.

I also said that FOR ME the one thing that dictates alcoholism more than anything else is a human that is incapable of having just one drink. YES, that is my own criteria and I made that clear.

Honestly I'm not even sure what you're getting at anymore...if you're trying to declare that alcohol is just like everything else and that all addictions are equal in terms of genetic linkage? I'm going to say what you said to me, it's not that black and white.
Cite sources please.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/FamilyHistory/famhist.htm
[QUOTE]Many scientific studies, including research conducted among twins and children of alcoholics, have shown that genetic factors influence alcoholism. These findings show that children of alcoholics are about four times more likely than the general population to develop alcohol problems. Children of alcoholics also have a higher risk for many other behavioral and emotional problems. But alcoholism is not determined only by the genes you inherit from your parents. [B]In fact, more than one

[~primetime~]

Cite sources please.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/FamilyHistory/famhist.htm

Directly contradicts your idea that "80% of alcoholism is buried in DNA roots;" whatever that means.
that does NOT contradict it...it completely backs it up.

"half of all children of alcoholics do not become alcoholic"

so the other half DO??? that could EASILY be 80%+ of all alcoholics

[~primetime~]

These findings show that children of alcoholics are about four times more likely than the general population to develop alcohol problems.


^^^ did you even read what you posted ???

It completely backs up everything I am saying

many other addictions don't have "4x more likely if parents"...

[Myth]

More then they praise people who never touched it in the first place. I mean yeah it takes alot of will power to quit drugs but it takes will power to say no to drugs sometimes. Especially when people are trying to peer pressure you

Because they need the praise more than those who never touched it. A kid struggling in school also needs more support than those who are doing fine.

[shlver]

that does NOT contradict it...it completely backs it up.

"half of all children of alcoholics do not become alcoholic"

so the other half DO??? that could EASILY be 80%+ of all alcoholics
YES it does contradict it and your misunderstanding is because of your ignorance about genetics and heritability. The fact that more than half of the children do not get it suggests the SNP's linked with alcoholism are not dominant and/or environmental factors play a larger role than the linked SNP's.
And again, you haven't linked a study that supports your 80% number. You are horribly uneducated on so many subjects you speak so confidently on.

[shlver]

These findings show that children of alcoholics are about four times more likely than the general population to develop alcohol problems.


^^^ did you even read what you posted ???

It completely backs up everything I am saying

many other addictions don't have "4x more likely if parents"...
Despite this likelihood, it is a fact that more than half of the children do not develop alcoholism. This logically suggests that there is more to addiction than genetics.

[tpols]

that does NOT contradict it...it completely backs it up.

"half of all children of alcoholics do not become alcoholic"

so the other half DO??? that could EASILY be 80%+ of all alcoholics

that still doesnt prove your genetics argument at all.. the simple act of watching the two(or one) adults that raised you drink all the time could condition you to think that behavior is normal.. and of course there will be waaay more opportunity to get booze at a young age when your parents have it lying around the house all the time.

[~primetime~]

shlver, I know wtf I am talking about here...I've been entrenched in this shit for years now. Dresta asked me not to post scientific studies because they are all BS in his eyes:

FROM THE SITE YOU JUST POSTED:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm


Enviornment CAN play a role...it is not the dominate role

if 50%+ of all children with ONE alcoholic parent go one to be alcoholic that could make up ALL of them, why can't you understand that?

[iamgine]

If you fell off a steep cliff but managed to survive and climb back up, should people praise those who never fall off a cliff?

WTF OP. :biggums:

[~primetime~]

I mean there are ENDLESS studies linking alcoholism to genes, many genes have been identified even

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=alcoholism+genes+identify

just pick one

[shlver]

Still no reply to my posts contextualizing that statistic in the context of genetics/heritability. Probably because primetime doesn't understand it. Another waste of time on ish.

[~primetime~]

Still no reply to my posts contextualizing that statistic in the context of genetics/heritability. Probably because primetime doesn't understand it. Another waste of time on ish.
I've replied to that twice now, if 50% of all children with one alcoholic parent does go on to be an alcoholic, that group could potentially make up ALL alcoholics.

This is like the last time where it took me the pages to pound a simple point into your head while you're only intent is to troll and call me out.

[Smoke117]

Overcoming drug addiction is worthy of praise. It takes a lot to climb out of the rabbit hole.

[shlver]

I've replied to that twice now, if 50% of all children with one alcoholic parent does go on to be an alcoholic, that group could potentially make up ALL alcoholics.

This is like the last time where it took me the pages to pound a simple point into your head while you're only intent is to troll and call me out.
This is an assumption you haven't even proven. Assuming it is true, what is its implication on genetic inheretability of alcoholism?

Knowing primetimes very limited knowledge. I'l just write a post concerning addiction that deals with this. Dresta has covered most of it but I'll cover my expertise in biochemistry.

As primetime pointed out that there are shared SNP's in alcoholics called haplotypes.

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Alcoholism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-nucleotide_polymorphism

Now primetime, wrongly assumes, that because of similar mutations or change in gene expression found in alcoholics that these changes can be genetically inherited. But primetime, if he researched this topic, would find that many of these similar changes are responses in gene expression to the excess consumption of alchohol. In laymans terms, if people excessively consume alcohol, the cells in your body will change to process that extra alcohol similarly in most people. This coupled with the fact that more than half of the children of alcoholics do not become alcoholics suggests that genetic inheritability does not tell the whole story. We can argue percentages, but they aren't based in reality.

As Dresta and others have pointed out how a person is introduced to alcohol, how people around that person have acted while under the influence of alcohol, how a person is taught to use alcohol by his parents, peers, etc all play a role in how a person experiences alcohol throughout his or her life and whether or not it develops into addiction and alcoholism.

Last post to this thread, waste of time debating with primetime.

[~primetime~]

^^^ you're not reading my posts, I never said genetics was the "whole story"....I clearly said that things like environment/PTSD/depression/etc can also lead a person to alcoholism.

I am stating that unlike many other addictions it is predominately genetic...and if YOU actually researched this topic you would find there are tons of studies that back it up.

[~primetime~]

There are studies with twins proving genetic links IN THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED

the implications of genetics and alcoholism are easily found with a simple google search

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=alcoholism+linked+to+genetics

[~primetime~]

Whether a person decides to use alcohol or drugs is a choice, influenced by their environment--peers, family, and availability. But, once a person uses alcohol or drugs, the risk of developing alcoholism or drug dependence is largely influenced by genetics.

Research has shown conclusively that family history of alcoholism or drug addiction is in part genetic and not just the result of the family environment. And, millions of Americans are living proof, based on personal, firsthand experience, that alcoholism and drug addiction run in families.

Plain and simple, alcoholism and drug dependence run in families.
https://ncadd.org/for-parents-overview/family-history-and-genetics/226-family-history-and-genetics

^^^ a good article for you shvler, you should actually read it



environment mostly just dictates how often alcohol is thrown in front of someone, it does not dictate how their brain will react to it, that part is mostly genetic.


“Twin studies offer a chance to compare the influence of genetics versus environment. Identical twins (one-egg twins) share exactly the same set of genes while fraternal twins (two-egg twins), like ordinary siblings, share only one-half their genes. A higher rate of concordance (similarity) between identical twins compared with fraternal twins would argue for heredity. In other words, how often are both twins affected together rather than only one. The evidence favors heredity with figures like 60% (identical) versus 39% (fraternal) in one Scandinavian study.

“Even more interesting are the results from adoption studies. When adopted in infancy and studied into adulthood, sons of alcoholics were 4 times as likely to be alcoholic as were sons of non-alcoholics. And this risk was not affected by the alcoholism status of the adopted parent!


^^^ higher alcoholism can be found in twins and adoption studies of those with gentic links, their chance of becoming an alcoholic was unaffected by their the adopted parent figure being a non-alcoholic

[ILLsmak]

See my POV of this is different. I think society is ****ed. Especially American society. You can see it in the way shit happens with our celebs. Jealousy, picking at their faults, hating them, then kind of cheering them on.

Britney Spears is a slut... she's an addict... **** her... oh now she's broke and she's recovering from addiction. Go Britney!

I think people praise them because they know they are no threat. Sure, it's good to overcome, and it does take a lot to stop, but do you see what I mean? The same people would, if shit got real, probably use it against you. Bet.

To me, it's not so much addiction as the underlying cause. Some drugs are really good, but the issue is there are people just trying to escape or numb the pain. Those people do need praise. Starting drugs, in my opinion, isn't like some dude passes you something at a party, you try it once and are hooked. Depends on what it is, sure, but I think even if you get addicted, if you are enjoying life outside of it, you'll step away.

Drug addiction is like committing suicide without really dying. It's very arguable if people ever recover from that mind state. That's why it's so easy to relapse.

It's not that, at least from what I've seen, people go to Passages and listen to the waterfalls and get a new outlook on life (that lasts), they just (hopefully) decide I'm never gonna do drugs again. Because, ultimately... beyond every sugar coating drugs really 'are bad.'

-Smak

[RidonKs]

now i know i have one more high left in me; but i doubt very much i have one more recovery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXGtSjn5h0Q)

[oarabbus]

https://ncadd.org/for-parents-overview/family-history-and-genetics/226-family-history-and-genetics

^^^ a good article for you shvler, you should actually read it



environment mostly just dictates how often alcohol is thrown in front of someone, it does not dictate how their brain will react to it, that part is mostly genetic.




^^^ higher alcoholism can be found in twins and adoption studies of those with gentic links, their chance of becoming an alcoholic was unaffected by their the adopted parent figure being a non-alcoholic


If you are trying to say that there is some percentage of people who will drink, and be genetically predisposed to severely abusing alcohol, then I agree with that.

If you are trying to say the vast majority of all alcoholics are alcoholics due to genetic factors, then that is not what the science shows. And I think that is shlver's point.

[~primetime~]

If you are trying to say that there is some percentage of people who will drink, and be genetically predisposed to severely abusing alcohol, then I agree with that.

If you are trying to say the vast majority of all alcoholics are alcoholics due to genetic factors, then that is not what the science shows. And I think that is shlver's point.
I'm saying that the majority of alcoholics are so because of genetics, yes. Not all but most, there is no proven percentage. I have read dozens of articles on this, just read the one you quoted.

Shlver was just out on a mission to show I don't know anything.


Me: smoking cigarettes leads to lung cancer.
Shvler: you have no understanding of cancer cells or how they originate.
Me: *posts mountain of evidence linking cigarettes to lung cancer*
Shvler: *ignores all articles* So you haven't the slightest clue about how cancer works, waste of time. Most cigarette smokers don't get lung cancer and you can't explain why because you don't understand it.

^^^ that's exactly what shvler just did

[~primetime~]

Tiddy brainwashed by the A

Everything is genetic though, if you're a dick who can't handle his booze you were born a dick who can't handle his booze
The being a dick part is likely environmental

Not being able to handle booz is likely genetic

:)