More impressive title, Wade in 06 or KG in 08?

[CJ Mustard]

The most overrated championship performance (Wade) vs the most underrated championship performance (KG). Wade was playing next to Shaq just outside of his prime. He still commanded double teams and was a defensive anchor. He also got bailed out by the refs on a consistent basis. KG doesn't get the credit he deserved because of a lack of a FMVP, and people giving Pierce/Allen/Thibs too much credit.

I still give the edge to Wade because he was the Heat's best player in the regular season, Playoffs, and Finals. KG was the best Celtic in the regular season, Playoffs, but had a mediocre Finals series. He did win DPOY though, and I think we'd all agree that the '08 Celtics would sweep the '06 Heat in 4.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk 2011.. Feel me?

[mehyaM24]

kg in 2008. better defender, rebounder...more of a presence.

wade was great in 2006, but shaq was still the man in miami.

[CJ Mustard]

Chandler 2011.. Feel me?
Nah, even though his anchoring of the Mavs defense was the primary reason why they won, he just wasn't quite on the level of KG/Wade as a two way player. He also had the luxury of having a lockdown perimeter defender in Shawn Marion to guard Lebron.

[JohnMax]

Anything is possible

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2008/0617/DM_080617_KG_LTT.jpg

[JohnnySic]

Wade had the immortal Antoine Walker to help him.

[IncarceratedBob]

Shows you what a Finals MVP means, Shaq deserved Wades and KG deserved Pierces.

[Fudge]

Bro, honestly, you got slayed years ago when Dirk won a title. Crawl back under your rock again. :lol

[Smoke117]

Wade led the Heat over the Mavs while the 2nd leading scorer was Antoine Walker averaging 13.8ppg on 14.5 shots...yeah I'm going to go with Wade here. KG was the 3rd leading scorer with 18.2ppg in the finals...

Also...the Celtics who didn't go less than 6 games in ANY round (7 games in first and 2nd round) in 08...are going to sweep the Heat...if you say so. :rolleyes: I never thought Pierce deserved the Finals MVP. If you were going to give it to someone for what they did offensively...they should have gave it to Ray who ate the Lakers up. I think it should have went to Garnett because he was by far the best rebounder and defensive player. Even if he did have a mediocre scoring finals, he was still the most important player...the most valuable.

[ArbitraryWater]

kg in 2008. better defender, rebounder...more of a presence.

wade was great in 2006, but shaq was still the man in miami.

Obviously you're so off with this... Now if you were to discuss who was the man in 2005, that could get interesting :applause:

Pick some good Heat fan... PJR or someone.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade led the Heat over the Mavs while the 2nd leading scorer was Antoine Walker averaging 13.8ppg on 14.5 shots...yeah I'm going to go with Wade here. KG was the 3rd leading scorer with 18.2ppg in the finals...

Also...the Celtics who didn't go less than 6 games in ANY round in 08...are going to sweep the Heat...if you say so. :rolleyes: I never thought Pierce deserved the Finals MVP. If you were going to give it to someone for what they did offensively...they should have gave it to Ray who ate the Lakers up. I think it should have went to Garnett because he was by far the best rebounder and defensive player. Even if he did have a mediocre scoring finals, he was still the most important player...the most valuable.

Allen did a great job defensively on Kobe aswell.. Pierce switched on him at times.

[Bigsmoke]

Wade led the Heat over the Mavs while the 2nd leading scorer was Antoine Walker averaging 13.8ppg on 14.5 shots...yeah I'm going to go with Wade here. KG was the 3rd leading scorer with 18.2ppg in the finals...

Also...the Celtics who didn't go less than 6 games in ANY round (7 games in first and 2nd round) in 08...are going to sweep the Heat...if you say so. :rolleyes: I never thought Pierce deserved the Finals MVP. If you were going to give it to someone for what they did offensively...they should have gave it to Ray who ate the Lakers up. I think it should have went to Garnett because he was by far the best rebounder and defensive player. Even if he did have a mediocre scoring finals, he was still the most important player...the most valuable.

Garnett dominated in that game 6 blowout:hammerhead:


Pierce and Ray were obviously the best players in that series. Pierce was the best player in 3 of the 6 games and led the Celtics and PPG and assists so he deserved the award. He also outscored Kobe twice in LA which isn't an easy accomplishment

[DaSeba5]

Wade's Finals overrated?

06 Heat swept?

Ok.

[Papaya Petee]

:roll: Shaq deserved Wades FMVP? Garnetts run was better? Celtics would sweep Heat?

You trolls reached an all time level of pathetic.

KGs run isnt in the same galaxy as Wades. How the **** is this an argument?

[SouBeachTalents]

The most recent underrated Finals performance is Kobe's 2002. Dude put up 27, 6, 5 on 51%, which would be good enough for Finals MVP in almost any given year.

The most recent overrated Finals performance, based on some of the posts I've seen on this board, would be Shaq in '06.

[masonanddixon]

Obviously Wade.

Even if the refs played a huge role, it was statistically the greatest Finals performance ever.

[masonanddixon]

kg in 2008. better defender, rebounder...more of a presence.

wade was great in 2006, but shaq was still the man in miami.

lol Shaq was terrible in the Finals. He was constantly being benched for old man Alonzo.

[Dave3]

kg in 2008. better defender, rebounder...more of a presence.

wade was great in 2006, but shaq was still the man in miami.
13/10 in the finals vs 34 ppg and the one with 13 is "the man"

How young are the kids on this board now? Jeez.

[ArbitraryWater]

13/10 in the finals vs 34 ppg and the one with 13 is "the man"

How young are the kids on this board now? Jeez.

Dude is actually an older fan of the game... knowledgable but biased in cases like this.

[masonanddixon]

Dude is actually an older fan of the game... knowledgable but biased in cases like this.

Ah is he a Lebron fanboi?

[NZStreetBaller]

The most recent underrated Finals performance is Kobe's 2002. Dude put up 27, 6, 5 on 51%, which would be good enough for Finals MVP in almost any given year.

The most recent overrated Finals performance, based on some of the posts I've seen on this board, would be Shaq in '06.

Welcome back kenneth:cheers:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

KG by far. He anchored a GOAT level defense and it was like 80% him. Lets not forget past prime KG anchored the best defense in 2012 when he didnt have any other great defenders or bigs on the team

he passed better, shot better, rebounded better, defense was on another level entirely. Wade was a better slasher that got some of most egregious ref help ever

[necya]

OP is such a stupid poster, just shut up man

[aj1987]

The most recent underrated Finals performance is Kobe's 2002. Dude put up 27, 6, 5 on 51%, which would be good enough for Finals MVP in almost any given year.
Not when your teammate averages 36/12/4/3 on 60%.

KG averaed 20/11/3/1/1 on 54% TS. Wade averaged 28/6/6/2/1 on 59%. +5 rebounds and good defense is not enough to offset +8 PPG and +3 assists. Also, Wade was a pretty good defender himself. Also, the Heat beat 2 60 win teams and none of the teams they played against were a couple of games below .500.

[Dresta]

OP if you think that Shaq was a defensive anchor in 2006 you really did not watch the Heat much, or at all that year. Shaq was a defensive liability at the end of the 06 season. In the finals, Zo had a far bigger defensive impact.

Anyway, the answer to this question is of course Wade:

KG: 18/13/3/2/1 on 47TS% Ortg 99 Drtg 99
Wade: 35/8/4/3/1 on 57TS Ortg 113 Drtg 97

Wade's was one of the biggest one man shows in a finals ever; KG didn't even win finals mvp, played 5 less mpg, and Boston were as good with him off the court as on.

Shaq?

14/10/3 on 53TS% 95Ortg, 99Drtg

And Zo had a huge impact with an Ortg 119 and Drtg 89 - in fact, what this huge impact from a simple straight swap really shows is that Shaq (if anything) was losing Miami the series, not winning it.

[miles berg]

Wade easily. Wade is up there with Dirk 2011 at the top of recent history.

[PJR]

Anyone who says Garnett cannot be taken seriously.

[CJ Mustard]

When are people gonna understand that a championship run includes the regular season, Playoffs, and Finals? With the way people only bring up the Finals, you'd think Cedric Maxwell was the man on the 1981 Celtics. Wade had a really good Finals series, but he had Shaq commanding double teams to free him up (and the refs calling everything in his favor). KG was DPOY, 3rd in MVP voting, was his teams leading scorer, rebounder, and defensive anchor in the Playoffs, and led a better team than Wade did.

[Papaya Petee]

Ok then lets break this down

Regular season
Wade- 27\7\6\2\1 with a worse supporting cast #2 seed
KG- 19\9\3\1\1 with arguably the GOAT supporting cast #1 seed

Not much debate here, Wade was better all around.

Playoffs
Wade- 28.5\6\6\2\1 50% FG (16-7 Record)
KG- 20\11\3\1\1 50% FG (16-10 Record)

Numbers Wade once again was better all around.

Throughout the first 2 rounds, Garnett and the 66-16 Celtics allowed the 35-47 win HAWKS to take them to 7 games, and the 45-47 win CAVS to take them to 7 games.
Wade and the Heat took care of business, bouncing the 41-41 Bulls in 6 and 49-33 Nets in 5.

During the Conference Finals, both teams took out the Pistons in 6 games. However, the 2005-2006 version of the Pistons was MUCH better than the 2007-2008 version, and the Heat did it without HCA while the Celtics had HCA.

Finals
Wade- 35\8\4\2\1
Garnett- 18\11\3\1\1

This is where this becomes a stupid debate. The Heat beat the 62 win MAVS team in 6 without HCA, with Wade having one of the greatest finals ever. Heat were down 0-2 and down 13 points in the 4th quarter in game 3, and Wade took over, his last 4 games he scored 42,36,43 and 36 points respectively. That being in his 3rd season in the NBA.

Celtics beat the 57 win Lakers in 6 with HCA, while Garnett having a good series, didn't even win FMVP on his team.

Other points
Wades second option in Shaq averaged 13 PPG in the Finals, while Garnett
had 2 players score 20+ PPG in the Finals.

The Heat faced 2 60+ Teams in the playoffs without HCA
Celtics faced none. Despite that, the Heat finished with a 16-7 playoff record to Bostons 16-10

Wade won the FMVP, while Garnett did not. Everyone with a brain knows Wade>>>> Garnett in terms of those 2 runs.

[Dresta]

When are people gonna understand that a championship run includes the regular season, Playoffs, and Finals? With the way people only bring up the Finals, you'd think Cedric Maxwell was the man on the 1981 Celtics. Wade had a really good Finals series, but he had Shaq commanding double teams to free him up (and the refs calling everything in his favor). KG was DPOY, 3rd in MVP voting, was his teams leading scorer, rebounder, and defensive anchor in the Playoffs, and led a better team than Wade did.
What you mean is Garnett was given a better team than Wade. And no, for a championship run, the regular season doesn't really matter much at all. As shown by the Miami Heat in 06: only winning 52 games, before being carried to a title by an incredibly dominant playoff run by Wade - he had a fantastic ECSF, ECF and Finals. In the three most important series he was far and away the best player on the Miami heat, and i can't say the same about Garnett in 08.

[Dresta]

Ok then lets break this down

Regular season
Wade- 27\7\6\2\1 with a worse supporting cast #2 seed
KG- 19\9\3\1\1 with arguably the GOAT supporting cast #1 seed

Not much debate here, Wade was better all around.

Playoffs
Wade- 28.5\6\6\2\1 50% FG (16-7 Record)
KG- 20\11\3\1\1 50% FG (16-10 Record)

Numbers Wade once again was better all around.

Throughout the first 2 rounds, Garnett and the 66-16 Celtics allowed the 35-47 win HAWKS to take them to 7 games, and the 45-47 win CAVS to take them to 7 games.
Wade and the Heat took care of business, bouncing the 41-41 Bulls in 6 and 49-33 Nets in 5.

During the Conference Finals, both teams took out the Pistons in 6 games. However, the 2005-2006 version of the Pistons was MUCH better than the 2007-2008 version, and the Heat did it without HCA while the Celtics had HCA.

Finals
Wade- 35\8\4\2\1
Garnett- 18\11\3\1\1

This is where this becomes a stupid debate. The Heat beat the 62 win MAVS team in 6 without HCA, with Wade having one of the greatest finals ever. Heat were down 0-2 and down 13 points in the 4th quarter in game 3, and Wade took over, his last 4 games he scored 42,36,43 and 36 points respectively. That being in his 3rd season in the NBA.

Celtics beat the 57 win Lakers in 6 with HCA, while Garnett having a good series, didn't even win FMVP on his team.

Other points
Wades second option in Shaq averaged 13 PPG in the Finals, while Garnett
had 2 players score 20+ PPG in the Finals.

The Heat faced 2 60+ Teams in the playoffs without HCA
Celtics faced none. Despite that, the Heat finished with a 16-7 playoff record to Bostons 16-10

Wade won the FMVP, while Garnett did not. Everyone with a brain knows Wade>>>> Garnett in terms of those 2 runs.
:lol


/thread.

[Akhenaten]

When are people gonna understand that a championship run includes the regular season, Playoffs, and Finals? With the way people only bring up the Finals, you'd think Cedric Maxwell was the man on the 1981 Celtics. Wade had a really good Finals series, but he had Shaq commanding double teams to free him up (and the refs calling everything in his favor). KG was DPOY, 3rd in MVP voting, was his teams leading scorer, rebounder, and defensive anchor in the Playoffs, and led a better team than Wade did.

KG playoffs: 20/11 1stl 1blk 49.5%
KG reg season: 19/9 1stl 1blk 54%

Wade Reg season: 27/7/6 2stls 1blk 50%
Wade playoffs: 28/6/6 2stls 1 blk 50%

Don't have a problem with someone taking KG, but to pretend as if Wade was some guy along for the ride, even have the gall to like him to Cedric Maxwell :facepalm

Jesus Christ yall love disrespecting this dude, I just don't get it
Wade lead his team in scoring in the regular season and playoffs, KG "lead" his team in scoring by a fraction of a point.

Wade lead his team in points, asts, stl reg season and playoffs
It comes do to how you assess KG's defensive impact vs Wade's offensive impact.

I feel Wade had to carry the Heat offense much more than KG had to carry Boston's D. The Celtics had a MUCH better roster than Miami. Again, you can favour KG and still act like you have some damn sense.

Cedric Fing Maxwell? :banghead: :biggums:

[tpols]

:lol @ people saying wade > garnett in the regular season

Wade 6th in MVP voting in a year steve nash won it
Garnett 3rd in MVP voting in a year peak kobe and almost peak paul won it


Gilbert Arenas had the same stats basically that Wade had in that regular season... Is Arenas > Garnett to because he put up over 27 ppg in a year the NBA was begging its perimeter superstars to score? Especially given wades slashing/foul baiting style of play 27 ppg in a year that was a full 8ppg off the leader isnt that impressive.

Id take garnetts best defense in the league by far over wades 5th best scoring.


In the playoffs? Shaq was better than any of Garnetts teammates in their run through the east. Shaq averaged 20/10 throughout their eastern conference competition including 22/11 on 66%FG against the pistons in the ecf :eek: And they say Shaq wasnt dominant at all. :oldlol:

In the Finals? Yea Wade beat a team with extreme ref bias that gave him more FTs than anyone in the history of basketball besides peak shaq and wilt chamerlain, who were intentionally fouled for their lack of shooting ability.

Meanwhile Garnett anchored arguably a top 3-5 defense in the history of the league.. He took boston from a below average 16th ranked defense to the 1st ranked defense overnight. Shut down peak pau gasol, and his help defense helped shut down peak kobe in the Finals. Pure impact.


I would definitely take 2008 Garnett as a player over 2006 Wade and to act like its not debateable is absurd.

[ArbitraryWater]

:lol @ people saying wade > garnett in the regular season

Wade 6th in MVP voting in a year steve nash won it
Garnett 3rd in MVP voting in a year peak kobe and almost peak paul won it


Gilbert Arenas had the same stats basically that Wade had in that regular season... Is Arenas > Garnett to because he put up over 27 ppg in a year the NBA was begging its perimeter superstars to score? Especially given wades slashing/foul baiting style of play 27 ppg in a year that was a full 8ppg off the leader isnt that impressive.

Id take garnetts best defense in the league by far over wades 5th best scoring.


In the playoffs? Shaq was better than any of Garnetts teammates in their run through the east. Shaq averaged 20/10 throughout their eastern conference competition including 22/11 on 66%FG against the pistons in the ecf :eek: And they say Shaq wasnt dominant at all. :oldlol:

In the Finals? Yea Wade beat a team with extreme ref bias that gave him more FTs than anyone in the history of basketball besides peak shaq and wilt chamerlain, who were intentionally fouled for their lack of shooting ability.

Meanwhile Garnett anchored arguably a top 3-5 defense in the history of the league.. He took boston from a below average 16th ranked defense to the 1st ranked defense overnight. Shut down peak pau gasol, and his help defense helped shut down peak kobe in the Finals. Pure impact.


I would definitely take 2008 Garnett as a player over 2006 Wade and to act like its not debateable is absurd.

Yea I was a little thrown off by his "2006 RS Wade > 2008 RS KG not much to be said here" opening Point... 2008 KG was pretty easily the better regular season performer..

[tpols]

I feel Wade had to carry the Heat offense much more than KG had to carry Boston's D.
:

False. Garnett improved the Celtics defense arguably more than any superstar ever has basically overnight. 16th to 1st.. shutdown LA in the Finals when they were peaking.. he literally turned a below average defense into an all time great.

[Real14]

I would say 08 but K.G had help with two team leaders in pierce and allen. So my answer is neither.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Numbers aren't everything here. KG was playing some ATG defense. But still it's really close

[Nowitness]

KG for sure. When you turn a team from 16 wins to 23 loses, bring a defense first mentality and are the best defender (by far) and a team that won through defense I'd give it to you. Deserved his second MVP also.

Wade was good, but Shaq/Refs played too big a role.

[Real14]

KG for sure. When you turn a team from 16 wins to 23 loses, bring a defense first mentality and are the best defender (by far) and a team that won through defense I'd give it to you. Deserved his second MVP also.

Wade was good, but Shaq/Refs played too big a role.

Look at how stacked his team was though, he was one of the reasons why Lebron went to Miami in 2010.

[Smoke117]

KG for sure. When you turn a team from 16 wins to 23 loses, bring a defense first mentality and are the best defender (by far) and a team that won through defense I'd give it to you. Deserved his second MVP also.

Wade was good, but Shaq/Refs played too big a role.

Yeah because the Celtics had the same line up besides adding Garnett. You are too correct. :rolleyes: :facepalm

[aj1987]

:lol @ people saying wade > garnett in the regular season

Wade 6th in MVP voting in a year steve nash won it
Garnett 3rd in MVP voting in a year peak kobe and almost peak paul won it
So, Nash and Dirk >>> Kobe in '06? Kobe basically got the same number of votes as Billups. '06 Billups = '06 Kobe?



Gilbert Arenas had the same stats basically that Wade had in that regular season... Is Arenas > Garnett to because he put up over 27 ppg in a year the NBA was begging its perimeter superstars to score? Especially given wades slashing/foul baiting style of play 27 ppg in a year that was a full 8ppg off the leader isnt that impressive.

Id take garnetts best defense in the league by far over wades 5th best scoring.

:facepalm

Arenas isn't even close to being the player Wade is. You do realize that the same logic can be used to say that KG's '08 season > almost all of Kobe's seasons, right?

Also, foul baiting and slashing? Only idiots who watch the boxscore spew that kind of crap. Wade took ~40% of his shots from midrange. More than the shots he took at the rim. Another 20% from 3-10ft. In all, he took 60% of his shots from 3ft+.



In the playoffs? Shaq was better than any of Garnetts teammates in their run through the east. Shaq averaged 20/10 throughout their eastern conference competition including 22/11 on 66%FG against the pistons in the ecf :eek: And they say Shaq wasnt dominant at all. :oldlol:

Wade averaged 27/5/6/2/2 on 68% TS against the Pistons, even though he scored only 15 points in the 6th game (the game in which he was mostly feeding Shaq). Dude destroyed the Pistons. Sure, Shaq was good in the first 3 rounds. Wade averaged 26/5/6/2/1 on 60% TS though. Lets also not forget that KG had Pierce AND Allen. The Heat team was basically garbage outside Wade/Shaq (some of them had their moments though Zo, GP, etc.)


Meanwhile Garnett anchored arguably a top 3-5 defense in the history of the league.. He took boston from a below average 16th ranked defense to the 1st ranked defense overnight. Shut down peak pau gasol, and his help defense helped shut down peak kobe in the Finals. Pure impact.
Wait. You think that the '07 and '08 Celtics squads were the same? :oldlol:

Pierce missed half the season, Rondo was a rookie, Tony Allen missed 50 games, addition of Posey, etc.

The ****ing 37 win Hawks took the Celtics to 7 games and the garbage ass Cavs took them to 7 games as well. Miami played 2 60 win teams and beat both of them in 6. They beat the number 4, 5, and 7 defenses.

Oh and Kobe choked in the '08 Finals (as he did in the 2004 Finals). Shut down Pau? Pau averaged 15/10/3 on 57% TS (only 10 shots a game). If anyone shutdown Pau, it was Kobe. If anything, Pau shutdown KG. Dude went from 21/10/4/1/1 on 56% TS in the first 3 rounds to 18/13/3/2/1 on 47% TS in the Finals.


False. Garnett improved the Celtics defense arguably more than any superstar ever has basically overnight. 16th to 1st.. shutdown LA in the Finals when they were peaking.. he literally turned a below average defense into an all time great.
O'rly? Why didn't he do the same in Minny during his PEAK. The best he could manage was 6th and Minny constantly was ~10th-15th best defensively when KG was there.

[Mass Debator]

Numbers aren't everything here. KG was playing some ATG defense. But still it's really close
And Wade played ATG offense

[tpols]

So, Nash and Dirk >>> Kobe in '06? Kobe basically got the same number of votes as Billups. '06 Billups = '06 Kobe?

:facepalm

Arenas isn't even close to being the player Wade is. You do realize that the same logic can be used to say that KG's '08 season > almost all of Kobe's seasons, right?

Also, foul baiting and slashing? Only idiots who watch the boxscore spew that kind of crap. Wade took ~40% of his shots from midrange. More than the shots he took at the rim. Another 20% from 3-10ft. In all, he took 60% of his shots from 3ft+.

Nah.. Wade was 5th in scoring that year. Behind guys like arenas and old iverson. Garnett was the best defensive player in the league. If wade had led the league in scoring? Maybe thered be an argument but he didnt even come close.




Wade averaged 27/5/6/2/2 on 68% TS against the Pistons, even though he scored only 15 points in the 6th game (the game in which he was mostly feeding Shaq). Dude destroyed the Pistons. Sure, Shaq was good in the first 3 rounds. Wade averaged 26/5/6/2/1 on 60% TS though. Lets also not forget that KG had Pierce AND Allen. The Heat team was basically garbage outside Wade/Shaq (some of them had their moments though Zo, GP, etc.)

Shaq was better in those first three rounds than any of KG's teammates. Fact.

Shaq was better in the ECF than any of KG's teammates were in any one series. Fact.

Shaq sucked in the Finals, but that was made up for with record breaking number of free throws that aroused suspicion.




Wait. You think that the '07 and '08 Celtics squads were the same? :oldlol:

Pierce missed half the season, Rondo was a rookie, Tony Allen missed 50 games, addition of Posey, etc.

When Pierce played the full season just before 2007, in 2006.. the celtics were the 20th ranked defense. They still had kenrick perkins.. they had delonte west who has always been a very good defender, they had tony allen.. still finished with a poor defense.

Pierce isnt a game changer on defense.. :lol at you mentioning posey as a reason their overall team defense improved so dramatically.. a bench role player perimeter defender impacting the game anywhere near the level of Kevin Garnett.

KG won DPOY.

KG had a defensive rating of 94.

KG quarterbacked a historically great defense.

No one on the celtics had even CLOSE to his defensive impact using any measureable.

[ImKobe]

Ok then lets break this down

Regular season
Wade- 27\7\6\2\1 with a worse supporting cast #2 seed
KG- 19\9\3\1\1 with arguably the GOAT supporting cast #1 seed

Not much debate here, Wade was better all around.

Playoffs
Wade- 28.5\6\6\2\1 50% FG (16-7 Record)
KG- 20\11\3\1\1 50% FG (16-10 Record)

Numbers Wade once again was better all around.

Throughout the first 2 rounds, Garnett and the 66-16 Celtics allowed the 35-47 win HAWKS to take them to 7 games, and the 45-47 win CAVS to take them to 7 games.
Wade and the Heat took care of business, bouncing the 41-41 Bulls in 6 and 49-33 Nets in 5.

During the Conference Finals, both teams took out the Pistons in 6 games. However, the 2005-2006 version of the Pistons was MUCH better than the 2007-2008 version, and the Heat did it without HCA while the Celtics had HCA.

Finals
Wade- 35\8\4\2\1
Garnett- 18\11\3\1\1

This is where this becomes a stupid debate. The Heat beat the 62 win MAVS team in 6 without HCA, with Wade having one of the greatest finals ever. Heat were down 0-2 and down 13 points in the 4th quarter in game 3, and Wade took over, his last 4 games he scored 42,36,43 and 36 points respectively. That being in his 3rd season in the NBA.

Celtics beat the 57 win Lakers in 6 with HCA, while Garnett having a good series, didn't even win FMVP on his team.

Other points
Wades second option in Shaq averaged 13 PPG in the Finals, while Garnett
had 2 players score 20+ PPG in the Finals.

The Heat faced 2 60+ Teams in the playoffs without HCA
Celtics faced none. Despite that, the Heat finished with a 16-7 playoff record to Bostons 16-10

Wade won the FMVP, while Garnett did not. Everyone with a brain knows Wade>>>> Garnett in terms of those 2 runs.


And there are people still arguing after this post




:kobe: :kobe: :kobe:

[Smoke117]

i don't necessarily think Wade as better during the regular season...they had different roles and frankly KG was the man during the playoffs (he ate up Sheed...a fantastic one on one defender...he just made everything...it was quite obnoxious of him) offensively besides the finals.

[Nowitness]

And there are people still arguing after this post




:kobe: :kobe: :kobe:

KG faced harder opposition without the assists of the refs.

[Real14]

Yeah because the Celtics had the same line up besides adding Garnett. You are too correct. :rolleyes: :facepalm
True but Wade's finals in 06 had more rigged games than any other finals series than I've ever seen (besides 2012). I mean the refs gave him 3 straight games, feasting at the line and thousands of no calls. His team was stacked that year too.

[tpols]

O'rly? Why didn't he do the same in Minny during his PEAK. The best he could manage was 6th and Minny constantly was ~10th-15th best defensively when KG was there.

Because Garnett had to average 22+ppg, 13 rpg, and 5-6 assists per game just for his team to compete? Was that a serious question?:lol

The one year he actually had help in minny and didnt have to do everything, he led a 6th rankeed defense. When he could finally focus most of his energy on defense(and cut back on scoring 4ppg and rebounding 4rpg) with boston he led an ATG defense.

Like what?:hammerhead:

[aj1987]

Nah.. Wade was 5th in scoring that year. Behind guys like arenas and old iverson. Garnett was the best defensive player in the league. If wade had led the league in scoring? Maybe thered be an argument but he didnt even come close.
:biggums:

What kind of dumbass logic is that? Are you trying to imply that Dwight was better than Kobe in '09 and '10? Because Dwight was an incredible defensive player, who was also putting up 20 PPG and grabbing 14 boards a game?


Shaq was better in those first three rounds than any of KG's teammates. Fact.
KG had the BETTER team. FACT. Wade had the better 2nd option and KG's team was better.

1. Wade
2. KG
3. Shaq
4. Pierce
5. Allen


Shaq was better in the ECF than any of KG's teammates were in any one series. Fact.
You do know that Pierce and Allen TORCHED Kobe in the Finals, right? 21/5/6/1 on 59% TS and 20/5/3/1/1 on 71% TS.


Shaq sucked in the Finals, but that was made up for with record breaking number of free throws that aroused suspicion.
What does that have to do with anything.


When Pierce played the full season just before 2007, in 2006.. the celtics were the 20th ranked defense. They still had kenrick perkins.. they had delonte west who has always been a very good defender, they had tony allen.. still finished with a poor defense.
:facepalm

TA missed 31 games in '06 and Perkins wasn't really that good. What about the other players? The Celtics were worse than garbage in '06. Rondo, Pierce, Tony Allen, Perkins, Pierce, Posey, etc. were all good defensively in '08.


Pierce isnt a game changer on defense.. :lol at you mentioning posey as a reason their overall team defense improved so dramatically.. a bench role player perimeter defender impacting the game anywhere near the level of Kevin Garnett.
Read the entire post, idiot. I said the change in the roster helped the Celtics become the #1 defense. Where did I say otherwise. Of course, KG was a tremendous defender. Don't act like he was the ONLY good defender though.


KG had a defensive rating of 94.

KG quarterbacked a historically great defense.
Still struggled to beat a 37 win Hawks team and the Cavs, while Wade ripped apart the 64 win Pistons and 60 win Mavs.


Because Garnett had to average 22+ppg, 13 rpg, and 5-6 assists per game just for his team to compete? Was that a serious question?

The one year he actually had help in minny and didnt have to do everything, he led a 6th rankeed defense. When he could finally focus most of his energy on defense(and cut back on scoring 4ppg and rebounding 4rpg) with boston he led an ATG defense.
Haven't we seen players average over 20 points and grab 13+ rebounds and still win DPOY? 30+ PPG scorers also won DPOY's. The fact is, to be a really good defensive team, you need a couple of good defenders. I'm not saying that KG is a bad defender or anything. He was the best defender in the league, but to say that he was the only reason as to why the Celtics' defense was good is just asinine.

Also, +8 PPG, +3 Assists, +5% efficiency > the defensive advantage that KG has over Wade.

[Mass Debator]

KG faced harder opposition without the assists of the refs.
Still butthurt Nowitness got shutdown by fking Haslem :lol
39% from the field? God awful. Ricky Rubio and Brandon Jennings territory here.

[Smoke117]

Gilbert Arenas had the same stats basically that Wade had in that regular season... Is Arenas > Garnett to because he put up over 27 ppg in a year the NBA was begging its perimeter superstars to score? Especially given wades slashing/foul baiting style of play 27 ppg in a year that was a full 8ppg off the leader isnt that impressive.


:kobe: Don't get cute.

[tpols]

Don't act like he was the ONLY good defender though.


Nice strawman, bro.

I said he turned their defense around. He was the glue. If KG wasnt there, there would be no elite defense. He was the communicator.. you dont even understand half the game. :oldlol:





Also, +8 PPG, +3 Assists, +5% efficiency > the defensive advantage that KG has over Wade.

Offensively yea Wade was better but there's a heavy * there.

100 FTs worth of inflation. Rule changes so you cant touch a slashing guards(of which wade is one of the most prominent)

KG's defense was pure.. unabated by extreme ref bias.

It is what it is.

[aj1987]

Nice strawman, bro.

I said he turned their defense around. He was the glue. If KG wasnt there, there would be no elite defense. He was the communicator.. you dont even understand half the game. :oldlol:

It might not have been the best defense in the league, but it still would've been pretty good. Once AGAIN, KG wasn't the only good defender on the team.



Offensively yea Wade was better but there's a heavy * there.

100 FTs worth of inflation.

KG's defense was pure, unabated by extreme ref bias.

It is what it is.
:facepalm

Stop being such a dumbass. Wade got FT's because 40% of his shots were at the rim and the only way to stop him was to foul him. Prime Wade was one of the best finisher at the rim. Dude was a flat out beast. Are Kobe's '06 and '07 seasons overrated as well, since he got a ton of FT's as well?

'06 Wade > '08 KG. The stats prove it and the postseason success proves it as well. If you still think that KG was better, then '08 KG >> almost all of Kobe's seasons as well.

[Smoke117]

Nice strawman, bro.

I said he turned their defense around. He was the glue. If KG wasnt there, there would be no elite defense. He was the communicator.. you dont even understand half the game. :oldlol:





Offensively yea Wade was better but there's a heavy * there.

100 FTs worth of inflation. Rule changes so you cant touch a slashing guards(of which wade is one of the most prominent)

KG's defense was pure.. unabated by extreme ref bias.

It is what it is.

You don't have any agendas though.

[tpols]

aj you cant even stay on track.

All youve got now is 'b-b-but Kobe!". :oldlol:

27/5/5 is a down year for prime Kobe.

If you hold 2006 constant for scoring ability.. Kobe was a 35ppg scorer. Wade was a 27ppg scorer. The difference you see between KG and Wade w/ regards to scoring the ball is the SAME difference that exists between Kobe and Wade.. in that year. It is not comparable.

Anything else?

[Smoke117]

aj you cant even stay on track.

All youve got now is 'b-b-but Kobe!". :oldlol:

27/5/5 is a down year for prime Kobe.

If you hold 2006 constant for scoring ability.. Kobe was a 35ppg scorer. Wade was a 27ppg scorer. The difference you see between KG and Wade w/ regards to scoring the ball is the SAME difference that exists between Kobe and Wade.. in that year. It is not comparable.

Anything else?

I'll take Wade in 06 over Kobe in 06 any day. Why would I want the chucker who barely played defense when I can have the much better all around player and defender? He was "only" a 27ppg scorer...

[tpols]

I'll take Wade in 06 over Kobe in 06 any day. Why would I want the chucker who barely played defense when I can have the much better all around player and defender? He was "only" a 27ppg scorer...

Your entitled to your opinion. I dont want to derail this thread like aj has attempted to though.

But I'd like to point out that youre only helping the case of 08 KG > 06 Wade with your logic. KG may have scored 'only 7 ppg less' than Wade, but his 'all around play' and contributions made outside of scoring were worlds higher than Wade's were.

[houston]

wade in 06 for sure he carried an old Heat team to the promise land. Espec. he got a finals mvp with it too.

[Smoke117]

Your entitled to your opinion. I dont want to derail this thread like aj has attempted to though.

But I'd like to point out that youre only helping the case of 08 KG > 06 Wade with your logic. KG may have scored 'only 7 ppg less' than Wade, but his 'all around play' and contributions made outside of scoring were worlds higher than Wade's were.

I'm a fan of both players so it doesn't really matter to me. I think you just can't Pick Garnett over Wade. Without Wade that team his horrible. The 09 Celtics took the Magic (who went to the finals) to 7 games WITHOUT KG...

[CJ Mustard]

I'm a fan of both players so it doesn't really matter to me. I think you just can't Pick Garnett over Wade. Without Wade that team his horrible. The 09 Celtics took the Magic (who went to the finals) to 7 games WITHOUT KG...
Because the Magic were one of the biggest boneheaded/choking teams in the last decade. They also got taken to 7 games by a mediocre Bulls team led by a rookie Derrick Rose and Ben Gordon.

[tpols]

I'm a fan of both players so it doesn't really matter to me. I think you just can't Pick Garnett over Wade. Without Wade that team his horrible. The 09 Celtics took the Magic (who went to the finals) to 7 games WITHOUT KG...

Look at the 90s Bulls..

With MJ? Champions. Without MJ? still took the Knicks to 7 games WITHOUT Michael Jordan.

Should players really be punished for having better supporting casts when their impact was still at all time high levels?


Sure Wade had a worse cast, but he still had 20/10 shaq all throughout the east. 22/11 66FG in the ECF. Thats GREAT help.

And then it comes down to whther you think the finals were shady or not.. which a lot of people do.

[Akhenaten]

aj you cant even stay on track.

All youve got now is 'b-b-but Kobe!". :oldlol:

27/5/5 is a down year for prime Kobe.

Him bringing up Kobe is relevant to the discussion because it shows your enormous bias towards Wade, the arguments you use as demerits against Wade somehow don't apply to Kobe.

Your brilliant reasoning is..REFS :facepalm



If you hold 2006 constant for scoring ability.. Kobe was a 35ppg scorer. Wade was a 27ppg scorer.

Kobe was also a 27 shot per game taker (including 6.5 3 point attempts per game), Wade was a 17 shot per game taker. The one season Wade took more than 20 shots (22 in 09) he avg over 30 ppg.

Kobe is superior in terms of being a "CALLOUS GUNSLINGER (Phil Jackson quote) who has no problems firing 6.5 3's per game despite shooting under 35%.



The difference you see between KG and Wade w/ regards to scoring the ball is the SAME difference that exists between Kobe and Wade.. in that year. It is not comparable.

Anything else?

bitch please :roll:

Wade had a playoff series in 06 where he avg 27 and 7 on 62% shooting vs a top 5 Defense, avg 34/7 on 56% vs the same defense that embarrassed Kobe in 08.


Wade is much more likely to avg 35 on 27 shots than Kobe ever was of avg 25+ on 60% or 34 on 56% vs a ELITE defense.

The only thing not comparable is Kobe's penchant for mindless chucking, Wade doesn't have that in him you're right.

I also love how you act like Wade's assists and playmaking is nothing, youre bias is disgusting. Just another flaw ass hater "Oh refs" but has no issue with Kobe shooting the same amount of ft's as Wade despite chucking a bunch a jumpers.

[tpols]

I also love how you act like Wade's assists and playmaking is nothing, youre bias is disgusting. Just another flaw ass hater "Oh refs" but has no issue with Kobe shooting the same amount of ft's as Wade despite chucking a bunch a jumpers.

Wade 19 FGA per game.. 10.7 FT attempts per game

Kobe 27 FGA per game.. 10.3 FT attempts per game


Yea Wade took 8 shot less and got MORE free throws. Whose STYLE do you think benefitted most from the rule changes?

Kobe from 01 to 04 averaged 21 FGA and 8 FTs. His ratio of FGA/FTA doesnt even change.. the only reason he got 2 more FTs in 2006 was because he took six more shots. The ref bias is non existant in his case when you examine the numbers.

Dwayne Wade on the other hand got more FTs in 2006 averaging 27ppg than he got in 2009 when he was a 30ppg scorer.:oldlol: :facepalm

The 'refs' argument applies 1000x more to slashers like wade than it does to, as you said, 'jumpshooters' like kobe.

[Smoke117]

Wade 19 FGA per game.. 10.7 FT attempts per game

Kobe 27 FGA per game.. 10.3 FT attempts per game


Yea Wade took 8 shot less and got MORE free throws. Whose STYLE do you think benefitted most from the rule changes?

Kobe from 01 to 04 averaged 21 FGA and 8 FTs. His ratio of FGA/FTA doesnt even change.. the only reason he got 2 more FTs in 2006 was because he took six more shots. The ref bias is non existant in his case when you examine the numbers.

Dwayne Wade on the other hand got more FTs in 2006 averaging 27ppg than he got in 2009 when he was a 30ppg scorer.:oldlol: :facepalm

The 'refs' argument applies 1000x more to slashers like wade than it does to, as you said, 'jumpshooters' like kobe.

Tpols Brain: Where getting to the basket more is a bad thing...:yaohappy: Are you drunk?

[tpols]

Tpols Brain: Where getting to the basket more is a bad thing...:yaohappy: Are you drunk?

Soo youre admitting that Wade benefitted the most from the unordinary rule changes that were being pushed at their peak in 2006 ?

Ok.

[GrapeApe]

Garnett was phenominal in 08, but the Celtics were without question a much better team than the '06 Heat. Wade did more with less. The '06 Heat were one of the weaker teams in recent memory to win a title. They overachieved largely due to Wade's brilliance. In fact, I think the '05 Heat were better than '06. The '05 team had the best convergence of Wade and Shaq. By the '05 playoffs Wade was a legit superstar and Shaq was still an MVP caliber player. Had Wade not got hurt against Detroit, the Heat win that series and would have had a great shot at beating the Spurs.

The following year Shaq was not the same player. He was still very good but that's the season his decline became extremely evident. It was obvious to anyone who watched the Heat that season that they were only going as far as Wade took them. Few expected the Heat to win a title that year. They were underdogs in the ECF and the finals. Conversely, most people had the '08 Celtics as the favorites.

[tpols]

The following year Shaq was not the same player. He was still very good but that's the season his decline became extremely evident. It was obvious to anyone who watched the Heat that season that they were only going as far as Wade took them. Few expected the Heat to win a title that year. They were underdogs in the ECF and the finals. Conversely, most people had the '08 Celtics as the favorites.

Actually thats not true.

The 08 Celtics were underdogs to the Lakers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

And sources had the Heat either winning in the finals over the mavs or a split decision.

http://www.madduxsports.com/2006-nba-playoffs/2006-nba-finals-preview.html

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/tank/nba/nba06finals.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/series?series=miadal


The 06 Heat were expected to lose slightly to Detroit.. the logic was, shaq had regressed from 27/11 63FG vs DET in 2004 to 20/7 59FG in 2005.

So they thought Miami wouldnt be able to get past the Pistons with Shaq even further declinging from the 2005 season, where he was an MVP candidate, to the 2006 season, where he was not.

To their surprise though he resurged with a dominant 22/11 66FG performance.. sent that Detroit froncourt into retirement pretty much. It wasnt 'all' wade. That timely second option production is ATG tbh and it came in the only series where they werent expected to win.

[ArbitraryWater]

Actually thats not true.

The 08 Celtics were underdogs to the Lakers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

And sources had the Heat either winning in the finals over the mavs or a split decision.

http://www.madduxsports.com/2006-nba-playoffs/2006-nba-finals-preview.html

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/tank/nba/nba06finals.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/series?series=miadal


The 06 Heat were expected to lose slightly to Detroit.. the logic was, shaq had regressed from 27/11 63FG vs DET in 2004 to 20/7 59FG in 2005.

So they thought Miami wouldnt be able to get past the Pistons with Shaq even further declinging from the 2005 season, where he was an MVP candidate, to the 2006 season, where he was not.

To their surprise though he resurged with a dominant 22/11 66FG performance.. sent that Detroit froncourt into retirement pretty much. It wasnt 'all' wade. That timely second option production is ATG tbh and it came in the only series where they werent expected to win.

Totally forgot... Kobe lost the '08 finals as favorite.

[tpols]

Totally forgot... Kobe lost the '08 finals as favorite.

Yes, he did.. as the facts show.

And you didnt 'forget'... :oldlol: That information just reached your brain 20 minutes ago for the first time.

[GrapeApe]

Actually thats not true.

The 08 Celtics were underdogs to the Lakers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

And sources had the Heat either winning in the finals over the mavs or a split decision.

http://www.madduxsports.com/2006-nba-playoffs/2006-nba-finals-preview.html

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/tank/nba/nba06finals.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/series?series=miadal


The 06 Heat were expected to lose slightly to Detroit.. the logic was, shaq had regressed from 27/11 63FG vs DET in 2004 to 20/7 59FG in 2005.

So they thought Miami wouldnt be able to get past the Pistons with Shaq even further declinging from the 2005 season, where he was an MVP candidate, to the 2006 season, where he was not.

To their surprise though he resurged with a dominant 22/11 66FG performance.. sent that Detroit froncourt into retirement pretty much. It wasnt 'all' wade. That timely second option production is ATG tbh and it came in the only series where they werent expected to win.

I'm by no means suggesting it was "all Wade", and regardless of who certain media outlets had as favorites, the Heat did win two series' without HCA. As a Heat fan I was not confident AT ALL about winning either of those series'. In '05 against Detroit I truly felt the Heat were the better team and would win. As far as ATG second option production against Detroit in '06, that's just a flat out exaggeration, though Shaq did play well.

[aj1987]

aj you cant even stay on track.

All youve got now is 'b-b-but Kobe!". :oldlol:

27/5/5 is a down year for prime Kobe.

If you hold 2006 constant for scoring ability.. Kobe was a 35ppg scorer. Wade was a 27ppg scorer. The difference you see between KG and Wade w/ regards to scoring the ball is the SAME difference that exists between Kobe and Wade.. in that year. It is not comparable.

Anything else?
Outside of '03, '06, and '07, Kobe pretty much always averaged 27/5/5 (+/- 1 point, rebound, assist).

Stop comparing Kobe to Wade. I brought up Kobe to only point out how retarded your logic was. Was '08 KG better than '97-'05 and '08-'13 Kobe? Because he was the much better Defender and the +8 PPG that Kobe brings is negligible? Essentially what you're trying to say is that Kobe had 3 seasons which were better than '08 KG's (and that wasn't even his best year). :facepalm

As I said, even with the better team, the Celtics struggled to beat a 37 win Hawks team and the Cavs. They didn't play a single 60 win team, while Wade and the Heat destroyed 2 60 win teams.

Hell, the Pistons and Mavs > all them teams that the Celtics played against in '08.


Wade 19 FGA per game.. 10.7 FT attempts per game

Kobe 27 FGA per game.. 10.3 FT attempts per game

:facepalm
Only 20% of Kobe's shots were at the rim, compared to 40% of Wade's. Stop being dense.

[dubeta]

I have to go with KG

didnt have a top 5 GOAT on his team

Went through LeBron's Cavs in a gruelling 7 game series

Won in a convincing 6 games without questionable officiating

[tpols]

Stop comparing Kobe to Wade.

:wtf: :oldlol:


Essentially what you're trying to say is that Kobe had 3 seasons which were better than '08 KG's (and that wasn't even his best year). .

Is that really absurd? KG is a top 15ish player of all time. 08 was KG's second best season. Saying a top 10 player of all time only had 3 seasons better than that isnt even far fetched.. Wade is a borderline top 20 all time. Garnett > Wade.

You wade stans are relentless. Wont stop til your boy is best at everything. :oldlol:

[dubeta]

:wtf: :oldlol:



Is that really absurd? KG is a top 15ish player of all time. 08 was KG's second best season. Saying a top 10 plaayer of all time only had 3 seasons better than that isnt even far fetched.

LeBron had like 8 seasons better than Kobe's best so LeBron = GOAT according to you?

[tpols]

LeBron had like 8 seasons better than Kobe's best so LeBron = GOAT according to you?

damn.. you free ?

Congrats on getting out brother.

[aj1987]

Is that really absurd? KG is a top 15ish player of all time. 08 was KG's second best season. Saying a top 10 player of all time only had 3 seasons better than that isnt even far fetched.. Wade is a borderline top 20 all time. Garnett > Wade.
:oldlol: @ KG being top 15. Dude is around 18-23 along with Wade.



You wade stans are relentless. Wont stop til your boy is best at everything. :oldlol:
You haters are worse though. Go back and read your earlier post. You compared Wade to ****ing Arenas.

Also, what are you even talking about. Can you stick to the topic?

[Papaya Petee]

Why are you guys wasting your time arguing with Tpols?

Hes a Kobe stan that hates Wade and nobody finds him credible when discussing Wade. :lol

Anyone with half a brain knows Wade was better.

[tpols]

Yup.. It's absolutely crazy to compare the second best version of KG.. The best mix of his athletic prime and vet leadership.. to the third best version of Dwayne Wade.

Sorry for even thinking KG is even close.. He's only won MVP over prime Kobe Shaq Duncan but Wade naaaah.. It Ain't close.

[JellyBean]

KG's was more impressive. The Big 3 came together an owned the league from the jump. Minus that hiccup against the Hawks and Bulls (game 7s), I gotta give the edge to KG.

[ThatCoolKid]

This whole all time ranking stuff is so absurd. If you would rather build a team around prime Wade than around prime KG you are a fking idiot, period.

[Dresta]

:wtf: :oldlol:



Is that really absurd? KG is a top 15ish player of all time. 08 was KG's second best season. Saying a top 10 player of all time only had 3 seasons better than that isnt even far fetched.. Wade is a borderline top 20 all time. Garnett > Wade.

You wade stans are relentless. Wont stop til your boy is best at everything. :oldlol:
:lol

Get outta here with your contradictory logic and blatant ignorance of the game of basketball. KG top 15? Get ****ing real. As if anyone is trying to make out Wade is the 'best at everything' anyway, only that Garnett's 08 playoff run was massively inferior in every statistical and logical sense that doesn't involve 'OMG the refs' or some other classic fatuity of yours. The only reason you are defending this kind of blatant untruth and idiocy is because Garnett's Celtics embarrassed Kobe, and you're just another pathetic stan with another childish agenda.

GROW

THE

****

UP


Thanks x

[Dresta]

Yup.. It's absolutely crazy to compare the second best version of KG.. The best mix of his athletic prime and vet leadership.. to the third best version of Dwayne Wade.

Sorry for even thinking KG is even close.. He's only won MVP over prime Kobe Shaq Duncan but Wade naaaah.. It Ain't close.
Nash only won mvp over prime Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, Wade, Bron etc.

Ergo, Nash >>>>>>>>>> Kobe

Otherwise why would Kobe IN HIS BEST YEAR still be so far inferior to Nash?

durp..

that is the logic you're using you magnificent imbecile. 2008 Garnett was nothing close to 2004 Garnett, and his playoff numbers and performances in 08 (which were average at best) show it unequivocally and unarguably. Stop arguing against the patently obvious because it is making you look a right ****ing fool.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Not sure how this thread went 6 pages long. Garnett was not even FMVP the year he won his ring, and you are comparing him with Wade, who led the Heat who were the underdogs big time against Dallas, from 0-2 to 4-2 averaging 34 ppg? There is no comparison here. Garnett was never in his career able to do what Wade did in 2006.

[tpols]

Nash only won mvp over prime Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, Wade, Bron etc.

Ergo, Nash >>>>>>>>>> Kobe

Otherwise why would Kobe IN HIS BEST YEAR still be so far inferior to Nash?

durp..

that is the logic you're using you magnificent imbecile. 2008 Garnett was nothing close to 2004 Garnett, and his playoff numbers and performances in 08 (which were average at best) show it unequivocally and unarguably. Stop arguing against the patently obvious because it is making you look a right ****ing fool.

Listen here you silly nancy chuffer! I say, you do have your facts in a quite the pickle!


To your first point.. Everyone knows kgs MVP was a bona-fide best player in the league award and not just an MVP of the Nash/Iverson/rose variety. Now you Quit your fagging around good sir!

To your second point. KG had the most efficient year of his career in 2008.. It was the only year in his prime he led the league in playoff and regular season defensive rating. He was given full reign as Boston defensive leader as he didn't have to focus on offense as heavily as when he was carrying shit teams in minny.. And it allowed him to have one of the most dominant defensive runs (along with being a 20+ppg scorer and double digit rebounder/great high post passer) in the past few decades. The 'stats' you've examined are mere surface information and don't capture the above.

Good day to you!

[CJ Mustard]

:bowdown: tpols educating these suckas!

KG's defensive impact can not be measured by basic/standard stats. The guy was Russell-like defensively all while being a consistent 20/10 player. He was dominant that year and would have netted another MVP trophy if he didn't get injured midseason.

Wish there more posters on this site who could analyze/interpret impact on the game on a deeper level like me and tpols.

[T_L_P]

:bowdown: tpols educating these suckas!

KG's defensive impact can not be measured by basic/standard stats. The guy was Russell-like defensively all while being a consistent 20/10 player. He was dominant that year and would have netted another MVP trophy if he didn't get injured midseason.

Wish there more posters on this site who could analyze/interpret impact on the game on a deeper level like me and tpols.

I feel like I do, and I think Wade's 06 Playoffs was better than KG's 08 Playoffs -- even more so when you consider how much weaker his team was, and the fact that his team didn't go to a game 7, while KG's team had two 7 game series, against a 37 win team and a 45 win team.

KG's regular season was definitely better (he was my second choice for MVP behind Paul). But just compare their Playoff production:

20/11/3/1/1 for KG on .542 TS%
28/6/6/2/1/ for Wade on .593 TS%

KG's defensive impact was so big that the two are almost inseparable. However, I trust 06-10 Wade in a Playoff run more than I do KG, because KG shooting 43% in a series and taking bad shots is bound to happen at least once (it basically happened in the Finals), and if he doesn't have such a strong cast behind him, it almost guarantees a Playoff exit.

Wade's bogus FTs in the Finals is definitely something to consider though. It's an interest comparison either way.

[mehyaM24]

KG's defensive impact was so big that the two are almost inseparable. However, I trust 06-10 Wade in a Playoff run more than I do KG, because KG shooting 43% in a series and taking bad shots is bound to happen at least once (it basically happened in the Finals), and if he doesn't have such a strong cast behind him, it almost guarantees a Playoff exit.

this post doesn't make sense. on one end, you claim kg's defensive impact was "big" and then then a few words later, talk about his FG% in a couple bad series. are you conveniently ignoring his rebounding, defense and passing?

we shouldn't be talking about casts either, because kg with the spurs wins at least 5 titles (he is more versatile and skilled than duncan).

[T_L_P]

this post doesn't make sense. on one end, you claim kg's defensive impact was "big" and then then a few words later, talk about his FG% in a couple bad series. are you conveniently ignoring his rebounding, defense and passing?

we shouldn't be talking about casts either, because kg with the spurs wins at least 5 titles (he is more versatile and skilled than duncan).

A balance needs to be struck between the two. In every year KG made the Playoffs from 98-08 he had have a very inefficient series -- which usually spelt the end of his season.

Imagine if the Celtics didn't have an offensive weapon like Allen (.708 TS% in the Finals) and they were facing a tougher opponent (08 Lakers were weak, Pau didn't have the 09-10 impact). They'd have lost. KG was always the defensive anchor on his teams but he didn't succeed (04 and 08) until there were two other great offensive options (in 08 he was the third best offensive piece). That's not easy to find.

Of course I can talk about casts you idiot. We're debating KG and Wade. Why is Duncan's name even being mentioned? :facepalm

:oldlol: at "versatility". History has shown that the greatest players are the ones who are dominant in a few areas. Not the ones who are good in a bunch of them.

Speaking of casts, the 09 Celtics (weaker than the 08 version) won a fcking Playoff series without KG, their best player, and they took the eventual Finalist, a 59 win Orlando team, to 7 games. I have every right to talk about casts here, because whenever Duncan's missed the Playoffs (2000), or played like shit (2010 WCSF, 2011), the Spurs have crashed out of the Playoffs (sweep, loss to 8th seed).

Why am I even debating with a troll? You call fat Shaq and his beastly 13/10 on .532 TS% the most valuable player on a title team. His own teammate scored nearly 3 times as many points as him in a series. And he was still near his prime. :roll:

[mehyaM24]

A balance needs to be struck between the two. In every year KG made the Playoffs from 98-08 he had have a very inefficient series -- which usually spelt the end of his season.

Imagine if the Celtics didn't have an offensive weapon like Allen (.708 TS% in the Finals)

:oldlol: at "versatility". History has shown that the greatest players are the ones who are dominant in a few areas. Not the ones who are good in a bunch of them.

Speaking of casts, the 09 Celtics (weaker than the 08 version) won a fcking Playoff series without KG, their best player, and they took the eventual Finalist, a 59 win Orlando team, to 7 games.

kg being "somewhat inefficient" in a FEW series had nothing to do with minnesota losing. kg just never had the fortune of playing with the GOAT coach and multple HOFers like your boy.

posting allen's shooting percentages don't mean anything. his scoring was average at best. allen by 2010 was a spot up shooter.

and yes - kg is: better from midrange, has better footwork, is a better passer and defender, does more with less, and is infinitely more vocal, hence a better leader.

who cares about the orlando series? they were one of the worst finalists in history.


I have every right to talk about casts here, because whenever Duncan's missed the Playoffs (2000), or played like shit (2010 WCSF, 2011), the Spurs have crashed out of the Playoffs (sweep, loss to 8th seed).
:facepalm

2000 had better competition out west. as for 2010 and 2011? funny that you're using duncan playing like shit as a PLUS.

anyone who watched the spurs those years realizes, he played like absolute garbage and was a non factor on both ends. you could argue he was the singular reason they lost those years.


Why am I even debating with a troll? You call fat Shaq and his beastly 13/10 on .532 TS% the most valuable player on a title team. His own teammate scored nearly 3 times as many points as him in a series. And he was still near his prime. :roll:

fat shaq? :oldlol: at least i've backed my opinions with stats and actual sources (dallas' headcoach, dwyane wade himself, and miami's teammates). all your posts come off as sensitive and whiny.

what you posted earlier sounded like double talk, and i took exception. no big deal.

[T_L_P]

kg being "somewhat inefficient" in a FEW series had nothing to do with minnesota losing. kg just never had the fortune of playing with the GOAT coach and multple HOFers like your boy.

posting allen's shooting percentages don't mean anything. his scoring was average at best. allen by 2010 was a spot up shooter.

and yes - kg is: better from midrange, has better footwork, is a better passer and defender, does more with less, and is infinitely more vocal, hence a better leader.

No, not somewhat inefficient in a series. Inefficient. He had plenty of offensive help in 04 (20/5/4/2/.521 TS% Sprewell and 17/3/4/.579 TS% Cassell). This was peak KG, and his series TS% goes like this:

.508 TS% in rd. 1 against the 13th ranked defense
.512 TS% in rd. 2 against the 21st ranked defense
.518 TS% in rd. 3 against the 7th ranked defense

And this was with KG being assisted on a lot more baskets than TD. So you can't say offensive help was the reason KG was inefficient and Duncan was not (his least efficient series was in 02 against the Lakers where he averaged 29/17/5/1/3 on .517 TS%. That was KG's most efficient).

Here is Rasho Nesterović on Duncan vs. KG as a leader:


Reporters question:

You played alongside the best two PFs of the last 15 years Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett who both won an MVP award and a championship ring. Who made a bigger impression on you?

Rasho:

I have to say Duncan. He is a true team leader. Garnett is a phenomenal player with great physical abilities but I don't think he is mentally strong enough to be a team leader. If he would have stayed in Minessota I don't think he would ever win a ring. He did the right move by going to Boston because there is Paul Pierce who is a true team leader that scores in clutch moments.

You like quotes. Go find me one of a teammate, past or present, saying anything like that about TD.


who cares about the orlando series? they were one of the worst finalists in history.


:facepalm

Yes, who cares that the Celtics were able to take a 60 win team to 7 games without their best player. :facepalm


2000 had better competition out west. as for 2010 and 2011? funny that you're using duncan playing like shit as a PLUS.

anyone who watched the spurs those years realizes, he played like absolute garbage and was a non factor on both ends. you could argue he was the singular reason they lost those years.

If you seriously think the 2000 Suns were stronger than the 2009 Magic, something is seriously wrong with you.

Here is the RAPM for 2010 and 2011:

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2010.html
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2011.html

Garbage on both ends. :roll:

He was garbage in the Playoffs. And, like I said, the Spurs crashed out. Meanwhile KG isn't even on the floor and his team is still competitive.


fat shaq? :oldlol: at least i've backed my opinions with stats and actual sources (dallas' headcoach, dwyane wade himself, and miami's teammates). all your posts come off as sensitive and whiny.

what you posted earlier sounded like double talk, and i took exception. no big deal.

Wade had the best PER, WS, WS/48, raw stats, and achievements on that 06 team. But yes, Shaq has the Avery Johnson quote.

LeBron called Duncan the most dominant player of the past 15 years. There's a quote. Surely you must agree? Shaq said Duncan could be labeled the GOAT. Agreed, right? Dirk called Duncan the GOAT PF. Agreed? Magic said Duncan has the best footwork of anyone he's ever seen. The Logo said Duncan has better court vision than a lot of guards.

Damn, these quotes keep on coming.

[CJ Mustard]

If you saw that Celtics/Magic series you'd know that the Celtics at no point looked like the better team. The Magic flat out choked away at least 2 games of that series. Not to mention the Celtics were a few shots away from being ousted in the first round by the Bulls that year.

A hobbled/post knee injury KG returned the next season and completely shutdown Rashard Lewis (who killed the C's the previous year) and the Celtics handily beat the Magic.