Better Player: Steve Nash vs Iverson

[LongLiveTheKing]

I saw this debate on Twitter. I'm leaning towards Nash. Who do you guys got?

[Real14]

:biggums:

[ArbitraryWater]

Nash any day of the week and twice on sundays.. just because

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nash....easily

[Real14]

Nash any day of the week and twice on sundays.. just because
:coleman:

[Real14]

yall some haters man:facepalm

[LongLiveTheKing]

Nash is a better shooter took smarter shots and made his team better. Iverson was better defender and scorer.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nash is a better shooter took smarter shots and made his team better. Iverson was better defender and scorer.

I don't think Iverson was a better scorer tbh :confusedshrug:

[Demitri98]

Nash. He was a great basketball player locked into the team mentality.

AI was just a baller.

[Real14]

Nash never led his team to the finals and he had better teammates than Iverson.

[Warfan]

I don't think Iverson was a better scorer tbh :confusedshrug:

:biggums:

[Real14]

I don't think Iverson was a better scorer tbh :confusedshrug:
REPORTED.

[Real14]

:biggums:
Exactly. These Lebron stans are getting worse and worse:facepalm

[ImKobe]

One is a ball hog that shot a horrible percentage on volume shots and ignored his teammates, gambled way too much on defense (To get steals)

Other is one of the greatest shooters of all-time, a gym rat, a guy that can run the offense and score in every possible way that doesn't involve dunking. Also, he's a great teammate.

Think I'm going with Nash here.

[ThatCoolKid]

Nash never led his team to the finals and he had better teammates than Iverson.

Iverson played in a historically weak conference.

[Bigsmoke]

I don't think Iverson was a better scorer tbh :confusedshrug:

Iverson is one of the best scorers ever and Nash... Isn't.

Nash had a better career and was a better player tho. No doubt

[Real14]

Iverson played in a historically weak conference.

again look at his teammates compared to nash. Iverson put that team on his back with potential d leaguers on his squad.

[Nowitness]

One is a ball hog that shot a horrible percentage on volume shots and ignored his teammates, gambled way too much on defense (To get steals)

Other is one of the greatest shooters of all-time, a gym rat, a guy that can run the offense and score in every possible way that doesn't involve dunking. Also, he's a great teammate.

Think I'm going with Nash here.

Yeah, cause he can post up.

At least AI gambled though. Nash is just a bad defender. Really bad.

[ArbitraryWater]

One is a ball hog that shot a horrible percentage on volume shots and ignored his teammates, gambled way too much on defense (To get steals)

Other is one of the greatest shooters of all-time, a gym rat, a guy that can run the offense and score in every possible way that doesn't involve dunking. Also, he's a great teammate.

Think I'm going with Nash here.

One of the greatest shooters, passers, AND ballhandlers... :bowdown:

[Real14]

Iverson is getting extremely underrated again.

[Nowitness]

again look at his teammates compared to nash. Iverson put that team on his back with potential d leaguers on his squad.

That 01 team was stacked on defense, and without then it would have been a second round exit (still, he had a series fixed in his favor).

[Real14]

Yeah, cause he can post up.

At least AI gambled though. Nash is just a bad defender. Really bad.

:applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Iverson is getting extremely underrated again.

Gotta stick with "your guy" here huh?

[Real14]

That 01 team was stacked on defense, and without then it would have been a second round exit (still, he had a series fixed in his favor).

Yea right bro. They were good defenders and all but not offensively. 04 pistons who were good defenders too but still had players that can score.

[ThatCoolKid]

again look at his teammates compared to nash. Iverson put that team on his back with potential d leaguers on his squad.

That 76ers team was really good defensively, playing in an absolutely shit conference.

[Real14]

Gotta stick with "your guy" here huh?
Nash was nice, but Iverson is the best player ever pound for pound man. I would say Nash is a better playmaker than Iverson though.

[j3lademaster]

AI was probably better but Nash is easier to build a winner around imo, especially in this age of 3 pt shooting.

AI is the 7th highest ppg player in NBA history. The next 6 footer to come up in all time ppg is Isiah Thomas at #72... and AI did it in one of the toughest defensive eras. A battered injury-ridden 30 year old AI put up 33/3/7.4 on .543 TS (which is decent for a perimeter scorer who's asked to be the entire offense) after the rule changes in '06. I'm not trying to put him in the Kobe/ Jordan tier in perimeter scorers, but damn AI gets no respect on Ish.

[Real14]

That 76ers team was really good defensively, playing in an absolutely shit conference.

That conference was not really that bad the way people make it out to be.

[ImKobe]

Yeah, cause he can post up.

At least AI gambled though. Nash is just a bad defender. Really bad.

Just looked up though, AI's career ORTG is lower than his DRTG :oldlol:

Nash made up for it on O, his ORTG during his prime was in the 120s and he led the league in TS% two years in a row, how many HOF PGs even have a career TS% of above 60? Stockton is the only one I can think of

Nash career 3pt% is higher than AI's FG% :kobe:

[j3lademaster]

That conference was not really that bad the way people make it out to be.That's what I thought but then I realized it was just beer goggles from watching the current Eastern conference.

[Bigsmoke]

again look at his teammates compared to nash. Iverson put that team on his back with potential d leaguers on his squad.

For Nash's defense, Nash never had a coach with a resume like Larry Brown.... Or George Karl even. Brown knew what he was doing. He wanted the sixers to be a defensive and rebounding juggernaut so they can stay in games whenever Iverson got cold. The sixers were actually 6-5 including beating the Jazz that year without Iverson

[Nowitness]

Just looked up though, AI's career ORTG is lower than his DRTG :oldlol:

Nash made up for it on O, his ORTG during his prime was in the 120s and he led the league in TS% two years in a row, how many HOF PGs even have a career TS% of above 60?

Nash career 3pt% is higher than AI's FG% :kobe:

I'm not saying AI is better. Just pointing out he can't score every way other than dunking, and he has no defense...

[Real14]

That's what I thought but then I realized it was just beer goggles from watching the current Eastern conference.

Exactly. Times are much different now.

[JohnnySic]

Iverson is arguably the best little man ever. Nash is.............not.

Same reason why some idiots rank Dirk ahead of Malone, Barkley, and KG. :banghead: What's more recent stands out more to those with short memories.

But give it time. History has a way of self-correcting these things.

In case you did not get all that, Iverson was better.

[ArbitraryWater]

Just looked up though, AI's career ORTG is lower than his DRTG :oldlol:

Nash made up for it on O, his ORTG during his prime was in the 120s and he led the league in TS% two years in a row, how many HOF PGs even have a career TS% of above 60?

Nash career 3pt% is higher than AI's FG% :kobe:

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/default/OhRlly.png

[Mass Debator]

yall some haters man:facepalm
Forreal

[Nowitness]

Iverson is arguably the best little man ever. Nash is.............not.

Same reason why some idiots rank Dirk ahead of Malone, Barkley, and KG. :banghead: What's more recent stands out more to those with short memories.

But give it time. History has a way of self-correcting these things.

In case you did not get all that, Iverson was better.

But Dirk is better than Malone and Barkley (career losers).

[Smoke117]

Nash. Iverson and his 27 shots to average 30 points has never impressed me.

[JohnnySic]

But Dirk is better than Malone and Barkley (career losers).
LOL, no.

[ImKobe]

Iverson is arguably the best little man ever. Nash is.............not.

Same reason why some idiots rank Dirk ahead of Malone, Barkley, and KG. :banghead: What's more recent stands out more to those with short memories.

But give it time. History has a way of self-correcting these things.

In case you did not get all that, Iverson was better.

This is basically black people crying racism. "AI changed the culture" "AI was the face of the league" :sleeping :sleeping :sleeping

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7olciB1jr1rb27sjo1_500.gif

AI's stats suck, Nash was more effective and ran an offense better than AI could ever dream of, was a better shooter and by all accounts a much better teammate, who was dedicated to the game and didn't take days off and managed to make a HOF career out of his regular white boy body (he could BARELY dunk at his athletic peak).

AI was wasted potential. If he didn't gamble for steals and cared about making his teammates better, winning championships...he would be where Kobe is or even better, but the fact is that he wasn't. For every great game he had, he had 2-3 games in a row that made you go :banghead: :banghead:, apologists say that he had horrible teams. Nikka, he got on the same team with prime Melo and lost in the first round and got traded for not adapting to the team, they replace him with Billups and the team goes to the WCF...AI was just wasted potential. People only want to remember the great moments he had but disregard all the bs he did on and off the court. When his shots weren't falling, he was a negative.

[Inactive]

I'd rather have Nash on my team.

Iverson was a much greater individual talent. If he approached the game with the same mindset as Nash, I would take him without thinking twice. Instead he had an undisciplined style in games, fought with coaches, got involved in off the court drama, and he wasn't a locker room leader, or a positive role model for young players.

[JohnnySic]

Dont forget that Iverson forced Stren's hand to implement a dress code and drove away scores of white fans with his general thuggery. That has to count for something, no?

not serious

[Cali Syndicate]

I'd rather have Nash on my team.

Iverson was a much greater individual talent. If he approached the game with the same mindset as Nash, I would take him without thinking twice. Instead he had an undisciplined style in games, fought with coaches, got involved in off the court drama, and he wasn't a locker room leader, or a positive role model for young players.

This.

And the obligatory.....practice? We talking bout practice, man. Not the actual game, we talking bout practice. Yes, iverson, we talking bout practice.

[Real14]

Dont forget that Iverson forced Stren's hand to implement a dress code and drove away scores of white fans with his general thuggery. That has to count for something, no?

not serious

Of course, Even Stern hated how Iverson was changing the culture.

[ImKobe]

Dont forget that Iverson forced Stren's hand to implement a dress code and drove away scores of white fans with his general thuggery. That has to count for something, no?

not serious

who cares

read thread title

white text fakkit

[Real14]

I'd rather have Nash on my team.

Iverson was a much greater individual talent. If he approached the game with the same mindset as Nash, I would take him without thinking twice. Instead he had an undisciplined style in games, fought with coaches, got involved in off the court drama, and he wasn't a locker room leader, or a positive role model for young players.

That's why Nash with great offensive role players never made the finals while Iverson with less than good offensive role players made the finals.

[StephHamann]

That's why Nash with great offensive role players never made the finals while Iverson with less than good offensive role players made the finals.

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[Real14]

For Nash's defense, Nash never had a coach with a resume like Larry Brown.... Or George Karl even. Brown knew what he was doing. He wanted the sixers to be a defensive and rebounding juggernaut so they can stay in games whenever Iverson got cold. The sixers were actually 6-5 including beating the Jazz that year without Iverson

George Karl's sonics had great offensive players man. If Larry Brown was all that great then why he couldn't do anything with the knicks or bobcats?:confusedshrug: Larry Brown was a great coach but please don't overrate him saying that Iverson had little to do with what happened in 01 man:facepalm .

[ImKobe]

That's why Nash with great offensive role players never made the finals while Iverson with less than good offensive role players made the finals.

Nash faced tougher competition in the West, fakkit. He should have gotten to the Finals and would have won it all in 07, if it weren't for the bullshit suspension on Amare and the hip-check by Horry, 2010 Nash led a worse version of the 07 Suns to the Conference Finals and it took Kobe playing like prime MJ to get past the Suns in 6 games with Game 6 coming down to the final minutes..

[Real14]

Nash faced tougher competition in the West, fakkit. He should have gotten to the Finals and would have won it all in 07, if it weren't for the bullshit suspension on Amare and the hip-check by Horry, 2010 Nash led a worse version of the 07 Suns to the Conference Finals and it took Kobe playing like prime MJ to get past the Suns in 6 games with Game 6 coming down to the final minutes..

Stop with the excuses man. If Nash had the same teammates Iverson had in 01, I guarantee you that Nash would not made it to the damn finals. Don't even deny it bro:no:

[Smoke117]

That's why Nash with great offensive role players never made the finals while Iverson with less than good offensive role players made the finals.

Because the Sixers defense had nothing to do with that...the aspect of the teams play that Iverson had little to do with.

[ImKobe]

Stop with the excuses man. If Nash had the same teammates Iverson had in 01, I guarantee you that Nash would not made it to the damn finals. Don't even deny it bro:no:

He would have made the Finals if he played in the East...

[Real14]

He would have made the Finals if he played in the East...
With that 01 team??

[Real14]

Because the Sixers defense had nothing to do with that...the aspect of the teams play that Iverson had little to do with.
yep and that's why he wasn't MVP that year either:rolleyes:

[Bigsmoke]

George Karl's sonics had great offensive players man. If Larry Brown was all that great then why he couldn't do anything with the knicks or bobcats?:confusedshrug: Larry Brown was a great coach but please don't overrate him saying that Iverson had little to do with what happened in 01 man:facepalm .

The Knicks and Bobcats didn't have any talent. God himself wouldn't have what it takes to lead those teams deep in the playoffs. BTW, I liked how you skipped the success he had in Detroit and went straight to his go arounds in NY and Charlotte.:lol

Larry Brown and George Karl had success without Iverson..... Mike Dantoni without Nash is Group Home without DJ Premier. Feel me?

[Droid101]

Nash was wayyyy better. What did Iverson do better? 1 on 1 crossovers?

Nash literally led I think what, 4 of the top 5 offenses in the history of the NBA. Not in the last 10 years, the entire history of the NBA.

[Real14]

The Knicks and Bobcats didn't have any talent. God couldn't even take those teams deep in the playoffs. liked how you skipped the success he had in Detroit and went straight to go arounds in NY and Charlotte.:lol

Knicks had talent don't even kid yourself:no: I didn't skipped his success, I did mentioned that he was a great coach. I said what I said because you are trying to make him better than what he is. Iverson deserves major credit for that 01 team. Even Larry Brown raves on how great Iverson was, especially in that season.

[Real14]

Nash was wayyyy better. What did Iverson do better? 1 on 1 crossovers?

.

:facepalm

[Bigsmoke]

Knicks had talent don't even kid yourself:no: I didn't skipped his success, I did mentioned that he was a great coach. I said what I said because you are trying to make him better than what he is. Iverson deserves major credit for that 01 team. Even Larry Brown raves on how great Iverson was, especially in that season.
:roll:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2006.html

That team was huff. Jamal Crawford as a #2 option?:rolleyes:


Stephon Marbury achieved a lot through his career

Oh yeah. That's a squad alright:rolleyes:

[houston]

a.i. wins this

[stalkerforlife]

Nash.

[Cold soul]

Nash. I would draft Nash over AI.

[Smoke117]

Nash. I would draft Nash over AI.

lol. Nobody would draft Nash over Iverson. The KKK would draft Iverson over Nash.

[Xiao Yao You]

Nash

[Genaro]

Iverson is the better player but I would like Nash better on my team.
I think AI is being underrated here thought. You can't hold his FG% against him when he played in a time that this wasn't viewed as important as nowadays, the defenses were better and he was the only offensive weapon on those Philla's teams.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Iverson and its not as close as some may think, ish was disappointing in this thread

[f0und]

the only thing underrated here is iverson's sixers team. people love to bash his team saying "ai took a bunch of nobodies to the finals". they werent a bunch of nobodies. they had the COY(brown), DPOY(deke), and 6th man of the year(mckie). and the rest of the cast was pretty sold. tyrone hill, george lynch, nazr mohammed, kevin ollie, theo ratliff, eric snow, toni kukoc

[Ai2death]

AI is criminally underrated on ISH,

But, but his fg %...
Man, if Nash received the defensive attention on offense that AI did, he would of shot a lot worse too. Truth is, AI was the one and only offensive threat on those 76er's teams. Opposing teams would watch game footage about how to stop Iverson, not the team, just Iverson. So AI, against a entire teams defense set out just to stop him, made the finals.

Now Nash, Nash is a great player too, but c'mon. His team was great offensively. The other team would need to stop the entire team, they had players who could create their own shot.

Nash was just another weapon on that team, Iverson was the only weapon.

Not hard to work out people.

A whole bunch of trolls up in here.

*Drops Mic*

[TheMarkMadsen]

Iverson fairly easily

[TheMarkMadsen]

the only thing underrated here is iverson's sixers team. people love to bash his team saying "ai took a bunch of nobodies to the finals". they werent a bunch of nobodies. they had the COY(brown), DPOY(deke), and 6th man of the year(mckie). and the rest of the cast was pretty sold. tyrone hill, george lynch, nazr mohammed, kevin ollie, theo ratliff, eric snow, toni kukoc

You named multiple people who weren't even on the playoff team & you even named a guy who played less than 6 minutes per game

:biggums: :biggums:

[IncarceratedBob]

If I want a sell jerseys. Iverson.

If I want to consistently lose in playoffs. Nash

[Rake2204]

AI is criminally underrated on ISH,

But, but his fg %...
Man, if Nash received the defensive attention on offense that AI did, he would of shot a lot worse too. Truth is, AI was the one and only offensive threat on those 76er's teams. Opposing teams would watch game footage about how to stop Iverson, not the team, just Iverson. So AI, against a entire teams defense set out just to stop him, made the finals.

Now Nash, Nash is a great player too, but c'mon. His team was great offensively. The other team would need to stop the entire team, they had players who could create their own shot.

Nash was just another weapon on that team, Iverson was the only weapon.

Not hard to work out people.

A whole bunch of trolls up in here.

*Drops Mic*If I were a player looking to be a part of a winning team and I had to choose Allen Iverson or Steve Nash as my teammate, I believe I would select Steve Nash. Regarding the bolded portion of quote, I actually believe Nash's team was so great offensively because of Steve Nash.

I feel Nash contributed many more aspects necessary to yield the best from his team. He was, by many accounts, a spectacular teammate, took care of the ball, fully understood tempo, was an expert passer (not just in terms of assists numbers, but how and when exactly to deliver the ball), an incredible shooter, and he could finish pretty well inside.

If I played alongside Nash, I think it'd be freeing. I trust he'd push me to fill lanes and would constantly award me by knowing exactly where I perform best with the ball and he'd deliver the rock at the precise moment required.

I picture playing alongside Iverson being a little different. I imagine being wowed by his athleticism, speed, and individual scoring ability. But I do not know if he could maximize a team's effectiveness as well as Nash, and I believe that is very important. If I were Iverson's teammate, I think I'd probably just end up in a role where I'd have to wait and be ready late in the shot clock just in case Iverson got in trouble.

I believe Iverson could pass when he wanted to (or more likely when he had to) but I think he was a super gunner at heart, so I think it could create a vicious cycle. Teams knew he wanted to shoot 30 times per game, so they locked in on him and dared him to try to get those attempts anyway. His teammates certainly could have been better, but I also feel Iverson could have made them better. And even with highly skilled teammates, I struggle to imagine prime, pre-Denver Iverson seriously curtailing his low percentage shot attempts for almost anyone.

[Ai2death]

If I were a player looking to be a part of a winning team and I had to choose Allen Iverson or Steve Nash as my teammate, I believe I would select Steve Nash. Regarding the bolded portion of quote, I actually believe Nash's team was so great offensively because of Steve Nash.

I feel Nash contributed many more aspects necessary to yield the best from his team. He was, by many accounts, a spectacular teammate, took care of the ball, fully understood tempo, was an expert passer (not just in terms of assists numbers, but how and when exactly to deliver the ball), an incredible shooter, and he could finish pretty well inside.

If I played alongside Nash, I think it'd be freeing. I trust he'd push me to fill lanes and would constantly award me by knowing exactly where I perform best with the ball and he'd deliver the rock at the precise moment required.

I picture playing alongside Iverson being a little different. I imagine being wowed by his athleticism, speed, and individual scoring ability. But I do not know if he could maximize a team's effectiveness as well as Nash, and I believe that is very important. If I were Iverson's teammate, I think I'd probably just end up in a role where I'd have to wait and be ready late in the shot clock just in case Iverson got in trouble.

I believe Iverson could pass when he wanted to (or more likely when he had to) but I think he was a super gunner at heart, so I think it could create a vicious cycle. Teams knew he wanted to shoot 30 times per game, so they locked in on him and dared him to try to get those attempts anyway. His teammates certainly could have been better, but I also feel Iverson could have made them better. And even with highly skilled teammates, I struggle to imagine prime, pre-Denver Iverson seriously curtailing his low percentage shot attempts for almost anyone.

Repped,

Yeah i see exactly what you're saying, i'm mainly stating i would pick Iverson over Nash. Nash would be easier to fit the team no doubt. But i believe Iverson is the greater individual talent.

Thanks for given a reasonable answer.

:cheers:

I also like how you mentioned pre-Denver Iverson. Iverson in Denver become a lot more selective with his shot.

[Rake2204]

Repped,

Yeah i see exactly what you're saying, i'm mainly stating i would pick Iverson over Nash. Nash would be easier to fit the team no doubt. But i believe Iverson is the greater individual talent.

Thanks for given a reasonable answer.

:cheers:Good stuff. It's always tough when a great player is pitted against a great player like this.

[bdreason]

My heart says AI and my head says Nash. I'll leave it at that.

[Element]

Nash on the 01 Sixers probably doesn't even get them to the ECF

Prime AI in today's PnR-oriented, no-handcheck league is a 30 ppg/4 rpg/7 apg @+2-3 TS% player waiting to happen

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

AI by far
he put up 26/7 46% shooting on an offensive system in Denver.........imagine if he had Phoenix and their medical staff which made Nashs career:biggums: :biggums:

[HylianNightmare]

ai

[TheReal Kendall]

If I was building a team I would go with Nash.

He embodies what I stand for and like to see on the court.(His defense needs work though.)

[VIP2000]

AI by far
he put up 26/7 46% shooting on an offensive system in Denver.........imagine if he had Phoenix and their medical staff which made Nashs career:biggums: :biggums:

If Phoenix's staff and personnel was so good, then why didn't Marbury take them anywhere? And Nash was a 2-time All-Star even before he joined the Suns.

[Cold soul]

lol. Nobody would draft Nash over Iverson. The KKK would draft Iverson over Nash.

As far as we know today and how both their careers played out? Not so sure about that.

[Mure]

Nash and it isn't close.

[Rolando]

The Answer is The Answer.

The votes should be counted because this is a decent question.

[Bigsmoke]

AI cool but Nash is that wigga

[L.Kizzle]

Both were drafted in 1996.

It would have been laughed upon if you compared these guys from 1996-2004.

I like Nash but Nash from 04-08 (or 10 I guess) is not enough to take over Iverson who was balling from his rookie season until he got traded to the Pistons.

[LongLiveTheKing]

AI is criminally underrated on ISH,

But, but his fg %...
Man, if Nash received the defensive attention on offense that AI did, he would of shot a lot worse too. Truth is, AI was the one and only offensive threat on those 76er's teams. Opposing teams would watch game footage about how to stop Iverson, not the team, just Iverson. So AI, against a entire teams defense set out just to stop him, made the finals.

Now Nash, Nash is a great player too, but c'mon. His team was great offensively. The other team would need to stop the entire team, they had players who could create their own shot.

Nash was just another weapon on that team, Iverson was the only weapon.

Not hard to work out people.

A whole bunch of trolls up in here.

*Drops Mic*
The reason they were so great offensively was because of Nash.

[ai9]

the only thing underrated here is iverson's sixers team. people love to bash his team saying "ai took a bunch of nobodies to the finals". they werent a bunch of nobodies. they had the COY(brown), DPOY(deke), and 6th man of the year(mckie). and the rest of the cast was pretty sold. tyrone hill, george lynch, nazr mohammed, kevin ollie, theo ratliff, eric snow, toni kukoc

:biggums:

Nazr Mohammed, Ratliff and Kukoc were traded for Mutombo.

[Stringer Bell]

the only thing underrated here is iverson's sixers team. people love to bash his team saying "ai took a bunch of nobodies to the finals". they werent a bunch of nobodies. they had the COY(brown), DPOY(deke), and 6th man of the year(mckie). and the rest of the cast was pretty sold. tyrone hill, george lynch, nazr mohammed, kevin ollie, theo ratliff, eric snow, toni kukoc

That Sixer team definitely gets underrated/overly-criticized.

They were a very good defensive team and had the right players to surround Iverson with to suit his style.

Their defense was a big part of their success. Which is why they still won games, or were highly competitive, in which Iverson shot terribly.

They won a game against Milwaukee in the ECF with Iverson going 5-27. 5 for 27.

[FatComputerNerd]

This is a really tough comparison since the two were such different types of players.

Both were great at what they did. Obviously Nash was the better pure PG, and better shooter, but AI did almost everything else better, and was a much more dominant player overall IMO.

Also, don't forget his FG % would probably be much higher if his game wasn't largely based on getting to the line so much. He is listed at #14 all-time in the NBA for free-throw attempts. Nash is #201.

[bizil]

I gotta go with AI on this one, even though Nash really put his own EPIC TWIST on the pass first floor general PG. Nash had great handles, great dimes (up there with Magic, Isiah, Kidd, and Pistol Pete in terms of passing flair), and was among the great shooters of all time. But with that said, AI, Zeke, and Tiny are in the own class in terms of little guards (guards 6'3 and under). Peak AI was pound for pound the best player of all time. That pound for pound title basically means who is the best player 6'3 and under. They say West was 6'4 so he doesn't count. But after AI, Zeke, and Tiny, I think Paul and Nash are next in line.

[ThatCoolKid]

This is a really tough comparison since the two were such different types of players.

Both were great at what they did. Obviously Nash was the better pure PG, and better shooter, but AI did almost everything else better, and was a much more dominant player overall IMO.

Also, don't forget his FG % would probably be much higher if his game wasn't largely based on getting to the line so much. He is listed at #14 all-time in the NBA for free-throw attempts. Nash is #201.

If you're getting fouled more, it means that you get a bunch of chances to make buckets with no chances to miss.

Getting fouled means your FG % goes up, not down.

[FatComputerNerd]

If you're getting fouled more, it means that you get a bunch of chances to make buckets with no chances to miss.

Getting fouled means your FG % goes up, not down.

Not with the way AI played.

He would just drive to the hoop every time, taking heavy contact and not necessarily making the shot, but getting them at the line. It was sort of his MO when he was in his heyday.

FT attempts are not included in FG % but a missed shot that you get fouled on still lowers your FG %.

Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[ILLsmak]

You named multiple people who weren't even on the playoff team & you even named a guy who played less than 6 minutes per game

:biggums: :biggums:

Not to mention none of them could hit a J.

I said this in another thread, but I was watching the sixers classic 01 games on NBAtv and on some real shit, if Iverson didn't get a touch on offense, they would almost never make the shot. Dudes like Eric Snow would blow fast break lay ups.

Tyrone Hill was pretty good in the post. Deke was pretty good in the post. I mean, these weren't garbage guys, but in terms of a Finals team or even a good playoff team get the **** out.

Imagine AI with a go-to big it'd be over. Put AI on the Suns. They would be better. You don't think he'd dump it off to Amare? Or other dudes for threes?

Show me the evidence that AI can't run a team.

Whatttsssuppppp ISSHHHH...

Edit: @ everyone saying they were the perfect team for AI... nah. Shooters. No team can be perfect without knock down shooters. If you could magically give every one of those guards/wings a .400 3 point shot, they would have probably won the championship. PLus in that case AI's stats go way up.

-Smak

[Bigsmoke]

Nash on the 01 Sixers probably doesn't even get them to the ECF

Prime AI in today's PnR-oriented, no-handcheck league is a 30 ppg/4 rpg/7 apg @+2-3 TS% player waiting to happen

Nash would have actually coexist with Stackhouse and Derrick Coleman

[Real14]

Iverson and its not as close as some may think, ish was disappointing in this thread
Exactly:facepalm

[Real14]

Iverson was stronger than nash too. Iverson played through countless injuries and still led a bad offensive team to the finals. Would Nash play through countless injuries and still be productive??

[ThatCoolKid]

Iverson was stronger than nash too. Iverson played through countless injuries and still led a bad offensive team to the finals. Would Nash play through countless injuries and still be productive??

Lol you goon

http://seattletimes.com/ABPub/2007/05/06/2003696251.jpg

[Real14]

Lol you goon

http://seattletimes.com/ABPub/2007/05/06/2003696251.jpg
Niguh I said countless injuries. Iverson still played great with multiple injuries at the same time man.

[knicksman]

Ai vs nash is a prime ex. Of style vs substance or stats vs result. Its like comparing bran(score first pg) to magic(pure). Stat says ai/bran wins it but result speaks otherwise. But of course most of the posters doesnt have any idea about this game beyond stats.lol

[Real14]

Ai vs nash is a prime ex. Of style vs substance or stats vs result. Its like comparing bran(score first pg) to magic(pure). Stat says ai/bran wins it but result speaks otherwise. But of course most of the posters doesnt have any idea about this game beyond stats.lol
Results?:biggums: I didn't know Nash went to the finals:confusedshrug:

[backb0ard]

Let's be honest AI 76ers wouldn't make it to the finals any year from the 00s in the west either. I'd be surprised if they make it to WCF.

[knicksman]

Results?:biggums: I didn't know Nash went to the finals:confusedshrug:
Leastern conference tho. I woudnt b surprised if ai wud hav 1 playof apearanc f hes on d west. And worse is dat its an early frst round exit

[Optimus Prime]

Iverson played in a historically weak conference.

So has LeBron. :confusedshrug:

It's actually a lot closer than you would think, and I can't believe I'm saying this as I used to be a huge AI detractor back in the day. When you look back now, I would say that AI looks better.

It's very obvious that Steve Nash was the product of a system; a system that inflates everyone's numbers and makes everyone look better. Despite leading "one of the best offenses ever" and being surrounded by talent, those Nash-led Suns teams never made the Finals. Not once. Nash's back-to-back MVPs are also probably the worst MVP selections in NBA history.

When you look at what AI was able to do, with his size and the lack of talent around him almost his entire career, it is pretty phenomenal. That 01 Sixers team wasn't terrible, but it literally had no one who could reliably score outside of AI. He single-handily stopped that historic Kobe and Shaq Lakers team from a perfect postseason run. Yes, the 01 Sixers were pretty good on defense, but it doesn't matter if you have a great defense but can't score more points than the other team. AI was required to "make it happen" night after night, and he did.

Then we get to the intangibles such as leadership, personality, off-the-court stuff, etc. It's obvious that Nash would be the better teammate overall. However, after every game with AI, you would know he played his guts out and left everything out there on the court. Every single night. We're not talking about practice; we're talking about a game, and you have to respect that.

It's pretty unbelievable that AI and Nash are even close enough in terms of careers for consideration, but the ignorance and outright lack of respect for AI by kids on ISH today is ridiculous. It's like the complete opposite of when I first joined ISH and everyone was going on and on about AI and TMac, and now AI is continually getting trashed here at ISH. Amazing.

:kobe:

[Inactive]

Not with the way AI played.

He would just drive to the hoop every time, taking heavy contact and not necessarily making the shot, but getting them at the line. It was sort of his MO when he was in his heyday.

FT attempts are not included in FG % but a missed shot that you get fouled on still lowers your FG %.

Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken.If you get fouled, and miss a shot, it doesn't count as a FGA. It's only recorded as a FGA if you make the shot.

[VIP2000]

That 01 Sixers team wasn't terrible, but it literally had no one who could reliably score outside of AI.

The reason why AI had no other go-to scorers on that Finals team was because AI couldn't co-exist with other volume scorers. They tried it with Stackhouse, Derrick Coleman, Glenn Robinson, Keith Van Horn, and all those guys were exiled after like a season. So the next best step is to surround with him with a bunch of excellent defenders and let AI carry the offensive load. You put AI and Carmelo on the same team and they were eliminated in the first round every year in 5 games or less. Replace AI with Billups and they suddenly get to the WCF.

AI was the better individual talent, but if I wanted to build a winning team, I would go with Nash.

[ai9]

The reason why AI had no other go-to scorers on that Finals team was because AI couldn't co-exist with other volume scorers. They tried it with Stackhouse, Derrick Coleman, Glenn Robinson, Keith Van Horn, and all those guys were exiled after like a season. So the next best step is to surround with him with a bunch of excellent defenders and let AI carry the offensive load. You put AI and Carmelo on the same team and they were eliminated in the first round every year in 5 games or less. Replace AI with Billups and they suddenly get to the WCF.

AI was the better individual talent, but if I wanted to build a winning team, I would go with Nash.

Iverson's not really the type to elevate his teammates to the next level, but saying he could not co-exist with other scorers is not quite true. With the exception of maybe Stackhouse, those other "scorers" you mentioned were not really legit go to guys. Derrick Coleman and Glenn Robinson were both old and lazy, and since when was Keith Van Horn a go to guy??

When Iverson went to an actually decent offensive team in Denver, his efficiency shot up and he was averaging 26 points on 18 shots a game. He shot about 10 fewer shots a game and still averaged close to 30 points. AI and Melo co-existed, and Denver could score with the best of them, but the problem was Denver's defense.

[FatComputerNerd]

If you get fouled, and miss a shot, it doesn't count as a FGA. It's only recorded as a FGA if you make the shot.

Did not realize that. Thx for the correction.

[DatAsh]

I've got to take Nash here. Arguably a top 7 offensive player, and I don't generally see defense as all that vital for a great point guard.

[ThatCoolKid]

Did not realize that. Thx for the correction.

Now apologize to me for being wrong.

[Fire Colangelo]

Leaning towards Iverson on this one.

[oarabbus]

Nash is better. To the people saying "Nash wouldn't have made the finals with those Sixers" of course, that team was built around AI. But you think AI would have made the WCF with Nash's suns? No way.

If you think Shawn Marion is a 20ppg guy playing next to AI, you're delusional. If you think Amar'e gets 26ppg if Iverson is at point, you're delusional. Iverson would reduce them to cleanup men. If you think this is even a little bit debatable please go back and watch clips of the Nash suns and the kind of looks Stoudemire, Marion, Thomas, etc was getting from Nash. Everyone on that team was getting insane looks because of Nash. Nash may not have made finals on that specific Sixers team, but build that sixers team around him (which they would have done) or place him on some other East teams and he goes to the finals no question.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

the only thing underrated here is iverson's sixers team. people love to bash his team saying "ai took a bunch of nobodies to the finals". they werent a bunch of nobodies. they had the COY(brown), DPOY(deke), and 6th man of the year(mckie). and the rest of the cast was pretty sold. tyrone hill, george lynch, nazr mohammed, kevin ollie, theo ratliff, eric snow, toni kukoc

Look at all the guys who have won SMOTY in the last 10-15 years and tell me Aaron McKee isn't the worst of them

[Ai2death]

Nash is better. To the people saying "Nash wouldn't have made the finals with those Sixers" of course, that team was built around AI. But you think AI would have made the WCF with Nash's suns? No way.

If you think Shawn Marion is a 20ppg guy playing next to AI, you're delusional. If you think Amar'e gets 26ppg if Iverson is at point, you're delusional. Iverson would reduce them to cleanup men. If you think this is even a little bit debatable please go back and watch clips of the Nash suns and the kind of looks Stoudemire, Marion, Thomas, etc was getting from Nash. Everyone on that team was getting insane looks because of Nash. Nash may not have made finals on that specific Sixers team, but build that sixers team around him (which they would have done) or place him on some other East teams and he goes to the finals no question.

I don't remember Denver turning into clean up men?

Also, the Suns were built around Nash, and he still couldn't make the finals.

So basically what you have said here is blah blah blah,
Iverson with a team built around him made finals, Nash with a team built around him didn't make finals blah blah.

All you did was prove that defense is what wins games in the playoffs.

[oarabbus]

I don't remember Denver turning into clean up men?

Also, the Suns were built around Nash, and he still couldn't make the finals.

So basically what you have said here is blah blah blah,
Iverson with a team built around him made finals, Nash with a team built around him didn't make finals blah blah.

All you did was prove that defense is what wins games in the playoffs.

Conveniently ignoring how much better the West was than the East then...

[I<3NBA]

Iverson single handedly gave the Lakers their only loss in the playoffs. think of that. he virtually stopped the Lakers' record of a perfect playoff run.

this is the Lakers with prime Shaq...
prime Shaq!

[kurple]

Nash is better. To the people saying "Nash wouldn't have made the finals with those Sixers" of course, that team was built around AI. But you think AI would have made the WCF with Nash's suns? No way.

If you think Shawn Marion is a 20ppg guy playing next to AI, you're delusional. If you think Amar'e gets 26ppg if Iverson is at point, you're delusional. Iverson would reduce them to cleanup men. If you think this is even a little bit debatable please go back and watch clips of the Nash suns and the kind of looks Stoudemire, Marion, Thomas, etc was getting from Nash. Everyone on that team was getting insane looks because of Nash. Nash may not have made finals on that specific Sixers team, but build that sixers team around him (which they would have done) or place him on some other East teams and he goes to the finals no question.
Well there is more to basketball than passing, and improving your teammates stats

and the guy using the AI-Billups trade as a reason to discredit AI is a moron. That is on Billups greatness, how the team was built with AI, and replacing Bamby with and healthy Nene and Birdman

as well as Melo taking his game to another level. not just running, dunking and chucking

[kurple]

AI was at least a part of a great defense. thats more than you can say about Nash.

[fourkicks44]

He threw everything at everyone. No matter how big, no matter their rep, on court and off. Himself all the time, on court and off. Never scared, and if he was you never could tell. So long our proud city had waited, waited not only for glory again, but someone... a hero. He fit the mold. A real Balboa, someone that personified the town, the people and our dreams. Too short, too small, too selfish, too grimy, too black.... the underdog. He was different, special, gifted, the player that only comes around once in a generation, you knew this from the beginning. You knew that something was going to happen...

It started to fall in place. It came as quick as it vanished. It was always fun, but then came the W's. It wasn't till the all-star game it set it in. This maybe it. It didn't matter what was going on in Houston, cause he was really the franchise.

He took them there against the arch enemy, Hollywood. Mission impossible, with all Tom Cruise's friends looking on. But he believed, and he made us all believe too. And just for one moment we were the best in the world.... I can't describe how I felt, but god damn it felt good. I'm sure any other Sixers fan will testify... just try and picture it.....

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/AI-3.jpg

[knicksman]

I don't remember Denver turning into clean up men?

Also, the Suns were built around Nash, and he still couldn't make the finals.

So basically what you have said here is blah blah blah,
Iverson with a team built around him made finals, Nash with a team built around him didn't make finals blah blah.

All you did was prove that defense is what wins games in the playoffs.

Actually it proves how stupid you are.lol poor mans(kidd) nash made it twice in that pathetic conference. And how many 50+ win teams ai had? Only 1. Lol

[knicksman]

Well there is more to basketball than passing, and improving your teammates stats

and the guy using the AI-Billups trade as a reason to discredit AI is a moron. That is on Billups greatness, how the team was built with AI, and replacing Bamby with and healthy Nene and Birdman

as well as Melo taking his game to another level. not just running, dunking and chucking

Lol improving your teammates stats/chemistry/teamwork is the most important in basketball. And thats the reason why billups/nash are winners while ai is a career loser despite superior stats. Because he is a chemistry killer

[kurple]

Lol improving your teammates stats/chemistry/teamwork is the most important in basketball. And thats the reason why billups/nash are winners while ai is a career loser despite superior stats. Because he is a chemistry killer
how is nash a winner? what has he won? an MVP? isnt that an INDIVIDUAL award?

how bout making your teammates better on the defensive end?

and i wouldnt say Nash improves the team chemestry or teamwork better than AI, they are just very different players

[knicksman]

how is nash a winner? what has he won? and MVP? isnt that an INDIVIDUAL award?

how bout making your teammates better on the defensive end?

and i wouldnt say Nash improves the team chemestry or teamwork better than AI, they are just very different players

Nash has multiple 50+, and even 60+ compared to ai's 1 despite in a super weak conference.. even kidd who wanted to be nash made it twice.


Most coaches dont want ai. I guess you could be a great coach in the nba

[kurple]

wow, 50+ wins. how many finals apperances does Nash have again?

[Silverbullit]

Iverson single handedly gave the Lakers their only loss in the playoffs. think of that. he virtually stopped the Lakers' record of a perfect playoff run.

this is the Lakers with prime Shaq...
prime Shaq!

In Game 1 of the Finals AI jacked up 41 shots...

The main reason for the win was the performance of the benches....Lakers bench had 15 points in 68 minutes of playing time, 76ers bench had 29 points in
67 minutes.

[kurple]

Most coaches dont want ai.
how do you know this? there was a difference between prime AI and detroit past his prime AI

[kurple]

In Game 1 of the Finals AI jacked up 41 shots...

The main reason for the win was the performance of the benches....Lakers bench had 15 points in 68 minutes of playing time, 76ers bench had 29 points in
67 minutes.
AI took 41 shots but the main reason was the bench? hmm

its a team effort. maybe AI is the greatest of all time at motivating his teammates on the bench

[knicksman]

wow, 50+ wins. how many finals apperances does Nash have again?
You know you have low iq if you think those nash led teams couldnt make it to the finals in that pathetic conference

[stanlove1111]

wow, 50+ wins. how many finals apperances does Nash have again?

I hate simplistic reasoning like this. Nashes teams as a whole during his career did much better then Iversons and mostly because of Nash. But you want to through this out because one year in his entire career Iverson's team made it one step farther then Nashes did a few times...

Goofy argument..Obviously Nash added more value as a whole to a basketball team.

[knicksman]

how do you know this? there was a difference between prime AI and detroit past his prime AI

Brown didnt like ai

[Silverbullit]

AI took 41 shots but the main reason was the bench? hmm

its a team effort. maybe AI is the greatest of all time at motivating his teammates on the bench

Bench player (Eric Snow) sent game to overtime...after AI missing his last 4 shots in regulation...

[kurple]

Bench player (Eric Snow) sent game to overtime...after AI missing his last 4 shots in regulation...
nice, eric snow is an underrated s.o.b

does that mean that Nash is better? No.

[Nashty]

To all that is saying Iverson just read this two articles.

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/10/6/its-all-about-the-ws-steve-nash.html

http://www.behindthebasket.com/btb/2011/9/25/its-all-about-the-ws-allen-iverson.html