Top 3 Scorers and Top 3 PER leaders in NBA history

[dubeta]

All-time PPG ranking

1. Michael Jordan 30.12 ppg
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07 ppg
3. LeBron James 27.52 ppg


All time Player Efficiency Rating Rank

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43



Notice a trend?


The 2 GOATs MJ and LeBron

:bowdown: :applause: :applause:

[imdaman99]

What about his 40% Finals winning percentage?

[JT123]

What about his 40% Finals winning percentage?
Finals win percentage is a team stat, silly Knicks fan. A very misleading one at that, seeing as how Wade and Bosh sabotaged the last Finals out of jealousy.

[dubeta]

What about his 40% Finals winning percentage?

weak response


2/68

[NZStreetBaller]

We going to judge players goat status on 1 stat??? :facepalm

[NZStreetBaller]

All-time PPG ranking

1. Michael Jordan 30.12 ppg
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07 ppg
3. LeBron James 27.52 ppg


All time Player Efficiency Rating Rank

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43



Notice a trend?


The 2 GOATs MJ and LeBron

:bowdown: :applause: :applause:

there can only be 1 GOAT.... otherwise you might as well say lebron wilt shaq and jordan

the 4 GOATs!!!

Or write your top 10 then say the 10 GOATs

or top 100 and say the 100 GOATs

notice a trend??

[tpols]

weak response


2/5

fixed.

[dubeta]

there can only be 1 GOAT.... otherwise you might as well say lebron wilt shaq and jordan

the 4 GOATs!!!

Or write your top 10 then say the 10 GOATs

or top 100 and say the 100 GOATs

notice a trend??

CO-GOATS

[Droid101]

Finals win percentage is a team stat,.
That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

[dubeta]

That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

reported for unnecessary trolling

[ThatCoolKid]

That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

PER would take into account those things.

How does it feel knowing Kobe is worse than a balding, obsequious, choker?

[Nowitness]

Need to cut that PER in half

the best player in lebron's conference that he goes up against is paul george. :oldlol:

the west opponents are obviously better. but still nothing compared to early 2k shaq, dirk, duncan, kobe, nash, kidd, webber, kg, tmac

but why mention the west when lebron is 2/5 against them. including 2 of the 3 worst finals ever?

[tpols]

PER would take into account those things.

How does it feel knowing Kobe is worse than a balding, obsequious, choker?

Actually it doesnt. The OP listed numbers that had none of the numbers the poster you quoted included. Please try again.

[ProfessorMurder]

That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

:oldlol: Seriously man, that is beyond terrible. Those stats me smile every time I see it.

[Magic 32]

All-time PPG ranking

1. Michael Jordan 30.12 ppg
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07 ppg
3. LeBron James 27.52 ppg


All time Player Efficiency Rating Rank

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43



Notice a trend?


The 2 GOATs MJ and LeBron

:bowdown: :applause: :applause:

Why don't you let Lebron decline before you post these stats?

[dubeta]

Need to cut that PER in half

the best player in lebron's conference that he goes up against is paul george. :oldlol:

the west opponents are obviously better. but still nothing compared to early 2k shaq, dirk, duncan, kobe, nash, kidd, webber, kg, tmac

but why mention the west when lebron is 2/5 against them. including 2 of the 3 worst finals ever?

The best defences are in the East :hammerhead:

so we need to multiply LeBrons by 2

[oarabbus]

The best defences are in the East :hammerhead:

so we need to multiply LeBrons by 2


That's just a myth, they just can't score out East so it seems like the D is better

[Magic 32]

The best defences are in the East :hammerhead:

so we need to multiply LeBrons by 2

http://images.cdn.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/93938773/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/Patrick_Mills.JPG

[NZStreetBaller]

The best defences are in the East :hammerhead:

so we need to multiply LeBrons by 2

Do you want to be friends Dubeta??

[dubeta]

That's just a myth, they just can't score out East so it seems like the D is better

Eastern teams play 52 games vs the East and 30 vs the West

Thats a difference but its not huge

Its still a good enough ratio so that you cant make the 'they cant score' since about 37% of the time they are facing a Western team


Its not like they only play themselves

[Pushxx]

Another thread using one of the most arbitrary "advanced" statistics in professional sports, PER.

Great!

[NZStreetBaller]

The best defences are in the East :hammerhead:

so we need to multiply LeBrons by 2

then how come lebron dominates the east but gets smoked by the west. Minus 2 times

[oarabbus]

Eastern teams play 52 games vs the East and 30 vs the West

Thats a difference but its not huge

Its still a good enough ratio so that you cant make the 'they cant score' since about 37% of the time they are facing a Western team


Its not like they only play themselves


Yeah and they get destroyed on those 30 games vs the West :oldlol: all their records are inflated because they're beating up on crap east teams

[dubeta]

then how come lebron dominates the east but gets smoked by the west. Minus 2 times

he lost 3 times

2 of those times he basically didnt have a team (1 vs 5) so noone in NBA history could have won those

1 time he was betrayed by his teammate

How can you blame him?

[oarabbus]

he lost 3 times

2 of those times he basically didnt have a team (1 vs 5) so noone in NBA history could have won those

1 time he was betrayed by his teammate

How can you blame him?

I'm not blaming him I'm just laughing at the suggestion that the East wasn't utter shit last year

[ballinhun8]

What's "PER"?

[dubeta]

I'm not blaming him I'm just laughing at the suggestion that the East wasn't utter shit last year

thats 1 year

2013- Eastern team wins the finals
2012- Eastern team wins the finals
2011- East team had HCA in the finals
2010- 7 game Finals, East was up 3-2
2009- East team had the best record in the NBA
2008- East team had the best record and won the championship

People are putting too much stock in 2014, and use that to suggest LeBrons basically been playing in the D League for his career :facepalm

[Magic 32]

thats 1 year

2013- Eastern team wins the finals
2012- Eastern team wins the finals
2011- East team had HCA in the finals
2010- 7 game Finals, East was up 3-2
2009- East team had the best record in the NBA
2008- East team had the best record and won the championship

People are putting too much stock in 2014, and use that to suggest LeBrons basically been playing in the D League for his career :facepalm

Top heavy?

Who to blame.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ycbjULEIXNY/UHm9WYDfAkI/AAAAAAAAAro/ljs9hi5DkNg/s640/GT.jpg

[pauk]

:applause:

[dubeta]

Do you want to be friends Dubeta??
Pm me for friendship details

[Mr. Jabbar]

What about his 40% Finals winning percentage?

:roll:

[Timmy D for MVP]

thats 1 year

2013- Eastern team wins the finals
2012- Eastern team wins the finals
2011- East team had HCA in the finals
2010- 7 game Finals, East was up 3-2
2009- East team had the best record in the NBA
2008- East team had the best record and won the championship

People are putting too much stock in 2014, and use that to suggest LeBrons basically been playing in the D League for his career :facepalm

Interesting. Here's my take:

2013- 38-44 team makes playoffs
2012- 35-31 team makes playoffs (yay better that .500!) :applause:
2011- 37-45 team makes playoffs
2010- 41-41 team makes playoffs (.500 AGAIN!) :bowdown:
2009- 39-43 team makes playoffs
2008- 37-45 team makes playoffs

In many of those seasons the 5th seed in the East wouldn't have made the playoffs in the West. It is inarguable that the East has been far weaker than the West.

[bdreason]

LeBron is going to need a lot more hardware if he wants to enter the GOAT conversation.

[BigBoss]

All-time PPG ranking

1. Michael Jordan 30.12 ppg
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07 ppg
3. LeBron James 27.52 ppg


All time Player Efficiency Rating Rank

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43



Notice a trend?


The 2 GOATs MJ and LeBron

:bowdown: :applause: :applause:


Yeah because 20 years from now people will give a $hit about PER :roll:

The Black Mamba 5 rings > LeBald " Saddam Hussein" James 2 rings

[BuffaloBill]

That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg


Good god. One of the worst performances of all time

[ImKobe]

Finals win percentage is a team stat, silly Knicks fan. A very misleading one at that, seeing as how Wade and Bosh sabotaged the last Finals out of jealousy.

What about 2011? Wade and Bosh showed up, Lebron didn't. Was that the TEAM's fault as well? Silly boy. And would have lost in 2013 as well if the TEAM didn't show up at the end of Game 6, when Lebron had back-to-back turnovers and missed 2 out of 3 threes.

At least when Kobe or Duncan lost, you couldn't blame it on them single-handedly. Lebron's 2011 Finals choke is the worst by ANY superstar. We're not talking about one bad shooting night or a crucial mistake in a must-win game, we're talking averaging 18 ppg AND having an 8-point Finals game, horrible 4th quarter numbers EVERY game against a much older team, getting sonned by Jason ****ing Terry.

[IMObjective]

All-time PPG ranking

1. Michael Jordan 30.12 ppg
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07 ppg
3. LeBron James 27.52 ppg


All time Player Efficiency Rating Rank

1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43



Notice a trend?


The 2 GOATs MJ and LeBron

:bowdown: :applause: :applause:
Hey man, love your avatar. I know it's not the most flattering for our LA hero, but I appreciate the fact that there are guys out there who always have him on their minds and constantly concerned with what's going on in the world of Kobe.

[NZStreetBaller]

Hey man, love your avatar. I know it's not the most flattering for our LA hero, but I appreciate the fact that there are guys out there who always have him on their minds and constantly concerned with what's going on in the world of Kobe.

I think its very flattering the avatar basically represents that kobe will be good enough long enough to be in a lakers jersey untill he is old he is capable of grey hair. Its really just a compliment to his conditioning and longetivy. Welcome to kobe stan land dubeta my friend :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

What about 2011? Wade and Bosh showed up, Lebron didn't. Was that the TEAM's fault as well? Silly boy. And would have lost in 2013 as well if the TEAM didn't show up at the end of Game 6, when Lebron had back-to-back turnovers and missed 2 out of 3 threes.

At least when Kobe or Duncan lost, you couldn't blame it on them single-handedly. Lebron's 2011 Finals choke is the worst by ANY superstar. We're not talking about one bad shooting night or a crucial mistake in a must-win game, we're talking averaging 18 ppg AND having an 8-point Finals game, horrible 4th quarter numbers EVERY game against a much older team, getting sonned by Jason ****ing Terry.

:roll:
the same Terry who sonned Kobe in the final game as he helped the mavs SWEEP the overwhelming favorites defending champs Lakers:roll: :roll:


Finals. 2004 is the worst finals by any supposed superstar in history:roll:

[dannywpt]

That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

GOAT choke

[dubeta]

Wait, why are people bringing kobe in this discussion can't they read

[3ball]

:applause:
who's been giving this guy respect.... he doesn't understand what usage is

[3ball]

That's true. So... I wonder why a certain player didn't pull his weight in a certain finals...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg
only lebron was capable of this

[3ball]

Wait, why are people bringing kobe in this discussion can't they read
because kobe got his rings legit

[3ball]

:roll:
the same Terry who sonned Kobe in the final game as he helped the mavs SWEEP the overwhelming favorites defending champs Lakers:roll: :roll:


Finals. 2004 is the worst finals by any supposed superstar in history:roll:
this

[3ball]

All-time PPG ranking

1. Michael Jordan 30.12 ppg
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07 ppg
3. LeBron James 27.52 ppg


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a9f835902b8ef51c05b32b346b646b3f.gif

Out of the 3, lebron is easily the worst finisher around the rim - today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds clears the paint of defenders and gives him a ton of open looks in the paint that Wilt and Jordan never got...

People would be amazed at how wide open Jordan would get all the time in today's game just like lebron gets... in today's game, jordan wouldn't have to finish over defenders like he did in the gif above.

Here's all of Lebron's dunks in 2013-2014 season - Lebron only had to dunk over a defender 3 times in 2014 (reach-ins and fly-bys don't count)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJNe550OrZM

He only had to dunk over defenders twice in the 2012-2013 season... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6abQGCtkTg

You can't compare Lebron's uncontested shots in the paint to the contested shots Jordan and Wilt took.
.

[3ball]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html



MJ's PER as Chicago Bull: 29.1

MJ's WS/48 as Chicago Bull: 0.274









Everyone Else
.

[LAZERUSS]

Of course Chamberlain was LIGHT YEARS better at rebounding and had a FAR greater impact on the defensive end than either MJ or Lebron. And at his peak, he was as great a passer. Furthermore, how about PEAKs?

[-23-]

Of course Chamberlain was LIGHT YEARS better at rebounding and had a FAR greater impact on the defensive end than either MJ or Lebron. And at his peak, he was as great a passer. Furthermore, how about PEAKs?
Of course Wilt was a better rebounder. He was a center. The sky is also blue? You also underestimate MJ's defensive prowess, his impact as a guard is one of the greatest of all time.

[3ball]

Of course Wilt was a better rebounder. He was a center. The sky is also blue? You also underestimate MJ's defensive prowess, his impact as a guard is one of the greatest of all time.
whose non-big man defensive impact was greater?

Jordan has the highest plus/minus ever recorded: +980 in the 1995-1996 season.

[LAZERUSS]

Of course Wilt was a better rebounder. He was a center. The sky is also blue? You also underestimate MJ's defensive prowess, his impact as a guard is one of the greatest of all time.

Being the game's GREATEST rebounder and second greatest defensive player (and easily the greatest shot-blocker) seems to be a bit trivialized in this topic, though, don't you think?

[-23-]

Being the game's GREATEST rebounder and second greatest defensive player (and easily the greatest shot-blocker) seems to be a bit trivialized in this topic, though, don't you think?

Greatest rebounder is arguable. By % TRB, Rodman shits on Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Greatest rebounder is arguable. By % TRB, Rodman shits on Wilt.

Had Chamberlain only played 30 mpg, concentrated on only going after rebounds (and not pouring in 40 ppg while being heavily-defended at the offensive end), and NOT BLOCKING shots, he likely would have blown away any "TRB%" marks. People forget that going for blocks effectively reduces rebounding...and Chamberlain was not only blocking 10 shots per game in his career, he was probably attempting to block twice as many as that.

Oh, and Chamberlain averaged 24.5 rpg in his POST-SEASON play. How about your boy Dennis?

[Lebronxrings]

:applause: dubeta destroying haters likelebron destroying the competition.

[HurricaneKid]

whose non-big man defensive impact was greater?

Jordan has the highest plus/minus ever recorded: +980 in the 1995-1996 season.

You are a bad person on top of a bad poster. You are disengenuous and make up things and harken back to them even after you are proven wrong. I have corrected you on this on multiple occasions.

Plus/Minus in any useful format compares what a player does when they are on the floor and compare it to what it does when they are off the floor. The stat you have is just PLUS.

By your measure BJ Armstrong is a better player than Olajuwon. Because when he was on the floor MJ was and they were very successful.

The stat you are referring to is when MJ was on the floor in 95-96 the Bulls were +980. But they were also +~180 (IIRC) without him on the floor. Giving him an impressive +800. LeBron in 08/09 was +1006. He turned a team that was -137 (-5.9 points/100 poss) into a top 10 win team ever with a +869 (+15.1 points/100 poss).

Unless you want to continue your case that BJ Armstrong is better than Olajuwon get your **** together.

[SouBeachTalents]

What about 2011? Wade and Bosh showed up, Lebron didn't. Was that the TEAM's fault as well? Silly boy. And would have lost in 2013 as well if the TEAM didn't show up at the end of Game 6, when Lebron had back-to-back turnovers and missed 2 out of 3 threes.

At least when Kobe or Duncan lost, you couldn't blame it on them single-handedly. Lebron's 2011 Finals choke is the worst by ANY superstar. We're not talking about one bad shooting night or a crucial mistake in a must-win game, we're talking averaging 18 ppg AND having an 8-point Finals game, horrible 4th quarter numbers EVERY game against a much older team, getting sonned by Jason ****ing Terry.

I agree 100% on 2011, but you seriously overrate the help LeBron got in the 2013 playoffs. Kobe had just as much production, if not more out of his teammates in 08 & 09 than LeBron did in 2013

[SwayDizzle]

dubeta

[mehyaM24]

You are a bad person on top of a bad poster. You are disengenuous and make up things and harken back to them even after you are proven wrong. I have corrected you on this on multiple occasions.

Plus/Minus in any useful format compares what a player does when they are on the floor and compare it to what it does when they are off the floor. The stat you have is just PLUS.

By your measure BJ Armstrong is a better player than Olajuwon. Because when he was on the floor MJ was and they were very successful.

The stat you are referring to is when MJ was on the floor in 95-96 the Bulls were +980. But they were also +~180 (IIRC) without him on the floor. Giving him an impressive +800. LeBron in 08/09 was +1006. He turned a team that was -137 (-5.9 points/100 poss) into a top 10 win team ever with a +869 (+15.1 points/100 poss).

Unless you want to continue your case that BJ Armstrong is better than Olajuwon get your **** together.
:applause:

[3ball]

mehyta, you need to change the OP so Jordan's PER reads 29.1, since that is what he had in his 13 seasons as a Bull, before his Wizards years pulled down his PER to the 27.9 that you listed (still the best, but still).

[3ball]

posters itt with no clue about how to look at numbers.... :facepalm

[3ball]

The stat you are referring to is when MJ was on the floor in 95-96 the Bulls were +980. But they were also +~180 (IIRC) without him on the floor. Giving him an impressive +800. LeBron in 08/09 was +1006. He turned a team that was -137 (-5.9 points/100 poss) into a top 10 win team ever with a +869 (+15.1 points/100 poss).


Lebron's plus/minus alongside championship-level supporting casts in Miami is far worse than Jordan's.

But Jordan's game was much more adaptable to teammates, so it shouldn't be a surprise that Jordan still added massive value to supporting casts that were already very good, while Lebron could not.

Just imagine if we had the plus/minus data for Jordan back when he was carrying garbage teams to the playoffs.... oooohweeee, he would destroy Lebron even worse..
.

[mehyaM24]

^ why did you delete your initial reply, claiming to "hoop" and "dunk on everybody"? that hurricanekid "couldn't play basketball"?

reality actually kick in?

[3ball]

^ why did you delete your initial reply, claiming to "hoop" and "dunk on everybody"? that hurricanekid "couldn't play basketball"?

reality actually kick in?
no, all that is true.

but i figured responding to the content of his actual post would be more productive in enlightening lebron fans than pointing out how pathetic his knowledge of the game is compared to mine.

[mehyaM24]

no, all that is true.

but i figured responding to the content of his actual post would be more productive in enlightening lebron fans than pointing out how pathetic his knowledge of the game is compared to mine.
eh, i actually preferred your first response. at least i got a chuckle from it.

this one not only lacks comedy, but couldn't be more inaccurate. like EVERY sentence in that post was wrong.

[3ball]

eh, i actually preferred your first response. at least i got a chuckle from it.

this one not only lacks comedy, but couldn't be more inaccurate. like EVERY sentence in that post was wrong.
you asked me a question, i answered it...

i could care less about the feelings of a shallow-minded lebron fan.

[3ball]

back to my original response to OP before sensitive fans derailed the thread:


comparing the 3 players in the OP requires a reconciliation of the styles played in each era - i.e. in today's open paint, it's like a footrace to see if the offensive player can beat defenders to the open space in the paint..

lebron simply uses his athleticism to beat defenders to the open paint, which is why he gets so many at-rim shots.

all those wide open dunks for lebron - think how many wide open dunks the quicker and more elusive Jordan would get beating defenders to the open paint, especially considering his style of immediately acting after catching the basketball.
.