Which is the greater injustice?

[Leroy Jetson]

The fact that Shaq only won 1 MVP or that Duncan never won DPOY?

Obviously Shaq was a dominant force in the NBA for a decade and somehow Nash has more MVPs than him. I think his size worked against him. If you could magically insert a prime Shaq or a prime Iverson onto your team you know who you would pick.

On the other hand Duncan anchored one of the top NBA defensive teams for over a decade and is considered an all time defensive great while Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler have won. If you had to pick a player to anchor your defense no one would choose those guys over Duncan.

Personally I think both of these facts are crazy but if I had to pick one greater travesty I gotta go with Duncan, DPOY is one of the few pieces of hardware he doesn't have.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I think the DPoY one is bigger.

You can make arguments for each season for the MVP and Shaq. But you can't argue that he deserved to win at least one MVP in his career, which he did. I also agree that it's weird that one of the most dominant players in history only has one, but he ended his career with that recognition at least one time.

Same for Duncan and DPoY. You can make an argument on a per season basis but it's really bizarre that one of the greatest defenders ever never won the award for best defender that year.

I will say this: because of the new data we get from those cameras, and the way we understand the impact a player can have in new ways, if a Tim Duncan came along now he'd win a ton of DPoY's. We have a better way to quantify everything Tim does to control that game defensively.

[Leroy Jetson]

Definitely agree with your last point. Too often it is decided by blocked shots, which are great but mostly just give the ball back to the opponent anyway. The amount of altered shots Duncan was responsible for and his defensive leadership and IQ definitely should have been recognized.

[I<3NBA]

DPOY.

you can't tell me that in all the years that Duncan has been anchoring the Spurs' defense he never once deserved DPOY.

and he has anchored one of the best defensive teams in the NBA -

for years.

[backb0ard]

Which year would Duncan have won DPOY?

Maybe the Marcus Camby one. Aside from that, all the other years, Duncan has a pretty weak argument.

Now Bruce Bowen should have won at lest once.

[SouBeachTalents]

Any specific year people think Pippen should have won a DPOY?

[Nowitness]

Which year would Duncan have won DPOY?

Maybe the Marcus Camby one. Aside from that, all the other years, Duncan has a pretty weak argument.

Now Bruce Bowen should have won at lest once.

When should Bruce have won?

[T_L_P]

I think Duncan deserved DPOY in 2013, but he was only 6th in voting.

That's what's always annoyed me; even when he didn't win it, he should have easily been top 3. In 03 World Peace was ahead of him (:facepalm). In 2002 Kobe was ahead of him (:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm). In 2004, Duncan's peak defensive season, Theo Ratliff, Bowen, and AK47 were ahead of him. 2005 was Bowen and Camby. List goes on.

Why are voters so insistent on contextualizing the award for positions? The DPOY is the one who impacts the defense most. That will ALWAYS be a big man. (In the past 20 years the best defenders have been Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan, Dikembe, Garnett, and Ben Wallace. Not Jordan, or Pippen, or Bowen or LeBron.)

Even if we contextualize, was Bowen's RAPM ever even close to Duncan's? I mean, obviously he didn't have a bigger impact straight up, but apparently he still doesn't come close on a Per 100 basis. :oldlol:

Ben Wallace was a worthy winner every year from 03-06. Duncan could have snagged one there. But he had the best RAPM in the league in 2013 and he took the Spurs from the 11th ranked defense in 2012 to the 3rd in 2013 (with an insane comeback season).

But now I'm reading Ibaka (3.5 Def RAPM), LeBron (1.6), Noah (4.9), Allen (3.5) were all better (Duncan had a 6.4 -- best in the league -- and Gasol had a 5.6). Read the PoundingTheRock articles on Duncan deserved DPOY in 2013. It was clearly him.

It's disrespectful. Give Wallace and Gasol the award. But don't tell me Kobe Bryant, Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen and LeBron James had a bigger defensive impact than one of the 5 or 10 greatest defenders ever.

Rant over/

[dubeta]

The greater injustice is LeBron not winning DPOY yet

[T_L_P]

Definitely agree with your last point. Too often it is decided by blocked shots, which are great but mostly just give the ball back to the opponent anyway. The amount of altered shots Duncan was responsible for and his defensive leadership and IQ definitely should have been recognized.

PoundTheRock did a Duncan DPOY series in 2013 and they found that he keeps more balls in play after a block than anybody else -- by far.

His positioning inside has always been incredibly underrated. His ability to read the opposing offense lets him block shots almost flatfooted, which means he is rarely ever out of position (the most important part of defense for any player).