Replace 2000-2004 Kobe with prime Pippen...

[JT123]

How many rings? I say at least 4.

[Kvnzhangyay]

are u factoring in the fact that Shaq wouldn't have left

[JT123]

are u factoring in the fact that Shaq wouldn't have left
Naw, cause then the hypotheticals get too messy. For this reason I am only factoring in the years that Shaq and Kobe played their best ball together.

[dubeta]

4 peat

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

3 rings. Early 2K Bean was definitely replaceable.

2K swingmen that would win at least 2-3 rings: AI/TMac/Carter/Dirk/Pierce

[ZeN]

replacing prime pippen to a scenario of prime kobe would mean more

[JT123]

3 rings. Early 2K Bean was definitely replaceable.

2K swingmen that would win at least 2-3 rings: AI/TMac/Carter/Dirk/Pierce
Excellent post. :applause: All those guys win at least 3 rings, with maybe the exception of AI who may only win 1 due to his low efficiency.

[TheMarkMadsen]

3 rings. Early 2K Bean was definitely replaceable.

2K swingmen that would win at least 2-3 rings: AI/TMac/Carter/Dirk/Pierce

awful post as usual

01 Kobe put up basically the same numbers (even better numbers certain years) than the second 3peat Jordan in the playoffs..

yet according to you that version of kobe is replaceable with guys like young Dirk, Tmac, Carter & Pierce? :roll:

so i guess Jordan was replaceable with all of those guys during the 2nd 3peat too?

or does your hater ass logic only apply to Kobe? :lol

[JT123]

awful post as usual

01 Kobe put up basically the same numbers (even better numbers certain years) than the second 3peat Jordan in the playoffs..

yet according to you that version of kobe is replaceable with guys like young Dirk, Tmac, Carter & Pierce? :roll:

so i guess Jordan was replaceable with all of those guys during the 2nd 3peat too?

or does your hater ass logic only apply to Kobe? :lol
I didn't make this thread to cause conflict, I made it to have mature and intelligent basketball discussion. If you aren't going to contribute an opinion I am going to have to ask you to leave.

[Mr Exlax]

awful post as usual

01 Kobe put up basically the same numbers (even better numbers certain years) than the second 3peat Jordan in the playoffs..

yet according to you that version of kobe is replaceable with guys like young Dirk, Tmac, Carter & Pierce? :roll:

so i guess Jordan was replaceable with all of those guys during the 2nd 3peat too?

or does your hater ass logic only apply to Kobe? :lol

Actually, I'd say Tmac, Carter & Pierce probably could replace MJ. Sure, they're no where near as good as he is, but those Bulls teams were great. They almost made it to the Finals when MJ was replaced by a D-League level player. That should tell you something.

[Element]

They might get one in 00 but then again I'm not sure if Pippen has enough balls to do what Kobe did against the Blazers lol

In a vacuum peak Pip is better than 00 Kobe. Every other version of Kobe afterwards is just much superior.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I didn't make this thread to cause conflict, I made it to have mature and intelligent basketball discussion. If you aren't going to contribute an opinion I am going to have to ask you to leave.

if we ever share the same opinion i'm offing myself

[Lebronxrings]

Rings... Rings everyehere...

[STATUTORY]

more rings than if you replaced him with lebron

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

awful post as usual

01 Kobe put up basically the same numbers (even better numbers certain years) than the second 3peat Jordan in the playoffs..

I'm sure there are a handful of perimeter players that would've put up pretty numbers alongside Phil and MDE, Shaq.

Hell, Tmac and Vince had a higher player efficiency rating in 01, without those guys, during the season you mentioned.

I get that you love Kobe, but try and be objective for once. :oldlol:

[JT123]

They might get one in 00 but then again I'm not sure if Pippen has enough balls to do what Kobe did against the Blazers lol

In a vacuum peak Pip is better than 00 Kobe. Every other version of Kobe afterwards is just much superior.
I don't know. Kobe was obviously the superior offensive player, but I believe Pippen's defense and playmaking would more than make up for his slightly inferior scoring skill set. :confusedshrug:

[JT123]

more rings than if you replaced him with lebron
So even a Kobe stan admits that Pippen would win at least 2 rings with Shaq. :applause: Thank you for your honesty. Can you give me an exact number?

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm sure there are a handful of perimeter players that would've put up pretty numbers alongside Phil and MDE, Shaq.

Hell, Tmac and Vince had a higher player efficiency rating in 01, without those guys, during the season you mentioned.

I get that you love Kobe, but try and be objective for once. :oldlol:

we're talking playoffs no?

Kobe led the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring on incredible efficiency in 01 & 02.

Tmac & Vince gonna do that..?


Kobe putting up those numbeers has little to do with Shaq..

This argument of "Kobe's numbers are a product of Shaq" argument died a long time ago, sorry..

Considering Kobe himself put up better numbers than he did with Shaq when he was without Shaq a decade later while winning b2b rings :roll:

it ain't 2006 anymore. Shaq left and Kobe repeated while putting up better numbers than he ever did with Shaq, that argument has been dead for awhile now

try to keep up

[HOoopCityJones]

Replace Lebron with any All-star forward and the Heat still win two. ISH logic.

[tpols]

LA was 1st in defensive rating in 2000..so pippen couldn't improve the defense much. He also couldn't provide the clutch scoring/playmakinf Kobe provided against Portland and against indy.. So they likely would've lost(although hypothetical are tough because pippin was a key part of that portland team)

2001 pippin has never averaged what Kobe did in the West.. 35ppg series to overwhelm with Shaq. So there's no telling.. Maybe they still eek it out but Def not 16-1.

2002 you've got the Kings.. Refs barely got LA past them.. Doubt if pippin was in there they have the scoring to move on.

At some point though pippen/Shaq would've won 1-2 rings.. They'd be a decent pairing. Would be tough to get the closer role fulfilled while Shaq sat in foul trouble or bricked FTs after getting intentionally fouled.

[DatAsh]

LA was 1st in defensive rating in 2000..so pippen couldn't improve the defense much.

Just because you're the best doesn't mean you can't get better. Even if you're the best, you can separate yourself further from the pack. For example, the 65' Celtics were 8.5 points/possession better than the second best defensive team.

[coin24]

http://s11.postimg.org/q0ena4tvn/JAMEER.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload image online (http://postimage.org/)


:lol :lol

[AnaheimLakers24]

only player that cant 3peat with shaq is bran. (proven in 08)
shaq hates shooting 3s

[JT123]

Just because you're the best doesn't mean you can't get better. Even if you're the best, you can separate yourself further from the pack. For example, the 65' Celtics were 8.5 points/possession better than the second best defensive team.
Excellent point. Pippen is the kind of defender that can turn a great defensive team into an ALL TIME great defensive team. :bowdown:

[bizil]

The magic of Kobe is he's the ultimate alpha dog AND a great all around player in one. Of all the great SG's in the 2000s, T-Mac was the only one close to Kobe in that sense. And even in comparison to Mac, Kobe was a great defender too. But I admit that any of those guys would have been winning rings with the Lakers. They were all alpha dogs and among the top 10-15 GOAT wise at their positions.

Pippen matches Kobe in the all around aspects (passing, defense, rebounding) and was even better in that sense. Pip wasn't an alpha but he was a very good scorer that can give u 22 a night. So Pip in place of Kobe at least just a much success. And maybe due to cohesion and getting along, u would even be MORE SUCCESSFUL in the long run. Shaq was such a beast that u didn't really need another alpha dog around him anyway. A guy like Pip would be more than enough as a number two option. But DON'T get it twisted, if Shaq and Mamba can co-exist for the long haul, u KEEP THAT! Peak wise Shaq and Kobe is the best tandem of ALL TIME!! Better than Magic-Kareem, Dr. J-Moses, Stock-Malone, Cousy-Russell, MJ-Pip, Big O-Cap, or Bron-Wade. It's the closest we will EVER get to seeing MJ-Wilt on the same team!

[tpols]

The magic of Kobe is he's the ultimate alpha dog AND a great all around player in one. Of all the great SG's in the 2000s, T-Mac was the only one close to Kobe in that sense!

I feel like Vince carter was too.. Even better than tmac. He has 30ppg series against Dwayne Wade.. And Allen Iverson. If any early 2000s player could replicate it'd be vc.

[L.A. Jazz]

Pippen was a great all-around player and one of my favourite players of all time. Starts on my team over Bird and Lebron at SF. but taking over games at the end, create, take and make difficult shots was not his strength. But thats what the Lakers needed back then and what Kobe did for them.

Looking at how close it was in 2000 and how mad i was at Pipp for not leading the Blazers when they clearly needed him in game 7 to calm down and run their sets (i am a Lakers fan and a Pippen fan), i dont take Pipp over Kobe to be my closer.

[Myth]

They threepeat still (with less controversy) and maybe don't collapse in 2004 and get 4th ring. They still lose in 2003.

[Dragonyeuw]

They would AT LEAST win the 2000 title. In 2001 and 2002, Scottie didn't have the kind of offensive potency that Kobe provided, but he would have easily matched him in all-around aspects of the game( passing, defense, playmaking) and let's not act like Scottie was a scrub on offense. He also probably would have co-existed with Shaq better because he didn't have that alpha personality. I think they win with Shaq/Pip in 2000 and 2002, not so sure about 2001 because Kobe was definitely crucial in those series against the Kings and especially the Spurs....

[Charlie Sheen]

replacing prime pippen to a scenario of prime kobe would mean more
Yep.

I don't think Pippen drags those smush, kwame, cook teams to the playoffs.

[bizil]

I feel like Vince carter was too.. Even better than tmac. He has 30ppg series against Dwayne Wade.. And Allen Iverson. If any early 2000s player could replicate it'd be vc.

I agree! I think Vince was certainly on par with both back then in terms of being an alpha. In terms of all around game, I think Vince was very good, but Kobe and T-Mac had epic all around games! They are two of the most versatile perimeter players of all time!

[Heavincent]

we're talking playoffs no?

Kobe led the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring on incredible efficiency in 01 & 02.

Tmac & Vince gonna do that..?


Kobe putting up those numbeers has little to do with Shaq..

This argument of "Kobe's numbers are a product of Shaq" argument died a long time ago, sorry..

Considering Kobe himself put up better numbers than he did with Shaq when he was without Shaq a decade later while winning b2b rings :roll:

it ain't 2006 anymore. Shaq left and Kobe repeated while putting up better numbers than he ever did with Shaq, that argument has been dead for awhile now

try to keep up

this

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Prime Pippen > 00 Kobe so at least 1 IMO..probably 2-3

[jayfan]

I've never seen Pippen win anything without Jordan. So who knows?

:confusedshrug:




.

[ImKobe]

Ok, put prime Pippen on the Lakers. I'll put Kobe on the Blazers. Portland wins 2 rings, Lakers win 0.

[riseagainst]

they'd win in 00 and maybe 04.

[ImKobe]

they'd win in 00 and maybe 04.

04? Not with the way the rest of the team outside of Shaq performed in that series. No way.

[jayfan]

Would he throw a tantrum and pout on the sidelines when final shots were drawn up for DFish/Shaw?








.

[Element]

they'd win in 00 and maybe 04.

I seriously do not want to know what Scottie Pippen being the main defensive focus of the 04 Pistons would look like. Sub 20 ppg sub 50 TS% most likely

[oarabbus]

Kobe >>>> Pippen

:facepalm at this even being a debate

[ImKobe]

I seriously do not want to know what Scottie Pippen being the main defensive focus of the 04 Pistons would look like. Sub 20 ppg sub 50 TS% most likely

I don't think they even get past the Spurs that year..