Bran made Bosh worse

[Ca$H]

Bosh 26 and 15. LOL @ Bran stans.

[beastee]

Of course he will go back to 24 and 12. This was pretty obvious. Since when has Lebron made anyone a truly better player other than a spot up 3 point shooter?

[lilteapot]

Bran made Bosh a 2 time champion.

[DaSeba5]

Bran made Bosh a 2 time champion.

It's a team sport. Bosh is the one who got the offensive rebound, passed it to Ray Allen, and blocked Danny Green to seal the game.

[BuffaloBill]

Water is wet

[EnoughSaid]

It's a team sport. Bosh is the one who got the offensive rebounding, passed it to Ray Allen, and blocked Danny Green to seal the game.

:cheers:

Bosh has been able to catch the ball higher up the court and dictate whether he wants to drive or get a different shot. He'll really fly this season. See him getting All-NBA 2nd Team honors and being in the talks for MVP.

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh, look... Im guessing this is the Quality thread in which LeBron was mentioned.

ISH :facepalm

[Brizzly]

No shit.

Bosh one of the best PF in the game and Bran turned him into a spot up shooter. Bawsh gonna dominate this year.

[lilteapot]

It's a team sport. Bosh is the one who got the offensive rebound, passed it to Ray Allen, and blocked Danny Green to seal the game.

Perfect. So in that specific instance, how did Lebron make him worse?

[nba_55]

It's a team sport. Bosh is the one who got the offensive rebound, passed it to Ray Allen, and blocked Danny Green to seal the game.

He was also the one who scored 0 point in game 7 and the one who made Hibbert looked like Kareem.

[DaSeba5]

He was also the one who scored 0 points in game 5 and the one who made Hibbert looked like Kareem.

But he still made plays when it mattered throughout the big 3 era. IJS. It's a team sport. We focus so much on 1 player. It requires a team to win a title.

[Brizzly]

He was also the one who scored 0 point in game 7 and the one who made Hibbert looked like Kareem.

Forcing him to guard Hbbert was the real problem. That's like puttin Chris Paul on LBJ.

[DaSeba5]

Perfect. So in that specific instance, how did Lebron make him worse?

The offense was designed to spread the floor for Wade and LeBron to drive and kick it out to shooters. Now I'm not saying LeBron turned him into a scrub or anything. That was just the scheme.

[JT123]

It's a team sport. Bosh is the one who got the offensive rebound, passed it to Ray Allen, and blocked Danny Green to seal the game.
So having 3 good plays in the entirety of the 2013 playoffs means he wasn't carried? :facepalm

[DaSeba5]

So having 3 good plays in the entirety of the 2013 playoffs means he wasn't carried? :facepalm

LeBron did most of the heavy lifting, but they don't win their 2 titles without plays from other players. Some people act like LeBron did everything.

[SouBeachTalents]

So having 3 good plays in the entirety of the 2013 playoffs means he wasn't carried? :facepalm

His Game 7 of the Finals does as well

[lilteapot]

The offense was designed to spread the floor for Wade and LeBron to drive and kick it out to shooters. Now I'm not saying LeBron turned him into a scrub or anything. That was just the scheme.
But even then there were plenty of possessions that ended up with Bosh facing up against a defender he was much, much quicker then and instead of taking him off the dribble, he settled for an awkward jumper. It was infuriating to watch last year.

[nba_55]

But he still made plays when it mattered throughout the big 3 era. IJS. It's a team sport. We focus so much on 1 player. It requires a team to win a title.

I agree with your statement. It's a team sport. One player shouldn't get all the credit ,one player shouldn't get all the blame. The title of this thread should be 2010-2013 Heat teams made Bosh worse, not Lebron.

[ballinhun8]

Daseba. Get out while you can.


You're going against the bran Stan family. No good can come of this

[DaSeba5]

But even then there were plenty of possessions that ended up with Bosh facing up against a defender he was much, much quicker then and instead of taking him off the dribble, he settled for an awkward jumper. It was infuriating to watch last year.

I agree that Bosh was up and down. He's going to have better numbers this year by default because he's the main option.

[3ball]

So having 3 good plays in the entirety of the 2013 playoffs means he wasn't carried? :facepalm
well, Bosh was a 24/12 guy before Lebron... and he appears to be that and more after Lebron....

so no, he wasn't carried, apparently he was held down by Lebron.

facts are facts my good student.

[DaSeba5]

I agree with your statement. It's a team sport. One player shouldn't get all the credit ,one player shouldn't get all the blame. The title of this thread should be 2010-2013 Heat teams made Bosh worse, not Lebron.

I don't agree with the OP. LeBron did the heavy lifting, but they won as a team. This is obviously a troll thread.

[navy]

Bosh 26 and 15. LOL @ Bran stans.
Curious, when Bosh has a bad game is AW allowed to make this exact same thread but in reverse?

Because he will.

[nba_55]

The offense was designed to spread the floor for Wade and LeBron to drive and kick it out to shooters. Now I'm not saying LeBron turned him into a scrub or anything. That was just the scheme.

They did try Bosh post up plays multiple times, and they did experiment running the offense throught Bosh, but it never worked.

[DaSeba5]

They did try Bosh post up play multiple times, and they did experiment running the offense throught Bosh, but it never worked.

It seems to be working this year from what I've seen so far. Although he's worked on his game this summer.

[dubeta]

Lebron taught Bosh how to be comfortable shooting from long distances, which is certainly helping him now

LeBron also helped Bosh on how to play off ball instead of the ball dominant PF Bosh was in Raptors when he only made the playoffs twice

[nba_55]

well, Bosh was a 24/12 guy before Lebron... and he appears to be that and more after Lebron....

so no, he wasn't carried, apparently he was held down by Lebron.

facts are facts my good student.

You are not talking about facts when you use words like ''apprently''. Bring us more solid facts.

[navy]

They did try Bosh post up plays multiple times, and they did experiment running the offense throught Bosh, but it never worked.
Bosh isnt the type you run your offense through. Nor posting up. He's better face up and spot up.

[edrick]

well, Bosh was a 24/12 guy before Lebron... and he appears to be that and more after Lebron....

so no, he wasn't carried, apparently he was held down by Lebron.

facts are facts my good student.

Bosh won what, 2 or 3 playoff games before joining the Heat? :rolleyes:

[nba_55]

It seems to be working this year from what I've seen so far. Although he's worked on his game this summer.

I have yet to see him play this year. I will look foward to see how he does as the season goes on. Personally, I don't think he will keep this up. I base this prediction solely on what I saw from him last year.

[Mamba]

there is only one ball.

It was said from the start, the miami big 3 although winning two championships was not the best fitting team.

Lebron and wade were essentially the same player at the time. Wade was smaller, more agile and quicker. Lebron was bigger and stronger. Both with unreliable 3 point shots and jump shots, drive and kick type superstars who relied on their athleticism, and having the green light to do what they wanted with the ball.
Bosh was able to play off ball and still was able to, however when you have two ball dominant SUPERSTARS your numbers are going to hinder and you're not going to fit in the system properly, not knowing whos going to run what play when you have batman and superman controlling the ball.

Its not Lebrons fault
Its not wades fault
Its not Bosh's fault

This is just how the teams were, thats why they had to load up on 3 point shooters to truly be successful, such as Mike Miller, Ray Allen and Shane Battier.
Its also why Mario Chalmers was turned into more of a spot up 3 point shooter.

I don't even know why i'm posting this. Its logical, but its ISH...this is definitely going to be ignored.

[Trollsmasher]

judging from one game:lol

[lilteapot]

Also, of course Bosh's production went down. if you're telling me you wouldn't run more plays for Lebron Freaking James in favor of getting Bosh touches, then you're crazy.

Bosh played a perfect role during the Heat's run. He was a superb pick and roll defender and stretched the floor really well. He was an integral part of those 2 titles. But lebron didn't make Bosh worse, he just limited his output, which is kind of what happens when you play with the greatest player in the game.

Bosh's value in the past 4 years can't be seen on any stat sheet, you just simply had to be watching Miami Heat basketball.

[DaSeba5]

I think you guys are easily taking the bait. I don't know why the mods haven't deleted this thread yet.

[I<3NBA]

Kobe made Pau Gasol looked old. Goes to bulls and put up big numbers

[lilteapot]

I think you guys are easily taking the bait. I don't know why the mods haven't deleted this thread yet.
It's sad that we can't have a discussion in this forum. Almost every single thread is a troll thread.

[3ball]

I agree that Bosh was up and down. He's going to have better numbers this year by default because he's the main option.
When a forward like Lebron dominates the ball as much as a point guard, that has a trickle down effect because the actual point guard (Chalmers) will still dominate the ball a little just by default of being the actual point guard, and Wade will sneak some touches in there where he dominates the ball too.

So that leaves nothing for Bosh but the very smallest amount of time with the ball - all that's left is to spot up and be a floor-spreader - after all, if Bosh had been allowed to call his own number more, that would have taken away from Lebron's time with the ball, and then maybe Lebron would not have been the most ball-dominant wing, and we can't ever have that.

it's laughable to me that even Bosh himself is on TV saying he did it for the good of the team, when in reality, the Heat sucked last year with everyone out of position, and were exposed in the Finals when their offense was the worst of any Spurs opponent and flat-out couldn't keep up with the Spurs.

Just imagine if Lebron was an off-ball player and had say 28% less time with the ball like Durant had last year - that's 28% of time with the ball that could go to Bosh, and then the Heat would have been far more productive as a team.

[knicksman]

Just admit it bran stans. You guys are too gullible to believe bran is better than kobe.

[SouBeachTalents]

Just admit it bran stans. You guys are too gullible to believe bran is better than kobe.

How'd the Knick game go?

[navy]

How'd the Knick game go?
:roll:

[knicksman]

How'd the Knick game go?

:oldlol:

[navy]

Anyone else amazed at 3ball still mentioning Chalmers at point guard? :oldlol:

[Real14]

How'd the Knick game go?
worse than LeBron's 2011 finals in the 4th quarters.

[knicksman]

At the end of the day. Only bran stans are stupid enough to believe hes better than kobe magic jordan. That stupidity never cease to amaze me..:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

worse than LeBron's 2011 finals in the 4th quarters.

You show even less heart than he did, giving up on your team after the first game

[ralph_i_el]

Obviously Bosh is going to get more touches now that Bran is gone :facepalm That doesn't mean Bosh was any worse when he played with Bran....why would you run your O through Bosh when you have Lebron?
:facepalm

[JUDGE WITNESS]

You show even less heart than he did, giving up on your team after the first game
:lol

[sdot_thadon]

Well like others already mentioned, bosh is simply going to get more touches this season. I don't think you can be "held back" by a better player unless they play your same position. Imo the thing that is never mentioned is bosh was 3rd option during the run. When wade started breaking down bosh should have been promoted to 2nd option but due to loyalty or whatever no one would dare ask wade to step down. He was the face of the franchise ya know.

[Blue&Orange]

Daseba. Get out while you can.


You're going against the bran Stan family. No good can come of this
:lol :roll: :lol

[Smoke117]

Bosh was never going to average MORE STATS playing with Lebron and Wade. That was a given. Saying Lebron made him worse is absurd. Who the hell else was gonna take shots away from him on the Raptors? He was the Heats 3rd best scorer and regulated to that role. The first season in 2011 their half court offense was so spastic. It was like Spoelstra just gave Lebron and Wade the ball and said...okay, do yo thang playas. They got better as a TEAM because they finally started playing some organized ball...not just Lebron, Wade, and to a lesser extent Bosh taking turns doing their thing. Bosh was always going to be the 3rd option. Lebron and wade were literally the two best players in the league in 2010...

[Just2McFly]

so lebron being the completely focus of the other team on both sides of the ball made Bosh a worse rebounder too? you act like he couldnt have gotten 15 rebounds with bron there:lol

[Mr.Kite]

so lebron being the completely focus of the other team on both sides of the ball made Bosh a worse rebounder too? you act like he couldnt have gotten 15 rebounds with bron there:lol

someone show the gif where lebron got angry when his teammate got a rebound

[PJR]

so lebron being the completely focus of the other team on both sides of the ball made Bosh a worse rebounder too? you act like he couldnt have gotten 15 rebounds with bron there:lol

Bosh is the type of guy who needs touches to remain engaged into the game. He's ultra skilled, and is of a star caliber.

Not every guy can remain engaged on defense and on the boards without consistent offensive opportunities. Basketball is a game of rhythm.

[3ball]

Bosh is the type of guy who needs touches to remain engaged into the game. He's ultra skilled, and is of a star caliber.

Not every guy can remain engaged on defense and on the boards without consistent offensive opportunities. Basketball is a game of rhythm.
smells like someone has a real understanding of the game..

agree with the post - certainly a guy like Bosh is not your Rodman type that only cares about rebounding.... Bosh can do so many things, that if he doesn't get to do them, it makes sense that he would become disengaged.

also, lebron made bosh be a floor-spreader, which took him away from the basket - he only got 1.2 offensive rebounds last year, after averaging between 2.6 and 2.9 in Toronto.

[tpols]

Bosh is the type of guy who needs touches to remain engaged into the game. He's ultra skilled, and is of a star caliber.

Not every guy can remain engaged on defense and on the boards without consistent offensive opportunities. Basketball is a game of rhythm.

Noow you get it.. and all this time I was just a troll.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bosh was never going to average MORE STATS playing with Lebron and Wade. That was a given. Saying Lebron made him worse is absurd. Who the hell else was gonna take shots away from him on the Raptors? He was the Heats 3rd best scorer and regulated to that role. The first season in 2011 their half court offense was so spastic. It was like Spoelstra just gave Lebron and Wade the ball and said...okay, do yo thang playas. They got better as a TEAM because they finally started playing some organized ball...not just Lebron, Wade, and to a lesser extent Bosh taking turns doing their thing. Bosh was always going to be the 3rd option. Lebron and wade were literally the two best players in the league in 2010...

I really dont know what the hell your problem is.

[RRR3]

I'll say it again in 2012 when Wade was out 15 games Bosh put up ~25/7 with LeBron. He was the goddamn third option otherwise you guys are freaking retarded.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade during the 2011/2012 Regular Season injured himself and had 2 large stretches of games he missed.

Those are, the games from 2nd Janury-9th January, and 13th January-27th January.

Bosh in these 2 stretches without Wade, as 2ND OPTION AND WITH LeBron, put up these Numbers:

http://i.gyazo.com/7bb9a6d2867e28a50a1f4601bee7a5e1.png

24 PPG / 8 RPG / 3 APG on 52% (3 Games, 3-0 Record)

http://i.gyazo.com/f0b34f406966497a29e12bdb6b907fda.png

27 PPG / 7 RPG / 3 APG on 63% (6 Games, 5-1 Record)

As you can see, the problem has never been playing with/without LeBron James, or Dwyane Wade. Bosh has always been around the same Individual, although now his Mindset will be changed again.

It's the natural changes of touches, shots and agression that changes between being a 1st, 2nd or 3rd option... Bosh during his first 4 years with the Miami Heat and LeBron/Wade, thrived without Wade as 2nd option, without LeBron as 2nd option, and without either as 1st option... Had big games of dropping 30+.

It's normal and nothing to be made a big deal of. In fact, Bosh was fantastic as 2nd option next to LeBron, shooting a career high in efficiency, while having a high volume/point total and the team WINNING GAMES.

[DatAsh]

But lebron didn't make Bosh worse, he just limited his output, which is kind of what happens when you play with the greatest player in the game.


People don't understand roles. Worse stats = worse player in most people's head.

[3ball]

lebron took the ball out of Bosh's hands.... but let's not act like he HAD to do that.

lebron could have played off-ball more.

he didn't HAVE to dominate the ball as much as point guards and more than any non-point guard... :confusedshrug:
.

[3ball]

Saying Lebron made him worse is absurd.
lebron made bosh be a floor-spreader, which took him away from the basket - he only got 1.2 offensive rebounds last year, after averaging between 2.6 and 2.9 in Toronto.

so right there, we know that lebron forcing bosh to be a floor-spreader made bosh a worse offensive rebounder.

oh, then there is the whole forcing bosh to be a floor-spreader - lebron's ball-dominance from the forward position made the Heat a very dribble-happy team, because Chalmers and Wade still dominated the ball too sometimes... So with THREE guys dominating the ball, there was no time left for bosh to get his touches, so he could only do the thing that required the least time with the ball - spotting up and floor-spreading.

it's called Lebron-Ball... not a fun sport for those forced to play..
.

[PJR]

Noow you get it.. and all this time I was just a troll.

Child please. This wasn't something I didn't know. :no:

Any logical person was observant of the sacrifice Bosh had to make to start his Miami career.

With that being said, he still couldve rebounded a bit better, but he's simply not that type of guy. And that's ok. This year he will be in his element.

[Just2McFly]

Bosh is the type of guy who needs touches to remain engaged into the game. He's ultra skilled, and is of a star caliber.

Not every guy can remain engaged on defense and on the boards without consistent offensive opportunities. Basketball is a game of rhythm.
I get your point but at the end of the day dude was getting a max contract.... effort and focus shouldn't have been based off of how much he got the ball and we all know Bosh got touches especially in those early years right along the elbow and all he did was take fadeaways

[Smoke117]

Is it?

lebron made bosh be a floor-spreader, which took him away from the basket - he only got 1.2 offensive rebounds last year, after averaging between 2.6 and 2.9 in Toronto.

so right there, we know that lebron forcing bosh to be a floor-spreader made bosh a worse offensive rebounder.

oh, then there is the whole forcing bosh to be a floor-spreader - lebron's ball-dominance from the forward position made the Heat a very dribble-happy team, because Chalmers and Wade still dominated the ball too sometimes... So with THREE guys dominating the ball, there was no time left for bosh to get his touches, so he could only do the thing that required the least time with the ball - spotting up and floor-spreading.

it's called Lebron-Ball... not a fun sport those who are forced to play..

Didn't read past the Is it, but you keep on typing. Bosh knew what he was signing on for. He signed to play with the TWO BEST PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE. He knew he was not going to be getting touches like he did on the Raptors and he was fine with it. The team WON CHAMPIONSHIPS in 12 and 13 because Spoelstra smartened up and designated roles finally. If all we rate a player is by his stats...then yes, Lebron made him worse. Are you happy mother fukcer?

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade during the 2011/2012 Regular Season injured himself and had 2 large stretches of games he missed.

Those are, the games from 2nd Janury-9th January, and 13th January-27th January.

Bosh in these 2 stretches without Wade, as 2ND OPTION AND WITH LeBron, put up these Numbers:

http://i.gyazo.com/7bb9a6d2867e28a50a1f4601bee7a5e1.png

24 PPG / 8 RPG / 3 APG on 52% (3 Games, 3-0 Record)

http://i.gyazo.com/f0b34f406966497a29e12bdb6b907fda.png

27 PPG / 7 RPG / 3 APG on 63% (6 Games, 5-1 Record)

As you can see, the problem has never been playing with/without LeBron James, or Dwyane Wade. Bosh has always been around the same Individual, although now his Mindset will be changed again.

It's the natural changes of touches, shots and agression that changes between being a 1st, 2nd or 3rd option... Bosh during his first 4 years with the Miami Heat and LeBron/Wade, thrived without Wade as 2nd option, without LeBron as 2nd option, and without either as 1st option... Had big games of dropping 30+.

It's normal and nothing to be made a big deal of. In fact, Bosh was fantastic as 2nd option next to LeBron, shooting a career high in efficiency, while having a high volume/point total and the team WINNING GAMES.

Just quote this... It's "/thread" material.

[3ball]

Any logical person was observant of the sacrifice Bosh had to make to start his Miami career.


why is it that guys who play with lebron have to sacrifice, but guys that played with jordan did not?

did pippen ever have to sacrifice?

so why does bosh have to sacrifice?

by saying bosh HAS to sacrifice, you are saying that Lebron HAS to dominate the ball.

why can't he dominate the ball 28% less like durant for example, and have those touches to go bosh?

i'll take a guess - because lebron's teams play lebron-ball... that's just the way it is.

[PJR]

Bosh had to cede touches to both James and Wade. Stop with the nonsensical agenda.

[tpols]

Child please. This wasn't something I didn't know. :no:

Any logical person was observant of the sacrifice Bosh had to make to start his Miami career.

With that being said, he still couldve rebounded a bit better, but he's simply not that type of guy. And that's ok. This year he will be in his element.

:lol Its funny how you heat fans have taken a 180 on lebron since he left.

[Smoke117]

:lol Its funny how you heat fans have taken a 180 on lebron since he left.

Name me five heat fans that "have taken a 180 on lebron since he left." I'll wait.

[BigBoss]

If Lebron was a final fantasy character he would have a magic attack called " Absorb Stats".

[dubeta]

If Lebron was a final fantasy character he would have a magic attack called " Absorb Stats".

This nikka plays final fantasy :roll:

[3ball]

Bosh had to cede touches to both James and Wade. Stop with the nonsensical agenda.
Lebron's ball-dominance from the forward spot crowded the primary ballhandler role, since Chalmers and Wade dominated the ball as well sometimes.

With THREE guys on miami dominating the ball, there was no time for Bosh to get his touches or hold on to the ball... there was only time for him to floor-spread.

If Lebron wasn't the most ball-dominant wing in the league, that would give Bosh more touches.. this is not really disputable.

[Done_And_Done]

This game is all about plugging in roles and excelling at said given role. There's only so much ball to go around and in this case Bosh now has more free will and responsibility to score. Quit looking passed the obvious to garner a reaction on an NBA message board...

[Heavincent]

Name me five heat fans

:confusedshrug:

[Keno]

one fluke game against a garbage wizards team. not impressed.

[AirFederer]

The offense was designed to spread the floor for Wade and LeBron to drive and kick it out to shooters. Now I'm not saying LeBron turned him into a scrub or anything. That was just the scheme.

Excactly.
And you never heard Bosh complain, he`s also a two time champion.

[knicksman]

If you have a 3rd option better than gasol yet couldnt win more than 2 rings, then you know you made your team worse.

[pauk]

It's a team sport. Bosh is the one who got the offensive rebound, passed it to Ray Allen, and blocked Danny Green to seal the game.

The game was only tied with 5-6 sec to go, where Parker had a chance to hit the gamewinning shot but got shut down by Lebron, where yet again Lebron sealed the game in OT & continued to seal the series.... I know you are butthurt now all of the sudden that Lebron left you, but either you grow up or join the Kobetard army here....

[pauk]

As far as this thread goes, ofcourse his stats will go up if he doesnt play with Lebron.... just like Wesbrooks stats will go up without Durant.... just like Kobes stats went up without Shaq.... just like any superstar in NBA history went out and logically freed up more possessions for other guys.....

Does that mean its good for the team? Does that mean they are better without the teams best player running the show?

I mean, if "Bran" truly made Bosh worse, meaning he is better now, shouldnt that mean he should have greater impact on the team hence the outcome of better team success resulting in at least a 27 game winning streak, Finals appearance or better yet Championship? :confusedshrug:

[Paul George 24]

lebran was always a cancer to any star player,eg,larry hudges,jamison,bosh,wade :lol

[Paul George 24]

As far as this thread goes, ofcourse his stats will go up if he doesnt play with Lebron.... just like Wesbrooks stats will go up without Durant.... just like Kobes stats went up without Shaq.... just like any superstar in NBA history went out and logically freed up more possessions for other guys.....

Does that mean its good for the team? Does that mean they are better without the teams best player running the show?

I mean, if "Bran" truly made Bosh worse, meaning he is better now, shouldnt that mean he should have greater impact on the team hence the outcome of better team success resulting in at least a 27 game winning streak, Finals appearance or better yet Championship? :confusedshrug:

lebron is lcukly to have bosh and wade who lead him to get 2 rings :lol

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

OFC he was poor Bosh had to turn into a 3pt shooter and was so far away from the basket to grab boards:facepalm :facepalm
Lebron is a master at turning players into spotup 3pt shooters so he can use his one dimensional playmaking drive and dish to set up teammates and set up his scoring

[pauk]

OFC he was poor Bosh had to turn into a 3pt shooter and was so far away from the basket to grab boards:facepalm :facepalm
Lebron is a master at turning players into spotup 3pt shooters so he can use his one dimensional playmaking drive and dish to set up teammates and set up his scoring

lol, yea, im sure he would have loved to trade 4 straight Finals appearances & 2 Championships so he can play without Lebron, in Toronto, where he can "be better" again, be himself again.... just like in Toronto..... literally.... just like in Toronto, where he missed playoffs every year or luckily somehow got in once there and got killed in 1st round, where the exact same thing will continue to happen right now in Miami....... Im sure thats why he begged to play with Lebron & im sure thats why he waited for Lebrons decision this year before he made a decision........

[BigTicket]

Why do people confuse lower stats with being worse ?

Did Duncan make Ginobili and Parker worse ? I don't think anyone would make that claim, but at the same time it should also be obvious, that both those guys could have had much higher stats, if they were the leader on a weaker team.

And if you look at Bosh now, he's obviously just as good as he was in Toronto, so he did not get worse. What he got is fewer touches because the team was loaded, but that's not at all the same as being worse.

[#number6ix#]

Why is everybody saying lebron made bosh spot up like he was the one coaching and making making game plans... If anything wade benefited more than lebron due to fact that wade is a terrible 3 point shooter

[Bigsmoke]

Bosh wasn't averaging 27ppg when Wade was out in that 2012 season :biggums:

[Bigsmoke]

OFC he was poor Bosh had to turn into a 3pt shooter and was so far away from the basket to grab boards:facepalm :facepalm
Lebron is a master at turning players into spotup 3pt shooters so he can use his one dimensional playmaking drive and dish to set up teammates and set up his scoring

Mo Williams showed he didn't need LBJ:rolleyes:

[Sarcastic]

Bran still has 0 rings without Bosh, right?

Coulda sworn Bran stans were trying to make every excuse in the world why the Cavs won't win it this year.

[2swift4u]

I'm not surprised to see Bosh having a big game. First of all he's the highest paid player on that team now and needs to be a leader and secondly I think he wanted to make a statement. However I'm not going to be surprised when he'll have some bad games either. He's been like that in the last couple of years. It seems like every time he wants to prove something he steps his game up but he also tends to disappear in some games.

[Nash]

do people understand the fact that there are not unlimited touches in basketball? any players stats would go down playing with Lebron, no coach is stupid enough to let their offense go through somebody else when Lebron is around.

what really shows a players greatness when they go from 1st to 2nd or 3rd option is fg% and how much easier their 1st option makes the game for them.

The 15 rebounds is weird though :lol Dude looked allergic to rebounds last 4 years and was outrebounded all the time.

[HiphopRelated]

do people understand the fact that there are not unlimited touches in basketball? any players stats would go down playing with Lebron, no coach is stupid enough to let their offense go through somebody else when Lebron is around.

what really shows a players greatness when they go from 1st to 2nd or 3rd option is fg% and how much easier their 1st option makes the game for them.

The 15 rebounds is weird though :lol Dude looked allergic to rebounds last 4 years and was outrebounded all the time.
That's why Lebron's fg% increased the most

[Nash]

That's why Lebron's fg% increased the most
technically though lebron was the 1st option and focal point of opposing defense. But you are right, it obviously played a part.

[DukeDelonte13]

do people understand the fact that there are not unlimited touches in basketball? any players stats would go down playing with Lebron, no coach is stupid enough to let their offense go through somebody else when Lebron is around.

what really shows a players greatness when they go from 1st to 2nd or 3rd option is fg% and how much easier their 1st option makes the game for them.

The 15 rebounds is weird though :lol Dude looked allergic to rebounds last 4 years and was outrebounded all the time.


well said.

[r15mohd]

When a forward like Lebron dominates the ball as much as a point guard, that has a trickle down effect because the actual point guard (Chalmers) will still dominate the ball a little just by default of being the actual point guard, and Wade will sneak some touches in there where he dominates the ball too.

So that leaves nothing for Bosh but the very smallest amount of time with the ball - all that's left is to spot up and be a floor-spreader - after all, if Bosh had been allowed to call his own number more, that would have taken away from Lebron's time with the ball, and then maybe Lebron would not have been the most ball-dominant wing, and we can't ever have that.

it's laughable to me that even Bosh himself is on TV saying he did it for the good of the team, when in reality, the Heat sucked last year with everyone out of position, and were exposed in the Finals when their offense was the worst of any Spurs opponent and flat-out couldn't keep up with the Spurs.

Just imagine if Lebron was an off-ball player and had say 28% less time with the ball like Durant had last year - that's 28% of time with the ball that could go to Bosh, and then the Heat would have been far more productive as a team.

the trickle down effect is 4 Finals with 2 Titles. i think the way the Heat played was adequate enough to win, and they did. could they have adjusted to be 4 for 4, certainly could, but don't spit that garbage saying the "trickle down effect" hurt the Heat when they were a COMPLETE success in this 4-year run.

every team, maybe a pass on the Spurs as they're completely involved year in/out with their system, would trade for this situation and how it played out.

in all honesty, Wade hurt this team more than any other player...he was unreliable rather than reliable in what he was supposed to bring to the table. Bosh should have been the 2nd option, involved in Lebron/Bosh PnR's right through. mismatch heaven from this standpoint and favored both Lebron and Bosh in majority of the cases with the switch. 2nd to blame would be Spo and his offensive set/decisions for the team, it worked off talent more than application of the sets.

[Blue&Orange]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10671690&postcount=78


this is beautiful

[Dresta]

Why do people confuse lower stats with being worse ?

Did Duncan make Ginobili and Parker worse ? I don't think anyone would make that claim, but at the same time it should also be obvious, that both those guys could have had much higher stats, if they were the leader on a weaker team.

And if you look at Bosh now, he's obviously just as good as he was in Toronto, so he did not get worse. What he got is fewer touches because the team was loaded, but that's not at all the same as being worse.
No, as Spoelstra said: he's not as good as he was in Toronto, he's better, on the offensive and defensive end. Bron's tendency towards ball-pounding, especially in 2012-14 Heat, most definitely prevented Bosh from showcasing his skills, turning him into little more than a glorified 3 point shooter who plays great team defense.

It didn't turn him into a worse player, but it negatively affected how many perceive his capabilities as a basketball player, particularly Bron stans et al.

[coin24]

do people understand the fact that there are not unlimited touches in basketball? any players stats would go down playing with Lebron, no coach is stupid enough to let their offense go through somebody else when Lebron is around.

what really shows a players greatness when they go from 1st to 2nd or 3rd option is fg% and how much easier their 1st option makes the game for them.

The 15 rebounds is weird though :lol Dude looked allergic to rebounds last 4 years and was outrebounded all the time.


Yes because bran ball equals rings...



2 out of 5 times:lol

[NumberSix]

I been told yall. Bosh is gonna be a legit MVP contender this season.

[HiphopRelated]

the trickle down effect is 4 Finals with 2 Titles. i think the way the Heat played was adequate enough to win, and they did. could they have adjusted to be 4 for 4, certainly could, but don't spit that garbage saying the "trickle down effect" hurt the Heat when they were a COMPLETE success in this 4-year run.

every team, maybe a pass on the Spurs as they're completely involved year in/out with their system, would trade for this situation and how it played out.

in all honesty, Wade hurt this team more than any other player...he was unreliable rather than reliable in what he was supposed to bring to the table. Bosh should have been the 2nd option, involved in Lebron/Bosh PnR's right through. mismatch heaven from this standpoint and favored both Lebron and Bosh in majority of the cases with the switch. 2nd to blame would be Spo and his offensive set/decisions for the team, it worked off talent more than application of the sets.
Wade can play with big men, he always gets them in their spots.

The Wade/Bosh pick and rolls always looked more fluid over the 4 years.

Lebron can play with shooters.

[2swift4u]

Wade can play with big men, he always gets them in their spots.

The Wade/Bosh pick and rolls always looked more fluid over the 4 years.

Lebron can play with shooters.


not sure about that... Lebron's vision is definitely better than Wade's and Lebron can play the pick&roll just as good as Wade if not better.

Bosh doesn't play that much pick&roll anyway since he prefers to pick&pop and shoot the mid range j. He kinda has butterfingers too so he's not the best player when it comes to catching passes on the move.

[Wally450]

Its not that LeBron made Bosh worse, because as others in this thread have already said, there's only so many touches and shots to go around. Obviously LeBron and Wade are gonna get more shots than Bosh. Bosh played that #3 role great IMO.

What's funny is that LeBron stans said that Bosh wouldn't be able to go back to his Toronto days of averaging 24/10, he'd only put up 19/7. I'm not saying he's gonna average 26/15, but he is clearly capable of putting up Toronto type numbers this year.

[Bigsmoke]

If you have a 3rd option better than gasol yet couldnt win more than 2 rings, then you know you made your team worse.
How is Bosh better than prime Gasol?

[HurricaneKid]

Wait. Bosh shredded Drew Gooden and its an I told you so? I'd shred Drew Gooden.

Nene was suspended for the game because he came off the bench in a preseason game. Do that against Nene and you will get my attention.

[PJR]

Wait. Bosh shredded Drew Gooden and its an I told you so? I'd shred Drew Gooden.

Nene was suspended for the game because he came off the bench in a preseason game. Do that against Nene and you will get my attention.

Fool, shut up. You're acting as if last night was some sort of anomaly. As as if the dude isn't a 9 time all star off his own merit. :facepalm

And last time I checked, Marcin Gortat was the Wizards starting center last night (Wizards best rim protecter). And he was getting cooked by Bosh....

[Qwyjibo]

Yes because bran ball equals rings...



2 out of 5 times:lol
I still find it hilarious that some people think that being on teams that won 2 titles and made it to the Finals 5 times is a bad thing.

Then I remember that some of the biggest morons on the internet post on this board and everything makes sense again.

[Frozen1]

That's what happens when you play Lebron ball, everyone out of their confort zone and position just to Lebron get his stats.

[HiphopRelated]

not sure about that... Lebron's vision is definitely better than Wade's and Lebron can play the pick&roll just as good as Wade if not better.

Bosh doesn't play that much pick&roll anyway since he prefers to pick&pop and shoot the mid range j. He kinda has butterfingers too so he's not the best player when it comes to catching passes on the move.
Vision for the drive and kick yes.

Interior passing and feeding the post, Wade's better.

[Jailblazers7]

so now we know what ISH will be like all season if Bosh has a good game.

[kamil]

Reading the responses from furious LeBron* nut huggers is a lot of fun.

LOL @ believing LeBron* has made anyone better.

[FLDFSU]

I am confused. If Lebron make teammates worse

Why in the world then is everyone picking the Bulls or the Cavs (:roll: ) to win the East?

1. Heat are historically stacked (deep and talented)
2. Heat no longer have to play "Lebron ball" thereby making everyone better
3. Heat got Deng (all-star) to replace Lebron
4. Heat have a championship coaching staff
5. Cavs now have to play "Lebron ball" thereby limiting the impact of Love (and with Irving they were already a 33 win team)

How in the hell does that equal the Cavs winning the East?

[AnaheimLakers24]

bosh should have been 1st option the last 4 years. bran robbed him of 2 rings

[AnaheimLakers24]

I am confused. If Lebron make teammates worse

Why in the world then is everyone picking the Bulls or the Cavs (:roll: ) to win the East?

1. Heat are historically stacked (deep and talented)
2. Heat no longer have to play "Lebron ball" thereby making everyone better
3. Heat got Deng (all-star) to replace Lebron
4. Heat have a championship coaching staff
5. Cavs now have to play "Lebron ball" thereby limiting the impact of Love (and with Irving they were already a 33 win team)

How in the hell does that equal the Cavs winning the East?
im sure you can come up with more excuses

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I am confused. If Lebron make teammates worse

Why in the world then is everyone picking the Bulls or the Cavs (:roll: ) to win the East?

1. Heat are historically stacked (deep and talented)
2. Heat no longer have to play "Lebron ball" thereby making everyone better
3. Heat got Deng (all-star) to replace Lebron
4. Heat have a championship coaching staff
5. Cavs now have to play "Lebron ball" thereby limiting the impact of Love (and with Irving they were already a 33 win team)

How in the hell does that equal the Cavs winning the East?

Because they don't think Wade & co. can stay healthy. If attrition ain't a factor, Miami is still a contender.

[FLDFSU]

Because they don't think Wade & co. can stay healthy. If attrition ain't a factor, Miami is still a contender.

Wade missed a bunch of games last year. Per ISH, the Heat are a better team this year than last year. So even if Wade cannot stay healthy, that should not stop us from contending this year with a better team.

Now if more people than Wade start missing games we have a problem. But why would people assume that other than Wade, the Heat cannot stay healthy?

[3ball]

I am confused.


let me help you out a little bit.

24/12 > 16/6

i don't know why it's so hard to understand that lebron dominating the ball in order to get his while bosh is marginalized, is not as good as lebron allowing BOTH players to achieve their maximum production by not dominating the ball.

jordan did this with pippen - pippen was allowed to achieve his maximum production capacity because jordan got his buckets playing off-ball... the team benefitted more by having BOTH players get their max production, than if jordan would have dominated the ball and marginalized pippen's production.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Wade missed a bunch of games last year. Per ISH, the Heat are a better team this year than last year. So even if Wade cannot stay healthy, that should not stop us from contending this year with a better team.

If Wade can stay healthy, he and Bosh are gonna play great with one another. Could lead into a better offense without LeBron (one less guy to monopolize possessions) because of Wade's similar on-ball dominance. Without Wade, this doesn't happen though.

Unless of course, you think Deng > LeBron. That is a different discussion all together.

[FLDFSU]

let me help you out a little bit.

24/12 > 16/6

i don't know why it's so hard to understand that lebron dominating the ball in order to get his while bosh is marginalized, is not as good as lebron allowing BOTH players to achieve their maximum production by not dominating the ball.

jordan did this with pippen - pippen was allowed to achieve his maximum production capacity because jordan got his buckets playing off-ball... the team benefitted more by having BOTH players get their max production, than if jordan would have dominated the ball and marginalized pippen's production.

Right. I agree. Which is why the Heat will be representing the East for a 5th straight time.

"Lebron ball" makes the team worse. The Heat were already stacked, and by losing Lebron (and "Lebron ball") the Heat have gotten better by subtraction.

The Cavs, while they have added Love and Irving has another year under his belt, and therefore improved--have added James, and therefore now Love and Irving are now worse players.

How does this add up to the Cavs (33 wins last season in a bad conference) winning the East for an improved Heat team?

[FLDFSU]

If Wade can stay healthy, he and Bosh are gonna play great with one another. Could lead into a better offense without LeBron (one less guy to monopolize possessions) because of Wade's similar on-ball dominance. Without Wade, this doesn't happen though.

Unless of course, you think Deng > LeBron. That is a different discussion all together.

Lets say that Wade misses the exact same games this year as he did last year. And Bosh plays the same, Cole, Haslem, Rio all play the same amount of games this year too. Deng plays the same amount of games as James did.

The Heat should still win more games this year as overall the Heat, per ISH, are a better team than last year because the Heat is sans "Lebron ball."

And if Wade comes back for the playoff run this year, as he did last year, I cannot see how the Heat would lose to another Eastern conference team.

I am not sure we would stack up against the Spurs but we damn sure are better than a 33 win Cavs team that just added "Lebron ball."

[3ball]

not sure you get it FLSFU

[3ball]

Right. I agree. Which is why the Heat will be representing the East for a 5th straight time.

"Lebron ball" makes the team worse. The Heat were already stacked, and by losing Lebron (and "Lebron ball") the Heat have gotten better by subtraction.


No one said Lebron-ball makes a team worse... Put the best player in the league on ANY team, and they will get better.

What you aren't understanding is that Lebron-ball makes a team underachieve.... THAT'S the point.

2011, along with 2/4 is an underachievement when you have 3 All-NBA players on your team, including the best SG, SF and PF.

So the Heat underachieved, even last year.

Their team had better talent than the Spurs, but the Heat were playing Lebron-ball, while the Spurs were playing optimally.

Do you get it now?

[tmacattack33]

Both Bosh and Wade had problems being consistent and staying healthy.

Wade showed flashes of greatness all the time last year...the problem was that it would only last a game or so.

Let's see what Bosh and Wade do a couple months into the year.

[r15mohd]

No one said Lebron-ball makes a team worse... Put the best player in the league on ANY team, and they will get better.

What you aren't understanding is that Lebron-ball makes a team underachieve.... THAT'S the point.

2011, along with 2/4 is an underachievement when you have 3 All-NBA players on your team, including the best SG, SF and PF.

So the Heat underachieved, even last year.

Their team had better talent than the Spurs, but the Heat were playing Lebron-ball, while the Spurs were playing optimally.

Do you get it now?


4 straight finals and 2 titles is now an under-achievement. exactly how many teams do this in the NBA? :facepalm

Fact of the matter comes to this - Lebron-ball has been proven to get you to the Finals at a 45% rate, 5 out of 11 years. only other system that can match (likely beat it) is the triangle offense. keep the comparison's going tho...you even spouting the Heat had a more talented team than the Spurs show you don't "get" it...talent on paper vs talent on the court. Spurs were easily the better team, through and through

[FLDFSU]

not sure you get it FLSFU

I am really trying to figure out the logic.

Let me ask a simple question:

How are the Heat a better team this year than last year but yet not the best team in the conference this year?

[3ball]

I am really trying to figure out the logic.

Let me ask a simple question:

How are the Heat a better team this year than last year but yet not the best team in the conference this year?
well, they aren't better than they were last year... at least i doubt they are.. maybe they could be.

but the point is that they underachieved last year... not as bad as 2011, but still underachieved.

you or i could have replaced lebron in the Finals last year and the result would have been the same - record defeat.

[r15mohd]

well, they aren't better than they were last year... at least i doubt they are.. maybe they could be.

but the point is that they underachieved last year... not as bad as 2011, but still underachieved.

you or i could have replaced lebron in the Finals last year and the result would have been the same - record defeat.


that record defeat lied on Lebron only, and Lebron-ball? what about Wade's no-show, Bosh's disappearance? Why was it that Chris Anderson outshined both Wade and Bosh in the Finals when he was a bench player throughout the season? nothing drastically changed...no one stepped up but Lebron and Birdman, you are delusional! :facepalm

is there anymore lies you'd like to throw in this?

[FLDFSU]

No one said Lebron-ball makes a team worse... Put the best player in the league on ANY team, and they will get better.

What you aren't understanding is that Lebron-ball makes a team underachieve.... THAT'S the point.

2011, along with 2/4 is an underachievement when you have 3 All-NBA players on your team, including the best SG, SF and PF.

So the Heat underachieved, even last year.

Their team had better talent than the Spurs, but the Heat were playing Lebron-ball, while the Spurs were playing optimally.

Do you get it now?

So now that the Heat will not "underachieve" and the Cavs will now "underachieve" how does that make the Cavs better than the Heat--who despite "underachieving" won the East last year?

Even if I accept your premise that the Heat "underachieved" presumably the Heat will reach their full potential this season.

So reaching our full potential will lead to a championship...

[3ball]

you are delusional


actually, all i did was point out an interesting fact.

you are delusional for denying such an obvious fact.

FACT: replace lebron with you or me in last year's Finals, and the result is the same - record defeat.

Lebron's performance of 28ppg, no passing, and no defense was completely impactless...

it's actually a travesty - because in order to get these impactless stats, he marginalized bosh and wade.
.

[FLDFSU]

well, they aren't better than they were last year... at least i doubt they are.. maybe they could be.

but the point is that they underachieved last year... not as bad as 2011, but still underachieved.

you or i could have replaced lebron in the Finals last year and the result would have been the same - record defeat.

That doesn't make any logically sense.

Lebron-ball causes teams to underachieve. You replace Lebron-ball and get a team of Cole, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, etc. (who already won a Championship with the underachieving Lebron-ball) reaching their full potential--and you replace the negative (Lebron) with an All-star Deng.

Yet somehow this doesn't lead to a better overall team?

And moreover, this somehow leads to a 33 win Cavs team (who yes added Love but once again Lebron-ball will limit his true impact) who will now underachieve to being better than the Heat-a team that underachieved last year all the way to the Finals.

[tpols]

4 straight finals and 2 titles is now an under-achievement. exactly how many teams do this in the NBA? :facepalm


How many times have the two best players from the same conference teamed up? And added an all star PF to the mix as well?

[toneloc103]

well, Bosh was a 24/12 guy before Lebron... and he appears to be that and more after Lebron....

so no, he wasn't carried, apparently he was held down by Lebron.

facts are facts my good student.

Wow.. based off one game. bosh was and still is soft. Dont get carried away by one game.

[tpols]

Even if I accept your premise that the Heat "underachieved" presumably the Heat will reach their full potential this season.

So reaching our full potential will lead to a championship...

You arent following the guy along at all.

Lebron James is really good. If you take him off a team they will get worse.

However, he wasnt getting the most out of his teammates. Hes so good as an individual talent that he ussually can make up the difference himself when one of his teammates, like bosh for example, underperforms because hes forced to sit in a corner the whole game to accomodate Lebrons driving game.

The point is.. you would expect a team with Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Lebron and stacked role players to win more than two championships together. And they were literally one shot away from 1 title.

Everyone thought theyd dominate the league but they had severe chemistry issues in 2011, almost another implosio in 2013, and the leadership during those 2014 Finals was EMBARRASSING. Lebron didnt even attempt to rally his troops. He has poor relationships with his teammates.. Bosh wont even talk to him.

The Heat couldve been infinitely more dominant with an off ball floor spreading SF like say Larry Bird.. who wouldve turned bosh into a 20/10 machine and let Wade do his thing.

[FLDFSU]

How many times have the two best players from the same conference teamed up? And added an all star PF to the mix as well?

Boston came close enough.

[SouBeachTalents]

You arent following the guy along at all.

Lebron James is really good. If you take him off a team they will get worse.

However, he wasnt getting the most out of his teammates. Hes so good as an individual talent that he ussually can make up the difference himself when one of his teammates, like bosh for example, underperforms because hes forced to sit in a corner the whole game to accomodate Lebrons driving game.

The point is.. you would expect a team with Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Lebron and stacked role players to win more than two championships together.


And they were literally one shot away from 1 title.

The Heat couldve been infinitely more dominant with an off ball floor spreading SF like say Larry Bird.. bwho wouldve turned bosh into mchale and let Wade do his thing.

The 00-02 Lakers had two top 10 players all time in their primes and the arguable GOAT coach, yet they came pretty damn close to winning just two titles as well, arguably only one

[stalkerforlife]

We've been saying it all along...

Bosh is a superstar.

Wade is a superstar when healthy.

Lebron and company just wanted to diminish those guys to build Lebron up.

[Jacks3]

lol

I'm not really a fan of LeBron but some of you are just moronic. The Heat in 2013 and 2014 had the best eFG% in NBA history. They were historically good offensively. Who gives a damn if Bosh puts up better numbers if the offense as whole sees a massive dropoff, which will almost certainly be the case.

Bran haters might be more idiotic and illogical than the Bryant detractors and thats saying something.

[3ball]

The 00-02 Lakers had two top 10 players all time in their primes and the arguable GOAT coach, yet they came pretty damn close to winning just two titles as well, arguably only one
hmmm.. reaching a little bit here imo.

in 2000, the lakers came back from 15 down in the 4th against portland and won going away - they didn't need a last second shot.

in 2002, sure, they got very lucky like lebron did in 2013.

and the heat had 3 top 10 players, not 2... (bosh is a top 10 player, you just couldn't tell alongside lebron).

[tpols]

The 00-02 Lakers had two top 10 players all time in their primes and the arguable GOAT coach, yet they came pretty damn close to winning just two titles as well, arguably only one

They still 3 peated. But your kinda making the point for me.

Prime wade/lebron/bosh ~= young Kobe/shaq

Both teams had clutch shooters, top guys in the organization who knew how to win and build champions, etc


The talent between early 2000 lakers and early 2010 Heat is pretty much the same. The Lakers had tougher roads to go through as the west was stacked to hell in those years while the east was garbage for the entirety of the Heats run. Yet the Lakers won more and, at their best, in much more dominant and convincing fashion.

[FLDFSU]

You arent following the guy along at all.

Lebron James is really good. If you take him off a team they will get worse.

However, he wasnt getting the most out of his teammates. Hes so good as an individual talent that he ussually can make up the difference himself when one of his teammates, like bosh for example, underperforms because hes forced to sit in a corner the whole game to accomodate Lebrons driving game.

The point is.. you would expect a team with Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Lebron and stacked role players to win more than two championships together. And they were literally one shot away from 1 title.

Everyone thought theyd dominate the league but they had severe chemistry issues in 2011, almost another implosio in 2013, and the leadership during those 2014 Finals was EMBARRASSING. Lebron didnt even attempt to rally his troops. He has poor relationships with his teammates.. Bosh wont even talk to him.

The Heat couldve been infinitely more dominant with an off ball floor spreading SF like say Larry Bird.. who wouldve turned into a 20/10 machine and let Wade do his thing.

So basically, Lebron's negative impact overall leads to a team that this year is predicted to finish anywhere from 4th to missing the playoffs-his impact leads that team to "underachieve to the Finals."

Lebron-ball is so negative that Cleveland/Miami and others are waiting on pins and needles for his decision so they can "underachieve"?

Lebron-ball is so negative that it leads Kevin Love to finally approve his trade to the Cavs so he too may "underachieve"?

Why in the world is Blatt pleased that underachieving Lebron-ball is coming to his first NBA Head coaching opportunity?

Let me ask you a question: Do you think the 76ers would like to "underachieve" with Lebron-ball?

Surely the 76ers will not like to "underachieve"?

[Frozen1]

So basically, Lebron's negative impact overall leads to a team that this year is predicted to finish anywhere from 4th to missing the playoffs-his impact leads that team to "underachieve to the Finals."

Lebron-ball is so negative that Cleveland/Miami and others are waiting on pins and needles for his decision so they can "underachieve"?

Lebron-ball is so negative that it leads Kevin Love to finally approve his trade to the Cavs so he too may "underachieve"?

Why in the world is Blatt pleased that underachieving Lebron-ball is coming to his first NBA Head coaching opportunity?

Let me ask you a question: Do you think the 76ers would like to "underachieve" with Lebron-ball?

Surely the 76ers will not like to "underachieve"?

Given the circumstances Heat underachieved, they had no business in losing to Dallas and to a old spurs team. In the miami heat, lebron ball made the team underachive.

That's the truth, so stay mad f.uckboy.

[FLDFSU]

You arent following the guy along at all.

Lebron James is really good. If you take him off a team they will get worse.

However, he wasnt getting the most out of his teammates. Hes so good as an individual talent that he ussually can make up the difference himself when one of his teammates, like bosh for example, underperforms because hes forced to sit in a corner the whole game to accomodate Lebrons driving game.

The point is.. you would expect a team with Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Lebron and stacked role players to win more than two championships together. And they were literally one shot away from 1 title.

Everyone thought theyd dominate the league but they had severe chemistry issues in 2011, almost another implosio in 2013, and the leadership during those 2014 Finals was EMBARRASSING. Lebron didnt even attempt to rally his troops. He has poor relationships with his teammates.. Bosh wont even talk to him.

The Heat couldve been infinitely more dominant with an off ball floor spreading SF like say Larry Bird.. who wouldve turned bosh into a 20/10 machine and let Wade do his thing.

1. Everyone that that theyd dominate the league so much in 2011 that the Heat weren't even picked to win the Finals (Lakers were) or even win the Conference (Boston was).

2. So now that the Heat have Wade, Bosh and a stacked supporting cast (I mean it is the same team), the Heat will win the championship this year, right?

[tpols]

So basically, Lebron's negative impact overall leads to a team that this year is predicted to finish anywhere from 4th to missing the playoffs-his impact leads that team to "underachieve to the Finals."

Lebron-ball is so negative that Cleveland/Miami and others are waiting on pins and needles for his decision so they can "underachieve"?


This doesnt make any sense..

Lebron on a team is better than Lebron NOT on a team. No one has argued otherwise. Hes a GOAT level individual talent.


But.. heres the thing. All this time in Miami, everyone was tearing Bosh apart.

Saying hes soft, gay, sucks at rebounding and scoring, 0 points in a finals game etc.

Theyve been ripping Wade as a player as well. Saying he sucks, is washed up, cant play anymore, etc.

For a stretch in the 2013 eastern playoffs the Heat were coined the 'Miami Cavaliers'. That happened.


But, were starting to see glimpses of what Bosh really is like as a player. Hes not going to put up what he put up last night every night. But he also wont be putting up 14/8.

Hes more involved.. hes more motivated.. hes being used in a way that can allow him to fully express his game now that he doesnt have to just launch a couple long shots a game and barely dribble or feel the ball.

Lebron made these guys look worse than they actually ARE. What dont you get about that?

[SouBeachTalents]

Given the circumstances Heat underachieved, they had no business in losing to Dallas and to a old spurs team. In the miami heat, lebron ball made the team underachive.

That's the truth, so stay mad f.uckboy.

:facepalm That same old Spurs team many are calling one of the greatest teams of all time?

[3ball]

They still 3 peated. But your kinda making the point for me.

Prime wade/lebron/bosh ~= young Kobe/shaq

Both teams had clutch shooters, top guys in the organization who knew how to win and build champions, etc


The talent between early 2000 lakers and early 2010 Heat is pretty much the same. The Lakers had tougher roads to go through as the west was stacked to hell in those years while the east was garbage for the entirety of the Heats run. Yet the Lakers won more and, at their best, in much more dominant and convincing fashion.
agreed... you can't compare the heat to shaq/kobe lakers - the lakers were far more dominant and played far better competition in their championship runs through the West.

and i actually think the Heat were more talented (just had a way crappier system)... to make it simple, let's assume that Shaq and Lebron cancel each other out...

Then in 2011, Wade was better than a young Kobe, and about as good as Lebron (actually, much better than Lebron in the Finals that year).... and then the Heat still have Bosh dangling out there with no partner from the Lakers to match - and Bosh is at least a top 15 player without Lebron on the team; he'll probably be top 10 this year and all-nba.

but the lakers were still way more dominant because they had a far superior system (just like the Spurs also had less talent but a better system).

[FLDFSU]

This doesnt make any sense..

Lebron on a team is better than Lebron NOT on a team. No one has argued otherwise. Hes a GOAT level individual talent.


But.. heres the thing. All this time in Miami, everyone was tearing Bosh apart.

Saying hes soft, gay, sucks at rebounding and scoring, 0 points in a finals game etc.

Theyve been ripping Wade as a player as well. Saying he sucks, is washed up, cant play anymore, etc.

For a stretch in the 2013 eastern playoffs the Heat were coined the 'Miami Cavaliers'. That happened.


But, were starting to see glimpses of what Bosh really is like as a player. Hes not going to put up what he put up last night every night. But he also wont be putting up 14/8.

Hes more involved.. hes more motivated.. hes being used in a way that can allow him to fully express his game now that he doesnt have to just launch a couple long shots a game and barely dribble or feel the ball.

Lebron made these guys look worse than they actually ARE. What dont you get about that?

So then why do we care that Bosh underachieved in Miami with Lebron if that leads to a better product/result?

Why do we care that Lin is underachieving in LA with Kobe if that leads to a better product/result?

To use your words, why do we care that a generational talent is not subordinating himself to a Bosh---who presumably is not a generational talent?

To use someone else in this thread, why do we care if a lesser talent (Bosh) is now going to get more opportunities if that leads to a lesser product/result?

Should Peyton Manning throw the ball less to allow his RB to reach their full potential? If reaching that full potential leads to a worse record for the Broncos?

[tpols]

So then why do we care that Bosh underachieved in Miami with Lebron if that leads to a better product/result?


To use your words, why do we care that a generational talent is not subordinating himself to a Bosh---who presumably is not a generational talent?


Because if Lebron had been able to accomodate Bosh more while still maintaining his high level of play the Heat would have been far more dominant!

Yes they eeked out two championships.. but based on their talent levels they shouldve dominated more than they did.

You put Magic Johnson or Larry Bird on this team and Bosh is a 20/10 player playing at peak confidence. Theyd sweep the east every year.

With Lebron you have them complaining about touches in game 6 of the ECF!

What dont you get? The team was very good, but they couldve been better.


Comparing it to peyton manning is asinine.. he actually makes recievers have way better stats than they otherwise would. Lebron does the opposite.

[FLDFSU]

And one more point.

The most ironic thing of course, is that if Lebron did subordinate himself any further in Miami to Bosh or Wade, you SAME people would complain that he is not taking on enough of the burden that his individual talent demands.

There is a poster who is running around complaining that Lebron didn't take on enough responsibilities during the Finals. Something like Lebron only took 1/5 of his teams shots which means he was not assertive enough.

It just never ends...

[r15mohd]

Because if Lebron had been able to accomodate Bosh more while still maintaining his high level of play the Heat would have been far more dominant!

Yes they eeked out two championships.. but based on their talent levels they shouldve dominated more than they did.

You put Magic Johnson or Larry Bird on this team and Bosh is a 20/10 player playing at peak confidence. Theyd sweep the east every year.

With Lebron you have them complaining about touches in game 6 of the ECF!

What dont you get? The team was very good, but they couldve been better.


Comparing it to peyton manning is asinine.. he actually makes recievers have way better stats than they otherwise would. Lebron does the opposite.

this just returns back to there never being enough touches available to please everyone...Bosh utilized more, Wade diminishes and the same posters complain how Lebron-ball ruined Wade

it's a never-ending circle for many...and to reiterate that 2 for 4 is an underachievement, then I'd ask you to show me how many teams have done this, since it's so easily attainable. 1 per decade, on average.

you replace Lebron with Magic, and the Heat's defense suffers and dont beat the Bulls, Celtics or Pacers in respective years. Lebron does more than just steer the offense. people tend to forget this...he anchors both sides of the court.

still can't fathom this "underachievement" talk...anything to discredit Lebron and what he did in Miami. :no:

[FLDFSU]

Because if Lebron had been able to accomodate Bosh more while still maintaining his high level of play the Heat would have been far more dominant!

Yes they eeked out two championships.. but based on their talent levels they shouldve dominated more than they did.

You put Magic Johnson or Larry Bird on this team and Bosh is a 20/10 player playing at peak confidence. Theyd sweep the east every year.

With Lebron you have them complaining about touches in game 6 of the ECF!

What dont you get? The team was very good, but they couldve been better.


Comparing it to peyton manning is asinine.. he actually makes recievers have way better stats than they otherwise would. Lebron does the opposite.

And if Peyton Manning figures out a way to accommodate his running back his team would be far more dominate! :eek:

Based on the Thunder's talent level they should dominate more. Could you imagine how great of a team that would be if they figured out how to accommodate the talents of a reggie jackson more? :eek:

And if you put KG on Boston with Rondo, Pierce, and Allen he still averages his careers numbers! Oh wait...

I honestly don't know 100% But I have a feeling that if Lebron "allows" Love and Irving to reach their full potential you will PROBABLY be on here screaming about Lebron being carried.

Hell, yall screamed about how stacked the Heat were while James lead the team in points, assists, rebounds, their primary defender and ball handler.

Complain if Lebron handles the ball too much (Lebron-ball makes his teammates worse) or not enough (Lebron is passive, not assertive, scared and is being carried).

[dubeta]

They still 3 peated. But your kinda making the point for me.

Prime wade/lebron/bosh ~= young Kobe/shaq

Both teams had clutch shooters, top guys in the organization who knew how to win and build champions, etc


The talent between early 2000 lakers and early 2010 Heat is pretty much the same. The Lakers had tougher roads to go through as the west was stacked to hell in those years while the east was garbage for the entirety of the Heats run. Yet the Lakers won more and, at their best, in much more dominant and convincing fashion.

:roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll:

He still was in 2011

[r15mohd]

He still was in 2011

2010-2011, definitely not 2011-2012 season

[dubeta]

If Wade and LeBron stayed in their prime the entire duration, Like how Shaq and Kobe were in their primes from 2000-2004, the Heat would have minimum 3 peated

Im just talking about Wade and LeBron, no need for Bosh, just those 2 would have 3 peated

[GrapeApe]

LeBron didn't make Bosh worse, Bosh's role made him worse. He was clearly uncomfortable with his role the past 4 years. It was the basically the first time in his basketball career that he wasn't "the man". That's a difficult transition to make for anyone, and he was playing out of position to boot. He's always been a guy who needs consistent touches to develop an offensive rhythm. Most bigs do for that matter. That just wasn't going to happen playing along side two superior offensive players. Bosh simply was unable to maximize his abilities as a 3rd option. There are players far less talented than Bosh that are much better suited to a 3rd option role.

Wade is similar in that regard. He's most comfortable and effective as the primary ball handler/playmaker/scorer. He adjusted his game and became dynamic off the ball, but he also had the ball in his hands a lot more than Bosh. I think it's tougher for a big man to adjust because they rely on wing players feeding them the ball. Both Wade and Bosh will likely put up better numbers this year, but that is the result of being back to more comfortable roles, not LeBron making them worse.

[r15mohd]

If Wade and LeBron stayed in their prime the entire duration, Like how Shaq and Kobe were in their primes from 2000-2004, the Heat would have minimum 3 peated

Im just talking about Wade and LeBron, no need for Bosh, just those 2 would have 3 peated


definitely agree...Bosh could have had his up/down play during the runs. Wade's absence of a 20-25pt SG, defensive abilities and open court threat would have been nice for more than a year-year and a half with Lebron in town.

[GrapeApe]

If Wade and LeBron stayed in their prime the entire duration, Like how Shaq and Kobe were in their primes from 2000-2004, the Heat would have minimum 3 peated

Im just talking about Wade and LeBron, no need for Bosh, just those 2 would have 3 peated

Not likely. Wade was in his prime in 2011 and I don't know if prime Wade would have made a difference last year, though it would have been much closer for sure.

[Magic 32]

If Wade and LeBron stayed in their prime the entire duration, Like how Shaq and Kobe were in their primes from 2000-2004, the Heat would have minimum 3 peated


There is also another way the Heat could have 3 peated...

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-sitting-mavs1.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

lol

I'm not really a fan of LeBron but some of you are just moronic. The Heat in 2013 and 2014 had the best eFG% in NBA history. They were historically good offensively. Who gives a damn if Bosh puts up better numbers if the offense as whole sees a massive dropoff, which will almost certainly be the case.

Bran haters might be more idiotic and illogical than the Bryant detractors and thats saying something.


Always loved you Jacks :bowdown:

[tpols]

And if Peyton Manning figures out a way to accommodate his running back his team would be far more dominate! :eek:

Based on the Thunder's talent level they should dominate more. Could you imagine how great of a team that would be if they figured out how to accommodate the talents of a reggie jackson more? :eek:


Reggie Jackson has only played on the thunder(as far as I know). We have nothing to compare him to.

Westbrook and Durant both go off for 30ppg series. Theyre perfectly accomodated for.. Reggie's gotten plenty of burn too. They lost last year in a close one with SAS because their starting PF went down and the spurs were on fire. They still made the series more competitive than a fully healthy heat team could though. :confusedshrug:


Your peyton manning analogy is ridiculous. Knowshon Moreno likely had the best year of his career running the ball next to peyton manning. Hillman right now is starting to explode as a nobody. Peyton Manning makes scrub running backs look like pro bowlers..:oldlol: because he always gets his squad into the redzone where they can do work if not through rushing through screens and dump off passes.

Peyton literally makes everyones stats better. Lebron has the exact opposite effect.

[knicksman]

Boston trio are less talented yet they couldve won more if not for the refs and if they formed at the same age as miami 3. Yet idiots couldnt see this coz all they see is brans dick

[FLDFSU]

Reggie Jackson has only played on the thunder(as far as I know). We have nothing to compare him to.

Westbrook and Durant both go off for 30ppg series. Theyre perfectly accomodated for.. Reggie's gotten plenty of burn too. They lost last year in a close one with SAS because their starting PF went down and the spurs were on fire. They still made the series more competitive than a fully healthy heat team could though. :confusedshrug:


Your peyton manning analogy is ridiculous. Knowshon Moreno likely had the best year of his career running the ball next to peyton manning. Hillman right now is starting to explode as a nobody. Peyton Manning makes scrub running backs look like pro bowlers..:oldlol: because he always gets his squad into the redzone where they can do work if not through rushing through screens and dump off passes.

Peyton literally makes everyones stats better. Lebron has the exact opposite effect.

Sorry, I meant to add a qualifier "more." How much more dominate would the Broncos be if Peyton can keep the same passing stats, but figure out a way to incorporate the running game too?

Denver Broncos are currently ranked 27th in the NFL in rushing. Now they have the best offense in the NFL as far as PPG, but WHO CARES! Manning ball is leading to a underachieving rushing attack.

In 2011, the Broncos ranked 1st in the NFL in rushing. That was the Tim Tebow year!

The Broncos should totally tell Manning-a generational talent-to run a system more conducive to the running game. And he should figure out how to do it without diminishing his team's passing, PPG, or overall offensive efficiency.

These damn Broncos are underachieving with Manning...:cheers:

Where is Tebow to facilitate the rushing attack so they can not underachieve and make it to the second round...instead of "underachieving" to the Superbowl? :facepalm

[305Baller]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m983iyx31h1qe1x8qo1_400.gif

Bosh mvp

[FLDFSU]

And to make it worse, the Broncos rushing attack is getting worse:

#1 the year before he got there
#15 the first year he got there
#16 last year
#27 this year :facepalm :facepalm

Just like Spo should have stop playing Lebron ball because Bosh---the 3rd option--- was not living up to his potential...

John Fox needs to stop playing Manning ball because Denver's rushing attack is not living up to their potential.

[SouBeachTalents]

Boston trio are less talented yet they couldve won more if not for the refs and if they formed at the same age as miami 3. Yet idiots couldnt see this coz all they see is brans dick

Does this dude have a translator or something

[riseagainst]

And to make it worse, the Broncos rushing attack is getting worse:

#1 the year before he got there
#15 the first year he got there
#16 last year
#27 this year :facepalm :facepalm

Just like Spo should have stop playing Lebron ball because Bosh---the 3rd option--- was not living up to his potential...

John Fox needs to stop playing Manning ball because Denver's rushing attack is not living up to their potential.


:eek:

[Kblaze8855]

The point is.. you would expect a team with Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, Lebron and stacked role players to win more than two championships together. And they were literally one shot away from 1 title.

They were one shot away from winning the first 3 games of 2011(One missed wade 3) and likely having a 3peat. But that doesnt matter....because what happened happened.....

[305Baller]

They were one shot away from winning the first 3 games of 2011(One missed wade 3) and likely having a 3peat. But that doesnt matter....because what happened happened.....

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-04-2014/i3PTVm.gif

[riseagainst]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-04-2014/i3PTVm.gif

:lol
:roll:

funny, because lebron is a backstabber.

[tpols]

They were one shot away from winning the first 3 games of 2011(One missed wade 3) and likely having a 3peat. But that doesnt matter....because what happened happened.....

Yea so it evens out to two championships.. but Lebron would have only 1 FMVP.

He mightve still thrown that shit though.


:lol
:roll:

funny, because lebron is a backstabber.

Was gonna say.. thats a perfect representation of the thread title

[tpols]

Sorry, I meant to add a qualifier "more." How much more dominate would the Broncos be if Peyton can keep the same passing stats, but figure out a way to incorporate the running game too?

Denver Broncos are currently ranked 27th in the NFL in rushing. Now they have the best offense in the NFL as far as PPG, but WHO CARES! Manning ball is leading to a underachieving rushing attack.

In 2011, the Broncos ranked 1st in the NFL in rushing. That was the Tim Tebow year!

The Broncos should totally tell Manning-a generational talent-to run a system more conducive to the running game. And he should figure out how to do it without diminishing his team's passing, PPG, or overall offensive efficiency.

These damn Broncos are underachieving with Manning...:cheers:

Where is Tebow to facilitate the rushing attack so they can not underachieve and make it to the second round...instead of "underachieving" to the Superbowl? :facepalm

Knowshown moreno/hillman would be like.. mario chalmers/norris cole on the Heat. Demarius Thomas would be Wade, and Julius Thomas would be Bosh. Peyton makes them all better.


Your analogy is straight retarded dude. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

4 straight finals and 2 titles is now an under-achievement. exactly how many teams do this in the NBA? :facepalm

Fact of the matter comes to this - Lebron-ball has been proven to get you to the Finals at a 45% rate, 5 out of 11 years. only other system that can match (likely beat it) is the triangle offense. keep the comparison's going tho...you even spouting the Heat had a more talented team than the Spurs show you don't "get" it...talent on paper vs talent on the court. Spurs were easily the better team, through and through

And how many teams in history had 3 superstars in their prime? None. And thats actually what hes trying to say. Spurs were the better team because heat was playing lebron ball. Lol at this dumbass

[SouBeachTalents]

And how many teams in history had 3 superstars in their prime? None. And thats actually what hes trying to say. Spurs were the better team because heat was playing lebron ball. Lol at this dumbass

Not the Heat

[FLDFSU]

Knowshown moreno/hillman would be like.. mario chalmers/norris cole on the Heat. Demarius Thomas would be Wade, and Julius Thomas would be Bosh. Peyton makes them all better.


Your analogy is straight retarded dude. :oldlol:

Thomas success...directly depends on playing Manning ball--the more that Manning dominates the ball---the more successful Thomas is likely to be.

The success of Broncos rushing attack does not depend on Manning ball. "Success" being higher/better numbers as "success" for Bosh is apparently better/higher numbers.

In 2011, without Manning, the Broncos had the number one rushing attack=not underachieving.
In 2009, without Lebron, Bosh was a double double player=not underachieving.

In 2025, without Manning, the Broncos may have a chance to run the ball more, and therefore, once again, claim the top spot=not underachieving.
In 2014, without Lebron, Bosh may have a chance to take more shots, and therefore, once again, claim his title as double double king=not underachieving.

Therefore, the Broncos rushing is underachieving with Manning (worse numbers) as the Bosh underachieved with Lebron (worse numbers).

^^^^^ This is what we called illogical-- but it is still very much parallel reasoning.

Bosh "success" is as independent from Lebron as the Broncos rushing attack is from Peyton.

And this illogical reasoning is very much what you are doing.

[dubeta]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-04-2014/i3PTVm.gif

dont get this

giving Wade and Bosh 2 rings is the equivalent of hitting them with a chair??

[Magic 32]

giving Wade and Bosh 2 rings is the equivalent of hitting them with a chair??

Blocked a FMVP for Wade and forced him to accept Pippen rings?

Pretty awful.

[dubeta]

Blocked a FMVP for Wade and forced him to accept Kobe rings?

Pretty awful.

fixed


and its not that bad considering how much you guys value Kobe's rings

[hahaitme]

He made Wade & Bosh worse - so you're saying he won 2 rings without all star help?

:applause:
Bravo OP

[tpols]

Thomas success...directly depends on playing Manning ball--the more that Manning dominates the ball---the more successful Thomas is likely to be.

The success of Broncos rushing attack does not depend on Manning ball. "Success" being higher/better numbers as "success" for Bosh is apparently better/higher numbers.

In 2011, without Manning, the Broncos had the number one rushing attack=not underachieving.
In 2009, without Lebron, Bosh was a double double player=not underachieving.

In 2025, without Manning, the Broncos may have a chance to run the ball more, and therefore, once again, claim the top spot=not underachieving.
In 2014, without Lebron, Bosh may have a chance to take more shots, and therefore, once again, claim his title as double double king=not underachieving.

Therefore, the Broncos rushing is underachieving with Manning (worse numbers) as the Bosh underachieved with Lebron (worse numbers).

On the broncos..

Peyton Manning is the orchestrator.
Demarius Thomas is his second option.
Julius Thomas is his third option.
Running Backs are his 'role players'

The three deadliest options worked in perfect harmony together while the role players played off of them.


On the Heat..

Lebron was the orchestrator
Wade was his second option
Bosh was his third option
Shooters were his role players

The three deadliest options DIDNT work in perfect harmony together and Lebron relied more on the role players to win than he did the star players(or he transformed the 'star' players into somewhat of role players).

Thats the difference.


What you're saying makes fking NO sense. :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

And how many teams in history had 3 superstars in their prime? None.

Ive often wondered why people make such claims so matter of factly without knowing anything about history.

There have been teams with 3 all NBA first teamers at the same time. Not...people who made it in their careers...people who all made it the same season.

And they didnt even make the finals.

What has Bosh done to deserve superstar status Jojo White didnt? jojo is a finals MVP 7 time all star and made more all NBA second teams than Bosh has made all NBA teams period(1 second team...8 years ago).

But him, MVP Cowens, and top 10 all time at that point Hondo...not 3 superstars?

The Bullets with MVP Unseld....superstar Earl Monroe in his prime...and Gus Johnson....who was all D first team and all nba second team. Which is to say nothing of their 23 or so ppg second leading scorer....which was none of those people. But they dont have 3 superstars?

Tell me Knicksman...assuming you are actually a Knicks fan....

What justifies giving Bosh more respect than Dave Debusscherre? You know...8 straight all star teams 6 straight all D first teams. Hall of fame. Put up 18/14 his last season on the Pistons....then joined the Knicks where his numbers declined much like Bosh...because he was playing with Reed, Frazier, and Earl Monroe. And like 3 other all stars I wont bring up.

But that team didnt have 3 superstars?

I know you likely didnt actually mean....in history. You probably meant...lately. Though you added the "In history" for emphasis. which works when talking to people who dont...folow history.

Me...when someone references all of history...I like history to support the statement.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ive often wondered why people make such claims so matter of factly without knowing anything about history.

There have been teams with 3 all NBA first teamers at the same time. Not...people who made it in their careers...people who all made it the same season.

And they didnt even make the finals.

What has Bosh done to deserve superstar status Jojo White didnt? jojo is a finals MVP 7 time all star and made more all NBA second teams than Bosh has made all NBA teams period(1 second team...8 years ago).

But him, MVP Cowens, and top 10 all time at that point Hondo...not 3 superstars?

The Bullets with MVP Unseld....superstar Earl Monroe in his prime...and Gus Johnson....who was all D first team and all nba second team. Which is to say nothing of their 23 or so ppg second leading scorer....which was none of those people. But they dont have 3 superstars?

Tell me Knicksman...assuming you are actually a Knicks fan....

What justifies giving Bosh more respect than Dave Debusscherre? You know...8 straight all star teams 6 straight all D first teams. Hall of fame. Put up 18/14 his last season on the Pistons....then joined the Knicks where his numbers declined much like Bosh...because he was playing with Reed, Frazier, and Earl Monroe. And like 3 other all stars I wont bring up.

But that team didnt have 3 superstars?

I know you likely didnt actually mean....in history. You probably meant...lately. Though you added the "In history" for emphasis. which works when talking to people who dont...folow history.

Me...when someone references all of history...I like history to support the statement.

:applause: ethered

[JT123]

fixed


and its not that bad considering how much you guys value Kobe's rings
:oldlol:

[tpols]

There were 17 teams in the NBA back in the 70s.. and 3 rounds of playoffs. The talent is far more diluted from team to team now than it was then.

[Dizzle-2k7]

KBLAZE talking about teams from the 60s/70s/80s being STACKED ummm HELLO there were like 10 teams back then LMAO:hammerhead:

in the modern era, the HEAT were the most stacked team of all time from front to bottom.. and they BARELY won 2 rings! LMAO:oldlol:

Kblaze actually thinks Lebrons stacked 2 rings in the East are more impressive than Kobes alpha 2 rings in the WEST ... modern WEST most difficult conference of all time

Kobe > Bron

[Kblaze8855]

There were 17 teams in the NBA back in the 70s.. and 3 rounds of playoffs. The talent is far more diluted from team to team now than it was then.

Of course. But people have always been too loose with terms like "Never in history" and so on...when they know nothing about history.

And this isnt even something that takes much knowledge of league history.

I feel like you are old enough to remember these guys....

What makes chris Bosh more of a superstar than Mullin, Hardaway, or Mitch Richmond?

Those 3 combined for like 74 points a game at one point.

These kinds of statements are never made by people who give two shits about history.

Just look to borrow gravitas by referencing things they dont even respect.

[Kblaze8855]

KBLAZE talking about teams from the 60s/70s/80s being STACKED ummm HELLO there were like 10 teams back then LMAO:hammerhead:

in the modern era, the HEAT were the most stacked team of all time from front to bottom.. and they BARELY won 2 rings! LMAO:oldlol:

Kblaze actually thinks Lebrons stacked 2 rings in the East are more impressive than Kobes alpha 2 rings in the WEST ... modern WEST most difficult conference of all time

Kobe > Bron

Im gonna need you to act like an adult if you want to talk. Not that I think you do....I think you want to make up claims and act a fool. Which for the most part....I will disregard.

I seem to remember you telling me I think Lebron is better than Jordan or some such nonsense. You are an odd and obsessive fellow.

[FLDFSU]

On the broncos..

Peyton Manning is the orchestrator.
Demarius Thomas is his second option.
Julius Thomas is his third option.
Running Backs are his 'role players'

The three deadliest options worked in perfect harmony together while the role players played off of them.


On the Heat..

Lebron was the orchestrator
Wade was his second option
Bosh was his third option
Shooters were his role players

The three deadliest options DIDNT work in perfect harmony together and Lebron relied more on the role players to win than he did the star players(or he transformed the 'star' players into somewhat of role players).

Thats the difference.


What you're saying makes fking NO sense. :oldlol:

:lol I know you are trying to be difficult.

You know that the relationship between QB and WR/TE is wholly dependant (on the oline as well) on each other. The relationship between a QB and a running game--while dependant in some regards--is not nearly as dependent.

The relationship between a PF and a C or SG or PF (whatever position Bosh and James were asked to play on the Heat) are not nearly as dependant as QB and TE.

It is far more analogous that QB is to running game as Power Forward is to Center or even (if James is the PG) PG is to PF.


The fact of the matter is that John Fox is not going to tell Manning to stop dominating the ball so that the teams running game can reach their potential. Manning is a once in a generational talent...the Broncos are best when the ball is in his hands.

FSU-Jamies hands
Vikings-Peterson hands
UGA-Gurley hands/Nebraska/Wisconsin etc.
GB Packers-Aaron hands

Lakers-Kobe hands
Thunder-Durant hands
Knicks-Melo hands

(This does not mean that all of these teams and stars it is weighted equal but you get the drift)

Nobody in Boston wanted the ball out of Rondo's hands so that Perkins potential could reached.

[FLDFSU]

KBLAZE talking about teams from the 60s/70s/80s being STACKED ummm HELLO there were like 10 teams back then LMAO:hammerhead:

in the modern era, the HEAT were the most stacked team of all time from front to bottom.. and they BARELY won 2 rings! LMAO:oldlol:

Kblaze actually thinks Lebrons stacked 2 rings in the East are more impressive than Kobes alpha 2 rings in the WEST ... modern WEST most difficult conference of all time

Kobe > Bron

So the Heat will be winning a ring this year correct?

[FLDFSU]

Ive often wondered why people make such claims so matter of factly without knowing anything about history.

There have been teams with 3 all NBA first teamers at the same time. Not...people who made it in their careers...people who all made it the same season.

And they didnt even make the finals.

What has Bosh done to deserve superstar status Jojo White didnt? jojo is a finals MVP 7 time all star and made more all NBA second teams than Bosh has made all NBA teams period(1 second team...8 years ago).

But him, MVP Cowens, and top 10 all time at that point Hondo...not 3 superstars?

The Bullets with MVP Unseld....superstar Earl Monroe in his prime...and Gus Johnson....who was all D first team and all nba second team. Which is to say nothing of their 23 or so ppg second leading scorer....which was none of those people. But they dont have 3 superstars?

Tell me Knicksman...assuming you are actually a Knicks fan....

What justifies giving Bosh more respect than Dave Debusscherre? You know...8 straight all star teams 6 straight all D first teams. Hall of fame. Put up 18/14 his last season on the Pistons....then joined the Knicks where his numbers declined much like Bosh...because he was playing with Reed, Frazier, and Earl Monroe. And like 3 other all stars I wont bring up.

But that team didnt have 3 superstars?

I know you likely didnt actually mean....in history. You probably meant...lately. Though you added the "In history" for emphasis. which works when talking to people who dont...folow history.

Me...when someone references all of history...I like history to support the statement.

:applause:

[tpols]

:lol I know you are trying to be difficult.

You know that the relationship between QB and WR/TE is wholly dependant (on the oline as well) on each other. The relationship between a QB and a running game--while dependant in some regards--is not nearly as dependent.

The relationship between a PF and a C or SG or PF (whatever position Bosh and James were asked to play on the Heat) are not nearly as dependant as QB and TE.

It is far more analogous that QB is to running game as Power Forward is to Center or even (if James is the PG) PG is to PF.


The fact of the matter is that John Fox is not going to tell Manning to stop dominating the ball so that the teams running game can reach their potential. Manning is a once in a generational talent...the Broncos are best when the ball is in his hands.

FSU-Jamies hands
Vikings-Peterson hands
UGA-Gurley hands/Nebraska/Wisconsin etc.
GB Packers-Aaron hands

Lakers-Kobe hands
Thunder-Durant hands
Knicks-Melo hands

(This does not mean that all of these teams and stars it is weighted equal but you get the drift)

Nobody in Boston wanted the ball out of Rondo's hands so that Perkins potential could reached.

LeBron is a passer/playmaker/point forward. His ballhandling playmaking and passing > scoring.. His teams do best when he's breaking down the defense and passing to cutters and 3pt shooters.

He got 28ppg last finals and his team got blown out because he averaged way less assists than normal and had a negative A:TO. And played shit defense.

According to your logic all positions in basketball are disjointed. Which isn't true.. There not as controlled and simultaneous as football but a point guard or point forward can create opportunities for his teammates just like a qb can for his wrs.

Hillman is not Peytons third best option.. He isn't the third best offensive player on the team either. Bosh was, and clearly so, on the heat.




And also saying a TEs game is 100% dependant on the QB false. There's this thing called yards after catch that some players excel at

[dubeta]

LeBron is a passer/playmaker/point forward. His ballhandling playmaking and passing > scoring.. His teams do best when he's breaking down the defense and passing to cutters and 3pt shooters.

He got 28ppg last finals and his team got blown out because he averaged way less assists than normal and had a negative A:TO. And played shit defense.

According to your logic all positions in basketball are disjointed. Which isn't true.. There not as controlled and simultaneous as football but a point guard or point forward can create opportunities for his teammates just like a qb can for his wrs.

Hillman is not Peytons third best option.. He isn't the third best offensive player on the team either. Bosh was, and clearly so, on the heat.

Teammates have to make shots for assists to happen

[tpols]

Teammates have to make shots for assists to happen
And in football teammates have to catch passes for completions to happen.

[JT123]

And in football teammates have to catch passes for completions to happen.
Manning always has the best receivers in the league, while Lebron's shooters are always old and inconsistent.

[Wally450]

Blair White, Austin Collie, Piere Gar

[bizil]

Bron didn't make Bosh worse. Bosh knew coming in that he would be the third option. I think what may have hurt him worse was playing more center than he anticipated AND playing more stretch PF or C than he anticipated. When I say "STRETCH" I mean a big man who's a threat from the three ball area. And really looks to exploit that. Those are guys like Dirk, Love, and Ryan Anderson. While Bosh can hit threes, I view him more midrange, slashing, and some postups. I don't view him as a pure shooter like the other guys I named. So I don't blame Bron for that, I blame the roster the Heat had at their disposal.

[Brizzly]

There were 17 teams in the NBA back in the 70s.. and 3 rounds of playoffs. The talent is far more diluted from team to team now than it was then.

More then 100 times more people playing basketball today compared to the 70s.

[Sheik1287]

1 game defines a career!:hammerhead:

[Kobe_6/8]

There is also another way the Heat could have 3 peated...

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-sitting-mavs1.jpg

http://oi33.tinypic.com/fo0v95.jpg