Would Bosh Play Better With Durant?

[3ball]

Durant dominated the ball 28% less than Bran last year, so if Bosh played with Durant, wouldn't a big chunk of that 28% go to touches for Bosh?

Durant produced about the same as Bran last year, so if he's getting the same production AND Bosh is producing more because he is the primary beneficiary of Durant's lesser time with the ball, than doesn't a Durant/Bosh team produce more than a Lebron/Bosh team? (everything else being equal of course)

Doesn't a Durant/Bosh offense keep up with the Spurs offense better than the Lebron/Bosh offense did?

[RRR3]

In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?

[Joyner82reload]

In what world did LeBron and Durant produce the same stats? 32/7/6=27/7/6?

Don't insult Durant

[SouBeachTalents]

In what world did LeBron and Durant produce the same stats? 32/7/6=27/7/6?

Don't insult Durant

I know, just wait till they meet in the Finals, Durant will show him

[navy]

In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?
Dont do him like that. :roll:

[dubeta]

Wouldnt matter, he would have 0 rings

[Suguru101]

In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?

Wow...



:roll:

[3ball]

How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?


lebron cratered this guy's stats - 16ppg is not that much for a 3rd option at all.

the ball-dominance stats prove that bosh would have much more opportunity alongside durant.

the amazing thing is that bosh was on tv tonight talking about how he sacrificed for the team last year, when in reality, he didn't, because his reduced role did not make the team better... if lebron had allowed him to have more touches, the heat would have been a much better team.

so he didn't sacrifice last year, he complied with lebron-ball... there's a difference.

[Megabox!]

In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?
Bodied :applause:

[Fudge]

Obviously, Durant wouldn't eat the shot clock like LeBron does. He'd actually get looks in the post and not be made into a spot up shooter.

[RRR3]

lebron cratered this guy's stats - 16ppg is not that much for a 3rd option at all.

the ball-dominance stats prove that bosh would have much more opportunity alongside durant.

the amazing thing is that bosh was on tv tonight talking about how he sacrificed for the team last year, when in reality, he didn't, because his reduced role did not make the team better... if lebron had allowed him to have more touches, the heat would have been a much better team.

so he didn't sacrifice last year, he complied with lebron-ball... there's a difference.
Shut the **** up, troll. I already countered your BS give it up.

[JT123]

Nope, Durant and Westbrook refuse to share the ball with anyone. This is why Durant is STILL ringless despite having the most stacked team in the league the last 4 seasons.

[3ball]

Bodied :applause:
Wade missed 30 games, so the point you are applauding is wrong.

For more than 40% of the season, Bosh was the #2.

16 ppg on only 12 shots and 3 FT's while playing out of position, is a testament to Bosh's skill.

Bosh did what he could, with what little he was given... he'd get more playing with durant, so he'd do more.

To deny this is ridiculous, especially after seeing how great of a season he's going to have this year, after being freed from the lebron-ball shackles.

[Angel Face]

Durant is better at making his team mates better. He doesn't need to hold the ball that much to score.

[Kobe_6/8]

In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/ouch/grand/ouch-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-710.gif

[MP.Trey]

Who cares? He sure as hell wouldn't be winning two championships with Durant.

[JerryWest]

One has a ring thanks to Bron, the other... :lol

[3ball]

He sure as hell wouldn't be winning two championships with Durant.


You don't know that - Durant never got to team-hop and collude.. But give Durant a chance to team-hop so he can play with 2 all-stars and top players at their position, and he wins 2 rings too.

Give ANY superstar the chance to team-hop so they can play with 2 top players at their position, and they win 2 rings.. They might win more than 2 rings.. Lebron was only 2/4 in Miami doing this.

But Lebron is the only team-hopper, so he's the one with a couple rings.. Those are the facts.
.

[aj1987]

You don't know that - Durant never got to team-hop and collude.. Give Durant a chance to collude and team-hop so he can play with 2 all-stars, and he wins 2 rings too.

Give ANY superstar the chance to team-hop so they can play with 2 top players at their position, and they win 2 rings.

They might win more than 2 rings - Lebron's 2/4 in Miami is an underachievement considering the team-hopping to play with 2 all-stars and top 3 players at their position.. Any other star player in his position might have done better.
The '12 Thunder has 2 All-Star's, 2 All-NBA players, 6th MOY, All-D player, Scoring champ, and the blocks leader in KD, Harden, WB, and Ibaka. Another elite defender in Thabo.

[3ball]

The '12 Thunder has 2 All-Star's,


Heat had THREE all-stars, because Lebron colluded.

Don't compare 2 all-stars to 3 all-stars.. that's just dumb are retarded.. never go full retard

Lebron is the only team-hopper, so he's the only one that played with a team of 3 all-stars (and rayray, birdman), so he's the only one with a couple rings.. Those are the facts.

[aj1987]

Heat had THREE all-stars, because Lebron colluded.

Don't compare 2 all-stars to 3 all-stars.. that's just dumb are retarded.. never go full retard
2 All-Stars, 2 All-NBA players a 6th MOY, and a All-Def player. You do know that the All-Star award is just a popularity contest, right? KG, KAJ, Shaq, Timmy, and Kobe have more All-Star selections that MJ, FYI.

That Thunder team was stacked AF. He didn't have a reason to leave the team. Just like MJ.

You just went full 3ball, 3ball. Never go full 3ball.

[3ball]

You do know that the All-Star award is just a popularity contest, right? KG, KAJ, Shaq, Timmy, and Kobe have more All-Star selections that MJ, FYI.


Bosh is a 10-time All-Star - he made the All-Star team every season from 2006-2015.. And he was voted in by the coaches every year.

So stop deluding yourself that Bosh was only an all-star due to "popularity".. You're obviously wrong on that, which means you were dumb and delusional to even come to that conclusion... But anything to prop up your underachieving Lebron right?.. He needs it.

Lebron is the only colluder and team-hopper in the entire league.

Accordingly, he went 2/4 in Miami, due to his team-hopping.. ANYONE can team-hop and win rings if they team up with enough talent - and that's what Lebron did.

[aj1987]

Bosh is a 10-time All-Star - he made the All-Star team every season from 2006-2015.. And he was voted in by the coaches every year.

So stop deluding yourself that Bosh was only an all-star due to "popularity".. You're obviously wrong on that, which means you were dumb and delusional to even come to that conclusion... But anything to prop up your underachieving Lebron right?.. He needs it.

Lebron is the only colluder and team-hopper in the entire league.

Accordingly, he went 2/4 in Miami, due to his team-hopping.. ANYONE can team-hop and win rings if they team up with enough talent - and that's what Lebron did.
Bosh might just end up with more All-Star selections than MJ. Wade, KD, WB, LeBron, etc. as well. How does that make you feel, 3ball? :roll:

[3ball]

Bosh might just end up with more All-Star selections than MJ. Wade, KD, WB, LeBron, etc. as well. How does that make you feel, 3ball? :roll:
the fact that you rely on this type of logic proves my point.

lebron's a colluder - the only reason he has ANY championships is because he colluded to play with Wade and Bosh.. period

which any superstar can do.. let durant play with wade and bosh, and he also wins 2 rings.. probably more, because again, bosh plays better alongside durant - durant dominates the ball 28% less, so those touches go to bosh.

[aj1987]

the fact that you rely on this type of logic proves my point.

lebron's a colluder - the only reason he has ANY championships is because he colluded to play with Wade and Bosh.. period
Cool story bro.

Kobe Bryant - 17 All-Star selections
MJ - 14 :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

Cool story bro.

Kobe Bryant - 17 All-Star selections
MJ - 14 :roll: :roll:
you missed the rest of my post.

lebron's a colluder - the only reason he has ANY championships is because he colluded to play with Wade and Bosh.. period

which any superstar can do.. let durant play with wade and bosh, and he also wins 2 rings.. probably more, because again, bosh plays better alongside durant - durant dominates the ball 28% less, so those touches go to bosh.

[aj1987]

you missed the rest of my post.

lebron's a colluder - the only reason he has ANY championships is because he colluded to play with Wade and Bosh.. period

which any superstar can do.. let durant play with wade and bosh, and he also wins 2 rings.. probably more, because again, bosh plays better alongside durant - durant dominates the ball 28% less, so those touches go to bosh.
Again, you ****ing imbecile, KD player with the 6th MOY, an All-NBA player, and a All-D player. All-NBA and All-D selections >>> All-Star selections.

KD wouldn't have made it past the Bulls in '11, Celtics in '12, Pacers in '13, and the Spurs in '14. He would've made 2 finals at the most and would've lost in both of them.

Going back to your retarded original topic:


In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?

Now stop cherry picking arguments and stop posting as well.

From a different thread:

Are people just being dense? Wade was injured in '12, '13, and '14. Bosh was injured in '12. To that guy who said Bosh doesn't play in the post anymore because of LeBron, Bosh himself said that he doesn't want to play in the post anymore. That he's done "banging in the post". Oh, and 85% of Bosh's shots were jumpshots in '14. 80% in '15. A 5% difference with and without LeBron.

In the 4 years Bosh played with LeBron, he took 13 shots a game in 34 MPG. In the 7 years before that, he took 14.4 shots a game in 37 MPG. A difference of 1.4 FGA while playing with LeBron AND Wade. 20.2/9.4 to 17.3/7.4. Lets all stop pretending that Bosh is anything more than a soft ass jump shooter.

Also, stop acting like Wade's knees with be '09-'11 level if he plays with anyone else. As good as Wade was in the '13 RS, he sucked ass in the first 3 rounds. Wasn't that good in '14 either.

Bosh isn't going to become tougher, Wade's knees aren't gonna heal, or Shitmers isn't gonna gain 50 IQ points just by playing with someone else.

In short, Bosh's PPG dropped a whooping 3 points along with 3 MPG. This for a guy playing along side two players who need over 15 shots a game is pretty good. Not to mention his shot attempts dropped by a marginal amount as well, while going from being the #1 option to the #3 option.

Here's Bosh saying that he doesn't like playing in the post.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore

Do you want to dismiss what Bosh himself said?

[aj1987]

but due to Lebron's collusion, he had an extra nugget that durant didn't have: a 10-time All-Star and 20/10 player in Bosh..
Except, KD had the 6th MOY and All-D first team player (who also led the league in blocks, BTW) that year.



you missed the rest of my post.

lebron's a colluder - the only reason he has ANY championships is because he colluded to play with Wade and Bosh.. period

which any superstar can do.. let durant play with wade and bosh, and he also wins 2 rings.. probably more, because again, bosh plays better alongside durant - durant dominates the ball 28% less, so those touches go to bosh.
Again, you ****ing imbecile, KD player with the 6th MOY, an All-NBA player, and a All-D player. All-NBA and All-D selections >>> All-Star selections.

KD wouldn't have made it past the Bulls in '11, Celtics in '12, Pacers in '13, and the Spurs in '14. He would've made 2 finals at the most and would've lost in both of them.

Going back to your retarded original topic:


In 2012 when Wade missed 15 games, Bosh averaged ~25/7 with LeBron. How many points do you expect a THIRD option to score, dumbass?

Now stop cherry picking arguments and stop posting as well.

From a different thread:

Are people just being dense? Wade was injured in '12, '13, and '14. Bosh was injured in '12. To that guy who said Bosh doesn't play in the post anymore because of LeBron, Bosh himself said that he doesn't want to play in the post anymore. That he's done "banging in the post". Oh, and 85% of Bosh's shots were jumpshots in '14. 80% in '15. A 5% difference with and without LeBron.

In the 4 years Bosh played with LeBron, he took 13 shots a game in 34 MPG. In the 7 years before that, he took 14.4 shots a game in 37 MPG. A difference of 1.4 FGA while playing with LeBron AND Wade. 20.2/9.4 to 17.3/7.4. Lets all stop pretending that Bosh is anything more than a soft ass jump shooter.

Also, stop acting like Wade's knees with be '09-'11 level if he plays with anyone else. As good as Wade was in the '13 RS, he sucked ass in the first 3 rounds. Wasn't that good in '14 either.

Bosh isn't going to become tougher, Wade's knees aren't gonna heal, or Shitmers isn't gonna gain 50 IQ points just by playing with someone else.

In short, Bosh's PPG dropped a whooping 3 points along with 3 MPG. This for a guy playing along side two players who need over 15 shots a game is pretty good. Not to mention his shot attempts dropped by a marginal amount as well, while going from being the #1 option to the #3 option.

Here's Bosh saying that he doesn't like playing in the post.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore

Do you want to dismiss what Bosh himself said?

Hold his MASSIVE L, 3ball.

[3ball]

:facepalm

[3ball]

Do you want to dismiss what Bosh himself said?


24/12 without Lebron.

16/6 with Lebron.

You do the math

[3ball]

24/12 without Lebron.

16/6 with Lebron.

You do the math


:confusedshrug:

Unfortunately for Lebron, his style craters the stats and performance of PF's, specifically because he dominates the ball like a point guard from the SF position (which is supremely suboptimal and puts ceiling on any team he's on).. Otoh, the stats prove that durant dominates the ball 28% less, so we know bosh would have the ball a lot more playing alongside durant.





you ****ing imbecile


Due to Lebron's collusion, his #3 option was far better than anything OKC had - Lebron's #3 option was 10-time All-Star and 20/10 player in Bosh.. Bosh is EASILY the best #3 option in the league today, and one of the best #3 options of all time.

Throw in Ray Allen (literally, the GOAT shooter) and you have one of the most talented rosters of all time... all due to Lebron's collusion.

So it's better to accept reality - Lebron colluded for his rings, which anyone can do - this is a fact - put ANYONE with enough talent, and they win rings.. but if you want to give lebron props for this - go ahead - it's a free country.

[aj1987]

24/12 without Lebron.

16/6 with Lebron.

You do the math
Last season, Bosh averaged 21 PPG while taking 5 more shots and 2 FT's more than the previous season. +5 PPG with +5 FGA and +2 FTA. Isn't that something which happens when a player taking ~20 shots a game leaves the team or are you just too retarded to understand that?


Unfortunately for Lebron, his style craters the stats and performance of PF's, specifically because he dominates the ball like a point guard from the SF position (which is supremely suboptimal and puts ceiling on any team he's on).. Otoh, the stats prove that durant dominates the ball 28% less, so we know bosh would have the ball a lot more playing alongside durant.
What in the actual **** are you even babbling about, moron? LeBron took significantly worse teams than the '12 Thunder to the Finals.


Due to Lebron's collusion, his #3 option was far better than anything OKC had - Lebron's #3 option was 10-time All-Star and 20/10 player in Bosh.. Bosh is EASILY the best #3 option in the league today, and one of the best #3 options of all time.

Throw in Ray Allen (literally, the GOAT shooter) and you have one of the most talented rosters of all time... all due to Lebron's collusion.

So it's better to accept reality - Lebron colluded for his rings, which anyone can do - this is a fact - put ANYONE with enough talent, and they win rings.. but if you want to give lebron props for this - go ahead - it's a free country.
Are you going to pretend that MJ didn't have any help? Dude basically had some of the most stacked teams in history. No wonder he went 6/6. KAJ? Shaq? Duncan? Bird?

If you actually know anything about basketball or its history almost every ATG has had stacked AF teams when they won their rings (relative to their competition). You can keep crying about stacked teams all you want or collusion or whatever, but it doesn't change the FACT that LeBron is one of the greatest ever.

Are people just being dense? Wade was injured in '12, '13, and '14. Bosh was injured in '12. To that guy who said Bosh doesn't play in the post anymore because of LeBron, Bosh himself said that he doesn't want to play in the post anymore. That he's done "banging in the post". Oh, and 85% of Bosh's shots were jumpshots in '14. 80% in '15. A 5% difference with and without LeBron.

In the 4 years Bosh played with LeBron, he took 13 shots a game in 34 MPG. In the 7 years before that, he took 14.4 shots a game in 37 MPG. A difference of 1.4 FGA while playing with LeBron AND Wade. 20.2/9.4 to 17.3/7.4. Lets all stop pretending that Bosh is anything more than a soft ass jump shooter.

Also, stop acting like Wade's knees with be '09-'11 level if he plays with anyone else. As good as Wade was in the '13 RS, he sucked ass in the first 3 rounds. Wasn't that good in '14 either.

Bosh isn't going to become tougher, Wade's knees aren't gonna heal, or Shitmers isn't gonna gain 50 IQ points just by playing with someone else.

In short, Bosh's PPG dropped a whooping 3 points along with 3 MPG. This for a guy playing along side two players who need over 15 shots a game is pretty good. Not to mention his shot attempts dropped by a marginal amount as well, while going from being the #1 option to the #3 option.

Here's Bosh saying that he doesn't like playing in the post.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore

[3ball]

Are you trying to pretend MJ didn't have any help?


All of the Bulls' championship teams required MJ to lead the league in scoring and be the greatest scorer and clutch player the game's ever seen.

Accordingly, MJ had the least offensive help of any superstar in the history of the game - no other player was required to carry the offensive burden that MJ carried.. The stats are what they are.. And we're also talking about one of the best defensive players of all time - he's in the top group of wing defenders along with Detroit's Rodman, Payton, Pippen, and Moncrief.





Here's Bosh saying that he doesn't like playing in the post.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24571850/heats-chris-bosh-on-playing-in-the-post-i-dont-bang-anymore


It has nothing to do with whether Bosh likes to play in the post or not - Bosh doesn't get enough TOUCHES alongside Lebron - Bosh doesn't get to touch the ball because Lebron is dominating it.

Again, the stats show that Durant dominates the ball 28% less, so we know bosh would have the ball a lot more playing alongside durant.

[aj1987]

All of the Bulls' championship teams required MJ to lead the league in scoring and be the greatest scorer and clutch player the game's ever seen.

Accordingly, MJ had the least offensive help of any superstar in the history of the game - no other player was required to carry the offensive burden that MJ carried.. The stats are what they are.. And we're also talking about one of the best defensive players of all time - he's in the top group of wing defenders along with Detroit's Rodman, Payton, Pippen, and Moncrief.
:roll:

Two of those ATG defenders were on his teams.

BTW, LeBron led the Heat in scoring, rebounds, and assists.




It has nothing to do with whether Bosh likes to play in the post or not - Bosh doesn't get enough TOUCHES alongside Lebron - Bosh doesn't get to touch the ball because Lebron is dominating it.
From my earlier post since you obviously have the attention span of a fruit fly.

In the 4 years Bosh played with LeBron, he took 13 shots a game in 34 MPG. In the 7 years before that, he took 14.4 shots a game in 37 MPG. A difference of 1.4 FGA while playing with LeBron AND Wade. 20.2/9.4 to 17.3/7.4. Lets all stop pretending that Bosh is anything more than a soft ass jump shooter.

Last season, Bosh averaged 21 PPG while taking 5 more shots and 2 FT's more than the previous season. +5 PPG with +5 FGA and +2 FTA. Isn't that something which happens when a player taking ~20 shots a game leaves the team or are you just too retarded to understand that?



Again, the stats show that Durant dominates the ball 28% less, so we know bosh would have the ball a lot more playing alongside durant.
So, KD is going to give up ~5 of his shots to Bosh? You do realize that LeBron took like 17 shots a game in '14, right? Weren't you the little turd who wanted him to take more shots?

[3ball]

:roll:

BTW, LeBron led the Heat in scoring, rebounds, and assists.


MJ led his team in PTS, AST, STL, BLK.. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo

But who cares.. As the #1 option, scoring and clutch are the most important things Lebron and MJ do.. and Lebron's nowhere near MJ in these areas..

Thru the same age Lebron is now (30), MJ carried a 25% greater scoring load in the playoffs, and almost 50% greater scoring load in the Finals (35 PPG to 28 PPG playoff average and 36 PPG to 26 PPG Finals average thru 30 years old).. And infinitely more clutch.. We all know how big that gap is in that area.





So, KD is going to give up ~5 of his shots to Bosh?


Durant's shot volume wouldn't decline at all - not sure where you got that from - he simply dominates the ball less, allowing Bosh to have the ball MORE.





You do realize that LeBron took like 17 shots a game in '14, right?


That's why they got blown away in 2014 Finals - with Lebron dominating the ball, he took touches away from teammates - but he neglected to make up for that by shooting himself!!

Hence, the Heat couldn't produce enough to keep up with the Spurs.. He obviously learned his lesson this year by literally DOUBLING his shot total.. Of course, at the higher shot volume, his FG% plummeted..

And the Warriors exploited his horrible isolation ability and horrible 33% isolation field goal percentage by LETTING him isolate all alone on the strongside without double-teaming.. They exploited his 33% isolation FG% by letting him do it over and over, similar to how teams exploit Deandre's FTs with hack-a-jordan.. this was like lettalebron iso.
.

[Kvnzhangyay]

MJ led his team in PTS, AST, STL, BLK.. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo

But who cares.. As the #1 option, scoring and clutch are the most important things Lebron and MJ do.. and Lebron's nowhere near MJ in these areas..

Thru the same age Lebron is now (30), MJ carried a 25% greater scoring load in the playoffs, and almost 50% greater scoring load in the Finals (35 PPG to 28 PPG playoff average and 36 PPG to 26 PPG Finals average thru 30 years old).. And infinitely more clutch.. We all know how big that gap is in that area.



Durant's shot volume wouldn't decline at all - not sure where you got that from - he simply dominates the ball less, allowing Bosh to have the ball MORE.



That's why they got blown away in 2014 Finals - with Lebron dominating the ball, he took touches away from teammates - but he neglected to make up for that by shooting himself!!

Hence, the Heat couldn't produce enough to keep up with the Spurs.. He obviously learned his lesson this year by literally DOUBLING his shot total..

... If he only shot 17 times a game, that obviously means his team wasn't contributing because he must be passing a lot. And don't give me BS about how his teammates had to shoot bailout shots because that simply wasn't true; Lebron was super hesitant that year (obviously for worse, but still) and stayed on the perimeter a lot, meaning he passed similar to how a PG normally passes when he brings the ball up

[3ball]

... If he only shot 17 times a game, that obviously means his team wasn't contributing because he must be passing a lot. And don't give me BS about how his teammates had to shoot bailout shots because that simply wasn't true; Lebron was super hesitant that year (obviously for worse, but still) and stayed on the perimeter a lot, meaning he passed similar to how a PG normally passes when he brings the ball up
Let's face it..

Lebron's options are:

A) shoot 17 times per game, protect efficiency, and get beat in record fashion

B) shoot 35 times per game, but only get 35 points because an unsophisticated offensive repertoire prevents him from maintaining his FG% at the higher volume.


As you can see, he's ****ed.. Unfortunately, option C is not an option for Lebron:

C) have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) of MJ, enabling him to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume, and preventing a Game 4 choke of 20 points with 0 in 4th (oh wait, that last part was due to him being "gassed"... but he cramped up in 2014 too, so yeah, stamina issues play.. bigtime (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m40s) )
.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Let's face it..

Lebron's options are:

A) shoot 17 times per game, protect efficiency, and get beat in record fashion

B) shoot 35 times per game, but only get 35 points because an unsophisticated offensive repertoire prevents him from maintaining his FG% at the higher volume.


As you can see, option C is not an option for Lebron:

C) have the offensive sophistication of MJ, enabling him to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume, and preventing a Game 4 choke of 20 points with 0 in 4th (oh wait, that last part is a stamina issue.. but yeah, that plays too)

I'm not questioning that Lebron SHOULD have shot more shots, in HINDSIGHT

Also, if we want to talk about such hypotheticals, Lebron last year was somehow a much better shooter than this year in the finals, as shown by the differing 3 point %. In 2014, Lebron shot 51.9% on threes, and in 2015 Lebron shot 31%, so he without a doubt would have averaged much more than 35ppg

HOWEVER, that is not the point, as I'm saying that even if he shot so many shots, even hypothetically at the same efficiency, the Heat would still have lost, as the Spurs were just simply that dominant. The Spurs were a beauty to watch last year, the way they played perfect team basketball and shot lights out in the finals.

[3ball]

I'm saying that even if he shot so many shots, even hypothetically at the same efficiency, the Heat would still have lost,


Unbelievable horseshit.. If he DOUBLED his shot attempts in 2014 like he did in 2015, it makes a massive difference, especially with a better supporting cast.

We saw how his higher volume controlled pace and had a better impact against a better team (the Warriors) in these latest Finals.. And if he did that in Miami with a better supporting cast, they win EASILY.

However, Lebron's remaining problem is that he can't maintain his efficiency at the higher volume - in the 2015 Finals, we found out that he shoots 39.8% at the higher volume, even against single coverage all alone... So he still would've lost, but only because he couldn't maintain his FG% at the higher volume.

Unfortunately he simply doesn't have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume.. The picture of him cramping up in 2014 is memorable.. And of course, he was "gassed" is the critical Game 4 of 2015 Finals, which cost his team the chance to go up 3-1 and win the series.

[aj1987]

MJ led his team in PTS, AST, STL, BLK.. Nanny Nanny Boo Boo
Making shit up, huh?

1991 - Points, assists, and blocks.
1992 - Points ans steals.
1993 - Points and assists.
1996 - Points.
1997 - Points, assists, and steals.
1998 - Points.

Pippen usually led the team in assists, steals, and blocks. LeBron obviously doesn't have as many rings or Finals appearances as MJ, but from the ones he has:

2007 - Points, assists, and steals.
2011 - Rebounds, assists, and steals.
2012 - Points, rebounds, assists, and steals.
2013 - Points, rebounds, assists, and steals.
2014 - Points, rebounds, assists, and steals.
2015 - Points, rebounds, assists, and steals.



But who cares.. As the #1 option, scoring and clutch are the most important things Lebron and MJ do.. and Lebron's nowhere near MJ in these areas..
Where did I say LeBron was better than MJ in the clutch or scoring? Dumb ****.


Durant's shot volume wouldn't decline at all - not sure where you got that from - he simply dominates the ball less, allowing Bosh to have the ball MORE.
The Thunder average ~82 FGA's a game.
KD - 20
WB - 20
Bosh - 17
Ibaka - 13

That's 70 shots right there for the starting 4. The rest of the team gets ~12 shots a game? Do you think that's how basketball works? You think '87 MJ is going to get 28 shots a game on the '11-'14 Heat? :facepalm



That's why they got blown away in 2014 Finals - with Lebron dominating the ball, he took touches away from teammates - but he neglected to make up for that by shooting himself!!
They lost because of their defense. Literally anyone who saw the series can tell you that. Basketball Reference doesn't keep those stats yet.



However, Lebron's remaining problem is that he can't maintain his efficiency at the higher volume - in the 2015 Finals, we found out that he shoots 39.8% at the higher volume, even against single coverage all alone... So he still would've lost, but only because he couldn't maintain his FG% at the higher volume.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html

Stop posting, kid. You're just embarrassing yourself.

[Kvnzhangyay]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html

Stop posting, kid. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Lets take a moment to honor Dwight shooting 70% on FTs

[3ball]

Where did I say LeBron was better than MJ in the clutch or scoring?


As the #1 option, scoring and clutch are the most important things Lebron and MJ do.. and Lebron's nowhere near MJ in these areas..

Thru the same age Lebron is now (30), MJ carried a 25% greater scoring load in the playoffs, and almost 50% greater scoring load in the Finals (35 PPG to 28 PPG in playoffs and 36 PPG to 26 PPG in Finals thru 30 years old).. And infinitely more clutch.. We all know how big that gap is in that area.





You think '87 MJ is going to get 28 shots a game on the '11-'14 Heat?


MJ played off-ball - this allowed teammates to touch the ball more and maintain their averages alongside MJ - just look at Pippen and Kukoc in 1996 when MJ came back from baseball - their stats barely changed.. This is a far cry from what Lebron's ball-dominance does to Bosh and Love's stats.

Btw, MJ averaged 25.1 shots per game for his playoff career as a Bull, with MANY series where he shot 27-33 times per game.. Lebron only attempts 19.0 shot attempts for his career in the playoffs...

Of course, MJ's teams actually WON the crucial games, whereas Lebron literally blows his opportunities... i.e. MJ would never score 20 points in any Finals game, or have 0 in the 4th - but that's what Lebron did when he had a chance to go up 3-1 in Game 4.

Remember that??.. Lebron was "gassed" in Game 4 - that was his actual reason for blowing the opportunity from his own mouth... And last year he cramped up in Game 1.. Lebron doesn't have the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) OR the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) to maintain his FG% at a higher shooting volume.





The Heat lost because of their defense in 2014 Finals


That's the dumb mainstream narrative - the stats show the Heat's offense was the worst of any Spurs opponent that year.. Basketball-reference shows us that pretty clearly - the Heat offense was inept, mainly because Lebron only shot 17 times per game despite his team needing 30.

If Lebron shot more in 2014, he could've controlled pace like he did against the Warriors, and the Warriors are a better team - that's how effective a high volume can be at controlling pace.

Also, the Heat had far better supporting talent than the injured Cavs, so the Heat would've been controlling pace with better talent (than this year's Cavs) against a worse team (than last year's Spurs).. Don't underestimate the difference between attempting 17 shots and attemting twice as many.

Of course, even if he does shoot 34 times per game, the 2015 Finals showed us Lebron will only shoot 39.8%, even against single-coverage the entire series.. he simply doesn't have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume





http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2009-nba-eastern-conference-finals-magic-vs-cavaliers.html


LOL, are you serious kid?... Go back to school.. Lebron only attempted 25 shots per game in that series - nowhere NEAR the 34 he attempted against the Warriors.. 34 > 25... by a LOT.

Again, Lebron simply doesn't have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume
.

[aj1987]

That's the dumb mainstream narrative - the stats show the Heat's offense was the worst of any Spurs opponent that year.. Basketball-reference shows us that pretty clearly - the Heat offense was inept, mainly because Lebron only shot 17 times per game despite his team needing 30.

If Lebron shot more in 2014, he could've controlled pace like he did against the Warriors, and the Warriors are a better team - that's how effective a high volume can be at controlling pace.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yep. You haven't EVER watched a SINGLE game of basketball in your life. I'm done here. Try actually watching a game. You might even enjoy it. Do do show a shit ton of stats during games.

[3ball]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yep. You haven't EVER watched a SINGLE game of basketball in your life. I'm done here. Try actually watching a game. You might even enjoy it. Do do show a shit ton of stats during games.
Heat scored BY FAR the least points vs. the Spurs of any Spurs opponent.

So again, basketball-reference shows the Heat had the worst offense of any Spurs opponent.. Not sure why you lost your shit like that.
.

[aj1987]

Heat had the lowest ORtg vs. the Spurs of any Spurs opponent.
No shit, Sherlock. The '14 Heat outside LeBron wasn't that good.

[3ball]

No shit, Sherlock. The '14 Heat outside LeBron wasn't that good.


Heat scored by far the least points per game against the Spurs of any Spurs opponent... Only 91 points per game.. So the Heat lost because of their OFFENSE.

That's why they needed Lebron to shoot more.. Warriors > Spurs and Lebron's high-volume/pace-controlling approach worked against the Warriors, while having far less supporting talent than he had with the Heat.

We saw the kind of of pressure-relieving effect that an MJ-level shot volume had on Lebron's lowly Cleveland supporting cast - they played out of their minds with all the pressure on Lebron..

How much would Lebron's high volume, MJ-approach have elevated the far superior supporting cast he had last year with the 2014 Heat, especially against the Spurs, who were inferior to the Warriors?

Of course, even if he had shot 34 times per game against the Spurs in 2014, the 2015 Finals showed us Lebron will only shoot 39.8% at that volume, even against single-coverage the entire series.. he simply doesn't have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume.
.

[aj1987]

Heat scored by far the least points per game against the Spurs of any Spurs opponent... Only 91 points per game.. So the Heat lost because of their OFFENSE.

That's why they needed Lebron to shoot more.. If Lebron shot more in 2014, he could've controlled pace like he did against the Warriors, and the Warriors are a better team - that's how effective a high volume can be at controlling pace.

Also, the Heat had far better supporting talent than the injured Cavs, so the Heat would've been controlling pace with better talent (than this year's Cavs), against a worse team (than last year's Spurs).. Don't underestimate the difference between attempting 17 shots and attempting twice as many.

Of course, even if he does shoot 34 times per game, the 2015 Finals showed us Lebron will only shoot 39.8%, even against single-coverage the entire series.. he simply doesn't have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume

You literally have no idea about basketball outside numbers, do you?

Defense, moron. Defense. Miami wasn't able to contain the Spurs' offense. How hard is that to understand?

[3ball]

You literally have no idea about basketball outside numbers, do you?

Defense, moron. Defense. Miami wasn't able to contain the Spurs' offense.


So wait, I just showed you that the Heat scored by far the least points per game against the Spurs of ANY Spurs opponent, and you still don't think their offense is why they lost?

If Lebron took more shots and controlled pace, the Spurs' can't run away with the game - that's what controlling pace does - it allows your team to control the flow of the game.. like Lebron did against the Warriors this year.

And the Warriors were a better team than the Spurs, while the Heat had better supporting talent than the Cavs... If the lowly Cavs supporting cast took the Warriors to 6 games just by Lebron shooting a ton, then the better supporting talent of the Heat could beat the inferior Spurs.. Don't underestimate the difference between attempting 17 shots and attempting twice as many.

Of course, even if he had shot 34 times per game against the Spurs in 2014, the 2015 Finals showed us Lebron will only shoot 39.8% at that volume, even against single-coverage the entire series.. he simply doesn't have the offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or the stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume.

[aj1987]

Irrelevant rubbish and utter nonsense from studying basketball reference
Watch the games, kid.

[3ball]

No Mas


Btw, MJ isn't shooting 39.8% against the Warriors, regardless of coverage, let alone single-coverage and cleared-out strongsides.

Don't ignore the stats - Lebron's isolation stats (.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1) prove MJ would shoot much better - Lebron isolated on 32.7% of his possessions in the playoffs, which led the league and represented his most-used offensive attack.. Accordingly, his below-average 33.1% FG on these isolations was the biggest factor driving his overall FG%..

Since Lebron's poor isolation ability drove his poor overall efficiency, we can assume MJ's GOAT isolation ability would result in a far better shooting percentage.

(keep in mind, the above logic IGNORES the empirical evidence showing that MJ shot far better percentages against 5-defender strongsides (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21), as opposed to the 1-defender strongsides (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377570) that Lebron shot so poorly against).
.

[aj1987]

Btw, MJ isn't shooting 39.8% against the Warriors, regardless of coverage, let alone single-coverage and cleared-out strongsides.

Don't ignore the stats - Lebron's isolation stats prove MJ would shoot much better - Lebron isolated on 32.7% of his possessions in the playoffs, which led the league and represented his most-used offensive attack.. Accordingly, his efficiency on these isolations was the biggest factor driving his overall efficiency..

But he shot very poorly on isolations - only 33.1% in the playoffs - and since isolations are what Lebron does the most, this poor isolation FG% was the biggest factor driving his poor overall FG%.. Since Lebron's poor isolation ability drove his poor overall efficiency, we can assume MJ's GOAT isolation ability would result in a far better shooting percentage.

(keep in mind, the above logic IGNORES the empirical evidence showing MJ shooting far better percentages against 5-defender strongsides (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21), as opposed to the 1-defender strongsides (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377570) that Lebron shot so poorly against).
Cool story, kid. Is that from a comic?

Waiting for you post the PO run (including Finals) in which MJ led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks.

[dubeta]

Sorry bud.. I don't speak dumbass

And I'd prefer my #1 option to score 50% more with GOAT clutch.. Seriously, why would I want my #1 option to need an entire extra HALF to match 1 game from the GOAT?

Also, I wouldn't want my #1 option to have below-average clutch and insufficient offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume.

:banana:


Your '1.5' game argument doesn't work anymore


LeBron averaged 27 ppg in the Finals, Jordan averages 33 ppg


Except LeBron also averages more assists and far more rebounds as well in the Finals, highlighting him being a better overall Finals performer than Jordan.

[3ball]

Waiting for you post the PO run in which MJ led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks.


Sorry bud.. I don't speak dumbass

I'd prefer my #1 option to score 50% more with GOAT clutch.. Seriously, why would I want my #1 option to need an entire extra HALF to match 1 game of scoring from the GOAT?

Also, I wouldn't want my #1 option to have below-average clutch or isolation ability that craters his FG%.

Nor would I want him having insufficient offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume.

:banana:

[3ball]

Except LeBron also averages more assists and far more rebounds as well in the Finals, highlighting him being a better overall Finals performer than Jordan.


Lebron averages 26 PPG for his career in the Finals, to MJ's 34 PPG.. Also, thru Lebron's current age (30), here are their playoff and Finals averages:


PLAYOFF AVERAGES THRU 30 YRS OLD:

JORDAN: 35 PPG / 6.6 APG / 50% FG
LEBRON: 28 PPG / 6.5 APG / 47% FG


FINALS AVERAGES THRU 30 YRS OLD:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 7.9 APG / 53% FG
LEBRON: 26 PPG / 6.6 APG / 44% FG


Despite undertaking a 25% and 40% higher scoring load in the playoffs, MJ averaged more assists, less TO's, and higher efficiency than Lebron thru the same age in the playoffs and Finals
.

[aj1987]

Sorry bud.. I don't speak dumbass

I'd prefer my #1 option to score 50% more with GOAT clutch.. Seriously, why would I want my #1 option to need an entire extra HALF to match 1 game of scoring from the GOAT?

Also, I wouldn't want my #1 option to have below-average clutch or isolation ability that craters his FG%.

Nor would I want him having insufficient offensive sophistication (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11188520&postcount=37) or stamina (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtKnm-Sf7t8&t=1m47s) to maintain his efficiency at the higher volume.

:banana:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11526182&postcount=35

Your entire knowledge of basketball comes from BB-REF and you're not even good at that. :roll: :roll: