NBA Statisticians / Stat-keeping

[ArbitraryWater]

NBA stat-keeping errors, the problem with letting home teams decide their stat keepers and how it skews assist numbers

http://chirb.it/pmykfK

[STATUTORY]

compare Chris Paul's assist numbers at home vs on the road for a most despicable example of this

half of chris paul's assists are just made up

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah, he's one of the offenders of this...Although "half" is pretty exaggerated.

[KyleKong]

No idea that home teams get to choose their stat keepers. :biggums:

[IncarceratedBob]

Omg a player got 2 more assists than he deserves. Who cares.

[ArbitraryWater]

Chris Paul APG:
Home: 10.4
Away: 9.4

Derrick Rose APG:
Home: 6.9
Away: 6.6

Jason Kidd APG:
Home: 9.2
Away: 8.2

Michael Jordan APG:
Home: 5.3 APG
Away: 5.1 APG

LeBron James APG:
Home: 7.0
Away: 6.8

Rose, Jordan, LeBron, hardly a difference... Chicago stat-keepers doing a good job, same for Cleveland/Miami.

But it's pretty visable for Paul and Kidd... If you would do single years, you can see the difference more clearly in certain years.

[ArbitraryWater]

Omg a player got 2 more assists than he deserves. Who cares.

It's actually pretty damn huge... Not just does this amount to over thousands in the totals category, but its also a big difference in averages.

Superstars don't really care about Home or Away, it's the Role Players that get carried from a strong home crowd.

[MP.Trey]

compare Chris Paul's assist numbers at home vs on the road for a most despicable example of this

half of chris paul's assists are just made up
This was constant down in New Orleans but I was under the impression that it pretty much evened itself out in LA.

[fpliii]

Chris Paul APG:
Home: 10.4
Away: 9.4

Derrick Rose APG:
Home: 6.9
Away: 6.6

Jason Kidd APG:
Home: 9.2
Away: 8.2

Michael Jordan APG:
Home: 5.3 APG
Away: 5.1 APG

LeBron James APG:
Home: 7.0
Away: 6.8

Rose, Jordan, LeBron, hardly a difference... Chicago stat-keepers doing a good job, same for Cleveland/Miami.

But it's pretty visable for Paul and Kidd... If you would do single years, you can see the difference more clearly in certain years.
Interesting stuff.

I'd be interested in looking at Nash, Stockton, Magic, Oscar. The first two can be checked on B-R easily (except for Stockton's rookie season). We have files for Magic and Oscar (Oscar's has a few dozen missing games; we also have Stockton's rookie year) on nbastats.net, but I don't think there's any column to designate home/road games (and it'd take a while to look up manually).

[ArbitraryWater]

Interesting stuff.

I'd be interested in looking at Nash, Stockton, Magic, Oscar. The first two can be checked on B-R easily (except for Stockton's rookie season). We have files for Magic and Oscar (Oscar's has a few dozen missing games; we also have Stockton's rookie year) on nbastats.net, but I don't think there's any column to designate home/road games (and it'd take a while to look up manually).

So home teams had their own stat keepers since forever, then, right?

Maybe back then it was different?

But anyway,

Nash:
Home: 8.3
Away: 8.7

Wow.

Stockton (Rookie year missing):
Home: 11.2
Away: 10.4

[fpliii]

So home teams had their own stat keepers since forever, then, right?

Maybe back then it was different?

But anyway,

Nash:
Home: 8.3
Away: 8.7

Wow.

Stockton (Rookie year missing):
Home: 11.2
Away: 10.4
Yeah. Back then almost everything was done in-house to cut costs, and in some cases there was an overlap between publicity personnel and statkeepers.

[fpliii]

Bit of a bump, but I had a chance to calculate home/away assists for Stockton (rookie year)/Magic/Oscar (Magic's are complete, Stockton's and Oscar's aren't...also note that when Oscar played, there were a number of games at neutral sites). hs = home season, hp = home playoffs, as = away season, ap = away playoffs, ns = neutral season, np = neutral playoffs:


Stockton

1985

hs 191/38=5.0
hp 15/4=3.75
as 205/39=5.3
ap 28/6=4.7

Magic

1980
hs 290/37=7.8
hp 97/9=10.8
as 273/40=6.8
ap 54/7=7.7

1981
hs 171/19=9.0
hp 13/2=6.5
as 140/18=7.8
ap 8/1=8.0

1982
hs 421/39=10.8
hp 73/7=10.4
as 316/39=8.1
ap 57/7=8.1

1983
hs 417/39=10.7
hp 103/8=12.9
as 412/40=10.3
ap 89/7=12.7

1984
hs 419/31=13.5
hp 153/11=13.9
as 456/36=12.7
ap 131/10=13.1

1985
hs 456/37=12.3
hp 175/11=15.9
as 513/40=12.8
ap 114/8=14.3

1986
hs 477/35=13.6
hp 118/8=14.8
as 430/37=11.6
ap 93/6=15.5

1987
hs 520/40=13.0
hp 137/10=13.7
as 457/40=11.4
ap 82/8=10.3

1988
hs 431/36=12.0
hp 197/14=14.1
as 427/36=11.9
ap 106/10=10.6

1989
hs 524/39=13.4
hp 81/7=11.6
as 464/38=12.2
ap 84/7=12.0

1990
hs 470/40=11.8
hp 63/5=12.6
as 437/39=11.2
ap 52/4=13.0

1991
hs 493/39=12.6
hp 146/11=13.3
as 496/40=12.4
ap 94/8=11.8

1996
hs 113/17=6.6
hp 8/2=4.0
as 107/15=7.1
ap 18/2=9.0

Oscar

1961
hs 289/26=11.1
hp N/A
as 184/20=9.3
ap N/A
ns 160/15=10.7
np N/A

1962
hs 415/31=13.4
hp 24/2=12.0
as 300/30=10.0
ap 20/2=10.0
ns 184/18=10.2
np N/A

1963
hs 322/31=10.4
hp 49/5=9.8
as 238/26=9.2
ap 59/7=8.4
ns 119/11=10.8
np N/A

1964
hs 378/32=11.8
hp 56/5=11.2
as 349/36=10.0
ap 28/5=5.6
ns 133/11=12.1
np N/A

1965
hs 360/29=12.4
hp 25/2=12.5
as 338/31=10.9
ap 23/2=11.5
ns 109/9=12.1
np N/A

1966
hs 354/30=11.8
hp 11/1=11.0
as 307/30=10.2
ap 0/0=0.0
ns 141/11=12.8
np N/A

1967
hs 314/27=11.6
hp 16/2=8.0
as 279/28=10.0
ap 29/2=14.5
ns 92/8=11.5
np N/A

1968
hs 182/17=10.7
hp N/A
as 196/21=9.3
ap N/A
ns 109/8=13.6
np N/A

1969
hs 180/15=12.0
hp N/A
as 247/27=9.1
ap N/A
ns 129/12=10.8
np N/A

1970
hs 183/21=8.7
hp N/A
as 230/28=8.2
ap N/A
ns 34/5=6.8
np N/A

1971
hs 293/34=8.6
hp 76/8=9.5
as 300/37=8.1
ap 48/6=8.0
ns 37/5=7.4
np N/A

1972
hs 213/24=8.9
hp 39/6=6.5
as 155/22=7.0
ap 44/5=8.8
ns 20/4=5.0
np N/A

1973
hs 168/24=7.0
hp 26/3=8.7
as 259/33=7.8
ap 19/3=6.3
ns 29/4=7.3
np N/A

1974
hs 198/29=6.8
hp 82/9=9.1
as 202/35=5.8
ap 67/7=9.6
ns 36/4=9.0
np N/A

So for their careers:

Stockton (5 games missing)
10.9 in 748 home games
10.1 in 751 road games
+0.8 home-road difference

Magic (0 games missing)
11.6 in 448 home games
10.8 in 458 road games
+0.8 home-road difference

Oscar (141 games missing)
10.4 in 370 home games
8.9 in 404 away games
10.7 in 125 neutral games
+1.5 home-road difference
+1.1 home-road/neutral difference

Would be interesting to do something similar for blocked shots (another stat with some home statistician bias).

[gts]

No idea that home teams get to choose their stat keepers. :biggums:yeah home teams supply the stat man for the regular season then when the playoffs hit guys assigned by the NBA take over

most of the guys the NBA assigns are the same team guys but are the ones considered the best of the best

I'm pretty sure it's the same with the time keepers

[RightTwoCensor]

Bit of a bump, but I had a chance to calculate home/away assists for Stockton (rookie year)/Magic/Oscar (Magic's are complete, Stockton's and Oscar's aren't...also note that when Oscar played, there were a number of games at neutral sites). hs = home season, hp = home playoffs, as = away season, ap = away playoffs, ns = neutral season, np = neutral playoffs:


Stockton

1985

hs 191/38=5.0
hp 15/4=3.75
as 205/39=5.3
ap 28/6=4.7

Magic

1980
hs 290/37=7.8
hp 97/9=10.8
as 273/40=6.8
ap 54/7=7.7

1981
hs 171/19=9.0
hp 13/2=6.5
as 140/18=7.8
ap 8/1=8.0

1982
hs 421/39=10.8
hp 73/7=10.4
as 316/39=8.1
ap 57/7=8.1

1983
hs 417/39=10.7
hp 103/8=12.9
as 412/40=10.3
ap 89/7=12.7

1984
hs 419/31=13.5
hp 153/11=13.9
as 456/36=12.7
ap 131/10=13.1

1985
hs 456/37=12.3
hp 175/11=15.9
as 513/40=12.8
ap 114/8=14.3

1986
hs 477/35=13.6
hp 118/8=14.8
as 430/37=11.6
ap 93/6=15.5

1987
hs 520/40=13.0
hp 137/10=13.7
as 457/40=11.4
ap 82/8=10.3

1988
hs 431/36=12.0
hp 197/14=14.1
as 427/36=11.9
ap 106/10=10.6

1989
hs 524/39=13.4
hp 81/7=11.6
as 464/38=12.2
ap 84/7=12.0

1990
hs 470/40=11.8
hp 63/5=12.6
as 437/39=11.2
ap 52/4=13.0

1991
hs 493/39=12.6
hp 146/11=13.3
as 496/40=12.4
ap 94/8=11.8

1996
hs 113/17=6.6
hp 8/2=4.0
as 107/15=7.1
ap 18/2=9.0

Oscar

1961
hs 289/26=11.1
hp N/A
as 184/20=9.3
ap N/A
ns 160/15=10.7
np N/A

1962
hs 415/31=13.4
hp 24/2=12.0
as 300/30=10.0
ap 20/2=10.0
ns 184/18=10.2
np N/A

1963
hs 322/31=10.4
hp 49/5=9.8
as 238/26=9.2
ap 59/7=8.4
ns 119/11=10.8
np N/A

1964
hs 378/32=11.8
hp 56/5=11.2
as 349/36=10.0
ap 28/5=5.6
ns 133/11=12.1
np N/A

1965
hs 360/29=12.4
hp 25/2=12.5
as 338/31=10.9
ap 23/2=11.5
ns 109/9=12.1
np N/A

1966
hs 354/30=11.8
hp 11/1=11.0
as 307/30=10.2
ap 0/0=0.0
ns 141/11=12.8
np N/A

1967
hs 314/27=11.6
hp 16/2=8.0
as 279/28=10.0
ap 29/2=14.5
ns 92/8=11.5
np N/A

1968
hs 182/17=10.7
hp N/A
as 196/21=9.3
ap N/A
ns 109/8=13.6
np N/A

1969
hs 180/15=12.0
hp N/A
as 247/27=9.1
ap N/A
ns 129/12=10.8
np N/A

1970
hs 183/21=8.7
hp N/A
as 230/28=8.2
ap N/A
ns 34/5=6.8
np N/A

1971
hs 293/34=8.6
hp 76/8=9.5
as 300/37=8.1
ap 48/6=8.0
ns 37/5=7.4
np N/A

1972
hs 213/24=8.9
hp 39/6=6.5
as 155/22=7.0
ap 44/5=8.8
ns 20/4=5.0
np N/A

1973
hs 168/24=7.0
hp 26/3=8.7
as 259/33=7.8
ap 19/3=6.3
ns 29/4=7.3
np N/A

1974
hs 198/29=6.8
hp 82/9=9.1
as 202/35=5.8
ap 67/7=9.6
ns 36/4=9.0
np N/A

So for their careers:

Stockton (5 games missing)
10.9 in 748 home games
10.1 in 751 road games
+0.8 home-road difference

Magic (0 games missing)
11.6 in 448 home games
10.8 in 458 road games
+0.8 home-road difference

Oscar (141 games missing)
10.4 in 370 home games
8.9 in 404 away games
10.7 in 125 neutral games
+1.5 home-road difference
+1.1 home-road/neutral difference

Would be interesting to do something similar for blocked shots (another stat with some home statistician bias).
Nice work. I may have to skew towards using away stats to compare some of the great passers in league history.

I'd think turnovers is another thing that could be home cooking. Chris Paul has 140 more career turnovers on the road than at home.

[Droid101]

really weird... some players play better at home.

My god. Call CNN!

[fpliii]

Nice work. I may have to skew towards using away stats to compare some of the great passers in league history.

I'd think turnovers is another thing that could be home cooking. Chris Paul has 140 more career turnovers on the road than at home.
I think it's harder to fudge turnovers though. Same goes for rebounds.

Blocks and assists aren't actual events that have an impact on games. A turnover means possession is lost, and a rebound means that possession was secured.

It's possible that you'll get some stuff happening (maybe calling a bad pass by the passer a lost ball by the recipient if the ball is bobbled to help out a star at home or screw him on the road), but I don't think it happens as much. Could happen with steals too actually (crediting the guy who secures the ball vs the one forcing the turnover). I don't think it's a big issue though.

Anyhow though, more reason why I'm skeptical of individual box score stats.

[tamaraw08]

Chris Paul APG:
Home: 10.4
Away: 9.4

Derrick Rose APG:
Home: 6.9
Away: 6.6

Jason Kidd APG:
Home: 9.2
Away: 8.2

Michael Jordan APG:
Home: 5.3 APG
Away: 5.1 APG

LeBron James APG:
Home: 7.0
Away: 6.8

Rose, Jordan, LeBron, hardly a difference... Chicago stat-keepers doing a good job, same for Cleveland/Miami.

But it's pretty visable for Paul and Kidd... If you would do single years, you can see the difference more clearly in certain years.
That's incredible!
, Rose had bet 6.5-6.9 assists per game? Where did he register this, "fantasy" league?
Calm down worshippers, I am just kidding...:oldlol:

[notatop29pg]

Funny that you don't take into account the fact that away teams stat keepers may also not count certain stats from opposition players.

I watched a Pelicans game about 2 weeks ago where AD had 3 clear blocks in the 1st, Only the one he swatted into the stands was counted. Finished the game with 1 block, where I counted 5 that were blatantly obvious.

I'd say it all evens out at the end of the day.

With the way home crowds literally hate some opposition players... you can't honestly tell me CP3 doesn't show up in Chicago or Oakland or anywhere else where the Home team has a good pg only to have the home town scorers be really tight on what they class as an assist?

[kshutts1]

Bit of a bump, but I had a chance to calculate home/away assists for Stockton (rookie year)/Magic/Oscar (Magic's are complete, Stockton's and Oscar's aren't...also note that when Oscar played, there were a number of games at neutral sites). hs = home season, hp = home playoffs, as = away season, ap = away playoffs, ns = neutral season, np = neutral playoffs:

So for their careers:

Stockton (5 games missing)
10.9 in 748 home games
10.1 in 751 road games
+0.8 home-road difference

Magic (0 games missing)
11.6 in 448 home games
10.8 in 458 road games
+0.8 home-road difference

Oscar (141 games missing)
10.4 in 370 home games
8.9 in 404 away games
10.7 in 125 neutral games
+1.5 home-road difference
+1.1 home-road/neutral difference

Would be interesting to do something similar for blocked shots (another stat with some home statistician bias).
Incredibly small sample size, but maybe it would be more fair to say that the home scorekeepers do it properly, while the away are the ones that try to alter?

[ralph_i_el]

It's actually pretty damn huge... Not just does this amount to over thousands in the totals category, but its also a big difference in averages.

Superstars don't really care about Home or Away, it's the Role Players that get carried from a strong home crowd.

It's also the role players that finish the shots that create assists...

[Demon Lizard]

really weird... some players play better at home.

My god. Call CNN!

My thoughts too. Teams as a whole tend to shoot better at home, so that would make more assists. Are stat keepers the only reason for better free throw percentages at home too?

[ArbitraryWater]

Should definitely have neutral stat keepers...

the amount of home cooking assists Rondo received in Boston is TOO DAMN HIGH..

[Dresta]

Quick browse tells me Wade has more assists on the road than at home. God damn Miami statisticians gotta cheat more, keep up with the rest of the league.

[Dro]

Omg a player got 2 more assists than he deserves. Who cares.
I assume you're smart enough to know this already but add an extra 2 assists for every home game, 41 games...That player has 82 gifted assists for the season. Now multiple that over 10+ seasons, yeah you get the point......