All Time Draft Round 2 Eastern Conference 1vs9 and 5vs4

[barkleynash]

VOTING IS OPEN TO EVERYONE. However, the requirement is that you have >100 post counts, and your account must be registered before Sept 14. Troll votes would not be taken into account (subjected to veto by the 3 commissioners).

Voting will close Wednesday (Nov 5th) at 11:59pm



Eastern Conference



#1 Team Buffalo
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10649303&postcount=1028 (Team Synopsis)

PG: Gary Payton 95-96
SG: Michael Jordan 92-93
SF: Glen Rice 96-97
PF: Chris Weber 01-02
C: Nate Thurmond 67-68

Bench: Tim Hardaway 96-97
Tony Allen 11-12
Thunder Dan 91-92
Dennis Rodman 91-92
Joakim Noah 13-14

Coach: Jeff VanGundy



VS



#9 Team Gotter
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10649856&postcount=1031 (team synopsis)

PG: Walt "Clyde" Frazier 71-72
SG: Sam Jones 64-65
SF: Bernard King 84-85
PF/C: Tim Duncan 02-03
C: Willis Reed 69-70

Bench: Tiny Archibald 72-73
Dale Ellis 91-92
Dave Debuscherre 71-72
Maurice Stokes 55-56
Bob McAdoo

Coach: Red Holzman




AND



#5 Team Kshutts
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10650330&postcount=1039 (team synopsis)

PG: Oscar Robertson 63-64
SG/PG: Jerry West 65-66
SF: Bruce Bowen 02-03
PF: Karl Malone 97-98
C: Dikembe Mutumbo 95-96

Bench: Doug Christie 02-03
James Harden 11-12
AK47 07-08
Donyell Marshall 04-05
Artis Gilmore 81-82

Coach: Rick Adelman



VS



#4 Team MP Trey
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10648849&postcount=1024 (team synopsis)

PG: Steve Nash 05-06
SG: John Havlicek 70-71
SF: Reggie Lewis 91-92
PF: Ralph Sampson 84-85
C: Hakeem Olajuwon 94-95

Bench: Sam Cassell 95-96
Drazen Petrovic 91-92
Shane Battier 12-13
Amare Stoudamire 04-05
Jack Sikma 77-78

Coach: Rudy Tomjanovich


You may begin your arguments, good luck to all!

Link to western conference matchups: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10683079#post10683079

Link back to Home Page: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10664321#post10664321

Link to Conference Finals: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10702226#post10702226

[Buffalobraves]

Nice! Moved on. Sorry I haven't been around I was really sick this week. I'll do a write up for this match up later tonight.

[Gotterdammerung]

Ditto.

And thanks to BarkleyNash for all the hard work! :cheers:

[KobesFinger]

I'll go Shutts and Buffalo

[Gotterdammerung]

May the best team win, Buffalo Braves :cheers:

Individual matchups:
PG: Walt Frazier and Gary Payton are both similar in that they were tall and versatile point guards that were capable of defending shooting guards. But Frazier was the superior player at taking over the game and more well rounded. More efficient (49% FG, 54% TS to 46% and 52%).

SG: Michael Jordan is an all-time great, great enough to lift an entire team by himself, but Sam Jones is no slouch. He was the leading scorer of those championship Celtics, always stepping up his game in the playoffs and hitting the biggest shots.

SF: My edge here is more pronounced than BuffaloBraves edge at shooting guard: Bernard King was a dreadnought scorer of the highest order, and would just plain eat Glen Rice's lunch. I suspect BB would have to start Dennis Rodman here, just to slow King down.

PF: Chris Webber was a multi-talented forward, but Tim Duncan routinely dominated him and the Sacramento Kings in the early 00s.

C: Nate Thurmond is an all time great defender, but he would have to stay home on Willis Reed all game long cuz of that accurate 15 foot jumper.

General Strategy: I suspect BB would have to replace Glen Rice with either Tony Allen or Dennis Rodman to keep Bernard King from exploding for 30 to 40 points a game, limiting his team's shooting capacity. Moreover, I will also bring in Dave DeBusschere to guard Jordan at key moments, if BB decides to give Jordan extended minutes. DeBusschere had the right size and strength, consummate intelligence if not necessarily the athleticism, to chest-guard Jordan the entire time.

If BB decides to guard Duncan with Nate Thurmond, I will feed Willis Reed in the post, beating up a weaker defender in Chris Webber.

Also, BB has little size on the bench besides Joakim Noah, who is a smaller and less effective defender than Nate Thurmond. Tiny and Tim Hardaway will offset one another, so will Bomber Dan and Dale Ellis. Without anyone capable of matching up with Bob McAdoo, my bench will outscore his.

[Buffalobraves]

Clyde vs Glove

Two similar playing styles with these two point guards. I think that they offset each other because of their similar skill set. I do think Payton is a better defender than Clyde although not by enough of a margin for it to be a huge difference. I think that the difference is that the Glove shutting down Fraizer offensively hurts his team more because he needs Fraizer to initiate offense for his team. Payton wouldn't have the ball in his hands for most of my teams offensive sets anyways.


Jordan vs Sam Jones

I think I have a big advantage. Sam Jones will probably not be able to effectively slow down Jordan while my team is on offense and MJ will be able to get his buckets all game long. Jones is a great scorer there is no denying that but Jordan is one of the great all time perimeter defenders so nothing will come easy for him.

King vs Rodman/Rice

As Gotter correctly predicted, I would start Rodman at SF for this game to stick on King. Rodman could do a pretty good job slowing down King while he is in, adding elite rebounding while he is in (Rodman+Webber+Thurmond grabbing boards together would be nice).If Rodman is in shadowing King I think it makes it really tough for Gotter to win because he's almost totally relying on Duncan. I think that people are underrating Rice when they evaluate my team. I have possibly the greatest player of all time playing on the other wing and if there are any double teams on him or Webber in the post you are kicking it to a guy who shot 47% at the 3 pt line.

Duncan vs Webber

Duncan is the better player overall there is no denying that but Webber showed that he could go blow for blow with Duncan in the early 2000's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QItjQjlMNOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-W0ZhPZIus

Thurmond vs Reed

Pretty much an offset here. Two ridiculously strong guys. Thurmond is a great defender and would have to lockdown on Reed.

Bench:

Tiny and Hardaway are both scorers off the bench. I'd throw McAdoo is a nice piece off the bench for Gotter's team I'd do my best to stop him with Noah. Other than that we have a few nice defenders and shooters. I'll give him a slight bench advantage because of McAdoo but overall I think I have a bigger advantage with the starters that gets me the win.

Good luck Gotter may the best team win :cheers:

[kshutts1]

I was wondering this in the last thread, too, but who is MP Trey's coach?

[kshutts1]

Gotter v Buffalo.

You both spoke of how you would defend the other. What about scoring on the other?

If Rodman is subbed for Rice, then no one on the roster can shoot beyond 18-20 feet reliably

... but that's ok, because the same is true of Gotter, though in that instance his starters would be better overall shooters.

But seriously.. how do you attack one another? Who will score? How will they score?

[kshutts1]

For my matchup, I'm going to throw what I consider a huge curve ball.
Starting lineup:
Oscar
West
Marshall
Karl
Gilmore

Offensively:
Donyell Marshall starting at SF is the curve ball, obviously.
This accomplishes a few things...
1) Nash has to guard someone.
2) My rebounding gets another notch upward. I need every board possible against his size/length.
3) This year/version of Marshall rained 3s to the tune of 2.3 per game at 42%
4) Marshall is versatile/long enough to guard Lewis adequately.

Now, Nash is forced to guard one of Oscar or West.
If Trey dares to put him on Oscar of Marshall, that player will camp out in the paint.
If West, then West gets the ball at the top of the key, every play, and attacks.
When the bigs help whomever Nash is guarding, Karl and Gilmore will be waiting for the easy 15 footer or layup. Marshall will be spotting up. West/Oscar will be spotting up from their respective sweet distances. First pass is likely to be rotated properly, but the instance the D is broken down that badly, a few passes here and there will net me a high percentage shot.

When Nash sits, well... I'm not worried about Cassell guarding anyone, either, though he's not quite the sieve Nash is. Nor is he the playmaker or shooter. If Trey makes that sacrifice, then he will suffer in offensive efficiency.

Defensively:
My team will hit the glass mercilessly. Trey is much more athletic/fast than I am in the post, and I don't want his bigs creating fast break opportunities. We're both strong rebounding teams, and hopefully crashing the offensive glass hard will neutralize his running. I will always make sure the farthest man away drops back to "cover" the fast break.

Hakeem. WTF do I do. It will be Gilmore, with a healthy dose of fast, early help defense. His "shooting" doesn't worry me, except for Nash. He will not be helped off of. I'd rather not help off Hondo, either, as he'll make smart cuts.
Hondo will be guarded by Oscar.
Nash by West.

I really think that with Nash running in to one of the best defensive PGs of all time that Trey's offense will really sputter out. He will be forced to sit Nash. I honestly don't see any other way about it against my team. The instant he sits Nash, he loses spacing, offensive creativity, and passing.

It's another team where my bigs are inferior but good enough, yet my guards so out-strip the opponent it almost doesn't seem fair.
I'm just glad the draftees allowed me to select two of the top 5 guards ever, IMO (Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Oscar, West, no order).

[barkleynash]

I was wondering this in the last thread, too, but who is MP Trey's coach?

Coach: Rudy Tomjanovich (edited in, bad cut and paste job lol)

[Buffalobraves]

Gotter v Buffalo.

You both spoke of how you would defend the other. What about scoring on the other?

If Rodman is subbed for Rice, then no one on the roster can shoot beyond 18-20 feet reliably

... but that's ok, because the same is true of Gotter, though in that instance his starters would be better overall shooters.

But seriously.. how do you attack one another? Who will score? How will they score?

When Rodman is on the court of half court offense would be Jordan on an iso trying to get mid range buckets or getting to the rack and Webber from the high post. As soon as King leaves the game so would Rodman and we'd get Rice in there to spread the floor.

[kshutts1]

When Rodman is on the court of half court offense would be Jordan on an iso trying to get mid range buckets or getting to the rack and Webber from the high post. As soon as King leaves the game so would Rodman and we'd get Rice in there to spread the floor.
Seems very reactionary.

Why not create a mismatch, rather than just fix them?

[Buffalobraves]

Seems very reactionary.

Why not create a mismatch, rather than just fix them?

Well Rice has to get his minutes but I don't want him covering King very often. So I'll get him his minutes and make us an improved offensive team while King sits.

[barkleynash]

Well Rice has to get his minutes but I don't want him covering King very often. So I'll get him his minutes and make us an improved offensive team while King sits.

Is Rodman getting any burn at the 4 in this matchup freeing up more time for Rice or is he playing exclusively the 3 vs King?

[Buffalobraves]

Is Rodman getting any burn at the 4 in this matchup freeing up more time for Rice or is he playing exclusively the 3 vs King?
Rodman gets some Burn at the 4 when him and Rice could be on the court together but still but not as much as usual. I think locking down King is more important than getting offense from Rice.

[Gotterdammerung]

....[snip]....
But seriously.. how do you attack one another? Who will score? How will they score?

Right, I posted the earlier missive to draw out BB's strategy.

He is under the mistaken assumption that Walt Clyde Frazier "runs" Team Gotterdammerung's offense. He was no ball-dominant guard like Chris Paul who relies on screen and roll offenses to get easier shots. In fact, with Coach Holzman, the entire team runs the offense. Frazier is strictly a primary ball carrier that crosses the halfcourt, and if there's a weaker defender, he will operate from the high post. He'll start 25 feet from the basket, back down the defender, razzle & dazzle a couple of times until he got to that spot at the top of the key and hit a moonshot in the defender's face. If Payton is glued to Frazier at the hip, due to his offensive potential, then the Glove cannot roam the floor and prey on the passing lanes.

Jordan is a great defender, but Sam Jones is the prototypical guard: a 6' 4" athlete with long arms, explosive first step and a killer bank shot, and zero holes in his game. He averaged 30 points in Game 7 or deciding Game 5 as a starter. Too many playoff heroics to list here. In my offense, the "pass to the open man" offense, Jones will come off picks, be it staggered picks or double picks set by the wide Willis Reed and Duncan. Jordan is a great defender, but this requires a lock & follow type, quite exhausting to chase a dogged scorer whose only job is to hit the open shot.

Even Dennis Rodman can't stop Bernard King. He was one of the 5 most unstoppable scorers in NBA history. Game 4 of the Knicks - Celts series in the 84 playoffs, he was tripled teamed by the eventual champion, and finished with 46 points. That series went the distance, despite Boston having Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ, Maxwell, Aigne, etc., etc. The Knicks had King and.. uh... Bill Cartwright. :facepalm
Link to Game 4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEVdHo2OYs4)

Because that turnaround jumper was unblockable, if Rodman overplayed King, he would show them the turnaround, and spin the other way for a wide open leaner. Great stop and pop and absolutely devastating on fastbreaks.

The main difference between Duncan and Chris Webber is that besides their difference in talent and skills, Duncan was a clutch performer. Webber treated the ball like a hot potato in the big moment. :oldlol: If BB plays Duncan straight up, and concede him 40 points, and try to shut down everyone else, the problem here is that Duncan will saddle Webber with foul trouble easily, forcing him to dip in his bench. Joakim Noah is a good defender, no doubt. But that'll cripple his offense with three non-scoring threats in the front court.

If BB goes to zone, a 2-3 alignment to swarm Duncan and deny him the ball, the problem is that the pass will cover more ground than his defenders can slide or run full speed. A couple of reverse passes will find the open shooter versus that zone.

If BB orders his guys to muscle Duncan off his favorite spots, and overplay his top shoulder (left shoulder on the right box, and vice versa), denying the middle, force him to the baseline and plug the paint with Thurmond or a second big. Duncan may shoot jumpers without the backboard, but due to the plethora of options on offense, he won't have to out of necessity.

Since my team is one of the most intelligent in the tournament, a fronting defender will not slow down the offense, cuz the weak side big man (Reed) will be shifted towards the foul line. Duncan can seal the defender on his back and Reed has a clear lane to pass over the fronting defender for a easy layup.

Reed is a reliable & versatile scorer fromt he high post and the pivot and on either baseline. He had a soft jumper and deadly hooks and a fadeaway. He's probably the failsafe when neither King nor Duncan can get going, or Frazier and Jones can't spring free. Plus when Reed rebounds, nobody will try to contest the ball due to those powerful elbows and shoulders. Nate Thurmond has to stay home on Reed all game long, because he can't leave him to protect the basket on penetration.

Bench: King will play heavy minutes, which means BB won't be able to give Glen Rice much time on the floor to space my defense, which is fundamentally sound on the interior with Duncan and Reed.

Tiny Archibald had one of the most superior handles in league history that teams never thought about trying to press him full-court. He could dribble to any spot on the floor any time of the game. That meant he could get to the rim and draw a foul if the situation necessitated it. BB's defender will always play 4 feet off of Tiny because no defender wants to have his ankles broken. That means I start my offense between the foul line and the top of the key every possession. :cheers:

McAdoo was an undersized center whose powerful offensive game was unstoppable facing the basket, with that beautiful unblockable jumper from the top of his head, he would flourish with a faster pace, alongside Nate "Tiny" Archibald. He was coachable, given the fact that Jack Ramsay, a tough coach, absolutely loved him, praised him effusively in 1976.

[Buffalobraves]

He is under the mistaken assumption that Walt Clyde Frazier "runs" Team Gotterdammerung's offense. He was no ball-dominant guard like Chris Paul who relies on screen and roll offenses to get easier shots. In fact, with Coach Holzman, the entire team runs the offense. Frazier is strictly a primary ball carrier that crosses the halfcourt, and if there's a weaker defender, he will operate from the high post. He'll start 25 feet from the basket, back down the defender, razzle & dazzle a couple of times until he got to that spot at the top of the key and hit a moonshot in the defender's face. If Payton is glued to Frazier at the hip, due to his offensive potential, then the Glove cannot roam the floor and prey on the passing lanes.

I think you are overstating Clyde's offensive game here. Fraizer didn't have crazy range beyond a mid range jumper. For Clyde to be effective he would need to get past the free throw line which would be tough with Payton guarding him. Clyde would have to be at the 3 pt line to give entry passes to Duncan. If Clyde is at the 3 pt line Payton wouldn't need to be glued on him and could get in passing lanes and effectively start fast breaks.


Jordan is a great defender, but Sam Jones is the prototypical guard: a 6' 4" athlete with long arms, explosive first step and a killer bank shot, and zero holes in his game. He averaged 30 points in Game 7 or deciding Game 5 as a starter. Too many playoff heroics to list here. In my offense, the "pass to the open man" offense, Jones will come off picks, be it staggered picks or double picks set by the wide Willis Reed and Duncan. Jordan is a great defender, but this requires a lock & follow type, quite exhausting to chase a dogged scorer whose only job is to hit the open shot.

I'd just have Jordan run under the screens and have whichever big is defending show for a minute. Jones doens't have 3 pt range and he isn't going to get his bank shot that easily if Jordan is guarding him off the dribble.



Even Dennis Rodman can't stop Bernard King. He was one of the 5 most unstoppable scorers in NBA history. Game 4 of the Knicks - Celts series in the 84 playoffs, he was tripled teamed by the eventual champion, and finished with 46 points. That series went the distance, despite Boston having Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ, Maxwell, Aigne, etc., etc. The Knicks had King and.. uh... Bill Cartwright. :facepalm
Because that turnaround jumper was unblockable, if Rodman overplayed King, he would show them the turnaround, and spin the other way for a wide open leaner. Great stop and pop and absolutely devastating on fastbreaks.

Who checked King in that Celtics series? Bird and Parrish I'm pretty sure? Neither of those guys are close to Rodman's level of defense. The guy guarded everyone well from Jordan to Shaq. King will score but it will be contained by Rodman's length and tenacity. I'd wager that King would shot that turnaround jumper at a much lower percentage with Rodman's hand in his face.



The main difference between Duncan and Chris Webber is that besides their difference in talent and skills, Duncan was a clutch performer. Webber treated the ball like a hot potato in the big moment. :oldlol: If BB plays Duncan straight up, and concede him 40 points, and try to shut down everyone else, the problem here is that Duncan will saddle Webber with foul trouble easily, forcing him to dip in his bench. Joakim Noah is a good defender, no doubt. But that'll cripple his offense with three non-scoring threats in the front court.

When it comes down to the last shot I'm pretty sure everyone knows who on my team is getting the ball anyways. You are severely underrating Duncan here. He can and has played to Duncans level in the past. I'd switch Thurmond and Webber on and off defending Reed. Gotter tends to rely on the assumption that Reed will "bully" whoever is covering him in the post. Webber and Reed are both 6' 9" and Webber weighed 10 more pounds than Reed did. It wouldn't be that big of a mismatch and Webber wouldn't back down as easily as you would expect. I think Reed bullied in an era of skinner players but Webber played against some pretty elite athletes.

Here's the vid of Webber playing to Duncans level if anyone didn't see it the first time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QItjQjlMNOA

and here's him outplaying Duncan late in the 4th quarter (not treating ball like hot potato and defending him effectively)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-W0ZhPZIus



Bench: King will play heavy minutes, which means BB won't be able to give Glen Rice much time on the floor to space my defense, which is fundamentally sound on the interior with Duncan and Reed.

My midrange game is solid with Jordan and Payton. Thurmond will be able to get some baskets against Reed seeing as he's a 20 PPG scorer playing against a guy that is 2 inches shorter than him. Add in Rodman grabbing some offensive rebounds. My offense wouldn't be outrageous that game but having the GOAT and a stellar defense should still get me the win here.


Tiny Archibald had one of the most superior handles in league history that teams never thought about trying to press him full-court. He could dribble to any spot on the floor any time of the game. That meant he could get to the rim and draw a foul if the situation necessitated it. BB's defender will always play 4 feet off of Tiny because no defender wants to have his ankles broken. That means I start my offense between the foul line and the top of the key every possession. :cheers:

http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/071210_Tony_Allen_Raises_Arms.jpg

None of that will be happening with his guy on him

[wally_world]

Wow shocker to see Buffalo so willingly benching Rice. Clyde, Sam Jones, King all terrific scorers, but there's only 1 ball to go around, especially on the perimeter. I'd hide Rice with whoever is gonna hurt the least offensively since you have 2 excellent and versatile defenders in MJ/GP. On the offensive end, your trio is gonna hurt them alot more than they are gonna hurt you. Would like to see adjusted rotations and defensive matchups to get a better idea.

Right now i think Gotter has the edge in the frontcourt, and Buffalo in the backcourt and bench (i like their synergy alot more). But it'll be up to which team being able to exploit their advantages more. I'll keep it open for now.

[wally_world]

As for the other matchups, based on what I've read, not a big fan of the "Donyell deception" yet. He's still generally a spot-up shooter, who Nash can guard, i don't think it'll be wiser to have Nash guard Oscar/Jerry. Tbh i'd rather have AK47 if I do decide to bench Bowen.

Alot of talent in the post, whichever team can carve an edge here would really have the advantage swinging towards them. Both teams have things going for them, would like to hear MP Trey's response before i jump into any conclusions.

[kshutts1]

As for the other matchups, based on what I've read, not a big fan of the "Donyell deception" yet. He's still generally a spot-up shooter, who Nash can guard, i don't think it'll be wiser to have Nash guard Oscar/Jerry. Tbh i'd rather have AK47 if I do decide to bench Bowen.

Alot of talent in the post, whichever team can carve an edge here would really have the advantage swinging towards them. Both teams have things going for them, would like to hear MP Trey's response before i jump into any conclusions.
If they put Nash on Donyell, then Marshall can post him up. Easy. Just because he was typically a spot-up, and I drafted him as a shooter, doesn't mean that at 6'9, 240 he wouldn't muscle Nash in the lane if dude tried to guard him.

Reason Bowen is on the bench is because I wouldn't trust him in the post. Nor do I trust AK as much as I trust DM.

So now we're faced with Nash either guarding one of West, Oscar, Donyell.. or Nash, and his team's offense, sitting.

I'm forcing him to adjust to me, because I don't lose much, at all, in this swap.

[wally_world]

If they put Nash on Donyell, then Marshall can post him up. Easy. Just because he was typically a spot-up, and I drafted him as a shooter, doesn't mean that at 6'9, 240 he wouldn't muscle Nash in the lane if dude tried to guard him.

Reason Bowen is on the bench is because I wouldn't trust him in the post. Nor do I trust AK as much as I trust DM.

So now we're faced with Nash either guarding one of West, Oscar, Donyell.. or Nash, and his team's offense, sitting.

I'm forcing him to adjust to me, because I don't lose much, at all, in this swap.

I was expecting you to say that. But how much room does Donyell have to work with in the post? With Hakeem and Sampson in there. And if your offense is gonna make feeding Marshall a priority, over letting West/Oscar/Mailman work, i don't think it'll be better off. It's a good strategy on the surface, but probably wont work out as envisioned.

[kshutts1]

I was expecting you to say that. But how much room does Donyell have to work with in the post? With Hakeem and Sampson in there. And if your offense is gonna make feeding Marshall a priority, over letting West/Oscar/Mailman work, i don't think it'll be better off. It's a good strategy on the surface, but probably wont work out as envisioned.
Not a focus. No one but West, Oscar or Karl is EVER a focus. But rather a matchup. And a threat.

And Karl can hit a jumper, so Hakeem or Sampson will be on him. Assuming someone makes a quick double, I've got an open shot. If no quick double, then I've got... an open shot with Nash watching from right below.

It's about creating and exploiting matchups, but that doesn't mean I have to use them. Abuse Nash just a couple of times, and suddenly he's benched.

[wally_world]

Not a focus. No one but West, Oscar or Karl is EVER a focus. But rather a matchup. And a threat.

And Karl can hit a jumper, so Hakeem or Sampson will be on him. Assuming someone makes a quick double, I've got an open shot. If no quick double, then I've got... an open shot with Nash watching from right below.

It's about creating and exploiting matchups, but that doesn't mean I have to use them. Abuse Nash just a couple of times, and suddenly he's benched.

And the other of Sampson/Hakeem will be there with help defense. Mutumbo doesn't have range outside of the paint, and Marshall isn't a great passer as well so help defense has it easy. And if that mismatch is something you're gonna exploit just a few times a game, I think they can live with that. Not sure why im arguing for MP Trey tho.

[kshutts1]

And the other of Sampson/Hakeem will be there with help defense. Mutumbo doesn't have range outside of the paint, and Marshall isn't a great passer as well so help defense has it easy. And if that mismatch is something you're gonna exploit just a few times a game, I think they can live with that. Not sure why im arguing for MP Trey tho.
I specified Gilmore would start.

But whether dude scores, or chooses to pass... making the defense collapse like that creates opportunities for others. And if my worst offensive player can make the D collapse, just because of the matchup, then even if he doesn't score... that's a win.

And consider this... I think Nash is such a bad defender (and could be misguided here) that just the threat of Nash being posted up by Marshall would merit a defensive rotation or at least "slag". Just Marshall pulling into the paint would be reason to change rotations, and open up the game for others.

I'm not saying Marshall is going to score 50 points and win the series. I'm saying that either...
A) mismatches will be created, and recognized, and Nash will be pulled, thus killing their own O
or
B) Said mismatches will not be matched/recognized, and Nash/they will be abused.

Flawless? No. But at the end of the day, I believe my team is much more equipped to defend his than the reverse. I'm not the most well-rounded, or versatile, team in the tourney. But I'm too well-rounded and versatile for Trey to defend, particularly while maintaining his offensive identity.

[barkleynash]

Makes me sad seeing nash abused... that being said I'd take his poison and have him guard west just to start the game and then quick sub him for cassell and bring nash back as soon as west subs out. (nash on Oscar would be total suicide) Means it would be a bit of a time share with Sam but better than totally benching him. Nash would be nice with the 2nd unit with Amare anyway.

Not sure who's gonna guard Karl for MP. Trey. I feel the Mailman will really bully either Sampson or Amare. Perhaps Hakeem will once again come to the rescue like he did last round vs the Chuckster...

still up in the air for me in this one. I'll make up my mind tomorrow

[kshutts1]

Makes me sad seeing nash abused... that being said I'd take his poison and have him guard west just to start the game and then quick sub him for cassell and bring nash back as soon as west subs out. (nash on Oscar would be total suicide) Means it would be a bit of a time share with Sam but better than totally benching him. Nash would be nice with the 2nd unit with Amare anyway.

Not sure who's gonna guard Karl for MP. Trey. I feel the Mailman will really bully either Sampson or Amare. Perhaps Hakeem will once again come to the rescue like he did last round vs the Chuckster...

still up in the air for me in this one. I'll make up my mind tomorrow
I like that you point out two rather large advantages I have... then go on to say that you're still not sure.

Is my team that bad? Is Hakeem really considered that good? Hakeem is, quite literally, the only player on his team that has an advantage over mine.

[Buffalobraves]

I'm taking Kshutts over MPTrey in their game. I think their front courts and benches play even and Kshutts gets a slight edge with Oscar and West over Nash and Havlicek.

[Gotterdammerung]

Apologies on my absence. Wanted to post but life had other plans.
Will respond to BuffaloBraves today and make picks in other threads. :cheers:

[wally_world]

My official vote is for KShutt. Not buying the Donyell deception, but overall they still matchup well being able to cover all positions.

Will wait for the final argument on the other matchup.

[barkleynash]

I like that you point out two rather large advantages I have... then go on to say that you're still not sure.

Is my team that bad? Is Hakeem really considered that good? Hakeem is, quite literally, the only player on his team that has an advantage over mine.

Sometimes it's fun to sit on the fence a little haha. I was leaning towards your squad but the Nash Homer in me wanted to see if there was going to be a counter argument. With the Chuckster out already and Nash looking like he'll be gone soon too there will be no more chance for tainted votes from me anymore haha :hammerhead:

I suppose I'll lock in my vote for Team Kshutts and his beastly backcourt now. I'll have to look again at the other matchup before I cast that vote

[kurple]

buffalo and mp trey

[barkleynash]

Gotta go with team Buffalo in this one. Would be an ugly oldschool grind it out series with very little long balls used by either team (Buffalo still had more deep threats despite benching Rice). I don't think Rodman would've stopped King, maybe slowed him a bit but Buffalo obviously still has the best closer in MJ and a stingier defence top to bottom so he gets the nod.

[barkleynash]

Congrats to Team Buffalo and Team Kshutts for advancing to the Eastern Conference Finals. Should be a good series!

Link to Conference Finals: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10702226#post10702226