Is LeBron one of the best half-court scorers of all time?

[dubeta]

I mean, the way he shredded the best defense Bulls got me thinking...


LeBron can pull up from anywhere

Can hit contested J's

Diverse skillset from the triple threat position

Can attack the basket at will

Great fundamentals

Can post up anyone


What do you think?

[SexSymbol]

I think of what this forum would be without you and your alts.

[MrC1991]

The answer simply is yes. Theres no denying Lebron is a top 10 player of all time. I'm not a LeBron fan by anymeans but I can't deny his skill and greatness.

[ArbitraryWater]

I think of what this forum would be without you and your alts.

Name me ONE Kobe stan on this entire board, that this board would be better off without... ONE.

Lemme guess, Kobe stans are "funny" ?

[fpliii]

Depends on how long your all-time list is. Haven't given it much thought.

[dubeta]

Depends on how long your all-time list is. Haven't given it much thought.

5 people

LeBron

MJ

Kareem

T Mac

Shaq

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I think of what this forum would be without you and your alts.
:cheers:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

yes

[fpliii]

5 people

LeBron

MJ

Kareem

T Mac

Shaq
Bird? Hakeem? Dirk?

[IncarceratedBob]

If T-Mac makes it then Durant should be ahead of him.

[Blue&Orange]

lol i would label this a joke thread, but lebrontards really believe in the crap they say.


Name me one top200 player that scored more points in transition than Lebron :lol

Lelayup top half court scorer :roll:

[dubeta]

If T-Mac makes it then Durant should be ahead of him.

FTs

[IncarceratedBob]

Kobe/Durant/Melo:

can pull up from anywhere? Yes

Can hit contested J's? Yes

Diverse skillset from the triple threat position? Yes

Can attack the basket at will? Yes

Great fundamentals? Yes

Can post up anyone? Yes

[COnDEMnED]

5 people

LeBron

MJ

Kareem

T Mac

Shaq
Lebron and T-Mac, as much as I like Tracy, have no business on that list.

[K Xerxes]

Kobe/Durant/Melo:

can pull up from anywhere? Yes

Can hit contested J's? Yes

Diverse skillset from the triple threat position? Yes

Can attack the basket at will? Yes

Great fundamentals? Yes

Can post up anyone? Yes

Can finish layups? No for Melo.

[IncarceratedBob]

Can finish layups? No for Melo.
Sorry, but according to the OP having all of these skills are what is needed to be one of the best half-court scorers of all time.

[3ball]

is this thread a joke?

the ONLY way lebron has a big game is by dominating the ball.

it works well enough because he is a great athlete, but we've seen how in the playoffs and Finals, this unadjustable ability can get completely shut down - lebron's regular season numbers are routinely better than his postseason numbers, just like most college players, whose numbers dip when they get to the higher level of competition in the NBA.


jordan
bird
kobe
durant
hakeem
kareem
shaq


just off the top of my head... all these guys are significantly better half-court scorers.

now as for transition scorers?... lebron is on a goat level... he might be THE goat at transition scoring... i'm serious... just look at a compilation of his dunks - NO ONE gets that many dunks or finishes in transition... no one.
.

[MellowYellow]

You gotta be kitten me, Lebrick would never shoot 50% from the field if it weren't for his transition game.

[FKAri]

No...because it's one of his weakest attributes. He's very good but it's not all-time great.

[mehyaM24]

of course - the main difference being his ability to post (he's ALWAYS been able to, but he's made it a staple in his game TODAY).

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/indapost-54553326f3ace.gif

lebron once was able to take jumpers in the post, but now he is smarter, he is able to get by you (as you see in this *gif) and get himself an easy 2 points.

aside from the *gifs, all one needs to do, is look at his numbers in the half court. it is clear that lebron's post-up game has evolved into the league’s best. here are his post up plays in percentages heading back into his first season with miami.

Season Possession %
2010-11 8.0%
2011-12 13.9%
2012-13 11.9%
2013-14 16.2%
(source: Synergy Sports Tech)


here are his on post-up possessions/efficiency:
Season To rim PPP Rank
2010-11 13.7% 1.043 4
2011-12 14.9% 0.959 5
2012-13 15.0% 0.972 4
2013-14 29.6% 1.185 1


as you see, lebron is up there with BIGS as the most successful and dominant post up player. he deserves ALL the credit in the world, as his approach from his early cleveland days has drastically changed.

of course, this is ignorning lebron's received high praise last year for his efficiency in the midrange and long range game (which to my knowledge, has improved even more THIS season).

[3ball]

of course - the main difference being his ability to post (he's ALWAYS been able to, but he's made it a staple in his game TODAY).

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/indapost-54553326f3ace.gif

.
first of all, i'm surprised you have the temerity to post a move that clearly is not a strength of his, and that he doesn't do nearly as well as numerous past greats who LIVED on such moves.

the gif shows a weak finish at the rim, after taking a ton of time to even start the move... he barely gets off the ground, which is not surprising because we know he is not that explosive in tight spaces and without a good running start... to act like this holds a candle to Jordan takes a goat-level poker face.

secondly, lebron is a massive ball-dominator that RARELY posts - this is a fact... he can't have a big game relying on his post play or off-ball play - he HAS to dominate the ball to have a big game... show me a game where he had more than 5 buckets on the post.

now as for transition scorers?... lebron is on a goat level... he might be THE goat at transition scoring... i'm serious... just look at a compilation of his dunks - NO ONE gets that many dunks or finishes in transition... no one.
.

[mehyaM24]

first of all, i'm surprised you have the temerity to post such an inferior baseline move to anything you'd see out of Jordan in that spot.

the gif shows a weak finish at the rim, after taking a ton of time to even start the move... he barely gets off the ground, which is not surprising because we know he is not that explosive in tight spaces and without a good running start... to act like this holds a candle takes a goat-level poker face.

secondly, lebron is a massive ball-dominator that RARELY posts - this is a fact... he can't havea big game relying on his post play or off-ball play - he HAS to dominate the ball to have a big game... show me a game where he had more than 5 buckets on the post.

STATS show that last season, lebron was #1 in points per possession on the low block - meaning he was THE MOST EFFICIENT player in the post (top 4 for the last 3 seasons).

what does this mean? lebron is more dominant THAN BIGS around the basket and among the deadliest scorers all time in the HALF COURT.

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/lebrondapost2-5455346d0a3ad.gif

^^^^how can you defend that? he can take it inside, baseline or fade on you.. either way, the efficiency in which is devastating.

[3ball]

he rarely posts at all, so who cares about his efficiency.

it's the same thing you guys say about a 3-point shooter that has super-low volume - you can't compare lebron's occasional fetish to someone that lives off the shot.

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/lebrondapost2-5455346d0a3ad.gif



also, how can you compare this rigid, stick-like, robot-looking turnaround shot to the grace and mastery of kobe, bird, or jordan?

doing so makes it look like you don't know basketball.

[mehyaM24]

he rarely posts at all, so who cares about his efficiency.

it's the same thing you guys say about a 3-point shooter that has super-low volume - you can't compare lebron's occasional fetish to someone that lives off the shot.

i dont think you understand that a player using 16% of his possessions down on the low block...is HUGE. kobe for example, spent his time in the post (high and low) 20% of the time - and he's more of an off ball player when you think about it. keep in mind lebron is PRIMAIRLY an on ball player and usually the SOLE playmaker on his teams.

of course - you simply cant ask him to do everything out there. this season, i feel you'll see him a BUNCH on the low block- and his efficiency will remain blistering.

[Lebronxrings]

From all my years of watching basketball, i can tell you no one can score better than lebron. Not wilt, not kareem, nor mj. Literally no one can shut him down, cept the refs.

[mehyaM24]

also, how can you compare this rigid, stick-like, robot-looking turnaround shot to the grace and mastery of kobe, bird, or jordan?

doing so makes it look like you don't know basketball.
results > perceived beauty

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1098728/lebron-layup-h.gif

^^^^^^^ low post BEAST :pimp:

[3ball]

results > perceived beauty

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1098728/lebron-layup-h.gif

^^^^^^^ low post BEAST :pimp:
lebron posts only 16% of the time.

you screwed yourself right there.... :confusedshrug:

this might not be bad for today's 3-and-D stiffs that view the post as bad offense and instead abide by 3-pointers, FT's and at-rim shot allocations, but this is nothing compared to previous eras where virtually every offense in the league ran through the post.

show me a game where he dominated from the post - it doesn't exist, so you are wrong.

[mehyaM24]

so show me a game where he had more than 5 buckets on the post.... **** it... more than 3 buckets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5m0yOiQXeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0p_eGkI1sw

^^^^ look no further than 2 games from this season. first video he scores 70% of his points from the lowblock.. great feel for the post, lebron has. :applause:

[3ball]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5m0yOiQXeI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0p_eGkI1sw

^^^^ look no further than 2 games from this season. first video he scores 70% of his points from the lowblock.. great feel for the post, lebron has. :applause:
5 buckets from the post in a preseason game where he totaled 26 points - hardly dominating from the post.

but i have come to understand that to lebron stans, this IS "dominating from the post."

he clearly was just messing around in the preseason - he doesn't have 5 buckets in the post from both of the first two regular season games combined.

and last night's game - i don't think he posted up even 1 time.... but i appreciate the attempt on your part... :oldlol:

[Ai2death]

Bulls with no Jimmy, Noah and Rose on minutes restrictions. No Rose in the 4th.
but sure LeFlops a bitch.

[c5terror]

I mean, the way he shredded the best defense Bulls got me thinking...


LeBron can pull up from anywhere

Can hit contested J's

Diverse skillset from the triple threat position

Can attack the basket at will

Great fundamentals

Can post up anyone


What do you think?

-90% of his jumpshot were open J, he's the only player perimeter player that was given and was dare to shoot wide open jumpshot as a defense strategy.
-all he has is drive, dunk and spot at 3's.
-LOL if he was given an open lane, but in traffic? no he'll just pass LOL
-LOL he's not fundamentally sound, he's not a technical player, bad footwork, his pumpfake suck, his off-the ball offense sucks, OUTside of oscar flop, he don't have any craftiness and intangible.
-LOL No he can't

[mehyaM24]

From all my years of watching basketball, i can tell you no one can score better than lebron. Not wilt, not kareem, nor mj. Literally no one can shut him down, cept the refs.

agreed - and we are talking about a player who's BEST with THE basketball.


"When he returned after the lockout, he was a totally different player," Spoelstra says. "It was as if he downloaded a program with all of Olajuwon's and Ewing's post-up moves. I don't know if I've seen a player improve that much in a specific area in one offseason. His improvement in that area alone transformed our offense to a championship level in 2012.

"His post game is beautiful," Hakeem mentions

hakeem, quite possibly THE best low post player, acknowledging the evolution of lebron's post game. of course - lebron is at his best, playmaking for his team and not wasting possessions with his back to the basket. his best asset is his passing - everyone knows that.

what's interesting though, is that it took a number of different things to come into play for lebron to truly embrace his back to the basket. iirc, chris bosh was injured against the pacers during the 2012 playoffs (that's right - the 2012 ECF) - and the heat adjusted by spreading their shooters out and playing its best player inside.

naturally it was a work in progress (the arch angel and lebron system employed was successful all regular season), but it worked masterfully when it counted most:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7EUe5V-5PY#t=0m18s

just a beautiful step back from the mid-to-low post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ5GZhEYLnk

^^^^ fast forward to the 2013 finals. here we see him taking it to the basket with a quick spin, instead. notice how leonard plays lebron in the middle, practically opening up the baseline? lebron simply reverses - and gets an off hand beauty to go down (imo, this is where lebron is most dangerous- executing with concise footwork in tight spaces).

this is why i say, lebron is a nightmare for defenses in the post. defenses have to double quick, on any spot on the floor, but especially down low where he can counter you with his off hand, or kick it out to shooters with his brilliant passing - essentially you're trying to defend the indefensible