" I believe in fighting through the tough times"- Kobe Bryant

[BigBoss]

Kobe Bryant isn't ready to start issuing trade demands as the Los Angeles Lakers look like a team that will have a difficult time reaching the playoffs.

"I hear the chatter of Kobe should ask out and he should go and play for a contender in this latter stage of his career," Bryant told Yahoo Sports. "But that's not what I do. I'm extremely loyal to the Lakers.

"I believe in fighting through the tough times as well as enjoying the good times. It's my responsibility to get us to be the best that we can be. It's important that we approach that on a day-to-day basis."

The Lakers are off to a 0-4 start and have already lost Julius Randle and Steve Nash for the season.

"We can't get discouraged by it," Bryant said. "It's a very long season. You just have to stay the course. Keep on looking to improve, keep on looking to get better and things will eventually break.

"I've enjoyed a great amount of success here. You can't just enjoy the successful times and then run away from the bad ones. No, I don't even think about [departing]. I'm a Laker."

Ladies and gentleman. The fundamental difference between Kobe Bryant and Lebron James.


Please don't give me that BS that he demanded a trade. Actions speak louder than words.

http://localtvwjw.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/lebron-decision1.jpg

http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/pages/images/cms/imce/users/dantec/2014/07/lebron-james-si-cavs-header.jpg

Whose this bitch trying to fool?

[Kblaze8855]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

[PsychoBe]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS"....

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. Isat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

tell the whole story.

why aren't you exposing the fact that the lakers front office blatantly lied to him when telling him that they were going to put him in the best position to win since they believed in their infinite wisdom that shaq was done and they didn't want to pay him but instead gave him kwame brown and smush parker and he was stuck with one of the worst rosters in the west for almost six years?

you exposed nothing. in the end they made the moves to get pau gasol to attempt to appease him and got phil back and the rest was history.

[AnaheimLakers24]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.
kobe didnt leave
bran did
:roll:

[Cocaine80s]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.
:lebronamazed:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.
#ether

[Smook A.]

Then why didn't he do it in 2007?

[plowking]

Why do Kobe and Lebron fans actually care where they stay or if they stick to the one team. It doesn't matter for you guys, you are going to be supporting the team they're on anyway.

Nothing wrong with it either. Support a team or a player.

[imnew09]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.


Yea tell the one sided story, but not the true story. Well, that's what haters do tho :confusedshrug:

Anyways, Lakers been with the Lakers 19th season. :bowdown:

[IncarceratedBob]

Then why didn't he do it in 2007?
He didn't? Never played a game for another team.

[Kblaze8855]

Who said I exposed anything? Its all very well known. We sat here listening to hour long special on the issue...radio interviews...500 post topics....speculation and trade rumors. Reports on Kobe telling season ticket holders he was gone....im not trying to expose a thing....because it all happened too recently and its irrefutable.

The only issue is...people being emotional about it and pretending that not getting a request granted is honestly the same thing as not making one.

Why he asked out is immaterial. And I dont much care that he did.

But it happened. The Bulls not throwing in Deng...does not make Kobe loyal.

It means he was told no.

Being told no...is not the same as not wanting something to begin with.

Not to anyone being rational at least.

[tpols]

Wow... Kobe might just be the most loyal player of all time. Mad respect.

[plowking]

Wow... Kobe might just be the most loyal player of all time. Mad respect.

Him and Bron might just be the two best humans ever.

[navy]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.
http://science.uvu.edu/ochem/wp-content/images/E/ether3.png

[BigBoss]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

VP was a title and Magic tends to embellish. Dr. Buss would not have traded Kobe. Kobe demanded the trade as a power play to get help. It worked. Regardless, Lakers were playing well and trade talks tied down BEFORE landing Pau. Bynum injured in his knee, then the Kwame-Pau trade happened. Discussion was over.

[T_L_P]

tell the whole story.

why aren't you exposing the fact that the lakers front office blatantly lied to him when telling him that they were going to put him in the best position to win since they believed in their infinite wisdom that shaq was done and they didn't want to pay him but instead gave him kwame brown and smush parker and he was stuck with one of the worst rosters in the west for almost six years?

you exposed nothing. in the end they made the moves to get pau gasol to attempt to appease him and got phil back and the rest was history.

:biggums:

[Smook A.]

He didn't? Never played a game for another team.
He requested a trade that year.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Who said I exposed anything? Its all very well known. We sat here listening to hour long special on the issue...radio interviews...500 post topics....speculation and trade rumors. Reports on Kobe telling season ticket holders he was gone....im not trying to expose a thing....because it all happened too recently and its irrefutable.

The only issue is...people being emotional about it and pretending that not getting a request granted is honestly the same thing as not making one.

Why he asked out is immaterial. And I dont much care that he did.

But it happened. The Bulls not throwing in Deng...does not make Kobe loyal.

It means he was told no.

Being told no...is not the same as not wanting something to begin with.

Not to anyone being rational at least.

Shut it down, Blaze. :pimp:

People talk about LeBron "quitting" and all that noise -- while that is true, fact is Kobe was a few losses and a Pau Gasol away from jumping ship and likely signing w/ the Clippers. Everyone that heard his radio interview and watched that season remembers this.

Dude redeemed himself to the tune of a league MVP, which quickly made people forget.

[PsychoBe]

Who said I exposed anything? Its all very well known. We sat here listening to hour long special on the issue...radio interviews...500 post topics....speculation and trade rumors. Reports on Kobe telling season ticket holders he was gone....im not trying to expose a thing....because it all happened too recently and its irrefutable.

The only issue is...people being emotional about it and pretending that not getting a request granted is honestly the same thing as not making one.

Why he asked out is immaterial. And I dont much care that he did.

But it happened. The Bulls not throwing in Deng...does not make Kobe loyal.

It means he was told no.

Being told no...is not the same as not wanting something to begin with.

Not to anyone being rational at least.

no one said it didn't happen, but you have to make sure that you know what you're talking about when you do it since the discussion is more so "how" and less so "why"

kobe didn't make a nationally televised t.v. special about it. the laker front office had failed him and arguably blatantly lied to him about setting him up well in the future when they really had no idea what to do. they had to go and rob another franchise of pau gasol just to ensure a finals appearance that same year.

either way, he asked to leave, nothing came of it, and he's going on 19 seasons with the same team.

that's the end of it.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You need to check your facts. Firstly, Magic Johnson is full of shit and has HIV. He tends to embellish. Dr. Buss would not have traded Kobe. Kobe demanded the trade as a power play to get help. lol @ you watching some interviews and reading some articles then presenting it as fact. Once again, actions speak louder than words.
#LakerFan

[PsychoBe]

:biggums:

smush parker and kwame brown.

[T_L_P]

smush parker and kwame brown.

05-07 the Lakers sucked. But six years would be 05-10. The 08-10 Lakers weren't even close to being one of the worst rosters.

:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

Bolded is the only real key part of your essay.

:confusedshrug:

In your history lesson Kobe was offered the opportunity to leave and passed as he has every other time he had the chance to leave the Lakers.

[sbw19]

Kobe did demand a trade once and probably would've left had the Lakers kept Shaq.

With that said, I doubt he'd have left Miami like LeBron did after winning 2 titles and making the finals 4 straight times. Might have left Cavs sans Decision antic.

Two totally different personas.

[bigkingsfan]

Kobe never rape that girl, he changed his mind after.

[Kblaze8855]

By the way...Jeff himself is one of the few to hear Kobes (at the time) famous "Get a Bulls uniform fellas" quote to some season ticket holders. Here is a bit of the article...by Jeff...put on ISH in 2007:


And, now, InsideHoops.com, breaking this news to the world, presents the entire, short transcript of the audio clip:

Fan: Please tell us youre staying!

Kobe: Huh?

Fan: Please tell us youre staying.

Kobe: Get a Bulls uniform, fellas.

Fan: Are you serious?

Kobe: Yup.

Fan: Really!?!

Kobe: Yup.

Fan: It's not worth it Kobe, you got to stay.

Kobe: Dr. Buss is an idiot.

Fan: That's true, good luck man.

Kobe: Alright, thanks man.

Fan: See ya buddy.

That's it. Short and to the point. And while the "Get a Bulls uniform, fellas" quote has been out for days now, InsideHoops.com is the only media outlet delivering the other key quote, which, again, assuming that this guy that sounds exactly like Kobe Bryant is in fact Kobe Bryant, is: "Dr. Buss is an idiot."


Read more at http://www.insidehoops.com/kobe-bryant-video-062407.shtml#0Vzoc4MoBWsITXFT.99

We had a Laker fan of 30 years and at the time guy with the most posts in ISH history(aabs if anyone remembers him) on here pissed off.

Crazy summer.

I maintain then as now....the Bulls would have been better off trading for Gasol. Gasol was at a position of greater need...and wouldnt leave us as the new version of Tmacs Magic.

Trading for Kobe would have made us a worse team at the time...considering what he would have taken to get.

I wasnt behind it even then. But Laker fans were already talking about Deng/Tyrus/2 first rounders...

It was far too big an ordeal to sweep under the rug.

[SugarHill]

YFM guy has Kobe radar, real talk.

[9erempiree]

Shut it down, Blaze. :pimp:

People talk about LeBron "quitting" and all that noise -- while that is true, fact is Kobe was a few losses and a Pau Gasol away from jumping ship and likely signing w/ the Clippers. Everyone that heard his radio interview and watched that season remembers this.

Dude redeemed himself to the tune of a league MVP, which quickly made people forget.
:facepalm and you don't have your facts straight.

Lakers were 28-16 before Pau came on board.

[SugarHill]

Kobe never rape that girl, he changed his mind after.
:roll:

[PsychoBe]

05-07 the Lakers sucked. But six years would be 05-10. The 08-10 Lakers weren't even close to being one of the worst rosters.

:oldlol:

you could argue that a washed up has-been odom that the heat threw away, a playoff-winless pau gasol, andrew bynum (lol), shannon brown, and an off-his-meds artest would not be a very pleasant roster for any other player that wasn't kobe or a coach that wasn't phil.

kobe and phil deserve all the credit for that team making three straight finals appearances.

[SouBeachTalents]

no one said it didn't happen, but you have to make sure that you know what you're talking about when you do it since the discussion is more so "how" and less so "why"

kobe didn't make a nationally televised t.v. special about it. the laker front office had failed him and arguably blatantly lied to him about setting him up well in the future when they really had no idea what to do. they had to go and rob another franchise of pau gasol just to ensure a finals appearance that same year.

either way, he asked to leave, nothing came of it, and he's going on 19 seasons with the same team.

that's the end of it.

As did the Cavs in LeBron's first Cleveland stint

[BasedTom]

I believe Kobe.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2003/0728_large.jpg
When he sets his mind to something, he's always determined to get it.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

As did the Cavs in LeBron's first Cleveland stint

You mean the #1 seed 66 win Cavs? :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm and you don't have your facts straight.

Lakers were 28-16 before Pau came on board.

Yeah the Lakers were going to make noise in the playoffs without Pau Gasol and Kwame Brown as their starting center.

Oh you Kobe fans.. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

You mean the #1 seed 66 win Cavs? :oldlol:

I mean the Cavs that missed the playoffs 4 years in a row after he left

[Mr. Jabbar]

so proud of kobe :cry:

cant believe the teams kobes been through with the purple & gold.. from kwame and smush to jordan hill as second option. kobe is one of a kind once ina lifetime franchise player :bowdown: :bowdown:

meanwhile, at cleveland..

[9erempiree]

Bolded is the only real key part of your essay.

:confusedshrug:

In your history lesson Kobe was offered the opportunity to leave and passed as he has every other time he had the chance to leave the Lakers.

This.

I like how people try to pass off Kobe wanting to be traded as if he did get traded.

[9erempiree]

Yeah the Lakers were going to make noise in the playoffs without Pau Gasol and Kwame Brown as their starting center.

Oh you Kobe fans.. :oldlol:

:facepalm

Again, you don't know shit and you should stay away from this topic.

Starting center was Bynum.

[SouBeachTalents]

so proud of kobe :cry:

cant believe the teams kobes been through with the purple & gold.. from kwame and smush to jordan hill as second option. kobe is one of a kind once ina lifetime franchise player :bowdown: :bowdown:

meanwhile, at cleveland..

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/teamsites/images/legacy/lakers/ts_110601shaqretires650.jpg

http://dopaminedreams.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lakers-big-3.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I mean the Cavs that missed the playoffs 4 years in a row after he left

:biggums:

The Cavs front office failed Lebron James because they didn't win a lot of games after he left.

Please elaborate..

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kobe never rape that girl, he changed his mind after.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm

Again, you don't know shit and you should stay away from this topic.

Starting center was Bynum.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2008_games.html

Tell me who the starting center was for the Laker season opener.

Take the L, kid. :pimp:

[Mr. Jabbar]

kobe is like a guardian dog that will defend his owners and their property with his own life if necessary. while lebron is like that dog for kids who is harmless but would abandon his home no hesitation if the neighbor gave him better food

[SugarHill]

kobe is like a guardian dog that will defend his owners and their property with his own life if necessary. while lebron is like that dog for kids who is harmless but would abandon his home no hesitation if the neighbor gave him better food

Kobe is also that dog you can't leave your kids around because it starts humping shit

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe is also that dog you can't leave your kids around because it starts humping shit

not bad :applause:

[9erempiree]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2008_games.html

Tell me who the starting center was for the Laker season opener.

Take the L, kid. :pimp:
:facepalm

What are you trying to argue about? :wtf:

What does season opener starter have to do with a "28-16 before Pau" and "not going anywhere with Kwame?"

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This.

I like how people try to pass off Kobe wanting to be traded as if he did get traded.

Kobe "stans" tend to focus on what actually happened. The rings, the 18 years with the same team, the dismissal of all criminal charges, the all star appearances, the all nba teams, the all defensive team awards etc..

Kobe "haters" tend to focus on their imagination and what they hope to be true.

[guy]

tell the whole story.

why aren't you exposing the fact that the lakers front office blatantly lied to him when telling him that they were going to put him in the best position to win since they believed in their infinite wisdom that shaq was done and they didn't want to pay him but instead gave him kwame brown and smush parker and he was stuck with one of the worst rosters in the west for almost six years?

you exposed nothing. in the end they made the moves to get pau gasol to attempt to appease him and got phil back and the rest was history.

Six years? How about three years. Maybe you shouldn't tell someone to "tell the whole story" when you don't even know the simplest facts of it. The front office told him they'll put him in the best position to win. What was he supposed to expect, for that to happen the next day? It took them three years to rebuild after being a contender for the previous eight years. Only a spoiled player like Kobe would think that wasn't reasonable.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm

What are you trying to argue about? :wtf:

What does season opener starter have to do with a "28-16 before Pau" and "not going anywhere with Kwame?"

You claimed Kwame wasn't a starter. I disproved that claim.

Does this anger you? lol.

[T_L_P]

you could argue that a washed up has-been odom that the heat threw away, a playoff-winless pau gasol, andrew bynum (lol), shannon brown, and an off-his-meds artest would not be a very pleasant roster for any other player that wasn't kobe or a coach that wasn't phil.

kobe and phil deserve all the credit for that team making three straight finals appearances.

Pau averaged 20/11/4. He was a superstar in 09 and 10. The **** does his Memphis resume have to do with anything? Odom averaged 12/10/3 on 50% shooting. Pretty good for a washed up player, no? Ariza and Odom were two of the best wing defenders in the league. Bynum was always injured in the Playoffs and I thought he was overrated.

So you have the best coach ever, a 20/10 guy on great efficiency and good defense (until he complained about being the number one option on offense after the b2b), a solid 3rd option (that third option was better offensively than anyone Duncan had in 03, and I don't have the gall to call that roster one of the worst in the West), and some great defenders (in different years, granted, who both averaged over 10 PPG). Add the GOAT offensive system and some clutch role players, and I'd say it's closer to being one of the 5 best rosters in the league and opposed to one of the worst.

Which teams in those years had a second superstar anyway? The only team that had two All-NBAers in 09 and 10 were the Lakers. The Spurs had two in 09.

[BigBoss]

By the way...Jeff himself is one of the few to hear Kobes (at the time) famous "Get a Bulls uniform fellas" quote to some season ticket holders. Here is a bit of the article...by Jeff...put on ISH in 2007:




Read more at http://www.insidehoops.com/kobe-bryant-video-062407.shtml#0Vzoc4MoBWsITXFT.99

We had a Laker fan of 30 years and at the time guy with the most posts in ISH history(aabs if anyone remembers him) on here pissed off.

Crazy summer.

I maintain then as now....the Bulls would have been better off trading for Gasol. Gasol was at a position of greater need...and wouldnt leave us as the new version of Tmacs Magic.

Trading for Kobe would have made us a worse team at the time...considering what he would have taken to get.

I wasnt behind it even then. But Laker fans were already talking about Deng/Tyrus/2 first rounders...

It was far too big an ordeal to sweep under the rug.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/53698303.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Bolded is the only real key part of your essay.

:confusedshrug:

In your history lesson Kobe was offered the opportunity to leave and passed as he has every other time he had the chance to leave the Lakers.

The agreed upon deal was not to a team of Kobes choosing. No trade clause...he can only go...where he approves. He asked to go...the deal was not completed...to go where he wanted. He had 2 more years on his deal before an opt out...so he couldnt just leave right then.

He was literally telling his fans to go get his Bulls jersey and people still act like he didnt intend to go....

I want a rational fan to explain something to me. I know ISH is mostly jokes...and some of you I know to ignore in advance.

But im hoping someone reasonable will give me their opinion even if I dont agree.

Give me the philosophical difference between two people who make the same request...but only one gets what he asks for.

Player A...and B....neither is a free agent or approaching it. Both demand to be traded. Go to the media bashing ownership, teammates, and the managers.

Each tells his fans to buy the jersey of the team he wants to go to.

A has a no trade clause. B does not.

Player B is traded when a reasonable deal is found.

Player A is not traded because the deal his team wants cant be found on a team he agrees to play for.

Being under contract and having no real choice except to go to another place he doesnt want to be...or stay where he is....

Player A stays.

What is the difference...regarding their loyalty?

Wiil one person attempt to make a rational case...for how making a request to go to a team....and being told no that wont work....is the same as not asking to begin with from a loyalty standpoint?

Can someone skip the emoticons, BS, and general internet nonsense....and explain that to me?

Explain how a denied request is the same as not asking to begin with...and if possible an example from any other situation in human history...where a man asks for something...then gets credit for not getting it.

I'll check back tomorrow.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Pau averaged 20/11/4. He was a superstar.

oof

Pau's trade market value was a couple first rounders and Kwame Brown.

[GimmeThat]

Cavs hadn't sold enough jersey to even be called a franchise

Kobe hadn't done anything to warrant a top five pick before his pro debut,
some could even argue even 3 years into his season.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The agreed upon deal was not to a team of Kobes choosing. No trade clause...he can only go...where he approves. He asked to go...the deal was not completed...to go where he wanted. He had 2 more years on his deal before an opt out...so he couldnt just leave right then.

He was literally telling his fans to go get his Bulls jersey and people still act like he didnt intend to go....

I want a rational fan to explain something to me. I know ISH is mostly jokes...and some of you I know to ignore in advance.

But im hoping someone reasonable will give me their opinion even if I dont agree.

Give me the philosophical difference between two people who make the same request...but only one gets what he asks for.

Player A...and B....neither is a free agent or approaching it. Both demand to be traded. Go to the media bashing ownership, teammates, and the managers.

Each tells his fans to buy the jersey of the team he wants to go to.

A has a no trade clause. B does not.

Player B is traded when a reasonable deal is found.

Player A is not traded because the deal his team wants cant be found on a team he agrees to play for.

Being under contract and having no real choice except to go to another place he doesnt want to be...or stay where he is....

Player A stays.

What is the difference...regarding their loyalty?

Wiil one person attempt to make a rational case...for how making a request to go to a team....and being told no that wont work....is the same as not asking to begin with from a loyalty standpoint?

Can someone skip the emoticons, BS, and general internet nonsense....and explain that to me.

Explain how a denied request is the same as not asking to begin with...and if possible an example from any other situation in human history...where a man asks for something...then gets credit for not getting it.

I'll check back tomorrow.

If you and your girlfriend get in a fight and you tell her you are going to leave her for the next Victoria's secret model that looks your way are you disloyal when you turn down your average looking thirsty coworker instead?

Kobe's trade demand to be traded to the Bulls without them giving up Deng was as unrealistic as you popping off about a model. It was never going to happen.

[9erempiree]

You claimed Kwame wasn't a starter. I disproved that claim.

Does this anger you? lol.

:facepalm

So you claim Kwame is the starting center because he started the season opener?:lol

[Heavincent]

Pau averaged 20/11/4. He was a superstar in 09 and 10.

You have a pretty loose definition of superstar.

[PsychoBe]

Pau averaged 20/11/4. He was a superstar in 09 and 10. The **** does his Memphis resume have to do with anything? Odom averaged 12/10/3 on 50% shooting. Pretty good for a washed up player, no? Ariza and Odom were two of the best wing defenders in the league. Bynum was always injured in the Playoffs and I thought he was overrated.

So you have the best coach ever, a 20/10 guy on great efficiency and good defense (until he complained about being the number one option on offense after the b2b), a solid 3rd option (that third option was better offensively than anyone Duncan had in 03, and I don't have the gall to call that roster one of the worst in the West), and some great defenders (in different years, granted, who both averaged over 10 PPG). Add the GOAT offensive system and some clutch role players, and I'd say it's closer to being one of the 5 best rosters in the league and opposed to one of the worst.

Which teams in those years had a second superstar anyway? The only team that had two All-NBAers in 09 and 10 were the Lakers. The Spurs had two in 09.

pau was literally yelled at and berated by phil for being "soft" and his numbers were the result of the system, same for odom. in an equal-opportunity offense everyone has just that, an equal opportunity to score. it's just a manner of taking advantage of your chances or not, and pau was able to take advantage of his as was odom, especially since everyone loved to double-team kobe.

pau probably salivated once he saw how wide open he was when he saw his defender sprint off of him to attempt to trap kobe :oldlol:

also duncan's roster in 03' was pretty abysmal on paper but with the right coach it worked, since during those days pop made his wing players play through duncan and the post and they had very limited and specific spots on the floor offensively so they don't try to do too much. it was something steve smith complained about but knew he had to understand.

[BigBoss]

Give me the philosophical difference between two people who make the same request...but only one gets what he asks for.



Firstly, Kobe and Lebron's situation is different. You're trying real hard to push an agenda that you aren't looking at this objectively.

Lebron never requested to be traded. He simply got up and left the first opportunity he got.

Kobe played on a team that didn't make the playoffs, then averaged 35 and 31 in the next 2 seasons just to keep them competitive. After Colorado and the media going after him hard with the Shaq breakup he was burning out. The request to be traded and the subsequent comments to fans are comments by someone who was stressed and under pressure. Have you ever made comments that you didn't mean when you were under pressure? This is his career and brand.

At the end of the day Dr. Buss would not have traded Kobe. He got him help through Pau Gasol. You're telling me Dr. B would have ok'd a trade of Kobe Bryant mid-season without doing his due diligence first? That would have been such a terrible business decision by a billionaire. lol @ you thinking Luol Deng is the reason Kobe wasn't traded. Kobe would have never waived his no trade clause, Dr B. would have never ok'd the trade. It was a game of chicken and Kobe won, and by extension so did the Lakers.

[iamgine]

Please don't give me that BS that he demanded a trade.

It's not BS. Kobe did demand a trade when Lakers were going through tough times. Now that he's old and no one wants his poison contract, the tune change.

[Kblaze8855]

Player B wasnt Lebron. I was actually thinking Charles Barkley in philly. Lebron was a FA. The situations arent terribly similar. I suppose everything becomes Kobe/Lebron the last few years but I hoped the trade request would have made it obvious it wasnt a FA situation.

Charles and Kobe did pretty much the same thing....they just didnt have camera phones in 1991 to catch Chuck talking crazy to fans about it.

[PsychoBe]

It's not BS. Kobe did demand a trade when Lakers were going through tough times. Now that he's old and no one wants his poison contract, the tune change.

you're a notorious kobe hater who refuses to look at him objectively or get your facts straight before posting.

mods????????

[SouBeachTalents]

you're a notorious kobe hater who refuses to look at him objectively or get your facts straight before posting.

mods????????

Lol, I'm sure you're objective when it comes to Kobe

[PsychoBe]

Lol, I'm sure you're objective when it comes to Kobe

i've never said his name in vain.

[BigBoss]

It's not BS. Kobe did demand a trade when Lakers were going through tough times. Now that he's old and no one wants his poison contract, the tune change.

Read my last post in regard to the "trade" demand.

And everyone would want his poison contract. His 24 million contract is pennies to the boost he'll bring to your franchise.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Player B wasnt Lebron. I was actually thinking Charles Barkley in philly. Lebron was a FA. The situations arent terribly similar. I suppose everything becomes Kobe/Lebron the last few years but I hoped the trade request would have made it obvious it wasnt a FA situation.

Charles and Kobe did pretty much the same thing....they just didnt have camera phones in 1991 to catch Chuck talking crazy to fans about it.

Do you think Kobe being traded to the Bulls without including Deng was realistic?

Do you really think Kobe actually believed it was?

[BigBoss]

Player B wasnt Lebron. I was actually thinking Charles Barkley in philly. Lebron was a FA. The situations arent terribly similar. I suppose everything becomes Kobe/Lebron the last few years but I hoped the trade request would have made it obvious it wasnt a FA situation.

Charles and Kobe did pretty much the same thing....they just didnt have camera phones in 1991 to catch Chuck talking crazy to fans about it.

No it's Kobe and Lebron because that's whats stated in the OP.

Ok next time say that clearly.

You're back pedaling and ignored my last post and the points I made about it being a power play. Theres more politics in professional sports then people think.

[BigBoss]

Do you think Kobe being traded to the Bulls without including Deng was realistic?

Do you really think Kobe actually believed it was?

Don't waste your time. He's ignorant.

[iamgine]

Kobe played on a team that didn't make the playoffs, then averaged 35 and 31 in the next 2 seasons just to keep them competitive. After Colorado and the media going after him hard with the Shaq breakup he was burning out. The request to be traded and the subsequent comments to fans are comments by someone who was stressed and under pressure. Have you ever made comments that you didn't mean when you were under pressure?
Oh you're saying Kobe crumbled under pressure and therefore wasn't able to fight through the tough times.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:facepalm

So you claim Kwame is the starting center because he started the season opener?:lol

Do I need to correct you again? :no:

Lets recap:

You claimed Kwame wasn't a starter, whereas I said the Lakers center, Kwame, wasn't going to do anything in the postseason.

FYI, Kwame was the Lakers starting center longer than just opening day.

[T_L_P]

You have a pretty loose definition of superstar.

Advanced stats need to be weighed with the raw numbers and eye test, but...

4th in Regular Season Win Shares in 2009 (behind LeBron, Paul and Wade)
7th in Regular Season Win Shares in 2010 (missing 17 games)
1st in Playoff Win Shares in 2010 (by a large margin).
19/10/3/2 RS averaged on 55% shooting
19/11/3/2 Playoff averages on 56% shooting

If 09-10 Pau wasn't a superstar, Manu or Parker never were -- which, of course, is false.

[BasedTom]

Read my last post in regard to the "trade" demand.

And everyone would want his poison contract. His 24 million contract is pennies to the boost he'll bring to your franchise.
Because Jordan's tenure on the Wizards really boosted the prestige of that team

[Kblaze8855]

What Kobe believed is not something I have access to. I know what he said...I know what Laker officials said. Am I to lend you more credibility on Laker issues than a part owner with an office down the hall from the GM and a 30 year relationship with the principal owner?

Im not pretending I can see into souls. I can read. I can hear. Im not gonna tell you Kobes mental state or what his plans were. We have the same information....you seem to kinda want to bend it to being what you want it to be. The things im saying are just....public record.

You fall back on "But did it happen?" as if it has any relevance to an issue of intent and character. Kobe had no power to make anything happen mid contract. All he can do...all we can judge his intentions by....is asking. And the manner he did it...which many laker fans found disgraceful.

Me personally...I never thought players asking out should be all that hated on. Teams use them. Trades without notice...draft them to places they know the player doesnt want to go. Its a business. Neither side owes the other much of anything.

Kobe asking out doesnt make him a bad person.

But it does eliminate him from a discussion on guys who remain loyal when it gets tough.

Not that it much matters. The Lakers are loyal to the money Kobe generates. They dont care about him any more than most teams care about their stars.

Hes given them more than they can ever give back.

[Kblaze8855]

No it's Kobe and Lebron because that's whats stated in the OP.

Ok next time say that clearly.

You're back pedaling and ignored my last post and the points I made about it being a power play. Theres more politics in professional sports then people think.

You have made no point that requires "back pedaling". You are doing what a number of people do when you cant explain a situation with the things you know....assuming you know more than you possibly could to make the answer what you want it to be.

I dont believe you have any special insight into Kobe and therefore didnt find your claims about his secret motives interesting. I read it....but didnt want to do a whole...thing...on what you think...or I think...Kobe thought.

It just wouldnt get us anywhere.

[Heavincent]

Advanced stats need to be weighed with the raw numbers and eye test, but...

4th in Regular Season Win Shares in 2009 (behind LeBron, Paul and Wade)
7th in Regular Season Win Shares in 2010 (missing 17 games)
1st in Playoff Win Shares in 2010 (by a large margin).
19/10/3/2 RS averaged on 55% shooting
19/11/3/2 Playoff averages on 56% shooting

If 09-10 Pau wasn't a superstar, Manu or Parker never were -- which, of course, is false.

Are you implying that Pau was on the level of Kobe, Wade, and Lebron? Those were superstars.

And I don't believe Manu or Parker were ever superstars.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What Kobe believed is not something I have access to. I know what he said...I know what Laker officials said. Am I to lend you more credibility on Laker issues than a part owner with an office down the hall from the GM and a 30 year relationship with the principal owner?

Im not pretending I can see into souls. I can read. I can hear. Im not gonna tell you Kobes mental state or what his plans were. We have the same information....you seem to kinda want to bend it to being what you want it to be. The things im saying are just....public record.

You fall back on "But did it happen?" as if it has any relevance to an issue of intent and character. Kobe had no power to make anything happen mid contract. All he can do...all we can judge his intentions by....is asking. And the manner he did it...which many laker fans found disgraceful.

Me personally...I never thought players asking out should be all that hated on. Teams use them. Trades without notice...draft them to places they know the player doesnt want to go. Its a business. Neither side owes the other much of anything.

Kobe asking out doesnt make him a bad person.

But it does eliminate him from a discussion on guys who remain loyal when it gets tough.

Not that it much matters. The Lakers are loyal to the money Kobe generates. They dont care about him any more than most teams care about their stars.

Hes given them more than they can ever give back.

:roll:

I'm not asking you to read souls. Im asking for an opinion based on everything you know about Kobe's ego, intelligence, and knowledge of NBA history.

Do you believe Kobe Bryant thought he could be traded to the Bulls without including Luol Deng?

[T_L_P]

Are you implying that Pau was on the level of Kobe, Wade, and Lebron? Those were superstars.

And I don't believe Manu or Parker were ever superstars.

09-10 LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dirk and Paul were the best players in the league, the megastars; Dwight was right behind them.

Pau, Durant, Melo, Duncan and Amare were superstars (along with some others). :confusedshrug:

But if you don't think Manu or Parker were ever superstars, I get what you're saying. We just have different definitions. :cheers:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Being spoiled since his rookie season with great talent, and after only enduring 2 seasons of poor talent on his rosters ...

Kobe wanted to be a Bull in summer '07. He wanted to play on "Mars" or anywhere other than LA-LA land.

His stans of course vehemently deny this all the time. Management couldn't get the deal done to Chicago, so it forced Kobe to stay put. SMH @ stans defending the summer long sports radio tantrums as being tactical. Mental gymnastics.

Oh yea, if Shaq was still a Laker for the 2005 season, Kobe said it was probable he'd sign with the Clippers, or Bulls. Once again willing to shed the purple and gold at a moments notice to suit his agenda.

[sportjames23]

Kobe never rape that girl, he changed his mind after.


:oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Im sure he knew he could....issue is....who decided in the end....the Bulls or him? Magic seemed to suggest Chicago didnt want to include Deng. Ive heard rumors that Kobe wanted to play with Deng who had just murdered the Heat in the playoffs. I find reports with a source I know...live on tv...who knows all parties...more reliable than most rumor.

Kobe asked to go, hated on his team, teammates, and owners in public....told people he was going to the Bulls...I have a part owner saying they tried to send him to the Bulls.....read a dozen reports from Bulls and Laker sources backing it up.

Why would a person evaluating the facts set that aside in favor of fan theory on everyones secret motivations?

I dont tend to look for the truth in the opinions of the fans of the people in question. And if I did it would be because a fan would know a players on the court game better than I might.

I sure as hell dont do it for matters of back room dealings and how they make that fans favorite player look to others.

We all have the same information. Your speculation is of little value to me...as I suspect mine is to you.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Im sure he knew he could....issue is....who decided in the end....the Bulls or him? Magic seemed to suggest Chicago didnt want to include Deng. Ive heard rumors that Kobe wanted to play with Deng who had just murdered the Heat in the playoffs. I find reports with a source I know...live on tv...who knows all parties...more reliable than most rumor.

Kobe asked to go, hated on his team, teammates, and owners in public....told people he was going to the Bulls...I have a part owner saying they tried to send him to the Bulls.....read a dozen reports from Bulls and Laker sources backing it up.

Why would a person evaluating the facts set that aside in favor of fan theory on everyones secret motivations?

I dont tend to look for the truth in the opinions of the fans of the people in question. And if I did it would be because a fan would know a players on the court game better than I might.

I sure as hell dont do it for matters of back room dealings and how they make that fans favorite player look to others.

We all have the same information. Your speculation is of little value to me...as I suspect mine is to you.

Its a simple yes or no question.

Do you think prime Kobe Bryant with two years left on his contract and no actual leverage whatsoever actually thought he was going to force the Lakers to trade him to a the Bulls for Tyrus Thomas and some other garbage?

[JT123]

Kobe stans embarrassing themselves, as per usual. :oldlol:

[NZStreetBaller]

Woah this is creepy I tell yah a story.

Me and my gf a few years back started having problems started fighting and shit. And I was over it. So concurrently I had met through my mates this girl who was wicked super hot super sexy and had rich parents and was completely into me.

At the time I told my friends that I was going to leave my girl cause she pished me off and go with this new amazing girl. But before I broke it off with my girl I asked this new girl if she wud be keen to be with me.

She said no. I was shocked. She said that I had too much baggage abd that she didnt want to be a home wrecker so I ended up staying with my girl and thought to myself. You know what it may be hard with her but atleast I know she'd never give up on me. And through time and effort my loyalty grew and remained.

When I think back to the situation anx wonder what I would do had she said yes I always feel like it wouldn't have mattered I still wudve found my way back.

My point is. Sometimes you have to leave what your loyal to or face temptation to really find out if your loyal or not.

Bottom line I believe both players have an equal loyalty for their teams and their desire to win. The difference is one got denied the trade. And the other did not

Another difference was lebrons timing.... heat got worse cavs got better. Then he moves.

[dubeta]

Kobe is a FRAUD and ppl here are too gullible to see it


Of course once Kobe says in 2010-2011 "I'm a Laker for life" he's not going to change his word and leave because he'll look like an idiot.

If he was in this situation before saying "Laker for life" he would have colluded his way out a long time ago, like what he wanted to do in 2007

Too bad Kobe didn't forsee Daddy Jerry Buss not staying around for ever and thus being in mediocrity like he is in now.

LeBron - Plays out his contract and stays loyal to the team.


Kobe - throws his teammates under the bus and demands a trade at the first instance of failure.

[Magic 32]

Kobe - throws his teammates under the bus and demands a trade at the first instance of failure.

Kobe's first instance of failure = wasting 3 peak years.

Lebron's first instance of failure = wasting 3 finals games.

[Cocaine80s]

These hoes aint loyal


Thats why im a LeGod fan becuase he realized his mistake and came back home :bowdown:

[JT123]

Another difference was lebrons timing.... heat got worse cavs got better. Then he moves.
:biggums: Winning 33 games in the weakest conference of all time is what you call getting better? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Kobe stans are too funny.

[funnystuff]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.
:lebronamazed:

[RoseCity07]

"Ship his ass out"

[Dragonyeuw]

He probably also realizes that at 36, he's not in a position to realistically land on a contender. Nobody is going to trade a younger star for a few years left of Kobe coming off major injuries, and the Lakers aren't going to trade him for scrubs with zero box office appeal as he still draws.

At his point, he's going to stay put and pursue the alltime scoring mark until his body one days says 'no mas'.

[Mr Feeny]

He probably also realizes that at 36, he's not in a position to realistically land on a contender. Nobody is going to trade a younger star for a few years left of Kobe coming off major injuries, and the Lakers aren't going to trade him for scrubs with zero box office appeal as he still draws.

At his point, he's going to stay put and pursue the alltime scoring mark until his body one days says 'no mas'.

Fair enough but that isn't the discussion. It's about loyalty. OP wasn't watching basketball in 2007 when Kobe threw a tantrum and asked to be traded (like most said, preferably to Chicago )

[Crose]

what is all the fuss about?

so kobe asked for a trade and almost left. big deal.

but he didnt leave. lebron actually left and screwed his old team. kobe threw a fit but in the end he stayed. so he may not be the most loyal but he is far more loyal than lebron.

end of story

[Mr Feeny]

what is all the fuss about?

so kobe asked for a trade and almost left. big deal.

but he didnt leave. lebron actually left and screwed his old team. kobe threw a fit but in the end he stayed. so he may not be the most loyal but he is far more loyal than lebron.

end of story

Didn't leave because. .........Paxton gave the deal the red light.

[Dragonyeuw]

Fair enough but that isn't the discussion. It's about loyalty. OP wasn't watching basketball in 2007 when Kobe threw a tantrum and asked to be traded (like most said, preferably to Chicago )

I know what the discussion is about. And I'm saying, that its much easier to sit there now and say 'I'm not going anywhere' and play the loyalty card when there's probably few places to go at this point( that would better his current situation). I'm sure Kobe realizes that.

[Crose]

Didn't leave because. .........Paxton gave the deal the red light.
so in the end...

kobe has been a laker for life

and lebron stabbed his team in the heart, left to go play with buddies, and then ran back home when things were not looking so bright in his new team. and in the process played it off like he cared for his old team when he really just wanted better teammates, which he got.

glad we agree

[ImKobe]

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

Kobe demanded a trade, but he never left. Some could say that Kobe being fed up with the Lakers made the FO get Pau Gasol in that trade.


It's one thing to come out and say you're fed up and want to go, it's another thing not to say anything at all other than promising to bring your home town a championship, only to come out with the truth on national TV...

Kobe stayed loyal to the Lakers since his rookie season. He's already had to endure the bad during his prime...now there's another challenge for him to play through this miserable season in hopes that the FO can reshape this roster as quick as possible.

What Kobe's doing right now is being loyal. He didn't have to come out and say he's not leaving and that he's a Laker, but he did. :applause:

[STATUTORY]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

:facepalm

Bran fans always sticking to hypotheticals

Kobe fans always talking about facts

Bran left, Kobe stayed. Thats reality

[Knoe Itawl]

All that really needs to be said is, can you imagine if it was LeBron in the exact same scenario, would these idiot stans being saying "Oh, he didn't really mean it" and dismissing everything? Of course not.

That tells you everything you need to know about the pathetic Bryant stan mindsate.

[PJR]

I don't care for Kobe, but he did atleast resign with the Lakers as an unrestricted free agent in 2004, after the Lakers got blasted in the Finals by the Pistons, as they were in clear rebuild mode after the Shaq trade and Phil took a year off. Now he later would demand a trade when it wasn't starting out too hot, so he's certainly not the benchmark for true competitiveness and sticking thru the tough times, but when it comes to comparing him with LeBron? Given all the evidence we have now? I'll give that one to Kobe.

LeBron has proven to be a mercenary opportunist. Bailed on his 60 win Cavs team when he couldnt get them over the hump. And he bailed on a Heat core that went to 4 straight NBA Finals as soon as adversity hit for more power, better PR, and a newer, and fresher "Big Three" core in Cleveland when the opportunity presented itself.

Let's just say, when it comes to sticking thru it no matter what, neither of these guys come to mind.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

All that really needs to be said is, can you imagine if it was LeBron in the exact same scenario, would these idiot stans being saying "Oh, he didn't really mean it" and dismissing everything? Of course not.

That tells you everything you need to know about the pathetic Bryant stan mindsate.

No because "Stans" judge Lebron on what he actually does not his quotes in ghost written articles.

Kobe had no intention to leave. He "demanded" an impossible trade to only one team and for pennies on the dollar and to the shock to absolutely no one (aside from kblaze apparently) the Lakers didn't trade him.

Did he come back to the Lakers pissed off and half ass it for the 08 season like we would expect any player would who no longer wanted to play for the team? Or did come back and have an MVP season? I don't recall.

[Mr Feeny]

No because "Stans" judge Lebron on what he actually does not his quotes in ghost written articles.

Kobe had no intention to leave. He "demanded" an impossible trade to only one team and for pennies on the dollar and to the shock to absolutely no one (aside from kblaze apparently) the Lakers didn't trade him.

Did he come back to the Lakers pissed off and half ass it for the 08 season like we would expect any player would who no longer wanted to play for the team? Or did come back and have an MVP season? I don't recall.

Kobe demanded a trade which means he intended to leave. He wasn't allowed to leave. Did not materialise.
End of discussion. Kobe doesn't knw the first thing about loyalty.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kobe demanded a trade which means he intended to leave. He wasn't allowed to leave. Did not materialise.
End of discussion. Kobe doesn't knw the first thing about loyalty.

Who didn't allow Kobe to leave? A deal was worked out that Kobe vetoed with Detroit.

[AirTupac]

Kobe demanded a trade which means he intended to leave. He wasn't allowed to leave. Did not materialise.
End of discussion. Kobe doesn't knw the first thing about loyalty.


In the league for how many years under 1 team? Idiot :oldlol:

[AirFederer]

Lol, strong ether in this thread.

This is also telling of Kobes character...

[QUOTE]Curt Schilling's quote:

[Mr Feeny]

Who didn't allow Kobe to leave? A deal was worked out that Kobe vetoed with Detroit.

John Paxon, who didn't want to part with Deng. Of course you weren't watching back then so this is news to you. Probably same reason you seemed shook when kblaze mentioned it.:rockon:

[Nash]

wait, didn't kobe just a year or two ago said that he was actually serious about his trade demand?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lol, strong ether in this thread.

This is also telling of Kobes character...

Solid source.

Broke and desperate Boston Redsox hasbeen who probably doesn't even like basketball running his mouth on a Boston sports radio station after Kobe rang five on the Celtics.

:applause:

[Mr Feeny]

wait, didn't kobe just a year or two ago said that he was actually serious about his trade demand?

Is there actually such a thing as an un-serious trade demand? Those kobe kids are a special breed:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

John Paxon, who didn't want to part with Deng. Of course you weren't watching back then so this is news to you. Probably same reason you seemed shook when kblaze mentioned it.:rockon:

There are 30 other teams in the league. :facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

Solid source.

Broke and desperate Boston Redsox hasbeen who probably doesn't even like basketball running his mouth on a Boston sports radio station after Kobe rang five on the Celtics.

:applause:

We can all pretty much see the same thing with our eyes, every game tbf:applause:
And yes, it's a solid source. Glad to see athletes call out Kobe for his poor leadership :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

There are 30 other teams in the league. :facepalm

Who cares?
Anyways. ...

"At this point I'll go play on Pluto"

KEEP UR 30 TEAMS:roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Who cares?
Anyways. ...

"At this point I'll go play on Pluto"

KEEP UR 30 TEAMS:roll:

And yet when offered the opportunity to join the Pistons what happened????

[Mr Feeny]

And yet when offered the opportunity to join the Pistons what happened????

Conditions weren't as good as his ideal situation with his Chicago would have been:lol
"At this point I'll go play on Pluto"

Cry me a river and keep up the delusion. That's directly from the horse's mouth:cheers:

[IMObjective]

And yet when offered the opportunity to join the Pistons what happened????
He decided to stay :rockon:

[STATUTORY]

Lol, strong ether in this thread.

This is also telling of Kobes character...
Curt Schilling is a bankrupt bum who spent his life savings on a trash version of Runescape

[chazzy]

"It was really tough to land those free agents just because of the opportunities that they had," Bryant said. "You got 'Melo going back to New York, LeBron going back home to Cleveland. The odds just weren't in our favor. But I took comfort in the fact that the Lakers did absolutely everything possible to make it happen. Absolutely everything possible.
"We offered Pau an incredible deal. I saw them put the work in. It's much different than in 2007 when I felt like they were just sitting on their hands. This is not that case. They were going after it and being aggressive. I will fight for that till the end. They tried, tried and tried and it didn't work out. I stand behind them 110 percent. I bleed purple and gold."
115 posts and no one posted the full quote. He addressed 2007. Biggest difference is that even though both rosters were terrible, he felt that the Lakers at that time weren't even trying to build a contender.

[SexSymbol]

Kobe is also that dog you can't leave your kids around because it starts humping shit
underrated joke

[f0und]

more like he's just glad the lakers are dumb enough to give him that ridiculous contract.

there is no fighting "through" the tough times. "through" would imply that theres eventually an end. no kobe, you'll be fighting in these tough times until you're retired.

[rezznor]

Wow... Kobe might just be the most loyal player of all time. Mad respect.
dirk and duncan say hi

[kurple]

well. kobe got to decide what team drafted him. he cant complain

[Nevaeh]

dirk and duncan say hi

Russell, Reggie Miller and John Stockton say "what up?" also.

[lilteapot]

Of course Kobe wants to fight through these tough times, or in other words he wants to score as much as possible. he doesn't care about this season, because he knows he isn't making the playoffs. it's pretty clear he only cares about getting his and moving up that scoring list and passing MJ. Kobe is a realist, he has this killer will and everything but he knows full well that this team is trash.

[edrick]

So, you're saying a dude that is over paid wants to "fight through the tough times" As if ANY team would take Kobe with that BS contract?

[STATUTORY]

So, you're saying a dude that is over paid wants to "fight through the tough times" As if ANY team would take Kobe with that BS contract?
Mavs, nets, knicks, etc are all interested in Kobe :confusedshrug:

[Mr. Jabbar]

it drives kobe haters rlly mad that he is loyal to the lakers, reaching 4 anything they can not to have nightmares over kobe retiring a laker and growing his legend even more :lol

[Mr Feeny]

115 posts and no one posted the full quote. He addressed 2007. Biggest difference is that even though both rosters were terrible, he felt that the Lakers at that time weren't even trying to build a contender.

And who cares how he...err....felt exactly?
Point is he threw a tantrum and demanded a trade.
Tis all:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Russell, Reggie Miller and John Stockton say "what up?" also.

Absolutely. Definitely Duncan and Dirk though. They not only stayed with their teams no matter what, but also took paycut to help their respective teams:applause:

That's loyalty:bowdown:

[dubeta]

Remember, for all this talk between LeBron and Kobe, they are the exact same when it comes to teams they were a part of. Exact same


LeBron - 2

Cavaliers

Heat




Kobe - 2

Hornets

Lakers


Both have been a part of 2 teams, so what are people arguing about?

[Demitri98]

The problem with this is he has a very, very small window to win one more championship, and this team isn't going to go anywhere for the next couple years unless they make a gigantic splash in FA. Fighting through the tough times may sound good, but by the time he's done that his career is over. He just doesn't have time to fight through the tough times. He needs to win NOW.

[Mr Feeny]

The problem with this is he has a very, very small window to win one more championship, and this team isn't going to go anywhere for the next couple years unless they make a gigantic splash in FA. Fighting through the tough times may sound good, but by the time he's done that his career is over. He just doesn't have time to fight through the tough times. He needs to win NOW.

You are absolutely correct but I don't think he cares as much about winning at this point, as he does about climbing he scoring list. Or else he wouldn't have taken 24 m a year. He's not an idiot and knew EXACTLY what he as getting himself into.

[AlphaWolf24]

Absolutely. Definitely Duncan and Dirk though. They not only stayed with their teams no matter what, but also took paycut to help their respective teams:applause:

That's loyalty:bowdown:

Dirk has already said he would have left Dallas ( prolly joined KObe in L.A.) if they didn't win in 11'



"The only reason I would leave -- or would have left -- is if we wouldn't have won the championship, and I would have been like a Karl Malone and [Gary] Payton going to join Kobe and Shaq in L.A.

[russwest0]

Watching LeBron stans cling to trade rumors to try and discredit the Mamba is funny as f*ck. :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Dirk has already said he would have left Dallas ( prolly joined KObe in L.A.) if they didn't win in 11'

In other words my point is exactly correct:

Both Dirk and Kobe wanted to leave but ended up staying (Dirk by choice, Kobe because his dream move to Chicago was blocked )

AND

Dirk took a large paycut to help his franchise in a huge sign of loyalty while Kobe did what Kobe does and made sure he was the highest paid player in the league :applause:

[Hey Yo]

Firstly, Magic Johnson is full of shit and has HIV. He tends to embellish

But Kobe fan will use this in an argument


"Even Magic said Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time"

[dubeta]

Watching LeBron stans cling to trade rumors to try and discredit the Mamba is funny as f*ck. :lol


Trade rumors or actual quotes, with direct confirmation from the Lakers GM and Kobe himself? :rolleyes: :facepalm

[SwayDizzle]

Who said I exposed anything? Its all very well known. We sat here listening to hour long special on the issue...radio interviews...500 post topics....speculation and trade rumors. Reports on Kobe telling season ticket holders he was gone....im not trying to expose a thing....because it all happened too recently and its irrefutable.

The only issue is...people being emotional about it and pretending that not getting a request granted is honestly the same thing as not making one.

Why he asked out is immaterial. And I dont much care that he did.

But it happened. The Bulls not throwing in Deng...does not make Kobe loyal.

It means he was told no.

Being told no...is not the same as not wanting something to begin with.

Not to anyone being rational at least.
people get frustrated and voice their desire to quit their job on a regular basis. it's actions that speak louder than words. you can't tell me that a man who stayed 19 years with a company isn't loyal, because at some point during his career he wanted out.

[Magic 32]

Trade rumors or actual quotes, with direct confirmation from the Lakers GM and Kobe himself? :rolleyes: :facepalm

I really think that you're spreading yourself too thinly dubeta.

I think the quality of your trolling is suffering because of the sheer number of posts you are producing.

Less is more please.

[hiphopfan777]

Y'all hating on lebron because he is black.

[oti]

True Alpha, sticks to his team through tough times !

Let's see how LeBron does when his team fails in the playoffs ... oh wait ... we saw that twice

[Mr Feeny]

people get frustrated and voice their desire to quit their job on a regular basis. it's actions that speak louder than words. you can't tell me that a man who stayed 19 years with a company isn't loyal, because at some point during his career he wanted out.

That's actually precisely right. He isn't loyal bc he DID want out and demanded a trade which never materialised for reasons out of his control.
Him not getting his dream move to Chicago doesn't make him loyal for some odd reason:no:

[SwayDizzle]

That's actually precisely right. He isn't loyal bc he DID want out and demanded a trade which never materialised for reasons out of his control.
Him not getting his dream move to Chicago doesn't make him loyal for some odd reason:no:
he is loyal because he stayed 19 years with the same team. the reasoning why is irrelevant.

[Mr Feeny]

he is loyal because he stayed 19 years with the same team. the reasoning why is irrelevant.

Except it is. Had he gotten his wish he would have been in Chicago. That isn't loyalty:no:

[SwayDizzle]

Except it is. Had he gotten his wish he would have been in Chicago. That isn't loyalty:no:
have you never wished to quit your job and then stuck with it for whatever reason? would you not call yourself loyal for sticking with it? I agree that chance or fate or whatever you want to call it, plays a big role in the direction we follow. however, to a certain extent we have control over it as well. If Kobe really wanted to go, he would have. I'm fairly certain of that and I'm not ignoring the fact the FO's decisions influence his.

[AlphaWolf24]

In other words my point is exactly correct:

Both Dirk and Kobe wanted to leave but ended up staying (Dirk by choice, Kobe because his dream move to Chicago was blocked )

AND

Dirk took a large paycut to help his franchise in a huge sign of loyalty while Kobe did what Kobe does and made sure he was the highest paid player in the league :applause:


No they both wanted to win....Dirk said " If I didn't win I would have left"

Kobe was trying to re prove himself after everything that happened with his R**e case and Shaq.

It is well documented how many times Dirk has been frustrated with Cuban ....Dirk prolly would have joined Kobe in LA....( Like Dirk Himself said)


"I wish I could join Kobe"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CLcdl5GZfBM#t=56

[SwayDizzle]

No they both wanted to win....Dirk said " If I didn't win I would have left"

Kobe was trying to re prove himself after everything that happened with his R**e case and Shaq.

It is well documented how many times Dirk has been frustrated with Cuban ....Dirk prolly would have joined Kobe in LA....( Like Dirk Himself said)


"I wish I could join Kobe"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CLcdl5GZfBM#t=56
damn son, if Dirk joined Kobe during their prime years, the league would have shut down

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe has more alpha in his broken fingers on his shooting hand than Lebron has in his entire being.

It's just so natural for Kobe.

[dubeta]

Kobe is a fraud and the idiots believing this quote is a perfect example

[stalkerforlife]

Everyone and their mama knows Kobe demanded a trade to light a fire under management's ass.

Kobe is too alpha to quit on a team for greener pastures.

[riseagainst]

Lebron actually left his team... twice.
Kobe only said he was going to leave for sh1ts and giggles but stayed and won championships through tough times.
But Kobe betrayed his team and lebron is a savior.
#lebronStanLogic

[Mr Feeny]

have you never wished to quit your job and then stuck with it for whatever reason? would you not call yourself loyal for sticking with it? I agree that chance or fate or whatever you want to call it, plays a big role in the direction we follow. however, to a certain extent we have control over it as well. If Kobe really wanted to go, he would have. I'm fairly certain of that and I'm not ignoring the fact the FO's decisions influence his.

If I changed my mind, yeah I'd consider myself loyal.
That's not what happened with Kobe. He wanted to leave and was almost literally begging for his dream move to Chicago.
Paxon didn't want him if Deng was included and therefore shot down the deal.
That's where the distinction is. It's not loyalty. It's just someone not being granted his wish to go to Chicago.

[hawke812]

Kobe is a fraud and the idiots believing this quote is a perfect example

HE is not though. I remember praying that HE would get the help HE needed. HE did not leave us, but brought us two more championships.

I believe.

[Optimus Prime]

Haters trying to trash Kobe for getting frustrated when he was younger and wanting to go to another team...and the power was in his hands to leave because he had a no trade clause.

Whereas LeBron bailed on his team not once, but twice...

:kobe:

[TheMarkMadsen]

he might have been mad at us for not treating him right during certain points but he never left us and in the end was always ours..

dat loyalty :bowdown: :bowdown:

GOAT girlfriend

[STATUTORY]

he might have been mad at us for not treating him right during certain points but he never left us and in the end was always ours..

dat loyalty :bowdown: :bowdown:

GOAT girlfriend
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Kobe is a ride and die b1tch
Bran is steal ur ride on his way to south beach b!tch

[TheMarkMadsen]

if anything the fact that Kobe got so mad that he was ready to leave but never actually did just further demonstrates his loyalty..

it's easy to stay when times are good, but the true ride or die's will stick with you no matter what.

just because your girl is mad at you doesn't mean she ain't loyal, as long as she aint fvckin or svckin some other dongs during your fight and you guys work things out and end up being better for it then where's the problem?

[G0ATbe]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/4703663/peter-parker-crying-o.gif
GOAT gonna GOAT

[TheMarkMadsen]

leave it to lebron stans to associate being mad with being disloyal

if you get into a fight with your girl is she disloyal? :roll: :roll:

Kobe dat type of bitch you wife up :bowdown: :bowdown:

[TheGreatDeraj]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.


Kobe fought the tough times with the only tool he had, a trade demand.

It was Dr. Buss who didn't want to pay Shaq after 2004. Then 04-05, 05-06 and 06-07 happened where prime Kobe didn't have enough help to compete in the West with Dirk, Duncan and Nash all having significantly better teams surrounding them.

[QUOTE=Mark Medina]

[Laker Logic]

The things im saying are just....public record.
The things im saying are just....public record.ul.


You're being way too dismissive of the most widely available and not-subject-to-interpretation fact of all - that he didn't leave.

People swear they're going to leave their woman/man all the time and say and do all kinds of foul shit in the heat of the moment.

If you look back years later, only those that stayed together are having anniversaries to celebrate what? Loyalty. Doesn't make them heroes, doesn't erase what they went through, and you can guess all day as to what really went down and why they stayed together. Money? Maybe. No better option? Maybe. Coming to their senses? Maybe that too.

But your saying you doubt someone's loyalty due to something they said or even intended years ago - when they're still in a relationship today doesn't really mean much - it's loyalty by definition. Even simpler here because couples can cheat - Kobe wasn't capable of sneaking out to play for another team.

Where I agree is people put too much significance into it - loyalty can be a bad thing, it's all dependent on context.

[JT123]

if anything the fact that Kobe got so mad that he was ready to leave but never actually did just further demonstrates his loyalty..

it's easy to stay when times are good, but the true ride or die's will stick with you no matter what.

just because your girl is mad at you doesn't mean she ain't loyal, as long as she aint fvckin or svckin some other dongs during your fight and you guys work things out and end up being better for it then where's the problem?
So if she TRIES to give some other dude dome while you are in a fight, but he turns her down, does that still make her loyal? :confusedshrug:
I would appreciate an answer from any Kobe stan.

[20Four]

So if she TRIES to suck some other dudes dome while you are in a fight, but he turns her down, does that still make her loyal? :confusedshrug:
I would appreciate an answer from any Kobe stan.
Good point! She isn't loyal if you put it like that.....but lets get back to reality....nobody turned down kobe in the trade...he brought the players to him....gasol....

[DaOldLion]

Good point! She isn't loyal if you put it like that.....but lets get back to reality....nobody turned down kobe in the trade...he brought the players to him....gasol....

:applause: :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

Good point! She isn't loyal if you put it like that.....but lets get back to reality....nobody turned down kobe in the trade...he brought the players to him....gasol....

Awww sure they did. Paxon didn't want him and turned him down if Deng was to be involved. You weren't watching back then so it's alright if you weren't aware of these facts.
Shame. Kobe never got his dream move to Chicago :(

[AnaheimLakers24]

kobe is so damn nice to us. he could have left but didnt

bran could have left and did... twice

[pastis]

lol. kobe stans infested waters here:kobe:

[JT123]

Awww sure they did. Paxon didn't want him and turned him down if Deng was to be involved. You weren't watching back then so it's alright if you weren't aware of these facts.
Shame. Kobe never got his dream move to Chicago :(
Damn, Feeny be schooling these Kobe stans. :applause:

[G-Funk]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.



Kobe was retaliating to false reports from this "Lakers Insider" initially...


Bryant was left "beyond furious" by a report in Tuesday's Los Angeles Times that read, "as a Lakers insider notes, it was Bryant's insistence on getting away from Shaquille O'Neal that got them in this mess."



Here is what Kobe said on Dan Patrick following his angry outburst on the Stephen A. Smith show...

"I'm so tired of talking," Bryant said. "It's tough. I always dreamed about retiring as a Laker. I just hope and hope that something can be resolved. Something can be figured out. Just something so I can stay here and be in this city and be with the team I love."

Bryant told Patrick he talked to Jackson after talking to Smith and felt resassured.

"When Phil and I spoke, he was optimistic and determined that we'll both be back," Bryant told Patrick. "Phil is somebody I listen to. I lean on him a lot. He assured me things are going to be OK. Things are going to be all right. Don't go full bore just yet. Take a deep breath and let us work these things out and everything will be all right. Which was very encouraging.

"I don't want to go anywhere else. I want to be here for the rest of my career. It was encouraging to hear that."

Later Monday, he had two different messages for the Los Angeles-area media.

"I can only hope that they do something because I don't want to go no place else. I don't want to," he told radio station KLAC. "I want to stay here. I hope they can do something."


Here is what Kobe said about what really happened with the whole Shaq trade and why he was so pissed off...


In response to the Times' story, Bryant, interviewed by Smith for a Philadelphia Inquirer column, said Buss "called a meeting with me after he spoke with Jim Gray [of ESPN] to talk with him about Shaq's future in the middle of the 2004 season.

"He met with me at the Four Seasons Hotel here [in Newport Beach, Calif.] across from Fashion Island, which is now the Island Hotel," Bryant told Smith. "I went up to his penthouse suite. [Buss] looks me dead in the face and says: 'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in hell. I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.

"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"

"Dr. Buss said that," Bryant told Smith. "And I haven't said anything for years because I've always felt like folks were just looking to create controversy. Now I know. I realize what extent [the Lakers] will go to, to cover themselves."


Here is what Shaq had to say about Kobe's interpretation...


Reached afterward, O'Neal told Smith that he believed his former teammate to be beyond reproach.

"I believe Kobe 100 percent," O'Neal said when reached in Los Angeles. "Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind Kobe is telling the truth. I believe him a thousand percent.

"I would have respected Dr. Buss more as a man if he would have told me that himself, because I know he said it. But he didn't [tell me]. He never said a damn word to me."




So yes, Kobe was annoyed that this "Lakers Insider" was spreading false propaganda about him (most likely Jim Buss) and as a result, said some things in the moment that he later went back on and regretted saying. Yes, he did want the team to get better... Did he leave... NO.

When Kobe was a free agent back in the summer of 2004 did he leave... NO.

Did Kobe re-up when he could have gone somewhere else to chase rings in the twilight of his career just this last season... NO.

Is Kobe now demanding a trade when is team is sucking and the popular opinion is that he should request a trade to try and win number six... NO.

[STATUTORY]

So yes, Kobe was annoyed that this "Lakers Insider" was spreading false propaganda about him (most likely Jim Buss) and as a result, said some things in the moment that he later went back on and regretted saying. Yes, he did want the team to get better... Did he leave... NO.

When Kobe was a free agent back in the summer of 2004 did he leave... NO.

Did Kobe re-up when he could have gone somewhere else to chase rings in the twilight of his career just this last season... NO.

Is Kobe now demanding a trade when is team is sucking and the popular opinion is that he should request a trade to try and win number six... NO.

Kobe is that girl that gets mad at you when you fall off the wagon because she knows you could do better and she wants the best for you

LoyalBe

Bran the type of trifling bitch that snitch on yo ass then sleeps with ur parole officer

[RidonKs]

You're being way too dismissive of the most widely available and not-subject-to-interpretation fact of all - that he didn't leave.

People swear they're going to leave their woman/man all the time and say and do all kinds of foul shit in the heat of the moment.

If you look back years later, only those that stayed together are having anniversaries to celebrate what? Loyalty. Doesn't make them heroes, doesn't erase what they went through, and you can guess all day as to what really went down and why they stayed together. Money? Maybe. No better option? Maybe. Coming to their senses? Maybe that too.

But your saying you doubt someone's loyalty due to something they said or even intended years ago - when they're still in a relationship today doesn't really mean much - it's loyalty by definition. Even simpler here because couples can cheat - Kobe wasn't capable of sneaking out to play for another team.

Where I agree is people put too much significance into it - loyalty can be a bad thing, it's all dependent on context.
:applause:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Shut it down, Blaze. :pimp:

People talk about LeBron "quitting" and all that noise -- while that is true, fact is Kobe was a few losses and a Pau Gasol away from jumping ship and likely signing w/ the Clippers. Everyone that heard his radio interview and watched that season remembers this.

Dude redeemed himself to the tune of a league MVP, which quickly made people forget.
Kobe was under contract for the next four years, how was any of that even possible?

[RRR3]

Some of you might want to take a step back and seriously consider why you're talking about Kobe as if he were your girlfriend

[DaOldLion]

Some of you might want to take a step back and seriously consider why you're talking about Kobe as if he were your girlfriend


Do you even metaphor?

[Cold soul]

Some of you might want to take a step back and seriously consider why you're talking about Kobe as if he were your girlfriend

I've noticed you do same thing when comes to Lebron. :lol

[Mgamer20o0]

Kobe was under contract for the next four years, how was any of that even possible?
players force trades all the time.

[chazzy]

Awww sure they did. Paxon didn't want him and turned him down if Deng was to be involved. You weren't watching back then so it's alright if you weren't aware of these facts.
Shame. Kobe never got his dream move to Chicago :(
Uh.. Kobe turned down the trade if it included Deng because he wanted to play with him. The Lakers didn't want to trade him without getting back Deng. "Facts"

[Levity]

Kobe is that girl that gets mad at you when you fall off the wagon because she knows you could do better and she wants the best for you


:lol :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Some of you might want to take a step back and seriously consider why you're talking about Kobe as if he were your girlfriend

ive seen it all now

http://s11.postimg.org/9glgqnkg3/Untitled_6.png

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Awww sure they did. Paxon didn't want him and turned him down if Deng was to be involved. You weren't watching back then so it's alright if you weren't aware of these facts.
Shame. Kobe never got his dream move to Chicago :(

mutha fcuking liars like u r dime a dozen on forums like these spreading lies...

Kobe had the no trade clause and demanded deng NOT to be part of any trade discussions with the lakers.

lakers won't trade for ben gordan and some junk.

try again next time with kids who have joined date in 2014s

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Damn, Feeny be schooling these Kobe stans. :applause:

how old are u 8? fcuking idiot

[jlip]

Where I agree is people put too much significance into it - loyalty can be a bad thing, it's all dependent on context.

This.

KG on loyalty:

"Loyalty is something that hurts you at times, because you can't get youth back. I can honestly say that if I could go back and do my situation over, knowing what I know now with this organization, I'd have done it a little sooner."

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Damn, Feeny be schooling these Kobe stans. :applause:

how old are u 8? fcuking idiot

[RRR3]

I've noticed you do same thing when comes to Lebron. :lol
Find me ONE post where I compared the way Lebron behaved to a girlfriend, as the markmadsen and others were doing on previous pages. I'll wait.

[houston]

kobe alright he will be fine

[SwayDizzle]

If I changed my mind, yeah I'd consider myself loyal.
That's not what happened with Kobe. He wanted to leave and was almost literally begging for his dream move to Chicago.
Paxon didn't want him if Deng was included and therefore shot down the deal.
That's where the distinction is. It's not loyalty. It's just someone not being granted his wish to go to Chicago.
According to your logic, no person is ever truly loyal then. You are placing too much emphasis on the what ifs. The married couple that has stayed together for 40 years is not a loyal couple because during the time they experienced turbulence in their relationship they weren't granted their wish of seeing someone else; simply because the encounter with their potential attractor didn't happen at that time.

[Simple Jack]

The people suggesting the situation is analogous to not leaving your girlfriend or a job despite wanting to or speaking about it are just wrong. As KBlaze suggested earlier, the analogy is wrong because in those 2 situations, it is your own choice to stay. The analogy would be appropriate had Kobe been a FA and decided to stay.

Intent is what's important here. Actual statements at the time (rather than conjecture and fan-made scenarios) suggest he had every intention of not staying with the Lakers.

Are people really that stupid to suggest it's as simple as "but he stayed?" Do you people look at every situation the same way? Simply based on the end result, without considering what led up to it?

[SwayDizzle]

The people suggesting the situation is analogous to not leaving your girlfriend or a job despite wanting to or speaking about it are just wrong. As KBlaze suggested earlier, the analogy is wrong because in those 2 situations, it is your own choice to stay. The analogy would be appropriate had Kobe been a FA and decided to stay.

Intent is what's important here. Actual statements at the time (rather than conjecture and fan-made scenarios) suggest he had every intention of not staying with the Lakers.

Are people really that stupid to suggest it's as simple as "but he stayed?" Do you people look at every situation the same way? Simply based on the end result, without considering what led up to it?
Is it not Kobe's choice to stay with the same team for 19 years+? The analogy stands, like Kblaze, you are placing too much importance on the what ifs.

[Mr Feeny]

According to your logic, no person is ever truly loyal then. You are placing too much emphasis on the what ifs. The married couple that has stayed together for 40 years is not a loyal couple because during the time they experienced turbulence in their relationship they weren't granted their wish of seeing someone else; simply because the encounter with their potential attractor didn't happen at that time.

I honestly, truly have no idea what you're talking about. We're talking about Kobe and his lack of loyalty when he demand to be traded, and you're talking about married couples.

What planet are you on?

[Mr Feeny]

Is it not Kobe's choice to stay with the same team for 19 years+? The analogy stands, like Kblaze, you are placing too much importance on the what ifs.

No. It was his choice and wish to leave. It didn't material zero not because he was loyal and changed his mind, but because John Paxon didn't want him if he had to give up Deng.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

players force trades all the time.
Imagine the Lakers trading prime Kobe to the Clippers. Get real...

[AnaheimLakers24]

kobe stayed
bran didnt

5> 2*

[dreamwarrior]

Would you say Jordan wasn't loyal to the Bulls then? He did more for the city of Chicago than any other athlete. He had his issues with management for his entire career being underpaid but stuck it out despite clearly wanting out at one point. It wasn't a talk from management that kept him in Chicago. It was all about the money and the Knicks couldn't afford him so they ended up signing Allan Houston instead.

Kobe simply wanted assurance that the Lakers would build a competitive team. Buss was one of the few owners who actually put winning above money. Why were the Wizards and Bobcats shit under Jordan's control? Because he clearly stated that his job was to maximize profits [and not to build championship teams].

I wouldn't have faulted Lebron for leaving a team who couldn't make the playoffs, but he had left two teams right after they had just reached the finals!

[riseagainst]

Lebron left his team... twice.

Kobe only said he was going to leave for sh1ts and giggles but stayed and won championships through tough times.

But Kobe betrayed his team and lebron is a savior.

#lebronStanLogic

:roll:
:roll:

[bigkingsfan]

If you want loyalty, get a dog.

[KyrieTheFuture]

According to your logic, no person is ever truly loyal then. You are placing too much emphasis on the what ifs. The married couple that has stayed together for 40 years is not a loyal couple because during the time they experienced turbulence in their relationship they weren't granted their wish of seeing someone else; simply because the encounter with their potential attractor didn't happen at that time.
What the **** is this shit? You want to play relationships? You'd be fine with your wife constantly trying to **** other dudes, as long as they said no?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Would you say Jordan wasn't loyal to the Bulls then? He did more for the city of Chicago than any other athlete. He had his issues with management for his entire career being underpaid but stuck it out despite clearly wanting out at one point. It wasn't a talk from management that kept him in Chicago. It was all about the money and the Knicks couldn't afford him so they ended up signing Allan Houston instead.

Kobe simply wanted assurance that the Lakers would build a competitive team. Buss was one of the few owners who actually put winning above money. Why were the Wizards and Bobcats shit under Jordan's control? Because he clearly stated that his job was to maximize profits [and not to build championship teams].

I wouldn't have faulted Lebron for leaving a team who couldn't make the playoffs, but he had left two teams right after they had just reached the finals!
Uh what?

And no one props up Jordan for his loyalty. Dude wasn't loyal to anyone who couldn't help him win.

[chazzy]

No. It was his choice and wish to leave. It didn't material zero not because he was loyal and changed his mind, but because John Paxon didn't want him if he had to give up Deng.
Kobe didn't want to play on a Bulls team without Deng, and the Lakers didn't want to trade Kobe without getting Deng back

[Lakers Legend#32]

We'll see how long Kobe feels this way.

[SwayDizzle]

What the **** is this shit? You want to play relationships? You'd be fine with your wife constantly trying to **** other dudes, as long as they said no?
eh no

[SamuraiSWISH]

Uh what?

And no one props up Jordan for his loyalty. Dude wasn't loyal to anyone who couldn't help him win.
Um he didn't pout, throw team Pluto tantrums or ask to be traded publically on countless sports shows after the '89, and '90 seasons when his cast continued to fail him in critical moments or series.

Nor did he opt out of a contract or bail on them via free agency to sign with fellow prime superstars to win as easily as possible. Like a competitive coward.

He was loyal to Chicago, his coach, and his long time teammate. Pippen. That is the very definition of loyalty. He showed it by retiring when he still had basketball left in him, and personally still wanted to play.

Why would 35 year old Jordan go from winning a 2nd 3-peat with a team still capable of winning more, that was disassembled due to lack of loyalty from ownership, to playing with a rebuilding franchise with no intent on competing for championships?

Krause broke the team up due to ego. Undeserved ego thinking he won those 6 rings due to the team he put together, and not because the GM prior lucked into getting the GOAT. Sure he built a nice team around him, but he also dismantled the team a season or two before they were truly done.

Crumbs was unloyal, and wanted to prove he wasn't just MJ's GM. And as a result could never sign free agents like McGrady, Hill, Duncan and others because players saw how unloyal he was to not only the GOAT, but other players who made him look good like Pippen. Or their coach PJ.

MJ after '98 had no selfish legacy agendas of hanging around, gunning 30 shots a game on a team full of scrubs to overtake Kareem's all-time scoring record, like current Kobe. Though he probably could have.

He also continued living in Chicago, loyal to the city, and wanted to be GM but given Reinsdorf allegiance to Krause it wasn't going to happen.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Um he didn't pout, throw team Pluto tantrums or ask to be traded publically on countless sports shows after the '89, and '90 seasons when his cast continued to fail him in critical moments or series.

Nor did he opt out of a contract or bail on them via free agency to sign with fellow prime superstars to win as easily as possible. Like a competitive coward.

He was loyal to Chicago, his coach, and his long time teammate. Pippen. That is the very definition of loyalty. He showed it by retiring when he still had basketball left in him, and personally still wanted to play.

Why would 35 year old Jordan go from winning a 2nd 3-peat with a team still capable of winning more, that was disassembled due to lack of loyalty from ownership, to playing with a rebuilding franchise with no intent on competing for championships?

Krause broke the team up due to ego. Undeserved ego thinking he won those 6 rings due to the team he put together, and not because the GM prior lucked into getting the GOAT. Sure he built a nice team around him, but he also dismantled the team a season or two before they were truly done.

Crumbs was unloyal, and wanted to prove he wasn't just MJ's GM. And as a result could never sign free agents like McGrady, Hill, Duncan and others because players saw how unloyal he was to not only the GOAT, but other players who made him look good like Pippen. Or their coach PJ.

MJ after '98 had no selfish legacy agendas of hanging around, gunning 30 shots a game on a team full of scrubs to overtake Kareem's all-time scoring record, like current Kobe. Though he probably could have.

He also continued living in Chicago, loyal to the city, and wanted to be GM but given Reinsdorf allegiance to Krause it wasn't going to happen.
I just said Jordan was loyal to people who help him win. I would never pretend it's not management's fault the Bulls broke up they were an absolutely joke who couldn't handle being less important than a player.

Edit: My only point is that MJ is not a "if you're on my team you're my brother" type of guy

[pauk]

You knew before you posted this that the logical and obvious reply is Kobe demanding a trade and only remaining a Laker because the Bulls and Lakers couldnt agree on a deal that would let us keep Deng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg_lEbanplM

Magic Johnson...the Lakers VP at the time...flat out tells the world it was a real request...and they were trying to work it out with the Bulls. They actually completed a deal to send him to the Pistons for Prince, Rip, Amir Johnson, and a pick. Dr.Buss called him to his house to explain because it wasnt one of the teams Kobe wanted so he would have to waive his no trade clause to be sent.

And Kobe changed his mind then or shortly after.

Talking about "Dont give me that BS". The Kobe fan denial/ignoring of that ordeal in order to paint him as loyal is one of the biggest examples of BS in recent sports history.

You dont get to decide this issue. It isnt anyones opinion. Kobe demanded a trade...and cited losing as the reason. Saying he felt he had no choice.

Not opinion.

Reality.

Millions of fans delt with that annoying drama for weeks. I sat here...reading posts from longtime Kobe fans ready to see him go because he betrayed the franchise after so brief a down time. The topics still exist....

Nobody is ever going to make one of these BS loyalty topics about Kobe and not hear about it.

http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/gifs/ether.gif

[BIZARRO]

I like Kobe, but right when I read those comments I just immediately thought BS.

Easy to say that now that he knows he's locked in with his crazy contract, and that he's basically done after that contract anyway. Combining it with that the guy has had the least "tough times" of any great wing in history; having Shaq, and then a ridiculously long talented front line in Gasol/Bynum/Odom, where he rarely ever felt any pressure he is feeling now (and losing).

Combining that with the comments as a not so indirect stab at Bron and trying to act "old school", the fighting through the tough times comments come off as incredibly loaded.

If he had Bron's cast for all those years in Cleveland he would have eventually wanted out too. And he would have never won 66 games in a year with those casts either.

Again I like Kobe, but his "fighting through the tough times" comments are weak for myriad reasons.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I like Kobe,

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/a3/a34585f539df998a31c989bc7c547fa1ddb8ec24df0d0d26c1 370fbb32cb77d7.jpg

[KyrieTheFuture]

As I said, why would MJ stick around after a 2nd 3-peat as a 35+ year old, gunning 30 shots a game with scrubs competing for nothing other than selfish legacy accomplishments the way Kobe is doing now?

Kobe has selfishly handicapped his franchise, his massive contract and his bball agenda is obvious. He talks all this nurturing leadership talk in interviews, then goes out and scores 28 points on 28 shots. That's stunting the growth of his young teammates. He's not helping them, he's handicapping them. That's not leadership. And a player of his age, he should be using what's left of his talent to make others better, his legacy should be passing knowledge on to help the franchise.

Instead he's gunning like he's a 27, and 28 year old as he did in 2006, and 2007. Difference is when he shot 30 times in those seasons he was putting up 40, 50, or even 60+. He got to the line. He could take over, chuck and still win them games. Now? All it does is help his all-time scoring records. It's not helping them win games. That team is horse shit.

Besides the point, MJ was loyal to Chicago. He lived in the city well after retirement. He didn't demand trades when the Bulls were basically subpar to average supporting casts from '84 - '88. Then in '89, and '90 is cast continually underperformed. Once again, no pouting, no trade demands, no opting out for free agency to sign with superior talent.

MJ wanted to be our GM, and the owner foolishly took sides with Krause instead of the game's all time greatest player. It was a no brainer to keep Jordan apart of the organization. Probably one of the dumbest decisions they've ever made.

McGrady wanted to sign here, but Krause scared him off. Tell me, if Jordan was GM ... we could've got him, and Hill. Jordan could've been a player / GM as he was in Washington and still competed for championships.

Jordan was loyal to Chicago, his teammates, and coaches. Idiotically, his bosses weren't loyal back. Even though he lined their pockets with gold, and gave the entire franchise it's value.

:facepalm

Edit: Pippen was the only carry over for the vast majority of his career. From '87 - '98. Jordan verbatim referred to Pippen as brother. Why would all the interchangeable parts around those two guys over the course of years coming and going be considered brothers? Especially all the new crappy pieces following the '98 season?

Let's not act like MJ wasn't loyal. He isn't near the prim donna Kobe, and LeBron have exposed themselves to be.
I never said MJ was disloyal, just not a loyal till death guy. It was an offhand comment that you're taking incredibly seriously just because it's Michael Jordan.

[Simple Jack]

Is it not Kobe's choice to stay with the same team for 19 years+? The analogy stands, like Kblaze, you are placing too much importance on the what ifs.

I'm dealing with reality and what Kobe said...not assuming why he said those things.

A better girlfriend analogy would include a guy who made dating website profiles and flirted with women constantly, but never actually hooked up with any of them. We going to act like that's still being loyal because he never left his girlfriend? **** outta here.

[Heavincent]

All I care about is the bottom line, and the bottom line is that Kobe didn't leave. He stayed and won two more titles. Period. He didn't pout because the Lakers denied his trade request...he led his team to the best record in the west despite playing with a pedestrian team for the first half of the season (before they got Pau).

[Heavincent]

A better girlfriend analogy would include a guy who made dating website profiles and flirted with women constantly, but never actually hooked up with any of them. We going to act like that's still being loyal because he never left his girlfriend? **** outta here.

"Constantly"? He was in trade talks for a few months out of 19 years :oldlol:

[aboss4real24]

kobe wanted to b traded in 97

[guy]

Kobe didn't want to play on a Bulls team without Deng, and the Lakers didn't want to trade Kobe without getting Deng back

So basically Kobe was a loyal dude......until the opportunity to play with Luol freaking Deng shows up :oldlol:

[chazzy]

So basically Kobe was a loyal dude......until the opportunity to play with Luol freaking Deng shows up :oldlol:
I was correcting him in saying Paxson refused to trade Deng for Kobe

[plowking]

All I care about is the bottom line, and the bottom line is that Kobe didn't leave. He stayed and won two more titles. Period. He didn't pout because the Lakers denied his trade request...he led his team to the best record in the west despite playing with a pedestrian team for the first half of the season (before they got Pau).

He stayed because the trade didn't go through... Not because of his "loyalty"... :facepalm

Seriously... Some people on here like these NBA players a little too much. Sure, like them for their play on the court, but people on here defending them as human beings as if it matters in their life.

SMH. :facepalm

[Simple Jack]

All I care about is the bottom line, and the bottom line is that Kobe didn't leave. He stayed and won two more titles. Period. He didn't pout because the Lakers denied his trade request...he led his team to the best record in the west despite playing with a pedestrian team for the first half of the season (before they got Pau).

Simply looking at the bottom line doesn't take into account the circumstances that occurred along the way. Who the **** looks at any situation in such black and white terms?