Are the Heat starting to become overrated?

[JT123]

I know they are 3-0, and that their fans are very excited about being the only undefeated team in the East. However, I like to use context when it comes to evaluating a team's record. I think the argument can be made that 2 of these 3 wins have been based more on luck than talent. Let's analyze

1. Beat a Wizards team with no Beal or Nene, while the Heat had all their main guys healthy.
2. Beat a good Toronto team today, but honestly the Raptors beat themselves by missing 15 free throws. :wtf: :facepalm

Their other win was against the Sixers, so I don't think any explanation is required there. :lol I see all these threads about Miami being contenders and Bosh being an MVP candidate, but to me this feels very premature. We still have yet to see what the Heat would look like against a true contender.

[Im Still Ballin]

Agreed. It's early on.

[Crose]

is anyone else amused by how much better they look now that they aren't being held back?

bosh goes from franchise player to spot up shooter to now being in the mvp conversation and his team undefeated

wade looks dejected and done with lebron the last couple years, then suddenly becomes a star sg again

meanwhile lebron gets outplayed by both of his star teammates in cleveland against the lowly knicks, and melo drains a game winner in lebron's face :lol

sure seems like the heat are doing fine without lebron :roll:

[JT123]

is anyone else amused by how much better they look now that they aren't being held back?

bosh goes from franchise player to spot up shooter to now being in the mvp conversation and his team undefeated

wade looks dejected and done with lebron the last couple years, then suddenly becomes a star sg again

meanwhile lebron gets outplayed by both of his star teammates in cleveland against the lowly knicks, and melo drains a game winner in lebron's face :lol

sure seems like the heat are doing fine without lebron :roll:
Why do you keep mentioning LeBron? :wtf:
This thread has nothing to do with him. :confusedshrug:

[Crose]

Why do you keep mentioning LeBron? :wtf:
This thread has nothing to do with him. :confusedshrug:
it is not off topic because lebron played with the heat last year and now he does not, it is just a friendly observation about the heat, and are the heat not who we are talking about? i am just adding to the topic by investigating what kinds of improvements the team has made and how they have looked in this new situation. which is playing without lebron. off topic would be bringing up durant or kobe or jordan which then has nothing to do with the topic. but lebron is still relevant when talking about the heat because it is interesting to see how the heat adapt to life without lebron.

and so far they are undefeated and bosh and wade look like stars. you tell me what that means :confusedshrug:

[Cocaine80s]

it is not off topic because lebron played with the heat last year and now he does not, it is just a friendly observation about the heat, and are the heat not who we are talking about? i am just adding to the topic by investigating what kinds of improvements the team has made and how they have looked in this new situation. which is playing without lebron. off topic would be bringing up durant or kobe or jordan which then has nothing to do with the topic. but lebron is still relevant when talking about the heat because it is interesting to see how the heat adapt to life without lebron.

and so far they are undefeated and bosh and wade look like stars. you tell me what that means :confusedshrug:
Wade: 16/5/7 on 42%= playing like a star? :confusedshrug:

[Crose]

Wade: 16/5/7 on 42%= playing like a star? :confusedshrug:
sure if you want to look at raw stats, klay thompson is better than lebron james right now


but if you watch the heat, wade has been a closer and big for them in important moments. which is something he could no do last year or the year before when lebron was making everyone spot up shooters and taking them out of the game

[Cocaine80s]

sure if you want to look at raw stats, klay thompson is better than lebron james right now


but if you watch the heat, wade has been a closer and big for them in important moments. which is something he could no do last year or the year before when lebron was making everyone spot up shooters and taking them out of the game
You just proved that you didnt watch a single heat game the past 2 years and ur just spewing typical kobe stan bullshit :facepalm

[Crose]

You just proved that you didnt watch a single heat game the past 2 years :facepalm
exaggerated a bit but lebron definitely did make players play less of their game

wade could not play to his capability with lebron, lebron leaves, and then now he is closing games and coming through for miami and they are undefeated

what other conclusion can you reach from that?

[Cocaine80s]

exaggerated a bit but lebron definitely did make players play less of their game

wade could not play to his capability with lebron, lebron leaves, and then now he is closing games and coming through for miami and they are undefeated

what other conclusion can you reach from that?
Thats what happens when 3 star players are on the same team :facepalm

If Wade left, Bosh and Lebron would have better stats. If Bosh left, Lebron and Wade would have better stats. How do you not get this logic?

Lebron was the best player out of the 3, therefore he closed the games for them.

[Flush]

As a Heat fan Im just waiting for Heat to play against Western conf team. These games against East are just meaningless. True Heat power will be exposed in games against the West.

[Crose]

Thats what happens when 3 star players are on the same team :facepalm

If Wade left, Bosh and Lebron would have better stats. If Bosh left, Lebron and Wade would have better stats. How do you not get this logic?

Lebron was the best player out of the 3, therefore he closed the games for them.
this goes beyond stats

they are not just having better numbers, bosh is more engaged and assertive as a scorer/rebounder and leader. why should you be less of a presence inside and less of a leader and less of a rebounder with lebron? why is it that bosh is more confident with more energy without lebron? there is clearly comfortability factor when you play with lebron, that is, you sacrifice much more to play with lebron than other players do when they play with other great players. kobe can be a tough player to play with but gasol still thrived with him because kobe doesn't force gasol to play out of position, to stretch out of his comfort zone to match his skills, anything like that. they built a great connection on court because kobe knows gasol's skills and is intelligent to feed him when he can and take over when necessary. he doesn't put on some facade of unselfishness by making everyone stretch the floor and get out of his way so he can kick it out for padded assists. he creates offense within the offense and people stay in the game. even when he is "selfishly" scoring he does so without his teammates taken out of their comfort zone.

wade is able to do more things now not just because he is getting some of lebron's shots but also because their offense is more free flowing. lebron is not there to control everything and minimize his players around him. players are now more open to contribute to the offense and put their strengths on the table. it is not just lebron dribbles for 15 seconds, pulls up, or drives for a layup or drives and kicks it out. they have more variation in their offense and we are seeing it with bosh and wade playing like stars and miami being undefeated

[Cocaine80s]

this goes beyond stats

they are not just having better numbers, bosh is more engaged and assertive as a scorer/rebounder and leader. why should you be less of a presence inside and less of a leader and less of a rebounder with lebron? why is it that bosh is more confident with more energy without lebron? there is clearly comfortability factor when you play with lebron, that is, you sacrifice much more to play with lebron than other players do when they play with other great players. kobe can be a tough player to play with but gasol still thrived with him because kobe doesn't force gasol to play out of position, to stretch out of his comfort zone to match his skills, anything like that. they built a great connection on court because kobe knows gasol's skills and is intelligent to feed him when he can and take over when necessary. he doesn't put on some facade of unselfishness by making everyone stretch the floor and get out of his way so he can kick it out for padded assists. he creates offense within the offense and people stay in the game. even when he is "selfishly" scoring he does so without his teammates taken out of their comfort zone.

wade is able to do more things now not just because he is getting some of lebron's shots but also because their offense is more free flowing. lebron is not there to control everything and minimize his players around him. players are now more open to contribute to the offense and put their strengths on the table. it is not just lebron dribbles for 15 seconds, pulls up, or drives for a layup or drives and kicks it out. they have more variation in their offense and we are seeing it with bosh and wade playing like stars and miami being undefeated
this is stupid because by your logic Kobe is the same since Jeremy Lin is having the worst performances of his career playing alongside Kobe.

Not having Lebron on the Heat wont stop Bosh from getting raped inside against legit big men. Lebron had nothing to do with Hibbert and Duncan destroying Bosh. Lets wait and see what happens then

[Warfan]

Undefeated, so impressive. I mean they've played against so many great teams :oldlol: They've played average teams, raps or the wizards definitely wouldn't make the playoffs in the West. Beal and Nene didn't play either. And they also beat the worst team in the league. Ill have a better opinion of them a month or 2 from now. They still have a pretty good roster, i think deng will play well. Mcroberts is a nice piece too.

[Crose]

this is stupid because by your logic Kobe is the same since Jeremy Lin is having the worst performances of his career playing alongside Kobe.

Not having Lebron on the Heat wont stop Bosh from getting raped inside against legit big men. Lebron had nothing to do with Hibbert and Duncan destroying Bosh. Lets wait and see what happens then
the lakers are all around horrible because of poor coaching, poor roster, and also obviously kobe is nowhere near his best days because of age and injuries. when has jeremy lin been so great aside from linsanity anyways? he was poor in golden state, poor in houston, and now with a terrible team and coach he is playing poorly. there is every reason for him to be playing awful basketball because he is not a great player, and he is on a team that amplifies that. if kobe was at his best like lebron was in miami, lin definitely would have an easier time.

to your second point lebron definitely has something to do with that. when you spend your entire season getting pushed out to out of your comfort zone, to taking deeper and deeper jumpers, of course you will struggle when suddenly you must fight down low with big guys like hibbert and serious post threats like duncan. if lebron's heat went to bosh in the post and used him like a proper big man, they would be better prepared to deal with those guys in the playoffs. there is a confidence factor to this game. when you are relegated to shooting and are no real active part of the offense, how can you be expected to do it out of the blue?

now bosh has had all summer to work on being the main guy, training camp, preseason, and now regular season. he can become the guy he should have been in recent years. the numbers might be because lebron is gone but the game has visibly changed as well. because he is more comfortable and used like he should be.

[coin24]

OP posting in his lame troll thread with his alts what else is new..

Yawn.


Current old man kobe >>>>> bran could ever dream of being.

[Nash]

is anyone else amused by how much better they look now that they aren't being held back?

bosh goes from franchise player to spot up shooter to now being in the mvp conversation and his team undefeated

wade looks dejected and done with lebron the last couple years, then suddenly becomes a star sg again

meanwhile lebron gets outplayed by both of his star teammates in cleveland against the lowly knicks, and melo drains a game winner in lebron's face :lol

sure seems like the heat are doing fine without lebron :roll:
unless you truly believe Miami will do better than 4 finals and 2 championships then this post wasn't necessary now was it?

[Crose]

unless you truly believe Miami will do better than 4 finals and 2 championships then this post wasn't necessary now was it?
you are missing the point.

of course they won't win a championship without lebron, that is crazy.

all i am saying is that they were visibly playing lower than their capability because lebron does not elevate his teammates play, in fact pushes it down. he makes everyone adapt to him and makes no effort to change to allow teammates to play in a comfort zone

so many great players like mj, duncan, bird, kobe, magic, shaq, and so on could do what lebron did in miami because those guys play a game that does not make teammates play outside their game.

gasol was almost the same player in memphis in los angeles, maybe even better. he was able to elevate his game because kobe made the game easier for him and did not make him change his game. gasol still played in the post, still displayed his passing. he did not force gasol to go out to 3 point range and bomb 3 point shots like a guard just so kobe could benefit. kobe even as people call him selfish, played his game but still let gasol play his game and as a result gasol had the best years of his career and won championships with kobe. bosh won championships with lebron but regressed as a player, and the only reason they won was because of overwhelming talent to get to the finals, and experience in 2012, and lebron playing very well in 2013 (credit where credit is due).

to bring this back on topic, i do not think miami is overrated because bosh and wade were capable of this. they were just not used to their capability because of lebron. lebron is a great player but it is no secret that he changes players games and makes them play out of their comfort zone. now they are back to that comfort zone so it is no surprise they are winning and playing well.

[IMObjective]

There's probably no team more motivated than the heat right now. Certain types of people automatically assuming that they'll crumble like the 2011 cavs after LeBron leaves. Those people are probably a bit worried that the heat might still be good this year.

[Nash]

you are missing the point.

of course they won't win a championship without lebron, that is crazy.

all i am saying is that they were visibly playing lower than their capability because lebron does not elevate his teammates play, in fact pushes it down. he makes everyone adapt to him and makes no effort to change to allow teammates to play in a comfort zone

so many great players like mj, duncan, bird, kobe, magic, shaq, and so on could do what lebron did in miami because those guys play a game that does not make teammates play outside their game.

gasol was almost the same player in memphis in los angeles, maybe even better. he was able to elevate his game because kobe made the game easier for him and did not make him change his game. gasol still played in the post, still displayed his passing. he did not force gasol to go out to 3 point range and bomb 3 point shots like a guard just so kobe could benefit. kobe even as people call him selfish, played his game but still let gasol play his game and as a result gasol had the best years of his career and won championships with kobe. bosh won championships with lebron but regressed as a player, and the only reason they won was because of overwhelming talent to get to the finals, and experience in 2012, and lebron playing very well in 2013 (credit where credit is due).

to bring this back on topic, i do not think miami is overrated because bosh and wade were capable of this. they were just not used to their capability because of lebron. lebron is a great player but it is no secret that he changes players games and makes them play out of their comfort zone. now they are back to that comfort zone so it is no surprise they are winning and playing well.
lebron didn't change anyones game. Spoelstra decided the best version of the Miami Heat would be with Bosh playing as a stretch 4 opening up the floor.

And lebron didn't do anything to Wade. Wade had injuries and 2 bad knees to deal with. wade can't even shoot a 3 so not like lebron 'made' him a spot up shooter.

and please stop bring gasol and kobe to this discussion to somehow tell us how bad of a teammate lebron is compared to kobe when the whole association raves about how awesome of a teammate lebron is and how its widely known that lebron always puts an effort to get his teammates involved.

[Crose]

lebron didn't change anyones game. Spoelstra decided the best version of the Miami Heat would be with Bosh playing as a stretch 4 opening up the floor.

And lebron didn't do anything to Wade. Wade had injuries and 2 bad knees to deal with. wade can't even shoot a 3 so not like lebron 'made' him a spot up shooter.

and please stop bring gasol and kobe to this discussion to somehow tell us how bad of a teammate lebron is compared to kobe when the whole association raves about how awesome of a teammate lebron is and how its widely known that lebron always puts an effort to get his teammates involved.
oh of course he did, dont change the history. there is no reason for bosh to shoot 3s like he did if not for lebron changing the team. the fact is lebron could not play to the strengths of his teammates so he made all of them change for him. lebron is still a great player and wade and bosh are good enough support for them to win championships but the heat underachieved because of all of this.

i agree with wade being injured but still wade in 2012 and a lot of 2013 was still a star player being used incorrectly.

[andremiller07]

They are much more pleasing to watch on the eye now, weather they are better is a completely different story.

[Nash]

oh of course he did, dont change the history. there is no reason for bosh to shoot 3s like he did if not for lebron changing the team. the fact is lebron could not play to the strengths of his teammates so he made all of them change for him. lebron is still a great player and wade and bosh are good enough support for them to win championships but the heat underachieved because of all of this.

i agree with wade being injured but still wade in 2012 and a lot of 2013 was still a star player being used incorrectly.
change history? History brought miami to 4 straight finals and 2 championships. And Bosh didn't start regularly shoot 3's until last season so lets stop acting as if bosh was stuck out there for 4 years.

Bosh wasn't even bad for what his role was. he was 3rd option and scored mostly around 20ppg until last season. His big failure was rebounding which has nothing to do with lebron at all. Miami badly needed to rebound and he didn't show up there. Watching Cleveland and the same thing has not happened to Love(and TT and Varejao).

[Papaya Petee]

I agree it is too early to judge but :roll: :roll: @ bringing up other teams injuries.

Granger and Haslem haven't played a game yet, with Anderson and McRoberts missing 1 game each and McBob just slowly getting into the system.

Wade hasn't gotten going yet and theyre just beggining to mesh together.

3-0

[poido123]

Heat are a good team, still have the chemistry.

They added deng and McRoberts, while not exactly replacing lebron they havent fallen off all that much. Plus their passing looks better too without LeBron pounding and dominating the ball.

Hilarious if they take down the Cavs. Ruin lebrons legacy forever :lol

[PJR]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355713

This moronic Bran stan is in full blown damage control mode. Was making definitive predictions that the Heat were going to suck all preseason. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Sorry, but the Heat are not going to fit the narrative you want them too, buddy. Far too competent of an organization. Going to be a rough year for you if you thought they were going to crash and burn without Mr 2 for 5.

[coin24]

Nash (Pauk) on damage control already:lol

As we all knew the Heat were/are a great team without bran.. Now they're looking better cause bran isn't there to hog the ball and turn everyone into spot up shooters.
No coincidence he's doing the same thing to the cavs. Luckily they have Tristan Thompson :lol

[plowking]

Best team in the league at the moment. Norris Cole and Chris Bosh tied for MVP.

[returnofthemack]

They have an core of guys that are used to winning and going deep into the playoffs. And they have superstars to lead them. I think they are contenders for a 3rd or 4th seed and possibly an eastern conference finals appearance. If all goes well maybe more but it's a long season and they are going to need to stay motivated and healthy.

[r15mohd]

is anyone else amused by how much better they look now that they aren't being held back?

bosh goes from franchise player to spot up shooter to now being in the mvp conversation and his team undefeated

wade looks dejected and done with lebron the last couple years, then suddenly becomes a star sg again

meanwhile lebron gets outplayed by both of his star teammates in cleveland against the lowly knicks, and melo drains a game winner in lebron's face :lol

sure seems like the heat are doing fine without lebron :roll:


I'd use that word "better" very lightly...they look good, but are they really better than a Lebron led team?

also, I want to see how they fair against the harder teams...basically the West, where a Lebron led Heat team was pretty successful. I'm definitely rooting for them, but to say the team is "better" without the best player in the game is really stupid.

hopefully I'm wrong and we reach Finals number 5...all while knocking out the Cavs in the ECF :D

[Nuff Said]

is anyone else amused by how much better they look now that they aren't being held back?

bosh goes from franchise player to spot up shooter to now being in the mvp conversation and his team undefeated

wade looks dejected and done with lebron the last couple years, then suddenly becomes a star sg again

meanwhile lebron gets outplayed by both of his star teammates in cleveland against the lowly knicks, and melo drains a game winner in lebron's face :lol

sure seems like the heat are doing fine without lebron :roll:

It's funny, with all these posts in this thread you've yet to even address the topic. Do you feel the heat praise is rightfully justified or are they overrated? And no, lebron has absolutely nothing to do with this question.

[TAZORAC]

I know they are 3-0, and that their fans are very excited about being the only undefeated team in the East. However, I like to use context when it comes to evaluating a team's record. I think the argument can be made that 2 of these 3 wins have been based more on luck than talent. Let's analyze

1. Beat a Wizards team with no Beal or Nene, while the Heat had all their main guys healthy.
2. Beat a good Toronto team today, but honestly the Raptors beat themselves by missing 15 free throws. :wtf: :facepalm

Their other win was against the Sixers, so I don't think any explanation is required there. :lol I see all these threads about Miami being contenders and Bosh being an MVP candidate, but to me this feels very premature. We still have yet to see what the Heat would look like against a true contender.

Until AT LEAST 12-15 games are played, early season standings don't indicate much. Orlando had the best record in the EAST last season for the first 7-8 games, then had almost the worst record at the end of the season.

Miami will be a 7 or 8 playoff seed if that, Wade will probably start getting hurt soon.

[f0und]

i think people are just really amused by the heat being the only undefeated team up top the east. people are just taking that and having fun with it, making silly statements. i dont think anyone is actually serious about them being a legit title contender this early. got to wait until at least 20 games to even start thinking about it.

[Asukal]

If the heat beats the cavs in the playoffs expect lebeta to go back to miami next season. :oldlol: