America's retarded voting system is the reason I dont give a f*ck about our politics.

[russwest0]

If you're part of a large minority, then none of your views get represented in the slightest.

Say you and everyone else in your state votes on a senator. 49% vote for an independent candidate who seems level headed and perfect for the job but has little funding, and the other 51% vote for an old jackass who belongs to one of the major parties but never seems to lose office because of the campaign funding he's accumulated through businesses bribes and shit.

The 49% would get ZERO representation in political office and the dumb asses would continue to get represented by another shitty politician who doesn't speak for them in the slightest.

This is why America's voting system is retarded. And in presidential elections you can apply the same rules. Presidents basically only battle over like 4-5 states that are neutral and don't give a shit about the rest, and the majority vote for one of the two major guys, in fear that if they don't, then the other will rise to power, instead of voting for better candidates not considered a realistic option?

The solution for the presidential vote? Just have people number candidates in order of who they prefer and have a voting system weighed by that. That way people won't be scared shitless to vote for the candidates who aren't owned by corporations...

And for these mid term elections? Just overhaul the system to change it based on representation through voting. That way our congress is accurately represented by exactly what the people want...

Just my .02

[russwest0]

The system has basically alienated me to the point of being totally disinterested in all political affairs.

It probably is a large part of the reason I do so many drugs as well.

[MavsSuperFan]

The system has basically alienated me to the point of being totally disinterested in all political affairs.

It probably is a large part of the reason I do so many drugs as well.
:lol

[russwest0]

:lol

Laugh at it all you want, but it's the truth. Me and many others in my generation are sick of the bullshit political system that just keeps throwing a bunch of these ****ing corporate sellouts into office.

Now take a drug like DMT that is already in your body and gets released from the brain when you die? Sounds like something to me you'd be best off smoking to get closer to the truth.

Though I must add the real trip for that shit begins.... once the initial trip ends...

[MavsSuperFan]

If you're part of a large minority, then none of your views get represented in the slightest.

Say you and everyone else in your state votes on a senator. 49% vote for an independent candidate who seems level headed and perfect for the job but has little funding, and the other 51% vote for an old jackass who belongs to one of the major parties but never seems to lose office because of the campaign funding he's accumulated through businesses bribes and shit.

The 49% would get ZERO representation in political office and the dumb asses would continue to get represented by another shitty politician who doesn't speak for them in the slightest.

This is why America's voting system is retarded. And in presidential elections you can apply the same rules. Presidents basically only battle over like 4-5 states that are neutral and don't give a shit about the rest, and the majority vote for one of the two major guys, in fear that if they don't, then the other will rise to power, instead of voting for better candidates not considered a realistic option?

The solution for the presidential vote? Just have people number candidates in order of who they prefer and have a voting system weighed by that. That way people won't be scared shitless to vote for the candidates who aren't owned by corporations...

And for these mid term elections? Just overhaul the system to change it based on representation through voting. That way our congress is accurately represented by exactly what the people want...

Just my .02
How would that account for regional differences?

Lets be honest individual districts compete with each other for jobs. A lot of the time people will continue voting for their local congressman even if they totally disagree with him on most things, but he brings jobs into the district.

Eg. the congressman fights to have a portion of the M1 tank built in his district or a portion of an F-22 raptor.

the local economy may almost entirely dependent on these industries.
Eg. workers in the factory make good wages, they then spend more at local restaurants and shops, more people move into the neighborhood and start businesses, property values increase, local schools get better, etc.
There is a multiplier effect.

[theballerFKA Ace]

I would say it works pretty good, it seems like everyone in America is a little unhappy but not so much that we are rioting in the streets. :lol

[DeuceWallaces]

Lol. Nothing like 19 year olds disenfranchised with the "system" they've lived through for about 2 years.

Lives for free at home while bitching about politics and his minimum wage job.

[NumberSix]

Actually, the voting system is perfect if you have common sense. If you live in a red state, but you're a "liberal" your vote won't really count, but you're free to move to one of the many blue states.

Insane people have this retarded idea that all 50 states should be the exact same. That's stupid. Having 50 different states with different laws and culture means that you have 50 choices. If you don't like New York, maybe Texas or Florida would be more to your liking.

Options > uniformity.

[MavsSuperFan]

Actually, the voting system is perfect if you have common sense. If you live in a red state, but you're a "liberal" your vote won't really count, but you're free to move to one of the many blue states.

Insane people have this retarded idea that all 50 states should be the exact same. That's stupid. Having 50 different states with different laws and culture means that you have 50 choices. If you don't like New York, maybe Texas or Florida would be more to your liking.

Options > uniformity.
This is a great point. There is no laws limiting american citizens from moving around the country. Unlike in like china where chinese citizens from poor rural areas move into big cities like shanghai and work illegally.

China has residency laws that create huge advantages for people born in rich areas.

[russwest0]

Lol. Nothing like 19 year olds disenfranchised with the "system" they've lived through for about 2 years.

Lives for free at home while bitching about politics and his minimum wage job.

A rivalry is born. F*ck you old man.

[Dresta]

Massive municipal devolution is the only way as far as i can see to encourage more political interest and activity among an increasingly disillusioned citizenry (as well as producing a community spirit that has completely receded over the past 150 years). It would also involve far more people in politics and help cultivate interest in it. When everything is done by a massively complex and impersonal bureaucratic machinery that's heavily centralised, it leads to the alienation of individuals, and hence the epidemic-like proportions of our mental health problems in individuals.

People don't like feeling like inconsequential ants: it makes them anxious and depressed, and scientistic utilitarianism (very much the philosophy of the government and people at large) is disconnecting people from their heritage and shared history.

I agree with this quote basically:


'And there are (non-bureaucratic) things we can do to support Europe as a cultural realm. We can return to the idea of education not as a way of developing professional skills, but as a way of inculcating the (essential) ability to communicate in a friendly way above and beyond national and financial interests, on the basis of a great common tradition. We need schools that will teach Latin and Greek, schools that will allow us to rediscover the joy of immersing ourselves in our common cultural past. We need to teach history with the aim of getting young people to understand who they are - who they themselves are - as the heirs to a past both glorious and disgraceful. If we lose our history, the sense of our past as something that belongs to us, is a part of us, and together with it the ability to answer the question "Who are we?:" we shall also lose the ability to discern a non-utilitarian meaning to life, to find non-utilitarian justifications for what we do; and without this ability we will be faced with spiritual emptiness and chaos.'

Here lies the existential crisis facing modern man, and the feelings of emptiness it engenders (not helped by the deterioration of the family which gives people stability as well as a sense of worth and meaning). Get an education - get a job - get money and contribute to society - but why do this when so many are feeling increasingly detached from society and people at large? More and more people are asking themselves: why bother? And this is what's it's like when we're still rich! I shudder to think what it'll be like in a 50 years or so.

[Dresta]

Actually, the voting system is perfect if you have common sense. If you live in a red state, but you're a "liberal" your vote won't really count, but you're free to move to one of the many blue states.

Insane people have this retarded idea that all 50 states should be the exact same. That's stupid. Having 50 different states with different laws and culture means that you have 50 choices. If you don't like New York, maybe Texas or Florida would be more to your liking.

Options > uniformity.
Doesn't work when all power effectively lies with the Federal government though. There is a small amount of manoeuvrability on the local level, but not much; all the big things are decided centrally, and Federal law is binding on all 50 states.

****, these days you can't even leave the country and not remain under the thumb of the US Federal government.

[MavsSuperFan]

Doesn't work when all power effectively lies with the Federal government though. There is a small amount of manoeuvrability on the local level, but not much; all the big things are decided centrally, and Federal law is binding on all 50 states.

****, these days you can't even leave the country and not remain under the thumb of the US Federal government.
yes you can just give up your citizenship

[KevinNYC]

**** that James Madison retard.

[russwest0]

Massive municipal devolution is the only way as far as i can see to encourage more political interest and activity among an increasingly disillusioned citizenry (as well as producing a community spirit that has completely receded over the past 150 years). It would also involve far more people in politics and help cultivate interest in it. When everything is done by a massively complex and impersonal bureaucratic machinery that's heavily centralised, it leads to the alienation of individuals, and hence the epidemic-like proportions of our mental health problems in individuals.

People don't like feeling like inconsequential ants: it makes them anxious and depressed, and scientistic utilitarianism (very much the philosophy of the government and people at large) is disconnecting people from their heritage and shared history.

I agree with this quote basically:



Here lies the existential crisis facing modern man, and the feelings of emptiness it engenders (not helped by the deterioration of the family which gives people stability as well as a sense of worth and meaning). Get an education - get a job - get money and contribute to society - but why do this when so many are feeling increasingly detached from society and people at large? More and more people are asking themselves: why bother? And this is what's it's like when we're still rich! I shudder to think what it'll be like in a 50 years or so.

Absolutely agreed with this.

The best way to change the system is to start with the most important area, education. Start by empowering the youth through education. Instead of using schools to pound professional ideals into kids brains and scare them into thinking that they need to think and act like everyone else to fit in, why not make schools into a fun place for learning and development? I know it's easier said than done, but we could certainly be doing much better than we are now.

Start by teaching kids how to have an intelligent discussion, how to approach and deal with conflict, hell maybe even teach them WHY things like history matter as opposed to just cramming it so far down their throats you get the majority thinking that classes like history and math won't even affect them at all in the real world.

[Dresta]

yes you can just give up your citizenship
And why should anyone have to give up their right to return to their homeland? What if this leaves them without citizenship in any country? Unfortunately, many Americans are relinquishing their citizenship due to the despotic behaviour of its Federal government (it's policy of taxing foreign income is a complete disgrace), and it's really quite sad.


**** that James Madison retard.
The current voting system really looks nothing like that implemented by Madison. Madison himself was opposed to political parties and the Constitution doesn't provide for them.

[russwest0]

**** that James Madison retard.

You kidding? I'd kill to have Jame Madison as one of our nations leaders right now. He understood as much as anybody that no man is free from the temptations of combining greed with power, and that we constantly need to be questioning our methods of authority and how we go about distributing power.

Our current system is basically just the rich elite using money as a way of manipulating the stupid masses to get a 51% majority to put more of their corporate buddies into office. You know it, I know it, hell, we all do. But as it stands now I don't see it changing anytime soon.

[KevinNYC]

Madison himself was opposed to political parties and the Constitution doesn't provide for them.

He got over that pretty quick didn't he? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party)

[KevinNYC]

You kidding? I'd kill to have Jame Madison as one of our nations leaders right now.

The issue of getting to 51% dates from his time does it not?

[Dresta]

He got over that pretty quick didn't he? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party)
Not really. Not only was that barely a party in the modern sense, it was formed primarily as an allegiance against Hamilton who Jefferson (in particular) and Madison thought was scheming to turn the US system into a copy of the British one. In Federalist 10 he wrote:


The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society.

A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good. So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.

Madison felt the emergence of parties to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean he approved of party divides and their consequences (in Federalist 50 he emphasises the need to guard against the 'evil' it creates).


The issue of getting to 51% dates from his time does it not?
No: again, it doesn't. Madison as much as anyone was aware of the dangers of letting the majority dictate policy. The idea of majority Democratic consent on the other hand dates all the way back (at least) to ancient Greece (where it quickly won a bad name for itself)

What the founders instituted wasn't really democracy at all but republicanism, and that has largely been forgotten due to the power the dogma of popular sovereignty seems to hold over most people. Nearly all the founders died despairing at the consequences brought by their experiment (Jefferson was aghast at the emergence and popularity of the likes of Jackson).

[KevinNYC]

Not really. Not only was that barely a party in the modern sense, it was formed primarily as an allegiance against Hamilton who Jefferson (in particular) and Madison thought was scheming to turn the US system into a copy of the British one. In Federalist 10 he wrote:



Madison felt the emergence of parties to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean he approved of party divides and their consequences (in Federalist 50 he emphasises the need to guard against the 'evil' it creates).


No: again, it doesn't. Madison as much as anyone was aware of the dangers of letting the majority dictate policy. The idea of majority Democratic consent on the other hand dates all the way back (at least) to ancient Greece (where it quickly won a bad name for itself)

What the founders instituted wasn't really democracy at all but republicanism, and that has largely been forgotten due to the power the dogma of popular sovereignty seems to hold over most people. Nearly all the founders died despairing at the consequences brought by their experiment (Jefferson was aghast at the emergence and popularity of the likes of Jackson).

Still got over it pretty quick though. You could still get elected to Congress with 51% of the vote in 1790's. Yes, not everyone got sufferage and Senators were elected by the state legislatures and the electoral college exists, but Russwest was complaining about 51% of the vote getting you elected. So he should take that up with Madison because there's nothing in the constitution that prevents that.

In fact lots of presidents became president with less than 51% of the popular vote including Lincoln, Wilson, Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton and W. Bush.

[Im Still Ballin]

A rivalry is born. F*ck you old man.
:roll:

[DeuceWallaces]

A rivalry is born. F*ck you old man.

A rivalry insinuates that you're able to fight back.

[GimmeThat]

If you're part of a large minority, then none of your views get represented in the slightest.

Say you and everyone else in your state votes on a senator. 49% vote for an independent candidate who seems level headed and perfect for the job but has little funding, and the other 51% vote for an old jackass who belongs to one of the major parties but never seems to lose office because of the campaign funding he's accumulated through businesses bribes and shit.

The 49% would get ZERO representation in political office and the dumb asses would continue to get represented by another shitty politician who doesn't speak for them in the slightest.

This is why America's voting system is retarded. And in presidential elections you can apply the same rules. Presidents basically only battle over like 4-5 states that are neutral and don't give a shit about the rest, and the majority vote for one of the two major guys, in fear that if they don't, then the other will rise to power, instead of voting for better candidates not considered a realistic option?

The solution for the presidential vote? Just have people number candidates in order of who they prefer and have a voting system weighed by that. That way people won't be scared shitless to vote for the candidates who aren't owned by corporations...

And for these mid term elections? Just overhaul the system to change it based on representation through voting. That way our congress is accurately represented by exactly what the people want...

Just my .02


and if you are part of the 51%?

you would say "well, I ought to represent the 49% more than the 51%"