So, how long until Cleveland fans admit that their team f*cked up in trading Wiggins?

[russwest0]

Wiggins had a great game the other night and when you watch him it's like you can see him grow before your eyes.

The thing I love most about the kids game is that when he gets the ball on offense there isn't any hesitation to his game. He either shoots, attacks, or passes the ball. And vs the Nets last night sometimes the score would get close and Wiggins would step up and drain a shot. You can see him developing his own killer instinct.

I just don't understand how if you're Cleveland you get a prospect such as Andrew Wiggins and trade him away to help bring your ex back to town. Wiggins is just 19 years old and now you're going to have to deal with him for the next 15+ years instead of having him on your side. Makes no sense to me. Wiggins actually seems like a pretty nice kid as well. No ego, no expectations, just wants to play for a team that wants him and wants to ball.

[Jailblazers7]

It really is nice to see a young guy have no instinct to be a ball stopper on offense. He's a talented cutter and he looks to be decisive with his decisions. I'm sure he will start having the ball in his hands more over time but it's a good sign that his first instinct is to be efficient with the ball. A thing like that is infectious when it comes from your best player, which Wiggins will be eventually.

[riseagainst]

the game comes so naturally to him. I have not seen any rookie with this much mental experience since rookie MJ. I see a great future ahead of him. He may become the next Kobe, or even the next MJ. Also playing all of his prime out with the team he started on. But too bad some people with their anti-agendas will probably say he was drafted by Cleveland first and demanded a trade to Minnesota.

[Nets fan 93]

the game comes so naturally to him. I have not seen any rookie with this much mental experience since rookie MJ. I see a great future ahead of him. He may become the next Kobe, or even the next MJ. Also playing all of his prime out with the team he started on. But too bad some people with their anti-agendas will probably say he was drafted by Cleveland first and demanded a trade to Minnesota.
I hope that is never said:lol

[russwest0]

It really is nice to see a young guy have no instinct to be a ball stopper on offense. He's a talented cutter and he looks to be decisive with his decisions. I'm sure he will start having the ball in his hands more over time but it's a good sign that his first instinct is to be efficient with the ball. A thing like that is infectious when it comes from your best player, which Wiggins will be eventually.

Yup, his offensive game actually reminds me of Durant a little.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I've maintained it was a mistake since it happened

[aj1987]

Isn't this your 3rd Wiggins thread today?

As I said in the other thread, Wiggins was average at best in college. He was garbage until yesterdays game. I hope he becomes an elite player, but Love IS an elite player. Dude was a top 10 player last season.

[coin24]

I never liked the trade for the Cavs, love it for the Wolves and especially for Wiggins.. Hes free to develop now and not be scrutinized for not carrying brans declining ass..

[Optimus Prime]

Love isn't the problem in Cleveland.

Maybe they should have traded LeBron for Love?

:confusedshrug:

[Budadiiii]

Wiggins is a monster.

But Cle can win now with Love...

LeBron is already declining so what good would it be to have whatever prime he has left playing with a developing Wiggins.

It's a fair trade IMO.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wiggins has one decent game out of 4, and suddenly he's better than Kevin Love?

[MP.Trey]

I've maintained it was a mistake since it happened
Same here. We threw a lot of our future away in the trade but hopefully it all pays dividends in the end. I don't care if we dont win this year but we need to win at least one in the next three years, or however long LeBron stays (I think he'll retire a Cav but I've been wrong about him before) in order to validate the trade for me.

[Budadiiii]

Wiggins has one decent game out of 4, and suddenly he's better than Kevin Love?
Who said he was better than Kevin Love?

[Hey Yo]

the game comes so naturally to him. I have not seen any rookie with this much mental experience since rookie MJ. I see a great future ahead of him. He may become the next Kobe, or even the next MJ. Also playing all of his prime out with the team he started on. But too bad some people with their anti-agendas will probably say he was drafted by Cleveland first and demanded a trade to Minnesota.
I see a lot of bullshit ^^^^^

[HurricaneKid]

Yup, his offensive game actually reminds me of Durant a little.

We thought you were dumb. Thanks for confirming.

[Dengness9]

OP, I have no beef with you but I hate this thread.

One of the best two way trades I've seen in my life.

Wiggins is 2 years away from being an all star at minimum but joins a young and talented Wolves team that can grow together.

The Cavs are in win now mode and got Kevin Love, a top 10 player.

I really like Wiggins but the Cavs had to make that move, especially considering Lebron came here in part because he knew Love was on the way.

Bron doesn't leave Miami even after the last finals if it was gonna be just him and Kyrie in Cleveland and the rest of the supporting cast.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Wiggins had a great game the other night and when you watch him it's like you can see him grow before your eyes.

The thing I love most about the kids game is that when he gets the ball on offense there isn't any hesitation to his game. He either shoots, attacks, or passes the ball. And vs the Nets last night sometimes the score would get close and Wiggins would step up and drain a shot. You can see him developing his own killer instinct.

I just don't understand how if you're Cleveland you get a prospect such as Andrew Wiggins and trade him away to help bring your ex back to town. Wiggins is just 19 years old and now you're going to have to deal with him for the next 15+ years instead of having him on your side. Makes no sense to me. Wiggins actually seems like a pretty nice kid as well. No ego, no expectations, just wants to play for a team that wants him and wants to ball.

What makes it's even worst is that Anthony Bennett is playing great also.

[heyhey]

I told Cavs fans they would rue that trade within 5 years

[MiseryCityTexas]

Wiggins has one decent game out of 4, and suddenly he's better than Kevin Love?


Yeah I agree. Wiggins played like crap until the Nets game.

[bagelred]

It could still work out, of course, but I would not have traded Wiggins. Reason being is Wiggins contract is small. You could have kept Wiggins and ADDED another big time player in free agency if they were patient. But they had to have Kevin Love now...so....oh well.

I'm sure Cavs will get their shit together eventually though.

[FatComputerNerd]

I was against the trade.

I actually cared more about losing Bennett (he's gonna be a stud) than I did losing Wiggins though.

That said, Love has been great for us so far overall, and is clearly not the problem.

[Meticode]

Cavs problems have been defense and pounding the ball. The biggest issue is Irving right now. The ball is being dominated way too much by him when a offense that should having a moving ball and moving bodies. Utterly no excuse to have 6 assist as a team when you have a team that has Love, James and Irving on it.

[russwest0]

Cavs problems have been defense and pounding the ball. The biggest issue is Irving right now. The ball is being dominated way too much by him when a offense that should having a moving ball and moving bodies. Utterly no excuse to have 6 assist as a team when you have a team that has Love, James and Irving on it.

Sounds like Wiggins could help with that. He'd quite eaisly be their best defender, even as a rookie.

[JtotheIzzo]

Isn't this your 3rd Wiggins thread today?

As I said in the other thread, Wiggins was average at best in college. He was garbage until yesterdays game. I hope he becomes an elite player, but Love IS an elite player. Dude was a top 10 player last season.

So runner-up Big 12 POY as a Freshman is 'average at best'? That means only one player in the toughest conference last year was average or above?

Interesting, hope you weren't grading on a curve.

Last night was Wiggins first really effective game, and it wasn't happenstance, he produced all over the floor. Kid is playing chess, while this forum is screaming for checkers.

When his game comes, it will come in waves (3s, rim 2s, oops, and-1s, high post, low post, step back, drives) the kid has a complete package and can play without the ball.

The picture is starting to come together, soon it will be a Picasso.

[D.J.]

Though this is purely speculation and assumptions, I actually would have liked the trade for Cleveland if they could have gotten Rubio. You have a pass first point who loves to do exactly that, plus he can steal the ball a lot(though he does gamble a lot). A team with Bron, Love, and Irving having only 6 assists for the entire game? :facepalm This is where a pass first point like Rubio comes in very handy. He has the best player in the game, plus an old teammate he can feed the rock to on a consistent basis.

[Dave3]

So runner-up Big 12 POY as a Freshman is 'average at best'? That means only one player in the toughest conference last year was average or above?

Interesting, hope you weren't grading on a curve.

Last night was Wiggins first really effective game, and it wasn't happenstance, he produced all over the floor. Kid is playing chess, while this forum is screaming for checkers.

When his game comes, it will come in waves (3s, rim 2s, oops, and-1s, high post, low post, step back, drives) the kid has a complete package and can play without the ball.

The picture is starting to come together, soon it will be a Picasso.
I hope you're right because that first game against Memphis pissed me off. The kid touched the ball literally once in the first half, barely got any touches the second half, and played 18 minutes in all. They're starting to realize he exists and he's making the best of it which I really enjoy watching.

[aj1987]

So runner-up Big 12 POY as a Freshman is 'average at best'? That means only one player in the toughest conference last year was average or above?

Interesting, hope you weren't grading on a curve.

I'm not really big on college basketball, so I'm going off of his stats and what people were saying in this board. He was hyped up to be the next LeBron and "disappointed" people when he was with Kansas (going off the reactions on this board).



Last night was Wiggins first really effective game, and it wasn't happenstance, he produced all over the floor. Kid is playing chess, while this forum is screaming for checkers.

When his game comes, it will come in waves (3s, rim 2s, oops, and-1s, high post, low post, step back, drives) the kid has a complete package and can play without the ball.

The picture is starting to come together, soon it will be a Picasso.

This is what I'm talking about. The guy might end up being a great player. He's not a great player now though. The way you guys are building him up, it's like he's the next MJ/LeBron/Kobe etc..

As I said, Love is already an elite player. The Cavs want to win NOW and not in a year or two.

[Rose'sACL]

it has only been 4 games.
Thunder fans have seen it for long enough but are not ready to admit that trading harden was one of the worst moves ever.

[Rose'sACL]

This is what I'm talking about. The guy might end up being a great player. He's not a great player now though. The way you guys are building him up, it's like he's the next MJ/LeBron/Kobe etc..

As I said, Love is already an elite player. The Cavs want to win NOW and not in a year or two.
the only reason this forum is so high on wiggins is because he was traded by cleveland where lebron now plays. They would give a fck if it was some other team doing the same. May be one thread after a mont but there are multiple threads after just 4 games.

[buddha]

all the cavs had to do was wait one god damn season and they could have had.

Kyrie
Wiggins
LeBron
Love
Tristan

[D.J.]

it has only been 4 games.
Thunder fans have seen it for long enough but are not ready to admit that trading harden was one of the worst moves ever.


The move had to be done because he was clearly going to be a star one day, and there's no way they could pay those three and have money left over to sign solid role players.

[coin24]

The move had to be done because he was clearly going to be a star one day, and there's no way they could pay those three and have money left over to sign solid role players.


OKC still havnt made a decent move, tight asses:lol

[poido123]

it has only been 4 games.
Thunder fans have seen it for long enough but are not ready to admit that trading harden was one of the worst moves ever.


I don't think Thunder fans are that concerned, considering they avoided overpaying him AND they got Perry Jones, Lamb AND eventually Adams as compensation plus draft picks.

I don't see how that is the worst trade ever.

[sportjames23]

I never liked the trade for the Cavs, love it for the Wolves and especially for Wiggins.. Hes free to develop now and not be scrutinized for not carrying brans declining ass..

:oldlol:

[Rose'sACL]

I don't think Thunder fans are that concerned, considering they avoided overpaying him AND they got Perry Jones, Lamb AND eventually Adams as compensation plus draft picks.

I don't see how that is the worst trade ever.
i think they would have won by now if they had harden even though their coach is not good. people underrate harden so much. he is a great second option on a championship calibre team.
Also, lol@lamb, jones and adams. all are second/third tier role players. Adams is the best of them and he can't play regularly for 25+ mins in playoffs without fouling out.

[LilEddyCurry]

Both teams benefitted from the trade. Cavs get to please Lebron and also get a top 15 player in the league in his prime to contend for a title (although they are playing like crap at the moment). Minnesota got Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett for a player who wasn't going to resign. The two number one picks now get a chance to develop but wow imagine if cleveland managed to trade Kevin love for waiters and Thompson..

[Nash]

OKC should just not mess around with trades. They draft well, trade terribly.

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
Green
Ibaka

[kurple]

cleveland will win by 20 tonight

[Dresta]

I'm not really big on college basketball, so I'm going off of his stats and what people were saying in this board. He was hyped up to be the next LeBron and "disappointed" people when he was with Kansas (going off the reactions on this board).




This is what I'm talking about. The guy might end up being a great player. He's not a great player now though. The way you guys are building him up, it's like he's the next MJ/LeBron/Kobe etc..

As I said, Love is already an elite player. The Cavs want to win NOW and not in a year or two.
Thing is: that team has almost no chance of winning the title the way it is currently constituted. They actually haven't got any good defenders who can play starters minutes, and Varajao is probably just gonna get injured anyway (not that they already don't need an Ibaka to cover for that team's defensive weaknesses). They aren't going to win and they threw away their future to appease Lebron - how typical :lol.

[Lebronxrings]

i admit, we faqed up hard on that trade since love isn't even a top 10 pf anymore. I don't expect us to make the playoffs. If we do, the leading scorer has GOT to be mvp.

[aj1987]

Thing is: that team has almost no chance of winning the title the way it is currently constituted. They actually haven't got any good defenders who can play starters minutes, and Varajao is probably just gonna get injured anyway (not that they already don't need an Ibaka to cover for that team's defensive weaknesses). They aren't going to win and they threw away their future to appease Lebron - how typical :lol.
Jesus. What's with your LeBron hate, dude? I remember you used to support him when he was with the Heat. Anyways, it has only been 4 games. Love, Irving, and LeBron NEED to improve defensively, if they want to win. Love and Irving have never played defense, so it'll be a big step up for them. Should learn to share the offensive load, so that they'll have enough energy for the other end.

[r15mohd]

Thing is: that team has almost no chance of winning the title the way it is currently constituted. They actually haven't got any good defenders who can play starters minutes, and Varajao is probably just gonna get injured anyway (not that they already don't need an Ibaka to cover for that team's defensive weaknesses). They aren't going to win and they threw away their future to appease Lebron - how typical :lol.

they have a 50-50 chance IMO...any team with Lebron on it has a Finals run in the mix right now (that's just how good he is), and once they are there, who knows what will happen or who the opponent is to favor the Cavs. the East is favorable to them as well, I don't see the Bulls taking them in 7 as yet, DRose is up/down still. Miami and Washington look to be the real threats at this point (boy would I love to see Miami take out the Cavs in the ECF this year :D ), NY hasn't clicked to say they are something significant to mention either.

As for Wiggins, he has potential, but to say Cle regrets this trade...highly doubt it. As AJ said, Cleveland needs to win and really win within the next 3 yrs. that is their legitimate timeline with Lebron and his HUGE impact to the game before he simmers a bit. the return on Wiggins is too far down the line for the plan Cleveland has in place...it's the risk they take in trading him away, but I don't feel there is any doubt to what has transpired so far, especially it being just a week into the season.

if the Cavs don't make the Finals in the next 3-5yrs with Lebron at the helm, then you can possibly say the trade didn't work out...and that's contingent on Wiggins being a top 5 player in said timeframe, and having very good playoff success.

[r15mohd]

Jesus. What's with your LeBron hate, dude? I remember you used to support him when he was with the Heat. Anyways, it has only been 4 games. Love, Irving, and LeBron NEED to improve defensively, if they want to win. Love and Irving have never played defense, so it'll be a big step up for them. Should learn to share the offensive load, so that they'll have enough energy for the other end.


biting the hand that fed them...Lebron did plenty for Miami in these 4yrs, but many feel he "betrayed" us somehow :confusedshrug: too much emotion tied into it, IMO. plz don't be like the post-decision Cleveland fans, not a good look :no:

as for the Cavs...they'll be fine. Irving has the decision to make and how to proceed as the Cavs PG, if he ignores the words from Lebron and critics, he'll be forced to SG and a spot up 3er and Lebron the point-forward. if he alters his game to become the facilitator, things should have a turn in the right direction for Cleveland...all rests on what angle Irving chooses

[Bandito]

the game comes so naturally to him. I have not seen any rookie with this much mental experience since rookie MJ. I see a great future ahead of him. He may become the next Kobe, or even the next MJ. Also playing all of his prime out with the team he started on. But too bad some people with their anti-agendas will probably say he was drafted by Cleveland first and demanded a trade to Minnesota.
Who would demand a trade to Minnesota? If somebody says that in the future he would deserve to be shot.

[Bandito]

i admit, we faqed up hard on that trade since love isn't even a top 10 pf anymore. I don't expect us to make the playoffs. If we do, the leading scorer has GOT to be mvp.
Irving is never going to be MVP.

[imdaman99]

They will regret it when/if Love signs somewhere else without winning a ring in Cleveland. The problem is that Wiggins is someone that needs work, Love is basically a finished project. Lebron didn't want to be around showing some young gun the ropes, he didn't wanna teach someone that has potential to be a great player and possibly better than him. Not saying Wiggins will come anywhere nearly as good as Lebron, but it's a possibility. We know how impatient and insecure Lebron has been the last few years so the trade had to be done to appease him. And it's not as if he has 5-6 years left as a top 2 player where him and Wiggins could have won rings as a MJ-Scottie type duo.

[Dresta]

Jesus. What's with your LeBron hate, dude? I remember you used to support him when he was with the Heat. Anyways, it has only been 4 games. Love, Irving, and LeBron NEED to improve defensively, if they want to win. Love and Irving have never played defense, so it'll be a big step up for them. Should learn to share the offensive load, so that they'll have enough energy for the other end.
I'm not hating, i just don't think that team is ever going to play defense at a level needed to win a chip the way it is presently constituted. I'm just saying a team of Kyrie/Wiggins/Bron/Thompson/Varajeo with Waiters as a sixth man would have had better balance, and though they likely wouldn't have won this year, they would have a more promising future (this years Cleveland team isn't winning either). In that respect the trade was a mistake. Wiggins also had a far smaller salary and would have made future additions easier (and helped defensively - Love plays terrible defense and always has).

I supported Lebron because he was in Miami, not because i liked him (which i never did - he's always come across as egomaniacal and he brought that shit with him to Miami - i cringed at the Decision, and i cringed at his 'not 7' idiocy - his 'chosen 1' tatoo etc. the list could go on for pages probably), and because his combination of athleticism, size and skill were frequently a pleasure to watch (especially live). This year he's not in Miami, he hasn't been any good (seems to have lost athleticism) and has been downright painful to watch; AND then he's put all the blame for Cleveland's bad start squarely on the shoulders of his teammates (which would be excusable if he hadn't played like ass on both ends himself).

I just don't like him. He comes across as an incredibly selfish and self-obsessed person who likes to take all the credit when things go well and blame others when things go wrong, and his ISH followers seem quite representative of that. I initially accepted the going home letter with a 'fair enough' but after thinking about it a bit more the whole thing really shows what a cynical son of a bitch he really is (while using the media and PR teams to promote the image of the prodigal son returning home). I found the whole thing rather cloying tbh.

edit: and it's not like i've forgotten about 2011 - the only time i actually felt legit hatred towards the man.

[Dresta]

biting the hand that fed them...Lebron did plenty for Miami in these 4yrs, but many feel he "betrayed" us somehow :confusedshrug: too much emotion tied into it, IMO. plz don't be like the post-decision Cleveland fans, not a good look :no:

as for the Cavs...they'll be fine. Irving has the decision to make and how to proceed as the Cavs PG, if he ignores the words from Lebron and critics, he'll be forced to SG and a spot up 3er and Lebron the point-forward. if he alters his game to become the facilitator, things should have a turn in the right direction for Cleveland...all rests on what angle Irving chooses
Who has said they feel betrayed? The only person who has a right to claim that is Wade, and perhaps Riley. I don't feel betrayed, i'm just tired of Lebron James's bullshit like everyone else.

[tontoz]

1 game scoring in double figures so far. :bowdown:

[r15mohd]

Who has said they feel betrayed? The only person who has a right to claim that is Wade, and perhaps Riley. I don't feel betrayed, i'm just tired of Lebron James's bullshit like everyone else.

trust me...being in Miami as well, a LOT of people feel betrayed by him leaving, thinking he did the Heat wrong in some fashion. :confusedshrug: you may not be one of them, but there is a vast amount of fools who think Lebron sold them out by leaving, whether they have the right or not.

personally, I feel too much emotions get caught on this loyalty and players aspect...it's a thought process that 9 out of 10 times is a failure, there aren't many players who ever play out their career with one team, unless they're fortunate up front.

[supercybergeek]

Never

[SpecialQue]

Who said he was better than Kevin Love?

I did.

[russwest0]

1 game scoring in double figures so far. :bowdown:

You'd have to be a complete retard to ignore the potential of Andrew Wiggins.

And as far as what he could contribute for Cleveland right away, he'd give them something they've been desperately lacking to start the season: defense.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Probably be back in two season.