Is Kawhi Leonard the most overrated player in the league?

[Magic731]

Sure, it's good that he shows up when it matters most and that alone makes him a serviceable player. But when is this guy going to show up in the regular season. He is just too inconsistent to be considered a top SF. People keep saying the Spurs will be fine once the big 3 moves on because of this guy but I'm just not seeing it.

[keep-itreal]

About as good as Nicolas Batum

[masonanddixon]

He's just another role player that humiliated lebron, no more no less. He is a system player.

[Paul George 24]

everyones can hv off game :lol

[Paul George 24]

He's just another role player that humiliated lebron, no more no less. He is a system player.

he will prove u wrong,book it :lol

[masonanddixon]

he will prove u wrong,book it :lol

He's a good system role player. Probably an average to slightly below average small forward. No shame in that.

[hawksdogsbraves]

He's a role player who had a good playoff series. Just like Danny Green.

All the people who pretended like he was some kind of superstar who deserved a max deal were just LeBron hater trolls.

[masonanddixon]

He's a role player who had a good playoff series. Just like Danny Green.

All the people who pretended like he was some kind of superstar who deserved a max deal were just LeBron hater trolls.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Lebron fanbois to be pumping him up as elite?

[dreamwarrior]

Trevor Ariza is better than him, though he was shitty tonight too

[hawksdogsbraves]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Lebron fanbois to be pumping him up as elite?

Mmm yeah I suppose so, it definitely wasn't LeBron fanbois who were pumping him up as elite though.

I guess that was just the normal reactionary ISH trolls who were pumping him up.

[T_L_P]

If Leonard is SA's best player/alpha dog (call him the best player last year if you want, but he clearly wasn't the leader/go to guy) we are doomed.

We need a Parker-Kawhi-Gasol/Aldridge kind of group after Duncan and Manu go to stay relevant.

[StephHamann]

Trevor Ariza is better than him, though he was shitty tonight too


:roll:

[poido123]

No.

The guy has performed on the biggest stage and went toe to toe with the best player in the game and delivered in a big way.

I think he has lived up to the hype and should be exempt of criticism based on that alone.

[D-FENS]

He's never going to make an all-star team. He's just not that good.

[kurple]

Trevor Ariza is better than him, though he was shitty tonight too
ariza will come back to earth. not close to the defender leonard is

[Rose'sACL]

Duncan was spurs' best player in 2014 finals. Leonard is still a very good young player.

[kurple]

Duncan was spurs' best player in 2014 finals. Leonard is still a very good young player.
disagree

[Rose'sACL]

disagree
why?

[Magic731]

I certainly think Leonard deserved the finals MVP, I just want to see him be more consistent during the regular season. He has proved on MULTIPLE occasions that he can play all-star quality ball against the BEST opposition in the NBA. So WHY can't he bring that intensity to the regular season? Even nights like tonight when the Spurs are missing half their team and they actually need him, he fails to show up.

[T_L_P]

Leonard deserved that Finals MVP, no doubt.

But it seems whenever one of Tim, Tony or Manu out of the lineup he shrinks (heck, he was horrible yesterday without Tim and Manu). He's the icing on the cake, the guy that can put us over the top/turn us into an all-time great team.

But he should be dominant without the big 3 taking his shots. And I haven't seen that. He didn't score in the 4th+OT of game 6 against OKC, with Parker on the bench. And he looked lost last night.

Now, does that mean he's a scrub or he's overrated like Parsons or Hayward are (according to their contracts)? Absolutely not. But at the same time, he's not and probably will never be a franchise player.

[Slim_Slugga]

Its his 3rd game of the season and he didn't play preseason. He looks rusty and so does the rest of the spurs offense. Spurs fans aint worried about bad November performances, if he playing like this in April than ill worry.

[Dresta]

Leonard deserved that Finals MVP, no doubt.

But it seems whenever one of Tim, Tony or Manu out of the lineup he shrinks (heck, he was horrible yesterday without Tim and Manu). He's the icing on the cake, the guy that can put us over the top/turn us into an all-time great team.

But he should be dominant without the big 3 taking his shots. And I haven't seen that. He didn't score in the 4th+OT of game 6 against OKC, with Parker on the bench. And he looked lost last night.

Now, does that mean he's a scrub or he's overrated like Parsons or Hayward are (according to their contracts)? Absolutely not. But at the same time, he's not and probably will never be a franchise player.
It's the beginning of the season and the Spurs just won a title; i'd wait a bit before making snap judgements. I think he could average like 16/9/4 if he played on a team where he'd get the normal amount of minutes a guy his age tends to get.

[T_L_P]

It's the beginning of the season and the Spurs just won a title; i'd wait a bit before making snap judgements. I think he could average like 16/9/4 if he played on a team where he'd get the normal amount of minutes a guy his age tends to get.

Agreed. And I'm excited about that prospect. But that's not max money imo (obviously in the current climate where Hayward and Parsons get max money it is).

And as I said in another thread, a rebuilding team (what I anticipate us being in 4~ years) paying a non-franchise player max money is the worst thing you can do.

[Dresta]

Agreed. And I'm excited about that prospect. But that's not max money imo (obviously in the current climate where Hayward and Parsons get max money it is).

And as I said in another thread, a rebuilding team (what I anticipate us being in 4~ years) paying a non-franchise player max money is the worst thing you can do.
He's also one of the best perimeter defenders in the league - which bumps his value. I'd definitely take him over Parsons.

[T_L_P]

He's also one of the best perimeter defenders in the league - which bumps his value. I'd definitely take him over Parsons.

So would I. But I wouldn't pay Parsons any more than $9 million.

Truth be told, I don't see what Kawhi does that makes him much better than prime Bowen (who was a much better defender imo and I don't think either of them are great offensive options -- obviously Kawhi is much better). And Bruce never made more than $4 million.

Or am I just being a huge Bruce homer here?

[CoastalRyan]

The real problem is that so many fans of the game are caught up in evaluating a player almost solely by statistics. Highlight reels would be the next factor in rating a player.

This guy fits neither of those narratives on a regular basis.

You can call him a role player but only because he actually plays the role he's been asked to play and the times where he's been afforded additional freedoms he's delivered. IE an improving jumpshot, creating off an unplanned pick and pulling up a mid-range jumper on a busted play.

So some next will discredit his "consistency" but they're clearly not looking at the game as a whole. Inconsistency to some is 5 points one night and 18 the next. Just a wholly absurd way of thinking.

This guy is one of the better players in the NBA that will never be a 20 and 10 guy.

Two things that don't show up in the stat line which are immensely valuable to a team is the ability to rotate effectively on the perimeter and next in the post. He can do both and does is "consistently". Its not just the regular shut-down D. Rotating effectively is the equivalent of creating turnovers in most cases.

Secondly I'd point to his transition D, then his consistency in hitting the corner 3/baseline jumpshot. Nothing more debilitating to the opposing teams defense than hitting that baseline after rotating the ball. Its a game changer.

Lastly his ability to not just play within himself but put aside the notoriety that comes with putting up statistics. He sold out to the system and the system rewarded him with a Finals MVP and Championship season.

This guy will never develop into a prototypical All-Star. But he's certainly a unique style of player. Upper tier for sure but just for different reasons.

[imdaman99]

No. I'd rather have him than Melo that's for sure. If Knicks are gonna tank, they need to get rid of the chucker because the chucker will surely win some games on chucking alone. But I don't think Pop would make that trade.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Duncan was spurs' best player in 2014 finals. Leonard is still a very good young player.
Kawhi and Manu were both better (throughout the year as well not just the finals)

[houston]

no he is not

[G0ATbe]

He's probably the most underrated player. Lets not forget he slaughtered LeBald in 5 games not too long ago.

[Real14]

he's still better than LeBron tho

[IncarceratedBob]

He's not very talented but he's fundamentally sound. A solid NBA player, nowhere near a star but still a good basketball player.

[ArbitraryWater]

Top 20 player in this game... future ATG :bowdown:

[T_L_P]

Kawhi and Manu were both better (throughout the year as well not just the finals)

Easiest series this year was the one where Manu shot 25%.

Oh yeah, definitely our most vital player.

[Paul George 24]

leonard got the hate since he ask got the max contract :facepalm

[rmt]

Kawhi and Manu were both better (throughout the year as well not just the finals)

No, Duncan was better except the Finals compared to Leonard.

2013-14 regular season
Duncan 15.1 pts / 9.7 rebs / 3 asst / 1.9 blks
Leonard 12.8 pts / 6.2 rebs / 2 asst / 1.7 stl
Manu 12.3 pts / 3 rebs / 4.3 asst

2014 playoffs
Duncan 16.3 pts / 9.2 rebs / 2 asst / 1.3 blks
Leonard 14.3 pts / 6.7 rebs / 1.7 asst / 1.7 stl
Manu 14.3 pts / 3.3 rebs / 4.1 asst

2014 Finals
Duncan 15.4 pts / 10 rebs / 2 asst / 0.8 blk
Leonard 17.8 pts / 6.4 rebs / 2 asst / 1.6 stl
Manu 14.4 pts / 3 rebs / 4.4 asst

As far as OT, it's only his 2nd game back and don't think he was allowed to practice with the rest of the time because of the eye infection.

Compared to Bowen, he's already the equal of Bowen as a perimeter defender, a MUCH better rebounder and MUCH more talented offensively (except the corner 3).

Leonard's hard to judge as Pop doesn't give him the minutes or offensive responsibility to prove himself but that's on Pop, not Leonard - he's more than fulfilled what they've asked of him. His performance in the past 2 Finals is enough for me - he deserves the max (especially compared to Parsons). Spurs have no choice as they can't replace him. Only hope there's enough left over to re-sign Green.

[CoastalRyan]

Look this is the problem. Trying to determine who's better via statistics. Where some players are significantly more valuable based on how little of a liability they are with non-statistical aspects of the game.

You can't compare Manu in defending the pick and roll with Leonard. Obviously the advantages Manu brings in other aspects of his game warrant the trade off and risk he can be in other situations.

Splitter is a great example. One of the best rotating bigs in the game. A big that can hedge that good is about as valuable as one that stacks a stat line with 6 blocks a game.

[T_L_P]

Compared to Bowen, he's already the equal of Bowen as a perimeter defender,.

Are you really willing to go that far? You think Kawhi has already proved himself as one of the best perimeter defenders ever?

I'm not even convinced he's the best wing defender on this team (I'd give him the edge over Green but I think it's really close). Bruce was just on a whole 'nother level defensively to any 1-3 the Spurs ever had.

[keep-itreal]

Tim Duncan should've won Finals MVP, not Kawhi Leonard

[PsychoBe]

Tim Duncan should've won Finals MVP, not Kawhi Leonard

nah kawhi deserved it.

[dunksby]

Well he deservedly won a ring and a finals MVP,no way around that. He is not a superstar but he is pretty good.

[Paul George 24]

Tim Duncan should've won Finals MVP, not Kawhi Leonard

no...........kawahi is palying better

[T_L_P]

no...........kawahi is palying better

Kawhi was the Finals MVP, no doubt (he was sensational in games 3-5).

But Duncan was the Playoff MVP imo.

[rmt]

Are you really willing to go that far? You think Kawhi has already proved himself as one of the best perimeter defenders ever?

I'm not even convinced he's the best wing defender on this team (I'd give him the edge over Green but I think it's really close). Bruce was just on a whole 'nother level defensively to any 1-3 the Spurs ever had.

You are correct - very disrespectful of me. Bowen did it for so MUCH longer - much better at getting around screens - guarding the smaller players. Maybe my high regard for Leonard is because the superstars of today (Lebron, Durant, Melo) are taller/bigger but Bowen guarded Dirk, Lebron, Kobe and Nash. I take back the "perimeter" part but still stick by saying they are pretty equal in TOTAL defense (including Leonard's superior rebounding and steals).

[r0drig0lac]

No, Duncan was better except the Finals compared to Leonard.

2013-14 regular season
Duncan 15.1 pts / 9.7 rebs / 3 asst / 1.9 blks
Leonard 12.8 pts / 6.2 rebs / 2 asst / 1.7 stl
Manu 12.3 pts / 3 rebs / 4.3 asst

2014 playoffs
Duncan 16.3 pts / 9.2 rebs / 2 asst / 1.3 blks
Leonard 14.3 pts / 6.7 rebs / 1.7 asst / 1.7 stl
Manu 14.3 pts / 3.3 rebs / 4.1 asst

2014 Finals
Duncan 15.4 pts / 10 rebs / 2 asst / 0.8 blk
Leonard 17.8 pts / 6.4 rebs / 2 asst / 1.6 stl
Manu 14.4 pts / 3 rebs / 4.4 asst

As far as OT, it's only his 2nd game back and don't think he was allowed to practice with the rest of the time because of the eye infection.

Compared to Bowen, he's already the equal of Bowen as a perimeter defender, a MUCH better rebounder and MUCH more talented offensively (except the corner 3).

Leonard's hard to judge as Pop doesn't give him the minutes or offensive responsibility to prove himself but that's on Pop, not Leonard - he's more than fulfilled what they've asked of him. His performance in the past 2 Finals is enough for me - he deserves the max (especially compared to Parsons). Spurs have no choice as they can't replace him. Only hope there's enough left over to re-sign Green.
nice post

[BuffaloBill]

I told yall my guy is getting over his eye injury. He's finding his stride now. He's going to be top 6 in MVP voting this year.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqOmbv0CYAAFKGi.jpg

[fos]

I'm not so sure he's the most overrated, but he's certainly overrated IMO.

[Dro]

I told yall my guy is getting over his eye injury. He's finding his stride now. He's going to be top 6 in MVP voting this year.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqOmbv0CYAAFKGi.jpg
:biggums:

[Im so nba'd out]

About as good as Nicolas Batum
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o84sv2u7KSHKbwPza/giphy.gif
Top 20 player in this game... future ATG :bowdown:

:eek:

[PeroAntic]

First page had me lol

[red1]

No. I'd rather have him than Melo that's for sure. If Knicks are gonna tank, they need to get rid of the chucker because the chucker will surely win some games on chucking alone. But I don't think Pop would make that trade.
smart man. :cheers:


elevating his game in the playoffs a la kawhi and playing lockdown D is something melo couldn't even DREAM of doing.