Top5 all-time defensive players by position

[SHAQisGOAT]

Imo...

PG:
Payton
Frazier
Kidd
Cheeks
KC Jones

SG
Moncrief
Jordan
Cooper
DJ (more of a SG in his peak)
Dumars

SF
Pippen
Rodman (more of a SF when he was winning DPOYs)
Artest
Bowen
Hondo/Gus Johnson/LeBron/Pressey

PF
Garnett
Duncan
Bobby Jones (can be switched with Rodman, at SF)
Roundfield
DeBusschere

C (toughest choices):
Russell
Hakeem
Wilt
Ben Wallace
D-Rob/Mutombo/Thurmond(GOAT m2m post-defender)/Eaton...

[DatAsh]

Imo...

PG:
Payton
Frazier
Kidd
Cheeks
KC Jones

SG
Moncrief
Jordan
Cooper
DJ (more of a SG in his peak)
Dumars

SF
Pippen
Rodman (more of a SF when he was winning DPOYs)
Artest
Bowen
Hondo/Gus Johnson/LeBron/Pressey

PF
Garnett
Duncan
Bobby Jones (can be switched with Rodman, at SF)
Roundfield
DeBusschere

C (toughest choices):
Russell
Hakeem
Wilt
Ben Wallace
D-Rob/Mutombo/Thurmond(GOAT m2m post-defender)/Eaton...


Pretty good list. I'd change a few things but with something so subjective, I don't think my list would be any more correct than yours.

What's your opinion on Satch Sanders?

[kennethgriffin]

all time record holder for defensive 1st teams is not a top 5 shooting guard defender?


go ahead and say 2 of them he didnt deserve. thats still like 4 more than dumars

and dennis johnson was a SG for 6 seasons on basketball reference

and during those 6 seasons he was a 1st team defender 3 times

[SHAQisGOAT]

all time record holder for defensive 1st teams is not a top 5 shooting guard defender?


go ahead and say 2 of them he didnt deserve. thats still like 4 more than dumars

and dennis johnson was a SG for 6 seasons on basketball reference

and during those 6 seasons he was a 1st team defender 3 times

Make your list then... And I don't object against Kobe as a top5 all-time defensive SG, I can't see him above Moncrief, Jordan, Cooper and DJ though.

Yea, I can also say that many selections, in recent times, have been like a popularity contest, and not just for Kobe.

I don't really check basketball-reference to know which position a player was playing the most at. I can point many examples where they got it wrong, depth-charts and such... DJ was only a full-time PG since like his 2nd season with Boston, past his peak already too. At his best (defensively too) he was more of a SG, but you can call him a combo guard.

Most would agree that Dennis was the defensive player of the year in 1981 too (would've won it if they had the award, most likely), don't sleep on that.
Plus, he was competing with Moncrief, Cooper, Jordan, Cheeks, Alvin Robertson or TR Dunn for an all-defensive guard spots (that's crazy competition), in a time when they didn't give it out by name - not that he was such a big name either.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Pretty good list. I'd change a few things but with something so subjective, I don't think my list would be any more correct than yours.

What's your opinion on Satch Sanders?

Yea, at some point it all gets pretty subjective.

Tbh, his name totally slipped my mind when making this, Satch can definitely be argued as a top5 defensive PF/SF of all-time.

[T_L_P]

Glove
DJ (consider him more of a PG)
Kidd

Moncrief
Jordan
Dumars

AK47
Pippen
Artest-Bowen

Duncan
Garnett
Rodman

Russell
Wallace
Hakeem

So, pretty similar. Surprised to see no mention of AK? Usually when I think about wing defense I just go for peaks/primes though. Too many guys start to abandon it in later years as they get slower.

EDIT: Doug Christie needs a mention.

[kennethgriffin]

Make your list then... And I don't object against Kobe as a top5 all-time defensive SG, I can't see him above Moncrief, Jordan, Cooper and DJ though.

Yea, I can also say that many selections, in recent times, have been like a popularity contest, and not just for Kobe.

I don't really check basketball-reference to know which position a player was playing the most at. I can point many examples where they got it wrong, depth-charts and such... DJ was only a full-time PG since like his 2nd season with Boston, past his peak already too. At his best (defensively too) he was more of a SG, but you can call him a combo guard.

Most would agree that Dennis was the defensive player of the year in 1981 too (would've won it if they had the award, most likely), don't sleep on that.
Plus, he was competing with Moncrief, Cooper, Jordan, Cheeks, Alvin Robertson or TR Dunn for an all-defensive guard spots (that's crazy competition), in a time when they didn't give it out by name - not that he was such a big name either.


if i needed to slow down prime jordan. i would stick prime kobe on him before anyone else. but thats just my opinion. kobes defense since 2011 hasnt been all there. but in his prime he was the perfect size with just the right lateral quickness+ length to give a guy like MJ problems.

mainly because he was almost like his clone

people discredit kobes defense so much these days. but even jordan in his later years wasnt all that. when kobe was going off for almost 50 in the 1st half vs the wizards. they stuck jerry stackhouse on kobe... for good reason. because jordan didnt wanna get torched

[SouBeachTalents]

if i needed to slow down prime jordan. i would stick prime kobe on him before anyone else. but thats just my opinion. kobes defense since 2011 hasnt been all there. but in his prime he was the perfect size with just the right lateral quickness+ length to give a guy like MJ problems.

mainly because he was almost like his clone

people discredit kobes defense so much these days. but even jordan in his later years wasnt all that. when kobe was going off for almost 50 in the 1st half vs the wizards. they stuck jerry stackhouse on kobe... for good reason. because jordan didnt wanna get torched

Before GP, who on the biggest stage held Jordan to 24 ppg on 37% in the 1996 Finals?

[Micku]

Hmm....good list. How about Alvin Robertson? I never watched him play, but I always hear that he was a great defender in his prime. I need to watch a couple of games of him to see if he can crack the top five of any guard spot tho.

---

But yeah man. Solid list. I can't say I disagree with anything other than after a certain point, ranking them doesn't matter.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Payton
Frazier
Kidd
KC Jones
McMillan

Moncrief
Tony Allen
Cooper
DJ
Iggy

Pippen
Rodman
Artest
AK47
Pressey

Garnett
Duncan
Bobby Jones
Sheed
Oakley or Hayes

Russell
Hakeem
Robinson
Deke
Thurmond or Ewing

[Micku]

Moncrief
Tony Allen
Cooper
DJ
Iggy


Tony Allen is great. One of the best one on one defenders in this era for sure. Probably one of the best I've seen in terms of one on one guard defenders and his plus/minus is great on the defensive end. Even though sometimes he doesn't get the all defensive team (shame), he is usually the best guard defender imo. Iggy is up there too.

It'll be interesting to see other plus/minus stats with DJ in his prime and Cooper. There was a plus/minus stat that somebody that with MJ a while back. His stats were out of this world on the defensive end during the first 3peat. It would interesting to see others.

[IncarceratedBob]

kobe is clearly top 5 at his position, he has a case for top 5 all time. look at the amount of times he was an elite defender (all nba defense selections) its hard to argue. obvi he's not was he once was but in his day he was elite

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Tony Allen is great. One of the best one on one defenders in this era for sure. Probably one of the best I've seen in terms of one on one guard defenders and his plus/minus is great on the defensive end. Even though sometimes he doesn't get the all defensive team (shame), he is usually the best guard defender imo. Iggy is up there too.

It'll be interesting to see other plus/minus stats with DJ in his prime and Cooper. There was a plus/minus stat that somebody that with MJ a while back. His stats were out of this world on the defensive end during the first 3peat. It would interesting to see others.
Agreed. Hes the greatest man defender among guards ever IMO
edited out Bowen cant believe i forgot AK47 he was a full terror on defense everywhere

[DatAsh]

Agreed. Hes the greatest man defender among guards ever IMO
edited out Bowen cant believe i forgot AK47 he was a full terror on defense everywhere

When did you start watching basketball?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

When did you start watching basketball?
92 why?:confusedshrug:

[DatAsh]

92 why?:confusedshrug:

Just curious. :cheers:

[Micku]

kobe is clearly top 5 at his position, he has a case for top 5 all time. look at the amount of times he was an elite defender (all nba defense selections) its hard to argue. obvi he's not was he once was but in his day he was elite

Reading this makes me have a flashback to the 2011 year when he beat Tony Allen and D-Wade for the first All Defensive Team. That just not right. He wasn't better than either of them that year. The Lakers were better defensively with Kobe off that floor that year. Bah.

But yeah, Kobe was elite back in the day. 2000 was his best defensive year imo. 2001 was good to if I can recall.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Just curious. :cheers:
OK:lol :lol
how about u?

[DatAsh]

OK:lol :lol
how about u?

96

[SHAQisGOAT]

Before GP, who on the biggest stage held Jordan to 24 ppg on 37% in the 1996 Finals?

Yea, to guard Jordan I'd pick either Payton or Moncrief

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018



Hmm....good list. How about Alvin Robertson? I never watched him play, but I always hear that he was a great defender in his prime. I need to watch a couple of games of him to see if he can crack the top five of any guard spot tho.

---

But yeah man. Solid list. I can't say I disagree with anything other than after a certain point, ranking them doesn't matter.

I guess Alvin can also be argued as a top5 defensive SG of all-time.
He was a great overall defensive player but gambled way too much, plus he had few prime years (due to injuries), so I wouldn't have him in my top5. He was a terrific off-ball defender, beast at creating TO's but, like I've said, he gambled too much for that and wasn't on the same level as an on-ball defender as players like Cooper, Moncrief, so on...




Tony Allen is great. One of the best one on one defenders in this era for sure. Probably one of the best I've seen in terms of one on one guard defenders and his plus/minus is great on the defensive end. Even though sometimes he doesn't get the all defensive team (shame), he is usually the best guard defender imo. Iggy is up there too.

It'll be interesting to see other plus/minus stats with DJ in his prime and Cooper. There was a plus/minus stat that somebody that with MJ a while back. His stats were out of this world on the defensive end during the first 3peat. It would interesting to see others.

Yea, Tony's an amazing defender too, can definitely be argued as a top5 defensive SG ever.