The Kyrie Irving Problem (TrueHoopTV)

[ArbitraryWater]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/71126/the-kyrie-irving-problem

Both Irving and Waiters have great Trade Potential, and you could get alot more suitable assets to fit the team (and building around James obv.).

Edit: Defense and Coach/System are the main issues.

[3ball]

spurs basketball wins - ball movement to get 3-point shots and open looks - all the teams are doing it.

so at kyrie's position, you don't need what he does with the 1-on-1 ability - instead, you just need someone fast to get the ball from point A to point B - patty mills will do just fine.

however, 1-on-1 still works in today's game - indeed, kyrie can get 30 doing that - but the spacing has made 1-on-1 a less attractive option than ball movement, so your team won't WIN with kyrie going 1-on-1 against teams that are moving the ball better.

with lebron being the point guard and unable to play off-ball, kyrie needs to be a spot-up shooter and a facilitator, like a patty mills... which is a little bit of a shame, because that means winning basketball in today's game doesn't allow us to see as much of kyrie's great 1-on-1 ability.

in previous eras when the lack of spacing prevented ball movement from being as effective as it is today, kyrie's 1-on-1 skill was much more needed and could more easily be a part of a winning basketball team.... but not today.

[RedBlackAttack]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/71126/the-kyrie-irving-problem

Both Irving and Waiters have great Trade Potential, and you could get alot more suitable assets to fit the team (and building around James obv.).

Edit: Defense and Coach/System are the main issues.
Ugh.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ugh.

I know you like him and have been defending him since forever... But at one point you need to face reality.

Irving isn't a guy to make much of a difference on contending teams... Too selfish and too low IQ.

Factually Isaiah Thomas was better these last 2 years.

[LoneyROY7]

How about putting the onus on LeBron for once, instead of his teammates?

[RedBlackAttack]

I know you like him and have been defending him since forever... But at one point you need to face reality.

Irving isn't a guy to make much of a difference on contending teams... Too selfish and too low IQ.

Factually Isaiah Thomas was better these last 2 years.
Five games.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's not about five games or this season...

It's about Irving as a player....

About a dozen PG's could replace his scoring numbers on those Cleveland lottery team... They don't translate to W's.

Put him on a title contender, the perfect offensive team, the Spurs.... They'd get worse and you know it.

His iso tendencies wouldn't mesh at all... Pop would bench him. Pop hates AAU ballers.

LoneyRoy: ****ing what? Believe me, LeBron won't be the reason and downfall of this team... Bring those reactions to the trolls, I'm being serious and also not having an outlandish opinion at all. It's just logical.

[Blue&Orange]

LeExcuses
LeExcuses
LeExcuses
LeExcuses
LeExcuses
LeExcuses
LeExcuses

[hawksdogsbraves]

Korver for Waiters, make it happen Ferr.... er... Coach Bud.

[DMAVS41]

It's not about five games or this season...

It's about Irving as a player....

About a dozen PG's could replace his scoring numbers on those Cleveland lottery team... They don't translate to W's.

Put him on a title contender, the perfect offensive team, the Spurs.... They'd get worse and you know it.

His iso tendencies wouldn't mesh at all... Pop would bench him. Pop hates AAU ballers.

LoneyRoy: ****ing what? Believe me, LeBron won't be the reason and downfall of this team... Bring those reactions to the trolls, I'm being serious and also not having an outlandish opinion at all. It's just logical.

You don't trade Irving. Would make no sense and you'd never get equal value back. They have to just make that work. A guy like Waiters? A trade could make sense. He's best to be a spark plug 25 minute a game guy off the bench...and he might demand too much money vs. his actual value to the team.

But Irving, Lebron, and Love are there to stay and trading one of them would be stupid as equal value could not be had. What the Cavs have to do is figure out what they are going to do with Thompson and Waiters...and then figure out a way to get a strong defensive center. Cough...should already have Dieng...Cough...

I still say a move for a guy like Larry Sanders would make a lot of sense. Especially given he's now on a great contract given the rising cap with all the now money. 4 years 44 million for Sanders is a steal.

[Mass Debator]

The loyalty of the Cavs if they trade Kyrie :facepalm
I do really wish they would though. Kyrie for Napier/Cole+Picks :cheers::banana:

[ArbitraryWater]

You don't trade Irving. Would make no sense and you'd never get equal value back. They have to just make that work. A guy like Waiters? A trade could make sense. He's best to be a spark plug 25 minute a game guy off the bench...and he might demand too much money vs. his actual value to the team.

But Irving, Lebron, and Love are there to stay and trading one of them would be stupid as equal value could not be had. What the Cavs have to do is figure out what they are going to do with Thompson and Waiters...and then figure out a way to get a strong defensive center. Cough...should already have Dieng...Cough...

I still say a move for a guy like Larry Sanders would make a lot of sense. Especially given he's now on a great contract given the rising cap with all the now money. 4 years 44 million for Sanders is a steal.

Why not Irving? He has value... You could get a solid big that protects the rim. An area where this teem needs help instead of 1 on 1 low % scoring.

[DMAVS41]

Why not Irving? He has value... You could get a solid big that protects the rim. An area where this teem needs help instead of 1 on 1 low % scoring.

Tell me the trade.

Tell me who you are getting that will provide equal value to Irving over the next 5 years.

Like I said above...Kyrie, Lebron, and Love are fine...what you need is a defensive minded sg that can shoot 3's and a center. Avery Bradley would be an ideal sg next to Kyrie and Lebron...and then I think Sanders would be a great fit.

If I was running the Cavs...I'd be calling both the Celtics and Bucks trying to work something out. Waiters and a first rounder for Bradley? Do the Celtics say no? Thompson and filler and a first rounder for Middelton/Sanders? Do the Bucks say no?

Not sure, but those are the guys I'd target. Or similar players.

[Doranku]

Damn 5 games in and Bran stans like OP already have TWO scapegoats. :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Tell me the trade.

Tell me who you are getting that will provide equal value to Irving over the next 5 years.

Better suited: Asik, Sanders, Noah, Valanciunas..Noah won't ever happen.

Marc Gasol is too much for any combination of Irving/Waiters and a pick I guess.

Irving isn't goog defensively.. Neither is Love.

[DMAVS41]

Better suited: Asik, Sanders, Noah, Valanciunas..Noah won't ever happen.

Marc Gasol is too much for any combination of Irving/Waiters and a pick I guess.

Irving isn't goog defensively.. Neither is Love.

No. I'm asking you what guys you could get for Irving that would make sense in a trade.

You'd never trade Irving for Asik or Sanders or Val...Irving is just flat out a more valuable player than those guys.

You can't get Marc Gasol in a trade or Howard...so they are off the table.

So the question remains. Come up with a trade you'd actually pull the trigger on.

I mean...Holiday/Asik for Irving is probably as close as you are going to get to equal value...and that trade couldn't happen because the money wouldn't work.

Like I said...if the Cavs were to make a move (they don't need to at all), but if they were...you'd look to move Thompson and Waiters and some picks to get guys in the mold of Bradley and Sanders.

[andremiller07]

But but but he won the FIBA mvp and All Star game MVP :roll: :roll: :roll: