Emmanuel Mudiay is dominating China. Number one pick next year?

[Cocaine80s]

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/09/guangdong-emmanuel-mudiay-posts-a-triple-double-in-chinese-pro-outing-video/

Triple double in his 4th game: 22/13/11.

had 29/9/7/4 his second game. He didnt do that good in his first game though.

[Andrew Wiggins]

he only had 10 points in his third game

i've been monitoring his progress here http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358155&page=2

[Cocaine80s]

he only had 10 points in his third game

i've been monitoring his progress here http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358155&page=2
ooops meant 4th game

[Nash]

dominates, gets to play and develop against much better opposition and makes guaranteed millions out of it..

why should players go to college for free and play against scrubs now again?

and lol at mandatory 2 years in college if that goes through. NCAA will die.

[Real Men Wear Green]

dominates, gets to play and develop against much better oppositionIt's China, not Euroleague. Chinese basketball doesn't seem to be as good as NCAA D1 with the way we see NBA players dominate. JR Smith scored 60. The NBA is no longer interested in Steph Marbury but he's one of the greatest players they've ever seen over there.


and lol at mandatory 2 years in college if that goes through. NCAA will die.No because the NCAA doesn't just rely on NBA talent for it's popularity. NCAA sports are driven by school fanbases and they will remain loyal no matter what because it's their school. It might cost NCAA a little talent but we've seen very few teenage phenoms willing to leave the country for the sake of an earlier payday.

[Cocaine80s]

It's China, not Euroleague. Chinese basketball doesn't seem to be as good as NCAA D1 with the way we see NBA players dominate. JR Smith scored 60. The NBA is no longer interested in Steph Marbury but he's one of the greatest players they've ever seen over there.

No because the NCAA doesn't just rely on NBA talent for it's popularity. NCAA sports are driven by school fanbases and they will remain loyal no matter what because it's their school. It might cost NCAA a little talent but we've seen very few teenage phenoms willing to leave the country for the sake of an earlier payday.
I think JR could score 60 in college too

[Nash]

It's China, not Euroleague. Chinese basketball doesn't seem to be as good as NCAA D1 with the way we see NBA players dominate. JR Smith scored 60. The NBA is no longer interested in Steph Marbury but he's one of the greatest players they've ever seen over there.

No because the NCAA doesn't just rely on NBA talent for it's popularity. NCAA sports are driven by school fanbases and they will remain loyal no matter what because it's their school. It might cost NCAA a little talent but we've seen very few teenage phenoms willing to leave the country for the sake of an earlier payday.
majority of the player these future nba players face don't even continue with basketball let alone become pros in china. being a professional basketball player is better for your development than playing against amateurs. Even if its China. He's still going up against a lot of NBA players.

at the end of the day, if players are forced to stay in college for 2 years for free, risk injury at any time while they got foreign teams offering them guaranteed millions. They will leave.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think JR could score 60 in college too
If he was in the ACC, SEC, PAC-10 or one of the other elite coferences it would be highly unlikely. In China they don't have anyone who can come close to matching him as a combo of athletic ability and size and his team will just let the vastly superior NBA talent do whatever he wants because his talent advantage is so extreme he can pretty much do as he pleases and it will be effective. JR Smith is still going to be more talented and better skilled in the NCAA but the NCAA will at least have some guys that can make the NBA one day and have as much talent as he does, in a few special cases even more talent. His own team would feature him but star NCAA talents aren't featured to the extent Smith was in China where he averaged 35 points. By comparison, Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins were in the high teens last season.

[Real Men Wear Green]

majority of the player these future nba players face don't even continue with basketball let alone become pros in china. being a professional basketball player is better for your development than playing against amateurs. Even if its China. He's still going up against a lot of NBA players.I would bet money that the SEC alone has more future pros than all of China. Kentucky alone might even have more NBA talent. Being a pro is better for your wallet and may lead to more off-court maturity but everyone knows the quality of Chinese basketball is comparatively low. They still have only produced one NBA guard that I can think of, Sun Yue, and I'm not sure he's actually gotten any PT.


at the end of the day, if players are forced to stay in college for 2 years for free, risk injury at any time while they got foreign teams offering them guaranteed millions. They will leave.
Mature adults may well choose to leave but remember that we're talking about kids that figure they'll make the NBA one day regardless. Jennings, Mudiay, and maybe one or two others have chosen professional ball overseas over the NCAA. Vs. everyone else that is picking college. Spending a year or more in another country is a big decision that is taking teenagers well out of their comfort zone. That decision isn't for many.

[Cocaine80s]

If he was in the ACC, SEC, PAC-10 or one of the other elite coferences it would be highly unlikely. In China they don't have anyone who can come close to matching him as a combo of athletic ability and size and his team will just let the vastly superior NBA talent do whatever he wants because his talent advantage is so extreme he can pretty much do as he pleases and it will be effective. JR Smith is still going to be more talented and better skilled in the NCAA but the NCAA will at least have some guys that can make the NBA one day and have as much talent as he does, in a few special cases even more talent. His own team would feature him but star NCAA talents aren't featured to the extent Smith was in China where he averaged 35 points. By comparison, Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins were in the high teens last season.
How many future nba players do you see in the pac 12?
Oregon alone I see has none right now

[Real Men Wear Green]

How many future nba players do you see in the pac 10?
Oregon alone I see has none right now
I'm not sure about the PAC 10 but if he played for, say, UCLA? Over the course of a season he's going to face more NBA talent than he would in China. Especially if they make the tournament.

[outbreak]

I would bet money that the SEC alone has more future pros than all of China. Kentucky alone might even have more NBA talent. Being a pro is better for your wallet and may lead to more off-court maturity but everyone knows the quality of Chinese basketball is comparatively low. They still have only produced one NBA guard that I can think of, Sun Yue, and I'm not sure he's actually gotten any PT.


Mature adults may well choose to leave but remember that we're talking about kids that figure they'll make the NBA one day regardless. Jennings, Mudiay, and maybe one or two others have chosen professional ball overseas over the NCAA. Vs. everyone else that is picking college. Spending a year or more in another country is a big decision that is taking teenagers well out of their comfort zone. That decision isn't for many.

You also hear bad stories out of the chinese league at times too, opponents being overly physical, international players not getting proper medical attention and being forced to play through injuries, arenas full of smoke and oppressive heat. If someone knows they are going to the NBA in a year anyway a lot of kids would choose college as that's a once in a life time experience for them and they get to stay in their own country. There's a large number of international kids who go to US colleges for basketball rather than playing in their domestic competitions because that's a goal for a lot of players growing up. You also get college level coaching and start making connections in the NBA world. For some it may work out well but it's not a case of the NCAA being in any trouble.

[mattvNJ]

I would bet money that the SEC alone has more future pros than all of China. Kentucky alone might even have more NBA talent. Being a pro is better for your wallet and may lead to more off-court maturity but everyone knows the quality of Chinese basketball is comparatively low. They still have only produced one NBA guard that I can think of, Sun Yue, and I'm not sure he's actually gotten any PT.


Mature adults may well choose to leave but remember that we're talking about kids that figure they'll make the NBA one day regardless. Jennings, Mudiay, and maybe one or two others have chosen professional ball overseas over the NCAA. Vs. everyone else that is picking college. Spending a year or more in another country is a big decision that is taking teenagers well out of their comfort zone. That decision isn't for many.

good post. agreed on all accounts. I mean hes getting paid, but i feel like he is facing lesser comp. But whatever unforseen future injuries may kill his earning power later on. Do what ya gotta do i say

[Cocaine80s]

I'm not sure about the PAC 10 but if he played for, say, UCLA? Over the course of a season he's going to face more NBA talent than he would in China. Especially if they make the tournament.
Yea but he can still drop 60 on a scrub team. Not all teams in China are trash, there's still some former nba players there

[mattvNJ]

My boy Quincy Douby over in china putting in work... sadly only decent NBA(ex obviously) player from my school RU

[Nash]

Let's stop acting like playing in the NBA is a regular job. It's not, you don't need college like an accountant would.

On one hand, you got guaranteed millions and chance to play against pros.

On the other hand, you get to play 2 years for free going up against some scrub from West Virginia who in all likelihood won't go pro, NBA or China.

You make the choice.

NBA scouts will find talent wherever you are, NCAA or division 2 in Brazil like Caboclo. There is no incentive to stay in college if you got an employer willing to pay you millions.

[sammichoffate]

Let's stop acting like playing in the NBA is a regular job. It's not, you don't need college like an accountant would.

On one hand, you got guaranteed millions and chance to play against pros.

On the other hand, you get to play 2 years for free going up against some scrub from West Virginia who in all likelihood won't go pro, NBA or China.

You make the choice.

NBA scouts will find talent wherever you are, NCAA or division 2 in Brazil like Caboclo. There is no incentive to stay in college if you got an employer willing to pay you millions.Not everyone in college stays the few years, some players like to stay all 4 because it's their choice to. Tim Duncan and Damian Lillard stayed because they wanted to, and it paid off. I do agree that the NCAA does pimp off of student-athletes though, that NC scandal made me sick to my stomach when I saw it :facepalm

[Andrew Wiggins]

majority of the player these future nba players face don't even continue with basketball let alone become pros in china. being a professional basketball player is better for your development than playing against amateurs. Even if its China. He's still going up against a lot of NBA players.

at the end of the day, if players are forced to stay in college for 2 years for free, risk injury at any time while they got foreign teams offering them guaranteed millions. They will leave.

there's foreign player limits in china. you can only have 2 americans on your team and there's minutes restrictions. if there weren't, every team would be stocked with americans and europeans.

75% of the chinese players in the league wouldn't play for a d1 team.

[Cocaine80s]

there's foreign player limits in china. you can only have 2 americans on your team and there's minutes restrictions. if there weren't, every team would be stocked with americans and europeans.

75% of the chinese players in the league wouldn't play for a d1 team.
damn are they really that bad?

brb moving to china to play pro ball

[kenuffff]

depends on the player, lebron or kobe could've done well without college no matter they went, im not sure how lebron learned his fundamentals so well, it may have been off season coaching, but i think a lot of players definitely benefit from learning from great college coaches, learning to play on a big stage, and team basketball, learning to win, going to china to play isn't going to afford you any of that.

[Andrew Wiggins]

damn are they really that bad?

brb moving to china to play pro ball

put it this way, there's this 7'3" kid named max zhang who averaged 2 points per game in the ncaa and now averages a double-double in the cba

[3ball]

mudiay is one of the smoothest ball-handlers at his size i've ever seen

[outbreak]

https://sports.vice.com/article/the-chinese-basketball-association-is-****ed-up

The australian teams have beaten CBA teams running their benches and the australian league is terrible.

[tgan3]

Sorry, but usually they let the imports guard the other imports. Thus he will be going up against euro-league/NBA caliber players often. It is still a higher level then D1 college in that sense. The high scores are because the CBA is an offensive league, they don't focus much on defense

[Andrew Wiggins]

Sorry, but usually they let the imports guard the other imports. Thus he will be going up against euro-league/NBA caliber players often. It is still a higher level then D1 college in that sense. The high scores are because the CBA is an offensive league, they don't focus much on defense

lol no it's not, because there's much more than 1 on 1 matchups in basketball. help defense in the league is nonexistant half the time. there's rarely a structure or system that the team runs on offense. defense is always man to man. the non import big men are soft and can get bodied up by guards. rebounding is terrible and so on. d1 basketball is a higher level of play for the most part

[outbreak]

Sorry, but usually they let the imports guard the other imports. Thus he will be going up against euro-league/NBA caliber players often. It is still a higher level then D1 college in that sense. The high scores are because the CBA is an offensive league, they don't focus much on defense

That's why below average american players drop 50-70 point games over there....

[kshutts1]

If he was in the ACC, SEC, PAC-10 or one of the other elite coferences it would be highly unlikely. In China they don't have anyone who can come close to matching him as a combo of athletic ability and size and his team will just let the vastly superior NBA talent do whatever he wants because his talent advantage is so extreme he can pretty much do as he pleases and it will be effective. JR Smith is still going to be more talented and better skilled in the NCAA but the NCAA will at least have some guys that can make the NBA one day and have as much talent as he does, in a few special cases even more talent. His own team would feature him but star NCAA talents aren't featured to the extent Smith was in China where he averaged 35 points. By comparison, Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins were in the high teens last season.
I know JR has a bad rap, but he can drop 40 on an NBA team. You're trying to say, with a straight face, that he wouldn't be able to drop 60 on a college team? Come on, man. Not AVERAGE 60, but score 60.

[Andrew Wiggins]

I know JR has a bad rap, but he can drop 40 on an NBA team. You're trying to say, with a straight face, that he wouldn't be able to drop 60 on a college team? Come on, man. Not AVERAGE 60, but score 60.

he wouldn't. there's less overall talent on the court in college so they'd double team him every time he touched the ball

[Real Men Wear Green]

I know JR has a bad rap, but he can drop 40 on an NBA team. You're trying to say, with a straight face, that he wouldn't be able to drop 60 on a college team? Come on, man. Not AVERAGE 60, but score 60.
In a 40 minute college game he'd need to take 40+ shots while shooting a very high percentage and/or getting a ton of free throws. When's the last time that happened in a major conference game? Kevin Durant never did it, Doug McDermott didn't do it, Melo didn't do it, Steph Curry didn't do it, and we can go on. D2 or D3 with a ridiculous offense that was only about him, on a hot night Smith could get 60. But not at a serious D1 school.

[kshutts1]

In a 40 minute college game he'd need to take 40+ shots while shooting a very high percentage and/or getting a ton of free throws. When's the last time that happened in a major conference game? Kevin Durant never did it, Doug McDermott didn't do it, Melo didn't do it, Steph Curry didn't do it, and we can go on. D2 or D3 with a ridiculous offense that was only about him, on a hot night Smith could get 60. But not at a serious D1 school.
Those guys never did it as college players. Smith is a seasoned pro. Yes, he'd do it.

Edit: also not saying he would average that, or do it regularly. But the game when he got hot? Yes.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Those guys never did it as college players. Smith is a seasoned pro. Yes, he'd do it.
Rookie Melo, Curry and KD were all better players and scorers than JR Smith ever was. You can think he could go off for 60 if you want but it's a fact that there are a lot of great college players that not only never did it but never came close to doing it. Many of whom went on to NBA greatness. But some part-time starting low basketball IQ chucker will? No, he won't.

[Lebron23]

I think he made the right decision. In China he can gain some confidence and experience by playing against former NBA players.

[Lebron23]

I think he's going to be a better pro than Wiggins. He has that alpha male, swagger looking aura.

[Sakkreth]

Chineese league is weird place, every team has like 3 players that do everything for their team so their stats are through the roof and other players on the team are mostly chinese.

[IGOTGAME]

Rookie Melo, Curry and KD were all better players and scorers than JR Smith ever was. You can think he could go off for 60 if you want but it's a fact that there are a lot of great college players that not only never did it but never came close to doing it. Many of whom went on to NBA greatness. But some part-time starting low basketball IQ chucker will? No, he won't.

the equivalent wouldn't be 60 but that amount compensated for by the fewer minutes in the college game and the fact that its played in halves.

JR could score 50 in a college game. The line is too easy of a shot for him and he has no conscience. I could see him 15-16 threes in a game. Just my opinion after watching his game develop from age 10-now. Even a 18 year old JR likely has a 40+ point game.

oh, and in D3 on a team that played very uptempo like Grinnell he would prob have a game close to 100. He is that good of a streak shooter and no one would be able to really contest his shot.

[oarabbus]

the equivalent wouldn't be 60 but that amount compensated for by the fewer minutes in the college game and the fact that its played in halves.

JR could score 50 in a college game. The line is too easy of a shot for him and he has no conscience. I could see him 15-16 threes in a game. Just my opinion after watching his game develop from age 10-now. Even a 18 year old JR likely has a 40+ point game.

oh, and in D3 on a team that played very uptempo like Grinnell he would prob have a game close to 100. He is that good of a streak shooter and no one would be able to really contest his shot.


That one guy scored almost 140 points in the Grinnell offense. Vs a garbage scrub D3 team, but still.

I have a really, really difficult time believing that current JR Smith, given a neon-green light on a D1 college team, would not be able to put up a 50 or 60 point game ONCE during the season. And from a shorter 3pt line no less.

Am I expected to believe that Melo could drop 62 on the Bobcats, but wouldn't be able to drop 62 on a college team? Even with the reduced play time, D1 zone defense is that much better at preventing scoring than NBA defenses?

[Real Men Wear Green]

If Smith was allowed to just shoot every time he touched the ball on a team that gave no thought to team concepts? Ok, he could go off on some game. But serious teams, like the ones in major D1 basketball, have goals beyond getting one player as many points as possible. If a guy like Carmelo Anthony or Doug McDermott is never able to put up 60 or even 50 why is some coach going to hurt his own team by telling Smith to go out there and take 35+ shots every game instead of running an offense that is actually conducive to winning? Almost every coach Smith has ever had in the NBA has put him on some kind of leash. In the NBA he hasn't even gotten to start half the time. But all of a sudden he gets this ridiculous green light, why?

[Cocaine80s]

If Smith was allowed to just shoot every time he touched the ball on a team that gave no thought to team concepts? Ok, he could go off on some game. But serious teams, like the ones in major D1 basketball, have goals beyond getting one player as many points as possible. If a guy like Carmelo Anthony or Doug McDermott is never able to put up 60 or even 50 why is some coach going to hurt his own team by telling Smith to go out there and take 35+ shots every game instead of running an offense that is actually conducive to winning? Almost every coach Smith has ever had in the NBA has put him on some kind of leash. In the NBA he hasn't even gotten to start half the time. But all of a sudden he gets this ridiculous green light, why?
If JR could score 43 off the bench in the NBA then he could definitely drop 50 in college as a starter.

[oarabbus]

If Smith was allowed to just shoot every time he touched the ball on a team that gave no thought to team concepts? Ok, he could go off on some game. But serious teams, like the ones in major D1 basketball, have goals beyond getting one player as many points as possible. If a guy like Carmelo Anthony or Doug McDermott is never able to put up 60 or even 50 why is some coach going to hurt his own team by telling Smith to go out there and take 35+ shots every game instead of running an offense that is actually conducive to winning? Almost every coach Smith has ever had in the NBA has put him on some kind of leash. In the NBA he hasn't even gotten to start half the time. But all of a sudden he gets this ridiculous green light, why?

Carmelo in college isn't Carmelo now, though. 60 points is a very high bar, especially with the shorter college game. But you don't think a modern Carmelo could score 50 during a college season against non-crap D1 teams, and win that game? Obviously the offense would be built 100% around Melo.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Carmelo in college isn't Carmelo now, though. 60 points is a very high bar, especially with the shorter college game. But you don't think a modern Carmelo could score 50 during a college season against non-crap D1 teams, and win that game? Obviously the offense would be built 100% around Melo.
Carmel in college is still a better player and scorer than Smith has ever been, so if he doesn't do it in college then why does Smith? When's the last time we saw 50 in the ACC? SEC? NCAA d1 overall? It's extremely rare and Smith isn't that special of a player.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If JR could score 43 off the bench in the NBA then he could definitely drop 50 in college as a starter.
That's one time in what, 600+ games?

[oarabbus]

Carmel in college is still a better player and scorer than Smith has ever been, so if he doesn't do it in college then why does Smith? When's the last time we saw 50 in the ACC? SEC? NCAA d1 overall? It's extremely rare and Smith isn't that special of a player.

I see where you're coming from. But how about if LeBron decided to go to college for two years? Would he also not be able to drop 50?

There's a disconnect between the statement that no one has dropped 50+ in the conferences in question (which is true) and the implied suggestion that therefore it CANNOT be done, using an NBA player transplanted onto a D1 team (which I am not sure about).

[Cocaine80s]

That's one time in what, 600+ games?
So you really think the chance of him scoring 50 in college is 0%?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I see where you're coming from. But how about if LeBron decided to go to college for two years? Would he also not be able to drop 50?

There's a disconnect between the statement that no one has dropped 50+ in the conferences in question (which is true) and the implied suggestion that therefore it CANNOT be done, using an NBA player transplanted onto a D1 team (which I am not sure about).
James as a player is actually the prime example of a player that can do certain things but doesn't because the circumstances aren't right. He could have had a number of scoring titles if that was his focus but he likes passing and doesn't take over the fourth quarter as a scorer the way we expect a player of his caliber to. I actually doubt he gets 50 because the few games he would be on that kind of pace are probably blowout wins and he gets rested early.

If he went to college for a few seasons Kobe might have done it. Ditto Durant.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So you really think the chance of him scoring 50 in college is 0%?
No. More like 3.872.

[Cocaine80s]

No. More like 3.872.
How do you explain Jimmer dropping 52 then?

[Real Men Wear Green]

How do you explain Jimmer dropping 52 then?
I didn't say it never happens. It's just very rare. That's why we give the 3.872.

[Cocaine80s]

I didn't say it never happens. It's just very rare. That's why we give the 3.872.
:kobe:

[Timmy D for MVP]

China is not the place for a young athlete to go develop into a better player and person. You can learn how to live out there but you aren't necessarily going to mature as a player. His maturation is going to come from just getting older. It's the place for athletes to get paid. His playing in China should have no real effect on his draft status imo unless it comes out that he is having real negative output, and is acting in a manner that doesn't show a discipline toward the game.

He was already a name in discussion for the top pick so why not? If a few of the guys in the NCAA look worse than we anticipated Mudiay might find himself walking to the stage first.

[Genaro]

I loved his decision. I still don't agree with the 1 mandatory year in the NCAA. If a player thinks he's ready for the NBA and NBA teams want him he should be able to go. This one year in the NCAA when they could be already earning money is ridiculous and only legitimated by financial interests.

And about JR and 60 in the NCAA, you mean to tell me that a 26 year old chucker wouldn't score 60 with a shorter 3pt line between a bunch of kids? Please.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I loved his decision. I still don't agree with the 1 mandatory year in the NCAA. If a player thinks he's ready for the NBA and NBA teams want him he should be able to go. This one year in the NCAA when they could be already earning money is ridiculous and only legitimated by financial interests.

And about JR and 60 in the NCAA, you mean to tell me that a 26 year old chucker wouldn't score 60 with a shorter 3pt line between a bunch of kids? Please.

I think they should use something like the baseball rule. You can declare yourself eligible, but once you do you forfeit your NCAA status. If you don't catch on with a team then that's it.

If you do declare yourself for the NCAA you cannot leave until after your sophomore year.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I loved his decision. I still don't agree with the 1 mandatory year in the NCAA. If a player thinks he's ready for the NBA and NBA teams want him he should be able to go. This one year in the NCAA when they could be already earning money is ridiculous and only legitimated by financial interests.

And about JR and 60 in the NCAA, you mean to tell me that a 26 year old chucker wouldn't score 60 with a shorter 3pt line between a bunch of kids? Please.
Barely anyone has scored over 50 and almost no one has done 60. Both lists are trivia answers. After digging one poster found a game by Fredette from three years ago. Several players superior too Smith haven't done it. You think this guy ous a better scorer than Melo was at Syracuse? Jordan didn't do it. Barkley didn't do it. Durant didn't. Smith does simply because he had no conscience?

[Burgz V2]

impressive considering that assists are much harder to come by under FIBA rules. a good sign that this guy can really break defenses down.

[Nash]

I loved his decision. I still don't agree with the 1 mandatory year in the NCAA. If a player thinks he's ready for the NBA and NBA teams want him he should be able to go. This one year in the NCAA when they could be already earning money is ridiculous and only legitimated by financial interests.

And about JR and 60 in the NCAA, you mean to tell me that a 26 year old chucker wouldn't score 60 with a shorter 3pt line between a bunch of kids? Please.
Exactly, it is the scouts job to notice the potential that a player has.

Mudiay will play in China until March, then return to the states with millions in his bank account. All while getting to show himself against some NBA level players.

Honestly, sounds like a great gig to me.

[Genaro]

I think they should use something like the baseball rule. You can declare yourself eligible, but once you do you forfeit your NCAA status. If you don't catch on with a team then that's it.

If you do declare yourself for the NCAA you cannot leave until after your sophomore year.
I agree with the first part but don't agree with the second because then you would have a lot of guys who are not NBA ready and would be willing to go one and done but don't want to stay 2 years in college, coming to the league unprepared.


Barely anyone has scored over 50 and almost no one has done 60. Both lists are trivia answers. After digging one poster found a game by Fredette from three years ago. Several players superior too Smith haven't done it. You think this guy ous a better scorer than Melo was at Syracuse? Jordan didn't do it. Barkley didn't do it. Durant didn't. Smith does simply because he had no conscience?
You're talking about 18 year old boys, I'm talking about a full grown man with several years in the pros.
And besides I was talking about a situation where JR would be trying to score as many points as he wants (as in China) and ignoring the other guys on his team.

[IGOTGAME]

how good is this guy?

[rhowen4]

how good is this guy?
can CLE get him?

[IGOTGAME]

can CLE get him?

not unless they trade for a top 5 pick. He is a draft prospect.

[Phenith]

I would bet money that the SEC alone has more future pros than all of China. Kentucky alone might even have more NBA talent. Being a pro is better for your wallet and may lead to more off-court maturity but everyone knows the quality of Chinese basketball is comparatively low. They still have only produced one NBA guard that I can think of, Sun Yue, and I'm not sure he's actually gotten any PT.


Mature adults may well choose to leave but remember that we're talking about kids that figure they'll make the NBA one day regardless. Jennings, Mudiay, and maybe one or two others have chosen professional ball overseas over the NCAA. Vs. everyone else that is picking college. Spending a year or more in another country is a big decision that is taking teenagers well out of their comfort zone. That decision isn't for many.

On the flip side, NBA teams would value a players that goes out of their comfort zone and succeeds. Considering only a few players have done it and, they seem to be trending towards being good decisions, it isn't far fetched to see it happen more and more even without a rule change. Players just needed to see a few people go over there and play well right out of high school for it to really open up as a viable option to not only establish your draft stock, but make lots of money playing against other pros while doing it.

[Lebron23]

how good is this guy?


Very Good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTD8-hybNtI

[GOBB]

how good is this guy?

Check out draftexpress.com on their home page they have a video of his stint in China. Really broke down his game good and bad

[ralph_i_el]

I know JR has a bad rap, but he can drop 40 on an NBA team. You're trying to say, with a straight face, that he wouldn't be able to drop 60 on a college team? Come on, man. Not AVERAGE 60, but score 60.

shorter game, better athletes than in China.
NCAA has worse passing and floor spacing than the NBA, so it would be easier to double him and harder for him to get easy buckets.

We've seen plenty of great athletes come to the NBA and immediately put up stats right around (or better) than what they did in the NCAA, because playing WITH good players can help you just as much as playing AGAINST good players can hold you down.

I doubt JR could score 60 in the NCAA. Maybe against a team of small white guys who played run-and-gun, if he kept jacking 3's from the short line, but it's not likely imo

[IGOTGAME]

Check out draftexpress.com on their home page they have a video of his stint in China. Really broke down his game good and bad

good find. I gotta see more of the other prospects but Id still Okafor over him. Hope he can fix his jumpshot tho.

[beastee]

He reminds me of D wade in his ability to drive and then hang in the air as long as needed to get the best shot possible. His court vision is much more like a PG though. He will need to be a ball dominant player, so somewhere like the 76ers would be a perfect fit with their bigs. And if he misses some of those in close, Embiid and Noel would mop that stuff up.

Pretty impressive looking player. He may need to get some more rise on his drives though, NBA players are not going to let him get some of those low shots off. Hope he pans out.

[ralph_i_el]

I know this may come off as ignorant/racist, but are we sure this Mudiay kid was born in 96? He looks JACKED.

I'm always suspicious of prospects who immigrate from Africa or other places with less stringent record keeping. Imagine the motivation for telling folks he's 18 instead of say, 22.

[GOBB]

I know this may come off as ignorant/racist, but are we sure this Mudiay kid was born in 96? He looks JACKED.

I'm always suspicious of prospects who immigrate from Africa or other places with less stringent record keeping. Imagine the motivation for telling folks he's 18 instead of say, 22.

Explain Stanley Johnson then. He's jacked too. If you are concerned about his true age that is one thing. But him being jacked really doesn't give someone much of a reason to believe it is true. Plenty of high school kids are jacked.

Another is the kid from Kansas Cliff Alexander. Jacked and looks 28 :oldlol:

[outbreak]

I know this may come off as ignorant/racist, but are we sure this Mudiay kid was born in 96? He looks JACKED.

I'm always suspicious of prospects who immigrate from Africa or other places with less stringent record keeping. Imagine the motivation for telling folks he's 18 instead of say, 22.
Doesn't have to sound racist. I've worked with a number of immigrants from areas near where Mudiay is from and some of those regions don't keep accurate birth dates, my works database was full of people who's birthday was listed as 1/1/ and then whatever year they guessed they were born. Doesn't mean any one is trying to do anything shifty and at the end of the day by the time a player reaches college age I don't think a year or two makes a huge difference, It's more of something to keep in mind when a 14-15 year old big is being hyped where it may just be age that's giving him an advantage.

[Real Men Wear Green]

On the flip side, NBA teams would value a players that goes out of their comfort zone and succeeds. Considering only a few players have done it and, they seem to be trending towards being good decisions, it isn't far fetched to see it happen more and more even without a rule change. Players just needed to see a few people go over there and play well right out of high school for it to really open up as a viable option to not only establish your draft stock, but make lots of money playing against other pros while doing it.
Has anyone in the NBA other than Jennings done this? Not nearly enough examples to know how the NBA feels about kids going from HS to one year of pro bal and then returning. Jennings was drafted and he belongs at the NBA level but hasn't stood out other than 50-something game he had as a rookie. If we're basing it on Jennings we can't say that NBA GMs will care either way. And it still isn't much of a trend at all. Is anyone doing it this year? More future pros still go to just one top school like Duke or Kentucky than leaving America for the entirety of Europe and China. Seems we'll see that one rare player go to another country while the overwhelming majority stay here.

[ILLsmak]

Let's stop acting like playing in the NBA is a regular job. It's not, you don't need college like an accountant would.

On one hand, you got guaranteed millions and chance to play against pros.

On the other hand, you get to play 2 years for free going up against some scrub from West Virginia who in all likelihood won't go pro, NBA or China.

You make the choice.

NBA scouts will find talent wherever you are, NCAA or division 2 in Brazil like Caboclo. There is no incentive to stay in college if you got an employer willing to pay you millions.

Dudes get to be celebs in college, not even go to class, pick where they wanna go... or china. Haha. I'm straight on China I dunno about you. On so many levels. The money will come later going to china as an 18 year old could ruin you. It could be good also but it's a big chance.

-Smak

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Is he playing center in China?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Dudes get to be celebs in college, not even go to class, pick where they wanna go... or china. Haha. I'm straight on China I dunno about you. On so many levels. The money will come later going to china as an 18 year old could ruin you. It could be good also but it's a big chance.

-Smak
While I'd have gone to NCAA and just got an insurance policy if I had ever gotten to make this decision I got to admit, 18 year-old me is not thinking "if I get a million dollars right now it will ruin me, I need to mature." And I'd bet that the overwhelming majority of teens wouldn't think that either. We can look back now and think of dumb things we did with money but I know there were times when the bank balance was below zero I would have seen nothing wrong with a few hundred thou.

[outbreak]

Is he playing center in China?
China has a lot of big players don't they? Wasn't there stories of them selectively breeding basketballers to produce taller children who were raised in camps? God that sounds insane writing that but there was a book by an ex basketballer claiming that wasn't there?

[Real Men Wear Green]

China has a lot of big players don't they? Wasn't there stories of them selectively breeding basketballers to produce taller children who were raised in camps? God that sounds insane writing that but there was a book by an ex basketballer claiming that wasn't there?
You are giving a serious response to a dumb joke. Anyway I don't know about any breeding programs but the existense of Yao Ming, Wang Zhi Zhi and the 6'10 guy the Nets drafted whose name I forgot proves they can produce size.

[outbreak]

You are giving a serious response to a dumb joke. Anyway I don't know about any breeding programs but the existense of Yao Ming, Wang Zhi Zhi and the 6'10 guy the Nets drafted whose name I forgot proves they can produce size.

That's true. I can't remember who it was but I think it was another player who tried to come over when Yao did who wrote a book about how his parents were recruited as children to play basketball for china because of their size, were sent to camps where they would be fed and looked after but had to play basketball and where eventually put in to an arranged marriage to try and have bigger children.

Who knows if it's true or not but considering they've had swimmers getting pregnant and then having an abortion before big events for the hormones the body gains back it wouldn't surprise me.

[GOBB]

Dudes get to be celebs in college, not even go to class, pick where they wanna go... or china. Haha. I'm straight on China I dunno about you. On so many levels. The money will come later going to china as an 18 year old could ruin you. It could be good also but it's a big chance.

-Smak

Ruin you how?

[ILLsmak]

Ruin you how?

Bein trapped in china when you're not ready for that level of responsibility. Imagine you lived in one place your whole life and dudes are like yo we got a job for u in china...

And you can't flake out like you would in college, either. I'd be wary of china. Going to somewhere like italy or france, to me, is not the same as china or Russia.

I def wouldn't have been ready to pack up and move there at age 18. It sounds good in theory, but once you get there you don't think there's a chance you flake out or you play below your potential because you're in a bad spot.

College is easy mode. I don't agree with forcing people to go to college, but it's def the path of least resistance.

-Smak

[JtotheIzzo]

It's China, not Euroleague. Chinese basketball doesn't seem to be as good as NCAA D1 with the way we see NBA players dominate. JR Smith scored 60. The NBA is no longer interested in Steph Marbury but he's one of the greatest players they've ever seen over there.

No because the NCAA doesn't just rely on NBA talent for it's popularity. NCAA sports are driven by school fanbases and they will remain loyal no matter what because it's their school. It might cost NCAA a little talent but we've seen very few teenage phenoms willing to leave the country for the sake of an earlier payday.

Chinese players are mid-major level players(I know Chinese Americans who played lower levels of NCAA and couldn't crack a squad even as a local), but the imports (Marbury etc.) would all be 1st team all america. The added bonus for Mudiay is that he is facing much more adversity than playing in the NCAA, he is playing against grown men, he is playing in a VERY physical league (CBA has a reputation for tough, scrappy play), and he is getting the experience of living overseas (growth, independence). He will get more benefit from this than he would going to keggers with fratboys.

Coaching over there is getting better too, especially if he has a non-Chinese coach.

[JtotheIzzo]

Bein trapped in china when you're not ready for that level of responsibility. Imagine you lived in one place your whole life and dudes are like yo we got a job for u in china...

And you can't flake out like you would in college, either. I'd be wary of china. Going to somewhere like italy or france, to me, is not the same as china or Russia.

I def wouldn't have been ready to pack up and move there at age 18. It sounds good in theory, but once you get there you don't think there's a chance you flake out or you play below your potential because you're in a bad spot.

College is easy mode. I don't agree with forcing people to go to college, but it's def the path of least resistance.

-Smak

The guy is playing for the Guangdong Tigers, Guangdong is across the river from Hong Kong and a very rich and modern province in China, hardly a remote posting in the middle of nowhere. The major cities in that province (Shenzhen, Dongguan, Guangzhou, Juhai) are probably filled with more fun things to do, shopping, restaurants etc. than any US city outside the top ten largest. They are also full of expats and shit Westerners like and like to spend money on so he is hardly struggling or sleeping in a hut and eating rice with his hands. Shit, there is a lot of fun to be had in those cities, and Mudiay is probably having a time and a half.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Was it this board I read a good thread about teaching overseas in China? The person that went there didn't speak Chinese either. Really interesting read.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Chinese players are mid-major level players(I know Chinese Americans who played lower levels of NCAA and couldn't crack a squad even as a local), but the imports (Marbury etc.) would all be 1st team all america. The added bonus for Mudiay is that he is facing much more adversity than playing in the NCAA, he is playing against grown men, he is playing in a VERY physical league (CBA has a reputation for tough, scrappy play), and he is getting the experience of living overseas (growth, independence). He will get more benefit from this than he would going to keggers with fratboys.

Coaching over there is getting better too, especially if he has a non-Chinese coach.Marbury got a statue over there afterhis NBA career ended. That's not a 26 year-old Starbury dominating, that's a 37 year-old who the Celtics thought was only worth the veteran's minimum 5 years ago. The imports to China that are NBA-caliber have these crazy statlines playing roles they'd never get in the NBA. JR Smith averaged 34 points on 51.7%. No way would he do that statline in an elite conference of the NCAA. The few guys in China with NBA talent are bound to overwhelm the players they face with their superior athleticism and skills. Michael Beasley averaged 28 points over there. In what way is a league that allows guys like Beasley, Smith, Delonte West, etc. to dominate good preparation? I'm not saying Mudiay is being held back but he'd face more talent at an elite NCAA program.

And all this talk of "independence"...I actually was thinking that they were getting a taste of that but thinking about it further, does Mudiay speak Chinese? Because if he doesn't it means he needs an interpreter every time he steps out the door and had/has people taking care of everything for him. He probably even had to be told how to use the toilet the first time he saw one over there.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Marbury got a statue over there afterhis NBA career ended. That's not a 26 year-old Starbury dominating, that's a 37 year-old who the Celtics thought was only worth the veteran's minimum 5 years ago. The imports to China that are NBA-caliber have these crazy statlines playing roles they'd never get in the NBA. JR Smith averaged 34 points on 51.7%. No way would he do that statline in an elite conference of the NCAA. The few guys in China with NBA talent are bound to overwhelm the players they face with their superior athleticism and skills. Michael Beasley averaged 28 points over there. In what way is a league that allows guys like Beasley, Smith, Delonte West, etc. to dominate good preparation? I'm not saying Mudiay is being held back but he'd face more talent at an elite NCAA program.

And all this talk of "independence"...I actually was thinking that they were getting a taste of that but thinking about it further, does Mudiay speak Chinese? Because if he doesn't it means he needs an interpreter every time he steps out the door and had/has people taking care of everything for him. He probably even had to be told how to use the toilet the first time he saw one over there.Thinking about it Beasley did dominate in college. lol@me. The others didn't though.

[JtotheIzzo]

And all this talk of "independence"...I actually was thinking that they were getting a taste of that but thinking about it further, does Mudiay speak Chinese? Because if he doesn't it means he needs an interpreter every time he steps out the door and had/has people taking care of everything for him. He probably even had to be told how to use the toilet the first time he saw one over there.

You don't need to speak the local language. I have lived and worked in a few Asian countries and travelled to most of them and did fine without any language skills (though they were learned naturally just by being there). Most people, especially those that work in cities, speak a few English word and you can also get by quite well on body language. With him being a sports star there people are probably very keen to please him (and annoy him with constant pictures). You don't need language to eat, drink or get laid.

[tgan3]

i watch the CBA and most of the chinese player suck ass. Yes, they are very tall but they have no moves and most of them no athleticism. its just catch the ball, then stand at the spot, if open shoot if not pass to the import etc...heck, if I have that height I know I will own them easily no contest..

This is not to say all the players are bad. local players like Yi Jianlian (Guangdong), Zhu Fangyu (Guangdong), Li Gen (Beijing) and couple others are good and on par with the imports. The young players, Guo Ailun(Liaoning), Wang Zhelin (Fujian) and Zhou Qi (Xinjiang) to name some, are also promising and pretty athletic.

[Ariza4three]

Was it this board I read a good thread about teaching overseas in China? The person that went there didn't speak Chinese either. Really interesting read.
Yeah. GatorKid.

[Cactus-Sack]

http://media.giphy.com/media/RbAmK0G8BoGOI/giphy.gif

[Real Men Wear Green]

You don't need to speak the local language. I have lived and worked in a few Asian countries and travelled to most of them and did fine without any language skills (though they were learned naturally just by being there). Most people, especially those that work in cities, speak a few English word and you can also get by quite well on body language.
He can go grab a bag of chips at a convenience store but it's a lock he did not pick out his apartment or wherever he lives by himself and he has to have been helped with just about any services he signed up for like internet, cable, power, etc. The biggest challenge he may be facing is getting homesick. When it comes to independence the main differences are that he has more money than he would have in the NCAA and he doesn't know what people around him are saying most of the time. He's not going to grow in amazing ways he would not have otherwise. It's just getting exposed to a different culture.
With him being a sports star there people are probably very keen to please him (and annoy him with constant pictures). You don't need language to eat, drink or get laid.None of this makes him more independent.

[SpanishACB]

where is that article explaining that china basketball league is a marketing farce were players are not allowed to defend americans?

[ralph_i_el]

as someone who has been to China, most places you go in a city will have people that speak English. Not many people speak english in rural areas. This dude grew up speaking french though, and apparently has learned english, so I'm assuming he won't have an issue picking up a little conversational chinese. When you learn multiple languages at a young age it shapes the brain to be more receptive to languages in general.

also, as a black person in China he is probably hounded constantly for pictures by folks who don't even know who he is. The one black dude in our group had his picture taken with like 50 Chinese people in 2 weeks. We also had a blonde dude who made it his mission to convince the Chinese that he was Eminem, which actually fooled a lot of folks (because this dude dressed like Eminem every damn day lol).

Also, shameless bragging, but I randomly ran into CP3 AND Ron Artest...weeks apart....in Beijing. CP3 was cool as hell and actually hung out with us for like 15-20 minutes. Ron Artest was wearing black sunglasses inside at 8am, and he was in an awful mood. I assume he was very hung over.

[Lebron23]

I hope the Knicks will abandon the triangle offense if they draft Mudiay.

[BlakFrankWhite]

to anyone watched this dude

what kind of PG is he...the Wall/CP3 type classic pg....or the Westbrook type PG/SG hybrid?

[Lebron23]

to anyone watched this dude

what kind of PG is he...the Wall/CP3 type classic pg....or the Westbrook type PG/SG hybrid?


John Wall-esque

[raprap]

He would be perfect for the Knicks. A big pg was always good for the triangle. Btw, does Fisher still try the triangle? Last time I watched the knicks they were all over the place. :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

He would be perfect for the Knicks. A big pg was always good for the triangle. Btw, does Fisher still try the triangle? Last time I watched the knicks they were all over the place. :oldlol:
Triangle had big pgs playing off the ball but would Knicks be happy if the 4th pick was used to get someone playing like Ron Harper? We've never seen a pg featured in that system.

[raprap]

Triangle had big pgs playing off the ball but would Knicks be happy if the 4th pick was used to get someone playing like Ron Harper? We've never seen a pg featured in that system.
Haha true.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Freshman Austin Rivers averaged 16 PPG at Duke. Replace Jr with Austin and he can easily average 35 and put up 50 pt games