Gordon Hayward

[Smoke117]

I know it's early...but considering all the retarded threads that are made here day to day, this can't be up that high. What does everyone think of Hayward so far this season? Is he starting to live up to the contract? He just dropped 30 in a loss to the Pacers (which the Jazz cost me 40 bucks...****ing shitty guards :facepalm ) and is now averaging: 19.4ppg 6.3rpg 5.1apg 2.0tpg 1.0spg .504fg% .363%3pt .972%ft. I've watched a 3 or 4 Jazz games thus far and thought he has looked really good except that he isn't aggressive enough and shoots too many 3pters. He's only taking about 13 shots a game when he should be taking 16-18 a game nightly. I have high expectations of a duo of him and Derrick Favors in the next couple of years.

Side note: Trey Burke should kill himself. He is complete garbage.

[navy]

Cant be worse than Parsons.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Yea, he's been really balling lately, living up to that contract... And like you've said, he isn't agressive enough though, that can be good to fit within the team, let the ball flow and so on, but it can also be detrimental when you're the best player and need to pick up the slack, not settling up for just 3-pointers/jumpers as well...

[Xiao Yao You]

Hayward is still streaky. He doesn't need to shoot more when he's not hitting. He needs the ball in his hands making plays for himself and others. Can't see him living up to the contract.

Burke might be ok eventually but the fact that he has been handed the starting job the past two years with no competition is a joke. I know they have been tanking but Neto should have been there at the very least.

Favors is still inconsistent with a weak post game and not the great defender he's been advertised as.

[stalkerforlife]

Hayward has all the tools.

I'd like to see him be more aggressive, though. He's selling himself short.

[Rake2204]

He was relatively absent against the Pistons for a large portion of the game last night. Then he showed up big in the fourth quarter. He drilled three really key jumpers of varying difficulty that turned the tide of that ball game. They were star plays.

Beyond that, I haven't seen much of him outside of the Cavs performance.

[PassTheRock]

Is hayward the type of player tha could be a 1st option on a contending team or is he more suited to being a 2nd option down the line of his career?

[Magic731]

They need to start Exum over Burke. Exum gets Hayward the ball.

[Springsteen]

Cant be worse than Parsons.

This. I struggle with dropping him every day, because I don't know if he'll go off or not.

[Magic731]

Is hayward the type of player tha could be a 1st option on a contending team or is he more suited to being a 2nd option down the line of his career?
Hayward will never be a first option on a contender, but he has potential to be a vital glue guy/third option.

[buddha]

haha I also had money on the jazz but at the last minute was like it's the ****ing jazz and decided to hedge my bet.

[Xiao Yao You]

Is hayward the type of player tha could be a 1st option on a contending team or is he more suited to being a 2nd option down the line of his career?

3rd or 4th option. He's best playing an all around game and not having to look for his shot.

[oarabbus]

3rd or 4th option. He's best playing an all around game and not having to look for his shot.


He could be a damn good 2nd option.

[JohnnySic]

He needs to reunite with his college coach on the Celtics. :D

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

He is underrated since hes white as rice, plays starcraft and has the least intimidating face of alltime
ive rooted for him ever since butlers miracle run, the nikka got game

[stalkerforlife]

They need to start Exum over Burke. Exum gets Hayward the ball.

Burke has too much of a green light.

Hayward needs to check him.

[kennethgriffin]

19/6/5 = kobe 1998-99 at age 15

meh



edit*... well i guess its good if you compare it to prime tim duncan

[Fudge]

He looks like a little boy. I love him.

[Magic731]

Burke has too much of a green light.

Hayward needs to check him.
That's why they should start Exum. He plays within the offense, within his capabilities. He makes the play that needs to be made rather than the play he wants to. Sometimes that is as simple as a drive and kick to Hayward. Let Burke come off the bench and give him the green light with the second unit.

[stalkerforlife]

That's why they should start Exum. He plays within the offense, within his capabilities. He makes the play that needs to be made rather than the play he wants to. Sometimes that is as simple as a drive and kick to Hayward. Let Burke come off the bench and give him the green light with the second unit.

Burke would probably implode.

Oh well.

[brooks_thompson]

I still can't get over that final shot against Duke in the NC. A couple inches, and it would've been one of the greatest ever

[stalkerforlife]

I still can't get over that final shot against Duke in the NC. A couple inches, and it would've been one of the greatest ever

I would say THE greatest ever.

[Xiao Yao You]

He needs to reunite with his college coach on the Celtics. :D

I agree. You have 16.5 million in salaries that the Jazz would want?


Burke would probably implode.

I think he might excel as a 6th man. Right now they pull Gordon or Burks early in the game so one of them can come back with the 2nd unit. Could let them play and let Burke lead the 2nd unit.

[turnaroundJ]

I agree. You have 16.5 million in salaries that the Jazz would want?



I think he might excel as a 6th man. Right now they pull Gordon or Burks early in the game so one of them can come back with the 2nd unit. Could let them play and let Burke lead the 2nd unit.

I'm guessing you're not a Hayward fan?

[steve]

That's why they should start Exum. He plays within the offense, within his capabilities. He makes the play that needs to be made rather than the play he wants to. Sometimes that is as simple as a drive and kick to Hayward. Let Burke come off the bench and give him the green light with the second unit.

Exum's +/- with the starters in Burke's place has been excellent but I think they're doing the right thing by not starting him. Burke's biggest problem right now is that he can't find his shot, and it's building off what was an issue last season. He's not a full time starter in this league but he can be average and Snyder is right about stating him ahead of Exum right now, especially since the Jazz aren't a playoff team. Exum has been great in his role and has been deserving more minutes but he's still 19 and the worst thing is putting too much on his plate and overwhelming him. Granted it wouldn't surprise me if Exum is starting by the all star break if Burke's shooting woes continue. But Exum's undoubtedly the future and their core with him, Hayward, and Favors is going to be awesome with Snyder growing as a coach.

On the point at hand, Hayward is really really good. People talking what option he would be on some hypothetical contending team are really overlooking the point here and missing out on an emerging multi-tool star. To look at the threads about Hayward around this time last season and look how down people were on him last and compare that to how's he's playing this season. I wish people here could just enjoy how good players like Hayward are because he's been a joy to watch so far (as the Jazz have been as a whole).

[stalkerforlife]

He looks like a little boy. I love him.

:biggums:

:roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm guessing you're not a Hayward fan?

Big fan as I am of AK. Not max players though.


Snyder is right about stating him ahead of Exum right now, especially since the Jazz aren't a playoff team.

They aren't a playoff team because they are tanking. They have a better pg in Spain that they chose not to bring over.


Exum has been great in his role and has been deserving more minutes but he's still 19 and the worst thing is putting too much on his plate and overwhelming him.

From what I've seen the kid's not going to overwhelmed by anything. Burke otoh... Clark has looked decent since summer. Why not give him a shot? Send Burke to the bench or Idaho for a wake up call.


Granted it wouldn't surprise me if Exum is starting by the all star break if Burke's shooting woes continue. But Exum's undoubtedly the future and their core with him, Hayward, and Favors is going to be awesome with Snyder growing as a coach.

Remains to be seen. Exum is intriguing but the rest of the team looks like the same old Jazz that Corbin got blamed for. No D. Only difference is they are running which may be why they got killed on the offensive glass the past two games.


On the point at hand, Hayward is really really good. People talking what option he would be on some hypothetical contending team are really overlooking the point here and missing out on an emerging multi-tool star. To look at the threads about Hayward around this time last season and look how down people were on him last and compare that to how's he's playing this season. I wish people here could just enjoy how good players like Hayward are because he's been a joy to watch so far (as the Jazz have been as a whole).

He is a joy to watch but he's not a max player and that is bad for the Jazz. They tried to say it didn't matter because they had the money but with Burks signing they are close to the cap for next season already with no stars in tow.

[Skywalker]

He is a max player. Extremely efficient offensively and a great defender. He has all the tools. Shooting, passing, ball handling, vision.

[Xiao Yao You]

I assume that is based on 2 weeks of this season because he certainly wasn't efficient last year. He's a streaky shooter at best. He turns over the ball a lot.

[TheBigVeto]

Will be the best SF in the game in no time.
He slayed Lebron easily.

[mrpibb]

Yea, he's been really balling lately, living up to that contract... And like you've said, he isn't agressive enough though, that can be good to fit within the team, let the ball flow and so on, but it can also be detrimental when you're the best player and need to pick up the slack, not settling up for just 3-pointers/jumpers as well...



He's only taken 22 midrange jumpers all year. And you could say he should take more, because he's made 16 of them. He's not jacking up 3-pointers. He's taking the fat out of his game. He's at the rim, the freethrow line, or behind the 3-point line, and he's still shooting above 50%.


Hayward is still streaky. He doesn't need to shoot more when he's not hitting. He needs the ball in his hands making plays for himself and others. Can't see him living up to the contract.

Burke might be ok eventually but the fact that he has been handed the starting job the past two years with no competition is a joke. I know they have been tanking but Neto should have been there at the very least.

Favors is still inconsistent with a weak post game and not the great defender he's been advertised as.

Why would they bring over Neto when they're trying to develop Burke? Neto's a small guard, too, so you'd be playing two point guards that are smaller than the opposing point guard. Exum adds an element where he comes in and changes the game because of his length and size. Neto would come in (or Burke, whichever) and be the same type of player. You don't want that.

Favors doesn't need a post game. The post game isn't efficient, and yeah, he's not defending that well because he's not a center.


Exum's +/- with the starters in Burke's place has been excellent but I think they're doing the right thing by not starting him. Burke's biggest problem right now is that he can't find his shot, and it's building off what was an issue last season. He's not a full time starter in this league but he can be average and Snyder is right about stating him ahead of Exum right now, especially since the Jazz aren't a playoff team. Exum has been great in his role and has been deserving more minutes but he's still 19 and the worst thing is putting too much on his plate and overwhelming him. Granted it wouldn't surprise me if Exum is starting by the all star break if Burke's shooting woes continue. But Exum's undoubtedly the future and their core with him, Hayward, and Favors is going to be awesome with Snyder growing as a coach.

On the point at hand, Hayward is really really good. People talking what option he would be on some hypothetical contending team are really overlooking the point here and missing out on an emerging multi-tool star. To look at the threads about Hayward around this time last season and look how down people were on him last and compare that to how's he's playing this season. I wish people here could just enjoy how good players like Hayward are because he's been a joy to watch so far (as the Jazz have been as a whole).

You're completely right. Burke is going through a rough patch right now, but he'll break out of it. He's not a 30% shooter (24% from 3) for his career. He'll hit a hot streak soon enough, but right now he's learning the offense and starting to excel at it: He had eight assists last night.

There's no way he'll start this season unless Burke gets hurt because 1) he's 19 2) any change should be made much later in the season, and 3) Exum's body looks like it's going to hit the wall hard.


Big fan as I am of AK. Not max players though.

So why would you trade a valuable piece of our franchise? The max contract will never hinder us. Never. It'll expire before Exum's up for restricted free agency. You're not going to pay max money for Burks or Kanter. So what do we need that money for? Why in God's name would you trade him?


They aren't a playoff team because they are tanking. They have a better pg in Spain that they chose not to bring over.

This always gets me. You don't know if Neto's better. You saw him play well in Summer League.



From what I've seen the kid's not going to overwhelmed by anything. Burke otoh... Clark has looked decent since summer. Why not give him a shot? Send Burke to the bench or Idaho for a wake up call.

Burke's doing just fine. He's just struggling with his shot. Also, keep in mind that bench players often look much better because the coaches know how to utilize them. Exum's being protected a bunch, and even though he has closed out the last two games (both helped by Burke's foul trouble, by the way) he's stayed off the ball.


He is a joy to watch but he's not a max player and that is bad for the Jazz. They tried to say it didn't matter because they had the money but with Burks signing they are close to the cap for next season already with no stars in tow.

Complete bullshit.


I assume that is based on 2 weeks of this season because he certainly wasn't efficient last year. He's a streaky shooter at best. He turns over the ball a lot.

No one aside from Danny Granger has ever stepped into the No. 1 option from the No. 3 option and been successful. I'm not saying he'll be the man anywhere he goes, but, like, give him a pass for last season. He was also under pressure trying to earn a new contract. Now he has a bounce in his step. We'll see how long it lasts.

[Xiao Yao You]

Why would they bring over Neto when they're trying to develop Burke?

Because he's looked like the better player and was a free agent with no buyout. Not sure if that's the case anymore. I doubt it though. They always have buyouts. They talk about competition and Burke unlike his teammates has had none the past two years. He's been handed the job just because. But that's tanking I guess. Who cares about putting the best players on the court and trying to compete.


Neto's a small guard, too, so you'd be playing two point guards that are smaller than the opposing point guard.

Or you'd send one to the D-league or trade one. They have options especially now that they have their own D-league team which of course they still aren't utilizing. Clark was in the rotation in the pre-season before they picked up Ingles. He's a small guard too. Exum can play the wing with his size as well.


Exum adds an element where he comes in and changes the game because of his length and size. Neto would come in (or Burke, whichever) and be the same type of player. You don't want that.

He's not the same type of player. He's a pass first pg. He gets after people defensively. He hits open shots. He's got more pro experience. He's a better fit for how they are trying to play.


Favors doesn't need a post game. The post game isn't efficient, and yeah, he's not defending that well because he's not a center.

If Kanter is going to be on the perimeter someone needs to be able to post up effectively. Favors is posting up so he needs a post game if he's going to be doing it. Everyone seems to think he's a center. They never have Favors chasing around the PF even when the match-ups would seem to favor that.


You're completely right. Burke is going through a rough patch right now, but he'll break out of it. He's not a 30% shooter (24% from 3) for his career. He'll hit a hot streak soon enough, but right now he's learning the offense and starting to excel at it: He had eight assists last night.

He wasn't very good last year. Will he ever be a starting caliber pg? Will he ever be a good shooter? All he ever be able to defend? I think he may be a good 6th man. Right now they are pulling Hayward or Burks early in the game so one of them is playing with the 2nd unit. If Burke came off the bench maybe they wouldn't have to do that?


There's no way he'll start this season unless Burke gets hurt because 1) he's 19 2) any change should be made much later in the season, and 3) Exum's body looks like it's going to hit the wall hard.

Any change should be made based on performance. Exum continues to get better and looks like he has a great future. Burke has yet to show he is an NBA starter or even a rotation player.


So why would you trade a valuable piece of our franchise?

Because he's overpaid and you could get more for the money?


The max contract will never hinder us. Never.

Like AK's never hurt them? With Burks signing their cap is almost full next year. Already hurting.


It'll expire before Exum's up for restricted free agency. You're not going to pay max money for Burks or Kanter. So what do we need that money for?

To put together a competitive roster?


Why in God's name would you trade him?

everyone is tradable in my mind if it improves the team


This always gets me. You don't know if Neto's better. You saw him play well in Summer League.

I saw him outplay Burke. I also watched him in the World's where he showed his improvement. I'd guess the Jazz 2nd guessed their plan after watching him in the World's. They are under the cap. The have a D-league team. There's lots of reasons to bring him over.


Burke's doing just fine. He's just struggling with his shot.

More worried about his D personally.


Also, keep in mind that bench players often look much better because the coaches know how to utilize them. Exum's being protected a bunch, and even though he has closed out the last two games (both helped by Burke's foul trouble, by the way) he's stayed off the ball.

Yes and Burke should be off the ball too with Gordon and Alec around but if he can't hit an open shot or defend what good is he?


Complete bullshit.

http://www.slcdunk.com/nba-free-agency/2014/10/31/7140907/utah-jazz-salary-updated-with-new-alec-burks-contract-details

97% of the cap used up next year.


No one aside from Danny Granger has ever stepped into the No. 1 option from the No. 3 option and been successful. I'm not saying he'll be the man anywhere he goes, but, like, give him a pass for last season. He was also under pressure trying to earn a new contract. Now he has a bounce in his step. We'll see how long it lasts.

I don't see him as a #1 option. That's a big part of the problem.

[Darius]

Hayward is a great, championship-level 3rd option forced into a 1st option role.

He is overpaid per the current CBA but perhaps not if the salary cap goes up as much as they say.

IMO Favors is the one paid too much. He is a role playing starter, not an all-star. Kanter is the same. Burke, jury is out but probably same.

Jazz need a 1st option and - from the looks of it - they might find that in Exum in 2-3 years. I really like his feel for the game.

[Xiao Yao You]

Hayward is a great, championship-level 3rd option forced into a 1st option role.

He is overpaid per the current CBA but perhaps not if the salary cap goes up as much as they say.

IMO Favors is the one paid too much. He is a role playing starter, not an all-star. Kanter is the same. Burke, jury is out but probably same.

Jazz need a 1st option and - from the looks of it - they might find that in Exum in 2-3 years. I really like his feel for the game.

Not sure Exum is a first option. He's too unselfish. Favors isn't getting max. He may be worth it if he becomes the defensive force he's been hyped as.

[bizil]

So far looking at Hayward's game, I see a 20 point per game kind of player who has point forward kind of capabilities. He's also a good rebounder as well getting 6 a night. ANYTIME a perimeter player is capable of getting 20-5-5 over a season, that's All Star caliber right there. He's only 24 years old and isn't anywhere close to his peak years. So in my book, it doesn't matter if he's a true alpha dog at this point. Im impressed with what's he's doing at this point in his career. If I were to project though, I see him as a very good number two option (not really an alpha dog number two option like Wade, McHale, young Kobe). Or a GREAT number three option! But who knows, he might turn into an alpha dog player, it's too early to tell in his case.

[Mass Debator]

He's like #6 in PER at almost 25 for players averaging more than 30 minutes. :bowdown: