Top 10 All time Clutch Players

[Mr. Jabbar]

1- Jordan
2- Bird
3- Magic
4- West
5- Miller
6- Horry
7- Havlicek
8- McGrady
9- Russell
10- Kobe

http://www.nba.com/rockets/fans/The_DB_Guy_Top_10_NBA_Clutch_-136612-822.html

The guy is a rocket homer who hates the lakers and kobe with a pasion so take that list with a grain of salt. Do you agree with his list?

I'd rank kobe higher and mcgrady lower due to no deep runs/logevity, but its a somewhat decent list and a lot better than some cherry picked stats that pop up on this site from time to time. I'd say the list has a lot of "eye-test" into it

[SouBeachTalents]

Having McGrady on that list is a joke

[Mr. Jabbar]

Having McGrady on that list is a joke

its the only joke rlly rest is kinda fine

[SouBeachTalents]

its the only joke rlly rest is kinda fine

True, replace McGrady with someone like Duncan and I think the list is basically legit

[Done_And_Done]

Tmac could lay it down in the regular season but his position on this list likely has something to do with that 13 points in a minute game or whatever the numbers were...

[Mass Debator]

Ray Allen is known as the savior for a reason...

[Kblaze8855]

Ray Allen and Sam Jones have to go on...or at least one of them. Give them Tmacs spot...bump Russell up....list would be ok.

[avonbarksdale]

kobe higher, add ray allen, maybe kd or dirk

[SouBeachTalents]

kobe higher, add ray allen, maybe kd or dirk

:facepalm

[roffie]

where is lebron on this list?

[JT123]

1a. MJ
1b. Lebron













the rest

[SouBeachTalents]

1a. MJ
1b. Lebron













the rest

:roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[ArbitraryWater]

Sam Jones missing..... Put him there for Kobe. Dirk should be in there too. (And no, not LeBron).

Bill Russell on Sam Jones:

"In terms of basketball skills, Sam Jones was the most skillful player that I played with. And six times in that run, we won 8 straight championships, and six times during that run we asked Sam to take the shot that meant the season, if he missed it, we were finished for the season... He never missed. And he never hesitated to take the shot."

[Fire Colangelo]

Decent list, as much as I love McGrady he does not belong on the list. He's on the same tier as Carter in clutchness IMO.

Ray Allen really needs to be on the list.

The next tier would be the likes of Paul Pierce and Dirk.

Fisher is a good mention as well.

[Ai2death]

Robert Horry not serious

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1. LeBron
2. MJ
3. Irrelevant

[Ai2death]

1. LeBron
2. MJ
3. Irrelevant

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpqiforCYAAu3oQ.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

kobe has like 50 game winning shots and probably the 2nd most 4th quarter points in nba history. he should be top 2-3 atleast

[avonbarksdale]

:facepalm


kd has so many game winners already in his young career as well as some sweet clutch playoff moments

sorry sou beach talents go cry about lebron

[Hoopz2332]

:roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4


:coleman:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314244

[Droid101]

1a. MJ
1b. Lebron













the rest


1. LeBron
2. MJ
3. Irrelevant
You only have to post this once for us to know you're a delusional idiot. No need logging into separate accounts.

[SouBeachTalents]

kd has so many game winners already in his young career as well as some sweet clutch playoff moments

sorry sou beach talents go cry about lebron

Name some please, especially ones that would merit being a top 10 clutch player of ALL TIME

[SouBeachTalents]

:coleman:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314244

Lol, I'm in full agreement with that thread, neither LeBron or Kobe should ever be mentioned on the level of Jordan in crunch time

[Ai2death]

Waiting for one of the delusion posters to post Lillard next.

It's a top 10 all time list, not top 10 in the last few seasons. Maybe by the end of his career KD will cut it, but not right now.

[gyu]

I don't care how overpaid Joe Johnson is, he is an all time goat in terms of delivering in the clutch.

[Hoopz2332]

Lol, I'm in full agreement with that thread, neither LeBron or Kobe should ever be mentioned on the level of Jordan in crunch time

Lebron is far closer to MJ in the clutch than Kobe. lebron is the only player in elimination games or game 7's that's in the same league as Jordan.


Elimination games

LeBron James EG Averages:
31.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .6 BPG, 4.5 TOPG, 46.5 FG%, 31.4 3P%, 73.8 FT%



Michael Jordan EG Averages:
31.3 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.1 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.2 TOPG, 45.8 FG%, 33.3 3P%, 75.7 FT%

Kobe Bryant EG Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

Dwyane Wade EG Averages:
24.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 4.4 TOPG, 44. 0 FG%, 30.0 3P%, 87.4 FT%




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305065




game 7's


Michael Jordan G7 Stats:
36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%
-W/out Game 5’s
33.7 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 7.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.7 TOPG, 45.7 FG%, 0.0 3P%, 81.8 FT%

Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:
21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%
-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%

Dwyane Wade G7 Stats:
21.7 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 3.8 APG, 1.3 SPG, .8 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 40.7 FG%, 15.4 3P%, 91.4 FT%

LeBron James G7 Stats:
34.4 PPG, 9.0 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.6 SPG, .4 BPG, 2.4 TOPG, 47.4 FG%, 31.3 3P%, 79.4 FT%


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305091

LBJ putting in that work:eek: :bowdown:

[Fire Colangelo]

I don't care how overpaid Joe Johnson is, he is an all time goat in terms of delivering in the clutch.

How many clutch shots did he make in the playoffs?

[Ai2death]

[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]Lebron is far closer to MJ in the clutch than Kobe. lebron is the only player in elimination games or game 7's that's in the same league as Jordan.


Elimination games

LeBron James EG Averages:
31.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .6 BPG, 4.5 TOPG, 46.5 FG%, 31.4 3P%, 73.8 FT%



Michael Jordan EG Averages:
31.3 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.1 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.2 TOPG, 45.8 FG%, 33.3 3P%, 75.7 FT%

Kobe Bryant EG Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

Dwyane Wade EG Averages:
24.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 4.4 TOPG, 44. 0 FG%, 30.0 3P%, 87.4 FT%




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305065




game 7's


Michael Jordan G7 Stats:
36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%
-W/out Game 5

[SouBeachTalents]

[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]Lebron is far closer to MJ in the clutch than Kobe. lebron is the only player in elimination games or game 7's that's in the same league as Jordan.


Elimination games

LeBron James EG Averages:
31.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .6 BPG, 4.5 TOPG, 46.5 FG%, 31.4 3P%, 73.8 FT%



Michael Jordan EG Averages:
31.3 PPG, 7.9 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.1 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.2 TOPG, 45.8 FG%, 33.3 3P%, 75.7 FT%

Kobe Bryant EG Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

Dwyane Wade EG Averages:
24.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 4.4 TOPG, 44. 0 FG%, 30.0 3P%, 87.4 FT%




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305065




game 7's


Michael Jordan G7 Stats:
36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%
-W/out Game 5

[Kblaze8855]

I'll mention Kareem too. Everyone knew what was gonna happen when virtually all of his teams needed a big shot for at least 18 years. And it still worked. EVen some of the biggest non Kareem plays of his title runs were just...plays called for him that someone chose not to go with. Like the Baby hook shot by magic. It was drawn up for Kareem.

Kareem was the go to guy in the clutch for good teams for 20 years.

[NZStreetBaller]

ray allen definately deserves to be on the list although i wouldnt call him the best clutch performer i would call him the best clutch shooter, which in my opinion earns him a spot as a clutch performer on the top 10 list.

[Hoopz2332]

When it comes to the NBA Finals, it's not even close. Career Finals statistics below

Jordan: 34, 6, 6, 48%
LeBron: 24, 9, 6, 45%
Kobe: 25, 6, 5, 42%


lebron's finals numbers are still better than Kobe's:applause:


[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]I keep hearing/reading about this Kobe "The Killer" myth when people make comparisons between the similarities and differences between him, Jordan and lebron but it's flatout BS! The numbers just don't back up Kobe's rep.:biggums: Let's take a look at some numbers..

Playoff Numbers


KObe

25.6 ppg 45 FG% on 21 FGA

5 rbs


5ast
.
.
.
.
.
.



lebron

28.1 ppg 47 FG% on 20 FGa

9 rbs

7 ast


.
.
.
Jordan

33.4 ppg 49 FG% on 25 FGA

6 rbs

6 ast


:coleman:




Clutch numbers in the playoffs

Playoff clutch time

http://i.imgur.com/6sylQYF.jpg (old)

updated

http://i.imgur.com/m8fCjif.png

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/58575/lebron-james-isnt-clutch-think-again


I thought KObe was a "killer"?:biggums:



.
.
.


.


Playoff elimination games


Michael Jordan Elimination Game Averages:

31.3 PPG,

7.9 RPG,

7.0 APG,

2.1 SPG,

1.0 BPG,

4.2 TOPG,

45.8 FG%,

33.3 3P%,

75.7 FT%


.
.
.
.


LeBron James Elimination Game Averages:

31.9 PPG,


10.1 RPG,

6.5 APG,


1.4 SPG,

.6 BPG,

4.5 TOPG,

46.5 FG%,

31.4 3P%,

73.8 FT%

.
.
.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Where is KObe "the killer" at in elimination games?:oldlol:


Straight up game 7's or 5's

Michael Jordan G7 Stats:

36.8 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 6.6 APG, 1.2 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 4.0 TOPG, 48.9 FG%, 33.3 FG%, 79.7 FT%

-W/out Game 5

[Deuce Bigalow]

What about Wilt Chamberlain though? He was known for his clutchness.

[Theoo]

What about Wilt Chamberlain though? He was known for his clutchness.
he haved some very clutch jumpballtips

[Mr. Jabbar]

What about Wilt Chamberlain though? He was known for his clutchness.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/kobe.gif

[LAZERUSS]

What about Wilt Chamberlain though? He was known for his clutchness.

Wilt played in 11 "at-the-limit" playoff games:

Team: 6-5
29.9 ppg
27.3 rpg
.581 FG%
Outscored his opposing starting center in all 11
Outrebounded his opposing starting center, 10-0-1



Wilt played in 23 "must-win" playoff games:

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points (The ONLY 50+ "must-win" games by a GOAT candidate in NBA history)

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

BTW, Wilt's "must-win" ppg average ranks THIRD all-time, and just behind Lebron's 31.9 ppg, and MJ's, 31.3 ppg.



Wilt played in 37 "elimination" games (where either his team, or the opposing team faced elimination):

His team's went 24-13 in elimination games:

29.5 ppg,
26.1 rpg,
4.2 apg
.546 FG%



How about Wilt vs. Russell in their 4 game seven's?

Russell: 13.0 ppg, 24.5 rpg, .465 FG%
Wilt: 21.0 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .638 FG%

How about Wilt vs Russell in their 15 "elimination games"?

Russell: 14.6 ppg, 24.9 rpg, .442 FG%
Wilt: 27.5 ppg, 27.7 rpg, .505 FG%

Oh, and Wilt outscored Russell by a 14-1 margin, and outrebounded Russell by a 9-5-1 margin.




Arguably the greatest "clutch" playoff performer of all-time.

[ImKobe]

T-Mac :kobe:

[stalkerforlife]

1. Jordan
2. Kobe

Kobe has the most game winners of all time, but MJ was more efficient.

[SexSymbol]

Wilt played in 11 "at-the-limit" playoff games:

Team: 6-5
29.9 ppg
27.3 rpg
.581 FG%
Outscored his opposing starting center in all 11
Outrebounded his opposing starting center, 10-0-1



Wilt played in 23 "must-win" playoff games:

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

BTW, Wilt's "must-win" ppg average ranks THIRD all-time, and just behind Lebron's 31.9 ppg, and MJ's, 31.3 ppg.



Wilt played in 37 "elimination" games (where either his team, or the opposing team faced elimination):

His team's went 24-13 in elimination games:

29.5 ppg,
26.1 rpg,
4.2 apg
.546 FG%



How about Wilt vs. Russell in their 4 game seven's?

Russell: 13.0 ppg, 24.5 rpg, .465 FG%
Wilt: 21.0 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .638 FG%

How about Wilt vs Russell in their 15 "elimination games"?

Russell: 14.6 ppg, 24.9 rpg, .442 FG%
Wilt: 27.5 ppg, 27.7 rpg, .505 FG%

Oh, and Wilt outscored Russell by a 14-1 margin, and outrebounded Russell by a 9-5-1 margin.




Arguably the greatest "clutch" playoff performer of all-time.

Nobody that hasn't won half of the finals they've played in deserves to be in the conversation for top 25 all-time.

1.MJ
2.Kobe
3.Bird
4.Jones
5.Dirk
6.Russell
7.Allen
8.Fisher
9.Hakeem
10.Horry

[Round Mound]

No Stockton?

What About Barkley and Duncan?

[LAZERUSS]

Nobody that hasn't won half of the finals they've played in deserves to be in the conversation for top 25 all-time.

1.MJ
2.Kobe
3.Bird
4.Jones
5.Dirk
6.Russell
7.Allen
8.Fisher
9.Hakeem
10.Horry

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe...CARRIED by Shaq in THREE of his Finals, and needed Ron Artest to win a game seven in another. Kobe is without a doubt, the worst Finals performer by a "GOAT" candidate in NBA history.

Bird? Beaten by Magic 2-1 (and needed the Lakers to HAND them TWO games in the '84 Finals to get that one series win.) Oh, and he wasn't even Boston's best player in one of his team's three Finals wins.

Hakeem? THREE Finals in 15 playoff seasons (and 18 overall.) Beaten in the FIRST ROUND in EIGHT of them (and ROUTED in FIVE of those.)

Only MJ, Russell, Jones, and Dirk should be on that laughable list. And Russell was either outplayed, or downright dominated by Wilt in all eight of their post-season H2H series.

[LAZERUSS]

Kobe?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Arguably the WORST Finals' performer of a Top-10 player all-time:


99-00
Regular season 22.5 ppg .468 FG%
Finals 15.6 ppg .367 FG%
Last Game of Series .296 FG%

00-01
Regular season 28.5 ppg .464 FG%
Finals 24.6 ppg .415 FG%
Last Game of Series .389 FG%

01-02
Regular season 25.2 ppg .469
Finals 26.8 ppg .514 FG%
Last Game of Series .438 FG%

03-04
Regular season 24.0 ppg .438 FG%
Finals 22.6 ppg .381 FG%
Last Game of Series .333 FG%

07-08
Regular season 28.3 ppg .459 FG%
Finals 25.7 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .318 FG%

08-09
Regular season 26.8 ppg .467 FG%
Finals 32.4 ppg .430 FG%
Last Game of Series .435 FG%

09-10
Regular season 27.0 ppg .456 FG%
Finals 28.6 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .250 FG%


Other noteables:


97-98
Swept by Utah 4-0.
Kobe averages 10.0 ppg on a .367 FG%

98-99
Swept by San Antonio 4-0
Last game of the series : Kobe 16 points on a .438 FG%

02-03
Lose to Spurs in WCF's, 4-2.
Last game loss by a score of 110-82 (Kobe with 20 points in a season in which he averaged 30 ppg)

03-04 Finals
Heavily favored Lakers lose to Pistons, 4-1.
In the clinching game five loss Kobe shoots .333 in a 100-87 loss (and LA was down 23 going into 4th quarter)

04-05
Team goes 34-48 and misses playoffs

05-06
Regular season 35.4 ppg .450
Playoffs 27.9 ppg .497
Last game (7) 24 points in a 121-90 loss (after blowing a 3-1 series lead)

06-07
Team goes 42-40
Loses in first round to Suns, 4-1.
Last game of that series, Kobe shoots .394 from the floor

07-08
Lakers are blown out by Celts in Finals.
In game four the Lakers blow a 23 point lead, and lose, in a game in which Kobe shot .316 from the field.
In the clinching game six loss, the Lakers lose by a Finals record margin of 131-92. Kobe shoots .318 from the floor.

10-11
Lakers with HCA are swept by the Mavs, 4-0.
In the clinching game four loss, LA loses 122-86. Kobe shoots .389 from the field.

[SexSymbol]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe...CARRIED by Shaq in THREE of his Finals, and needed Ron Artest to win a game seven in another. Kobe is without a doubt, the worst Finals performer by a "GOAT" candidate in NBA history.

Bird? Beaten by Magic 2-1 (and needed the Lakers to HAND them TWO games in the '84 Finals to get that one series win.) Oh, and he wasn't even Boston's best player in one of his team's three Finals wins.

Hakeem? THREE Finals in 15 playoff seasons (and 18 overall.) Beaten in the FIRST ROUND in EIGHT of them (and ROUTED in FIVE of those.)

Only MJ, Russell, Jones, and Dirk should be on that laughable list. And Russell was either outplayed, or downright dominated by Wilt in all eight of their post-season H2H series.

I know you love to *********e to old dead guys, but you have to be objective for a second.
I know all of the shit you pointed out, but it's irrelevant.
Kobe was a king of clutch, clinching division titles on miracle buzzer-beaters, bringing the team from down 15 in the 4th Q, owning SA and SAC multiple times in 4th quarters. Shaq was miserable in the clutch pretty much every game it was up to Kobe to step up. And step up he did.

Hakeem had one of the best runs ever in 94, one Wilt could only dream of having.

Bird bailed out that team that didn't underperform only two years he was there, many many times.

You should go back and watch the games, I know you hate this strange activity, but try it out. Btw, how was being gay in the 60s for you? Nice?

[LAZERUSS]

I know you love to *********e to old dead guys, but you have to be objective for a second.
I know all of the shit you pointed out, but it's irrelevant.
Kobe was a king of clutch, clinching division titles on miracle buzzer-beaters, bringing the team from down 15 in the 4th Q, owning SA and SAC multiple times in 4th quarters. Shaq was miserable in the clutch pretty much every game it was up to Kobe to step up. And step up he did.

Hakeem had one of the best runs ever in 94, one Wilt could only dream of having.

Bird bailed out that team that didn't underperform only two years he was there, many many times.

You should go back and watch the games, I know you hate this strange activity, but try it out. Btw, how was being gay in the 60s for you? Nice?

Shaq was miserable in the clutch?

Maybe YOU should watch those "three-peat" Finals again and get back to me.

Hakeem's '94 run was nowhere near as dominant as Wilt's '67 run. Hell, he didn't even face a legitimate starting center in his first three playoff series. Furthermore, his team barly eked out a game seven in the Finals, in a game in which he shot 40% from the field (and against an under-dog Knicks team that outscored the Rockets in that series.)

Bird? How about this:

Thanks to Colts18 BTW...


Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures while Dirk improves his play in the postseason:

1980- Averaged a .511 TS% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers, he shot poorly, 5-19 with just 12 points, as the Celtics lost the game. His man (Dr. J) averaged 25 PPG in this series. His team loses in 5 games despite having HCA and winning 61 games. Had a 18.3 PER in the postseason

1981- Has a .532 TS% in the postseason. He had a bad finals where he averaged just 15 PPG on .419 shooting and .460 TS%.

1982- PPG average dropped from 22.9 PPG to 17.8 PPG. He has an embarrassing .474 TS% in the playoffs. He averaged a pedestrian 18.3 PPG against the Sixers. Averages 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series. The Celtics lose again with HCA. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league. Has a 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983- The Celtics get swept by the Bucks. The Celtics win 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league and lose again with HCA. Bird plays awful again. .478 TS%. His PPG average drops 2 PPG in the playoffs. Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984- Great playoffs. Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and had a .607 TS% in the playoffs. First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers.

1985- Celtics make the finals, but Bird's numbers drop in the playoffs. His PPG drops by 2.8 PPG, Reb by 1.2 Reb, and AST by 0.7 AST. Had an average .536 TS% in the postseason. Bird plays even worse in the finals. His PPG dropped 4.9 PPG, his Reb 1.7 Reb, and AST by 1.6 AST in the finals compared to his regular season average. His Finals TS% is just .527. Not only that, but Celtics finish with 63 wins and lose once again with HCA a constant theme in Bird's career. This is the first time in Celtics history they lost in the finals with HCA.

1986- Great year. His best year ever. Wins the title. .615 TS% in the postseason and amazing finals.

1987- I think this is his most admirable playoffs up until the finals. The Celtics were quite banged up this year. Averaged 27-10-7 in the postseason with .577 TS%. Though his numbers in the finals dropped off once again. His PPG was 3.9 PPG down from the regular season, AST down by 2.1 AST and his TS% was just .534. In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting. In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting and .492 TS% with 3.7 TOV. This is the first time Bird has played without HCA in the playoffs and his team loses.

1988- Bird's PPG drops by 5.4 PPG, Reb by 0.5 Reb. Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons. Has a mediocre .538 TS% and 20.2 PER in the playoffs. The Celtics had HCA and the #1 SRS in the league and you probably guessed what happened next, Larry Bird loses with HCA once again.

1989- Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990- Bird shoots .539 TS% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again you guessed it, lose with HCA.

1991- In the first round, his team needs to go 5 vs. the 41 win Pacers. His PPG drop by 2.3 PPG and his Rebounds and Assists also drop quite a bit. Has a .490 TS% 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on .446 TS%. His 56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992- Doesn't play in the first round as the Celtics sweep the Pacers. In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, but Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. He has a .514 TS% and 16.4 PER in the postseason.


So out of 12 years, you get 9 years under .540 TS%, 5 under .520 TS%, and 3 under .500 TS%. From 80-83, he had a 19.9 playoff PER. In that span, Johnny Moore, Franklin Edwards, Gus Williams, and Bob Lanier all had better playoff PER and WS/48. Teammates Parish, McHale, Tiny Archibald, and Cedric Maxwell had better TS% in that span. From 88-92, he had a 18.8 PER which is 25th among players with 10 playoff games played. Players who had better playoff PER's in that span include Fat Lever, Terry Cummings, Roy Tarpley, Cedric Ceballos, and Sarunas Marciulionis. His teammates Reggie Lewis and Kevin McHale had better playoff PER's in that span.

With Bird you get a nice 4 year run that had 4 straight finals appearances but outside of that you get a 4 year span of .505 TS% (80-83) and a .525 TS% span (88-92). In 12 years, you get 7 losses with HCA. Basically out of Bird's 13 year career, you have 1 injury season and 3 non-descript postseasons at the end of his plus some playoff disappointments early in his career.

[tpols]

I think when op and his article describe clutch.. They mean guys who can get you a basket the best in a close game down the stretch. They don't mean big game performers.. Otherwise you'd see a lot more big men on the list.

Guys like wilt can't even hit a free throw when it counts much less score consecutive crunch time buckets.. If this was a least clutch list wilt mightve made it.

[LAZERUSS]

I think when op and his article describe clutch.. They mean guys who can get you a basket the best in a close game down the stretch. They don't mean big game performers.. Otherwise you'd see a lot more big men on the list.

Guys like wilt can't even hit a free throw when it counts much less score consecutive crunch time buckets.. If this was a least clutch list wilt mighty made it.

Give me a list of big close playoff games in which Wilt missed a FT down the stretch.

I can give you several in which he MADE FTs down the stretch, including game seven of the '62 EDF's, and game seven of the '65 EDF's. Oh, he was making key FGAs in the waning seconds of BOTH of those game's as well. (He scored Philly's last five points in game seven of the '62 EDF's, and six of Philly's last eight points in game seven of the '65 EDF's.)

I know I can come up with some more (Psileas probably can come up with even more than I can BTW.)

[pauk]

Thats his OPINION....

Ill stick to facts, one of them would be something like this: http://basketball.wikia.com/wiki/User:Hornean/Archive/NBA_and_WNBA/Game-Winning_Shooters

Michael Jordan's Game-Winning Shots - 30
Kobe Bryant's Game-Winning Shots - 28
Reggie Miller's Game-Winning Shots - 21
LeBron James' Game-Winning Shots - 18
Carmelo Anthony's Game-Winning Shots - 17
Vince Carter's Game-Winning Shots - 16
Dwyane Wade's Game-Winning Shots - 16
Larry Bird's Game-Winning Shots - 15
Dirk Nowitzki's Game-Winning Shots - 15
Allen Iverson's Game-Winning Shots - 14

[LAZERUSS]

I think when op and his article describe clutch.. They mean guys who can get you a basket the best in a close game down the stretch. They don't mean big game performers.. Otherwise you'd see a lot more big men on the list.

Guys like wilt can't even hit a free throw when it counts much less score consecutive crunch time buckets.. If this was a least clutch list wilt mightve made it.

BTW, wouldn't YOU classify "clutch" as playing brilliantly in a "must win" game?

And then there is the opposite, as well. Where a player stinks for nearly the entire game, and then hits a crucial shot down the stretch.

On a related note, how many times have you read where John Elway or Johnny Unitas were "clutch?" Those two were actually two of the biggest "chokers" in the biggest games of their careers. As an example, in the famous "the drive" game, Elway had been just horrfic until that last five minute drive, which tied the game. Had he played even ordinary in that game, and he wouldn't have needed to make that drive.

[LAZERUSS]

Thats his OPINION....

Ill stick to facts, one of them would be something like this: http://basketball.wikia.com/wiki/User:Hornean/Archive/NBA_and_WNBA/Game-Winning_Shooters

Michael Jordan's Game-Winning Shots - 30
Kobe Bryant's Game-Winning Shots - 28
Reggie Miller's Game-Winning Shots - 21
LeBron James' Game-Winning Shots - 18
Carmelo Anthony's Game-Winning Shots - 17
Vince Carter's Game-Winning Shots - 16
Dwyane Wade's Game-Winning Shots - 16
Larry Bird's Game-Winning Shots - 15
Dirk Nowitzki's Game-Winning Shots - 15
Allen Iverson's Game-Winning Shots - 14

That includes regular season games. BTW, Psileas can provide Wilt's ACTUAL game winning shots, which I believe were 11. And that doesn't include his game-saving blocks, either.

[tpols]

BTW, wouldn't YOU classify "clutch" as playing brilliantly in a "must win" game?

And then there is the opposite, as well. Where a player stinks for nearly the entire game, and then hits a crucial shot down the stretch.

On a related note, how many times have you read where John Elway or Johnny Unitas were "clutch?" Those two were actually two of the biggest "chokers" in the biggest games of their careers. As an example, in the famous "the drive" game, Elway had been just horrfic until that last five minute drive, which tied the game. Had he played even ordinary in that game, and he wouldn't have needed to make that drive.

That isn't what clutch is.. That's just being really good at basketball. Guy dominates has a great game quarters 1-4. Maybe 1-3 leading to a blowout, that's just being a dominating player in general.

The term clutch commonly refers to guys who take over close games late. I don't consider mutumbo more clutch than Allen Iverson if he outplays him all game but Iverson scores 15 straight in the fourth to come back and win it. Maybe mutumbo had the better game but he wasn't as clutch.

[LAZERUSS]

That isn't what clutch is.. That's just being really good at basketball. Guy dominates has a great game quarters 1-4. Maybe 1-3 leading to a blowout, that's just being a dominating player in general.

The term clutch commonly refers to guys who take over close games late. I don't consider mutumbo more clutch than Allen Iverson if he outplays him all game but Iverson scores 15 straight in the fourth to come back and win it. Maybe mutumbo had the better game but he wasn't as clutch.

Well, I would take the dominant guy over the "clutch" guy in any game, then...unless he did BOTH.

[pauk]

His list is stupid because he didnt pick a criteria..... he kept changing criteria for every player....

"yea yea this guy maybe never hit a gamewinning shot in his life, but he performed great under pressure bla bla, hence top 10 clutch, better in clutch than many MANY guys who actually were better players & performed better when under pressure & who hit many many MANY more clutch shots"

"yea yea this guy sucked, couldnt perform under pressure, just a roleplayer, but he hit some memorable gamewinners, hence (Horry) > Lebron, Wade, Julius, Carmelo, Nowitzki, Iverson, Durant, Isiah, Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Allen, Duncan, Barkley and so on and so on"

Not picking a criteria means he just went after bias / what he has seen in highlights.... like that T-Mac 13 pts in 35 sec thing..... "Thirteen points in the last 35 seconds, Rockets beat the Spurs by one. Are you kidding me?"......... No, are YOU kidding me? Thats basically his entire career right there, thats ALL he has ever done...... Not only did he place him over much better clutch players, but over Kobe aswell?? Better yet, Horry there... over Kobe aswell.... wowzers.....

[LAZERUSS]

Clutch?

MJ
Wilt
Lebron
West
Magic
KAJ
Shaq
Dr. J
Dirk
Worthy
S. Jones
Hondo
Russell
Petit
Bird
Kobe

You can argue the order, but that is as impressive a list as you will find.

[andgar923]

Thats his OPINION....

Ill stick to facts, one of them would be something like this: http://basketball.wikia.com/wiki/User:Hornean/Archive/NBA_and_WNBA/Game-Winning_Shooters

Michael Jordan's Game-Winning Shots - 30
Kobe Bryant's Game-Winning Shots - 28
Reggie Miller's Game-Winning Shots - 21
LeBron James' Game-Winning Shots - 18
Carmelo Anthony's Game-Winning Shots - 17
Vince Carter's Game-Winning Shots - 16
Dwyane Wade's Game-Winning Shots - 16
Larry Bird's Game-Winning Shots - 15
Dirk Nowitzki's Game-Winning Shots - 15
Allen Iverson's Game-Winning Shots - 14

Percentages.

What do those stats mean in context.

I would also like to know when these stats were counted. It can't be a coincidence that those are all modern day players for the most part. Im assuming that cats like Erving, Iceman and others had a number of them as well.

[andgar923]

That includes regular season games. BTW, Psileas can provide Wilt's ACTUAL game winning shots, which I believe were 11. And that doesn't include his game-saving blocks, either.

If we're going to include game saving defensive plays then MJ's name should also be included in the top 10 for sure. Easily in the top 5 for modern era, I would like to know how he fared with the great big men of the past.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, who would you consider more "clutch?"

Kobe's game seven in the '10 Finals, in a win...or West's game seven in the '69 Finals, in a loss?

[chazzy]

BTW, who would you consider more "clutch?"

Kobe's game seven in the '10 Finals, in a win...or West's game seven in the '69 Finals, in a loss?
Why'd you go all rogue on Kobe this past year jlauber? Deuce bothering you that much?

[Psileas]

I think when op and his article describe clutch.. They mean guys who can get you a basket the best in a close game down the stretch. They don't mean big game performers.. Otherwise you'd see a lot more big men on the list.

Guys like wilt can't even hit a free throw when it counts much less score consecutive crunch time buckets.. If this was a least clutch list wilt mightve made it.

:oldlol: Wilt has hit almost as many game winning shots and FT's as Magic and Hakeem and way more than other legends like Shaq or Russell and he's actually known for hitting FT's in moments that mattered the most. In general, only Kareem among big men has a somewhat decent advantage over him, and that's, of course, with 6 (practically 7) more career seasons under his belt.
I've posted lists of his game-winning shots and crucial FT's made.
I've asked anyone to post crucial missed FT's by Wilt and nobody could respond.

BUT, if the twisted definition of clutch includes only players who dominate late on, then, yes, Wilt is guilty of dominating whole games and wouldn't belong there. So are others, like Jordan, Bird, West, etc, so take them off, as well.

[LAZERUSS]

If we're going to include game saving defensive plays then MJ's name should also be included in the top 10 for sure. Easily in the top 5 for modern era, I would like to know how he fared with the great big men of the past.

I couldn't give you Russell's overall impact at the defensive end, but Chamberlain ROUTINELY shut down, or dramatically altered his opposing center's offensive production in the post-season.

For example, in the clinching game six (on the road) in the '72 WCF's, Chamberlain held KAJ to 2-8 shooting in the 4th quarter (and just abused him on the offensive end, as well.) And for the series, he held that PEAK Kareem to a .457 FG%, in a season in which KAJ shot .574 against the NBA. Oh, and in the last four pivotal games of that series, he held Kareem to a ghastly .414 FG%.

In their '71 post-season H2H, Chamberlain held KAJ to 25 ppg on .481 shooting, in a regular season in which Kareem averaged 31.7 ppg on a .577 FG%.

Oh, and in their two clinching post-season H2H games...Chamberlain shot 18-33 (.545) from the field, while he held KAJ to 23-60 (.383.)

I could provide series-after-series in which Chamberlain dramatically limited his opposing center's efficiency.

[jlip]

:
I've posted lists of his game-winning shots and crucial FT's made.



Do you have a link to that post?

[tpols]

:oldlol: Wilt has hit almost as many game winning shots and FT's as Magic and Hakeem and way more than other legends like Shaq or Russell and he's actually known for hitting FT's in moments that mattered the most. In general, only Kareem among big men has a somewhat decent advantage over him, and that's, of course, with 6 (practically 7) more career seasons under his belt.
I've posted lists of his game-winning shots and crucial FT's made.
I've asked anyone to post crucial missed FT's by Wilt and nobody could respond.

BUT, if the twisted definition of clutch includes only players who dominate late on, then, yes, Wilt is guilty of dominating whole games and wouldn't belong there. So are others, like Jordan, Bird, West, etc, so take them off, as well.
Um.. I'm pretty sure Jordan was known for dominating close games late. Just a little bit.

And the definition isn't twisted.. It's what it's always been referred to as.

[Prometheus]

If what Bill Russell says is absolutely true, then Sam Jones ought to be unanimously regarded as the #1 clutch basketball player of all time.

Otherwise I can only really comment on what I've watched: footage of playoff series from the 1980s and live television thereafter.

My top five would be:

Jordan
Bird
Reggie
Horry
Magic

[LAZERUSS]

Do you have a link to that post?

nbastats.net has Wilt with a KNOWN 11 game-winning shots. I am not sure on his game winning FTAs, but he I believe he hit two FTs in game three of the '70 WCF's, to send the game into OT, where they went on to win 115-114, and he was credited with the game winning shot, as well.

I believe Psileas also had some game-saving block info, as well. Oh, and in the clinching game six win of the '67 Finals, Wilt's defensive play saved the game. He didn't block Barry's shot, but he altered it badly. I forget who grabbed the rebound, and hit the two final FTs, but that played won the game, despite Philly's 125-122 win.

[pastis]

nobody mentions Dirk in terms of being clutch player?:facepalm :facepalm

but gamma-male garnett considering above him by biatches (all time).
beta-barkley etc as well :facepalm :facepalm

DIRK is one of the clutchest players in NBA history. get the hell outta here with KOBE etc

so much disrespect to dirk. its incredible. it must stop.

oh i see from a rockets fan.no wonder he doesnt mention dirk this fvcking clown

[kamil]

where is lebron on this list?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106070DAL.html

[IncarceratedBob]

nobody mentions Dirk in terms of being clutch player?:facepalm :facepalm

but gamma-male garnett considering above him by biatches (all time).
beta-barkley etc as well :facepalm :facepalm

DIRK is one of the clutchest players in NBA history. get the hell outta here with KOBE etc

so much disrespect to dirk. its incredible. it must stop.

oh i see from a rockets fan.no wonder he doesnt mention dirk this fvcking clown
he wasn't clutch when his mavs got rocked by an 8 seed.

[Psileas]

Do you have a link to that post?

Here's the list:

1. Nov 10, 1959 vs New York (and 3 GW blocked shots in a row)
2. Nov 28, 1959 @ New York
3. Mar 4, 1961 vs Syracuse (FT's)
4. Feb 19, 1963 vs L.A Lakers
5. Dec 8, 1963 @ L.A Lakers (FT's)
6. Dec 28, 1963 @ Baltimore (interestingly, just one game later, he sank the OT basket)
7. Feb 23, 1964 vs L.A Lakers (he played injured and scored his team's last 5 points)
8. Mar 5, 1965 @ Cincinnati (scored 16 in 4th Q, blocked 2 shots in the last 18'', he scored the OT basket 3 games later)
9. Mar 24, 1965 @ Cincinnati (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's, while playing in the last games with a stomach ailment)
10. Dec 29, 1965 @ Detroit (FT)
11. Apr 17, 1970 vs Atlanta (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's in the end of OT).

Notice that some of them are FT's - and, yes, that's a plural, 2-2 FT's for each case.
The poster ThaRegul8r had claimed that his own list had 4 additional such cases, but never mentioned which games these are. So, the actual number may be anywhere between 11 and (at least) 15 - the latter number would bring his totals literally at Larry Bird levels.


nbastats.net has Wilt with a KNOWN 11 game-winning shots. I am not sure on his game winning FTAs, but he I believe he hit two FTs in game three of the '70 WCF's, to send the game into OT, where they went on to win 115-114, and he was credited with the game winning shot, as well.

They took the info from my list, which is why Wilt is the only player among the others who has had his game-winning shots mentioned. However, they didn't separate FG's from FT's.


Um.. I'm pretty sure Jordan was known for dominating close games late. Just a little bit.

And the definition isn't twisted.. It's what it's always been referred to as.

Look at my list I just (re)posted then and my comments below it and tell me with a straight face how Wilt would belong anywhere near an "unclutch players" list.

[StephHamann]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtuPbU2CYAAtRgC.jpg

/Thread

[PHILA]

Here's the list:

Yes, this doesn't even include the key FT's made down the stretch of games, like in Game 6 of the 1967 Finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=22m5s



Um.. I'm pretty sure Jordan was known for dominating close games late. Just a little bit.

This is a great example of Jordan helping seal the road playoff win, relying on his explosive quickness even more than his outside jump shot.

1990 Game 4 vs. Sixers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLpMAFNpo4&t=3m45s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLpMAFNpo4&t=3m45s)


If we had clutch statistics for some of these older legends it would be incredible. For instance Jordan in the playoffs lived up to his reputation, peaking from 1990-1992.

Below we can see his clutch statistics per 48 minutes, as defined by 82games.com for his top three playoff runs. He nearly doubled his scoring rate in crunch time while also seeing a huge increase in shooting efficiency.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322375

"4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

http://i.imgur.com/Fs2veHQ.png

[LAZERUSS]

Here's the list:

1. Nov 10, 1959 vs New York (and 3 GW blocked shots in a row)
2. Nov 28, 1959 @ New York
3. Mar 4, 1961 vs Syracuse (FT's)
4. Feb 19, 1963 vs L.A Lakers
5. Dec 8, 1963 @ L.A Lakers (FT's)
6. Dec 28, 1963 @ Baltimore (interestingly, just one game later, he sank the OT basket)
7. Feb 23, 1964 vs L.A Lakers (he played injured and scored his team's last 5 points)
8. Mar 5, 1965 @ Cincinnati (scored 16 in 4th Q, blocked 2 shots in the last 18'', he scored the OT basket 3 games later)
9. Mar 24, 1965 @ Cincinnati (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's, while playing in the last games with a stomach ailment)
10. Dec 29, 1965 @ Detroit (FT)
11. Apr 17, 1970 vs Atlanta (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's in the end of OT).

Notice that some of them are FT's - and, yes, that's a plural, 2-2 FT's for each case.
The poster ThaRegul8r had claimed that his own list had 4 additional such cases, but never mentioned which games these are. So, the actual number may be anywhere between 11 and (at least) 15 - the latter number would bring his totals literally at Larry Bird levels.



They took the info from my list, which is why Wilt is the only player among the others who has had his game-winning shots mentioned. However, they didn't separate FG's from FT's.



Look at my list I just (re)posted then and my comments below it and tell me with a straight face how Wilt would belong anywhere near an "unclutch players" list.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

As for Wilt...

:bowdown:

[jlip]

Here's the list:

1. Nov 10, 1959 vs New York (and 3 GW blocked shots in a row)
2. Nov 28, 1959 @ New York
3. Mar 4, 1961 vs Syracuse (FT's)
4. Feb 19, 1963 vs L.A Lakers
5. Dec 8, 1963 @ L.A Lakers (FT's)
6. Dec 28, 1963 @ Baltimore (interestingly, just one game later, he sank the OT basket)
7. Feb 23, 1964 vs L.A Lakers (he played injured and scored his team's last 5 points)
8. Mar 5, 1965 @ Cincinnati (scored 16 in 4th Q, blocked 2 shots in the last 18'', he scored the OT basket 3 games later)
9. Mar 24, 1965 @ Cincinnati (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's, while playing in the last games with a stomach ailment)
10. Dec 29, 1965 @ Detroit (FT)
11. Apr 17, 1970 vs Atlanta (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's in the end of OT).

Notice that some of them are FT's - and, yes, that's a plural, 2-2 FT's for each case.
The poster ThaRegul8r had claimed that his own list had 4 additional such cases, but never mentioned which games these are. So, the actual number may be anywhere between 11 and (at least) 15 - the latter number would bring his totals literally at Larry Bird levels.



They took the info from my list, which is why Wilt is the only player among the others who has had his game-winning shots mentioned. However, they didn't separate FG's from FT's.



Look at my list I just (re)posted then and my comments below it and tell me with a straight face how Wilt would belong anywhere near an "unclutch players" list.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Psileas]

Yes, this doesn't even include the key FT's made down the stretch of games, like in Game 6 of the 1967 Finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=22m5s

Correct, these are still clutch points, but they don't meet my criteria. I only listed instances when Wilt scored the basket/FT that gave his team the last lead and the score remained unchanged after this - which is what I consider to be a real game-winning shot.

[SexSymbol]

BTW, who would you consider more "clutch?"

Kobe's game seven in the '10 Finals, in a win...or West's game seven in the '69 Finals, in a loss?
Kobe's obviously.
His team won, he scored like 10 points in the 4th, rebounded clutch rebounds and defended better than anybody on the court in a defensive minded game.

Jerry West with his old skillset wouldn't make the team today, c'mon now.

[Hoopz2332]

1. Jordan
2. Kobe

Kobe has the most game winners of all time, but MJ was more efficient.


Kobe really isn't that clutch. Dude has missed waayyyyyymore than he made but we only remember the ones that went in and were shown on Tv/Sportscenter/highlight videos:facepalm



Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)


[quote][b]In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as

[Hoopz2332]

What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch


Kobe isn't Clutch:

Despite all of his clutch fame, Kobe has had his skeptics. Most non-Laker fans hold this opinion. Some of this skepticism is based purely on hate, and other is based off of facts. Recently, ESPN analysts have criticized Kobe's numbers and how they deceive people in articles like this and this. What, exactly, makes Kobe so not clutch?

While Kobe has made a ton of clutch shots over his career, he has missed significantly more. Between 2000 and 2012, Kobe shot by far the highest number of attempts (230) in the final minute of games with a margin of five points or fewer for regular season games. Of those 230 attempts, he only made 80 of them. 80/230 puts him at a mediocre 34.8%, only slightly above the atrocious league average of 33.7%. This means that for every clutch basket that Kobe makes, he has 1.87 clutch misses. If those numbers are considered worthy of being considered one of the clutchest players of all time, Amar'e Stoudemire should be up there, as well. When your clutch numbers are worse than this guy, you probably should join a depression clinic before an all-clutch NBA team.

Regular season games are great and all, but the playoffs are the games that really matter. If you think Kobe's clutch numbers are better there, boy are you wrong. In the final minute of playoff games where the margin is within five points, Kobe has gone 10/31. That's 32.3%, which means that for every one amazing make Kobe has he has 2.09 bricks. Granted this playoff number comes in a small sample size; LeBron James (apparent, notable choke artist) has actually made the same number of clutch shots in the final minute of a playoff game as Kobe between 2000 and 2012 with 11 fewer attempts. That's not even including the plethora of clutch makes LeBron had against the Pacers and Spurs. Kobe's numbers are certainly not indicative of a player who shows up in big games.

As much of an offensive threat as Kobe is, one would expect that the Lakers would have a top-notch offense in crunch time of close games. To see a complete recap of just how bad Kobe and the Lakers' crunch time numbers are, you should check out Henry Abbott's Truehoop article posted a few years ago. One of the most stunning excerpts from this article is:

You'd expect Los Angeles to also have one of the league's best offenses in crunch time, right? Especially with the ball in the hands of the player most suited to those moments.

That's not what happens, though. In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions...

The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch-time offense -- instead, they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time.

When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.

Kobe is said to be the clutchest player of all time, yet the Lakers' offensive numbers beg to differ.


http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/9/9/4683058/kobe-bryant-clutch-stephen-hawking


This Kobe clutch narrative has to stop:oldlol:

[Sakkreth]

Kobe is negative player to have with game on the line, so he's not top 500.

[LAZERUSS]

Here's the list:

1. Nov 10, 1959 vs New York (and 3 GW blocked shots in a row)
2. Nov 28, 1959 @ New York
3. Mar 4, 1961 vs Syracuse (FT's)
4. Feb 19, 1963 vs L.A Lakers
5. Dec 8, 1963 @ L.A Lakers (FT's)
6. Dec 28, 1963 @ Baltimore (interestingly, just one game later, he sank the OT basket)
7. Feb 23, 1964 vs L.A Lakers (he played injured and scored his team's last 5 points)
8. Mar 5, 1965 @ Cincinnati (scored 16 in 4th Q, blocked 2 shots in the last 18'', he scored the OT basket 3 games later)
9. Mar 24, 1965 @ Cincinnati (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's, while playing in the last games with a stomach ailment)
10. Dec 29, 1965 @ Detroit (FT)
11. Apr 17, 1970 vs Atlanta (Playoffs. Hits winning FT's in the end of OT).

Notice that some of them are FT's - and, yes, that's a plural, 2-2 FT's for each case.
The poster ThaRegul8r had claimed that his own list had 4 additional such cases, but never mentioned which games these are. So, the actual number may be anywhere between 11 and (at least) 15 - the latter number would bring his totals literally at Larry Bird levels.



They took the info from my list, which is why Wilt is the only player among the others who has had his game-winning shots mentioned. However, they didn't separate FG's from FT's.



Look at my list I just (re)posted then and my comments below it and tell me with a straight face how Wilt would belong anywhere near an "unclutch players" list.


This.

ISH really needs to sticky this, as well as this...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332617

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron being the best elimination player surely should be on this list.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yes, this doesn't even include the key FT's made down the stretch of games, like in Game 6 of the 1967 Finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0faQ-6RJyA&t=22m5s




This is a great example of Jordan helping seal the road playoff win, relying on his explosive quickness even more than his outside jump shot.

1990 Game 4 vs. Sixers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLpMAFNpo4&t=3m45s
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMLpMAFNpo4&t=3m45s)


If we had clutch statistics for some of these older legends it would be incredible. For instance Jordan in the playoffs lived up to his reputation, peaking from 1990-1992.

Below we can see his clutch statistics per 48 minutes, as defined by 82games.com for his top three playoff runs. He nearly doubled his scoring rate in crunch time while also seeing a huge increase in shooting efficiency.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322375

"4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

http://i.imgur.com/Fs2veHQ.png

I've seen these numbers before, but they're still amazing. No one in history comes close to Jordan as a late game player. A couple are close in terms of last second shots (Bird), but for the final 4-6 minutes of a game, give me Jordan every day.

[Hoopz2332]

Why do people keep mentioning Durant? he actually has pretty ehh clutch numbers:confusedshrug: