ISH's official ranking of the 5 greatest centers of all time

[SouBeachTalents]

Just rank the 5 following from 1-5: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, & Shaq. They'll get different points for each position they're ranked at, and we'll tally up the points and rank them based on the voting results

It's very simple, here's how many points they get for each position they're ranked at
1. 5 points
2. 4 points
3. 3 points
4. 2 points
5. 1 point

Edit

Standings so far

Kareem: 198
Russell: 146
Wilt: 146
Shaq: 127
Hakeem: 77

[Smook A.]

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Why am I limited to those 5?

[oarabbus]

1. Russell
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[r0drig0lac]

1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. KAJ
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[ArbitraryWater]

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Shaq

Already so split on 2/3, but I really can't decide between Hakeem and Russell, for now...

But give those men right there their points, if we actually count this.

Kareem should be undisputed 1.


Why am I limited to those 5?

Because nobody else makes sense... Unless you consider Duncan a C.

[Akrazotile]

1. Russell
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem


If Russell is the top C of all time is Rodman the top PF?

[LBJ4MVP23]

All time lists should be a combination of team achievement given the relevant talent of your team (cant expect to win titles with no help, but if youre missing playoffs with ok help thats an issue); individual achievements (mvps, DPOY, scoring leader, boards leader, etc.); and individual ability (how good are you compared to another guy plain and simple)

I think Wilt was head and shoulders above Russell in terms of ability, but he doesnt have the team achievements. KAJ is absolutely unbelievable, but the guy wasnt a real winner in his true prime. So it all has to be factored in

1. KAJ
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[T_L_P]

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Wilt

[Done_And_Done]

Kaj
Wilt
Russ
Shaq
Hakeem

Prime Shaq eats them all imo though

[oarabbus]

If Russell is the top C of all time is Rodman the top PF?

He's didn't have the highest peak, but he is the greatest C. Greatness IMO has much to do with accolades and achievements.

Russell has 11 rings and won 8 straight. That level of winning is absurd and unparalleled in sports history at least among major sports. That is "greatness". Elevated his game in the playoffs and won when it matters, and outplayed the clearly more talented Wilt amongst other Cs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. Mikan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Wilt

6. Hakeem

[Cold soul]

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[Akrazotile]

He's didn't have the highest peak, but he is the greatest C. Greatness IMO has much to do with accolades and achievements.

Russell has 11 rings and won 8 straight. That level of winning is absurd and unparalleled in sports history at least among major sports. That is "greatness". Elevated his game in the playoffs and won when it matters, and outplayed the clearly more talented Wilt amongst other Cs.


First of all Im not trying to downgrade Russell, but simply point out inconsistencies in peoples logic. There were only 8 or 9 teams when Russell played! Also he was frequently not even first team all-nba at center.

Russell was a fantastic defensive player on a team loaded with offensive, HOF talent, and together that combination won numerous titles. Giving disproportionate credit for that to Russell because he was on the team for 11 of them is like saying Horry wouldnt have been on seven title teams without being a HOF caliber player. Russell was limited in some aspects and had the good fortune, much like Kobe, to play his career for a top flight organization. It doesnt seem like you are taking any of that into account. "11 rings" is no better an argument for Russell than "7 rings" is for Horry. And again, Russell began each season with a 1/8 chance of winning the championship. Subsequent players started with a 1/15 chance, a 1/22 chance and eventually a 1/30 chance. Its much easier to be "GOATWINNER" when you have 300% better odds of winning a chip before even playing a minute.

[outbreak]

1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[Akrazotile]

1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem



:facepalm

[PsychoBe]

First of all Im not trying to downgrade Russell, but simply point out inconsistencies in peoples logic. There were only 8 or 9 teams when Russell played! Also he was frequently not even first team all-nba at center.

Russell was a fantastic defensive player on a team loaded with offensive, HOF talent, and together that combination won numerous titles. Giving disproportionate credit for that to Russell because he was on the team for 11 of them is like saying Horry wouldnt have been on seven title teams without being a HOF caliber player. Russell was limited in some aspects and had the good fortune, much like Kobe, to play his career for a top flight organization. It doesnt seem like you are taking any of that into account. "11 rings" is no better an argument for Russell than "7 rings" is for Horry. And again, Russell began each season with a 1/8 chance of winning the championship. Subsequent players started with a 1/15 chance, a 1/22 chance and eventually a 1/30 chance. Its much easier to be "GOATWINNER" when you have 300% better odds of winning a chip before even playing a minute.

but that also means that less talent would be spread out and that each and every night was a dogfight for russell. he didn't have the luxury of facing the brandon jennings bucks in the first round of the playoffs :lol

[tpols]

but that also means that less talent would be spread out and that each and every night was a dogfight for russell. he didn't have the luxury of facing the brandon jennings bucks in the first round of the playoffs :lol

He had to fight through the Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain and Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, and Walt Bellamy monstar laker/knicks teams though.

[outbreak]

:facepalm

Regardless of the era I still see Russell as the greatest centre of all time.

[Akrazotile]

Regardless of the era I still see Russell as the greatest centre of all time.


Thats fine. Youre certainly entitled to that opinion. My opinion is that you arent qualified to rank him, at least not with any sort of credibility, and thats my opinion that Im entitled to. So we agree to disagree.

[PsychoBe]

Thats fine. Youre certainly entitled to that opinion. My opinion is that you arent qualified to rank him, at least not with any sort of credibility, and thats my opinion that Im entitled to. So we agree to disagree.

no you're just wrong on so many levels :roll: :roll: :roll:

just go educate yourself. just because something happened "a long time ago" doesn't give you the right to out-right discredit it without doing your own research. kids these days have google and don't even know how to use it :oldlol:

[outbreak]

Thats fine. Youre certainly entitled to that opinion. My opinion is that you arent qualified to rank him, at least not with any sort of credibility, and thats my opinion that Im entitled to. So we agree to disagree.

Yeah your entitled to that opinion, similar to how my opinion of you is that you just want to push agendas and have never actually watched any vintage era basketball. But we can agree to disagree.

[T_L_P]

I think people are seriously overlooking Russell's intangibles here. Having a guy who is all about the team is a priceless commodity.

How many dynasties won in-spite of each other? The Shaq-Kobe Lakers? They had one of the best locker room guys in league history and the best coach ever, who had a knack for managing egos. And the Lakers were still taken to the bring many times by less talented teams (who happened to have great chemistry, which adds to my point).

Heck, Hakeem didn't win until he became an actual leader (admittedly with more help).

Russell is the greatest winner ever, and the greatest leader ever. His game evolved around his teammates', making sure he covered up their flaws, keeping them satisfied with touches, and generally doing whatever was needed to win.

That's why guys like Russell, Duncan, Walton (given the number of healthy years he had) were so successful, even without necessarily having the natural talent of other players.

TL;DR: intangibles rule.

[Round Mound]

1-Wilt
2-Kareem
3-Shaq
4-Hakeem
5-Robinson

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt
KAJ
Russell
Shaq
Moses (the "Kareem Killer")

[Fudge]

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Shaq
4. Wilt
5. Hakeem

[Timmy D for MVP]

Russell
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem

[LAZERUSS]

He's didn't have the highest peak, but he is the greatest C. Greatness IMO has much to do with accolades and achievements.

Russell has 11 rings and won 8 straight. That level of winning is absurd and unparalleled in sports history at least among major sports. That is "greatness". Elevated his game in the playoffs and won when it matters, and outplayed the clearly more talented Wilt amongst other Cs.

Go ahead and post the playoff games, and series, in which Russell outplayed Chamberlain.


Maybe in a handful of their 49 post-season H2H games (and Wilt was playing injured in those.) Overall, Chamberlain just crushed Russell in the post-season.

[bdreason]

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[fpliii]

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq

[Timmy D for MVP]

Go ahead and post the playoff games, and series, in which Russell outplayed Chamberlain.


Maybe in a handful of their 49 post-season H2H games (and Wilt was playing injured in those.) Overall, Chamberlain just crushed Russell in the post-season.

85-57

9-1 titles during their cohabitation.

What he wrote is wrong, Russell didn't terribly outperform him, but that is a huge sample size and it very clearly favors Russell.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaq

[Bless Mathews]

First of all Im not trying to downgrade Russell, but simply point out inconsistencies in peoples logic. There were only 8 or 9 teams when Russell played! Also he was frequently not even first team all-nba at center.

Russell was a fantastic defensive player on a team loaded with offensive, HOF talent, and together that combination won numerous titles. Giving disproportionate credit for that to Russell because he was on the team for 11 of them is like saying Horry wouldnt have been on seven title teams without being a HOF caliber player. Russell was limited in some aspects and had the good fortune, much like Kobe, to play his career for a top flight organization. It doesnt seem like you are taking any of that into account. "11 rings" is no better an argument for Russell than "7 rings" is for Horry. And again, Russell began each season with a 1/8 chance of winning the championship. Subsequent players started with a 1/15 chance, a 1/22 chance and eventually a 1/30 chance. Its much easier to be "GOATWINNER" when you have 300% better odds of winning a chip before even playing a minute.

Damn.

Slay of the year nominee.

[j3lademaster]

but that also means that less talent would be spread out and that each and every night was a dogfight for russell. he didn't have the luxury of facing the brandon jennings bucks in the first round of the playoffs :lolBut the competition is also watered down. You didn't have international scouting, high school kids bound for the league practicing 8 hours a day etc. There could have been a kid in Africa with Wilt's physical gifts who was never discovered because of the lack of scouting, or an advertising manager who could have been better than Sam Jones but chose his profession because it paid much better, but we'll never know because the pool of talent was so small.

[Bless Mathews]

1. Shaq
2. Kareem
3. Hakeem

[Timmy D for MVP]

But the competition is also watered down. You didn't have international scouting, high school kids bound for the league practicing 8 hours a day etc. There could have been a kid in Africa with Wilt's physical gifts who was never discovered because of the lack of scouting, or an advertising manager who could have been better than Sam Jones but chose his profession because it paid much better, but we'll never know because the pool of talent was so small.

So then... we can only rate Shaq? Maybe Hakeem?

That logic can extend to every era except the current one. And that evolves over time as the game continues to grow.

[Prometheus]

If I'm giving each of these guys the benefit of the doubt (and ranking them by their careers), then I've got:

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Shaq
4. Wilt
5. Hakeem

If I'm shooting straight, picking them for my team, and/or ranking them by how good I truly believe they were, then I've got:

1. Wilt
2. Hakeem
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Shaq

Sorry but I'm pretty certain that if Auerbach had been coaching Wilt Chamberlain alongside Cousy, Sharman, Heinsohn, Havlicek, etc... they would have never lost.

And what if Hakeem was playing for the Lakers in Magic's day? Do we really think they would have been any worse off? Would Hakeem have been winning MVPs in the '70s? I think so...

Basically I think that the career resumes of the top-tier centers are the ones that need to be considered with the largest grains of salt, that their respective successes and failures have the most to do with their respective circumstances and are the least indicative of their true greatness.

[j3lademaster]

So then... we can only rate Shaq? Maybe Hakeem?

That logic can extend to every era except the current one. And that evolves over time as the game continues to grow.No, we can only rate them on how dominant they were against their peers. My response was solely to him thinking the league was tougher at the time. I disagree and I think there's a reason no other era had such a large discrepancy in superstar vs role player performance wise.

You can somewhat compare players across eras also. I've seen Lazerus do this a lot with the whole Wilt dominating KAJ into KAJ dominating Hakeem and seeing how Hakeem has played against Shaq and how Shaq's compared to the talent of today. It's crude but it's the closest we can get and does hold some logic to it.

[j3lademaster]

So then... we can only rate Shaq? Maybe Hakeem?

That logic can extend to every era except the current one. And that evolves over time as the game continues to grow.Also to the bolded, when the game has this kind of global revenue and popularity you have to expect the talent pool to have at least plateaued to a certain extent. Maybe if bball ever overcomes soccer as the #1 sport in the world then the talent pool can increase marginally.

[aj1987]

In what world is Russell a better player than Shaq?

1. Wilt
2. KAJ
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Russell

[Timmy D for MVP]

No, we can only rate them on how dominant they were against their peers. My response was solely to him thinking the league was tougher at the time. I disagree and I think there's a reason no other era had such a large discrepancy in superstar vs role player performance wise.

You can somewhat compare players across eras also. I've seen Lazerus do this a lot with the whole Wilt dominating KAJ into KAJ dominating Hakeem and seeing how Hakeem has played against Shaq and how Shaq's compared to the talent of today. It's crude but it's the closest we can get and does hold some logic to it.

So if you are going merely by how the rated against their peers then yes his era would be hardest. A condensed league meant more concentrated talent.

[AirFederer]

Shaq
Kareem
Russell
Hakeem
Wilt

[Timmy D for MVP]

Also to the bolded, when the game has this kind of global revenue and popularity you have to expect the talent pool to have at least plateaued to a certain extent. Maybe if bball ever overcomes soccer as the #1 sport in the world then the talent pool can increase marginally.

Correct, 30 years from now we may look back and see this as a smaller talent pool because basketball increased in popularity.

[DatAsh]

1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

For me, top 3 are really close.

[Pointguard]

1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt

[Genaro]

Kareem
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Moses Malone

[MP.Trey]

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Hakeem

[Papaya Petee]

1.)Shaq
2.)KAJ
3.)Wilt
4.)Hakeem
5.)Russell

(Judging by their basketball skills\dominance, not accomplishments)

[Smoke117]

1. KAJ
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Shaq
5. Russell

[La Frescobaldi]

Just rank the 5 following from 1-5: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, & Shaq. They'll get different points for each position they're ranked at, and we'll tally up the points and rank them based on the voting results

It's very simple, here's how many points they get for each position they're ranked at
1. 5 points
2. 4 points
3. 3 points
4. 2 points
5. 1 point
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon

I freely admit bias; I watched all these guys play on national and local tv, from the stands, and Russell-Chamberlain several times from front row. But I only saw Russell when he was old, and Chamberlain completely over-mastered him. Those Celtics teams were so good, it's hard to understand today. They were like the modern day Spurs... played together for years and years, knew what the other guys were going to do and where they'd be all the time. But much, much more stacked than any team we've seen since except maybe '80s Celtics-Lakers in some years. No other teams are even close.

More bias; I watched Chamberlain-Jabbar also. Jabbar outplayed Chamberlain several games - more than a few - but it was much, much closer than anything I ever saw from the earlier rivalry. Here again Age was an enormous factor, but also the terrific knee injury that 13 sustained completely changed his game style. The few highlights of a slippery Chamberlain as a Laker pale before the Wilt of '66-'68.

Still more bias; this list is invalid. Olajuwon was not as great as Moses Malone. He had better defense, but the rest of the game belongs to Mo.

And yet more bias; Shaq just flat rocked like Van Halen's first album. Even if you don't like that style you gotta admire all that transcendent, thunderous talent.

[JohnFreeman]

Kareem
Hakeem
Shaq
Wilt
Boogie

[iTare]

KAJ
Wilt
Olajuwon
Shaq
Russell

[LAZERUSS]

1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon

I freely admit bias; I watched all these guys play on national and local tv, from the stands, and Russell-Chamberlain several times from front row. But I only saw Russell when he was old, and Chamberlain completely over-mastered him. Those Celtics teams were so good, it's hard to understand today. They were like the modern day Spurs... played together for years and years, knew what the other guys were going to do and where they'd be all the time. But much, much more stacked than any team we've seen since except maybe '80s Celtics-Lakers in some years. No other teams are even close.

More bias; I watched Chamberlain-Jabbar also. Jabbar outplayed Chamberlain several games - more than a few - but it was much, much closer than anything I ever saw from the earlier rivalry. Here again Age was an enormous factor, but also the terrific knee injury that 13 sustained completely changed his game style. The few highlights of a slippery Chamberlain as a Laker pale before the Wilt of '66-'68.

Still more bias; this list is invalid. Olajuwon was not as great as Moses Malone. He had better defense, but the rest of the game belongs to Mo.

And yet more bias; Shaq just flat rocked like Van Halen's first album. Even if you don't like that style you gotta admire all that transcendent, thunderous talent.

100% agreed.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

85-57

9-1 titles during their cohabitation.

What he wrote is wrong, Russell didn't terribly outperform him, but that is a huge sample size and it very clearly favors Russell.

Go ahead and give me the seasons in which Wilt's TEAMs should have beaten Russell's.

If you use '66, keep in mind that Chamberlain averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509 against Russell...while Wilt's TEAMMATES collectively shot .352 from the field in that series.

If you use '68, keep in mind the following...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13


If you use '69, keep in mind that Baylor shot 4-18, 2-14 , and 8-22 in three of their losses. And that Chamberlain's incompetent COACH shackled Wilt the entire post-season.


Furthermore, I want you to point out why Wilt's TEAMS should have beaten ANY of Russell's TEAMs from '60 thru '65. As an example, do you honestly believe that had the two swapped rosters in ANY of those years, that Russell would have beaten Wilt?

[beastee]

1. Kareem
2. Shaq (Sorry, he just is)
3. Russell (For Championship reasons)
4. Wilt (better than Russell if he didnt keep losing to his team)
5. Hakeem (Would really have loved to see Jordan Vs. Hakeem, if the dream would have won, this dude would be top 2 imo).

[Harison]

1. Russell
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Hakeem
5. Shaq

[LAZERUSS]

Moses really needs to be in this conversation.

From '78-79 thru '82-83, he was clearly the most dominant player in the game. In those five seasons, he won THREE MVPs, one FMVP, one ring, and four Rebounding titles (one of them by nearly five per game.) He also had a 31.1 ppg, 14.7 rpg season in that span.

And, he absolutely owned Kareem, who was at least close to his prime, in their 23 H2H games (16 in the regular season, and 7 in the post-season) in that span.

[Ariza4three]

Shaq
KAJ
Hakeem
Howard
Russel*
Wilt*

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq
KAJ
Hakeem
Howard
Russel*
Wilt*

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq
KAJ
Hakeem
Howard
Russel*
Wilt*

Give it up Jammeer

[Ariza4three]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
What you laughing at old man?

[LAZERUSS]

What you laughing at old man?

The village idiot...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaq
KAJ
Hakeem
Russel
Wilt

[Nash]

Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem

[dunksby]

Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Hakeem
Russell/Moses (seen very limited footage of both, trusting the old-timers)

[DaRkJaWs]

1. Wilt
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[SamuraiSWISH]

That I've seen, Imma go:

1) Shaq
2) Hakeem
3) D-Rob
4) Duncan
5) Ewing

[fragokota]

Kareem
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem

[ArbitraryWater]

That I've seen, Imma go:

1) Shaq
2) Hakeem
3) D-Rob
4) Duncan
5) Ewing

D-Rob over Duncan is prime, then? (Couldn't be peak because 03 Duncan >> and career wise not close either)

[DaRkJaWs]

I just posted my top 5, and now I'd like to point out some of the idiotic opinions and posts others have made here.

First about Russell. Some of you say that he was just a product of being on a good team and that his individual stats show that you cannot possibly rate him over someone like Shaq. Well first of all, if they had kept block shots then Russell simply blows Shaq out of the water in 2 out of 3 statistics, rebounds and Blocked shots. This is a fact. I'd even say that he'd have more assists than Shaq, but the difference is almost negligible here. Furthermore, one could not possibly compare him to someone like Robert Horry or even his teammate Sam Jones (who won 10 championships). Why? Because Russell won too many MVPs for that argument to work. Even though his stats on the offensive end were small or bad, he made such a difference on the court that all of his PEERS noticed. He really was a system player that made the team work better than anyone else except Wilt could have possibly done.
((side Note: my argument on the whole Wilt vs. Russell thing is that Russell's TALENTS were limited on the offensive end and thanks to that the only other place he could showcase his skills was in the defensive end and the "brains" department...which isn't to say that Wilt didn't use his brain, because according to refs during games at that time he was the smartest player they had ever seen...and if Wilt had the good fortune to have a good coach that knew how to use Wilt more effectively then his Celtics teams, had he been on the Celtics that is, would have been more dominant....and all I'm really saying here is that Wilt's talents were far beyond Russells. The one thing Russell could do that Wilt could not really do, however, was guard outside the painted area, as I believe Wilt's lateral movement was not exactly the best given his relatively shaky knees (he couldn't bend his knees without some pain after college)))

So if Russell were playing today, I could EASILY envision his teams winning 4-5 championships, especially because he wasn't restricted to guarding the paint and had a long wingspan and incredible athleticism. You guys really do not know just how good he was in impacting the game. Shaq played extremely well in his offensive peak but he was NOT the rebounder or defender that either Wilt or Russell were, and Shaq fans like to forget that his best season in 2000 almost went without a championship simply because the Trail Blazers choked in game 7 when the game was there's. It was not of Shaq's doing that they won. It was the kind of choke job that Wilt's teammates frequently gave to him when he was playing, and the kind of choke job that should have been pinned on Shaq but is instead pinned on Wilt. Shaq was actually the benefactor of two choke jobs and maybe 3: The trail blazers in 2000, the Mavericks in 2006 (of which Shaq should get little credit because he did not really do much of anything other than take up space with his big body), and perhaps game 7 Sacramento vs. the Lakers with the referees putting the game in favor of the Lakers. He is very fortunate in other words to have 4 championships instead of 1. While someone like Wilt on the other hand lost many game 7s and a game 6 by 2 point margins, almost all of them to Russell.

So you stupid kids take your Shaq love and shove it. I was a big fan of Shaq and I was watching those games, and the love given to that pushing and shoving that Shaqs game exhibited is simply stupid, like a pheromone that you sucked up your nostrils. You idiots put too much emphasis on titles (except when it comes to Russell) instead of on circumstance and chance. And lets not forget how many times Shaq got swept out of the playoffs, for someone who supposedly was so dominant and impactful he couldn't get his team one win (again, lets compare this to Wilt and how often he got his team to game 7). Go read a book or something.

[pudman13]

Just rank the 5 following from 1-5: Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, & Shaq. They'll get different points for each position they're ranked at, and we'll tally up the points and rank them based on the voting results



1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

He wasn't on the list, but I'd choose Moses Malone over Hakeem.

[zizozain]

1. Kareem
2. Hakeem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Shaq

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Shaq
KAJ
Hakeem
Howard
Russel*
Wilt*
lol @ Dwight
nikka isnt even top 10:oldlol: :oldlol: :roll:

[Pointguard]

The village idiot...
When did he get a promotion???

[game3524]

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Hakeem

[Iceman#44]

1 Wilt, 2 Kareem, 3 Russell 4 Shaq 5 Hakeem

[DaRkJaWs]

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Hakeem
Dummy. Didn't you see my post criticizing Shaq over Russell and wilt?

[dunksby]

Standings so far

Kareem: 172
Russell: 129
Wilt: 126
Shaq: 110
Hakeem: 67
Not a bad list actually, fact is you could argue for basically any of them, a more challenging task would be ranking them based on tiers. The list above about wraps up tier 1 although I'd add Moses Malone too.

[WillC]

1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon

[Odinn]

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Bill Russell
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Hakeem Olajuwon

[RonSwanson]

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Hakeem
4. Chamberlain
5. Russell

[game3524]

Dummy. Didn't you see my post criticizing Shaq over Russell and wilt?

I don't care what you say.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kareem
Shaq
Russel
Chamberlain
Hakeem

[stanlove1111]

1- Russell

2 and 3 I have a tie between Wilt and Kareem..Never have been able to decide.

4- Shaq

5- Hakeem

[La Frescobaldi]

I think people are seriously overlooking Russell's intangibles here. Having a guy who is all about the team is a priceless commodity.

How many dynasties won in-spite of each other? The Shaq-Kobe Lakers? They had one of the best locker room guys in league history and the best coach ever, who had a knack for managing egos. And the Lakers were still taken to the bring many times by less talented teams (who happened to have great chemistry, which adds to my point).

Heck, Hakeem didn't win until he became an actual leader (admittedly with more help).

Russell is the greatest winner ever, and the greatest leader ever. His game evolved around his teammates', making sure he covered up their flaws, keeping them satisfied with touches, and generally doing whatever was needed to win.

That's why guys like Russell, Duncan, Walton (given the number of healthy years he had) were so successful, even without necessarily having the natural talent of other players.

TL;DR: intangibles rule.
It's an interesting point.
You can trace a line directly from Russell, to Walton, to Duncan.
If you watch Walton on the Celtics you can see clearly what he was like 10 years earlier. Such a drag about his injuries. If I could choose between an injury-free Walton and Olajuwon it wouldn't even be close.

People who never saw Russell tend to discredit him - weak era, small league, and so forth; the typical fool's talk.

But he was an incredible, walking basketball mind, and had an astounding confidence that I've never seen in any other player.

[TheMan]

I'm not going to rank them on team success, more on their game (offense and defense) so mine goes like this...

1. KAJ
2. Wilt
3. Hakeem
4. Shaq
5. Bill

[Psileas]

1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

[LAZERUSS]

1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Hakeem

Just curious...where do you rank Moses? And if you had a Top-15 all-time list (of everyone), how would it shake out?

[Psileas]

Just curious...where do you rank Moses? And if you had a Top-15 all-time list (of everyone), how would it shake out?

For my #15 contend Moses, Karl and Baylor. In short, among them, Moses has the highest peak, followed by Baylor, Karl Malone has the longest prime and durability, followed by Moses and Baylor has the biggest impact on the game, followed by Moses.

[SouBeachTalents]

Forgot about this, standings so far

Kareem: 198
Russell: 146
Wilt: 146
Shaq: 127
Hakeem: 77

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
Mikan
Russell

[Roundball_Rock]

1) Kareem
2) Wilt
3) Russell
4) Shaq
5) Hakeem