Current James Harden vs 2000 Kobe Bryant

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Better player?

[pastis]

im def. not a bryant fan....but, damn harden in comparison with kobe?

give me kobe all day

[RoundMoundOfReb]

This is pre prime Kobe

[no pun intended]

This is pre prime Kobe
Doesn't matter. Still Kobe.

[JT123]

Harden, and it's not even close. James would be a 50% shooter with prime Shaq taking up all the attention.

[Heavincent]

Kobe and it's not even close.

[CavaliersFTW]

Is Harden even better than Kobe this season? :wtf:

[TheReal Kendall]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/196157.gif

Come on son

[oh the horror]

Harden, and it's not even close. James would be a 50% shooter with prime Shaq taking up all the attention.



Was it hard graduating clown college?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

make it post all star kobe 2001 and playoff kobe and him 10 out of 10 times.

22.5 ppg Kobe? Depends, do I have a big man who can carry the slack and score 25+ then sure Kobe. But for the current Rocket team with Dwight hovering around 18-20ppg, Harden is more worthy to start over a hypothetical 2000 Kobe due to his advanced offense despite his piss poor defense.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Is Harden even better than Kobe this season? :wtf:
Is this serious? Harden is a top 10 player in the league while Kobe was ranked #40 and has been even worse than that.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

make it post all star kobe 2001 and playoff kobe and him 10 out of 10 times.

22.5 ppg Kobe? Depends, do I have a big man who can carry the slack and score 25+ then sure Kobe. But for the current Rocket team with Dwight hovering around 18-20ppg, Harden is more worthy to start over a hypothetical 2000 Kobe due to his advanced offense despite his piss poor defense.
Finally an objective post :applause:

[chazzy]

My concern with Harden is how his game drops off from the regular season to the playoffs when defenses tighten up. 98-04 was one of the best defensive eras and perimeter players didn't get the generous calls they get now.

[9erempiree]

Is Harden even better than Kobe this season? :wtf:

Nope.

[plowking]

Why are people acting like this is some insulting comparison.

Harden puts up 25/8/6, and is an efficient scorer even when his shot isn't falling. I'd take that over Kobe in 2000, prior to his prime. After 2000 it is a different story though.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe.

[Cold soul]

Kobe and it's not even close.

[9erempiree]

Why are people acting like this is some insulting comparison.

Harden puts up 25/8/6, and is an efficient scorer even when his shot isn't falling. I'd take that over Kobe in 2000, prior to his prime. After 2000 it is a different story though.:facepalm

I've seen you around on ISH and you still trolling.

[plowking]

:facepalm

I've seen you around on ISH and you still trolling.

Yeah, and? Who are you?

[Kidbasketball20]

Do you think Harden is 5-6 years away from being a top 25 player all time? LOL

[3ball]

kobe's game had so many more dimensions... you can't even compare really.

looking at kobe, you immediately see signs of maximum sophistication, nuance and skill in his game - unlimited post footwork and moves, killer pull-up mid-range jumpshot, and a killer turnaround jumper, good two-foot explosion in tighter spaces..

these things are like 9th dan blackbelt skill.... doesn't get any higher.... harden falls short in these and other areas.

plus, 1999-2004 was the toughest period to score in NBA history, post 1980.

you needed 1) post skill, 2) a mid-range pull-up, and 3) a good turnaround to be an elite wing scorer in previous eras... and two-foot leaping was more valuable back then because players were in tight spaces more often with less room for a run-up...

all the great wings back then had these skills... cadillac two-guards that literally could do it all - drexler, jordan, kobe, penny, hill, and tmac come to mind.... 9th dan-type skill levels.

harden's game is very limited compared to these guys - he's mostly a ball-dominant, screen-roll guy that prefers to get a running start on forays to the rim - but it's okay, because today's more wide open lanes suits his running back, threes or layups approach pretty well... but he's not black belt.

in previous eras, wing players had both guard AND big man skill.. today, wing players not only don't have big man capability, but they play like SMALL guards (never posting, no moves out of triple-threat or pre-dribble stationary position, no turnaround jumper, no one-dribble pull-up moves, etc, etc.... instead, everything is dribble forever and screen roll, take off one leg, finesse finish, maybe a floater... like a SMALL guard).

[ImKobe]

2000 Kobe was also an elite defender

[pnyozzzoo]

Are you guys crazy?

Harden is scoring LESS and Shooting at LOWER%, THIS season ,****ing RIGHT NOW.
:roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2000 Kobe was also an elite defender
:oldlol:

[YouGotServed]

How is this even a question? A better comparison would be 2005 Kobe vs current James Harden. I'd take Harden, not by much tho.

[sportjames23]

This is pre prime Kobe


C'mon, bruh. Just about any version of Kobe is better than Harden. And I like Harden, but seriously doe. :no:

[NZStreetBaller]

2000 Kobe was also an elite defender

in comparison to james harden Kobe is the GOAT defender

[oh the horror]

Are you guys crazy?

Harden is scoring LESS and Shooting at LOWER%, THIS season ,****ing RIGHT NOW.
:roll:



This. An ancient post injury Kobe is putting up equal to better numbers right now. And that's with dude far removed from his prime.

[plowking]

This. An ancient post injury Kobe is putting up equal to better numbers right now. And that's with dude far removed from his prime.

Who cares what numbers they are putting up this season in regards to the question? And not to mention regardless of the numbers this season, Harden is comfortably a better player than Kobe now.

[Jlamb47]

2000 kobe bryant. he could do what James Harden does but better defense.

[STATUTORY]

Who cares what numbers they are putting up this season in regards to the question? And not to mention regardless of the numbers this season, Harden is comfortably a better player than Kobe now.
Harden's game only works for the regular season

it's a contrived cheesin tactic

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe put up 23 ppg, and was a terrific defender. His production didn't drop off a cliff come playoffs either when defenses tighten up. With defended long ball, and no calls on pick/roll to the rim flops Harden becomes a shell of what he brings in the regular season. The answer is 2000 Kobe, comfortably. This was before some of his ego problems too.

[IncarceratedBob]

Who knows what 2k Kobe could do w/o Shaq

[Dragic4Life]

Current James Harden for me.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe in 2000 was the best perimeter defender in the world.

He was Tony Allen with the ability to score 30 every night.

[branslowski]

Harden, and it's not even close. James would be a 50% shooter with prime Shaq taking up all the attention.

I never got the whole "Shaq takes up attention" comments. The attention Shaq took up was being doubled by PFs leaving Horry and Rick Fox open. It never benefited Kobes offence...I mean, I guess Kwame>>>Shaq cause Kobe was scoring far greater after Shaq left.

[FKAri]

2000 Kobe for sure. Harden might be more versatile offensively but the defense is miles apart.

[YouGotServed]

Kobe getting severely overrated here. He was never a centerpiece or a serious threat. Shaq carried that team and teams game planned to stop him, not Kobe.

See 2004 NBA finals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I never got the whole "Shaq takes up attention" comments. The attention Shaq took up was being doubled by PFs leaving Horry and Rick Fox open. It never benefited Kobes offence...I mean, I guess Kwame>>>Shaq cause Kobe was scoring far greater after Shaq left.

this

Kobe had his highest playoff scoring and regular scoring years WITHOUT SHAQ on the team

[tpols]

Kobe getting severely overrated here. He was never a centerpiece or a serious threat. Shaq carried that team and teams game planned to stop him, not Kobe.

See 2004 NBA finals.

Hardens in the same position now.. Dwight the one that dominates teams in the playoffs not harden. If Kobe in 2000 played as poorly in the playoffs as harden did last year, LA would have lost to Portland, easily.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Hardens in the same position now.. Dwight the one that dominates teams in the playoffs not harden. If Kobe in 2000 played as poorly in the playoffs as harden did last year, LA would have lost to Portland, easily.

Lakers might not have beat the Kings with Harden

[YouGotServed]

Hardens in the same position now.

No, he isn't. Atta boy, doe.

[Shade8780]

Was it hard graduating clown college?
Too hard for Kobe.

[Genaro]

If you're not retarded or a Harden stan the answer is pretty obvious.
Kobe not only could do everything Harden can on offense, he was a great defender too (5th in DPOY voting)

[PsychoBe]

No, he isn't. Atta boy, doe.

stop trolling :roll: :roll: :roll:

frobe > haren

5th dpoy voting and had more playoff wins that single stretch than haren has playoff appearances :oldlol:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Kobe by far
defense matters and Kobe was one of the best defenders in the NBA in 2000

[YouGotServed]

stop trolling :roll: :roll: :roll:

frobe > haren

5th dpoy voting and had more playoff wins that single stretch than haren has playoff appearances :oldlol:

All those emoticons.

Rent free. :oldlol:

[fpliii]

Kobe

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Bump....How do most feel about this now? Honestly I think Harden is better. 01 Kobe I would take over Harden,though. (although i don't think he's WAY better or anything)

[Doranku]

With how Harden has played this year, it's clearly him and that's coming from someone who hates the guy.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe

:oldlol:

[Combat Wombat]

:oldlol:

What would you know about 2000 Kobe considering you were still sucking on your mothers tits back then.....

[Ariza4three]

What would you know about 2000 Kobe considering you were still sucking on your mothers tits back then.....
Sit your ass down little boy

[navy]

Harden

[Tking714]

Still waiting to see if Harden is in a tier with Kobe/Wade or if he's more in the prime Granger, Michael Redd, Gilbert Arenas tier. Playoffs will tell. A lot of players have put up crazy regular seasons only to drop off in the playoffs or the season after.

To answer the question I'd take Current harden because he has more years in the league and higher production than 2000 kobe. Any year after I'm taking Kobe.

[Combat Wombat]

Sit your ass down little boy

:oldlol:

What are you going to do? Stutter at me?

"i'm going to fu..fu..****, i'm gonna fu...fu..**** you up"

It's hard to take you seriously after that little recording. :roll:

:pimp:

[JebronLames]

Current harden > prime kobe. I've been watching NBA for 28 years.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Great post about Kobe Bryant from Insidehoops from the 2000 season:

http://s28.postimg.org/3yve774j0/sensational_post.jpg

AirCanada15 is a top tier basketball mind. I wish he still posted here. Note how even the Kobe supporter says he didn't deserve first team all-d.

[UK2K]

Kobe by far
defense matters and Kobe was one of the best defenders in the NBA in 2000
Harden is second in the entire league in steals.

Tied with Trevor Ariza.

You know someone doesnt watch games, when they use the 'Harden doesnt play defense' line.

[gts]

Was it hard graduating clown college?

He got an A+ in drive by pie throwing


Kobe still all day every day as if this idiotic thread actually needs an answer

[ImKobe]

2000 Kobe was putting up 30 point games in the Playoffs, hitting a game-winner, game-saving block on Sabonis + putting up 25/12/7 with 4 blocks in Game 7 WCF, taking the game over in OT with Shaq out in Indiana

Kobe all ****ing day.

[Ariza4three]

:oldlol:

What are you going to do? Stutter at me?

"i'm going to fu..fu..****, i'm gonna fu...fu..**** you up"

It's hard to take you seriously after that little recording. :roll:

:pimp:
You got trolled hard :pimp:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Sit your ass down little boy

:roll: :roll: Wombat stays taking Ls

http://s11.postimg.org/t9lyac983/l_holding.jpg

[Ariza4three]

:roll: :roll: Wombat stays taking Ls

http://s11.postimg.org/t9lyac983/l_holding.jpg
:roll: :roll:

[Prime_Shaq]

Hmmm I would say current Harden > 2000 Kobe, but 2001 Kobe >>> Harden

[Nashty]

Current Harden>>>Prime Carriedbe

[Jlamb47]

Current Harden>>>Prime Carriedbe

You failed....

Harden > 00 Kobe but 01 Kobe and up > any Harden

[Wade's Rings]

Harden is second in the entire league in steals.

Tied with Trevor Ariza.

You know someone doesnt watch games, when they use the 'Harden doesnt play defense' line.


Steals isn't the only indicator of Defense. Kobe was 5th in DPOY of the Year Voting which means his Overall defense was Phenomenal that year. Is Harden's Defense that elite that he is getting considered for DPOY?

[DMAVS41]

Kobe and it's not even close.

2000 Kobe? Are you serious?

Harden is easily a better player than Kobe was in the 00 season. Kobe didn't make the leap until the 01 season.

Granted Kobe was really good in 00, but he wasn't elite yet.

Jesus you people have to be like 15 years old.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This is unfair to Harden

Kobe won a ring and led the Lakers in the most pivotal game of the postseason

25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists Game 7 WCF

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

Harden is a notorious playoff underachiever and no one would be surprised by another first round exit.

:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

This is unfair to Harden

Kobe won a ring and led the Lakers in the most pivotal game of the postseason

25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists Game 7 WCF

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

Harden is a notorious playoff underachiever and no one would be surprised by another first round exit.

:confusedshrug:

Dude...Kobe in the 00 playoffs was a 21/5/4 52% TS player that played really good, but slightly over-rated defense...

Current James Harden is a better player than Kobe was in 00.

Now, that doesn't mean we should rank current Harden ahead of Kobe in 00...because you are dead on about needing to see the playoffs, but we can't elevate 00 Kobe to a level he wasn't at yet...and we can't ignore how great current Harden is playing.

All we have so far is the regular season. And on that information...Harden has been a better player than 00 Kobe.

[AirBourne92]

Why are people acting like this is some insulting comparison.

Harden puts up 25/8/6, and is an efficient scorer even when his shot isn't falling. I'd take that over Kobe in 2000, prior to his prime. After 2000 it is a different story though.

2000 kobe was an unparalleled beast lockdown player

You and the op should get raped in the ass by thirsty prisoners for making this post and thread respectively

[Demon Lizard]

Kobe on the Lakers because of D. Harden as the go to guy on his own team because of the offense.

[AirBourne92]

Also harden in 2000 is getting to the free throw line with a hand check rule


Harden wouldn't even be d league player in 2000.

He would be a ballerina where he would could do all his elegant flopping, side stepping, dancing moves

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Dude...Kobe in the 00 playoffs was a 21/5/4 52% TS player that played really good, but slightly over-rated defense...

Current James Harden is a better player than Kobe was in 00.

Now, that doesn't mean we should rank current Harden ahead of Kobe in 00...because you are dead on about needing to see the playoffs, but we can't elevate 00 Kobe to a level he wasn't at yet...and we can't ignore how great current Harden is playing.

All we have so far is the regular season. And on that information...Harden has been a better player than 00 Kobe.

No all we know about James Harden is the regular season.

What we know about Kobe Bryant is that he outscored and outrebounded prime Shaq in the most pivotal game of their championship run.

It happened. Its not a hypothetical.

:confusedshrug:

[imnew09]

Lol at people saying Harden got better offense than 2000 Kobe. Rules were different back then, Harden wouldn't even average 20ppg without the freeethrow flops

[AirBourne92]

Lol at people saying Harden got better offense than 2000 Kobe. Rules were different back then, Harden wouldn't even average 20ppg without the freeethrow flops


harden wouldn't even make it into the paint with a handcheck and tougher foul calls


like i said, dude wouldn't even be playing basketball back then

[DMAVS41]

No all we know about James Harden is the regular season.

What we know about Kobe Bryant is that he outscored and outrebounded prime Shaq in the most pivotal game of their championship run.

It happened. Its not a hypothetical.

:confusedshrug:

And...what is your point?

That Kobe wins automatically? No, that isn't how it works.

We have to see the entire year play out before we can make such a call. Right now all we know is how each played in the regular season. And I think Harden was been the better overall player pretty easily...not a huge gulf, but a clear one.

Harden is being under-rated for his play right now...it's absurdly good.

Now, I totally agree about the playoffs and I'm not even a Harden guy at all. If he sucks in the playoffs we can all account for it.

I posted earlier this week how I'm not sold on Harden in the playoffs in another thread and I need to see more.

[fpliii]

:oldlol:
:confusedshrug:

I said that a couple weeks into the season. Obviously we have a much larger sample now. Kobe isn't a laughable choice, but I wouldn't take issue with a Harden pick (depending on how he looks throughout the rest of the year). I have no problem admitting I was wrong.

[Milbuck]

Harden right now quite comfortably...if we're not factoring in the way officiating is for him. You put current Harden in 2000..much, much closer comparison.

[IncarceratedBob]

I'm a huge Rockets fan and Hardens my guy but Hardens current game simply wouldn't translate to the early 2000s. If we give James some time to adapt to that style game I think he would be the best player in that era, he's that talented and driven.

[Milbuck]

I'm a huge Rockets fan and Hardens my guy but Hardens current game simply wouldn't translate to the early 2000s. If we give James some time to adapt to that style game I think he would be the best player in that era, he's that talented and driven.
God damn you :oldlol:

Had me going until that last part.

[zoom17]

Kobe put up 23 ppg, and was a terrific defender. His production didn't drop off a cliff come playoffs either when defenses tighten up. With defended long ball, and no calls on pick/roll to the rim flops Harden becomes a shell of what he brings in the regular season. The answer is 2000 Kobe, comfortably. This was before some of his ego problems too.

This:applause:

[greatest-ever]

Anyone taking 2000 kobe shouldn't be taken seriosuly. This was before Kobe was even a superstar, and he rode Shaq's coattails to a ring it wasn't like 2001 where it was a 1a/1b thing. Look at the numbers, Harden is clearly better.

I mean Harden is averaging roughly 27 6 7 on 60+ ts% with ok defense. If he doesn't crumble come playoffs i think he would deserve to be in the convo with any non-peak versions of kobe.

[AirBourne92]

Anyone taking 2000 kobe shouldn't be taken seriosuly. This was before Kobe was even a superstar, and he rode Shaq's coattails to a ring it wasn't like 2001 where it was a 1a/1b thing. Look at the numbers, Harden is clearly better.

I mean Harden is averaging roughly 27 6 7 on 60+ ts% with ok defense. If he doesn't crumble come playoffs i think he would deserve to be in the convo with any non-peak versions of kobe.

this is exactly why you are a moron

you will look at the finals game against a team that wasn't even matched up to the lakers properly but completely disregard the WC Finals matchup

[greatest-ever]

Lol at people saying Harden got better offense than 2000 Kobe. Rules were different back then, Harden wouldn't even average 20ppg without the freeethrow flops
This is clearly hyperbole. Yes the removal of handcheck made perimeter players more efficient but not by some enormous amount.

[AirBourne92]

This is clearly hyperbole. Yes the removal of handcheck made perimeter players more efficient but not by some enormous amount.

harden thrives on driving into the lane and getting touched for a foul

handcheck would have completely destroyed harden's game

he would be reduced to a spot up 3 point shooter off the bench

[greatest-ever]

this is exactly why you are a moron

you will look at the finals game against a team that wasn't even matched up to the lakers properly but completely disregard the WC Finals matchup
I didn't mention the anything about the finals matchup so enough with the strawman fallacies.

I don't know what 2000 kobe did better other than maybe defense. Even with Shaq there he isn't sniffing harden's efficiency, hand check or no handcheck.

Harden is flat out better deal with it.

[Lebron23]

Give me Harden. Side Cook Bryant got out played by Miller and Rose in the NBA Finals.

[Lebron23]

I didn't mention the anything about the finals matchup so enough with the strawman fallacies.

I don't know what 2000 kobe did better other than maybe defense. Even with Shaq there he isn't sniffing harden's efficiency, hand check or no handcheck.

Harden is flat out better deal with it.

Case Close

[tpols]

Anyone taking 2000 kobe shouldn't be taken seriosuly. This was before Kobe was even a superstar, and he rode Shaq's coattails to a ring it wasn't like 2001 where it was a 1a/1b thing. Look at the numbers, Harden is clearly better.

I mean Harden is averaging roughly 27 6 7 on 60+ ts% with ok defense. If he doesn't crumble come playoffs i think he would deserve to be in the convo with any non-peak versions of kobe.

Nah man..you shouldn't be taken seriously for insinuating it's not close when we've yet to see harden in the playoffs. We know Kobe was a big game player and clutches hell. The pacers even tried intentionally injuring him to win.

Harden has yet to prove himself against physical playoff opponents. Rockets will likely be a first round exit..almost certainly.

Although I do commend hardens ability to carry scrubs..I don't think he'd excel in a role next to Shaq where ball movement is stressed and calls don't come nearly as easily.

[AirBourne92]

I didn't mention the anything about the finals matchup so enough with the strawman fallacies.

I don't know what 2000 kobe did better other than maybe defense. Even with Shaq there he isn't sniffing harden's efficiency, hand check or no handcheck.

Harden is flat out better deal with it.


rotfl harden doesnt even have a playoff run matching Kobe's 2000 playoffs

harden is not even a fraction of the player Kobe was in 2000

handcheck would have reduced Harden to a water boy

get over it.

[AirBourne92]

Although I do commend hardens ability to carry scrubs..I don't think he'd excel in a role next to Shaq where ball movement is stressed and calls don't come nearly as easily.

dont forget the refs ability to carry harden

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe was so much better than Harden defensively

and 2000 Kobe can actually translate his regular season game to the post season..

something no version of Rockets Harden has ever done..

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kobe was so much better than Harden defensively

and 2000 Kobe can actually translate his regular season game to the post season..

something no version of Rockets Harden has ever done..
This is true. Which is why i sort of want to wait til the playoffs. But based on regular season it's quite clearly Harden.

[Jud]

This is true. Which is why i sort of want to wait til the playoffs. But based on regular season it's quite clearly Harden.
This.