the Great Offensive Depression 1999-2004

[STATUTORY]

the most offensively depressed era in NBA history, allowed both handchecking and zone. To be able to put up 30 ppg on 45% shooting in that era is truly a spectacle :applause: :applause:

[T_L_P]

Absolute best basketball I've ever seen.

What's better than watching teams actually try on both ends?

[SamuraiSWISH]

One of the worst eras of basketball. Game was too muddied up. Too much ISO game with a wave of wannabe Jordans and the surge in HS players, and Euros drafted on potential who weren't intelligent enough, physical enough, or skilled enough to be or make a difference as professional players. Following the lockout the game was pretty ugly for awhile. The worst being that 2004 season.

[riseagainst]

One of the worst eras of basketball. Game was too muddied up. Too much ISO game with a wave of wannabe Jordans and the surge in HS players, and Euros drafted on potential who weren't intelligent enough, physical enough, or skilled enough to be or make a difference as professional players. Following the lockout the game was pretty ugly for awhile. The worst being that 2004 season.

rofl
the mention of "worst era" by a Jordan fanatic.
:roll:
:roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

rofl
the mention of "worst era" by a Jordan fanatic.
:roll:
:roll:
:biggums:

I said one of the worst eras ...

And why exactly is that funny coming from a Jordan fan?

Are insinuating the late 80's from '85 - '89 were weak? Same time period that featured prime Magic, Bird, the late 80s Celtics, Showtime Lakers, Bad Boy Pistons?

Or that the early 90's were weak? Featuring the greatest mix of athleticism, skill, perimeter play, and big men. Guys like Hakeem, Ewing, D-Rob, young Shaq, Barkley, Malone, Nique, Run TMC, etc.

As a product the NBA was suffering heavily after Jordan left. From an entertainment perspective. And the on court play was suffering as well. I'm not alone in thinking this.

[sportjames23]

rofl
the mention of "worst era" by a Jordan fanatic.
:roll:
:roll:

Um, Jordan played in the greatest era in NBA history, my dude.

[riseagainst]

Um, Jordan played in the greatest era in NBA history, my dude.

no he didn't. League was watered down.

[Dave3]

:applause: Tmac averaging 32 ppg (the highest in the depression) and leading the league in scoring twice (including the worst year of 2004 in which he put up 62) while being doubled and even tripled regularly because he was the only offensive threat on the team :applause:

Thanks OP for reminding me of Tmac's greatness :bowdown:

[SamuraiSWISH]

no he didn't. League was watered down.
He's a better version of your favorite player. Get over it already. We all moved on from it a long time ago. The 2008 Finals specifically. You should be more concerned with this new guy LeBron totally eclipsing Kobe's reputation, and legacy.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Absolute best basketball I've ever seen.

What's better than watching teams actually try on both ends?

Agreed. I loved watching games from 1999-2002.

[riseagainst]

He's a better version of your favorite player. Get over it already. We all moved on from it a long time ago. The 2008 Finals specifically. You should be more concerned with this new guy LeBron totally eclipsing Kobe's reputation, and legacy.

i love how you automatically assume im defending Kobe. Really shows how hardcore of an insecure MJ stan you are. This has nothing to do with any particular player. Just going by facts. 90s being the "BEST" era of basketball is bs. Yes in terms of money making, but never in terms of actual basketball being played.

But of course you wouldn't ever acknowledge that because you are clouded by your love for MJ.

[RRR3]

:applause: Tmac averaging 32 ppg (the highest in the depression) and leading the league in scoring twice (including the worst year of 2004 in which he put up 62) while being doubled and even tripled regularly because he was the only offensive threat on the team :applause:

Thanks OP for reminding me of Tmac's greatness :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


GAWD-Mac :bowdown:

32/7/6/2/1 on 46/39/79 in 02-03 :biggums:

GOAT-tier stats :applause:

[SamuraiSWISH]

i love how you automatically assume im defending Kobe.
You always seem to do so ...


Yes in terms of money making, but never in terms of actual basketball being played.
I didn't make that claim it was best. Everyone has their opinion on something as subjective as that anyway ...

For me the 80's had too little defense besides a few Celtics, and Pistons clubs. Magic's Showtime Lakers romped over a PATHETIC Western Conference.

Late 90s through early 2000s had too much defense, no team play, and lack of fundamentals. Ugly basketball.

For me the early to mid 90's along with 2008 to today is more of a sweet spot equilibrium between the 80s, and the late 90s / early 2000s. Only difference between now and the early to mid 90s is more physicality, and intensity.

The early 90's was absolutely some of the best basketball ever played. It is a great mix of offensive, and defensive prowess. Bigs, and wings.

Even today's game, though lacking in physicality, and intensity ... has a streamlined beauty to their team offenses. The ball moves. Defense is still played, intelligently, albeit way less physically. I'd say 2008 - Now >>> 1999 - 2004 basketball. And it's reflected in ratings.

Late 90's wasn't great, specifically from 1998 forward, but even then there was just a few expansion teams ... there was multiple 60+ win teams. Extremely good teams:

Shaq / Penny's Orlando Magic
Riley's Zo / Hardaway Miami Heat
Ewing / Houston / LJ's Knicks (Van Gundy)

Sloan's Malone / Stockton Utah Jazz
Kemp / Payton / Shempf's Seattle Sonics
Hakeem / Drexler / Barkley Houston Rockets
Shaq / Eddie Jones / Van Excel LA Lakers

Hardly as diluted as you make it sound. You're being contrarian for the sake of enjoying arguments.

1999 - 2004 was actually bad American basketball being played.

[HOoopCityJones]

Competition from the 1999-2004 Era shits on the 90's.

Not only was the 90's depleted of great wing players of the 80's who could match up with Jordan, but the only other all around wing player during that time was his Teammate , Pippen.

1999-2004 had way more parity and harder defensive schemes.

[Haymaker]

Didn't old ass post knee surgery MJ scored at will during his Wizards seasons (2001-2003)? Scoring 20+ 42 times, 30+ nine times, and 40+ three times in his last season?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Not only was the 90's depleted of great wing players of the 80's who could match up with Jordan, but the only other all around wing player during that time was his Teammate , Pippen
What superstar wing player was Kobe going through from 2000 - 2004 in the West?

His best wing competition was in the East: McGrady, Pierce, VC, Ray Allen ... he never faced those dudes in the playoffs. He squared off against an overmatched Iverson in the Finals once.

And the hell are you talking about talent depleted 90s? They had a great mix of dominant wings, and bigs. A large collection of the greatest 50 to ever play. And the '84 draft class is still GOAT.

'99 - 2004 was horrendous ugly basketball being played.

[HOoopCityJones]

Didn't old ass post knee surgery MJ scored at will during his Wizards seasons (2001-2003)? Scoring 20+ 42 times, 30+ nine times, and 40+ three times in his last season?

Jordan had a greener light then Kobe. :biggums:

And half of the league was afraid to guard their favorite player ever. Just watch the 2003 All-star game. Kobe was one of the only guys going 100% against Jordan.

[OldSchoolBBall]

One of the worst eras of basketball. Game was too muddied up. Too much ISO game with a wave of wannabe Jordans and the surge in HS players, and Euros drafted on potential who weren't intelligent enough, physical enough, or skilled enough to be or make a difference as professional players. Following the lockout the game was pretty ugly for awhile. The worst being that 2004 season.

Yup. The game was better defensively then than it has been the last several years, but there was also a HUGE dose of offensive ineptitude mixed in due to the reasons you mentioned.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan had a greener light then Kobe.
MJ's 39/40 year old knees didn't get that memo ...

[HOoopCityJones]

What superstar wing player was Kobe going through from 2000 - 2004 in the West?

His best wing competition was in the East: McGrady, Pierce, VC, Ray Allen ... he never faced those dudes in the playoffs. He squared off against an overmatched Iverson in the Finals once.

And the hell are you talking about talent depleted 90s? They had a great mix of dominant wings, and bigs. A large collection of the greatest 50 to ever play. And the '84 draft class is still GOAT.

'99 - 2004 was horrendous ugly basketball being played.

Doesn't matter if those guys were out East, he still had to play against wing players comparable to his skillset more often than not. Can Jordan say the same? Guys like Reggie were knockdown shooters, Payton a great defender but were these guys ever the same talent of Tmac, Iverson, Carter, Stevie Francis, Paul Pierce etc.

Did Jordan even have to face as much talent on the perimeter out West? GP, but who else really? Out East I can only think of Reggie and Penny. Aside from these guys , the 90's was a big man's Era.

Jordan wasn't sticking those guys.

[juju151111]

Doesn't matter if those guys were out East, he still had to play against wing players comparable to his skillset more often than not. Can Jordan say the same? Guys like Reggie were knockdown shooters, Payton a great defender but were these guys ever the same talent of Tmac, Iverson, Carter, Stevie Francis, Paul Pierce etc.

Did Jordan even have to face as much talent on the perimeter out West? GP, but who else really? Out East I can only think of Reggie and Penny. Aside from these guys , the 90's was a big man's Era.

Jordan wasn't sticking those guys.
Jordan faced AI and Ray Allen in the 90s. Also faced PP,Tmac,Carter etc.... Has a broken down old man and didn't get destroyed. In fact has a broken down old man coming off of knee sergery he played decent against them.
Mj vs PP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CDcRwDufXY and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHwhLbW08_8

The only thing holding Mike back from destroy ing them was age.

[aj1987]

Didn't Jordan drop 51 on 60% TS at 39 during the "depression". Not to mention his stretches of 28/6/5 on 46% shooting and 26/6/4 on 45% shooting. Lets also not forget that Malone scored 22/9/4/1/1 from ages 35-40 on 56% TS during the "depression".

[riseagainst]

Didn't Jordan drop 51 on 60% TS at 39 during the "depression". Not to mention his stretches of 28/6/5 on 46% shooting and 26/6/4 on 45% shooting. Lets also not forget that Malone scored 22/9/4/1/1 from ages 35-40 on 56% TS during the "depression".

or maybe they are just very good players even at that age.

:confusedshrug:

[necya]

:facepalm

yea 99-04 was so loaded that they had to select for the ASG Zydraunas Ilgauskas, Antoine Walker, Jamal Magloire, Brad Miller, Wally Szczerbiak, Antonio Davis, Stephon Marbury, Theo Ratliff, Andrei Kirilenko, Vlade Divac, Ben Wallace during that period.
Also picking up guys like Glen Robinson or Jamal Mashburn who never got selected during the second part of the 90's.

No disrespect for those players of course...

Facing the devaluation of the league, then came the famous rules helping the offensive players who all magically scored 4-5 more pts per game from 05 to 06 letting stans on forum spreading shit which lead us to 2014, still trying to save some souls.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Great era for bigs (shaq, kg, duncan, webber, etc) terrible era for guards. And-1 era guys thinking they were Jordan but didn't have the talent to back it up.

[tpols]

Great era for bigs (shaq, kg, duncan, webber, etc) terrible era for guards. And-1 era guys thinking they were Jordan but didn't have the talent to back it up.

Yea because prime Kobe, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, and Tracy McGrady can't compare to James harden, klay Thompson, old Wade, and old Kobe. :lol

[STATUTORY]

Yea because prime Kobe, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, and Tracy McGrady can't compare to James harden, klay Thompson, old Wade, and old Kobe. :lol
or old ass dominique, old ass erving, crippled bird

early 2000s greatest era for swingman in history of the game

[PsychoBe]

the early 2000's had

the kobe-shaq lakers,

2001-2002 kings,

the "too deep" jailblazers,

kg's + marbury's timberwolves (who charles himself said had the potential to win several champioships),

vince carter's raptors,

nash + dirk's mavs,

jason kidd's nets,

same ol' spurs,

need i go on? :lol

[game3524]

rofl
the mention of "worst era" by a Jordan fanatic.
:roll:
:roll:

Yeah, that is rich.

The worst stretch of basketball play was the mid-90's by far. The only "bad" year of the 2000's was 2004, but other then that the decade had a ton of high level basketball play.

[Smoke117]

the most offensively depressed era in NBA history, allowed both handchecking and zone. To be able to put up 30 ppg on 45% shooting in that era is truly a spectacle :applause: :applause:

The ban on zone wasn't lifted till the 2001-2002 season...not in 99.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Zone isn't some insurmountable, mythic caliber of defense.

It wasn't played in the pros for a very long time because it's easily for PROFESSIONALS to beat. With higher skill level, and intelligence all beating it is predicated on where to cut, where to pass, and hitting wide open shots.

Skills like that had evaporated by the time the early 2000s rolled around with the influx of HS draftees.

Oh, and hand check wasn't what it used to be by the time the early 2000s rolled around. By 2006 you couldn't even breath on someone though.