Sports debating

[hateraid]

What is more important when debating sports. Insight or stats?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

What is more important when debating sports. Insight or stats?

Number's done lie unless you are talking to a LeBron stan of course

[Batz]

Both equally important.

[hateraid]

Both equally important.

I always thought insight should be backed by stats and not the other way around

[Batz]

I always thought insight should be backed by stats and not the other way around
It's vice versa, and they play off of each other. From my experience anyways. If you're just an insight guy, then you can come off as delusional. If you're just a stats guy, even with advanced analytics, then you'll get laughed at - and rightfully so.

Really want to understand the games? Focus on both. There's a reason why in basketball and other major sports players and coaches get a full scouting report on opposing players and teams, and also spend hours and hours watching footage. Sports are far more complicated than a good eye or heavy numbers. If you want to be taken seriously, then put effort into both when giving your analysis.

[ace23]

Stats. There's very very little if any useful "insight" that can't be backed by stats.

[StateProperty]

Stats mean nothing without context.

[hateraid]

Stats. There's very very little if any useful "insight" that can't be backed by stats.
So exclusively watching a team and giving insight is trumped by a guy who's never seen a time but knows their stats?

[ace23]

So exclusively watching a team and giving insight is trumped by a guy who's never seen a time but knows their stats?
What do you mean trumped? What exactly is being debated? Give me an example.

[hateraid]

What do you mean trumped? What exactly is being debated? Give me an example.
Well today I was debating with my cousin about the Chiefs/Seahawks game coming up. He predicted Seahawks by 10. I asked on what premise. He went on about how the Chiefs offense is terrible due to the low offensive yards. I've watched every Chiefs game this year and told him how their offense is predicated. I said those offensive yards still yield a high scoring rate. I think Chiefs are top 3 in that stat? In any case he has never seen the Chiefs play so I basically told him you need some insight before spewing out empty stats. He took offense to that.

[west_tip]

Well today I was debating with my cousin about the Chiefs/Seahawks game coming up. He predicted Seahawks by 10. I asked on what premise. He went on about how the Chiefs offense is terrible due to the low offensive yards. I've watched every Chiefs game this year and told him how their offense is predicated. I said those offensive yards still yield a high scoring rate. I think Chiefs are top 3 in that stat? In any case he has never seen the Chiefs play so I basically told him you need some insight before spewing out empty stats. He took offense to that.


Oh, in this instance its a no brainer. The opinion of people who watch games will always be superior to guys who merely read boxscores or watch highlights.

[ArbitraryWater]

So exclusively watching a team and giving insight is trumped by a guy who's never seen a time but knows their stats?

If thats how you portray insight, sure... But preferences impact opinion. IMO they really (should) go hand in hand, and present equal value.. Batz explained it well.

[west_tip]

It's vice versa, and they play off of each other. From my experience anyways. If you're just an insight guy, then you can come off as delusional. If you're just a stats guy, even with advanced analytics, then you'll get laughed at - and rightfully so.

Really want to understand the games? Focus on both. There's a reason why in basketball and other major sports players and coaches get a full scouting report on opposing players and teams, and also spend hours and hours watching footage. Sports are far more complicated than a good eye or heavy numbers. If you want to be taken seriously, then put effort into both when giving your analysis.

Yeah, well said.

[ace23]

Well today I was debating with my cousin about the Chiefs/Seahawks game coming up. He predicted Seahawks by 10. I asked on what premise. He went on about how the Chiefs offense is terrible due to the low offensive yards. I've watched every Chiefs game this year and told him how their offense is predicated. I said those offensive yards still yield a high scoring rate. I think Chiefs are top 3 in that stat? In any case he has never seen the Chiefs play so I basically told him you need some insight before spewing out empty stats. He took offense to that.
Those stats are not very useful.

[hateraid]

Those stats are not very useful.
I mentioned that. He went on to compare Lynch's total yards vs Charles's total yards for the year. I pointed out that Charles was injured for 2 and a half games.
Bottom line I guess I was trying to get across to him is having no insight and going 100% completely on stats has no leg to stand on

[GimmeThat]

what's more important, the pre-work out nutrition/preparation, or the post work out meal

[ace23]

I mentioned that. He went on to compare Lynch's total yards vs Charles's total yards for the year. I pointed out that Charles was injured for 2 and a half games.
Bottom line I guess I was trying to get across to him is having no insight and going 100% completely on stats has no leg to stand on
If you use useful stats, it's probably easier to judge just looking at stats than just watching games if that's what you mean by "insight".

[hateraid]

what's more important, the pre-work out nutrition/preparation, or the post work out meal
Post workout meal

[hateraid]

Stats mean nothing without context.
That's exactly my point

[Batz]

That's exactly my point
Get your friend in here we'll type some sense into him.

[97 bulls]

It all depends on what side the person.falls on

[Jailblazers7]

I think it depends on the argument. Sometimes stats are more valuable and in other cases insight is more persuasive.

[RidonKs]

I always thought insight should be backed by stats and not the other way around
i agree with this

raw stats are much more useful than is raw insight. arguments predicated on the 'eye test' are as likely to be horseshit as arguments based solely on the numbers.