Does Chris Paul have a case for most skilled player of all time?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I think so. Players typically brought up as most skilled ever:

Kobe - Hyper-Athletic, excellent size for position....And Paul was arguably better prime vs prime in 2008.
Larry Bird - Great size and coordination for his position. He still has a case
MJ - Goat Caliber athlete, excellent size for position
Hakeem - Hyper-Athletic, guard like coordination


I really think Paul has a case. Dude is 5'11 with no significant leaping/explosive ability....his game is pure skill and heart. What do you think?

*This isn't an overreaction to last night.

[T_L_P]

He has a case. He mastered pretty much everything he can given his size.

He's incredibly efficient (has a very good jumper), a GOAT-tier passer, and a good defender. And he has lots of intangibles.

That said, he's not winning a title as the clear #1.

No PG other than Magic -- who was 6'9" -- is.

[fragokota]

I would pick Bird.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Yes, he definitely has a great case.



He has a case. He mastered pretty much everything he can given his size.

He's incredibly efficient (has a very good jumper), a GOAT-tier passer, and a good defender. And he has lots of intangibles.

That said, he's not winning a title as the clear #1.

No PG other than Magic -- who was 6'9" -- is.

Clyde and Zeke.

[Young X]

Only thing he needs is an elite 3pt shot. He's elite at everything else - midrange, ballhandling, passing, rebounding (for his size) and he even has a small post game.

He's almost like a PG version of KG...extremely skilled, but lack of team success and on court attitude/antics make people dislike him.

Steve Nash is the only player I'd put above him.

[T_L_P]

Yes, he definitely has a great case.




Clyde and Zeke.

Eh, I don't think Zeke was that much more valuable than Joe...and it's an anomaly since he had probably the greatest supporting cast outside of Russell's Celtics. :confusedshrug:

[masonanddixon]

He just might be.

You can't win with him as your best player though.

[LilEddyCurry]

He just might be.

You can't win with him as your best player though.
:facepalm He is the 3rd best player in the league. If you add like Klay, Iggy and whoever not named Lebron or KD to this current team, he will still be the best player on the team and they would have a pretty high chance of winning the title.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Larry Bird is easily the most skilled player ever
CP has as good an argument as anyone for #2


Only thing he needs is an elite 3pt shot. He's elite at everything else - midrange, ballhandling, passing, rebounding (for his size) and he even has a small post game.

He's almost like a PG version of KG...extremely skilled, but lack of team success and on court attitude/antics make people dislike him.

Steve Nash is the only player I'd put above him.
Nash??????? Is defense not a skill? Nash wasnt even more skilled than Mark Price

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He has a case. He mastered pretty much everything he can given his size.

He's incredibly efficient (has a very good jumper), a GOAT-tier passer, and a good defender. And he has lots of intangibles.

That said, he's not winning a title as the clear #1.

No PG other than Magic -- who was 6'9" -- is.
Put him on the Spurs last year and he wins as the clear best player. Cp3 is the 2nd best player in the league. By your logic only LeBron James can win as the clear best player.

[T_L_P]

:facepalm He is the 3rd best player in the league. If you add like Klay, Iggy and whoever not named Lebron or KD to this current team, he will still be the best player on the team and they would have a pretty high chance of winning the title.

We're talking about normal circumstances here. He has the most talented cast in the league around him, and a top 3 coach according to everyone (even though I happen to think he's incredibly overrated).

Give Paul a cast like the 02 Lakers? No title. 99 Spurs? No title. 12/13 Heat? No title.

Sure, if we give him 4 other All-Stars he'd probably win. But that's no doable. :confusedshrug:

[T_L_P]

Put him on the Spurs last year and he wins as the clear best player. Cp3 is the 2nd best player in the league. By your logic only LeBron James can win as the clear best player.

Yes, and it's one of the most stacked casts of all time, with the 2nd greatest coach ever.

See my above post. Put him on those teams -- elite but not alltime great supporting casts -- and he doesn't win as the clear-cut best player. He's 6 foot for God's sake.

[oarabbus]

Hell no. Pistol Pete, Isaiah Thomas > CP3 skill-wise

You could probably make a case Oscar Robertson was more skilled, or Magic. Just because they are bigger does not mean their skill level was lower.

[ProfessorMurder]

Stockton >>> Paul

[Eric Cartman]

Stockton >>> Paul

This.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Hell no. Pistol Pete, Isaiah Thomas > CP3 skill-wise
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
theres a reason Thomas has flatout said CP is better than he ever was. Somehow hes able to see it but retarded fans cant:confusedshrug:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yes, and it's one of the most stacked casts of all time, with the 2nd greatest coach ever.

See my above post. Put him on those teams -- elite but not alltime great supporting casts -- and he doesn't win as the clear-cut best player. He's 6 foot for God's sake.

Do you think Durant can win as "the clear cut best player"? Can Kobe?

[oarabbus]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
theres a reason Thomas has flatout said CP is better than he ever was. Somehow hes able to see it but retarded fans cant:confusedshrug:

According to OP logic, JJ Barea, Nate Robinson, Earl Boykins, and Muggsy Bogues are far more talented than CP3 so don't give me that bullshit


Muggsy Bogues averaging a double double with >10ast at 5'3" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CP3's 6 foot ass, give me a ****ing break

[T_L_P]

Do you think Durant can win as "the clear cut best player"? Can Kobe?

I think Durant can, yes. He needs to become more stable in the Playoffs and improve his defense (it was solid last Regular Season, not last Playoffs). Current Kobe? Hell no.

I'd say he did it in 09. Not at any other point. But he definitely could. Almost all of the top 25-30 players could, except the PGs.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

According to OP logic, JJ Barea, Nate Robinson, Earl Boykins, and Muggsy Bogues are far more talented than CP3 so don't give me that bullshit
How on earth are those players more skilled than Paul by my logic?

[oarabbus]

How on earth are those players more skilled than Paul by my logic?

You say Paul is small and doesn't have significant athletic/leaping ability



Muggsy makes Paul look like a little bitch by your logic (pun intended)

He has FAR more skill and heart than Paul to even make it into the NBA much less average >10ast a game in his peak

[PsychoBe]

stockton was much more skilled than paul ever was and him and his pf and his team full of shooters have actually been to the finals consecutive times while paul and his pf and his team full of shooters cant even get out of the 2nd round.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

According to OP logic, JJ Barea, Nate Robinson, Earl Boykins, and Muggsy Bogues are far more talented than CP3 so don't give me that bullshit


Muggsy Bogues averaging a double double with >10ast at 5'3" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CP3's 6 foot ass, give me a ****ing break
True the OP is a dummy and overcompensating. CP is a GREAT athlete with bull like strength for such a small man

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

stockton was much more skilled than paul ever was and him and his pf and his team full of shooters have actually been to the finals consecutive times while paul and his pf and his team full of shooters cant even get out of the 2nd round.
Malone>>>>>>Blake
Sloan>>>>>>>Rivers

Eaton and Hornacek were easily better than any other clippers player. lol @ ur dumb comparison, u clearly didnt even watch 90s ball

[Young X]

Nash??????? Is defense not a skill? Nash wasnt even more skilled than Mark PriceDefense involves skill, but it also involves effort and physicality. Shooting, passing, ballhandling, footwork, post moves are all things you can develop regardless of your physicality. Nash is one of the best shooters ever, one of the best passers ever and an elite ballhandler...he's definitely one of the most skilled ever.

[Pointguard]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
theres a reason Thomas has flatout said CP is better than he ever was. Somehow hes able to see it but retarded fans cant:confusedshrug:
Two separate arguments. Skills is one, and better another.

Nobody in their right mind would ever say that CP was better than Isiah in the playoffs. They weren't on the same level. Isiah has taken over conference finals and finals games at all time great levels. Yeah in a more impressive way than CP3 was in the first round. I guarantee you CP3 would return the favor in reverse.

[Pointguard]

This whole arguments because he doesn't have size or athletic ability shouldn't factor in. What Magic did at 6'9 was more impressive than what CP does at 5'11 in terms of playing that position. In general the cut off point at that position is 6'5 in general. But my three are below.

In terms of basketball skills nobody is beyond Pippen, Lebron and KG. Because they could play more positions than any other players on both sides of the ball. Pippen and KG played team defense very well on top of it.

[PsychoBe]

Malone>>>>>>Blake
Sloan>>>>>>>Rivers

Eaton and Hornacek were easily better than any other clippers player. lol @ ur dumb comparison, u clearly didnt even watch 90s ball

think relative to their competition.

malone had to face barkley and kemp while griffin had to face....ibaka and randolf :oldlol:

sloan is better than rivers i'll give you that.

eaton and hornacek were system players, just like crawford and jj and the rest of the deep, deep, clippers roster especially relative to their competition.

[j3lademaster]

Nash??????? Is defense not a skill? Nash wasnt even more skilled than Mark PriceNash was bad at defense due to physical deficiencies.

[LilEddyCurry]

We're talking about normal circumstances here. He has the most talented cast in the league around him, and a top 3 coach according to everyone (even though I happen to think he's incredibly overrated).

Give Paul a cast like the 02 Lakers? No title. 99 Spurs? No title. 12/13 Heat? No title.

Sure, if we give him 4 other All-Stars he'd probably win. But that's no doable. :confusedshrug:
Well you never know what can happen. Not many people would of predicted that Dirk and his cast would defeat a team consisting of prime Lebron, Wade and Bosh but he did win. Dirk was averaging much higher than his regular season averages while Lebron choked as hard as he could that series.

[tontoz]

Isiah was an inefficient scorer with a weak outside shot. He was not more skilled than Paul.

Paul also has a higher assist rate and a lower turnover rate than Isiah.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You say Paul is small and doesn't have significant athletic/leaping ability



Muggsy makes Paul look like a little bitch by your logic (pun intended)

He has FAR more skill and heart than Paul to even make it into the NBA much less average >10ast a game in his peak
Umm Chris Paul is a first team all-nba, first ballot HOFer, who was considered as good as prime Kobe Bryant and arguabally as good as any non-Magic Johnson PG in his prime.

[tgan3]

Yeah probably man, his efficiency is unbelievable for a little guy. I remembered his PER was 30 at his peak in 2008-09.

[PsychoBe]

Umm Chris Paul is a first team all-nba, first ballot HOFer, who was considered as good as prime Kobe Bryant and arguabally as good as any non-Magic Johnson PG in his prime.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

paul cant even get past the second round with the deepest team in the west from top to bottom.

[SwishSquared]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

paul cant even get past the second round with the deepest team in the west from top to bottom.
Spurs have been deeper. The back up bigs last year were basically Hedo and Big Baby right?

They've had a surplus of guards, have been short on good SFs and serviceable back up big men. That's not the deepest team.

[bizil]

I think terms of players under 6'3, he's the most skilled of all time. They say West is really 6'4 so he doesn't count. Paul is a great passer, great defender, and has alpha dog level scoring ability. And at 6'0, gets five boards a night. I think the top 4 players peak wise for players under 6'3 are Isiah, AI, Tiny, and Paul. But all around wise, Paul is the best.

[oarabbus]

Umm Chris Paul is a first team all-nba, first ballot HOFer, who was considered as good as prime Kobe Bryant and arguabally as good as any non-Magic Johnson PG in his prime.


Chris Paul is an absolute fast, strong, great size, explosive athletic FREAK compared to Muggsy.

Therefore by your logic you used to state that Bird is less skilled than CP3, you must conclude that Muggsy >>>>>> CP3


I don't think you realize how short 5'3" is.

[Jacks3]

I'd say he did it in 09. Not at any other point. But he definitely could. Almost all of the top 25-30 players could, except the PGs.
Did you just say that Kobe wasn't the clear cut best player on the 2010 Lakers?

:roll:

[Harison]

CP3 isnt even the most skilled among PGs (Stockton >>), let alone among all positions (Dream, MJ, KG, etc).

[finchyyy]

I'd go Pistol Pete or Bird.

[deja vu]

All time? Not even close.

[iamgine]

Eh, I don't think Zeke was that much more valuable than Joe...and it's an anomaly since he had probably the greatest supporting cast outside of Russell's Celtics. :confusedshrug:
:biggums: U think his supporting cast better than 80s Lakers/80s Celtics/'83 philly.

[livingby3's]

Not saying he's the best, but I think Kobe Bryant deserves a mention. His skills in scoring is self-explanatory. His foot work is something to be admired, even among his peers. And when he up his intensity on defense, he can be efficient on that end as well.
He's actually also an incredible passer, just that he never look to pass the ball first, doesn't mean his passing ability is not there. If he possessed a better sense for good shot selection, I would think that he would have been able to achieve more.

[AirFederer]

With the ball in his hands he has a case.

In desicion making he has ways to go imho.

[Lebronxrings]

i give alot of credit to cp3, but i think lebron takes the cake here. 6'8 sf who can defend al 55 positions, become a vocal leader, have great post moves, one of the best playmakers the game has seen, consistent j, etc.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Eh, I don't think Zeke was that much more valuable than Joe...and it's an anomaly since he had probably the greatest supporting cast outside of Russell's Celtics. :confusedshrug:

Never said he was much more valuable than Dumars but he was the clear #1 (like you've "asked").
He had some great teammates yea, but he was the heart and soul of that team, their best player and number1 option during their title runs.

A top3 greatest supporting cast, all-time? I think you're just exaggerating there, and don't forget that they were playing/winning in a stacked league too; you can talk about the "situations" and whatnot but the fact was that they were going up against Bird's Celtics, Jordan's Bulls, Magic's Lakers...

Since 1960, only PG's that have won titles as the best player/#1 option, were Magic, Isiah and Frazier... Magic obviously being the best there, and best PG ever, giving you the best chances at winning it all with a point-guard as the clear #1. And yea, he was 6'8'' too, height matters in basketball.

Oh, Gus Williams also won a title as a #1 scoring option PG, plus you can argue for Billups being the best player on that 2004 championship Pistons squad.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Isiah was an inefficient scorer with a weak outside shot. He was not more skilled than Paul.

Paul also has a higher assist rate and a lower turnover rate than Isiah.

You don't really know what you're talking about there.

I can also say that Isiah has two rings while Paul has never gotten past the semifinals...



I'd go Pistol Pete or Bird.

I'd probably go with Bird too, but there are (few) others with great cases... Pistol Pete being one of them yea, dude was insanely skilled from a fundamental stand-point and also as far as the creative side of things, too bad that for the most part he was way too overflashy and couldn't understand a team concept, in order to win.

[dannywpt]

The way people are praising CP3's all-around game compared to all-time greats, you'd think he was a 5x MVP and top 10 all time player or something.

He should worry about getting out of the 2nd round in the playoffs. I don't get why people are so in love with his game and give him so much praise. He is so much like Rondo, controls the game masterfully, gets his own stats and assists, is very protective of his efficiency and so on. So far it hasn't led to much success. I'll take Westbrook over him.