Better offense 07 Cavs or 14 Lakers?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

07 Cavs

Off Rtg: 105.5 (18th of 30)

14 Lakers

Off Rtg: 106.7 (14th of 30)

[navy]

Goddamn and Lebron went and dragged that cast to the NBA Finals.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

All this does is show me that LeBron is the GOAT.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe plays in the west. Apples and Oranges

http://appmuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Comparing-apples-and-oranges.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Also relevant Lebron James didn't win any all defensive team awards until 2009.

[orange_chicken]

The real question should be is 07 Queen James or 14 Ring Chaser Bran better? I think is 14 Ring Chaser Bran cuz 1/14 people will believe the media shit propaganda and admit Bran's the best after buying two rings. :lol

[DonDadda59]

Better team- '02 Wizards without Jordan or '14 Lakers with Kobe? :confusedshrug:

[Crose]

Also relevant Lebron James didn't win any all defensive team awards until 2009.
the cavs that year were the 4th best defense and lebron that season was mediocre defender. he didnt become good until 2008/09, very good in 2010, and he was excellent and an defense leader from 2011 to 2013.

the team was made to give him all control, which is how a lebron team needs to be for him to succeed.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

So prime Lebron who plays the game the right way and shares the ball with everlasting love did not lead his team to a better offense during the season than psycho chuckstastic Kobe...

Interesting...

[chazzy]

Goddamn and Lebron went and dragged that cast to the NBA Finals.
Or his team's defense inflated the perception of how much he was carrying them. This is before Lebron was a great defender btw

07 Lebron is so overrated relative to his own career. I'd take 06, and 08-current Lebron over him

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3

[dreamwarrior]

d'antoni's lakers were #2 or 3 in ppg last year. Still couldn't win 30 games

[DonDadda59]

Or his team's defense inflated the perception of how much he was carrying them. This is before Lebron was a great defender btw

07 Lebron is so overrated relative to his own career. I'd take 06, and 08-current Lebron over him

Not a LeBron fan here and I agree people severely underrate how good that 07 Cavs team was defensively (and they had the right personnel for LeBron ball) but... BRUH (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ)

[CelticBaller]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3
rip in pieces

[navy]

So prime Lebron who plays the game the right way and shares the ball with everlasting love did not lead his team to a better offense during the season than psycho chuckstastic Kobe...

Interesting...
All that means is that Kobe's cast isnt as bad offensively as he is....

[navy]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3

What was OP trying to accomplish with this thread? :roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

All that means is that Kobe's cast isnt as bad offensively as he is....

Which of Kobe's teammates is better than Mo Williams? :confusedshrug:

[navy]

Which of Kobe's teammates is better than Mo Williams? :confusedshrug:
I never said anything like that.

[navy]

Or his team's defense inflated the perception of how much he was carrying them. This is before Lebron was a great defender btw

07 Lebron is so overrated relative to his own career. I'd take 06, and 08-current Lebron over him
The defense wasnt good nor was the offense. It was a bad (read average) team. :confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

Mo Williams was on the Bucks in 2007.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Which of Kobe's teammates is better than Mo Williams? :confusedshrug:
Mo Williams wasn't on the Cavs until 09....when they won 66 games. 12 year old confirmed.

[Ariza4three]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3
Game over :roll:

[Micku]

Which of Kobe's teammates is better than Mo Williams? :confusedshrug:

No Mo Williams on the team that you're comparing.

[navy]

Mo Williams was on the Bucks in 2007.
:roll:

[chazzy]

lol @ on/off stats. These guys play 35-40 mins a night, so we're looking at 8-13 mins of basketball with 0 context. Last night we just saw the Lakers 3rd string out score the Warriors 3rd string by 16. It doesn't mean much

The defense wasnt good nor was the offense. It was a bad (read average) team. :confusedshrug:
They were the 4th best defensive team

[Ariza4three]

Mo Williams wasn't on the Cavs until 09....when they won 66 games. 12 year old confirmed.
DAMN. OP is done. :roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The defense wasnt good nor was the offense. It was a bad (read average) team. :confusedshrug:

oof

07 Cavs Def Rtg: 101.3 (4th of 30)
14 Lakers Def Rtg: 117.8 (30th of 30)

- Highlights how underrated Lebron's defensive casts were
- Highlights the real problem with the Laker's the last 3 years
- Highlights how overrated Lebron's offense impact on his teammates is
- Highlights how misguided haters are when the have the audacity to criticize Kobe Bryant willing this cast to an above average offense

Forgive them father for they know not what they do

:facepalm

[CelticBaller]

Which of Kobe's teammates is better than Mo Williams? :confusedshrug:

Mo Williams was on the Bucks in 2007.
chances of op coming back after the ether?

1/14

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lol @ on/off stats. These guys play 35-40 mins a night, so we're looking at 8-13 mins of basketball with 0 context. Last night we just saw the Lakers 3rd string out score the Warriors 3rd string by 16. It doesn't mean much

I didn't see you pointing this out earlier in the thread. Fact is the Lakers have an inflated offensive rating overall because other teams are up so badly that they stop giving a **** about playing defense.

[SouBeachTalents]

oof

07 Cavs Def Rtg: 101.3 (4th of 30)
14 Lakers Def Rtg: 117.8 (30th of 30)

- Highlights how underrated Lebron's defensive casts were
- Highlights the real problem with the Laker's the last 3 years
- Highlights how overrated Lebron's offense impact on his teammates is
- Highlights how misguided haters are when the have the audacity to criticize Kobe Bryant willing this cast to an above average offense

Forgive them father for they know not what they do

:facepalm

Just like you didn't know Mo Williams wasn't on the '07 Cavs

[orange_chicken]

OP got his azz raped by Kobe fans like Kobe raped that white azz.


DAMN. OP is done. :roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You got me guys... the point doesn't work anymore with Zydrunas Ilguaskas rather than Mo Williams....

:rolleyes:

[chazzy]

I didn't see you pointing this out earlier in the thread. Fact is the Lakers have an inflated offensive rating overall because other teams are up so badly that they stop giving a **** about playing defense.
Why doesn't that apply to other bad teams?

[navy]

I didn't see you pointing this out earlier in the thread. Fact is the Lakers have an inflated offensive rating overall because other teams are up so badly that they stop giving a **** about playing defense.
Basically this.

[DonDadda59]

It's pretty hilarious how fast this guy's threads always completely back fire on him. :lol


Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Mo Williams was on the Bucks in 2007.


Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3

http://millennialmedical.com/media/igallery/2/3/2365254505_9ef85e9ee0_o.jpg

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Why doesn't that apply to other bad teams?

It does

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015.html

Sort it by defensive rating. The teams a bad defensive rating + a bad MOV are right around the Lakers ORTG.

[CelticBaller]

You got me guys... the point doesn't work anymore with Zydrunas Ilguaskas rather than Mo Williams....

:rolleyes:
Yeah, it proves that you're a laker bandwagoner who started watching basketball during their 2 peat

Move on clown, try not to embarrass yourself like modern day kobe

[navy]

Why doesn't that apply to other bad teams?
It does. Nobody should put that much stock into ratings like that because numbers cant tell the entire story. The Lakers are just a terrible team. Offensively and defensively. Why do you think every time a laker currently on the team even kobe talks about the problem with the team they talk about offense not defense? There is no saving value here.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yeah, it proves that you're a laker bandwagoner who started watching basketball during their 2 peat

Move on clown, try not to embarrass yourself like modern day kobe

I'm a Laker bandwagoner because I thought someone was on the Cavs when they really on the Bucks in a comparison with a current Laker team with 1 win.

You are very smart. I will pray for you.

[chazzy]

Besides last night, the Lakers had a below average ORTG in all of their blowouts

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Besides last night, the Lakers had a below average ORTG in all of their blowouts
But it's still better than what it should be based on the fact that the game was a blow out. It's not indicative of their actual level of play. Unless you really do think Kobe is -27.3 bad?

[dazzer87]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3
Why you gotta do that to these Kobe stans........

[navy]

Besides last night, the Lakers had a below average ORTG in all of their blowouts
Yeah, now imagine if all those games werent blowouts and the opposing team tried for 48 minutes....

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I always knew that LeBron was overrated. Good shit OP.
derp

[CelticBaller]

I'm a Laker bandwagoner because I thought someone was on the Cavs when they really on the Bucks in a comparison with a current Laker team with 1 win.

You are very smart. I will pray for you.
You're a laker bandwagoner because you thought Mo Williams played for the highly televised team that made it to the finals, and went on how he played this imaginary role in the cavs when in fact if he actually did we would all remember it.

You in other hand, not very smart. :applause:

[SouBeachTalents]

You're a laker bandwagoner because you thought Mo Williams played for the highly televised team that made it to the finals, and went on how he played this imaginary role in the cavs when in fact if he actually did we would all remember it.

You in other hand, not very smart. :applause:

He then proceeded to make a thread about said team without even knowing who was or wasn't on it

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Jesus Christ you idiots get dumber every time I log into this website.

If anything it would make me a Cavs bandwagoner.

:roll:

[Byobob]

You gotta give props to Yao Ming's Foot. Still had the audacity to post in this thread after he took ethers left and right.

[CelticBaller]

Jesus Christ you idiots get dumber every time I log into this website.

If anything it would make me a Cavs bandwagoner.

:roll:
What's 9 + 10?

[DonDadda59]

You gotta give props to Yao Ming's Foot. Still had the audacity to post in this thread after he took ethers left and right.

Dude is persistent. You gotta give him that. Happens in every single thread he starts.


Jesus Christ you idiots get dumber every time I log into this website.

If anything it would make me a Cavs bandwagoner.

:roll:

So simplify it for the people since what you're doing is so above anyone's grasp. Finish these two sentences-

1) When I made this thread, the point I was attempting to make is....

2) I believe I accomplished that goal by....

[Smoke117]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1503/15037917/2352036-9320081384-i9pJQ.gif

[Yao Ming's Foot]

So simplify it for the people since what you're doing is so above anyone's grasp. Finish these two sentences-

1) When I made this thread, the point I was attempting to make is....

- Highlights how underrated Lebron's defensive casts were
- Highlights the real problem with the Laker's the last 3 years
- Highlights how overrated Lebron's offense impact on his teammates is
- Highlights how misguided haters are when the have the audacity to criticize Kobe Bryant willing this cast to an above average offense

2) I believe I accomplished that goal by....

Trolls were forced to harp on an immaterial mistake in regards to Mo Williams as a defensive mechanism related to their inability to dictate any sort of intelligent rebuttal to the above four mentioned points.

[RRR3]

Foot, roundmoundofreb already countered your OP with those on/of stats. What more do you want?

[Brizzly]

What's 9 + 10?
21

[DonDadda59]

So simplify it for the people since what you're doing is so above anyone's grasp. Finish these two sentences-

1) When I made this thread, the point I was attempting to make is....

- Highlights how underrated Lebron's defensive casts were
I agree on this point, they were a very good-great defensive squad.

- Highlights the real problem with the Laker's the last 3 years

And Kobe is a major contributor to that problem. He's been absolute garbage on D for years now, even when he was getting undeserved all D selections.

- Highlights how overrated Lebron's offense impact on his teammates is

Now that's just plain silly. Outside of Larry Hughes there was no one else on that team that could create their own shot. They had shooters for days (Boobie Gibson, Pavlovic, Damon Jones, even Donyell Marshall could stroke it) who were perfect for the LeBron Ball style. Without him being the playmaker though, they were trash offensively.

- Highlights how misguided haters are when the have the audacity to criticize Kobe Bryant willing this cast to an above average offense

Except Kobe isn't 'willing' anything but Bricks. You're a stat guy, overly so. How can you get on Kobe's teammate's case while overlooking the fact he's shooting 5 more shots than the #2 guy in the league while only making around 37% of his shots? I think at this point his usage rate is higher than his FG%. That's absurd. He hasn't attempted to do anything to facilitate for teammates or to improve the offense as a whole. He's just chucking indiscriminately.

2) I believe I accomplished that goal by....

Trolls were forced to harp on an immaterial mistake in regards to Mo Williams as a defensive mechanism related to their inability to dictate any sort of intelligent rebuttal to the above four mentioned points.

To be fair, RoundMoundofReb showed the ORTGs and DRTG with each guy on and off the court and clearly the Cavs offense was noticeably better when Bron was on the court while the D stayed more or less even. Meanwhile Kobe's on court presence has the Lakers playing all time worse level defense while having a negligible impact on their offense.


See... was that so hard? :confusedshrug:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

- No shooting guard is a major contributor to a team's defense. Not once. Not ever in NBA history.

- Are the 14 Lakers minus Kobe any more offensively talented than the 07 Cavs minus Lebron?

-Because whether or not a player should take or shot or not within a certain game has no relationship to anything other than the players on the floor and the context of the situation. The numbers for players on different teams are irrelevant. Unless you can point me to a less talented offensive team putting up points at a more efficient clip, I'm not interested.

- I don't hold much value from on/off data from mostly blowout games in a ten game sample size :confusedshrug:

[orange_chicken]

This Kobe is done he's just like the Wizards MJ so yeah

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Better team- '02 Wizards without Jordan or '14 Lakers with Kobe? :confusedshrug:

Have a washed up Jerry Stackhouse running my team or an aging Boozer. Can I choose a different team or sport? :kobe:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

- No shooting guard is a major contributor to a team's defense. Not once. Not ever in NBA history.

- Are the 14 Lakers minus Kobe any more offensively talented than the 07 Cavs minus Lebron?

-Because whether or not a player should take or shot or not within a certain game has no relationship to anything other than the players on the floor and the context of the situation. The numbers for players on different teams are irrelevant. Unless you can point me to a less talented offensive team putting up points at a more efficient clip, I'm not interested.

- I don't hold much value from on/off data from mostly blowout games in a ten game sample size :confusedshrug:

Yet you hold value from ORTG from the same sample?

[SamuraiSWISH]

I always knew that LeBron was overrated. Good shit OP.
derp
You forgot, according to OP

MJ, and LeBron. The 2x most decided better players from the modern era on the perimeter compared to Kobe.

Both hideously overrated. Defensive Rating, dog.

:oldlol:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I still can't believe this dude didn't know Mo Williams wasn't on the Cavs until '08-09...The narrative that the Cavs had finally found a 2nd scoring option was a big story throughout the season...they won 66 games were the talk of the NBA....Means he probably didn't start watching the NBA until after that season. unreal.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You forgot, according to OP

MJ, and LeBron. The 2x most decided better players from the modern era on the perimeter compared to Kobe.

Both hideously overrated. Defensive Rating, dog.

:oldlol:

Jordan mythologists stay forever thirsty for attention. Nobody said anything about Jordan.

:biggums:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan mythologists stay forever thirsty for attention. Nobody said anything about Jordan.

:biggums:
I'm not talking about Jordan. Obviously.

My post is addressing your agenda, and your obsession with throwing shade at every elite player not named Kobe, who is always glorified to the extremes in your eyes. Never seen for his flaws.

Totally delusional. And psycho.

Jordan fans don't make excuses for what he didn't do ... ala Kobe stans. They don't throw shade at other players.

Fans of MJ just talk about the reality of what he did achieve. That's not MYTH. That's reality.

Young LeBron stans are annoying. But honestly, since 2009 the guy they rep has been a better ball player than Kobe EVER was.

Once again, that's reality.

[Lord Bean]

I'm not talking about Jordan. Obviously.

My post is addressing your agenda, and your obsession with throwing shade at every elite player not named Kobe, who is always glorified to the extremes in your eyes. Never seen for his flaws.

Totally delusional. And psycho.

Jordan fans don't make excuses for what he didn't do ... ala Kobe stans. They don't throw shade at other players.

Fans of MJ just talk about the reality of what he did achieve. That's not MYTH. That's reality.

Young LeBron stans are annoying. But honestly, since 2009 the guy they rep has been a better ball player than Kobe EVER was.

Once again, that's reality.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[chazzy]

They don't throw shade at other players.

That's the only thing guys like DonDadda and andgar can do since 03. At least you're actually a Bulls fan and were a Kobe fan for a while

[SamuraiSWISH]

That's the only thing guys like DonDadda and andgar can do since 03. At least you're actually a Bulls fan and were a Kobe fan for a while
Yea, but what are your thoughts on YMF?

I mean in real life, I'm still a fan of Kobe's. Love his game, and his skill. It's entertaining. Always liked him because he reminded me of my ultimate favorite player. But the reality is he's still a watered down, cover band version of Jordan. Not much originality.

And without Phil Jackson to reign him in ... he has some alarming poor character issues. Especially as a "leader" of other men on the team. The more I age and mature, the more off putting it is honestly.

[Jacks3]

Jordan ******gers talking shit about Kobe needing Phil Jackson to reign him in.

Oh the irony. :oldlol:

[CelticBaller]

Oh I finally get it, OP is just pointing out how much better LeBron is than Kobe. While Kobe can't even manage to shoot above 40% LeBron in the other hand manage to take the same shitty team(statistically) to the finals in a tougher defensive conference.

Welcome to the LeBron family OP :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Cavs Offense:

LeBron On: 107.6
LeBron Off: 99.9

Cavs Defense:

LeBron On: 101.4
LeBron Off: 102.5

Lakers Offense:

Kobe On: 103.7
Kobe Off: 113.2

Lakers Defense:

Kobe On: 122.1
Kobe Off: 104.3


Not a LeBron fan here and I agree people severely underrate how good that 07 Cavs team was defensively (and they had the right personnel for LeBron ball) but... BRUH (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaSiWClteQ)


:bowdown:


Oh I finally get it, OP is just pointing out how much better LeBron is than Kobe. While Kobe can't even manage to shoot above 40% LeBron in the other hand manage to take the same shitty team(statistically) to the finals in a tougher defensive conference.

Welcome to the LeBron family OP :applause:

lol dumb me I didn't even realize he was trying to point that out... Its pretty obvious now in retrospect.