what player Archetypes are NECESSARY to win a chip?

[ralph_i_el]

Everyone knows a good basketball team needs role players to win a championship. So let's put together a list of roles that we think are MUST HAVES for any team to win. Then you can apply that list to sort the contenders from the pretenders. Here's what I have off the top of my head:

At least 2 great 3 point shooters. Guys that can shoot around 40% on a decent volume from 3

At least 1 off the dribble creator. I don't mean just creating for others. Just a guy who can take the ball and make a play with consistency. This guy is capable of being the engine that drives the offense.

A big man who can defend the rim

A wing defender who can check any SG or SF without being a mismatch.

A big man who can shoot to at least 18ft, and is a good passer.


I'm sure there are more archetypes I've missed. And some guys can fill multiple roles. Aka Dirk is the skilled big, elite shooter, and consistent creator.

[riseagainst]

Michael jordan: shot creator, wing defender, offensive anchor.

[ArbitraryWater]

A bench player who's calm and can create for himself and others...

(Experienced) vets for the locker room.

Coach, too... One who can excel in the X's and O's category, but also mentally..

Look at this Video How to build a Championship Culture (Championship Credentials) - Open Court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hStejQvjPFA

BTW: Eventually this might be like 'The perfect basketball team' and we will find many of these attributes in the '86 Celtics, I'm sure.

[riseagainst]

A bench player who's calm and can create for himself and others...

(Experienced) vets for the locker room.

A rim protector.

BTW: Eventually this might be like 'The perfect basketball team' and we will find many of these attributes in the '86 Celtics, I'm sure.

:applause:

96 bulls too.

[ralph_i_el]

A bench player who's calm and can create for himself and others...

(Experienced) vets for the locker room.

A rim protector.

BTW: Eventually this might be like 'The perfect basketball team' and we will find many of these attributes in the '86 Celtics, I'm sure.

^agree 100%

[Dragic4Life]

Lebron James - plays all 5 position.

Top 3 player of all time as of now (career not even close to done).

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron James - plays all 5 position.

Top 3 player of all time as of now (career not even close to done).

Man just once leave him out, this could be a great thread.

[Demitri98]

2014 Spurs:

2 great 3pt shooters: Parker, Ginobili, Belinelli, Mills, Kawhi, Bonner etc
Off the dribble creator: Parker, Ginobili
Rim protecting big: Duncan
Wing defender for SG/SFs: Kawhi
Mid range shooting/passing big: Duncan

2013 Heat:

2 great 3pt shooters: Ray, Battier, Miller
Off the dribble creator: LeBron, Wade
Rim protector: erm...Bosh? (:lol:)
Wing defender: LeBron, Wade, Battier
Mid range shooting/passing big: Bosh

2012 Heat:

2 great 3pt shooters: Battier, LeBron, Miller
Off the dribble creator: LeBron, Wade
Rim protector: uh...Bosh again? (:roll:)
Wing defender: LeBron, Battier
Mid range shooting/passing big: Bosh

2011 Mavs:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kidd, Terry, Dirk
Off the dribble creator: Dirk??
Rim protector: Chandler
Wing defender: Marion
Mid range shooting/passing big: Dirk

2010 Lakers:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kobe, Fisher
Off the dribble creator: Kobe
Rim protector: Bynum
Wing defender: MWP
Mid range shooting/passing big: Gasol

2009 Lakers:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kobe, Fisher, Ariza
Off the dribble creator: Kobe
Rim protector: Bynum
Wing defender: MWP
Mid range shooting/passing big: Gasol

2008 Celtics:

2 great 3pt shooters: Allen, Pierce
Off the dribble creator: Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Rim protector: KG
Wing defender: ..Pierce???
Mid range shooting/passing big: KG

2007 Spurs

2 great 3pt shooters: Parker, Ginobili
Off the dribble creator: Parker
Rim protector: Duncan
Wing defender: Bowen
Mid range shooting/passing big: Duncan

[ralph_i_el]

Lebron James - plays all 5 position.

Top 3 player of all time as of now (career not even close to done).

Dude could I ask you a favor?
Maybe just this once, you could not be a colossal f4ggot for an hour or two?

[ralph_i_el]

2014 Spurs:

2 great 3pt shooters: Parker, Ginobili, Belinelli, Mills, Kawhi, Bonner etc
Off the dribble creator: Parker, Ginobili
Rim protecting big: Duncan
Wing defender for SG/SFs: Kawhi
Mid range shooting/passing big: Duncan

2013 Heat:

2 great 3pt shooters: Ray, Battier, Miller
Off the dribble creator: LeBron, Wade
Rim protector: erm...Bosh? (:lol:)
Wing defender: LeBron, Wade, Battier
Mid range shooting/passing big: Bosh

2012 Heat:

2 great 3pt shooters: Battier, LeBron, Miller
Off the dribble creator: LeBron, Wade
Rim protector: uh...Bosh again? (:roll:)
Wing defender: LeBron, Battier
Mid range shooting/passing big: Bosh

2011 Mavs:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kidd, Terry, Dirk
Off the dribble creator: Dirk??
Rim protector: Chandler
Wing defender: Marion
Mid range shooting/passing big: Dirk

2010 Lakers:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kobe, Fisher
Off the dribble creator: Kobe
Rim protector: Bynum
Wing defender: MWP
Mid range shooting/passing big: Gasol

2009 Lakers:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kobe, Fisher, Ariza
Off the dribble creator: Kobe
Rim protector: Bynum
Wing defender: MWP
Mid range shooting/passing big: Gasol

2008 Celtics:

2 great 3pt shooters: Allen, Pierce
Off the dribble creator: Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Rim protector: KG
Wing defender: ..Pierce???
Mid range shooting/passing big: KG

2007 Spurs

2 great 3pt shooters: Parker, Ginobili
Off the dribble creator: Parker
Rim protector: Duncan
Wing defender: Bowen
Mid range shooting/passing big: Duncan

Way to break it down:applause: only a few exceptions so far. The Heat's lack of rim protection and surplus of wing defenders is probably the reason they blitzed for turnovers so much on D.

[ArbitraryWater]

1986 Celtics:

Scoring power, shooting, post-game, passing game and unselfishness, versatile players, clutchness, leadership, in-and-out game, inside presence, toughness/physicality, rebounding, size, team defense + a few individual defenders, great chemistry, IQ...

Perhaps missing a great athlete, but not necessary when you already have everything you wish a great athlete could do.

[FKAri]

3&D sf

[SHAQisGOAT]

A bench player who's calm and can create for himself and others...

(Experienced) vets for the locker room.

Coach, too... One who can excel in the X's and O's category, but also mentally..

Look at this Video How to build a Championship Culture (Championship Credentials) - Open Court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hStejQvjPFA

BTW: Eventually this might be like 'The perfect basketball team' and we will find many of these attributes in the '86 Celtics, I'm sure.

Yea, I agree.

A spark off the bench is many times needed too... Player that just energizes the team and the crowd while providing quality basketball in, at least, a certain aspect.

[SHAQisGOAT]

2014 Spurs:

2 great 3pt shooters: Parker, Ginobili, Belinelli, Mills, Kawhi, Bonner etc
Off the dribble creator: Parker, Ginobili
Rim protecting big: Duncan
Wing defender for SG/SFs: Kawhi
Mid range shooting/passing big: Duncan


Also a pretty mobile big-guy in Splitter, players that can post-up like Duncan or Diaw, and they can pass off the post, Green also a pretty good and athletic wing defender; so on... They had lots of diversity, and players good in many players, with an all-time great coach, that (and more) is what made them so terrific, despite the fact that they had, say, no top5 player in the league...



1986 Celtics:

Scoring power, shooting, post-game, passing game and unselfishness, versatile players, clutchness, leadership, in-and-out game, inside presence, toughness/physicality, rebounding, size, team defense + a few individual defenders, great chemistry, IQ...

Perhaps missing a great athlete, but not necessary when you already have everything you wish a great athlete could do.

Well said.

Yea, they had various players who were pretty good athletes (in many different ways) but I'd say they had no elite athlete... In his earlier, peak years, DJ was an elite athlete though; and they drafted Len Bias who was a beast of an athlete, but we all know what happened...
One of the best pure athletes on that team was David Thirdkill, and he was just warming the bench. Like you've said, it wasn't really necessary for them. Teams like the showtime Lakers, Nique's Hawks, Twin Towers Rockets, 80's Bucks, Bulls with Jordan or Woolridge... were some extremely athletic teams (and much more), with more than one elite athlete, but couldn't really beat the Celtics, in 1986.

[tpols]

you need some combination of a top 5 defense and a top 10 offense.. or a top 5 offense and top 10 defense(defense preferably). So defenders/coaching to make up either a great trapping team perimeter defense like heat/90s bulls, or great rim protection + great man to man like pistons or younger spurs. Plus at least one offensive superstar and preferably an all star sidekick.

[penny4president]

not a player... but a great coach like Pop

[Milbuck]

Old vet that doesn't contribute that much statistically throughout the regular season, but has a huge impact through leadership and locker room presence, and despite being old, can summon up close to their best play at key moments, key stretches.

Examples..

- Jason Kidd for Dallas in 2011
- Derek Fisher for LA in 2009/2010
- Gary Payton and Alonzo Mourning for Miami in 2006
- Ray Allen for Miami in 2013

[Demitri98]

2015 OKC Thunder

2 great 3pt shooters: Durant, Westbrook
Off the dribble creator: Durant, Westbrook
Rim protector: Ibaka, Adams
Wing defender: Roberson??
Mid range shooting/passing big: Ibaka (not so much the passing part)

[eklip]

2011 Mavs:

2 great 3pt shooters: Kidd, Terry, Dirk
Off the dribble creator: Dirk??
Rim protector: Chandler
Wing defender: Marion
Mid range shooting/passing big: Dirk


Why the question marks? Mavs offense in the clutch was pretty much: give Dirk the ball at the three point line and let him do his work.

Here are two examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C05TMdwJyYo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teu5FHC_ovY

Terry and Barea could also create off the dribble but only in pick and roll situations.

[Trollsmasher]

token white guy

[chips93]

2012 Heat:

2 great 3pt shooters: Battier, LeBron, Miller
Off the dribble creator: LeBron, Wade
Rim protector: uh...Bosh again? (:roll:)
Wing defender: LeBron, Battier
Mid range shooting/passing big: Bosh



id have lebron as their shooting/passing big

he played plenty of power forward that year.

[Smoke117]

You really don't need any archetypes if you have the right stars. Jordan and Pippen were the best all around players and defenders at their position. (same for Lebron and Wade to a lesser extent) They also dropped 30 and 20 points a game. The teams two best offensive players were the teams best defensive players...you know how easy that makes it to build around a 2 man core like that? I prefer star players who can affect the game in multiple ways so it makes it easier to build. This is in opposition to building around a player like Carmelo.

[bizil]

In my opinion, the best of the best to build around are:

- Dominant alpha dog centers (if they are great on both sides of the rock even better)- Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Walton, Robinson, Duncan (know he's a PF but u get the point), Ewing, Shaq, Moses, Reed


- Alpha dog perimeter players who are also great all around (in particular guys in that 6'4 to 6'9 bracket)- MJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Big O, Bron, West, Wade, Frazier, Payton, Barry, Hondo, Baylor, Drexler

I think if u can get either of these kind of players, u don't need as much to build around. If u have the LUXURY to have one of each, two perimeter guys, or a twin tower look, even better. But if u get at least ONE of these guys on a squad I think u are in great shape to start building. They fill so many holes OR dominate in an epic fashion up front that it makes everybody else's job A LOT EASIER!

[AboutBuckets]

2008 Celtics:

2 great 3pt shooters: Allen, Pierce
Off the dribble creator: Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Rim protector: KG
Wing defender: ..Pierce???
Mid range shooting/passing big: KG



Tony Allen.

[AboutBuckets]

I'd also argue the need for a guy who's not afraid to get messy/scrappy when plays break down/loose balls etc. Artest, Rodman, Patty Mills, Nick Collison (if OKC can get a chip), etc.

[T_L_P]

*Assuming you have two All-Stars (Aldridge and Lillard) or one megastar (LeBron, Durant, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq)

Teams needs 3 of 5 (highlighting players on teams from the past decade or so)

3 and D player (Bowen, Green, Horry, Battier, Sefolosha, etc)
Tall scrapper (Fox, Barnes, Haslem, Posey)
Rim protector (Chandler, Splitter, Hibbert)
Individual creator off the dribble (can't think of many non-stars...like Lin or Waiters or Brandon Knight, even though they aren't proven in the Playoffs)
Tone-setting veteran on the bench (Kevin Willis, Juwan Howard, Horace Grant, 'Zo)

Give 09 Wade 3 of those 5 players and a bunch of rounded players ala Steve Blake or Ed Davis and you have a contended...with solid coaching and something of a system, of course.

EDIT: that's probably not enough. You really need another fringe-star. Say someone like Rudy Gay, Batum, Rubio, etc.

[houston]

interesting thread

[IncarceratedBob]

black dudes

[stalkerforlife]

Archetypes?

We're talking about that in psychology class.

OP is a genius.

[Demitri98]

Bump...this was a great thread.

2 great 3pt shooters: Curry, Klay
Off the dribble creator: Curry Klay
Rim protector: Bogut
Wing defender: Iggy, Klay, Green
Mid range shooting/passing big: Bogut, Green

[chips93]

very few archetypes are totally necessary to win a title

the heat won without a shot blocking center, but they had to play a fast paced aggressive trapping defense, and had two very good shot blocking wings in wade and bron.

[I<3NBA]

i think a well-coached team can win any championship as long as injuries don't hit them.

in the playoffs, it's a battle between coaching, especially during the Finals. the coach usually makes or breaks the deal.

at that level, both teams have the players necessary to win. it's the coach that pushes them over the edge.

[3ball]

good shooting
wing athleticism
quality bigs can bang inside.. i.e. PJ Brown, Otis Thorpe, Ho Grant, tyrone hill ac green, tristan thompson

and a couple stars that play well together, or whose combination of talent is just so great (Shaq/Kobe, Lebron/Wade, Durant/Westbrook... although the latter hasn't won shit yet)