Are there new moves that haven't been used yet? Or has everything been done?

[oarabbus]

Obviously someone, somewhere, might have done a "new" move at some point in time. But for the purposes of this discussion we're talking about widespread moves. Has everything been done already? Any new hooks or set shots or other old day moves that can be revived with a new twist?

[Mr. Jabbar]

lebron to okc

[Rake2204]

Innovation will continue. We're not close to being done yet. There's different twists and details that can change current moves and there's surely new moves to be made altogether. There's been a ton of innovation and popularization within the last 10-15 years alone.

For an example, I recall seeing Doug Collins make a 360 jumpshot on ESPN's Greatest Games once. It look a long time for me to see a spinning non-dunk play like that again. Then I recall Vince Carter breaking off a clockwise 360 layup against LA during his Net years, and slowly but surely, it caught on - much smoother than anything Collins pulled off in that regard. Now we're looking at this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1589218/j-r-smith-360-lay-up-o.gif

But even beyond that, I think there's still tons of room for legitimate innovation, not mere refinement.

[chazzy]

Can't wait for the day someone does this in a game to avoid a block https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYdcDc8Yun0

[Rake2204]

Can't wait for the day someone does this in a game to avoid a block https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYdcDc8Yun0I was actually going to bring that one up. There's been folks claiming that every dunk that could be done has already been done, dating back to, like, 1995.

[oarabbus]

Innovation will continue. We're not close to being done yet. There's different twists and details that can change current moves and there's surely new moves to be made altogether. There's been a ton of innovation and popularization within the last 10-15 years alone.

For an example, I recall seeing Doug Collins make a 360 jumpshot on ESPN's Greatest Games once. It look a long time for me to see a spinning non-dunk play like that again. Then I recall Vince Carter breaking off a clockwise 360 layup against LA during his Net years, and slowly but surely, it caught on - much smoother than anything Collins pulled off in that regard. Now we're looking at this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1589218/j-r-smith-360-lay-up-o.gif

But even beyond that, I think there's still tons of room for legitimate innovation, not mere refinement.


Good post. I can't wait to see what comes next tbh. Also that "scorpion dunk" is awesome, guys reaction at :12 is priceless :oldlol:

But I meant more in terms of "moves" rather than dunks - as a rule of thumb something Paul Pierce could do haha

[lilteapot]

Dribbling backwards on a fastbreak and doing a 180

[Rake2204]

But I meant more in terms of "moves" rather than dunks - as a rule of thumb something Paul Pierce could do hahaYeah, I just thought the evolution of the dunk was comparable. People continue to find new ways to throw a ball into the goal. There's surely countless other means by which to play the game that we haven't discovered in every other aspect.

[Kblaze8855]

Innovation will continue. We're not close to being done yet. There's different twists and details that can change current moves and there's surely new moves to be made altogether. There's been a ton of innovation and popularization within the last 10-15 years alone.

For an example, I recall seeing Doug Collins make a 360 jumpshot on ESPN's Greatest Games once. It look a long time for me to see a spinning non-dunk play like that again. Then I recall Vince Carter breaking off a clockwise 360 layup against LA during his Net years, and slowly but surely, it caught on - much smoother than anything Collins pulled off in that regard. Now we're looking at this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1589218/j-r-smith-360-lay-up-o.gif

But even beyond that, I think there's still tons of room for legitimate innovation, not mere refinement.


The 360 Layup was Phil fords signature move 35 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bRLSq-1Mo


I didnt find the few he ever did...he did it all the time. He explained once that he wanted his own thing since he couldnt dunk...and he would set it up the same way most of the time.

Evolved into all kinds of jump stop layups and spin moves.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Innovation will continue. We're not close to being done yet. There's different twists and details that can change current moves and there's surely new moves to be made altogether. There's been a ton of innovation and popularization within the last 10-15 years alone.

For an example, I recall seeing Doug Collins make a 360 jumpshot on ESPN's Greatest Games once. It look a long time for me to see a spinning non-dunk play like that again. Then I recall Vince Carter breaking off a clockwise 360 layup against LA during his Net years, and slowly but surely, it caught on - much smoother than anything Collins pulled off in that regard. Now we're looking at this:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1589218/j-r-smith-360-lay-up-o.gif

But even beyond that, I think there's still tons of room for legitimate innovation, not mere refinement.


Westphal did it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-RX1B_tF5c&t=8m40s

Phil Ford was doing it on the regular:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlYHq4SE0M&t=1m50s

Dominique did it plenty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLAcLVfezM

Worthy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0ruk2SJ2Q&t=4m29s

can't tell who this is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0ruk2SJ2Q&t=2m26s


Seen plenty more but it's hard to (quickly) find...

[Rake2204]

The 360 Layup was Phil fords signature move 35 years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5bRLSq-1Mo


I didnt find the few he ever did...he did it all the time. He explained once that he wanted his own thing since he couldnt dunk...and he would set it up the same way most of the time.

Evolved into all kinds of jump stop layups and spin moves.That's good stuff. I appreciate the knowledge.

And that kinda adds to the point. I think some new moves will evolve from scratch, but I also think other moves will simply evolve a little to appear newer (like that 360 layup) while more still may just be moves that have always been around but for some reason or another, didn't get used frequently.

[Rake2204]

Westphal did it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-RX1B_tF5c&t=8m40s

Phil Ford was doing it on the regular:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlYHq4SE0M&t=1m50s

Dominique did it plenty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLAcLVfezM

Worthy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0ruk2SJ2Q&t=4m29s

can't tell who this is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0ruk2SJ2Q&t=2m26s


Seen plenty more but it's hard to (quickly) find...I think I failed to make my point clearly. I wasn't trying to say the play was never, ever completed. Rather, I was attempting to say that some plays that existed before, simply evolve and popularize as time goes on, often to the extent of appearing like a new move altogether. And then from there, sometimes they become more common, as it seems that layup has the past 10 years. I was not trying to say no one did it for a 30 year span, but I understand how it came across in that manner.

I'll fully 100% admit to this though: the moment I saw "Paul Westphal" in your links, I realized that it was his play I saw on ESPN's Greatest Games (the Boston Triple OT), not Doug Collins. Chalk it up as a subconscious mid-90's head coach slip. Such an insane shot, considering what was at stake and whatnot.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Pistol Pete was doing the Hakeem/Rondo/...-fakes way back, the behind-the-back fake pass on the regular before anybody else, Magic passes before Magic, so on and so on... Plenty of them you've seen duplicated and even becoming somebody else's "signature" move, but I don't think anybody else has ever done the wrist pass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qv0YS1wHoQ&t=1m35s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuiOBLkMKdk
Would've been cool to see somebody pull that every now and then during a game, even Maravich's slap passes on the break preceded by the fake slap(like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUcNUbl_meI)

[FKAri]

When the aliens inevitablly come and take over our planet, I am confident they will take basketball to the next level.

This era will be forgotten and everything asterisk'd with a "weak human era" tag.

jlauber/lazzerus descendents will still be hyping up Wilt tho as a superhuman who could compete in the modern era.

[Myth]

I'm still waiting on reverse granny free throws to become a thing in the NBA.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I think I failed to make my point clearly. I wasn't trying to say the play was never, ever completed. Rather, I was attempting to say that some plays that existed before, simply evolve and popularize as time goes on, often to the extent of appearing like a new move altogether. And then from there, sometimes they become more common, as it seems that layup has the past 10 years. I was not trying to say no one did it for a 30 year span, but I understand how it came across in that manner.

I'll fully 100% admit to this though: the moment I saw "Paul Westphal" in your links, I realized that it was his play I saw on ESPN's Greatest Games (the Boston Triple OT), not Doug Collins. Chalk it up as a subconscious mid-90's head coach slip. Such an insane shot, considering what was at stake and whatnot.

Gotcha...

True, crazy stuff and crazy game... Paul's a really underrated/overlooked player these days, he could ball. Tbh, Collins maybe even pulled something like that at some point, he was flashy and that was right up his alley, plus had many similarities to Westphal's game and played during the same time, so I understand the "confusion".

[YouGotServed]

That wrist pass is sick. .

[oarabbus]

That wrist pass is sick. .


The wrist pass is literally one of the most ridiculous basketball related things I've ever seen. I started laughing with my buddies when I first saw that Pistol mix. My brain was like surely you went temporarliy insane... would love to see that used in a game

[ralph_i_el]

Everyone go out their tomorrow and try to invent a new move.

Chris Paul likes to skip when he dribbles sometimes. It's like a hesitation for your feet.


My little brother fakes going behind the back and dribbles forward between he's legs. I'm still trying to convince him it's a stupid move.

[SHAQisGOAT]

That wrist pass is sick. .

The wrist pass is literally one of the most ridiculous basketball related things I've ever seen. I started laughing with my buddies when I first saw that Pistol mix. My brain was like surely you went temporarliy insane... would love to see that used in a game

You 1st see him do it on that display with Red, and you're like 'ok, that's a pretty cool move, takes plenty of practice to do effectively'; then you watch him pull it to perfection while running on a fastbreak, really making it work, making "the opponent eat air"... that's the type of basketball that leaves you like :eek:

Wrist-pass while in game? I only saw it once, from him (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuiOBLkMKdk)... but there's not much footage of him out there for grabs (such a shame), most likely he pulled that off plenty of more times.

[iamgine]

Obviously someone, somewhere, might have done a "new" move at some point in time. But for the purposes of this discussion we're talking about widespread moves. Has everything been done already? Any new hooks or set shots or other old day moves that can be revived with a new twist?
There's a no-look shot that I've seen someone do in the gym. He would post up back to basket but instead of turning around at the last second he just throws it without looking at all. Made it consistently too. Very hard to block since he also used pump fake and counter moves. If you try to overplay that shot he'd simply turn around and do a normal move which you're now in a bad position to defend.