Agree or disagree: Manus basketball IQ rivals any player in NBA history

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

this dude is just a genius. he drew up the gameclinching layup, a nice flare screen to a backdoor cut w/ timmy getting an open lane to pass from the high post and Manu hit it. In the huddle JVG was talkin about it how the players and the coaching staff (even Pop) was listening to Manu and u could see him organizing everyone, directing them and tellin them where to move............then the end he has the gamewinning steal and throws it up right on time

he sees plays before anybody and is one of the most skilled players ever
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/social_assets/nba/NBA_Finals/Game1/ManuLeGs.gif

[Akrazotile]

Second all-time behind JR Smith

[AirFederer]

I agree.

All time great player, especially his BBIQ. Underrated.

[T_L_P]

At his best he definitely needs to be mentioned with the all time greats (Walton, Kidd, Nash, Russell, Bird, Duncan, Stockton, Kirilenko when talking strictly defense, and a bunch more I've missed).

The slight problem is he's made some of the dumbest mistakes any star has ever made. If you were to balance the two, you'd still come to the conclusion that he's way up there though. Just perhaps not as sound as some of the others I've mentioned.

[oarabbus]

One of the best SGs to ever play. Could have been that guy that puts up NASTY stats as a starting SG but instead wanted to be the guy that puts the Spurs over the edge.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Hes also one of the most clutch players ever...........nikkas talk about him fouling Dirk in 06 but they dont mention the clutch 3 he hit right before to put the spurs into that position or the free throws Duncan missed, the turnovers or fouls he had.............i still remember when Manu hit the gamewinner against Denver and then drew the gamewinning charge on Melo b2b. sht was crazy

[SexSymbol]

Completely disagree.
I've never seen anyone make as many stupid passes as Ginobili tries to make.
I've seen so much games and threads about it where he cost Spurs the game in the clutch that I couldn't possibly remember half of them

[oarabbus]

Completely disagree.
I've never seen anyone make as many stupid passes as Ginobili tries to make.
I've seen so much games and threads about it where he cost Spurs the game in the clutch that I couldn't possibly remember half of them


:facepalm for every one of those there's 3 he won

For game 7 2013, there's his entire playoffs 2014

[L.A. Jazz]

Thats Manu! (ask Pop)

[T_L_P]

Hes also one of the most clutch players ever...........nikkas talk about him fouling Dirk in 06 but they dont mention the clutch 3 he hit right before to put the spurs into that position or the free throws Duncan missed, the turnovers or fouls he had.............i still remember when Manu hit the gamewinner against Denver and then drew the gamewinning charge on Melo b2b. sht was crazy

I was kind of hesitant in replying to this thread because I knew eventually it would get to something like this.

Duncan missed one FT, why is it a plural? He had 1 TO, with about 5 minutes left.

Last 5 minutes of the 4th:

Duncan:

DRB
TO
ORB/2 PTs (off a Manu missed shot)
2 PTs
Assist on Finley shot
DRB
1-2 FTs
Assist on Manu 3 (Terry doubled Duncan off Manu leaving him open)
ORB/Missed FG (Manu had the final shot on a 1-on-1 and missed the rim entirely)

Manu:

2-2 FTs
Missed FG (Duncan grabbed ORB off miss and scored)
3 PTs
Shooting foul on Dirk
Missed FG

Manu didn't have an FG attempt in the OT.

Yes Manu's clutch, but he's been equally unclutch in his career, and he's been lucky enough to be put in a position where he can pick and choose when he wants to really play (how many stars go without recording a FGA just one year after being the best player on a title team in arguably the biggest period of play in their lives?)

I don't want to sound like I hate Manu, because I just recently said his whole career is more valuable than KD's first 7 years, but he's not more valuable than Duncan -- which you implied in the above post and you've alluded to on other occasions -- and unlike almost everyone in the list above, he's never had to carry any sort of load, he's never been a franchise player (aside from the 05 Playoffs), and he's always been able to pick and choose when to step up. :confusedshrug:

[Crose]

I was kind of hesitant in replying to this thread because I knew eventually it would get to something like this.

Duncan missed one FT, why is it a plural? He had 1 TO, with about 5 minutes left.

Last 5 minutes of the 4th:

Duncan:

DRB
TO
ORB/2 PTs (off a Manu missed shot)
2 PTs
Assist on Finley shot
DRB
1-2 FTs
Assist on Manu 3 (Terry doubled Duncan off Manu leaving him open)
ORB/Missed FG (Manu had the final shot on a 1-on-1 and missed the rim entirely)

Manu:

2-2 FTs
Missed FG (Duncan grabbed ORB off miss and scored)
3 PTs
Shooting foul on Dirk
Missed FG

Manu didn't have an FG attempt in the OT.

Yes Manu's clutch, but he's been equally unclutch in his career, and he's been lucky enough to be put in a position where he can pick and choose when he wants to really play (how many stars go without recording a FGA just one year after being the best player on a title team in arguably the biggest period of play in their lives?)

I don't want to sound like I hate Manu, because I just recently said his whole career is more valuable than KD's first 7 years, but he's not more valuable than Duncan -- which you implied in the above post and you've alluded to on other occasions -- and unlike almost everyone in the list above, he's never had to carry any sort of load, he's never been a franchise player (aside from the 05 Playoffs), and he's always been able to pick and choose when to step up. :confusedshrug:
you mean like duncan since 2009 ?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I was kind of hesitant in replying to this thread because I knew eventually it would get to something like this.

Duncan missed one FT, why is it a plural? He had 1 TO, with about 5 minutes left.

Last 5 minutes of the 4th:

Duncan:

DRB
TO
ORB/2 PTs (off a Manu missed shot)
2 PTs
Assist on Finley shot
DRB
1-2 FTs
Assist on Manu 3 (Terry doubled Duncan off Manu leaving him open)
ORB/Missed FG (Manu had the final shot on a 1-on-1 and missed the rim entirely)

Manu:

2-2 FTs
Missed FG (Duncan grabbed ORB off miss and scored)
3 PTs
Shooting foul on Dirk
Missed FG

Manu didn't have an FG attempt in the OT.

Yes Manu's clutch, but he's been equally unclutch in his career, and he's been lucky enough to be put in a position where he can pick and choose when he wants to really play (how many stars go without recording a FGA just one year after being the best player on a title team in arguably the biggest period of play in their lives?)

I don't want to sound like I hate Manu, because I just recently said his whole career is more valuable than KD's first 7 years, but he's not more valuable than Duncan -- which you implied in the above post and you've alluded to on other occasions -- and unlike almost everyone in the list above, he's never had to carry any sort of load, he's never been a franchise player (aside from the 05 Playoffs), and he's always been able to pick and choose when to step up. :confusedshrug:
id never say Manu was better or more valuable than Duncan for their careers...............but fans always treat Duncan like he can do no wrong. always blame his teammates, never criticize him (im not talking about the boring narrative but his actual play)

[masonanddixon]

He completely dominates games on his own but he is also capable of incredibly retarded shit like fouling Dirk at the end of Game 7 2003

[T_L_P]

id never say Manu was better or more valuable than Duncan for their careers...............but fans always treat Duncan like he can do no wrong. always blame his teammates, never criticize him (im not talking about the boring narrative but his actual play)

But you flat out lied about his play...implying he missed 2 FTs and had a bunch of TOs in the dying moments...he was more active and, frankly, better than Manu was.

I've always given his teammates credit and criticized Duncan. Manu was our best player in 05...that's giving him tons of credit. Duncan choked in 01, 04, 08 and 11.

But you especially always have this passive criticism about him which is totally unfounded. Whilst Manu was busy giving the Spurs 23-3-3 on a cherry picked FG% (see above for his relatively inactive 4th Q and dismal OT), Duncan was putting up 41-15-6. Duncan was so bad after the game that he had to go on an IV...for carrying the load so much...playing all but 4 minutes on a bum leg/constantly banging with Dallas' bigs. Manu meanwhile was being yelled out in the lockeroom by Pop for screwing in ways few players ever have. :confusedshrug:

Also, here are the clutch numbers...

In game tying or winning shots in 4th/OT, with 24 seconds or less remaining...

Manu is 14-50 (28%)
Duncan is 25-64 (39%)

But, as I've seen in your other posts, Manu is nothing but clutch and Duncan is the guy always relying on others.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

But you flat out lied about his play...implying he missed 2 FTs and had a bunch of TOs in the dying moments...he was more active and, frankly, better than Manu was.

I've always given his teammates credit and criticized Duncan. Manu was our best player in 05...that's giving him tons of credit. Duncan choked in 01, 04, 08 and 11.

But you especially always have this passive criticism about him which is totally unfounded. Whilst Manu was busy giving the Spurs 23-3-3 on a cherry picked FG% (see above for his relatively inactive 4th Q and dismal OT), Duncan was putting up 41-15-6. Duncan was so bad after the game that he had to go on an IV...for carrying the load so much...playing all but 4 minutes on a bum leg/constantly banging with Dallas' bigs. Manu meanwhile was being yelled out in the lockeroom by Pop for screwing in ways few players ever have. :confusedshrug:

Also, here are the clutch numbers...

In game tying or winning shots in 4th/OT, with 24 seconds or less remaining...

Manu is 14-50 (28%)
Duncan is 25-64 (39%)

But, as I've seen in your other posts, Manu is nothing but clutch and Duncan is the guy always relying on others.
i was goin off memory i didnt look at the play by plays like u :biggums: :biggums:

okay so u admit Duncans low points :applause: :applause: most Duncan fans dont from what ive talked to..............

[T_L_P]

i was goin off memory i didnt look at the play by plays like u :biggums: :biggums:

okay so u admit Duncans low points :applause: :applause: most Duncan fans dont from what ive talked to..............

I've watched the game many times...shit, the 4th Q is on Youtube somewhere.

Ah, found the post I remembered reading:


The one that didnt get shit on by his teammate in international play while he choked without his GOAT coach to bail him out, disgracing the US and showing he was never a true leader of men. Just a talented soldier that leads by following instructions from the general

There are other posts where you've called Manu and maybe Parker San Antonio's best players since about 06...again, not even close, as all the numbers and what I've said explains.

So yes, I'd say your posts reek of an anti-Duncan agenda with unfounded info..You talk about Duncan fans not giving anyone credit (which isn't true anyway), but I know damn well know you don't give him any. Splitter is our best defender. KG is better. He's not a leader. Manu is more clutch. Manu is flat-out better, et al.

At least being even with things. You're a smart poster but you're definitely the most biased (who isn't either a LeBron or Kobe stan).

[Marchesk]

Jordan
Ginobli
West
Kobe
Wade

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I've watched the game many times...shit, the 4th Q is on Youtube somewhere.

Ah, found the post I remembered reading:



There are other posts where you've called Manu and maybe Parker San Antonio's best players since about 06...again, not even close, as all the numbers and what I've said explain.

So yes, I'd say your posts reek of an anti-Duncan agenda with unfounded info..You talk about Duncan fans not giving anyone credit (which isn't true anyway), but I know damn well you don't give him any. Splitter is our best defender. KG is better. He's not a leader. Manu is more clutch. Manu is flat-out better, et al.

At least being even with things.
Splitter WAS ur best defender last year, he was the one taking the toughest assignments (shut down Dirk and LMA), his help defense was great and Timmys rim protecting and drebounding wasnt enough to overcome all of that IMO. Splitter is one of the best defenders in the league its not like its a knock on Timmy hes not in his prime anymore:biggums: :biggums:

I think KG is a greater player just on the wrong side of the fortune w/ a lot of unlucky circumstances out of his control

Duncan is more like a loyal soldier hes never had the qualities of a leader to me. Pop is the true leader and everyone just follows by example..........thats how ive always saw it

I said Manu was flatout better LAST SEASON obviously for their careers or primes its Duncan and its not close. Kawhi after coming back from injury and Manu were clearly ur best players last year

[iamgine]

I remember Manu cost the Spurs 1 championship with a dumb play.

Certainly he has a very high bball iq though.

[Asukal]

I agree. :bowdown:

[iamgine]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/social_assets/nba/NBA_Finals/Game1/ManuLeGs.gif
That gif is a dumb pass tho.

[andremiller07]

Might be the most underrated pick n roll player of all time, the guy is a master of it, dude has insane feel for the game.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Manu is entertaining, a great player, but ISH has been overrating this guy for years.

[pastis]

Also, here are the clutch numbers...

In game tying or winning shots in 4th/OT, with 24 seconds or less remaining...

Manu is 14-50 (28%)
Duncan is 25-64 (39%)

But, as I've seen in your other posts, Manu is nothing but clutch and Duncan is the guy always relying on others.

you dont thik that these numbers come along with the fact, that duncans shot are not that far away from the basket unlike ginobilis? not a fair comparison to compare a shooter with someone who makes layups or taking shots close to the baskets.

not that you understand me wrong. you cant compare ginobili with duncan by careers, but cmon the stats arent comparable...

[Bimbo Coles]

Jordan
Ginobli
West
Kobe
Wade Kobe? Hehe.

Kidd has to be right near the top. The guy carried the two most untalented squads in NBA history to finals appearances, with what's between his ears. His positioning on the court, defensively and in anticipation of the rebound, was second to none.

[T_L_P]

you dont thik that these numbers come along with the fact, that duncans shot are not that far away from the basket unlike ginobilis? not a fair comparison to compare a shooter with someone who makes layups or taking shots close to the baskets.

not that you understand me wrong. you cant compare ginobili with duncan by careers, but cmon the stats arent comparable...

Duncan's long fadeaway over Shaq in 04. Duncan's fadeaway winner over Malone around 00 (may have been earlier). Duncan's 3 vs Phoenix. Duncan's turnaround jumper against Atlanta. Same thing against the Clippers. Same thing against the Hornets. Turnaround last year vs. OKC.

I honestly can't remember a huge shot he hit under the circumstances you describe. :confusedshrug:

[pastis]

Duncan's long fadeaway over Shaq in 04. Duncan's fadeaway winner over Malone around 00 (may have been earlier). Duncan's 3 vs Phoenix. Duncan's turnaround jumper against Atlanta. Same thing against the Clippers. Same thing against the Hornets. Turnaround last year vs. OKC.

I honestly can't remember a huge shot he hit under the circumstances you describe. :confusedshrug:

yea i remember the 04 shot, and the 3pointer:applause:

no doubt that duncan hits some tough long distance shots, but i think that most of the clch shots were pretty close to the basket (from you 25 mentioned).

[T_L_P]

yea i remember the 04 shot, the 3pointer:applause:

no doubt that duncan hits some tough long distance shots, but i think that most of the clch shots were pretty close to the basket (from you 25 mentioned).

Maybe. I don't recall all that many.

Obviously it's not totally fair to compare a big to a guard, but Manu's 29% isn't all that great imo. He is clutch. But he's not some clutch god. He's not a franchise player so we don't really remember all the misses. :confusedshrug:

[pastis]

Maybe. I don't recall all that many.

Obviously it's not totally fair to compare a big to a guard, but Manu's 29% isn't all that great imo. He is clutch. But he's not some clutch god. He's not a franchise player so we don't really remember all the misses. :confusedshrug:


thats right