Is Karl Malone underrated and disrespected on InsideHoops?

[Im Still Ballin]

The man was amazing. Played for nearly 20 years, scored more points than anyone besides Kareem, won 2 MVP's, went to the finals twice. It sucks that he came up in the time of Air Jordan. People only remember him as the choker it seems on this forum. Everyone on here talks about how Kobe's longevity is amazing. Malone's was as well. His last season in Utah he was still dropping 21 and 8, on 46% yes, but at the time it was the most defensive era of NBA ball.

[russwest0]

Of course he is.

The greatest PF to ever play the game, just happened to play during Jordan's time.

[lilteapot]

Of course he is.

The greatest PF to ever play the game, just happened to play during Jordan's time.
Really? Not gonna berate him for being a perennial choker?

[Im Still Ballin]

Of course he is.

The greatest PF to ever play the game, just happened to play during Jordan's time.
I envision in 20 years time we could perhaps make the same thread for Durant...

"Just happened to play during Lebron's time..."

[Jlamb47]

Hes top 5 PF of all time

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Dirk
4. Malone/ Chuck
5. Chuck/ Malone

Garnett n Duncan are just beast on 2 way basketball

[russwest0]

I envision in 20 years time we could perhaps make the same thread for Durant...

"Just happened to play during Duncan's time..."

Yup.

[Im Still Ballin]

Hes top 5 PF of all time

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Dirk
4. Malone/ Chuck
5. Chuck/ Malone

Garnett n Duncan are just beast on 2 way basketball
The thought being though... Do we underrate Malone and Chuck because they came up in Air Jordan's reign?

Would they have accomplished more in the era that Duncan Dirk and KG played in?

[Im Still Ballin]

Yup.
Durant wasn't in the league for Duncan's MVPs or early championships. Only around for 2?

Lebron has 2 rings and 5 finals appearances in that timeframe. Not to mention 4 MVPs. I think it would be more just to call it Lebron's time than Duncan's.

[SHAQisGOAT]

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. KG
then Chuck/Dirk/Pettit...

[russwest0]

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. KG
then Chuck/Dirk/Pettit...

Eh, I'd consider Duncan a center but if we're calling him a PF then yeah, Malone is #2 right there with Dirk.

[Jlamb47]

The thought being though... Do we underrate Malone and Chuck because they came up in Air Jordan's reign?

Would they have accomplished more in the era that Duncan Dirk and KG played in?

I dont think they are underrated. Duncan and Garnett would be ahead of both of them with 0 rings imo they are 2 way players and thats more impact then what Malone brings.

[Xiao Yao You]

Malone wasn't a 2 way player? He played his worst ball when it counted most and as far as I'm concerned wasn't the best player on his team Stockton was.

[riseagainst]

Yup.

:lol

[swagga]

1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. KG
then Chuck/Dirk/Pettit...

as much as I am a KG fan, you can't put him over dirk simply because KG couldn't take over offensively. Duncan/malone/dirk/chuck could all carry their teams with monster offensive performances, kg not so much (he was still very good). You could argue KG took over defensively.. but it's easier to replace defense than carrying offense.

IMO, career wise:
Duncan >> Malone > KG/Dirk > Chuck
peak wise:
Duncan > Malone > KG/Chuck > Dirk

I haven't seen pettit, i'll take your word for him being good.
I'm curious, what do you think about elton brand and amare stoudemire peakwise? That 40ppg series against duncan was :wtf:

[stalkerforlife]

I have him as a top 15 player of all time and 3rd best PF of all time behind Duncan and Dirk.

[JT123]

I envision in 20 years time we could perhaps make the same thread for Durant...

"Just happened to play during Lebron's time..."
Malone and Durant are pretty similar when you think about it. Both look like superman during the regular season, but come playoff time they turn into mighty mouse. :lol

[Jlamb47]

Malone and Durant are pretty similar when you think about it. Both look like superman during the regular season, but come playoff time they turn into mighty mouse. :lol
-_- Lebron stans trollin......never gets old do it?

Durant is a beast in the playoffs check his numbers

you can tag Lebron in the convo too if ya wanna talk about performance
member 2011???

[-23-]

Malone was a great 2 way player. He'd wipe out your defenders with his elbows.

[iamgine]

The man was amazing. Played for nearly 20 years, scored more points than anyone besides Kareem, won 2 MVP's, went to the finals twice. It sucks that he came up in the time of Air Jordan. People only remember him as the choker it seems on this forum. Everyone on here talks about how Kobe's longevity is amazing. Malone's was as well. His last season in Utah he was still dropping 21 and 8, on 46% yes, but at the time it was the most defensive era of NBA ball.
Longevity is nice sure. MVPs too but it is a regular season award. Malone is notorious for shrinking and choking in the playoff. I guess people expected more from a man who is often argued as the best PF ever.

Plus he had bad reputation as a dirty player on court and his off court reputation isn't great either what with him being a deadbeat dad.

[dreamwarrior]

Best scoring pf of all time. Morevintimidatingvthan charles.

[Anaximandro1]

Eh, I'd consider Duncan a center but if we're calling him a PF then yeah, Malone is #2 right there with Dirk.

Tim Duncan played the power forward position in his youth.

Now he's a center. He is no longer quick and athletic.


Tim Duncan - Basketball Reference position estimates

2000/01 PF 61% -- C 39%

2001/02 PF 60% -- C 40%

2002/03 PF 56% -- C 44%

2003/04 PF 57% -- C 43%

2004/05 PF 47% -- C 53%

2005/06 PF 71% -- C 29%
----------------------------------

2006/07 PF 29% -- C 71%

2007/08 PF 6% -- C 94%

----------------------------------

2008 - 2014 -> C 100%




Is Karl Malone underrated and disrespected on InsideHoops


Karl Malone was a regular season beast but his offensive game didn't translate well over to the playoffs. For example:


Playoffs- Karl Malone


1996 TS% 49.8 --- ORtg 105 --- PER 23.6 (Lost NBA WCF)

1997 TS% 50.1 --- ORtg 105 --- PER 22.2 (Lost NBA Finals)

1998 TS% 53.4 --- ORtg 105 --- PER 24.2 (Lost NBA Finals)

1999 TS% 49.2 --- ORtg 100 --- PER 21.2 (Lost NBA WCSF)


Playoffs- Dirk Nowitzki


2011 TS% 60.9 --- ORtg 115 --- PER 25.2 (Won NBA Finals)


Playoffs- Tim Duncan


1999 TS% 57.3 --- ORtg 110 --- PER 25.1 (Won NBA Finals)

2003 TS% 57.7 --- ORtg 116 --- PER 28.4 (Won NBA Finals)

2005 TS% 52.6 --- ORtg 111 --- PER 24.9 (Won NBA Finals)

2007 TS% 55.6 --- ORtg 111 --- PER 27.4 (Won NBA Finals)

[Smoke117]

Yes...kind of. To be fair..he played a position that has had a lot of great players with great careers. He is disrespected if you are going to bring that he never won a championship. Individual players don't win championships...teams do. It is a team accomplishment. I don't think you need to win a championship to cement your greatness.

[DaRkJaWs]

The reason Malone's numbers were up in the regular season and down in the playoffs is that he, like a Wilt Chamberlain, was the offensive hub of the team in the regular season and teams exploited that in the playoffs. But unlike Wilt, who shot less in the playoffs as a result of this and other team strategies, Malone still had to play his game in order for the Jazz to have a chance. He wasn't like Wilt in having a huge body that could impact the court on the defensive end in case his offense was shut down. So his TS% went down against defenses that focused on him, and he had very little help on the offensive end to take pressure off of him. He is disrespected beyond belief everywhere I go, and it's really a damn shame. I'd like to say people "forget" how good he made the Jazz in 97 and 98, but I think most people really never knew. Those jazz teams were great, and they belong in the discussion of great teams of the 80s and 90s. If he epitomizes what a Power Forward should be, then he is the best PF of all time, I don't consider Duncan a PF and quite frankly I think skillwise Malone was better anyway...Duncan had the benefit of being a mobile big man with long arms, which helped his teams immensely. Malone did not have that luxury.

But on the subject of defense, I'll give credit to Malone in one area that nobody else ever mentions: drawing fouls on the defensive end. He was historically great at drawing fouls and simply frustrating the other team. People should watch videos of the Jazz during the playoffs to specifically look for this. Phil Jackson himself was frustrated as hell at all the calls the Jazz would get because of Malone drawing so many fouls. Sure, he flopped sometimes, but it was because of his athleticism and skills that he was always able to frustrate the other team. I have never seen someone that did this as successfully as Malone, although I will give a small shout out to Robert Horry, and a smaller shout out to Dennis Rodman.

[FKAri]

I don't underrate him. But I definitely disrespect him :lol .

[CAstill]

He's overrated. Still a top 5 pf of all time though.
Slightly better than Garnett but he had a better team for a while there. Add in good coaching and a faithful fan base, he under achieved. The best PF of all time would of won one against the GOAT sg. Or at least one title in their career.

[DaRkJaWs]

He's overrated. Still a top 5 pf of all time though.
Slightly better than Garnett but he had a better team for a while there. Add in good coaching and a faithful fan base, he under achieved. The best PF of all time would of won one against the GOAT sg. Or at least one title in their career.
Someone who destroyed his competition in both years they went to the finals and went up against a formidable Bulls team, who exploited their one weakness in not having go to offensive players other than Malone, and played as well as they did and yet you have the balls to say that these finals appearances show he wasn't championship quality? Sometimes I wonder if you losers ever actually watched the games as they were happening. Actually I don't wonder. Other than some games in the Finals, I doubt you watched any of the playoffs in the western conference before that. Like how he swept every young idiots favorite player Shaq like he was a little kid. The same Shaq that got swept so many times its embarrassing for someone some people say is one of the top 3 players all time.

[CAstill]

Someone who destroyed his competition in both years they went to the finals and went up against a formidable Bulls team, who exploited their one weakness in not having go to offensive players other than Malone, and played as well as they did and yet you have the balls to say that these finals appearances show he wasn't championship quality? Sometimes I wonder if you losers ever actually watched the games as they were happening.

What are you even trying to say? You sound like an idiot. I watched those finals live so miss me with your garbage ass opinions. Malone wasn't dominating anyone. The Jazz were a very good team and he didn't deliver with them period. He didn't just play for 6 years and happened to be unfortunate to be in Jordan's era. He didn't do anything in the 80's and got banged by Kemp, Barkley, and Hakeem all playoffs long until they all were no longer as capable. Barkley was past his prime, Kemp got traded, Hakeem already won rings. Only then was his team able to go to the finals and lose. He was overrated. If he was that good he would of delivered on Sundays instead of choking.

[DaRkJaWs]

What are you even trying to say? You sound like an idiot. I watched those finals live so miss me with your garbage ass opinions. Malone wasn't dominating anyone. The Jazz were a very good team and he didn't deliver with them period. He didn't just play for 6 years and happened to be unfortunate to be in Jordan's era. He didn't do anything in the 80's and got banged by Kemp, Barkley, and Hakeem all playoffs long until they all were no longer as capable. Barkley was past his prime, Kemp got traded, Hakeem already won rings. Only then was his team able to go to the finals and lose. He was overrated. If he was that good he would of delivered on Sundays instead of choking.
Understand something, pal. Everyone has a window of opportunity to win a championship. Malone was a solid player his entire career, and from 96-99 were his PEAK years. During those peak years he took a spectacular Jazz team to the finals twice, and just barely came up short. Many of those games could have gone either way and you know it (all except one of the games, anyway). For you to pretend as if this is not true just shows that you're no analyst and someone who likes to use false narratives to bring people up or down. Circumstance, evidence, this stuff doesn't matter to you. Jordan himself praises the Jazz team he had to face whenever he gets a chance, and he himself always says how those series could have went either way.

And it's telling that you didn't bring up the 98 Lakers as a formidable team even though they won 60+ games that year, because you'd rather pretend the Jazz didn't make them look like children, especially Malone.

[CAstill]

Understand something, pal. Everyone has a window of opportunity to win a championship. Malone was a solid player his entire career, and from 96-99 were his PEAK years. During those peak years he took a spectacular Jazz team to the finals twice, and just barely came up short. Many of those games could have gone either way and you know it (all except one of the games, anyway). For you to pretend as if this is not true just shows that you're no analyst and someone who likes to use false narratives to bring people up or down. Circumstance, evidence, this stuff doesn't matter to you.

And it's telling that you didn't bring up the 98 Lakers as a formidable team even though they won 60+ games that year, because you'd rather pretend the Jazz didn't make them look like children, especially Malone.

That was a young Lakers team when experience was vital in the league. Of course the Jazz beat them but that was for nothing as they didn't win the title and the Lakers went on a Dynasty run few years later. I've obviously watched the games. Malone is top 5 pf ever, I've already stated that but he isn't the best ever. That's where he gets overrated. At his very best he wasn't the best. End of story.

[DaRkJaWs]

That was a young Lakers team when experience was vital in the league. Of course the Jazz beat them but that was for nothing as they didn't win the title and the Lakers went on a Dynasty run few years later. I've obviously watched the games. Malone is top 5 pf ever, I've already stated that but he isn't the best ever. That's where he gets overrated. At his very best he wasn't the best. End of story.
Oh, So experience accounts for the fact that the Lakers couldn't even win one game? Right.

Malone was a two time MVP, so I beg to differ. And what also gives him the nod as the best PF ever is that he actually got better after 10 years in the league, and had amazing longevity that someone like Barkley never had. Duncan isn't a PF, and while I have to respect Garnett individually he wasn't quite the talent that Malone was. Dirk is great but I don't consider him a PF in the way a PF normally plays the game. I'd say Dirk is right there with Malone, though.

[ILLsmak]

Bulls were better. No way utah was gonna beat em. Impossible. The jazz were good, but they didn't have a lot of talent. They had two amazing players, but they didn't have anyone else who could get you enough points to win. Malone would have had to get 40 ppg for them to win. They had some guys I liked to watch... antoine carr for instance, but talent wise not a championship team. Props for making the finals.

-Smak

[FireDavidKahn]

Having sex with a 13 year old and getting her pregnant will do that to a mans reputation. Even without that incident, Karl Malone is a complete and vile scumbag. He deserves to be disrespected.

[Smoke117]

Having sex with a 13 year old and getting her pregnant will do that to a mans reputation. Even without that incident, Karl Malone is a complete and vile scumbag. He deserves to be disrespected.

This is the NBA basketball board...not the morality board.

[FireDavidKahn]

This is the NBA basketball board...not the morality board.
Hence why I used the word disrespected. He was a great basketball player, but he deserves to be disrespected in every way possible.

[Purch]

Not underrated.. In that group right under Duncan..

Along with Garnett, Dirk and Barkley

[Pointguard]

Oh, So experience accounts for the fact that the Lakers couldn't even win one game? Right.

Malone was a two time MVP, so I beg to differ. And what also gives him the nod as the best PF ever is that he actually got better after 10 years in the league, and had amazing longevity that someone like Barkley never had. Duncan isn't a PF, and while I have to respect Garnett individually he wasn't quite the talent that Malone was. Dirk is great but I don't consider him a PF in the way a PF normally plays the game. I'd say Dirk is right there with Malone, though.
Good post.

Malone really would beat up on who ever was guarding him. So I even give his defense a bit of a higher score because his defender was usually worn down by chasing him or his bruising tactics by the end of the series. You also explained how teams isolated him in the playoffs and it affected TS/FG%. His numbers in the playoffs and regular season were almost identical otherwise with a great sample size and 19 years of true work.

I will also add that Stockton slowed the game down and didn't take as many fastbreak chances which would have increased his TS% and FG%. In the playoffs teams took more a chance of doubling hard on Malone so a dip in efficiency should be expected. The other thing is that not even Duncan wins if Jordan is fit and hungry.

Without Jordan, Malone probably would be the only PF to do a back to back championship. Instead he kind of underachieved, but a 25/11 against one of the smartest, super defensive units in the game. With Rodman, arguably the best one on one defenders alltime, Pippen one the best team defenders alltime, and Jordan one of the best help defenders alltime. I really don't see any PF getting better numbers than Malone did on that Bulls team.

Malone got 27/12/5 with 2 steals per game against two very solid big time defenders in Kemp/Perkins, the year before.

[ArbitraryWater]

Having sex with a 13 year old and getting her pregnant will do that to a mans reputation. Even without that incident, Karl Malone is a complete and vile scumbag. He deserves to be disrespected.

Pretty much.

[c5terror]

The man was amazing. Played for nearly 20 years, scored more points than anyone besides Kareem, won 2 MVP's, went to the finals twice. It sucks that he came up in the time of Air Jordan. People only remember him as the choker it seems on this forum. Everyone on here talks about how Kobe's longevity is amazing. Malone's was as well. His last season in Utah he was still dropping 21 and 8, on 46% yes, but at the time it was the most defensive era of NBA ball.

Yes he's underrated as the most dirtiest player of all time

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2014/gDY1sk.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-15-2014/O_JGIx.gif

[Pointguard]

Yeah, he was dirty and plenty to dislike about the guy.

[Angel Face]

Karl could be a 2 time back to back champ if not for the Bulls and MJ being the difference of those series. He has a tendency to choke though. Remember, the mailman doesn't deliver on Sundays.