Explaining LeBrons decline.

[TonyMontana]

The reasons.

1. the unavoidable aging proess.

2. He spent the entire offseason trying to hype up his brand "The King is coming back!". Does anyone think he put as much effort on his actual craft as he has done in the past? At this point it's 100% about his brand and milking money from the sheep.

3. He no longer has future hall of fame coach Erik Spoelstra holding his hand, giving him optimal offensive spacing and elite team defensive schemes.

4. going to emphasize on spacing and specifically on how Love is a worse fit than Bosh. It doesn't help that a lot of Clevelands other "contributers" cant shoot for shit. This thompson dude,waiters who absolutely sucks.
Kevin Love is better, but the biggest drawback is that you need to combine a rim protecting defensive behemoth with him at center. Those guys arn't too easy to find.

Bosh can do a much better job at half assing that role which lets him fit in at center and doesn't sacrifice as much defense, while still giving the offense elite spacing on the other end of the floor.

We are seeing time and time again that when LeBron doesn't get the spacing he ain't shit. You can't put Love at the 5 though without geting raped on defense.

[c5terror]

The reasons.

1. the unavoidable aging proess.

2. He spent the entire offseason trying to hype up his brand "The King is coming back!". Does anyone think he put as much effort on his actual craft as he has done in the past? At this point it's 100% about his brand and milking money from the sheep.

3. He no longer has future hall of fame coach Erik Spoelstra holding his hand, giving him optimal offensive spacing and elite team defensive schemes.

your forget the 4th one, No PEDS

[J Shuttlesworth]

your forget the 4th one, No PEDS

Fitting that he only contributed to the first 3 reasons, and then skipped the 4th

[TonyMontana]

your forget the 4th one, No PEDS

if these guys want to get on PEDs they have the trainers/doctors with the knowledge to pass these tests.

I know for a fact nearly every guy in the NFL barring kickers/QBs is on something, not necessarily for building muscle, but for keeping it during a grueling season.

[JohnMax]

If Love continues to play this sub par too its going to give alot of credence to people bringing up the point about him marginalizing good- to great players games.

[TonyMontana]

If Love continues to play this sub par too its going to give alot of credence to people bringing up the point about him marginalizing good- to great players games.

I' posted this in another thread, but I will add it here as a 4th reason since it is significant. (on Love vs Bosh))

Kevin Love is better, but the biggest drawback is that you need to combine a rim protecting defensive behemoth with him at center. Those guys arn't too easy to find.

Bosh can do a much better job at half assing that role which lets him fit in at center and doesn't sacrifice as much defense, while still giving the offense elite spacing on the other end of the floor.

We are seeing time and time again that when LeBron doesn't get the spacing he ain't shit. You can't put Love at the 5 though without geting raped on defense.

[Milbuck]

I'm not gonna get into your second and third points, but your first point is reasonable, and your fourth point pretty much sums up why I think they'll be good enough to make it through the East, but will get murked into the ground by whichever team makes it out of the West.

San Antonio, Dallas, healthy OKC, possibly even Golden State, in-form LAC, Portland..these teams will absolutely massacre that Cleveland defense. Especially seeing what San Antonio did to Miami in the last finals, and how Dallas' offense looks now so early in the season..it would be a slaughter.

People keep likening this Cleveland situation to the early Big 3 Heat...it's not even remotely close. Those early Heat squads were still playing sound defense..it wasn't as refined as it'd get later on when they won the chips, but the roster was there, the system was developing, and the consistent effort was there to defend at a good to high level.

This Cavs team is fundamentally flawed top to bottom defensively. Love is abysmal defensively, it's pretty much a layup line for the opposition if you don't have an elite defensive anchor there..which they don't have. Varejao is solid, but solid doesn't compensate for Love, and it sure as hell isn't enough to develop a championship level defense. Lebron himself has slipped defensively, whether it's declining athleticism, disinterest, fatigue, etc. Thompson, Waiters, Irving, Miller, etc..just a recipe for disaster defensively.

[K Xerxes]

I still refuse to believe that we are witnessing such a steep decline at the age of 29. I don't know what it is, but I'm sure he'll pick it up soon, even if we never see the consistency of 09-14 James again. The best part of his game right now is the 3 ball unbelievably.

What's really staggering is the effort he's putting at getting back on fastbreaks. I don't know if he's just trying to leak out so he can get one himself in case of a turnover, or he doesn't care, or he's too gassed to run back... but the Cavs are playing 4 on 5 a lot of the time. It has to start with him giving full effort. He is playing a lot of minutes to be fair, but I wonder if his fitness isn't where it should be.

If we are witnessing the 'decline', then I don't know what to say. I guess it was a privilege seeing what he can do in his peak and prime, but this early...?

[poido123]

The dude has an over inflated ego and has been told how great he is since high school. With expectations placed on him, he has sort out shortcuts to alleviate the lack of heart and guts needed to reach the expectations of greatness placed on him.

This would also explain HGH use. Another shortcut to deal with the growing expectations.

It's highly coincidental that his game and explosiveness has declined in line with this year's HGH testing.

This is a dude Who gets a bigger headband to cover up a hairline and team hops into super teams. Everything he does reflects a highly insecure character and a guy who will take shortcuts to protect his rep. :rolleyes:

[Magic 32]

The reasons.

1. the unavoidable aging proess.



http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/kobe-finger-wag-kobe-bryant-gifs.gif?w=640

[TheMan]

If Love continues to play this sub par too its going to give alot of credence to people bringing up the point about him marginalizing good- to great players games.
This

Time to finally blow up that whole "LeBron makes his teammates better" thing the LeStan mythologists love promoting. It is no coincidence that when Magic played, his teammates production went up, when he didn't, it went down. The opposite happens with LeBron, Wade and Bosh saw their stats go down when they played with him and now that's happening to Love and Irving...

[TaLvsCuaL]

https://i.imgflip.com/ehh6b.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/ehh6b)

[Indian guy]

I don't know how he could lose so much athleticism within 6 months. Last season was his most athletic since 2010. As an offensive player, I don't know if he had ever been better. Fast forward 6 months later and he's completely devoid of explosiveness on the basketball court. Can't drive past anyone, can't jump and no stamina either.

Looks like the beginning of the end of his days as an elite basketball player.

[Blue&Orange]

If Love continues to play this sub par too its going to give alot of credence to people bringing up the point about him marginalizing good- to great players games.
not a point, a fact, during some cavs games, ESPN trying to prop up LEbon showed a graph where the Heat team where 4x time more depended of LEbron than Jordan Bull's of Jordan, you know the not 4, not 5 team, the it's going to be easy team. That's the "right way to play" according to idiots, make everyone else a pawn on your stat padding crusade.


LEbron didn't lose a step he is just sabotaging his team, so that everyone falls in place, teammates and coach, and he can get back to stat padding.

[KBaller33]

Also LeBrons defense has been the worst its been since his younger days when he played no defense. This Cavs team doesn't play any defense either. With the Heat from 2010-2013 they were an elite defensive team because they were the most athletic team on the court at all times. This Celveland team is no where near that.

[STATUTORY]

I still refuse to believe that we are witnessing such a steep decline at the age of 29. I don't know what it is, but I'm sure he'll pick it up soon, even if we never see the consistency of 09-14 James again. The best part of his game right now is the 3 ball unbelievably.

What's really staggering is the effort he's putting at getting back on fastbreaks. I don't know if he's just trying to leak out so he can get one himself in case of a turnover, or he doesn't care, or he's too gassed to run back... but the Cavs are playing 4 on 5 a lot of the time. It has to start with him giving full effort. He is playing a lot of minutes to be fair, but I wonder if his fitness isn't where it should be.

If we are witnessing the 'decline', then I don't know what to say. I guess it was a privilege seeing what he can do in his peak and prime, but this early...?

not everyone age at the same rate. and Lebron is no Kobe. Look at lebron's facial features and body when he was 18, it is clear that he developed early probably went through puberty early. That means he will age and decline earlier too. it's biology

[Xoush]

The HGH withdrawal kicking in I guess.

[nathanjizzle]

I think lebrons physical maturing process is quicker than normal, which is why he was a man playing amongst boys in highschool. But the downside of that is a shorter prime and quicker decline. At this point i would guess that lebron at 30 years old is about 36.

[MellowYellow]

You guys must be blind, Lebron has been declining for the past couple of years now. Miami just had the talent and system to mask that fact well. It's not like he went from peak to past his prime over the summer.

[HOoopCityJones]

I think lebrons physical maturing process is quicker than normal, which is why he was a man playing amongst boys in highschool. But the downside of that is a shorter prime and quicker decline. At this point i would guess that lebron at 30 years old is about 36.

So Superteams aren't the only shortcuts to surpass Kobe?

[305Baller]

I cant believe you people overlook the fact that he's played in so many postseason games that he has already played a full career in many players lifespans.

He will be fine come postseason.

[K Xerxes]

not everyone age at the same rate. and Lebron is no Kobe. Look at lebron's facial features and body when he was 18, it is clear that he developed early probably went through puberty early. That means he will age and decline earlier too. it's biology

Yes, I am in the medical field so I do understand the process of ageing. You are correct, but you'd expect to see a less steep decline in terms of ability initially. Just watching him on the court this season - he looks like a shadow of his former self.

It is certainly possible that this is permanent, but I think it's fairly unlikely right now and we should account for just poor form/start of the season lack of fitness. Only thing is that he has performed well in a few games this season, so he could certainly up his consistency. The ability is still there.

I would have expected a steeper decline at around 32-33, but yes everyone is different. It's more of a letdown than anything.

[HOoopCityJones]

I cant believe you people overlook the fact that he's played in so many postseason games that he has already played a full career in many players lifespans.

He will be fine come postseason.

Gimme a break, he hasn't played half the Post Season ball Kobe and Duncan have an both those guys are approaching 40 fast. LBJ is either being lazy enough to Coast the season so his Teammates can carry the Team to the Playoffs, where he'll take over. He's hurt. Or the rumors about Steroid use was true and his body is having a hard time adjusting to his mere mortal abilities.

I refuse to believe Lebron just exited his prime 6 months from a great individual Finals performance.

[pauk]

Not the best 10 game stretch for him, its still great numbers but not so super great by his standards, anything less than a 30-10-10 average with 60% FG is a decline for Lebron i guess...... but because its only 10 (11?) games he can also balance out his FG% & everything with only a great game or two.... hopefully that happens so we dont have to see these threads

[Mr. Jabbar]

Not the best 10 game stretch for him, its still great numbers but not so super great by his standards, anything less than a 30-10-10 average with 60% FG is a decline for Lebron i guess...... but because its only 10 (11?) games he can also balance out his FG% & everything with only a great game or two.... hopefully that happens so we dont have to see these threads

:facepalm watch the games pauk...

[heyhey]

Not the best 10 game stretch for him, its still great numbers but not so super great by his standards, anything less than a 30-10-10 average with 60% FG is a decline for Lebron i guess...... but because its only 10 (11?) games he can also balance out his FG% & everything with only a great game or two.... hopefully that happens so we dont have to see these threads

clearly focused on the important things pauk

:facepalm

[MellowYellow]

Not the best 10 game stretch for him, its still great numbers but not so super great by his standards, anything less than a 30-10-10 average with 60% FG is a decline for Lebron i guess...... but because its only 10 (11?) games he can also balance out his FG% & everything with only a great game or two.... hopefully that happens so we dont have to see these threads
Mad....

Lebron is shooting 46% from the field, it's gonna take more than a couple good games for him to get anywhere near the %'s he was getting in Miami.

[HOoopCityJones]

Mad....

Lebron is shooting 46% from the field, it's gonna take more than a couple good games for him to get anywhere near the %'s he was getting in Miami.


Haven't you heard 46% is goat now for the Lebron stans.

[DJ Leon Smith]

The reasons.

1. the unavoidable aging proess.

2. He spent the entire offseason trying to hype up his brand "The King is coming back!". Does anyone think he put as much effort on his actual craft as he has done in the past? At this point it's 100% about his brand and milking money from the sheep.

3. He no longer has future hall of fame coach Erik Spoelstra holding his hand, giving him optimal offensive spacing and elite team defensive schemes.

4. going to emphasize on spacing and specifically on how Love is a worse fit than Bosh. It doesn't help that a lot of Clevelands other "contributers" cant shoot for shit. This thompson dude,waiters who absolutely sucks.
Kevin Love is better, but the biggest drawback is that you need to combine a rim protecting defensive behemoth with him at center. Those guys arn't too easy to find.

Bosh can do a much better job at half assing that role which lets him fit in at center and doesn't sacrifice as much defense, while still giving the offense elite spacing on the other end of the floor.

We are seeing time and time again that when LeBron doesn't get the spacing he ain't shit. You can't put Love at the 5 though without geting raped on defense.

Explain this.

https://vine.co/v/O1zlnEZ2pve

[Overdrive]

Well, he went on a diet to tone down his weight. So I guess he started to feel his body (aching). Instead of keeping his superior body and just slow down the game like Karl Malone did. He decided to lose weight by omitting carbs and proteins from his diet. So he lost weight by losing muscle basically. The same muscle that gave him speed and lift. Not only did he lose strength but speed in the process and that's why he sucks now - relatively speaking.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Not the best 10 game stretch for him, its still great numbers but not so super great by his standards, anything less than a 30-10-10 average with 60% FG is a decline for Lebron i guess...... but because its only 10 (11?) games he can also balance out his FG% & everything with only a great game or two.... hopefully that happens so we dont have to see these threads

LOL.

https://vine.co/v/O1zlnEZ2pve

[Nash]

I'm not gonna get into your second and third points, but your first point is reasonable, and your fourth point pretty much sums up why I think they'll be good enough to make it through the East, but will get murked into the ground by whichever team makes it out of the West.

San Antonio, Dallas, healthy OKC, possibly even Golden State, in-form LAC, Portland..these teams will absolutely massacre that Cleveland defense. Especially seeing what San Antonio did to Miami in the last finals, and how Dallas' offense looks now so early in the season..it would be a slaughter.

People keep likening this Cleveland situation to the early Big 3 Heat...it's not even remotely close. Those early Heat squads were still playing sound defense..it wasn't as refined as it'd get later on when they won the chips, but the roster was there, the system was developing, and the consistent effort was there to defend at a good to high level.

This Cavs team is fundamentally flawed top to bottom defensively. Love is abysmal defensively, it's pretty much a layup line for the opposition if you don't have an elite defensive anchor there..which they don't have. Varejao is solid, but solid doesn't compensate for Love, and it sure as hell isn't enough to develop a championship level defense. Lebron himself has slipped defensively, whether it's declining athleticism, disinterest, fatigue, etc. Thompson, Waiters, Irving, Miller, etc..just a recipe for disaster defensively.
I agree with most of what you said. With all the pieces Cavs got, what kind of realistic trades do you think could make them better?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Well, he went on a diet to tone down his weight. So I guess he started to feel his body (aching). Instead of keeping his superior body and just slow down the game like Karl Malone did. He decided to lose weight by omitting carbs and proteins from his diet. So he lost weight by losing muscle basically. The same muscle that gave him speed and lift. Not only did he lose strength but speed in the process and that's why he sucks now - relatively speaking.

He cut carbs, not protein. If you do a low carb diet correctly, you won't lose muscle mass (may have a harder time gaining new muscle, though). No way did he or any professional athlete cut protein below their maintenance level.

[tomtucker]

I cant believe you people overlook the fact that he's played in so many postseason games that he has already played a full career in many players lifespans.

He will be fine come postseason.

[B]what about all those 4th quarters where he took a break ?......... that

[Overdrive]

He cut carbs, not protein. If you do a low carb diet correctly, you won't lose muscle mass (may have a harder time gaining new muscle, though). No way did he or any professional athlete cut protein below their maintenance level.

Looked it up. It was no carbs no dairy products. Still my points stand he lost muscle I'm sure he didn't lose 20 pounds of fat.

[La Frescobaldi]

New drug rules announced; body weights plunge; athletes noticeably less athletic; threads about decline appear.

[tomtucker]

New drug rules announced; body weights plunge; athletes noticeably less athletic; threads about decline appear.

what new rules :confusedshrug:

[Doranku]

LOL.

https://vine.co/v/O1zlnEZ2pve

He was just admiring the scenery, man. Let's not act like this happens every game...

Wait...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2276373-lebron-james-didnt-look-happy-with-dion-waiters-shot-selection-vs-wizards

[305Baller]

[QUOTE=tomtucker][B]what about all those 4th quarters where he took a break ?......... that

[Fudge]

Lmfao @ pauk ITT

[Soundwave]

He turns 30 in like a few weeks and has a lot of mileage on his legs.

Some reduction in athletic ability is simply to be expected.

Though this year is nothing, you will see a more progressive decline as he turns 31/32.

[305Baller]

Gimme a break, he hasn't played half the Post Season ball Kobe and Duncan have an both those guys are approaching 40 fast. LBJ is either being lazy enough to Coast the season so his Teammates can carry the Team to the Playoffs, where he'll take over. He's hurt. Or the rumors about Steroid use was true and his body is having a hard time adjusting to his mere mortal abilities.

I refuse to believe Lebron just exited his prime 6 months from a great individual Finals performance.

Don't forget Kobe had a few years off due to breakdown and Duncan gets a lot of minutes off during the season.

[La Frescobaldi]

what new rules :confusedshrug:

hgh testing started this year. LOL at the delay

my cycling buddies (some of whom I've known 50 years and were very successful on the peloton in their day) think the nba is a hoot and bush league 30 years behind the times; which may be true but I love hoops.

[AnaheimLakers24]

father time. dude has two athletic boys who probably wear him out at home

[SexSymbol]

[QUOTE=tomtucker][B]what about all those 4th quarters where he took a break ?......... that

[J Shuttlesworth]

:roll: :roll: :roll: