Rank these shooting guards in overall talent

[Mass Debator]

Manu Ginobili
Reggie Miller
Jerry Stackhouse
Mitch Richmond
Joe Dumars
Michael Redd
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis
James Harden
Brandon Roy

[navy]

Define talent.

[Mass Debator]

Define talent.
Ability to score, pass, defend, rebound, and lead. Basically everything besides defining someone's career with team success and accolades or lack thereof.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Havent watched a few of these guys but Allen, Ginobili, and Miller come to mind at the top 3 in no order. Ellis and Roy are more athletic, and Harden is an excellent slasher but his D is just so putrid.

[SugarHill]

I just know Manu is at the top and Redd is at the bottom.

[Mass Debator]

I just know Manu is at the top and Redd is at the bottom.
Do you think Manu could have averaged 24 ppg on 45% in a 6 year span?

[Pointguard]

Manu Ginobili
Reggie Miller
Jerry Stackhouse
Mitch Richmond
Joe Dumars
Michael Redd
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis
James Harden
Brandon Roy

Brandon Roy - remember when he would do everything
Harden - can play PG and SF the two most demanding of talent positions
Ginobli - best passer, 2nd best defender, skilled penetrator
Mitch Richmond - could pass, rebound, drive, dribble, was big, strong, smart
Dumars - could be called on to do every guard duty well and lead
Stackhouse - hated his game but he did do a lot of different things on the court
Ray Allen - flirted with playing the point at one time.
Monta Ellis - seeing more dimensions of his game recently
Reggie Miller - could really run around a screen, now couldn't he!
Michael Redd - was a great scorer the first month of the season. A unique talent that just faded as the season progressed.

[Milbuck]

Manu. GOAT SG.

[Mass Debator]

...
Damn nice list. I like the Roy pick. Would your order still be roughly the same if I said to rank them by impact?

[Mass Debator]

Manu. GOAT SG.
Love his game especially his high risk high reward mentality. Super creative at everything that he did...but is he even considered better than the Spurs' very own Gervin?

[Dro]

Ginobili
Allen
Harden
Roy
Richmond
Ellis
Miller
Redd
Dumars
Stackhouse

[bizil]

Manu Ginobili
Reggie Miller
Jerry Stackhouse
Mitch Richmond
Joe Dumars
Michael Redd
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis
James Harden
Brandon Roy

To me the gold standard of perimeter guys are guys who are great scorers, great passers, very good-great rebounders for perimeter guys, and great defenders in one. And if they have the versatility to play PG, SG, and SF, that's the ultimate bonus. So looking at this list, Brandon Roy or Manu is the best all around talent. Harden is right there, but his defense leave something to be desired often.

In terms of who I think flat out is the best player, GOAT wise it's Ray Allen. In general, I think the best player of the bunch is Ray or Harden. But if he would have stayed healthy, I think Roy would have been the best.

[FKAri]

Pretty sure I'd have Mitch Richmond over Harden. I don't know how good of a playmaker Brandon Roy was but he's near the top. Ginobli did everything but could he do it in a more featured role consistently? He would be near the top tho. Ray Allen would also be near the top.

This is tough...

[bizil]

Pretty sure I'd have Mitch Richmond over Harden. I don't know how good of a playmaker Brandon Roy was but he's near the top. Ginobli did everything but could he do it in a more featured role consistently? He would be near the top tho. Ray Allen would also be near the top.

This is tough...

I agree! None of these guys are on that MJ-Kobe-West-Wade-TMac-Drexler kind of level at SG. So the OP came up with a great post. U can go a lot of ways in this equation. For example, I think Richmond has the best scoring skillset of all these guys on the list. He was a pure shooter and great slasher who was as strong as a bull posting up. Peak Stackhouse was a freakish athlete who had a very good scoring skillset. And from a two way standpoint, Dumars is arguably one of the top 6-7 SG's of all time. Other than MJ, Kobe, West, Wade, and Moncrief, his name HAS to come up soon in that regard.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Manu
Roy
Ray
Richmond
Harden
Reggie
Dumars
Redd
Stackhouse
Monta

[SamuraiSWISH]

I'm going to rank them as players, period. Because "talent" is vague, and subjective. Some of these guys on the list have more innate talent than others, while IMO not being as good of players or pieces conducive to winning basketball.

Brandon Roy (some potential unfulfilled in there)
Mitch Richmond (Underrated)
Ray Allen (Great)
Manu Ginobili (Overrated, but Good)
Joe Dumars (Amazing Defense)
Reggie Miller (Winner)
James Harden (No Defense or Midrange)
Michael Redd (No Defense or Midrange)
Jerry Stackhouse (Chucker)
Monta Ellis (Dumb)

[bizil]

I'm going to rank them as players, period. Because "talent" is vague, and subjective. Some of these guys on the list have more innate talent than others, while IMO not being as good of players or pieces conducive to winning basketball.

Brandon Roy (some potential unfulfilled in there)
Mitch Richmond (Underrated)
Ray Allen (Great)
Manu Ginobili (Overrated, but Good)
Joe Dumars (Amazing Defense)
Reggie Miller (Winner)
James Harden (No Defense or Midrange)
Michael Redd (No Defense or Midrange)
Jerry Stackhouse (Chucker)
Monta Ellis (Dumb)

Well said! I think if Roy could have had at least a 7 year T-Mac kind of run, people would have realized Roy's potential. People saw it with T-Mac, even though his prime got cut short. I'm confident the same would have applied to Roy. Once Wade and Kobe slowed down, I thought Roy would be the top SG in the world. Those three straight All Star Games he made prove it out.

And in terms of Mitch, i think he has one of the top 5-7 scoring skillsets of all time at SG. U got MJ, West, Kobe, T-Mac, and Gervin that standout to me in that realm. But Mitch is right there. He was a great slasher, postup player, and midrange shooter. But he was ALSO a pure shooter in general who was a tremendous 3 ball shooter. And to top it off, had very good defense and was a very good passer. Skill for skill, one of the best blends of fundamentals and physical ability ever to play. Beal reminds me of a young Mitch.

[Mass Debator]

Well said! I think if Roy could have had at least a 7 year T-Mac kind of run, people would have realized Roy's potential. People saw it with T-Mac, even though his prime got cut short. I'm confident the same would have applied to Roy. Once Wade and Kobe slowed down, I thought Roy would be the top SG in the world. Those three straight All Star Games he made prove it out.
I actually thought Eric Gordon was going to be one of the top SG with Roy. After posting 22.3 ppg and 4.4 apg in his 3rd year, thought he had it in him to make that next jump. :/

[La Frescobaldi]

Do you think Manu could have averaged 24 ppg on 45% in a 6 year span?

The dude's body would never allow it, too many hamstrings etc. unfortunately

[fsvr54]

Mitch mad underrated, top 3 player here and best pure scorer of the bunch.

[bizil]

I actually thought Eric Gordon was going to be one of the top SG with Roy. After posting 22.3 ppg and 4.4 apg in his 3rd year, thought he had it in him to make that next jump. :/

Yep I thought Gordon would be right up there too. The injury shit has certainly derailed his potential as well.

[Cone]

I'm going to rank them as players, period. Because "talent" is vague, and subjective. Some of these guys on the list have more innate talent than others, while IMO not being as good of players or pieces conducive to winning basketball.

Brandon Roy (some potential unfulfilled in there)
Mitch Richmond (Underrated)
Ray Allen (Great)
Manu Ginobili (Overrated, but Good)
Joe Dumars (Amazing Defense)
Reggie Miller (Winner)
James Harden (No Defense or Midrange)
Michael Redd (No Defense or Midrange)
Jerry Stackhouse (Chucker)
Monta Ellis (Dumb)

Ellis dumb? Have you watched him lately? Hell, I don't think he has ever been dumb.. he was once a chucker, but hes a beast in Dallas. Legit all-star caliber

[Mass Debator]

Mitch mad underrated, top 3 player here and best pure scorer of the bunch.
Agreed. Dude had like two seasons shooting 43% from downtown. That's mad elite. Post skills is too. His driving skills isn't though. Solid but because of that, I actually believe Harden is the best pure scorer out of the bunch. I see him having a great post up game in the near future. Just gotta cut down on some of those ill-advised 3s. That's just one aspect in basketball though and unfortunately, Harden is lacking in the effort department in various of aspects of the game.

[Mass Debator]

Ellis dumb? Have you watched him lately? Hell, I don't think he has ever been dumb.. he was once a chucker, but hes a beast in Dallas. Legit all-star caliber
Yeah and that's why he's on the list of all these great shooting guards. He's often overlooked. Monta has wisen up over the years and is a star role player. His drive and kick game has always landed him good assists numbers, but now he's actually playing within a team concept. Glad to see him succeeding

But damn, still can't believe he shot 53% one year on pretty good volume.

[Cone]

Yeah and that's why he's on the list of all these great shooting guards. He's often overlooked. Monta has wisen up over the years and is a star role player. His drive and kick game has always landed him good assists numbers, but now he's actually playing within a team concept. Glad to see him succeeding

But damn, still can't believe he shot 53% one year on pretty good volume.

Yup, watching him in that spurs series last year made me a fan of his. He took over a couple of 4th quarters against the best team in the league, and willed his team when Dirk was off. That was my favorite series in the playoffs outside of that game 7.

Wow, 20ppg on 53%. Never knew he did that. He only took 0.6 3PA. I guess he never settled for jumpers then.

I'd like to see him make the all-star game this year. Might be near impossible with the great guards in the West but if the Mavs are a top 3-4 seed and he keeps up his 20/5 numbers, then this may very well be the year.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Well said! I think if Roy could have had at least a 7 year T-Mac kind of run, people would have realized Roy's potential. People saw it with T-Mac, even though his prime got cut short. I'm confident the same would have applied to Roy. Once Wade and Kobe slowed down, I thought Roy would be the top SG in the world. Those three straight All Star Games he made prove it out.

And in terms of Mitch, i think he has one of the top 5-7 scoring skillsets of all time at SG. U got MJ, West, Kobe, T-Mac, and Gervin that standout to me in that realm. But Mitch is right there. He was a great slasher, postup player, and midrange shooter. But he was ALSO a pure shooter in general who was a tremendous 3 ball shooter. And to top it off, had very good defense and was a very good passer. Skill for skill, one of the best blends of fundamentals and physical ability ever to play. Beal reminds me of a young Mitch.

Roy was good and I wish he never got hurt, but it's not like he was putting up prime T-Mac numbers and then got a career ending injury.

He was averaging 22/5/5 in his age 24 season when he played 78 games. Those are good stats but it's not like he was some 18 year old kid. T-Mac put up 32/6/5 on not much worse percentages at 23.

Again, not that Roy was bad, but prime T-Mac, (or Wade, or Kobe obviously) was on a completely different level. Hell, I very much doubt that he would have ever put up a season offensively as good as Harden did last year. Granted his defense may have been better.

I think Roy's prime would've been close to Harden, just above somebody like Demar Derozan.

[bizil]

Roy was good and I wish he never got hurt, but it's not like he was putting up prime T-Mac numbers and then got a career ending injury.

He was averaging 22/5/5 in his age 24 season when he played 78 games. Those are good stats but it's not like he was some 18 year old kid. T-Mac put up 32/6/5 on not much worse percentages at 23.

Again, not that Roy was bad, but prime T-Mac, (or Wade, or Kobe obviously) was on a completely different level. Hell, I very much doubt that he would have ever put up a season offensively as good as Harden did last year. Granted his defense may have been better.

I think Roy's prime would've been close to Harden, just above somebody like Demar Derozan.

When I said a T-Mac kind of 7 year run, I meant Roy having 7 great seasons where he's among the top 2-3 SG's in the world. I didn't mean him putting up T-Mac numbers for seven years. I also agree T-Mac was better. But Roy NEVER REACHED his peak either. He had a very short injury riddled career.

Roy would have got better than what we actually saw. In T-Mac's case, u can make the argument we saw him hit his ceiling. But THE KEY was T-Mac's total prime got cut short. So he didn't get to enjoy than long prime guys like Kobe, MJ, West, etc. had.

[Mass Debator]

Roy looked like a 24/6/5 peak player which is a notch below Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc...which is still very great! He was clutch as fck with sneaky athleticism like Lillard. He was just as skilled, jumps just as high, was quicker than them besides maybe 04-06 Wade, and had that high bball IQ, but what separated him from the SG group mentioned is an elite first step and length. If he had like a 6'10 wingspan, he'd be dunking/finishing more and be more intimidating on defense.

[Dro]

Roy looked like a 24/6/5 peak player which is a notch below Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc...which is still very great! He was clutch as fck with sneaky athleticism like Lillard. He was just as skilled, jumps just as high, was quicker than them besides maybe 04-06 Wade, and had that high bball IQ, but what separated him from the SG group mentioned is an elite first step and length. If he had like a 6'10 wingspan, he'd be dunking/finishing more and be more intimidating on defense.
Roy was super skilled......I always felt like he could average more points if he wanted to but he was such a team player.....underrated playmaker, he could run an offense......

[Bimbo Coles]

Manu
Mitch Richmond
Joe Dumars
Ray Allen
Reggie Miller
Brandon Roy
James Harden
Michael Redd
Jerry Stackhouse
Monta Ellis